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thedrifter
03-06-03, 09:57 AM
The bravest of the brave, recon Marines were awarded four Medals of Honor, 13 Navy Crosses and 72 Silver Stars for service in Vietnam. <br />
<br />
As told by Lawrence C. Vetter <br />
<br />
The 3rd Reconnaissance...

thedrifter
03-06-03, 10:02 AM
VN: Related to that same subject, you state that recon patrol reports prior to the Tet Offensive of 1968 indicated that the NVA were on the move toward Hue. You say that these reports must have been ignored, because the NVA surprised both the U.S. and South Vietnamese troops by appearing in force and capturing the imperial city along with some of the suburbs. Could you explain how that happened?

Vetter: In the months leading up to Tet that year, the 3rd Recon Battalion had five line companies. Two were operating near the Hue-Phu Bai area, and three were patrolling along the DMZ. The entire American command was focused on the siege at Khe Sanh, and then President Lyndon B. Johnson made the Joint Chiefs of Staff sign a statement that Khe Sanh would not be taken. They could not or would not see or believe the possibility of a massive attack against major urban areas. In the two months prior to Tet, however, patrol reports from the 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion outside the Hue-Phu Bai area were eye-opening if anyone paid attention. In those two months the two [recon] companies in that area made 77 percent of all the enemy sightings -- despite the fact that 60 percent of the battalion was patrolling the DMZ. Several different patrols each reported sighting hundreds of uniformed enemy in daylight walking down the middle of the Co Bi-Than Tan Valley toward Hue. God knows what must have gone through that area at night. Despite these sightings, everyone in the chain of command from MACV on down was taken totally by surprise when regiments from two NVA divisions, one sapper battalion and countless VC "suddenly" surfaced in Hue on Tet. The commander of the 3rd Recon at the time, Colonel Bill Kent (who is now retired), has stated that the reports the battalion forwarded to division seemed to go into a "black hole" and that there was no feedback from the higher command.

VN: Considering your research in writing your book what patrol or patrols stick out in your mind?

Vetter: There were so many, but if I had to try, I would guess one would have to be Lieutenant Jerry Siler's patrol that began at the end of 1966 and lasted into the first days of 1967. Siler and his team, I think, epitomize what recon is capable of and demonstrate the standard of professionalism that existed in the 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion. Originally, Siler's seven-man team was tasked to do a one-day bomb damage assessment in the Co Bi-Thanh Tan Valley, which was 15 miles northwest of Hue. Since the patrol was to be extracted at 1700 hours the same day, they only carried one canteen of water and did not take rations, rain gear or cleaning gear for their weapons.

However, shortly after the team had been inserted, they received an emergency radio call from another team from their company who was in contact with the NVA on the Co Bi-Thanh Tan ridge, about 2,000 meters away. Siler's team rushed to the other team, which already had two casualties. When they arrived, they formed a new perimeter and Siler called in medevac choppers. A group then assaulted the machine gun that had pinned them down, only to find the enemy had retreated. After the team's three casualties were picked up by the choppers, Siler reorganized the teams and took the rest of his team back down into the valley to continue their bomb damage assessment.

It was just past noon, and although the sun was still out, the clouds were starting to roll in, and Siler knew that there was no way they would be able to do a complete survey in the short time [they had left before the scheduled pickup]. December and January are the peak periods of the monsoon in that part of Vietnam, and although it had been sunny for the past few days, as their extraction time neared they suddenly found themselves completely socked in and could not be extracted. To complicate things, the next day was New Year's Eve and the beginning of a two-day U.S.&-declared truce. Through a driving storm, the team moved across a flat area that was mostly brush and open land, finally settling into some bushes on a slight rise for their harbor site. It was near a dirt road, and Siler said that worried him, but the rain was so heavy that they couldn't move any farther.

Later in the evening, despite the heavy rain, the team heard the clanking of weapons and gear and the sound of Vietnamese voices. Two team members crawled closer to the road and saw an endless column of NVA marching four abreast, wearing blue rain gear and carrying everything from AK-47s to heavy machine guns and mortars. As time went by, the S-3 began to pressure them for a head count. There was a solid stream of NVA that continued into the next day, and Siler estimated that about a company an hour was passing by their position. At one point they counted more than 200 passing in just 20 minutes. Siler said that the G-3 [division operations officer] was trying to get permission from Washington for clearance for air and artillery strikes.

Finally, just after dark on their second day, they received a radio transmission and were told to move "right now." The team jumped up in the middle of the NVA and ran toward a river 200 meters away. By the time the NVA heard them and reacted, the artillery began pouring in. Siler's team managed to get to the river and found cover behind its bank. They spent the night huddled together in the water, waiting for the artillery and bombing to end. The next morning they spotted a piece of high ground and spent the day moving between that observation point and the riverbank. They were informed that their air and artillery support had been canceled and that the weather was still too bad for the helicopters. Siler said he was worried about his team members' health. They all had immersion hand and immersion foot -- the skin on their hands and feet had become wrinkled and swollen and was now cracking and bleeding -- plus they had not eaten for three days.
On the fourth day they were told that they should try to walk out. Siler told them that he didn't think they were strong enough to make it, and that if they encountered any NVA, which he was pretty sure would happen, they wouldn't be able to put up much of a fight. Later that morning they were told that a company of grunts was going to be sweeping the area four klicks [kilometers] from their position, and they should try to link up with them. As the grunts moved toward the team, they pushed small groups of 10 to 12 NVA toward the team, and Siler began calling in artillery strikes on them. With the grunts in sight and with artillery support reinstated, Siler said he started to feel more confident and decided to ambush one of the groups. When they opened fire on the group, however, only one of the team's M-14s continued to fire after the first round. The NVA threw grenades and then fled. When the team moved forward they found three dead NVA. After the team finally linked up with the grunts, they were not extracted but instead had to continue the sweep across the valley with the infantry. They had been without food and exposed to the rain for four days. However, over those four days they had counted more than a thousand NVA -- possibly a regiment.

VN: I understand several recon members received the Medal of Honor for their actions in combat. Can you talk about some of them?

Vetter: One of those recipients was Lieutenant Terry Graves of 3rd Force. The patrol he led during the Tet Offensive in Leatherneck Square [the area of operations for the 3rd Marine Division, a "square" surrounded by bases at Con Thien, Gio Linh, Cam Lo and Dong Ha] was involved in a horrific firefight and outnumbered by about 25-to-1. One Bell UH-34 chopper was able to land to rescue the team. We all know that a "34" could not carry more than a four- or five-man team. There were eight reconners, though, and all were wounded. Both the chopper and the team were being badly hit by enemy fire, but seven Marines scrambled or were carried onto the bird very quickly. Lieutenant Graves, however, knew the chopper would not be able to lift off with any more people on board. Unbelievably, he waved the pilot into the air while he stayed to fight on alone. Then, equally heroic, two of the team's wounded Marines, Corporal Danny Slocum and Private First Class James Honeycutt, who were already on the bird, jumped off to stay and fight to the death with their lieutenant. The lightened load enabled the pilot to lift off and return to the base. Somehow Corporal Slocum survived, and Lieutenant Graves was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. Five members of that eight-man team were killed.

VN: You mentioned once that it was incredibly frustrating writing this book, because you knew there were probably many more stories like the ones you included that you could not use because you didn't have the facts or could not find the people who participated in the actions.

http://www.military.com/pics/vn1098INTERVIEWf2.jpg
six-man 3rd Force Recon team on patrol about 20 miles west of Hue in December 1966. (U.S. Marine Corps)

continued........

thedrifter
03-06-03, 10:04 AM
Vetter: Yes, it was frustrating. It took me three years to accumulate and verify all the accounts I have included, and I knew that there must be incredible stories out there that still needed to be told. In fact, after the book came out I was contacted by Fred Ostrom, one of the teammates of Robert H. Jenkins, Jr., another Medal of Honor recipient. Jenkins, he said, went out on patrol even though he was scheduled to rotate home in 10 days. Their team came under fire about 0400 one morning by about 100 NVA who opened the attack with gas grenades. When the medevac helicopters came in, the NVA opened up with mortars. The team suffered heavy casualties. When a grenade landed in the middle of their harbor site, Jenkins threw himself on it to save his teammates and was instantly killed. Ostrom, who is from New York, recently traveled to Jenkins' hometown in Florida to see his grave site and visit the family. Ostrom was shocked to learn that in 1969 the body of Medal of Honor recipient Robert Jenkins, who was an African American, had not been buried in the city cemetery but instead was buried in a black cemetery on the outskirts of town. To Ostrom's dismay, the cemetery was overgrown with weeds. It wasn't long before Ostrom contacted the other surviving members of the team to mount a concerted effort to try and change the situation and get Jenkins some of the recognition and honor they believe he deserves. Today -- at least partially as a result of efforts by teammates Fred Ostrom and Steve Lowery -- there is a public middle school named after Robert Jenkins and savings bonds are awarded annually to the top student in each of the three grades. There is also a new monument in the city to Vietnam veterans. All of these efforts reached a sort of culmination this last Veterans Day, when four members of Jenkins' old company showed up at Jenkins' grave site along with 300 other citizens and spent the day cleaning the graveyard and honoring Robert H. Jenkins, Jr. There have been permanent commitments made to keep the grave site tended and Jenkins' name and memory honored. Another twist to all of this is that the parents of the young Marine Lieutenant David Ferguson, who was also killed on that patrol, had just relocated to St. Petersburg, Florida, days before Veterans Day. They read the advertisement placed in the paper by Fred Ostrom and the other team members and were able to join in the ceremony at Jenkins' grave. There they met, for the first time, some of the Marines who had been with their son when he died fighting in Vietnam 27 years earlier. I know that to some people the Marine Corps motto "Semper Fidelis" may sound like, well, just a motto, but when you see examples of it like this, it is tremendously moving and makes you proud to be part of that tradition.

VN: What other responses have you received about the book?

Vetter: There have been an unbelievable number of individuals, both former members of the battalion and people who were never in Vietnam, who have written or called with touching stories. One individual said that he has never been able to discuss his experiences in Vietnam since he returned critically wounded in 1967. No one would believe him, so he just refused to talk about it. Then he read the book and found the account of the patrol on which he was almost killed. His name is there, and he told me that this has meant so much to him that he couldn't really explain it. Then there was a person currently on active duty with the Air Force and still wearing an MIA bracelet of one of the recon Marines who actually was killed on a patrol in 1967. After reading the book and speaking with me and others whose names I gave him, he was able for the first time to find out about the person whose name he has carried on his wrist for so many years. Interestingly, he had been in communication with [people in] Washington, D.C., concerning MIA search teams. He asked for map coordinates where this individual was killed, and I gave him that information from my research. It turned out that the location previously given the search teams was not the same, and he is trying to get them to recheck.

I also received a touching letter from a Mrs. Leigh Standingbear, who wrote that while she was attending Trinity University in San Antonio from 1970 to 1972 she protested just about everything, including the Vietnam War. She said that she had no real understanding of the issues of politics and war. "Make Love, Not War" was the only issue she and her friends were concerned with! She said that at that time she simply could not accept that men would allow themselves to be drafted or believe that what they were doing was right. She ended her letter saying: "Since those years and since meeting many heroes of that war, I felt a certain amount of anxiety and guilt because I was not able to be supportive of these men when they needed it most. Part of your Author's Note really hit home...'I saw them suffering for others and for what they had been taught was a worthwhile cause.' If only I had understood this then, for this is the key to acceptance and understanding which I did not yet have. The wisdom of this 'acceptance' and understanding has come with age and maturity...."

VN: What lessons do you think today's Marine reconnaissance teams can learn from Vietnam?

Vetter: In an appendix to the book, I wrote an 18-page "lessons learned" chapter. I really believe that there are a number of lessons that we learned in Vietnam with this type of special operations that are still applicable today. There are a few points that I hope commanders today will understand. One is that the mission of recon teams should be clear and fixed. In Vietnam it was modified with each new commanding general. Ideally their missions should be something like the Siler patrol, and not to "find, fix and engage the enemy" -- that is the infantry's role. Another point that can't be overemphasized is the importance of radio communication and coordination between the team on the ground with the supporting arms, which enables a small team to effectively direct artillery, air or naval gunfire onto a target. There is also a need to have more officers trained in reconnaissance skills. It would be beneficial, for example, to have these skills introduced in Basic School. Those young second lieutenants should have to go on a three-day patrol that would include helicopter insertion, calling in artillery and the handling of serious casualties. Most reconnaissance teams are made up of young 18- and 19-year-old Marines; they deserve to have trained officers, mature NCOs and staff NCOs leading them. Finally, if a reconnaissance unit trains its teams and sends them into difficult and hostile situations, those in command should work with them when assigning missions and believe their team leaders' reports.

http://www.military.com/pics/vn1098INTERVIEWf3.jpg
Lieutenant Lawrence C. Vetter on patrol outside the old village of Khe Sanh in 1969. More than 20 years after leaving the Marines, Vetter wrote Never Without Heroes, which tells the story of the Marine 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion. (Floyd Nagler, via Lawrence C. Vetter

Sempers,

Roger

MillRatUSMC
03-06-03, 10:25 AM
"Little Gull, Little Gull, sitrep!"
I say again;
"Little Gull, Little Gull, sitrep!"

LITTLE GULL
When I arrived in country.
You were in the bush.
I was assigned to your team.
Call sign "LITTLE GULL".
You were on patrol.
I was in your tent.
I did not know you.

I saw your pictures.
Your Mother's and Father's.
Your wife, your children.
Your sweetheart.
Your friends.
Miss January.
People you knew and loved.
People who knew and loved you.

I saw your Bible.
Your prayer book
Your cross and beads.
I picked up your mail.
And laid it on your bunk.

I picked up a care package from home
It smelled so good.
It must be filled with lots of goodies,
Packed by loving hands.

I thought when you get back.
I'll have some of this good stuff.
I did not know you.

For two days.
I went to the comm center.
And followed your progress
On the map.

Little colored pins.
were placed.
When you reported your position.
as you made your way.
Through the mountains.

I looked at the contour lines.
And thought how terribly steep.
they were and far in you were.

How difficult that climb.
Must be for you.
But I did not know you.

Then I heard on the radio!
"Contact! Contact! Contact!
Little Gull, Contact!"

The company commander said
Don't worry.
It happens all the time.
They will be all right.
We could hear the gunfire.
When you keyed the handset.

We could hear the explosion!
Of hand grenades.
We heard your last choking words
That sounded like, "GAS!"

I heard your voice!
I did not know you.

Silence.

The radio operator.
Called you again and again!
"Little Gull, Little Gull, sitrep!"
"Little Gull do you hear me?
Little Gull go to secondary frequency."

No answer!
only silence.

A reaction team was put together.
I made sure I was on it.

We flew out as darkness set in.
And landed several miles
From your position.
There was no moon.

In the darkness
We stumbled up one mountain
And down another.
It was too dangerous!
We set in for the night.

I wondered how you were?
What happened to you?
I did not know you.

At first light
We set out climbing up one mountain.
Sliding and falling down another.
We were fourteen.
Carrying weapons and ammo.

You were just six.
Carrying three times as much!

How difficult.
That must have been for you.
We found your position.

I was not prepared.
For what we saw.
All your equipment.
your weapons.
Your radios were gone.

You were strewn about.
Hacked apart.
Tears filled my eyes.
Rage filled my heart.
I gagged and chucked.
I saw you.
But I did not know you.

We called for an airdrop of body bags.
Six bags for six men.
Six bags for six boys
Who became men.
So far from the people in the pictures.
So far from the people in the letters.
So far from those who knew you.
But I did not know you.

I picked you up carefully.
And placed you in the bag.
Piece by piece.
Trying to put the same person.
In the same bag.

We moved out.
Back to the LZ.
I carried you, the smallest.
I carried you.
I felt you.
I smelled you.
I did not know you.

I tried so hard not to drop you.
I tried to keep you.
From hitting the ground.
As we went.
Up and down the mountains.
I could not!
Please forgive me.

The bag ripped.
Blood and body fluids.
Seeped out and over me.
I can still feel it.

I placed you in the chopper.
And flew back with you to the base.

I placed you on a litter.
As if you were still alive.
And watched them roll you away.
I never saw you again,
I did not know you.

All these years.
You have been a part of me.

You have lived with me.
Every hour of every day.
Of every year.
A secret to be kept.
A memory to grow.

pain to be nurtured.
Until the secret was too great.
The memory overwhelming.
The pain unbearable.

I must let you out.
I must let you go.
I must tell the secret.

I will always remember you.
I will always honor you.

I never knew you.
This poem/story was written
By THOMAS E. SHAINLINE.
Charlie Company 68-69

This a copy of Thomas E. Shainline poem that I made so it would be easier to read his great poem.

It can be seen at the link below

http://www.geocities.com/millrat_99/littlegull.html

They were never "without Heroes"

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

scoutrider
12-13-09, 03:15 PM
Good day to you.
I searched this Poem by Tom Shainline and my search brought me here.

"This a copy of Thomas E. Shainline poem that I made so it would be easier to read his great poem.
It can be seen at the link below
http://www.geocities.com/millrat_99/littlegull.html
They were never "without Heroes"
Semper Fidelis
Ricardo"

The address on the posting above is no longer valid.
I searched the poem again and found it on our Harborsite Two website here:
http://www.3rdrecon.org/littlegull.htm
PS: I also note that an error on this page has Tom's last name as Shaline when it is Shainline. I wrote the address on the web site.. do not know if it will go to Steve Shircliff or to jim@4udesigns.com who I tink is Jim Hunter?
At any rate, the new 3rd Recon Harborsite web site is:
http://www.3rdrecon.org/Index4.htm

Semper Fi
scoutrider
bob

Lynn2
04-26-10, 03:50 PM
"Vetter: Although there was some variation, recon's first year in Vietnam had resulted in teams composed of nine men, with the platoon leader or platoon sergeant in command of the patrol. The nine-man composition allowed for the patrol to be divided into three-man teams. The patrol leader, corpsman and primary radio operator would be together in the center team."

I realize this is an old old thread. But I will take the opportunity to disagree with Larry anyway.

The "official book" may have said 9 guys on a Team. But during that first year of VN Recon work the numbers were all over the place. Sometimes 13. Sometimes 4.

The numbers seemed to get smaller the longer I was in-country.

It depended on the mission. And it depended on the number of Teams in the field. And it depended on how many healthy (OK healthy is a very relative term here) guys we had in any given plt.

9 was no more the key than 5 or 10 was.

The Vetter book is very well done. Sure as he said he left a lot out. But what he included was well done.

vipere6
04-26-10, 04:26 PM
This is a great poem. I'm glad you put it on this site