Ahmadinejad offers to hold direct talks with U.S. President Bush

[jetdawgg]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=t11B vAlign=top colSpan=2>By The Associated Press</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>Iranian President...

[marinemom]

Okay - the ding-dong says he is ready to talk...............riiiiiiiiiiight!

Am I the only person who looks at him and thinks Sonny Bono is the 70s?

[drumcorpssnare]

...IF...President Bush agrees to talk with old monkey-face...I hope he walks up to him, offers to shake hands, and says, "President Pajama-head, I'm pleased to meetcha!":D
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[10thzodiac]

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent".

This is a quote by Salvador Hardin, a character in Issac Asimov's Foundation. Salvor Hardin uses this saying to mean that violence is such a useless option that only the incompetent would use it, and even they would only use it as their last resort. He feels that the incompetent are eventually forced to resort to violence because a better solution remains outside of their grasp.

[Scottyva]

So Ahmadinejad wants to meet with President Bush?? The Iranians must want to rub our face in something....... Why else would he want to meet us unless he wants to embarrass the USA.

I wouldnt say he looks like Sonny Bono but maybe Gomez Addams?

[drumcorpssnare]

10thz- What is the last refuge of the competent?

Please tell me how to reason with a person, or people who are deadly violent murderers, who do not wish to be reasoned with?

Do you suggest we forego violence, and simply "turn the other cheek"?

10thz, when they kill one of "us", and there are no consequences, or we attempt to reason, or use non-violent means, "they" turn around and kill another of "us."

Jeez, do the math! If that keeps up, pretty soon there's none of "us" and lots of "them."

I would still like a direct, concise answer...in your own words as to a solution to the situation in Iraq. Tell us please, not only the choices you would make, but also the consequences you perceive, of those choices.

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[rktect3j]

This nut has asked for direct talks with Bush many times before and always he wants it to be telivised as if it's some sort of primary debate.

What a freakin idiot this guy is. I am sure that in some circles this gets him a few points but the rest of the average IQ or better countries know just what this is about. PR. Of course the US/Bush will refuse. It is not in anybodys best interest to go on this game show.

Too bad so sad. I just wish pinheadajad would STFU already.

[rktect3j]

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent".

This is a quote by Salvador Hardin, a character in Issac Asimov's Foundation. Salvor Hardin uses this saying to mean that violence is such a useless option that only the incompetent would use it, and even they would only use it as their last resort. He feels that the incompetent are eventually forced to resort to violence because a better solution remains outside of their grasp.
And with all that he is still not correct in his remarks. Amazing.

It requires utopian thinking on all parties involved in order for this to work itself out properly. A perfect world situation.

Oh wait, if we already lived in this utopia we would have no actual need for this quote to begin with which makes it all the more ridiculous.

[Scottyva]

Where is Reagan when the world needs him? We cannot reason with fanatics under any circumstances.

I agree with drumcorpssnare 100%. The only way to 'talk" with the Iranians is through strength not from a timid position as some would like the US to day.

[HOLM]

LOL. Hitler wanted to sit and talk with FDR a couple times too..

[jetdawgg]

This is where the administration has made some mistakes. They have allowed countries like Iran to take the lead in moral and civil behavior.

Even if this is a BS gesture, the other nations of the world may not see it like that. They currently see America as a violent, hostile and isolated state. Using war and torture methods vice diplomacy to mediate issues.

[drumcorpssnare]

jetdawgg- Please share with us your thoughts on how anything Iran has done in the last 20 yrs., is either moral or civil.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[jetdawgg]

jetdawgg- Please share with us your thoughts on how anything Iran has done in the last 20 yrs., is either moral or civil.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

Drum, they have recently released the British Marines. Giving them the upper hand as the world sees things. They are not at war while the USA is in two wars and itching for more.

When the world sees USA they see Abu Gharib, GTMO, Iraq sabre rattling with Iran. Which looks to you like they have the moral authority currently?

[drumcorpssnare]

jetdawgg- First, Iran had no business capturing those Brits. Apparently, the "time & date" locked GPS proved that. Iran released the Brits because they did not wish to incurr the consequences of not releasing them.
True, Iran is not at war. Technically they are neutral. Yet Iran is supplying hi-tech IED's, weapons, and money to the Iraqi insurgents. That's moral?
I think the rest of the world sees the U.S. as rich, comfortable, arrogant "Ugly Americans." Bottom line- they envy our wealth and power. Sucks to be them.
Finally, our motive in the Middle East is ultimately peace and democracy. Freedom from the fear of tyranny. Iran on the other hand, controls it's people through fear.
The few who hold power in the Middle East, do not wish to relinquish that power to the masses in the form of a democracy.

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[jinelson]

by jetappeaser - When the world sees USA they see Abu Gharib, GTMO, Iraq sabre rattling with Iran. Which looks to you like they have the moral authority currently?

Well certainly the barbarian murderers and beheaders of civilians!

Jim

[jetdawgg]

jetdawgg- First, Iran had no business capturing those Brits. Apparently, the "time & date" locked GPS proved that. Iran released the Brits because they did not wish to incurr the consequences of not releasing them.
True, Iran is not at war. Technically they are neutral. Yet Iran is supplying hi-tech IED's, weapons, and money to the Iraqi insurgents. That's moral?
I think the rest of the world sees the U.S. as rich, comfortable, arrogant "Ugly Americans." Bottom line- they envy our wealth and power. Sucks to be them.
Finally, our motive in the Middle East is ultimately peace and democracy. Freedom from the fear of tyranny. Iran on the other hand, controls it's people through fear.
The few who hold power in the Middle East, do not wish to relinquish that power to the masses in the form of a democracy.

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

Drum, I agree with a lot of what you state. The world though is larger than the MENA and they certainly are not a part of the dwiindling "Coaliton of the Willing"

[rktect3j]

Drum, they have recently released the British Marines. Giving them the upper hand as the world sees things. They are not at war while the USA is in two wars and itching for more.

When the world sees USA they see Abu Gharib, GTMO, Iraq sabre rattling with Iran. Which looks to you like they have the moral authority currently?
I know that I use a lot of generalizations myself but I seriously doubt you can speak to as how the world sees us. Could you be more clear as to who the world is here?

[jetdawgg]

I know that I use a lot of generalizations myself but I seriously doubt you can speak to as how the world sees us. Could you be more clear as to who the world is here?

China, Eur, Major portions of Africa. The UN. CALA. See the value of the dollar lately?

[drumcorpssnare]

Let's not forget, that the world's view of America changes, like the swing of a pendulum, based on "their" needs, or lack thereof.
When Europe "needed" our help against the Central Powers during WW I, we were saviours.
When poor, drought-ridden, starving countries "needed" our corn, wheat, and rice...we were the good guys.
When the future of the modern world was threatened by the Axis Powers, America again came to the rescue.

Now, a small but pwerful, and very visible group of terrorists is attempting to foment a world-wide war to kill "the infidels."

....and "we" are the bad guys?

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[10thzodiac]

I know that I use a lot of generalizations myself but I seriously doubt you can speak to as how the world sees us. Could you be more clear as to who the world is here?

Friday, June 24, 2005[/URL]

[URL="http://www.economist.com/images/20050625/CUS159.gif"]http://www.economist.com/images/20050625/CUS159.gif (http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4105223)

[10thzodiac]

China, Eur, Major portions of Africa. The UN. CALA. See the value of the dollar lately?

I just went to a financial seminar last evening and this was in a brochure given to me:

THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING DOLLAR:

1970 - $1.00

1980 - .47

1990 - .30

2003 - .21

2007 -

Source: US Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics

[drumcorpssnare]

10thz- When I put a dollar in my pocket, then immediately reach back in, and all I pull out is a penny.....then I'll worry.:D
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[rktect3j]

Friday, June 24, 2005[/URL]

[URL="http://www.economist.com/images/20050625/CUS159.gif"]http://www.economist.com/images/20050625/CUS159.gif (http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4105223)
It took you a half hour to create that image? Jeezaloo.

Seriously, what are the stats for backup purposes on that? Please provide me a link as to the questions asked and what the people polled thought was the main reason for their anxiety over there disfavor for us. Cuz inquiry minds would like to know.

[rktect3j]

I just went to a financial seminar last evening and this was in a brochure given to me:

THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING DOLLAR:

1970 - $1.00

1980 - .47

1990 - .30

2003 - .21

2007 -

Source: US Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics
Now there is some funny schiat.

Of course a dollar bought more in 1970. I think in 1980 a dollar got me four candy bars. Today a dollar gets me about 2. But, luckily, I in my profession earn 6 times as much as I would have back then.

The problem with stats is that they lie 100% of the time.

[syndicalist702]

Let's not forget, that the world's view of America changes, like the swing of a pendulum, based on "their" needs, or lack thereof.
When Europe "needed" our help against the Central Powers during WW I, we were saviours.
When poor, drought-ridden, starving countries "needed" our corn, wheat, and rice...we were the good guys.
When the future of the modern world was threatened by the Axis Powers, America again came to the rescue.

Now, a small but pwerful, and very visible group of terrorists is attempting to foment a world-wide war to kill "the infidels."

....and "we" are the bad guys?

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

Gee, I dunno, how many CIA directed coups d'etat have been conducted against democratically-elected leaders and replaced them with despotic right-wing regimes for nefarious reasons? Have a look-see.

Particular examples:
Election intervention - Italy - 1948 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_general_elections%2C_1948)
Operation Ajax - Iran - 1953 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax)
Operation PBSUCCESS - Guatemala - 1954 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_PBSUCCESS)
CIA-Hussein Connection - Iraq - 1959 (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2849.htm)
Overthrow of Sukarno - Indonesia - 1965-1966 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overthrow_of_Sukarno)
Operation Gladio - Greece - 1967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Greece)
Coup - Chile - 1973 (the one that installed Pinochet) (http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/09/19/us.cia.chile.ap/)
Salvadoran Civil War - El Salvador - 1980-1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Salvador_Civil_War)
Iran-Conta Affair - Iran and Nicaragua - 1980's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair)
Coup - Fiji - 1987 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timoci_Bavadra)
Botched elections - Bulgaria and Albania - 1990 (http://members.aol.com/bblum6/bulgaria.htm)
Election interference - El Salvador - 2004 (http://www.countercurrents.org/us-lucas100105.htm)

Articles concerning this issue:
http://www.whoscounting.net/PentagCIandCyber.htm
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-overclass.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/MakingHeadsRoll.html
http://www.alternet.org/audits/39416/?page=1
http://www.intellnet.org/resources/american_terrorism/ChronologyofTerror.html
I know the "Blame America" cliche is coming, but when is American going to be a grown up and own up. Our government has some 'splaining to do. :sick:


U.S. State Department Policy Planning Study #23, 1948:
"Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity [U.S. military-economic supremacy].... To do so, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and day-dreaming.... We should cease to talk about vague and...unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better."
— George Kennan
Director of Policy Planning
U.S. State Department
1948