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jetdawgg
05-30-07, 12:50 PM
Exit From Iraq Should Be Through Iran
Linking forces with Iran could minimize the costs of withdrawal from Iraq



William E. Odom
YaleGlobal, 29 May 2007


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=320 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD rowSpan=4>http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/images/clearPoint.gif</TD><TD height=3></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.image?id=9224</TD></TR><TR><TD class=caption vAlign=top align=left>Wrong direction: A US war flotilla enters the Persian Gulf to pressure Iran, but diplomacy may be more effective to bring balance to the Middle East</TD></TR><TR><TD height=3></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
WASHINGTON: Increasingly bogged down in the sands of Iraq, the US thrashes about looking for an honorable exit. Restoring cooperation between Washington and Tehran is the single most important step that could be taken to rescue the US from its predicament in Iraq. Understanding why requires some historical reflection.

Since the mid-1950s, US policy in the Middle East and Persian Gulf region was implicitly based on three pillars – Israel, Iran and Saudi Arabia. As the British withdrew, Washington established nervous but lasting ties with Saudi Arabia. At the same time, the US built strong relations with the shah of Iran. After 1948, when it recognized the new state of Israel, the US slowly became a guarantor of that new state's survival. London's role in the entire region became marginal, especially after the Suez crisis in 1956, when President Dwight Eisenhower abruptly stopped the joint British-Israeli military operation to seize the Suez Canal.


Thus by preventing any of the three camps from overrunning the other, the US provided regional stability.

Whether American leaders employed this strategy by design or by trial and error is arguable. At the time, they were more concerned with the Soviet challenge, trying to organize the so-called "northern tier," i.e., with Turkey, Iran and Pakistan, as a barrier to Soviet influence. They probably did not foresee they had undertaken an equally demanding task of sublimating two major intra-regional quarrels, virtually irresolvable ones.


Although the Arab-Israel quarrel is well known, the Persian-Arab quarrel is poorly understood. Iran has long made claims on territories on the Arab side of the Gulf and especially with Iraq over the Shatt-al-Arab waterway at the mouth of the Tigris River. The Sunni-Shiite religious fissure reinforces Persian-Arab animosities, but no less important is the old sense of cultural superiority among the Iranians toward the Arabs.


By keeping strong diplomatic ties in all three camps, the US maintained regional stability with limited military power.

Whether American leaders employed this strategy by design or by trial and error is arguable. At the time, they were more concerned with the Soviet challenge, trying to organize the so-called "northern tier," i.e., with Turkey, Iran and Pakistan, as a barrier to Soviet influence. They probably did not foresee they had undertaken an equally demanding task of sublimating two major intra-regional quarrels, virtually irresolvable ones.


Although the Arab-Israel quarrel is well known, the Persian-Arab quarrel is poorly understood. Iran has long made claims on territories on the Arab side of the Gulf and especially with Iraq over the Shatt-al-Arab waterway at the mouth of the Tigris River. The Sunni-Shiite religious fissure reinforces Persian-Arab animosities, but no less important is the old sense of cultural superiority among the Iranians toward the Arabs.


By keeping strong diplomatic ties in all three camps, the US maintained regional stability with limited military power.

Meetings just started between US and Iranian envoys could reestablish the basis for regional stability that existed until 1979 and may be the best hope for containing the chaos that the US invasion of Iraq is unleashing. Unless the US convinces Iran to play a cooperative role, the conflict will spread. Indeed, fear of sectarian violence spreading is why the Saudi leadership, usually supportive of Washington, recently called the US occupation of Iraq illegal.


Thus the US footing in the Arab camp has been eroding. If that continues, the cost in increased US military power to maintain Israel’s ultimate security will soon be beyond US means. A rapprochement with Iran, therefore, is the key to restoring regional stability as the US withdraws from Iraq.


Can it be reached? Yes, if the US is willing to pay the price of dropping its "all sticks" policy for stopping Iran’s nuclear-weapons program. Put plainly, the US has two choices: It can have an Iran with nuclear weapons that refuses to cooperate on many shared interests. Or it can have an Iran with nuclear weapons that is willing to cooperate.


Tehran has as much interest in stability in both Iraq and Afghanistan as does Washington. Both oppose Al Qaeda. Iran needs US oil-production technology. Greater Iranian oil and gas production benefits the US. Iran's ties with Russia are without historical precedent and strained. The US could offer more and better technologies than Russia provides Iran. Iran's record for spreading radical Islamic political movements is more limited than is generally realized. In fact, beyond Hezbollah in Lebanon, and a few terrorist groups trained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps and directed toward Israel and Iranian émigrés in Europe, it has behaved conservatively, especially in Central Asia and the Muslim parts of the Caucasus.


Iran was hostile to the Taliban in Afghanistan. And it does not like the radical brands of Islam that Pakistan sponsors with Arab money in Afghanistan and Central Asia.


Iran realizes that although its influence in Iraq has increased immensely, it faces limits. Once US forces leave Iraq, even Shiite Iraqis will view Persians with suspicion. Moreover, Iran – like Turkey, Iraq and Syria – does not want an independent Kurdish state. US cooperation will be required to prevent that.

Only nuclear weapons and Hezbollah remain obstacles to US-Iranian tacit cooperation. And Iran will eventually acquire nuclear weapons if it is determined to do so, although not in less than a decade. The nation is less likely to go all the way to exploding a nuclear device if it has good ties with Washington than if it does not. Improved relations with the US will inexorably reduce Iranian hostile policies toward Israel.


Iran can’t help but observe the examples that the US has set with India's and Pakistan's nuclear-weapons programs. After opposing both for years, Washington essentially embraced both countries once they acquired nuclear weapons. The lesson for both Iran and North Korea is simple: acquire nuclear weapons and the US will not only stop threatening "regime change," but will also seek good relations.


Effectively the US has demolished the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Iran might settle for a security guarantee against an Israeli nuclear strike, but its fears of Pakistani nuclear capability are probably more acute – especially as Al Qaeda, hiding in Pakistan, is dedicated to the destruction of Iran's Shiite-controlled regime and openly calls on the US to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities.


Once this is understood, the makings of a deal are straightforward. The matter of Israel and Hezbollah can probably be sublimated if Washington preemptively drops the nuclear issue, along with its threat to change the regime in Iran.


The old "double-straddle" strategy may once more be feasible, and most parties in the region will be the beneficiaries, allowing the US to begin the long road back to restoring its credibility as a regional balancer. The US has no better way out of the cul-de-sac in Iraq. And even then, the US needs European and Asian allies to help.

Lieutenant General William E. Odom (Retired), US Army, is a senior fellow with the Hudson Institute and a professor at Yale University. He was director of the National Security Agency from 1985 to 1988, and his most recent book, “America’s Inadvertent Empire,” co-authored with Robert Dujarric, was published in 2004 by Yale University Press.


http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=9223

This sounds very intelligent.

drumcorpssnare
05-30-07, 02:03 PM
I don't understand why America would be interested in dialouge with a country that clearly cannot be trusted. They continue with their nuclear program, in spite of the fact that the rest of the free world has asked them to cease and desist in these efforts. Their leadership is in total denial regarding the Holocost of WW II, and they have stated publicly, they wish to see an end to the Jewish people.
At one time, we were engaged in a diplomatic dialouge with Japan. That ceased on Sunday morning, December 7th, 1941.
Will we ever learn from our past history?
Iran is praying to Allah, for all they're worth, that America will pull out of Iraq before the Iraqi people are able to secure their own country. They are circling like wolves...salivating...just waiting to fill the 'power vacuum', when we leave.
Wait and see...

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

MGySgtSki
05-30-07, 02:38 PM
I agree with the headline, just not the details. We need to go through Iran alright.....with a LOT of hate and discontent.

S/F

killerinstinct
05-30-07, 03:50 PM
the only thing wrong about this war is we didnt let saddam finish gassing the iranians before we took over.

greensideout
05-30-07, 05:03 PM
the only thing wrong about this war is we didnt let saddam finish gassing the iranians before we took over.


We don't want to confuse the Iranian people with their leader. That would be like civilians here should die because our leaders have done something stupid.

There is enough resistance in Iran to topple the goverment but there is not a strong enough movement to do so. I believe that we should help that occur rather then expand the war.

10thzodiac
05-30-07, 05:48 PM
Exit From Iraq Should Be Through Iran
Linking forces with Iran could minimize the costs of withdrawal from Iraq



William E. Odom
YaleGlobal, 29 May 2007


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=320 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD rowSpan=4>http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/images/clearPoint.gif</TD><TD height=3></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.image?id=9224</TD></TR><TR><TD class=caption vAlign=top align=left>Wrong direction: A US war flotilla enters the Persian Gulf to pressure Iran, but diplomacy may be more effective to bring balance to the Middle East</TD></TR><TR><TD height=3></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
WASHINGTON: Increasingly bogged down in the sands of Iraq, the US thrashes about looking for an honorable exit. Restoring cooperation between Washington and Tehran is the single most important step that could be taken to rescue the US from its predicament in Iraq. Understanding why requires some historical reflection.

Since the mid-1950s, US policy in the Middle East and Persian Gulf region was implicitly based on three pillars – Israel, Iran and Saudi Arabia. As the British withdrew, Washington established nervous but lasting ties with Saudi Arabia. At the same time, the US built strong relations with the shah of Iran. After 1948, when it recognized the new state of Israel, the US slowly became a guarantor of that new state's survival. London's role in the entire region became marginal, especially after the Suez crisis in 1956, when President Dwight Eisenhower abruptly stopped the joint British-Israeli military operation to seize the Suez Canal.


Thus by preventing any of the three camps from overrunning the other, the US provided regional stability.

Whether American leaders employed this strategy by design or by trial and error is arguable. At the time, they were more concerned with the Soviet challenge, trying to organize the so-called "northern tier," i.e., with Turkey, Iran and Pakistan, as a barrier to Soviet influence. They probably did not foresee they had undertaken an equally demanding task of sublimating two major intra-regional quarrels, virtually irresolvable ones.


Although the Arab-Israel quarrel is well known, the Persian-Arab quarrel is poorly understood. Iran has long made claims on territories on the Arab side of the Gulf and especially with Iraq over the Shatt-al-Arab waterway at the mouth of the Tigris River. The Sunni-Shiite religious fissure reinforces Persian-Arab animosities, but no less important is the old sense of cultural superiority among the Iranians toward the Arabs.


By keeping strong diplomatic ties in all three camps, the US maintained regional stability with limited military power.

Whether American leaders employed this strategy by design or by trial and error is arguable. At the time, they were more concerned with the Soviet challenge, trying to organize the so-called "northern tier," i.e., with Turkey, Iran and Pakistan, as a barrier to Soviet influence. They probably did not foresee they had undertaken an equally demanding task of sublimating two major intra-regional quarrels, virtually irresolvable ones.


Although the Arab-Israel quarrel is well known, the Persian-Arab quarrel is poorly understood. Iran has long made claims on territories on the Arab side of the Gulf and especially with Iraq over the Shatt-al-Arab waterway at the mouth of the Tigris River. The Sunni-Shiite religious fissure reinforces Persian-Arab animosities, but no less important is the old sense of cultural superiority among the Iranians toward the Arabs.


By keeping strong diplomatic ties in all three camps, the US maintained regional stability with limited military power.

Meetings just started between US and Iranian envoys could reestablish the basis for regional stability that existed until 1979 and may be the best hope for containing the chaos that the US invasion of Iraq is unleashing. Unless the US convinces Iran to play a cooperative role, the conflict will spread. Indeed, fear of sectarian violence spreading is why the Saudi leadership, usually supportive of Washington, recently called the US occupation of Iraq illegal.


Thus the US footing in the Arab camp has been eroding. If that continues, the cost in increased US military power to maintain Israel’s ultimate security will soon be beyond US means. A rapprochement with Iran, therefore, is the key to restoring regional stability as the US withdraws from Iraq.


Can it be reached? Yes, if the US is willing to pay the price of dropping its "all sticks" policy for stopping Iran’s nuclear-weapons program. Put plainly, the US has two choices: It can have an Iran with nuclear weapons that refuses to cooperate on many shared interests. Or it can have an Iran with nuclear weapons that is willing to cooperate.


Tehran has as much interest in stability in both Iraq and Afghanistan as does Washington. Both oppose Al Qaeda. Iran needs US oil-production technology. Greater Iranian oil and gas production benefits the US. Iran's ties with Russia are without historical precedent and strained. The US could offer more and better technologies than Russia provides Iran. Iran's record for spreading radical Islamic political movements is more limited than is generally realized. In fact, beyond Hezbollah in Lebanon, and a few terrorist groups trained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps and directed toward Israel and Iranian émigrés in Europe, it has behaved conservatively, especially in Central Asia and the Muslim parts of the Caucasus.


Iran was hostile to the Taliban in Afghanistan. And it does not like the radical brands of Islam that Pakistan sponsors with Arab money in Afghanistan and Central Asia.


Iran realizes that although its influence in Iraq has increased immensely, it faces limits. Once US forces leave Iraq, even Shiite Iraqis will view Persians with suspicion. Moreover, Iran – like Turkey, Iraq and Syria – does not want an independent Kurdish state. US cooperation will be required to prevent that.

Only nuclear weapons and Hezbollah remain obstacles to US-Iranian tacit cooperation. And Iran will eventually acquire nuclear weapons if it is determined to do so, although not in less than a decade. The nation is less likely to go all the way to exploding a nuclear device if it has good ties with Washington than if it does not. Improved relations with the US will inexorably reduce Iranian hostile policies toward Israel.


Iran can’t help but observe the examples that the US has set with India's and Pakistan's nuclear-weapons programs. After opposing both for years, Washington essentially embraced both countries once they acquired nuclear weapons. The lesson for both Iran and North Korea is simple: acquire nuclear weapons and the US will not only stop threatening "regime change," but will also seek good relations.


Effectively the US has demolished the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Iran might settle for a security guarantee against an Israeli nuclear strike, but its fears of Pakistani nuclear capability are probably more acute – especially as Al Qaeda, hiding in Pakistan, is dedicated to the destruction of Iran's Shiite-controlled regime and openly calls on the US to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities.


Once this is understood, the makings of a deal are straightforward. The matter of Israel and Hezbollah can probably be sublimated if Washington preemptively drops the nuclear issue, along with its threat to change the regime in Iran.


The old "double-straddle" strategy may once more be feasible, and most parties in the region will be the beneficiaries, allowing the US to begin the long road back to restoring its credibility as a regional balancer. The US has no better way out of the cul-de-sac in Iraq. And even then, the US needs European and Asian allies to help.

Lieutenant General William E. Odom (Retired), US Army, is a senior fellow with the Hudson Institute and a professor at Yale University. He was director of the National Security Agency from 1985 to 1988, and his most recent book, “America’s Inadvertent Empire,” co-authored with Robert Dujarric, was published in 2004 by Yale University Press.


http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=9223

This sounds very intelligent.

Jetdawwg, you old dawgg you ! I started reading your post and didn't pay attention who posted it. The more I read it, the more I liked it, honestly I didn't know it was your post until the end and saw your signature.

When I first saw the thread title I jumped to a conclusion (here we go again) another hard-line spiel for a march [Sherman] to the sea through Iran.

The rift between the Persians (Iranians) and Arabs I experienced first hand that General Odom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_E._Odom) articulates. While I was an electrician at Brach Candy Company in Chicago my co-worker Ahmed "Art" Falahi a handsome Persian kid, without provocation started to get teased in the company cafeteria from another table by some not so handsome Arabs from our receiving department. They were calling him cute and asking him, if they could kiss him ? Art was oblivious to their taunts at first. By the time he caught on, one of the Arabs was telling the others to knock it off, he's the same religion.

To me the Persians look somewhat different than the Arabs; Art never mixed with any of the Arabs.

The following which General Odom points out I already knew:

"The lesson for both Iran and North Korea is simple: acquire nuclear weapons and the US will not only stop threatening "regime change," but will also seek good relations."

Lt. General William Odom served as the National Security Adviser under President Regan.

QUOTE
"The president [George W. Bush] has let (the Iraq war) proceed on automatic pilot, making no corrections in the face of accumulating evidence that his strategy is failing and cannot be rescued. He lets the United States fly further and further into trouble, squandering its influence, money and blood, facilitating the gains of our enemies." ~ Lt. Gen. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieutenant_General_%28United_States%29)William E. Odom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_E._Odom), USA

In summation: Ironically, Americas Nuclear Non-Proliferation policy is de facto Nuclear Proliferation.

sdk87to91
05-30-07, 06:31 PM
How about another regime change?! I hear the Iranians would be for it.

ivalis
05-30-07, 08:22 PM
Goood idea, the last regime change worked so well.

huey guns
05-30-07, 11:01 PM
Hey 10th, how about some personal opinion, instead of just a bunch of cut and paste. Why do you let sombody else's words be yours?

HOLM
05-31-07, 10:38 AM
We don't want to confuse the Iranian people with their leader. That would be like civilians here should die because our leaders have done something stupid.

There is enough resistance in Iran to topple the goverment but there is not a strong enough movement to do so. I believe that we should help that occur rather then expand the war.

You just described US foreign policy about Iraq from 1996 until 2001...

In my opinion, that is what made OIF unavoidable... So be careful what you ask for...

The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.4655.ENR:


SEC. 3. SENSE OF THE CONGRESS REGARDING UNITED STATES POLICY TOWARD IRAQ.

It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.SEC. 4. ASSISTANCE TO SUPPORT A TRANSITION TO DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ.

(a) AUTHORITY TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE- The President may provide to the Iraqi democratic opposition organizations designated in accordance with section 5 the following assistance:


(1) BROADCASTING ASSISTANCE- (A) Grant assistance to such organizations for radio and television broadcasting by such organizations to Iraq.


(B) There is authorized to be appropriated to the United States Information Agency $2,000,000 for fiscal year 1999 to carry out this paragraph.


(2) MILITARY ASSISTANCE- (A) The President is authorized to direct the drawdown of defense articles from the stocks of the Department of Defense, defense services of the Department of Defense, and military education and training for such organizations.


(11) On August 14, 1998, President Clinton signed Public Law 105-235, which declared that `the Government of Iraq is in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations' and urged the President `to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations.'.
(12) On May 1, 1998, President Clinton signed Public Law 105-174, which made $5,000,000 available for assistance to the Iraqi democratic opposition for such activities as organization, training, communication and dissemination of information, developing and implementing agreements among opposition groups, compiling information to support the indictment of Iraqi officials for war crimes, and for related purposes.

10thzodiac
05-31-07, 10:50 AM
Hey 10th, how about some personal opinion, instead of just a bunch of cut and paste. Why do you let sombody else's words be yours?

Yo ! heuy guns, what part of my opinon did you miss: http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/06.gif

Jetdawwg, you old dawgg you ! I started reading your post and didn't pay attention who posted it. The more I read it, the more I liked it, honestly I didn't know it was your post until the end and saw your signature.

When I first saw the thread title I jumped to a conclusion (here we go again) another hard-line spiel for a march [Sherman] to the sea through Iran.

The rift between the Persians (Iranians) and Arabs I experienced first hand that General Odom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_E._Odom) articulates. While I was an electrician at Brach Candy Company in Chicago my co-worker Ahmed "Art" Falahi a handsome Persian kid, without provocation started to get teased in the company cafeteria from another table by some not so handsome Arabs from our receiving department. They were calling him cute and asking him, if they could kiss him ? Art was oblivious to their taunts at first. By the time he caught on, one of the Arabs was telling the others to knock it off, he's the same religion.

To me the Persians look somewhat different than the Arabs; Art never mixed with any of the Arabs.

The following which General Odom points out I already knew:

"The lesson for both Iran and North Korea is simple: acquire nuclear weapons and the US will not only stop threatening "regime change," but will also seek good relations."

Lt. General William Odom served as the National Security Adviser under President Regan.

QUOTE
"The president [George W. Bush] has let (the Iraq war) proceed on automatic pilot, making no corrections in the face of accumulating evidence that his strategy is failing and cannot be rescued. He lets the United States fly further and further into trouble, squandering its influence, money and blood, facilitating the gains of our enemies." ~ Lt. Gen. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieutenant_General_%28United_States%29)William E. Odom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_E._Odom), USA

In summation: Ironically, Americas Nuclear Non-Proliferation policy is de facto Nuclear Proliferation.

10thz