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yellowwing
04-25-07, 03:26 AM
Whether it is FoxNews or MoveOn the Presidential approval rating is at best 1/3. Iraq is THE Central Issue.

Plus or minus 2% how to you convince 200 million we are on the right track? Pounding home that 200 million Americans Hate America really ain't working too good.

Blame the Liberal Media? September 12th 2001, he had America and whole world behind whatever he decided. WTF happened? Now he is blaming Sean Penn and Susan Sarandon?

Really, how do you get 2/3 of your populist back behind the Leader?

10thzodiac
04-25-07, 08:36 AM
Have another big scare ?

semperfi170
04-25-07, 09:26 AM
10thZ: That is a rather cynical answer! :banana:

marinegreen
04-25-07, 09:36 AM
Whether it is FoxNews or MoveOn the Presidential approval rating is at best 1/3. Iraq is THE Central Issue.

Plus or minus 2% how to you convince 200 million we are on the right track? Pounding home that 200 million Americans Hate America really ain't working too good.

Blame the Liberal Media? September 12th 2001, he had America and whole world behind whatever he decided. WTF happened? Now he is blaming Sean Penn and Susan Sarandon?

Really, how do you get 2/3 of your populist back behind the Leader?

I'd bet 3 million would applaude him if he stepped down and took that guy who shoots his buddies, eerrr whats his name again, Oh wait I think its cheney isnt it ? and also if he took that whacky personnel lap dancer of his, Rove !! Ooohhh yeah and lets not forget the woman who also has her nose buried up his azz, I think her name is Rice. I'm certainly certain my Marine family will correct me on these names if I'm wrong, there pretty good about disliking people if they have a diferent opinion on politics..........

:yes: MG

rktect3j
04-25-07, 09:37 AM
This really does come down to several things.

1st. I've never been polled. I don't know anybody who has been polled. Polls lie.

2nd. The left believes in polls, highly. This is why polls tend to show results that lean left, always. Not only does the left believe in polls but they, the left leaners, seek out polls in order to bring the number up or down in their favor.

3rd. As I don't believe in polls, I do believe in watching them for the oddball poll factoid that might piissss the left off when it does not work out so well.

Last factoid. It appears that the overal job approval rating show Bush at 41% and has been stuck there for about 9 months. During that period, according to rasmussen, left leaners favor bush at 15% and disafavor him at about 55% with the rest being somewhere inbetween. The right leaners however give him a favorablity rating of 85% with an unfavorable portion obviously far lower then the left.

So what does that say exactly. My guess is that the Iraq war is prominant on peoples minds but in fact forces the left to poll unfavorably for Bush "overall job approval" rating. Oddly enough it is supposed to be an overall job approval rating and not an Iraq war approval rating. The right tends to disregard the Iraq war and focuses on the entire package when polled. Go figure. This is evident when you look at the overall direction of this country and not just Iraq.

10thzodiac
04-25-07, 10:23 AM
10thZ: That is a rather cynical answer! :banana:
You won't believe what they won't do to get support they need !!!

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/operation_northwoods.htm

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/cuba_mis_cri/621004%20Minutes%20of%20Meeting%20of%20Special.pdf

OLE SARG
04-25-07, 10:32 AM
First thing is "polls suck" and can be made to make any point you desire.

We have too many whining, liberal *******s out there who still think "cut and run" (bones pelosi, harry "****head" reid, jane kerry, dickhead durbin, swimmer kennedy, etc.) is the way to go. When they wake up with ahab in their backyard they might think differently but until then we are stuck with what we got.

If ahab offends you, call the aclu - they'll give you a hand.

SEMPER FI,

jetdawgg
04-25-07, 10:49 AM
How about telling the truth for a change?:usmc:

rktect3j
04-25-07, 10:56 AM
How about telling the truth for a change?:usmc:
How about it? I'd love for the MSM to try that bit.

jetdawgg
04-25-07, 11:11 AM
How about it? I'd love for the MSM to try that bit.

From the Jessica Lynch and Tillman stories, it (truth?) was passed to them by the administration

yellowwing
04-25-07, 11:14 AM
I predict if it comes down to brass tacks, they will blame Rumsfeld on Tillman~Lynch.

bigdog43701
04-25-07, 11:17 AM
just quicl question for everyone...
Harry REID said the war is "lost".

Who won?

yellowwing
04-25-07, 11:18 AM
Its up to us to decide if Reid is the Walter Cronkite of Tet Offensive of this generation.

jetdawgg
04-25-07, 11:19 AM
just quicl question for everyone...
Harry REID said the war is "lost".

Who won?

HAL ands XOM:flag:

bigdog43701
04-25-07, 12:47 PM
jett...earlier you posted "try telling the truth". haven't you figured out that ALL polititions lie?

jetdawgg
04-25-07, 05:02 PM
jett...earlier you posted "try telling the truth". haven't you figured out that ALL polititions lie?

Some lies are grander than others

marinegreen
04-25-07, 05:35 PM
jett...earlier you posted "try telling the truth". haven't you figured out that ALL polititions lie?


FIANALLY, There is another on this board who also realizes that politicians lie:yes: , I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who accepted reality......................

:D MG

bigdog43701
04-25-07, 05:54 PM
jet...you listed HAL and XOM as winners..you forget three

1. Syria
2. Iran
3. Al-Qaida

jetdawgg
04-25-07, 06:00 PM
jet...you listed HAL and XOM as winners..you forget three

1. Syria
2. Iran
3. Al-Qaida

We are only fighting AQ:usmc:

10thzodiac
04-25-07, 06:12 PM
FIANALLY, There is another on this board who also realizes that politicians lie:yes: , I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who accepted reality......................

:D MG

Hey !:devious:

bigdog43701
04-25-07, 06:18 PM
jet...been watching the news lately? freedom fighters coming in from syria...IEDs coming in from iran. AQ lilled 9 troopers from the 82d and injured 20 yesterday. might surprise you to know there are several areas in iraq that Marines no longer wear helmet because the locals trust the Marines and the Marines trust them.

i said it before...with what we know now should we be there..probably not, BUT we are there we HAVE TO FINISH the job.

mark king
04-25-07, 07:42 PM
This really does come down to several things.

1st. I've never been polled. I don't know anybody who has been polled. Polls lie.

2nd. The left believes in polls, highly. This is why polls tend to show results that lean left, always. Not only does the left believe in polls but they, the left leaners, seek out polls in order to bring the number up or down in their favor.

3rd. As I don't believe in polls, I do believe in watching them for the oddball poll factoid that might piissss the left off when it does not work out so well.

Last factoid. It appears that the overal job approval rating show Bush at 41% and has been stuck there for about 9 months. During that period, according to rasmussen, left leaners favor bush at 15% and disafavor him at about 55% with the rest being somewhere inbetween. The right leaners however give him a favorablity rating of 85% with an unfavorable portion obviously far lower then the left.

So what does that say exactly. My guess is that the Iraq war is prominant on peoples minds but in fact forces the left to poll unfavorably for Bush "overall job approval" rating. Oddly enough it is supposed to be an overall job approval rating and not an Iraq war approval rating. The right tends to disregard the Iraq war and focuses on the entire package when polled. Go figure. This is evident when you look at the overall direction of this country and not just Iraq.


well said, how can you poll 600-1000 people and say that is what a country
of 300 mil. are all thinking.

Sgt Leprechaun
04-25-07, 09:32 PM
Exactly. You can't. That's why 'governing by polling', like Clinton & Co did, will always lead to disaster. Crimeny, polls are merely sampling of the population, and almost always end up being wrong, or slanted in the direction of whomever is giving the poll. Believe it or not, I HAVE been polled, once, about a year ago, by Washington Post. (I'm not a subscriber). It was certainly an interesting experience, but the polltaker was a 19 year old intern from GW on a poly/sci assignment....who was avowedly anti-bush. But, hell, SHE sounded cute :) So I talked to her.

Again, tho, IMO, those who govern by polls are doomed to failure.

davblay
04-25-07, 09:40 PM
I believe that after the election, next Nov 2008, when the new president is sworn in (no matter who it is, what party or whatever) the war will end within a year! Then I want to hear all you pro BUSH Marines explain that!

Didn't the war end when Saddam was hanged? He is gone, he can't come back to power, so------WTF? :confused:

Sgt Leprechaun
04-25-07, 09:55 PM
How will the war end 'within a year' after the next prez is sworn in?

And, bigger question, will it end with Marines scrambling to get on the last helo out of Bagdad, or will it end with a transistional handing over of duties to an Iraq that can at least stand on it's own two feet?

I think that is the burning question.

marinegreen
04-25-07, 09:57 PM
I believe that after the election, next Nov 2008, when the new president is sworn in (no matter who it is, what party or whatever) the war will end within a year! Then I want to hear all you pro BUSH Marines explain that!

Didn't the war end when Saddam was hanged? He is gone, he can't come back to power, so------WTF? :confused:


Cuz most sheep believe bush when he says that there are only terrorist in Iraq and if we leave there then we will be terrorized again, I guess those here on the home front think that there are no terrorist cells living here amongst us and are just waiting in the wings when we drop our guard like always and then they'll attack again. And when it does happen,(which it will) watch the bush-bots say:see we told you if we left Iraq that we would be hit again.>>>>Now for some of you who might think I want us to be hit again or you think I'm not a true MARINE your DEAD WRONG, I'm just stating the truth<<<<<

:yes: MG

Sgt Leprechaun
04-25-07, 10:01 PM
I'm not a 'bush bot' (altho I do think the term is funny....kinda like "ChimpyBushhitler"), I do believe we are gonna be hit again. Not a matter of 'if' but when.

Bushbot. Hilarious.

davblay
04-25-07, 10:05 PM
Sgt Lep, the how is simple, they will declare victory and pull out. The Civil War will run it's course, then the US will negotiate with whatever government they put in place for the oil we want! It ain't rocket science man, it's fact! Also it may very well come to helos carring out the last few Americans in Iraq! It worked before, with a republican President, didn't it? After all we are in full trade agreement with Viet Nam now aren't we? Some how I can see history repeating itself here!!

Sgt Leprechaun
04-25-07, 10:15 PM
True, in some points. However, while we are in a trade agreement with the Vietnamese, at what cost?

Meaning, at what cost nationally? At what cost in lives? In our reputation?

The communists could be checked and contained, to a degree, domino theory be damned (altho it did happen). Can AQ? I doubt it. These 'people' only respect overwhelming force. They are very much 'terminator like', in that they can't be reasoned with, they can't be bargained with. They absolutely 'will---not----stop' until we are dead. Or converted.

That's just my opinion, mind you. I hope to god I'm wrong, and the lion can lay down with the lamb and all that, swords into plowshears.

Me? I'm gonna sharpen my sword.

Zulu 36
04-25-07, 10:51 PM
Prez Reagan beat the commies the best way - economically. Communism and socialism cannot last financially. Eventually they will fall. Ronnie forced the issue with the Soviet Union with military build ups and the Star Wars program.

However, Communism is a political system, not religious. There is a certain amount of logic involved in any political system. The Communists still wanted to survive. Advance their ideology, yes, but try to live through doing so.

Religious movements, such as Islam, are not political. They are driven by zealots who generally do not use logic to make decisions. They use their own (or imam's) interpretations of the Koran whether or not it makes sense to anyone else - even another Muslim (hence the Sunni, Shi'ia, Wahabbi, etc, divisions). Living through the fight is optional since you get to go to paradise, etc, if killed. Got to be a better place than many of the dumps Muslims live in now, so might as well get killed.

Christianity was the same way centuries past. Christ's way or the highway (actually burning at the stake). Christianity is less of a factor in politics now as fewer zealots are allowed to control the religion (begun during the reformation changes). Northern Ireland is one of the few places in the world that has a serious Christianity-based political problem and even there it has slowed down in the past 20-years or so.

Most Christians chose to use the many parts of the Bible that promote peaceful behaviors. Few parts of the Koran encourage peace, with limited exceptions between Muslims which doesn't seem to be a requirement.

Political-system based governments can be controlled to a certain extent via diplomacy and economics. Religious-based governments cannot be so controlled. They must either be controlled from within, or destroyed from without.

We can make deals with the Vietnamese and have some control over them economically because they are a political government. They want/need our money to live.

We cannot make such deals with Islamic religious governments who do not want to play nice with infidels. They don't care if they live or die as long as we die too because God thinks that is a good thing.

davblay
04-25-07, 10:54 PM
True, in some points. However, while we are in a trade agreement with the Vietnamese, at what cost?

DAMN THE COST!! The bottom line is what's important! Isn't that the way our leaders think?

10thzodiac
04-25-07, 11:24 PM
Cuz most sheep believe bush when he says that there are only terrorist in Iraq and if we leave there then we will be terrorized again, I guess those here on the home front think that there are no terrorist cells living here amongst us and are just waiting in the wings when we drop our guard like always and then they'll attack again. And when it does happen,(which it will) watch the bush-bots say:see we told you if we left Iraq that we would be hit again.>>>>Now for some of you who might think I want us to be hit again or you think I'm not a true MARINE your DEAD WRONG, I'm just stating the truth<<<<<

:yes: MG


Hmmm, thought provoking. Lets ask ourselves, does AQ really wants to unite the American people with another attack on America ?

DougRagan
04-26-07, 12:33 AM
It isn't that difficult to see really, in fact someone listed a good example in this thread. Lynch and Tillman. People hear about how these stories were twisted. We were given a huge hero rescue story about Lynch and were told that Tillman was killed by the enemy. Both of these turned out to be a big stretch.

So what happens? The entirety of the blame is placed on GWB. We are told of the shame of the Bush administration that gave us this false story. Never mind that he was repeating the info that was given to him. Never mind that the misinformation actually started by commanders who made mistakes. Everything that goes wrong is blamed on Bush, regardless of his actual fault.

This goes on and on of course. Kerry spent some of his campaign blaming Bush for the price of oil. He of course did not talk about the massive increase in demand from China and India. Is everyone aware that China's fuel consumption increased over 9% last year from the year before? Guess what that does to the price of oil when OPEC nations aren't upgrading their pumps. He also paid no attention to the fact that a huge amount of the profits the oil companies are making are actually being spent on research and refining upgrades.

Bush was blamed for the economic recession. He was blamed despite the fact that the NBER said that the recession may have begun in 2000 and at the very least had its roots in 1999 and 2000. But somehow, Bush is given little credit to the massive economic growth that has occured since 2003. There are countless articles from economic minds giving much of the credit to the well targeted tax cuts, but little is mentioned on the MSM.

Very little is said of the actual progress in Iraq. There are political efforts there to bring the Sunnis and Shiites together. These efforts have had great success, especially considering the history. But the MSM only reports on the suicide bombers.

Approval ratings are based on perceptions, not facts.

Sgt Leprechaun
04-26-07, 10:08 AM
Zulu, that was one DAMN fine post. Take a bow.

USMCmailman
04-26-07, 11:57 AM
Most important thing said on this thread:

ALL POLITICIANS LIE !! By the way, you can not be a politician if you don't lie!

Well-----maybe Reagan! I do not understand why such a good man would want to be President? :confused:

yellowwing
04-26-07, 02:13 PM
Well-----maybe Reagan! I do not understand why such a good man would want to be President? :confused:
Because we needed him! Mr Peanut really goofed things up.