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View Full Version : A Question About Pogues Vs Combat Vets



SSgtOfMarines
07-17-02, 02:04 PM
I might be a little brain fried, but I have a scenario that some of you true tried combat vets can clear up for me.

I was an 0811 then I was a FO. When I went to Somalia we didnt have any big guns with us, so I performed the 0311 mission (urban patrols, checkpoints etc.) We took our share of enemy fire and we fired back.

Now I am a Supply Guy. I work at the range as well. I also teach Combat Water Swimming.

My question is, did I lose my "hardness" the day I switched over to Supply? Did my MOS change, get rid of the fvckin nightmares I still get of little babies dead in the middle of the street and crazy afican mofos trying to strip everything off of us as we tried to hand out meals from the tops of hummers and 5-tons. Did my MOS change the fact that I'm still responsible for the Marines under my charge. That I still have to train them on all aspects of the Marines, including but not limited to patrolling, rear area security and calling for fire?

**** NO!

Have I seen the elephant? Yeah, he was disguised as a 97 lb humanitarian mission.

Does it make a difference? Yes

One thing you should never forget.... All it takes is one stray bomb, or one land mine to turn each and every Marine into a combat vet. Or a combat casuality.

Sgt E

Sparrowhawk
07-17-02, 04:32 PM
But, for the most part I got to wear mud flavored utilities, and got a chance to pop off a lot of caps at the enemy.

Some pogues got send to the field because they were s**tbirds in the rear, who figures what?

If only the Corps would have paid by confirmed kills, the question would have been answered. But, just as often it was luck that made that fool bastard jump into my line of firing.


Like I said b4, some got hurt in the field and ended up at supply. I guess the way I figure it, if you didn't turn in your P-38, you're still in combat.

As far as seeing the elephant, I think his sister resides over here and keeps craping on my front yawn, cause I have to get up all hours of the night to chase her away.

<hr>

To tell you the truth, I never knew others had not experienced what I had experienced until a few years back. I never tried to make any distinction (except for those Army-of-One dudes). We all did our part and I'm grateful for those that were there in one form or another together.





http://www.msnbc.com/c/0/91/897/10x7/twip_2002_0704_08.jpg

USMC0311
07-17-02, 04:53 PM
It's about MUD!!! Closer To Mud Closer to Blood!!
God, Country, and Corps Knows We are a Team!!
The Best in The World !! Semper Fidelis, MARINES

Sparrowhawk
07-17-02, 05:11 PM
India Company at the Gates of Hell

They were the Old-Timers, that were there when I got to India Company. they taught me how to survive.

http://vietnamveterans.bizland.com/GOH.gif

USMC0311
07-17-02, 05:11 PM
This Bro is the DOC that patched my wounds on operation UTAH 6 Mar 66!!

http://www.usmc0311.com/images/MOH280366.jpg

His Citation:
Medal of Honor - 1966 (http://www.usmc0311.com/courage.asp)

Sparrowhawk
07-17-02, 05:23 PM
http://vietnamveterans.bizland.com/goh1.gif

Sparrowhawk
07-17-02, 05:30 PM
http://vietnamveterans.bizland.com/AAAaaa.gif

Sparrowhawk
07-17-02, 05:41 PM
Among the best in the Corps!

NamGrunt68
07-17-02, 05:43 PM
I'll be a few klicks outside o Hue.....jump in da hole if ya gets a chance.........

LadyLeatherneck
07-17-02, 06:17 PM
this is an Open Squad bay and we're all entitled to our
own opinion and well I've never been scared of standing
up and voicing my opinion so here it is....

First of all, NO I'm not a combat veteran and
I have the deepest respect for combat veterans, well
some of them anyhow.

I'll take Sparrowhawk for example. This Marine is one damn
warrior. Served in Vietnam and went through some major
crap, BUT not once have I seen him put any other Marine
down just because he wasn't a Combat Marine.

I'm sorry to be bold here but just because you were
"in the mud" doesn't give you the right to talk down
on others and belittle them by saying they're not worthy.
No I've never killed anyone, no I don't have nightmares and
just because you do and I don't that DOESN'T make you better.

I thank combat veterans from the bottom of my heart because
they had the courage to do what many people don't have the
courage to do..and that's SERVE THEIR COUNTRY IN TIME OF WAR,
but realize that this country is not always in a WAR situation and
many Marines will NOT and ARE NOT COMBAT Veterans and that's
not by choice.

Look past your nose and realize that it's not ALL about you.
Us (non-combat veterans) don't try and understand what you've
been through BUT do understand to some degree..why because
as Sergeant of Marines said..."All it takes is one stray bomb, or
one land mine to turn each and every Marine into a combat vet.
Or a combat casuality. " I'm sure you saw death all around you
but don't use that as a way to put yourself above others because
we've all experienced the death of someone close to us in one
way or another...like having to come into the office to find out a
Marine you saw everyday and took care of when he had pay problems
hung himself in his garage leaving a wife and child and you having
to close out his SRB or having to line up 400 Marines from your
Battalion that are being sent out to a Humanitarian Mission and
having them sit next to you one after another and you having to
ask them in case they don't come back who do they want their
SGLI to go to and the thought that you might never see that Marine
again. Like I said I can't understand what you've been through
but just because you might of "seen the elephant" that doesn't
make you better. There's sh!tbirds in every MOS so just because
he was an 0311 and I was an 01 that doesn't make him better
because he might of been one hell of a sh!tbird and we all know
THIS is true.

It's all about respect. Respect people for who they are and get
to know them and don't judge them because of an MOS.
We all make choices but we don't have control of our destiny.

Semper Fi Brothers and Sisters

P.S. This is not in any way directed to anyone, but if the shoe
fits then well you know the rest.

God Bless!

DevilDog1
07-17-02, 06:40 PM
Good post LL i hope all read that one, i have seen my share of death in the field, but i was not in Viet Nam, and yes i did kill a few, but i to get ragged on about not doing enough, i hear sometimes "you guys didnt do "sh*@" but i just think it depends on the vet you talk to, and you are right its all about respect.

Attached is a photo of 2 Marines that didn't make it back, one died while we worked on him and the other was my bunk mate @ camp geiger..... I would rather have them all back than to be a combat Marine........................
Semper FI Marines

dnelson
07-17-02, 09:43 PM
LL what about the Maint BN Capt Purple Heart in Somalia. Or those from Maint BN who got there Combat Action ribbon from Desert Storm. There were those that were used as decoys when the Ground attack started. I can't remember the Name of the town but Some Maint Bn Marines were given the task of holding the town and Making it look like it was a much larger unit.
We're pouges till the action starts. Not like me got stuck and never saw the action. Out of 20 years always peace. Or in the wrong coast, or On Okinawa. Or like the last time I was just coming out of ICU(From a heart attack) when Kuwati was invaded. Had to stand by as my Marines went over that sucked.

Semper Fi

tun75
07-17-02, 11:01 PM
LL, outstanding post Marine, i couldn't agree more. not every Marine was in during "wartime" but they all volunteered. don't forget not all combat vets were volunteers some had to be there and some of those acted as though they didn't want to be there. so how can someone be better cause they saw combat. you dont know how non combat vets would act in that situation.
Semper Fi and respecting all those who gave in war or peace as long as they gave what was asked of them!
Bill

Laamie
07-18-02, 08:04 AM
You can have my CAR back.
S/F,
Dick

USMC0311
07-18-02, 08:55 AM
I am Proud to be a Marine. I am even more Proud that I was given the privlage of being a Marine 0311. I was also allowed the Honor of distinguising my Patroitism, By Helping to defend Our Country as part of the Finest Fighting unit in the world.

I also have had the opportunity to be a Garrison Marine. I worked at OCS Quantico Va for 5 Candidates Series. I was a Logistics and Supply NCO (property NCO),

I Was the same Marine in Admin as I was In Vietnam.

I Do Know One Sure Thing about My Beloved Corps!!
There is no Greater Love than that between, Combat Marines..Unconditional Love!!

Semper Fidelis, Marines!!

LadyLeatherneck
07-18-02, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by dnelson
LL what about the Maint BN Capt Purple Heart in Somalia. Or those from Maint BN who got there Combat Action ribbon from Desert Storm. There were those that were used as decoys when the Ground attack started. I can't remember the Name of the town but Some Maint Bn Marines were given the task of holding the town and Making it look like it was a much larger unit.
We're pouges till the action starts. Not like me got stuck and never saw the action. Out of 20 years always peace. Or in the wrong coast, or On Okinawa. Or like the last time I was just coming out of ICU(From a heart attack) when Kuwati was invaded. Had to stand by as my Marines went over that sucked.

Semper Fi

I sure remember that Captain. That was Captain Steele and he got hit in the knee over in Somalia. I typed that purple heart in his OQR and you're right Nelson I think everytime the sh!t hit
the fan Maint Bn was called. When I checked into MaintBn in
June of 1992 every Marine in the admin shop had been in Desert
Storm and they were not out there doing Admin. They shared
alot of stories and pictures with me and really broke down the
new boot in the office (me). I'm thankful that I had the honor
to serve with combat veterans. They were a tough bunch and
never gave me any slack. They're the ones that named me
"Hardcharger". The boot PFC with the Marine Corps sticker on
her car so damn motivated...LOL!! Gosh they gave me so much sh!t for that, but
funny thing is...I still have a Marine Corps sticker on my car :D

Semper Fi

NamGrunt68
07-18-02, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by USMC0311
I am Proud to be a Marine. I am even more Proud that I was given the privlage of being a Marine 0311. I was also allowed the Honor of distinguising my Patroitism, By Helping to defend Our Country as part of the Finest Fighting unit in the world.

I also have had the opportunity to be a Garrison Marine. I worked at OCS Quantico Va for 5 Candidates Series. I was a Logistics and Supply NCO (property NCO),

I Was the same Marine in Admin as I was In Vietnam.

I Do Know One Sure Thing about My Beloved Corps!!
There is no Greater Love than that between, Combat Marines..Unconditional Love!!

Semper Fidelis, Marines!!

Bro, I hear ya.....my last duty station before I got out was at Parris Island.....due to the wounds in Nam, they weren't bad enough for a medical discharge, but they were bad enuff for the Corps to relieve me of my 03 MOS duties....besides, wasn't too much need of a "Flameman" at Parris Island....they didn't have no sh!tters for me to burn !!!!.....last 7 months was in an office and I worked for none other Medal of Honor recipient J. J. McGinty.....anyway, bottom line is I'd much rather been smellin mud than ink !!!! And yer right.........STRONGEST BOND IN THE WORLD !!!!

Frank
07-18-02, 06:21 PM
Dane, what rank was McGinty when you worked for him? He was awarded the MOH (along with his company commander) for his actions as a SSgt with Kilo 3/4 during Operation Prairie in '66. I was in Mike 3/4 at the time, and last time I saw him he had been commissioned as a 2dLt. By the way, this week marks the 36th anniversary of the start of Operation Hastings, another rough one for 3/4, especially Kilo Co. Kilo's CO, Capt J J Carroll, was KIA on Hastings, and our Chaplain, Stan Beach, lost a leg. Camp Carroll was named in memory of J J Carroll, one tough SOB and a helluva Marine. Semper Fidelis, Frank

NamGrunt68
07-18-02, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Frank
Dane, what rank was McGinty when you worked for him? He was awarded the MOH (along with his company commander) for his actions as a SSgt with Kilo 3/4 during Operation Prairie in '66. I was in Mike 3/4 at the time, and last time I saw him he had been commissioned as a 2dLt. By the way, this week marks the 36th anniversary of the start of Operation Hastings, another rough one for 3/4, especially Kilo Co. Kilo's CO, Capt J J Carroll, was KIA on Hastings, and our Chaplain, Stan Beach, lost a leg. Camp Carroll was named in memory of J J Carroll, one tough SOB and a helluva Marine. Semper Fidelis, Frank

Bro, if'n my memory serves me correctly he was a 1st Louie !!!
I respect him for his actions in Vietnam, and I have read the citation, and no doubt he deserved to receive the MOH......However he was one egotistacal azzhole at PI...remember the Old Magazines for men such as "Stag" and "Men Only"......he had stacks and stacks of them in his office to give away because his story was printed in some issues of them.....anyway, I served under him the last part of 68 and up to March 69........Quick lil story.......Parris Island was my last duty station and I worked part time at night in the SNCO club waiting tables and washing dinner (had already met my bride and needed mo money),,,I got along great with the Gunny that managed the bar at night......One night McGinty has OD and comes in the Bar and looks at the Gunny and sez....." How bout a drink for the Hero??"..........the Gunny sez, "Sir, you not supposed to drink on duty"........McGinty sez...." Hey Gunny, ain't nobody gonna know but you , me and the LCpl there (me)......the Gunny looks at me, then back at him and sez, OK.....the Gunny pours a shot in the glass, and chugs it down himself.......Sh!t, McGinty storms out o there without sayin another word.....we like to sh!t ourselves laffin so hard.......

arzach
07-18-02, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by NamGrunt68


Bro, I hear ya.....my last duty station before I got out was at Parris Island.....due to the wounds in Nam, they weren't bad enough for a medical discharge, but they were bad enuff for the Corps to relieve me of my 03 MOS duties....besides, wasn't too much need of a "Flameman" at Parris Island....they didn't have no sh!tters for me to burn !!!!.....last 7 months was in an office and I worked for none other Medal of Honor recipient J. J. McGinty.....anyway, bottom line is I'd much rather been smellin mud than ink !!!! And yer right.........STRONGEST BOND IN THE WORLD !!!!
Bro, wherever ya go ina Marine Corps, there'll be a sh!tter fer ya ta burn!
last couple months I did before I got out was inventory for a new tractor Co. CoC 2ndAMTRAC Bn.---Lord, I wuz bored! much rather been haulin' grunts, re-supplyin' em, or just plain 'tracin' thru da Nam, dodgin' mines! Damn that sounds crazy--but, it's the truth. glad ta be 'home', but sure missed muh Bros!!

NamGrunt68
07-18-02, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by arzach

Bro, wherever ya go ina Marine Corps, there'll be a sh!tter fer ya ta burn!
last couple months I did before I got out was inventory for a new tractor Co. CoC 2ndAMTRAC Bn.---Lord, I wuz bored! much rather been haulin' grunts, re-supplyin' em, or just plain 'tracin' thru da Nam, dodgin' mines! Damn that sounds crazy--but, it's the truth. glad ta be 'home', but sure missed muh Bros!!

Bro.....I miss em too.......I surely do........

Frank
07-19-02, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by NamGrunt68


Bro, if'n my memory serves me correctly he was a 1st Louie !!!
I respect him for his actions in Vietnam, and I have read the citation, and no doubt he deserved to receive the MOH......However he was one egotistacal azzhole at PI....

You hit the nail on the head about his ego, Dane. I didn't know him very well, but he sure had that cocky attitude when he joined Kilo. A couple of Bro's from boot camp were in his platoon (one was KIA in the Kilo ambush), and they thought he was a pr*ck. Sure couldn't question his leadership during that ambush, though. We lost a lot of Bro's that week. Semper Fidelis, Frank