View Full Version : Should this quote apply today?
drumcorpssnare
04-24-07, 01:55 PM
Abraham Lincoln, arguably one of our nation's greatest Presidents, spoke the following words, during The Great Rebellion.
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged."
Do you think this quote should apply in America today?
My opinion...The Civil War was wildly popular in it's early days. In time Americans on both sides of the conflict came to understand that it would be a long, hard, bloody war. Lincoln recieved death threats. His top Generals ignored him; even called him a "gorilla." He was held in contempt by many, many people. But, he stayed the course. Lincoln led us through one of the most difficult trials in our nation's history. He may have come across as a "hick" to many, but he was a very wise man.
His quote, above...was very wise as well. I believe it should apply today.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:
SkilletsUSMC
04-24-07, 02:16 PM
I vote exiled...
To the middle east.:D
I couldn't agree with you more!!!
Mytcbra96
04-24-07, 03:26 PM
I also think it should apply and Quickly!!
10thzodiac
04-24-07, 04:07 PM
Abraham Lincoln, arguably one of our nation's greatest Presidents, spoke the following words, during The Great Rebellion.
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged."
Do you think this quote should apply in America today?
My opinion...The Civil War was wildly popular in it's early days. In time Americans on both sides of the conflict came to understand that it would be a long, hard, bloody war. Lincoln recieved death threats. His top Generals ignored him; even called him a "gorilla." He was held in contempt by many, many people. But, he stayed the course. Lincoln led us through one of the most difficult trials in our nation's history. He may have come across as a "hick" to many, but he was a very wise man.
His quote, above...was very wise as well. I believe it should apply today.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:
You might get your wish !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukYQgcLZV68
rktect3j
04-24-07, 04:59 PM
One more worthless youtube.
Of course it should still apply. Lincoln was a common sense guy who made a lot of sense. No wonder he was one of the greatest presidents ever.
10thzodiac
04-24-07, 05:09 PM
One more worthless youtube.
Of course it should still apply. Lincoln was a common sense guy who made a lot of sense. No wonder he was one of the greatest presidents ever.
The DARK SIDE
of
Abe Lincoln
http://www.worldfreeinternet.net/news/nws198.htm
yellowwing
04-24-07, 05:10 PM
False
FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/article415.html)
But Lincoln never said that. The conservative author who touched off the misquotation frenzy, J. Michael Waller, concedes that the words are his, not Lincoln's. Waller says he never meant to put quote marks around them, and blames an editor for the mistake and the failure to correct it. We also note other serious historical errors in the Waller article containing the bogus quote.
outlaw3179
04-24-07, 05:16 PM
Still a good Quote. True .
10thzodiac
04-24-07, 10:00 PM
Still a good Quote. True .
Marine, do you not know what you are saying, you can only get away silencing loyal opposition a totalitarian government, do you want a dictator ?
If so, may I suggest Russia or Cuba http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif
Sheesh, think man !
semperfi170
04-24-07, 10:35 PM
10th,
Why do you mention Russia? I mean after all keep up with the times, they have an elected legislature and president. Just because their democracy is not like ours you want to send somebody there.
BTW: Even the media has had articles that show errrors in Wikepedia, one of the sites you have pulled quotes from. I believe if you are going to use quotes to validate an arguemnt, then due diligence in the research and validated references as in the rules of debate would be more forceful. There is too much garbage included in a lot of the stuff posted on the web. :D
10thzodiac
04-25-07, 07:19 AM
10th,
Why do you mention Russia? I mean after all keep up with the times, they have an elected legislature and president. Just because their democracy is not like ours you want to send somebody there.
BTW: Even the media has had articles that show errrors in Wikepedia, one of the sites you have pulled quotes from. I believe if you are going to use quotes to validate an arguemnt, then due diligence in the research and validated references as in the rules of debate would be more forceful. There is too much garbage included in a lot of the stuff posted on the web. :D
What is your definition of keeping up with the times, Russia a democracy ? Mr. Putin doesn't know when to step down, his former presidential opposition is in jail. If you still believe Russia is democracy then would you accept this analogy, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><ST1:place><S style="text-line-through: double">Russia</S></ST1:place></st1:country-region><st1:country-region><ST1:place> China</ST1:place></st1:country-region> (PRC) ?<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:p></O:p>
I'm sure Wikipedia has errors, like all publications it is up to the reader to accept what he or she wants to believe, not the author. Consider it open minded free will.
drumcorpssnare
04-25-07, 08:05 AM
Okay, I fell for the "I saw it on the internet, so it must be true." My mistake.
I don't excuse the fact that I should have researched this further, but I do know enough about Lincoln to know he would not be happy with anyone who undermined the military or willingly damaged troop morale.
10thz- As for your link to the dark side of Lincoln, nothing new there. Lincoln, like most Americans of the time, was a racial bigot. The "N" word was commonplace in the vernacular, and as a re-enactor, I used the word to accurately portray Civil War history.
True, Lincoln waited until Antietam to use his trump card- The Emancipation Proclomation, because he feared Britain actively siding with the Confederates.
And I have lost track of how many times I have related to black Americans Lincoln's plan to "purchase" the slaves from slaveholders, and send them to either Central America or Africa.
I have given many a class to students on the Great Rebellion, and have always stressed the truth that the causes of the war were, essentially states rights and nullification. The slavery issue was almost in the background as it relates to cause. In fact, many Union regiments threatened to desert and return home, if they were in fact, fighting to free the slaves.
And now, back to the central issue of this question. Is it acceptable for our politicians to publicly make statements that infer a lack of confidence in the troops, in their will or ability to triumph in a difficult situation, etc.?
I think it's despicable.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:
semperfi170
04-25-07, 08:16 AM
Yes it is despicable! But as long as it will get them face and/or voice time (publicity) they will continue to do it! What they say doesn't have to be supported by a lot of facts, just the facts they want to use to support their viewpoint, no matter how flimsy the facts. I believe a lot of this has to do with the constant media exposure of what goes on daily with politicians.
Yes 10thZ, it happens on both sides of the aisle!!! So, don't get self righteous and think you are being attacked.:devious:
10thzodiac
04-25-07, 08:16 AM
Drums, let me defer your interrogatory to someone who knows far better than I or you: <br />
<br />
From 1997 to 2000, he was commander-in-chief of the United States Central Command, in charge of all American...
yellowwing
04-25-07, 08:18 AM
Lincoln had a terrible Leadership Challenge. He did very well preserving the Union. "In this Temple, as in the hearts of the people, for whom he saved the Union, the memory of Abraham Lincoln is enshrined forever".
I remember entering the Lincoln Memorial. It really is a holy place. Every one was quietly whispering inside.
Right now its just public opinion that is breaking away.
outlaw3179
04-25-07, 11:48 AM
lol..WTF Over? Ive got 10th telling me to think? lol...negative devil dog. check your fire and redirect. Your telling me to think because you copy and paste crap after crap , that make you a philosopher? Negative Aristotle , Keep living in your fantasy world and stay the f*** out of mine.
If Lincoln didn't really say that...I will.
Sgt Leprechaun
04-25-07, 07:07 PM
The quote is applicable. As a Civil War historian, I can tell you that Lincoln not only believed it, he enforced it with "copperheads", most notably Congressman Vandallingham, who he deported south.
Lincoln also suspended habeus corpus in many areas to combat what he believed was sedition. There is a famous case, Merriman v US, wherein Roger Brooke Taney (Chief Justice USSC) ordered the military, and Lincoln, to free Merriman from jail. Lincoln basically said, "Mr Taney has made his decision, now let him enforce it".
In the great scheme of things, Lincoln was proven correct. In his own time, tho, he had as many brickbats thrown at him as the current president, and as troublesome a congress. Except Lincoln had more means at his disposal to combat them.
You want to talk about 'loss of rights'? Check out those who lived in Maryland and along the railroad lines of the B&O, all the way to New York. Those people lost rights, and were imprisoned for far less than our anti war left wing sedition folks do today. I smirk when I hear people on the left whine about losing their 'rights'.