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thedrifter
05-11-07, 11:12 AM
Does America Need A Bigger Military?
Stretched thin, the U.S. military needs to get bigger. But that will require some sacrifice.
WEB EXCLUSIVE

By John Barry
Newsweek
Updated: 6:49 p.m. ET May 10, 2007

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/070509_070514/070510_SoldierIraq_wide.hlarge.jpg

Cpl. Samuel D. Corum / US Marines-AP
Worn Down: A Marine gets some rest during a recent operation in Iraq

May 10, 2007 - There are the dead and wounded, then there are the damaged. The longer a soldier stays in Iraq, the more combat he or she sees, the greater the stress, the higher the psychological toll. Just over a quarter of the U.S. soldiers and Marines enduring a second tour in Iraq showed signs of mental illness (versus 17 percent of those on their first deployment), according to the latest survey by the Army’s Mental Health Advisory Team (MHAT). The team found, in its survey last fall, a clear linkage between time in combat and alcoholism, marital troubles and suicide. A disturbingly high 10 percent admitted mistreating Iraqi civilians or wantonly damaging their property. Soldiers who screened positive for mental-health problems were twice as likely to admit to abusing Iraqis as those screening clear.

What’s the answer? According to psychologists on the team, more time at home between deployments, what the Army calls “dwell” time. Ideally, recommends the MHAT report, soldiers would deploy for six months, then spend 18 to 36 months at home. But that is impossible. The Army is so undermanned that soldiers are going to Iraq for a year, coming home for a year—and heading right back to combat. “The U.S. military is too small to meet current needs or expected contingencies,” write Michael O’Hanlon of the Brookings Institution and Fred Kagan of the American Enterprise Institute. These two respected analysts calculate that a host of potential future crises (Iran, Korea, Pakistan, Kashmir) dictates “at least another 100,000 active duty soldiers and marines.” In 1990, the regular Army numbered 750,000, but it’s shrunk almost 40 percent since then. Congress has recently voted to increase Army strength by 65,000, up to 547,000 troops, but that’s probably not enough. Since 9/11, the Army has been using the Reserve and National Guard to bolster its force. The guard is hardly a bunch of “weekend warriors,” but few guardsmen signed up thinking they would wind up in Iraq for a year. As the slow response to the Kansas tornado showed last week, sending the guard abroad may weaken it at home.

The real problem is money. The Army is spending millions just to maintain its all-volunteer force. Badly needed specialists are paid tens of thousands of dollars in bonuses to re-enlist. The baseline cost of national defense—that is, excluding the cost of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan—has gone up by a third since 1998 and will reach close to 50 percent by 2009. Medical costs are soaring. One reason the Army has been loath to increase its numbers is that it needs money to replace equipment and buy new technology. Just repairing and replacing equipment chewed in Iraq will cost the army $13 billion.

It may be time to bring the Army back to cold war levels, but where will that money come from? Measured as a percentage of GDP, today America spends on its military less than half of what it spent during Vietnam (4.2 percent this year, against 8.9 percent in 1968). President Bush has not hesitated to ask for sacrifice from the soldiers he sends into combat. Now may be the time to ask for some sacrifice from the rest of America.

Ellie

jetdawgg
05-11-07, 01:01 PM
A sane Foreign Policy would help also.:usmc:

hrscowboy
05-11-07, 02:44 PM
No what we need is a Military draft back.. 2 years active service required and no college deferments, thats what we need..

eddief
05-12-07, 05:38 PM
No what we need is a Military draft back.. 2 years active service required and no college deferments, thats what we need..

Involuntary servitude is unAmerican.

Osotogary
05-12-07, 07:20 PM
Involuntary servitude is unAmerican, eddief,....
but essential. Could the word duty be used instead of servitude?
My pipedream-
Like any other compulsory duty national policy (or servitude), if enacted, I would like to see it implemented and enforced equally.

eddief
05-12-07, 07:47 PM
Involuntary servitude is unAmerican, eddief,....
but essential. Could the word duty be used instead of servitude?
My pipedream-
Like any other compulsory duty national policy (or servitude), if enacted, I would like to see it implemented and enforced equally.


When you submit to a draft you are basically agreeing with the state that the state owns you. Sorry, but I'm a free man not owned by any entity.

Zulu 36
05-12-07, 07:48 PM
There is a difference between servitude and service. Look it up.

So many people concern themselves with rights, rights, rights, and fail to consider duty.

skyhawker
05-12-07, 08:08 PM
Every male, if physicaly fit, upon graduation of high school should be required to serve 2 years minimum. Any branch he chooses. If he goes to college upon graduation, 2 years. No deferments. Maybe some of these drug heads would amount to something, after some (D I) straighten's their ass out.

Osotogary
05-12-07, 08:09 PM
If an indivual is issued a draft card but enlists instead, what would that person be called? A person in the service of his or her country or a person in the servitude of his or her country?
There is a difference between servitude and service. Look it up.
I looked it up, Zulu 36. Either way, someone is working for someone else. LOL.

hrscowboy
05-12-07, 08:21 PM
buttom line eddieF thank a vet for your freedom of speech because if it wasnt for them you wouldnt be making the statements that you are..

sgt tony
05-12-07, 08:24 PM
I think the draft may be needed to bring the services up to the personal needed. But they will need equipment, training and more bases. We have closed to many bases and now we need to open a few back up.

10thzodiac
05-12-07, 09:33 PM
America was the first neo-colonial country engaged in a foreign intervention with an army of conscripted citizens and it didn't work.

Case in point:

Vietnam: The citizen army that was sent there caused anti-war movements back home in America, a 43 % drug problem among soldiers, soldiers killing their own officers and over 1000 official fraggings. The American army was coming unraveled and fast loosing control of its soldiers.

Pre-Tet, American business interests told President Lyndon B. Johnson to get out of Vietnam, that Vietnam was no longer a competing threat we had decimated the country, bring the troops home and not to run for office again; then there was the Tet Offensive and President Johnson wanted to send an additional 200,000 troops. The Generals revolted and told him no, that those troops would be needed home in America to put down uprisings all over America if he sent them. Johnson left office and never sent the additional 200,000 troops. The rest is history.

The English, French and other colonial powers used mercenaries effectively to avoid anti-war backlash. The British Gurkha's, French Foreign Legion and etc. They knew if you are going to engage in foreign interventions you need a professional army not conscripted citizens.

Next time a President gets a masonic mission from God, ask him if God said, "remember to use mercenaries."

3077India
05-12-07, 09:48 PM
Next time a President gets a masonic mission from God, ask him if God said, "remember to use mercenaries."At any time in our history has the US ever used mercenaries? Just curious.

Zulu 36
05-12-07, 09:56 PM
If an indivual is issued a draft card but enlists instead, what would that person be called? A person in the service of his or her country or a person in the servitude of his or her country?
There is a difference between servitude and service. Look it up.
I looked it up, Zulu 36. Either way, someone is working for someone else. LOL.
That is putting it a bit too simply. Servitude is more closely related to that of slavery. Forced, involuntary, and bound labor is usually uncompensated other than minimal lodging and food - if that much.

Service is more. It is almost always voluntary and compensated (by tangible and/or intangible valuables).

Being drafted into the military service of our nation is far from servitude. It is compensated tangibly by the same food, clothing, lodging, training, pay, and VA benefits, as a volunteer to the military. Many draftees find too the intangibles of military service: A feeling of honor and of civic duty done.

Other nations may intentionally treat military draftees differently than volunteers, but our nation is not one of them.

10thzodiac
05-12-07, 09:58 PM
At any time in our history has the US ever used mercenaries? Just curious.

3077India

Google: american mercenaries

SF

10th

marinegreen
05-12-07, 10:25 PM
Every male, if physicaly fit, upon graduation of high school should be required to serve 2 years minimum. Any branch he chooses. If he goes to college upon graduation, 2 years. No deferments. Maybe some of these drug heads would amount to something, after some (D I) straighten's their ass out.


I agree with this whole heartedly but make it 3 yrs. I guarantee it would get rid of that smart azzed attitude these young peeps have. Because our laws say you cant put a azz whuppen on your kids for disciplinary matters or god forbid if you yell at them cuz you'll make mass murders outta them they have no respect for there elders so I say upon graduation frm high school its off to boot camp:yes: We wouldnt worry about no troop shortage.

eddief
05-13-07, 08:01 AM
buttom line eddieF thank a vet for your freedom of speech because if it wasnt for them you wouldnt be making the statements that you are..


I just thanked myself.

Old Marine
05-13-07, 08:20 AM
There is a difference between servitude and service. Look it up.

So many people concern themselves with rights, rights, rights, and fail to consider duty.

Growing up as a child the only rights I knew about were the ones my parents gave me. Those were the only rights that ment anything to me and I have survived pretty well on them.

The problem these days is that parents need to have the right to knock their kid up side their head if they step out of line and forget all those constinutional rights.

Sgt Leprechaun
05-13-07, 01:25 PM
Interesting take, Eddief. However, I would say that you are not, as you believe, a 'free man'. Unless, of course, you don't have a drivers license (a privledge granted by the state you live in, contingent on you following the rules laid down by state agencies, such as wearing seat belts, obeying speed limits, etc), you don't pay taxes (in which case, the IRS will hunt you down), you don't own property (not mowing your grass while belonging to an HOA, for example, will show you just how 'free' you are), etc etc.

The point I'm making here is that none of us, not a one, are 'free' in any sense of the word. Some of us are 'free-er' than others, certainly.

I would be fully in support of either a draft, or some sort of 'national service' plan. My "Catch" comes from Starship troopers, tho. You can 'opt out' of military/national service. No problem. The decision can be re-visited at any time as long as you are physically/morally fit and able to serve. However, when you choose 'opt out', you no longer have the right to vote. Simple as that.

OLE SARG
05-13-07, 04:41 PM
GREAT POST OLD MARINE!!!!!! Great minds think alike - the school systems ought to be able to knock them up side their head also when they use profane language and disrespect teachers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got thumped, spanked, and rapped knuckles when I was in high school and by God (need to let God back in our schools - I DON'T GIVE A **** WHAT THE aclu SAYS) I survived and am a better man for it. LET'S PUT SOME DISCIPLINE BACK IN THE SYSTEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

Sgt Leprechaun
05-13-07, 06:20 PM
Yep. Let the schools be more concerned about LEARNING, and less about "Feeeeeeeeeeeeeelings".

It's all just twaddle otherwise.

Osotogary
05-13-07, 07:53 PM
Osotogary-
There is a difference between servitude and service. Look it up.
I looked it up, Zulu 36. Either way, someone is working for someone else. LOL.

Zulu 36-
That is putting it a bit too simply. Servitude is more closely related to that of slavery. Forced, involuntary, and bound labor is usually uncompensated other than minimal lodging and food - if that much.
Service is more. It is almost always voluntary and compensated (by tangible and/or intangible valuables).

Osotogary-
Agreement is mutual on your assessment of service and servitude, Zulu 36. I was just trying to show, at least the way I see it, that it all depends on how a word is used and in what context. I like the word duty myself but then again the word duty can also be used as a link to servitude or service. Semantics? You bet! I don't know of too many words that are "cut and dry" except maybe yes and no and maybe...f*** you!