Military recruiters shouldn't have so much access to kids

[thedrifter]

Military recruiters shouldn't have so much access to kids
Star-Gazette - Jun 09

With the ever-increasing war dead and wounded in Iraq, I was glad to hear that local peace activists wish to talk about military recruiters in our schools. While I realize that the military offers opportunities for students who may not be otherwise college-bound, it is my personal opinion that there needs to be more balance and integrity to the process by which recruiters gain access to and influence over our children.

It has been my personal experience that against my often expressed and written objections, the school provided a sheltered environment for the recruiter to plan my son's future with him, without my involvement or oversight. Requests in writing that my child's information not be shared with the military did not deter them. Even though I expressed to our principal, school counselor and the recruiter that a career in the Marines was not an acceptable plan, my son was given the ASFAB and still met regularly with the recruiter at school.

Military recruiters are visibly present in schools more prominently than any job or college recruiters. While students are sold on the many different and educational opportunities available through the military, they are not completely made aware of the realities of their eight-year obligation. Some students have told me they likely won't be deployed or likely won't have to fight because of their chosen job path.

Young people who are in the unfortunate position of needing to support themselves independently upon high school graduation have told me that the military is their only viable option.

PAT BREUX

Elmira

Ellie

[marinemom]

"It has been my personal experience that against my often expressed and written objections, the school provided a sheltered environment for the recruiter to plan my son's future with him, without my involvement or oversight. Requests in writing that my child's information not be shared with the military did not deter them. Even though I expressed to our principal, school counselor and the recruiter that a career in the Marines was not an acceptable plan, my son was given the ASFAB and still met regularly with the recruiter at school."


Okay lady, as a former school board member, I am going to ask you a question - do you like the programs that get funded for the students in your district by the US Department of ducation dollars?

Do you like the fact that handicapped - either physically or scholastically - students have the resources to achieve success in school? And that they are able to physically access school buildings and sites?

Do you like the fact the the talented and gifted students in your district also have the advanced tools that they need and want in the school?

Do you like the fact that resources are available for anti-alcohol, substance abuse and anti-violence behavior, from kindergarten to 12th grade?

If so, then you thank the Department of Education for the federal dollars that get to your district - even if that money is routed through the state department of education.

These dollars are available to all local school districts - regardless of their location, ethnic make-up, or location, from the high dolalrs of Greenwich and Beverly Hills to the inner cities, reservations and other low income areas.

And for that assistance, about 15 years ago, there was a condition put to the receipt of these dollars: military recruiters have open access to all public high schools. Do not let them have access - there go your dollars.

Think about it - who do you want to deprive?

Oh, and by the way - it is ASVAB, not ASFAB. And you might be surprised how many school districts across the country, in every state, use that test in the early middle school years to determine student strength, weakness and career appitudes.

And, if your kid took the test in English - thank the US military.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Typical.

I have no problem with them (any school) booting the military out of their 'august halls'. No problem at all. Just so long as they give up every-single-federal-tax-dollar at the same time. And every single federal 'aid' program.

And, while they are at it, the local school boards don't need to have gummint office space in the courthouse, or the local office bldg, if it is subsidized by federal tax money, either.

This is typical of this crowd, the ability to talk out of both sides of their mouth at the same time.

[jetdawgg]

Military recruiters are visibly present in schools more prominently than any job or college recruiters. While students are sold on the many different and educational opportunities available through the military, they are not completely made aware of the realities of their eight-year obligation. Some students have told me they likely won't be deployed or likely won't have to fight because of their chosen job path.

How about getting equal time to the students from these other entities? I think that she is asking about that.

Also if the students are being mislead by the recruiters then is that a scaleable policy?

[JinxJr]

When I was a Recruiter, schools had the option of restricting access and some did but all of them administered the ASVAB and all of the recruiters got copies of that. The schools that didn't let the recruiters in used the ASVAB precisely the way MARINEMOM explained...to identify the students' strengths and weaknesses. If a recruiter got to spend time with a student in the school to discuss career options it was because the STUDENT wanted to during a time the STUDENT could make available (during Study Hall, homeroom, etc.).
This Mom probably found out that her little darling had seen a Recruiter and, when she got mad he led her down the garden path, telling her what she wanted to hear.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Who, exactly, says they are being 'mislead', other than the usual left wing groups that ALWAYS say that?

"Equal Time"??? If anything, that should be enforced for the military moreso than it is now.

[jetdawgg]

SGT Lep I am only going by the content in the message. So it has to be the writer.

If the recruiters are being misleading to the students, then how scaleable a model is that? More and more will pull away from their sons and daughters joining the Military.

Hey, some of the schools I went to in NYC were so tough, the recruiters, the businesses nor the police would show up:D

[Sgt Leprechaun]

LOL.

I agree, BTW, that recruiters shouldn't be lying to the kids or telling them nonsense ("Sure, we can station you less than 10 miles from here" "You won't be going to Iraq, I promise!" ect ect). But, I also believe that its an extremely tiny fraction of recruiters doing that.

The whole shouldn't be painted with the same broad brush, due to the misconduct of a couple.

[jetdawgg]

True that. People need to understand that joining the Marines means you may have to issue American policy with your life on the line.

I certainly understood that when I joined and my recruiters did not lie about that.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Nor did mine. Of course, the 'breed' joining the Marines is a different animal entirely, who actually WANT to go and do that!

[10thzodiac]

For your amusement I submit the following by Northwestern senior, Henry M. Bowles III:
But there’s a more permanent reason to keep the military away from our brightest students. Young males are easily manipulated during the period of their lives when they exist outside the female domain, after the mother and before the wife. They are above all eager to demonstrate masculinity. With its promises of order, fraternity and cohesion, the military taps into this angst. A real tragedy occurs when a young man, susceptible to the military’s appeal and nonetheless intelligent and creative, signs up to become cannon fodder. He’ll probably leave the military alive, but he’ll have been irreversibly molded, less inclined to dissent. Less intelligent people are better equipped for most military positions, and have far less to lose.

[jetdawgg]

Nor did mine. Of course, the 'breed' joining the Marines is a different animal entirely, who actually WANT to go and do that!

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/jetdawgg/post_usmc_marines-want-you_ww1.jpg

[jetdawgg]

Nor did mine. Of course, the 'breed' joining the Marines is a different animal entirely, who actually WANT to go and do that!

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/jetdawgg/post_usmc_marines-want-you_ww1.jpg

[jetdawgg]

For your amusement I submit the following by Northwestern senior, Henry M. Bowles III:
But there’s a more permanent reason to keep the military away from our brightest students. Young males are easily manipulated during the period of their lives when they exist outside the female domain, after the mother and before the wife. They are above all eager to demonstrate masculinity. With its promises of order, fraternity and cohesion, the military taps into this angst. A real tragedy occurs when a young man, susceptible to the military’s appeal and nonetheless intelligent and creative, signs up to become cannon fodder. He’ll probably leave the military alive, but he’ll have been irreversibly molded, less inclined to dissent. Less intelligent people are better equipped for most military positions, and have far less to lose.




Another name for the Marines:D

[003XXMarineDAD]

Less intelligent people are better equipped for most military positions, and have far less to lose.


It sounds like John FN Kerry and the current Dnc. Inc. doing this quote.
Here again is a perfect example of the elite in academia not useing the brain.
If this was true about the military they failed on both Jet and 10th because they are full of dissent
:D :D

[drumcorpssnare]

There was a Pvt. in my platoon at PI, whose recruiter told him he could attend "General School" and become a Brigadier General! This poor private fell for it hook, line, and sinker! The Drill Instructor he told this to, laughed his butt off, in front of the whole platoon!
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[jetdawgg]

It sounds like John FN Kerry and the current Dnc. Inc. doing this quote.
Here again is a perfect example of the elite in academia not useing the brain.
If this was true about the military they failed on both Jet and 10th because they are full of dissent
:D :D

:D

[Cash2053]

It is the ASVAB, not the ASFAB Drifter. I do not see how you could spend 20 years in the Marine Corps and have the views you do. As you can see, there are not many people who agree with you on this one. I suggest you go to a Hillary Clinton forum or something. The military is not anyones only option in today's society. Take a look at todays Marine Corps, there are many marines who have a Masters Degree. Im sure the military is not their only option. Your son seems interested in joining the military, support him and his decisions. I do not have kids yet so who knows, I may feel the same way you do when the day comes. I do not think I will though.

[thedrifter]

It is the ASVAB, not the ASFAB Drifter. I do not see how you could spend 20 years in the Marine Corps and have the views you do. As you can see, there are not many people who agree with you on this one. I suggest you go to a Hillary Clinton forum or something. The military is not anyones only option in today's society. Take a look at todays Marine Corps, there are many marines who have a Masters Degree. Im sure the military is not their only option. Your son seems interested in joining the military, support him and his decisions. I do not have kids yet so who knows, I may feel the same way you do when the day comes. I do not think I will though.

If YOU learned to read it was an article written by someone else that was placed in....;)

I just place in so Don't shoot the messenger;)

Ellie

[Cash2053]

Sorry. I missed that small detail. I apologize.

[thedrifter]

;) :thumbup:

Ellie

[10thzodiac]

It sounds like John FN Kerry and the current Dnc. Inc. doing this quote.
Here again is a perfect example of the elite in academia not useing the brain.
If this was true about the military they failed on both Jet and 10th because they are full of dissent
:D :D

Don't forget Generals Butler, Shoup and Zinni !

I'd say we're in pretty good company; a badge of honor.

003XXMarineDad, the first thing you learn in the Marines is, "Stay away from stupid people, they'll get you killed" !

But you weren't in the Marines, I was...

[Sgt Leprechaun]

And yet..you still choose to associate with...............

Never mind. :)

That one, old buddy, was just TOO easy! LOL

[10thzodiac]

Stockholm Syndrome :D

[Sgt Leprechaun]

To hell with em. Pull the money and be done with it.

10 freakin MILLION dollars???

They don't want to play, fine. I have no problem with that. Yank the money and tell them to be on their way.



San Francisco Chronicle
June 12, 2007
Pg. B1

School, Military Skirmish Over Data On Students

By Carolyn Jones, Chronicle Staff Writer

Berkeley High remains the only high school in the nation that has failed to comply with the military's request for students' data, a Department of Defense spokesman said.

A month ago, the school -- under pressure from the government to release the data or lose funding -- changed its policy that blocked the release of students' personal information. The new policy allows students and parents who do not wish to be contacted by military recruiters to opt out by signing a form.

But the school did not immediately release the data to the government. Instead, a group of parents have been on a campaign to ask each and every student whether they want to opt out.

Thus far, 90 percent of the students at Berkeley High have refused to have their names released to miliary recruiters.

Berkeley High risked losing $10 million in federal funding, and possibly faced legal action, if it did not change its policy regarding military recruitment.

The controversy began in 2001, when the federal No Child Left Behind law passed. It requires school districts to hand over personal contact information for all juniors and seniors to military recruiters. The law also allows students to opt out.

The Berkeley Unified School District board has a strict policy against releasing students' personal information. So previously, instead of adopting an opt out policy, it used an "opt in" procedure in which students and parents could sign a form only if they wanted their information released to the military.

The result was that only about two dozen students a year opted in. One year only 16 did, said district spokesman Mark Coplan.

The military was not thrilled with the results and began pressuring district and school administrators to increase the numbers.

Maj. Stewart Upton, Department of Defense spokesman, said that recruiters have a tough time finding students because of "reduced interest" among young people and the strict eligibility requirements.

"Today's military recruiters must find and recruit from among the best and brightest of America's youth in a very challenging market," Upton wrote in an e-mail. "One vital tool that our recruiters rely on to help them succeed is access to high schools, in order to provide students with the opportunity to learn about the option of military service."

Local military recruiters complained, and progressively higher-ranking officers all the way up to a general came to Berkeley and met with Superintendent Michele Lawrence to resolve the matter.

Things escalated in May, when "the general got a call from the undersecretary of Defense, who made it clear in no uncertain terms that Berkeley was the last high school in the nation that has not complied and they would move forward with legal action," Coplan said. After that, Defense Secretary Robert Gates wrote Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger asking for something to be done.

The school held several assemblies a month ago, explaining why the district was changing its policy and advising students to sign the forms immediately -- whether they wanted to opt in or opt out.

Of the school's 1,500 juniors and seniors, 1,350 signed opt out forms prohibiting the district from turning over their data. The remaining 150 either have not responded or signed consent forms allowing the district to turn over their names, address and phone numbers to the military.

Parent volunteers are contacting the 150 to determine their intentions. The results won't be available until next week, after school is out for the summer.

"Not a lot of people know what's going on with the war," said Krystal Elebiary, a junior who joined with student Daniel Sandoval to write a letter and collect about 250 student signatures proclaiming, "We will not be used as tools for an unjust and imperialist war."

At a news conference Monday, the pair criticized the Bush administration for forcing Berkeley's compliance by threatening to withhold education funding from the school.

[drumcorpssnare]

Well, let's see...the whiney libs don't want recruiters talking to high school and college students. Maybe the recruiters need to start hittin' on the old folks homes.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[jetdawgg]

Well, let's see...the whiney libs don't want recruiters talking to high school and college students. Maybe the recruiters need to start hittin' on the old folks homes.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

"We'll sign up sonny"

http://img2.travelblog.org/Photos/19952/117213/t/800398-Old-folks-0.jpg