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gwladgarwr
05-30-07, 01:35 PM
Anyone interested in how I edited the definition of 'Marine' in Wikipedia?

Here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine#Military_and_related_uses

Here's the text:

Marine or Marines may refer to:

Marine (ocean), a general term for things relating to the sea or ocean
Contents [hide]
1 Military and related uses
2 Places
3 Other uses
4 See also


[edit] Military and related uses
Marine (military) a warrior (not a 'soldier') serving aboard a ship and/or whose primary function is to assault the land from the sea in amphibious warfare; not to be confused with 'soldier' which pertains to warriors in a (land) army (i.e., a Marine is not a soldier, and a soldier is not a Marine; one is not interchangeable with the other, and 'soldier' is not synonomous with 'Marine'.)

In contradistinction to members of other military service branches, such as an army, navy, or air force, the name 'marine' is capitalized as 'Marine' in the United States Marine Corps as it is considered a title and proper noun for an individual serving in the Marine Corps. Names/titles of members of other military branches in the United States military - soldier, sailor/seaman, airman, guardsman - are neither routinely nor traditionally capitalized.

When left uncapitalized, 'marine' is a general term (adjective) pertaining to things relating to the sea (see above), or, a member of another country's Marine forces. When capitalized, 'Marine' can be an adjective ("a Marine tradition") or a noun ("two Marines have just received the Medal of Honor").


The military rank of "Marine"
Royal Marines, a branch of the UK military
United States Marine Corps, a branch of the U.S. military; sister service of the United States Navy, each independently serving under the Department of the Navy. The United States Marine Corps, despite arguments to the contrary, is not part of the U.S. Navy nor is it subservient to it.

Now anyone googling for 'Marine' all over the world will now read my superior rendition of the definition of 'Marine'. I just like to do my part now and then.;)

Sgt gw

Ed Palmer
05-30-07, 02:47 PM
United States Marine Corps, a branch of the U.S. military; sister service of the United States Navy, each independently serving under the Department of the Navy. The United States Marine Corps, despite arguments to the contrary, is not part of the U.S. Navy nor is it subservient to it.


EXCEPTION
It is the MEN,s Department of the Navy

10thzodiac
05-30-07, 06:48 PM
SOLDIERS OF THE SEA


http://www.angelfire.com/ca/dickg/soldiers.jpg







<HR><CENTER>ARE MARINES SOLDIERS?</CENTER><CENTER></CENTER>






<CENTER>http://www.angelfire.com/ca/dickg/oldembtrans.gif</CENTER>
DON'T YOU DARE CALL ME A SOLDIER!!!
Marines' sites and bulletin boards on the Internet are nothing short of amazing regarding what many do not know about Marine Corps history and traditions. There are numerous cases where Marines--some of them even senior enlisted Marines and officers--post and respond to downright erroneous information demonstrating a definite lack of knowledge on various topics of Marine Corps interest.

Perhaps, some independent study would be in order--better start at the top.

One random example, among many I have noticed, are several items lately where Marines are lambasting someone or other on the subject of one's having dared to refer to a Marine, or Marines, using the term "soldier."

With righteous indignation they scream that they are Marines, not soldiers, and they decry those who call them such! And rightfully so, in some cases, where the media or an individual, whatever, is using that term within an inappropriate context.

Of course, they (both the writer and the Marine) are acting out of their own lack of knowlege. The user of the term "soldier" is not aware that he should generally refer to all Marines as "Marines"; and the Marine is very likely ignorant of the fact that the word "soldier" is also correct, in some cases.

Members of our sister-service, for example, the U.S. Army, are soldiers, that is their name, but Marines are not soldiers in that sense at all. I am referring to Marines as soldiers in a much broader, higher sense, as a class of soldier that goes to the root of what a Marine is and does.

Reminds me of an oft-times repeated story of a U.S. Army major visiting the wounded in a WWI French hospital in 1918. As the story goes, the major asked a young soldier if he was indeed an American. "No sir," he replied, "I'm a Marine." (Ref US Marine Corps In World war I 1917-1918, Osprey, by Henry/Pavlovic, 1999) Such it is that Marines have always exemplified the inherent pride in their identity as a member of the MarineCorps.

But, many Marines seem to be unaware of the fact that the Marine Corps itself, as well as individual Marines, has long referred with pride to themselves as soldiers. To be sure, we are, each of us, a United States Marine, that is our TITLE, earned and claimed by us all as the capstone of that which we are. But somewhere within that coveted title lies the soldier referred to in the following examples.

One dictionary defines the word Marine as, an infantry soldier associated with a navy. No doubt there are many references to the Royal Marines as soldiers back through history. But we need not go back that far. Our own U.S. Marine Corps has a long listing of examples supporting the notion of Marines as soldiers.

A U.S. Marine Corps Recruiting Service poster, dated May 1866, announces that it is seeking MEN for its ranks; it then goes on to refer to such recruits as SOLDIERS no less than six times, and not once using the word Marine or Marines! (Ref the book, The Marines, by Simmons/Moskin, Marine Corps Heritage Foundation, 1998)

And there is the USMC Recruiting Poster of more recent vintage, shown at the top of this page. And, in the book, Marine Corps Book of Lists, by Nofi, Combined Publishing, 1997, the following.
"The Marines are both soldiers and sailors, a part of the sea services." (Page 154)

"Some Marine Wisdom on Soldiering" 'To be a sergeant, you have to show your stuff. I'd rather be an outstanding sergeant than just another officer," -GySgt Dan Daly (Page 159)

"In 1928 the period of the training was reduced to seven weeks, divided into two phases. The first phase, lasting three weeks, included the basic instruction necessary to convert civilians into soldiers, plus an innovation. This was an interview of each recruit by a selection clerk, who recorded the recruit's qualifications of education and experience. In embryo form, this procedure anticipated the specialty classification which was later to become indispensable as the complexity of paperwork increased and the material of war became even more technical and complicated. The four-week second phase was spent on the rifle range."

Ref Marine Corps Historical Reference Series No. 8, A Brief History of MCRD, Parris Island, SC, 1891-1962 http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/usmchist/parris.txt
"Soldiers trained in the ways of the sea," -CMC, BGen Benjamin H. Fuller, c. 1934 (Page 181)

"A Dozen Nicknames For Marines" 2. "The Soldiers of the Sea, a traditional term for Marines dating back at least to the seventeenth century." (Page 180)

"The finest soldier any captain could wish to have," said of Dan Daly by BGen W.P. Upshur (Page 182)

The book, "Soldiers of the Sea: The U.S. Marine Corps," by Col Robert D. Heinl USMC (Ret.), Annapolis, 1962

The play, (and later, two films) "What Price Glory," by Andersen/Shillings, 1926, has numerous references to Marines as soldiers.

"He turned down the gold bars of a second lieutenant. 'I'm a plain soldier,' he said, 'and I want to stay one.'"
-GySgt John Basilone (Ref John Basilone --Italian-American Hero www.cimorelli.com/pie/heroes/basilone.htm (http://www.cimorelli.com/pie/heroes/basilone.htm))
Chapter XX, page 69,The United States Marine Corps in the World War, by Major Edwin N. McClellan, USMC,1920, Historical Branch, HQMC, Wash, DC

"In recent years the Marine Corps has devoted a great deal of time and energy to rifle practice, believing that one of the first requirements of a soldier is to know how to shoot...."

And, finally, the more recent (2001) book,"Chesty The Story of Lieutenant General Lewis B. Puller, USMC," by Jon T. Hoffman, LtCol USMCR, in which he named Chapter 1, "Making a Man and a Soldier" Genesis of a Marine.

And many more references can be found, but suffice to say, for the purpose of my little spiel here, that these few examples should establish that the use of "soldier" was long commonly in use in the Corps.

And so is the use of the term "soldier" valid? Yes, I think all of the above has shown that it is, but please consider this information within the context which I have presented it. At the same time, however, I agree that the use of that term has generally fallen out of use, but not altogether. It may be that its decline began at the end of WW II when the Marine Corps was fighting for it's continued existence when Congress, and the US Army, was seeking to severly cut back the size of the Corps and/or eliminate it altogether.

Marines are also very critical of Marines, and others, who use terms that were in use before their own time, or perhaps terms they never really understood in the first place, like ex-Marine, preferring "former Marine" in its place. In some cases, they even now consider certain terms to have been derogatory in nature, although not the case to begin with. These things come and go; Semper Fidelis was shortened to "Semper Fi" by WW II Marines--and it's meaning even replaced at that time. Many of today's Marines resent some of these terms mainly because they have little knowledge of the finer points of our own history, heritage and traditions, falling back onto whatever they now perceive to have been the truth of their Old Corps. Their present explanations, opinions and beliefs regarding many of these things are invalid. For those with the mind for it, there is much in the way of information on these topics on the Internet, books, etc. It's out there if anybody wishes to take the trouble to research and find it!

The U. S. Marine Corps has a long and glorious history. There is no need to be defensive or "touchy" when occasionally being referred to as a soldier, even when the person speaking is not totally aware of all involved in the fact he is alluding to.
Rather, be yourself informed of what is so and what isn't, through your own research and studies. Nor is it of any benefit to deride those of other services, as is a common practice-- doing so merely reveals your own ignorance, and it belittles our Corps. As one old recruiting poster states, "Be a Marine!"