NCO views on officer's haircuts

[OneWay]

Image question. I'm a mustang and wonder what attitudes NCOs today generally have about officer's haircuts. I think it's true that enlisted Marines generally wear shorter haircuts and seems to be a motivational tactic among the NCO ranks - DIs especially. When I first became an officer, I used to wear a full-on horseshoe. Seems to be a mostly staff NCO cut now. I thought I was maybe presenting an image that reflected my enlisted background, though I was not trying to look intimidating. I'm thinking of doing this again when the weather warms up.

[yellowwing]

Whatever cut that enhances your Command Presence. I've always had the impression that Officers judge each other more harshly than Enlisted do.

[ssgtt32]

:marine: Whatever you want sir, too hell with everyone else!:beer: :cry:

[10thzodiac]

My first outfit after training was an arty battery that had a inter-service Captain from the army commanding. He had a regular civilian hair-cut, medium on the sides.

Nobody in the regiment could hit old am-tracks on a regimental shoot (Operation Green Light) with direct fire using 105mm tracers, he and Mike battery's CO bore-sighted our howitzer and punched a hole right through an am-track, then another though the same hole http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif

He always wore tropicals or greens, with his p!ss-cutter jaunted slightly off center with the middle folded slightly to one side with a little dip at the back. He looked cool, but thought he was God himself and didn't talk to anyone below the rank of gunny, I always thought of him as being an aloof ******* and felt my hair should be no shorter than his !

We were forced once a week to uncover in formation and marched down to the barber shop to get skinners under the watchful eyes of our platoon sergeants. Once, of of the cannoneers was repeatedly told to get back in the barbers chair that his hair wasn't short enough and he got p!ssed-off and told the barber to shave it all off ! His dumb-ass platoon sergeant got p!ssed at him for that too and promised him every sh!t detail that came up.

Most of guys tried to grow a little hair so they wouldn't be shunned as Marines by California girls. It happened !!!

The C.O. should set the example for all in his command http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

BTW, scuttlebutt had it, that Captain had to resign his commission for theft and wound up as a manager in an Oceanside grocery store. I personally saw him and the gunny loading blankets into their cars one weekend. The next Captain almost got into trouble for all the stuff that was missing, until they figured out it wasn't him. I seen that gunny in Okinawa years later, still a jerk, like his Captain buddy.

[davblay]

I seen that gunny in Okinawa years later, still a jerk, like his Captain buddy.

If it walks like a duck-------- That Gunny might have been the brains behind that sh*t! The Army Officers are not known for thier ability to challenge the SNCO's of the Corps!

Once one always one, right?

[hmckinley]

Image question. I'm a mustang and wonder what attitudes NCOs today generally have about officer's haircuts. I think it's true that enlisted Marines generally wear shorter haircuts and seems to be a motivational tactic among the NCO ranks - DIs especially. When I first became an officer, I used to wear a full-on horseshoe. Seems to be a mostly staff NCO cut now. I thought I was maybe presenting an image that reflected my enlisted background, though I was not trying to look intimidating. I'm thinking of doing this again when the weather warms up.
Once a Marine starts personalizing other than "His Rank", then the whole image of the Marine Corp's will go down the drain. My decision to retire on twenty instead of putting thirty in was based on this, seen too many standard's being set other than Marine Green. The officer's will get sapped wearing the shiny brass in combat, that's the reason in nam they didn't wear them, their troops knew who they were. If all Officer's could be distinguished by their longer hair, "get the picture"??

[10thzodiac]

If it walks like a duck-------- That Gunny might have been the brains behind that sh*t! The Army Officers are not known for thier ability to challenge the SNCO's of the Corps!

Once one always one, right?

Agreed about the NCO thing, but I distinctly remember having privy to the battery's SRB's and that gunny's GCT was literally lower than plant life, but that gunny could make you wish you were never born seven different ways to Sunday. He was an E-6 acting as battery gunny then; later in Okinawa, he was an E-7.

I will never forget the Captain and the gunny loading brand new blankets into their automobile trunks. I understood the new Captain never did an inventory before he accepted the command and allegedly there was allot more than just blankets missing, scuttlebutt had it BC Scopes and .45's too.

The New Captain was a great guy, I never knew his history but he had a full head of thick gray hair. Captain Smith treated all of us Marines like we were his sons. If nobody was around, you could talk to him without going through the chain of command, I did more than once.

We had this real naive good hearted kid that everybody was fcuking with and a platoon sergeant who thought he was a fcuk-up waiting to happen. Well, someone stole his bus money to go home on leave just before shipping out for Okinawa. Captain Smith bought him a ticket and drove him to the bus station and put him on the bus himself so he wouldn't get lost.

Everybody was stealing that Marines clothes and equipment and he was always getting into trouble for it. Once, while operating my PRC-9 for the former army Captain behind our howitzers in the field, this Marine was carrying all his equipment around during his cannoneering duties, he looked like a wandering gypsy with everything tied and hanging including his sleeping bag with comm wire. The Captain called him over and when this Marine came over, he set down a canteen he was holding on the ground and gave the CO a real snappy salute in the field http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/34.gif, the CO asked him how come he was carrying everything on his back ? He replied, that his platoon commander ordered him to do it. The Captain asked him why ? He replied, so he wouldn't loose anything. The CO then told him that he was watching him and that he see's that he's getting squared away and to carry on. With tears of appreciation streaming down his cheeks for the Captains kind words, he gave the Captain another salute and did an about face, and marched off. After a few feet he realized that he had forgot his canteen that he set down http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/34.gif and then sheepishly came back to retrieve it. The Captain did his best not to notice.

Sad.

Probably a gunny now http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/27.gif

Just joking, LOL

[bootlace15]

To anyone thinking they are above and beyond the Corp,simply shave it and walk backwards.

bootlace15 out

[Zulu 36]

I can't remember a Marine officer who came even close to pushing the max hair length. Some wore their hair a little on the longer side of regulation, most were in the middle or on the shorter side.

I knew more SNCOs who pushed the max length, including a SSgt who literally had eight inches of hair on top. He was balding and grew his remaining hair long to hide it. He was very clever in how he combed his hair as he looked 100% regulation with or without a cover. He was a very good SNCO otherwise, just a little vain.

I think an officer should set the example, of course. But the regs give a little leeway and anyone can use that leeway, including officers. It seems to be the style now for most Marines to wear high n' tights. When I was in (71-78), it was the style to keep hair a little closer to max regs in most units. Personally, I wore mine just a little longer than a high n' tight, but well within regs.

These days I'd be the guy with eight-inches of comb over ;).

[yellowwing]

Redeploy follicles? :D

Where did I see that one about an NCO shouldn't have hair longer than a matchstick?

[echo3oscar1833]

In Amtracs, we were all required to have high and tights, every monday, freshly cut. Personally I always liked about a inch on top, and razored to the skin on the side down to the skin. To me it looked motivating, and was what to Corps wanted. I always told myself that a Marine with good haircut, was squared away. We were taught in tracks if you had anything other than a high and tight you were a shi^bird. As far as officers our CO Captian Harris was a Mustang, and he was the one who set the hair regs, he always had the same haircut as the enlisted. He said it was good for moral, and motivation within the unit. Also we couldnt have mustaches. That was the rule from the First Sergeant, he hated mustaches. He used to yell at guys coming back from TAD that had them.
:p

[OneWay]

Thanks to all for the responses. Sounds like 10thzodiac and echo3oscar1833 reinforce my belief that officers should wear the same cut they impose on their Marines, but I was surprised to hear there were platoon Sgts that forced haircuts on Marines outside of bootcamp.

I wasn't real clear on what hmckinley meant by
Once a Marine starts personalizing other than "His Rank", then the whole image of the Marine Corp's will go down the drain. My decision to retire on twenty instead of putting thirty in was based on this

Not trying to argue with you, I was just puzzled as to what advice you were sharing?

Thanks again to all.

[10thzodiac]

Skipper, I was in 4 different units in the Corps, and that was the only unit that was chicken-sh!t. I don't know if the harassment caused it, but everyone was getting into big trouble, not just the...

[grayshade]

I think there should be one type of cut Corps-wide, that's high-n-tight, can't go wrong with that. Unless your bald, then there's not much you can say about that.

[OneWay]

10thzodiac, sounds like that Gunny was out of control on a power trip. Although I certainly want to defer to NCOs on certain aspects of unit leadership, what you are describing sounds like abuse. I have often dropped-in unannounced and "corrected" some questionable barracks "leadership." Sounds like your Gunny cracked and got what he deserved in the long run, though.

grayshade, I agree with you, in theory, about haircuts on Marines. Though I'd never discourage a Marine from having a longer cut - as long as it was within regs - I have to say I do admire those with hi-n-tites, or shorter, because they are identifying themselves as wanting to look uniquely Marine. I see a lot of total shaved heads now, which is OK too, but nothing says "US Marine" quite like a hi-n-tite or a horseshoe flat-top.

[10thzodiac]

Skipper just my opinion, officers that are personable, fair and lead by example, not by fear, will have an army of the willing rather than the un-willing.

We had some real characters in that arty btry, and no one really cared for our aloof former army Captain. Once he asked one of our characters, the battery runner to rinse out his coffee cup and get a him fresh cup of coffee. I won't tell you what the runner did to his coffee cup in the head. The runner did tell us that the Captain said, "Best cup of coffee he had in a long time." :D

They can work for you or against you.

It's human nature.

[semperfi170]

Captain,

You are right! Marine Corps regulations are there and in this case I believe are the minimum acceptable as a NCO and SNCO, I never would impose a standard that I wasn't willing to set the example by doing. This applied to uniforms, haircuts, etc. Lead by example and others will typically follow! Personally, I think it is great that you are willing to wear your hair that way. If the young officers see you doing it, there will be those that follow your example and even maybe some of the others that are equivalent to you in rank.

I will caution you that if your are around the Wing the jet jocks tend towards the minimum acceptable. Of course around the reserve wingers the same holds true for all ranks, it even carries over to the active component associated with the wing reserves.

[kentmitchell]

I guess high & tight or shaved heads is the current trend.
In my time--'56-60--our hair was long enough to part if that was what we wanted as long as it was neat and no sideburns. The haircuts of our DIs, WWII Marines, pre-war (the Old Corps) and Korean War Marines were our guidelines.
Don't know when high & tight became a standard.
Haircuts don't seem to affect fighting ability.

[killerinstinct]

this reminds me of some of the comments about cammies.. you would always here about how ironing cammies makes them lose the chemical that helps keep body heat in yet we were all starching and ironing..

Personally I think troops wanting to emulate their commander is looking squared away is probably the best thing as far as respect. But for some reason you put two platoons side by side and you see one with high n tights the other with low regs. Which do you think gives the impression of being outstanding?

just my opinion

[ggyoung]

In 1968 I went to Ft. Shiel OK. for artillery search light school and in lawton ok. there were shops that the army guys could rent long hair wigs whyle on the town. It sure made me wonder about the army.

[SkilletsUSMC]

I guess high & tight or shaved heads is the current trend.
In my time--'56-60--our hair was long enough to part if that was what we wanted as long as it was neat and no sideburns. The haircuts of our DIs, WWII Marines, pre-war (the Old Corps) and Korean War Marines were our guidelines.
Don't know when high & tight became a standard.
Haircuts don't seem to affect fighting ability.

Halelujah!!!!!!

Im going to print and frame this post, and hang it right where my old Platoon Sgt can see it. ;)

A low reg haircut does not make a bad Marine.