Marine General fights for Mothers who say no to war [Archive] - Marine Corps

10thzodiac

03-06-07, 09:51 PM

http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/butler01-by_schmidt.html

In an October 1939 Radio broadcast introduced by Senator Clark, USMC Major General Smedley D. Butler urged the mothers of America not to let their sons be sent overseas as "cannon fodder":

Now - you Mothers, particularly! The only way you can resist all this war hysteria and beating of tom-toms is by asserting the love you bear your boys. When you listen to some well worded, some well-delivered war speech, just remember it's nothing but sound. No amount of sound can make up to you for the loss of your boy. After you've heard one of those speeches and your blood's all hot and you want to bite somebody like Hitler .- go upstairs to where your boy's asleep.. . . Look at him. Put your hand on that spot on the back of his neck. The place you used to love to kiss when he was a baby. Just rub it a little. You won't wake him up, he knows it's you. Just look at his strong, fine young body because only the best boys are chosen for war. Look at this splendid young creature who's part of yourseW then close you eyes for a moment and I'll tell you what can happen....
Somewhere-five thousand miles from home. Night. Darkness. Cold. A drizzling rain. The noise is terrific. All Hell has broken loose. A star shell burst in the air. Its unearthly flare lights up the muddy field. There's a lot of tangled rusty barbed wires out there and a boy hanging over them-his stomach ripped out, and he's feebly calling for help and water. His lips are white and drawn. He's in agony.

There's your boy. The same boy who's lying in bed tonight. The same boy who trusts you.. . . Are you going to run out on him? Are you going to let someone beat a drum or blow a bugle and make him chase after it? Thank God, this is a Democracy and by your voice and your vote you can save your boy.

jinelson

03-06-07, 10:30 PM

So 10th are you saying that you agree with your hero Smedley or is this another slick secular progressive bait and switch about Iraq? We wasted our young warriors lives and our treasure fighting Hitler Tojo and Mussolini? Your hero was either a communist or facist basically what secular progressives are today, just in a new package. You really should consider running for President as a Democrat they need another secular progressive like you to further their cause and destroy America. I rank General Butler right up there with Jane Fonda, Cindy Sheehan, John Kerry. John Murtha, Nancy Pelosi and Teddy I got away with manslaughter and DUI Kennedy. Your hero sucks! I bet that you love Benedict Arnold too!

Jim

10thzodiac

03-06-07, 10:47 PM

Maybe we should rename MCB Camp Smedly D. Butler, Okinawa (http://www.mcbbutler.usmc.mil/), Camp jinelson ? Do you have two Congressional Medals of Honor too ?

I'd contact Perfect Peter (Pace) before the Democrats get in though, he won't be around for very long after !

drumcorpssnare

03-07-07, 11:26 AM

10thz- You forgot to include Smedley's "other" speech. Ya know...the one he would have had to present to America's mothers, if they had heeded the whimpy rhetoric of his 1939 speech.

"Now...you mothers...I am sorry. The war hysteria that I was so opposed to...(sob)...You listened to a well-worded, well-delivered speech that was nothing but sound. Now, no amount of speeches can undo the fact that America is now under the control of the Axis Powers. When you wanted to bite Hitler, I should have encouraged you to do so.
Now, when you go upstairs, to look for your boy...he's not there. He's in a forced labor camp building tanks for the German Army. He was a fine, strong young man who could have fought this terrible enemy. But I asked you not to let him go.
Yes, he would have gone into the dark...five-thousand miles from home.
He would have fought in the cold, dark rain of hell. There would have been barbed-wire, and death, and agony. But America's young men would have carried the day. If only I hadn't asked you not to send them off to war.
You mothers, and your boys...you trusted me, and I let you down. I'm so deeply sorry.
The next time someone beats a drum or blows a bugle, I pray we will all answer the call. We once had a Democracy where our voice and our vote could have spared us this tragedy.
Later today, I will be taken to a concentration camp. Until then, I beseach you...forgive me, please?"

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

ggyoung

03-07-07, 11:29 AM

Gen. Pace and the new CMC are going to stay untill there term is over. From what I see of the both of them I would like to see them stay for a long time.

10thzodiac

03-07-07, 12:47 PM

[Snippet]

10thz- You forgot to include Smedley's "other" speech. Ya know...the one he would have had to present to America's mothers, if they had heeded the whimpy rhetoric of his 1939 speech.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[Snippet]

http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/butler01-by_schmidt.html

In opposing the remilitarization of American foreign policy, General Smedley D. Butler called for a viable defense exclusive of imperialistic capabilities. With existing US. military capability, no foreign enemy or likely coalition could invade America. It would take a force of at least a million men to invade a nation of 130 million. They would have to arrive all at once to be effective. There was not enough shipping in the entire world to transport such a force across 3,000 miles of ocean in a period of ten days. In the last war it had taken four months, using the enemy's biggest ships as well, to get a million men to Europe. A strong US. coastal defense would be a final and insurmountable obstacle. In Woman's Home Companion, also in 1936, he advocated a constitutional amendment to prohibit removal of armed forces from the continental United States and Panama Canal, and to restrict warships to within 500 miles of the coast and aircraft to within 700 miles, somewhat extended from distances proposed in War Is a Racket. The real danger of war was American military adventurism, not foreign invasion

DWG

03-07-07, 02:18 PM

We could build our Maginot Line, and I'm in favor of it for immigration control. But the ICBM, airliners, and trade would still be our "lowlands" where an enemy could strike.
They do not necessarily want to take over America; our destruction as a world power would serve their purpose as well! And you wouldn't need 130 million for that.

drumcorpssnare

03-07-07, 02:49 PM

DW- Ya know how 10thz is always quoting Smedley's idea of "securing the border so tight a rat couldn't get through..."? Well, the problem is towelheads...not rats!!! Besides, rats don't smuggle explosives across our borders, and they don't know how to fly 747's either!

But....I guess as long as the rats don't get through...10th will be happy.:banana:
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

HOLM

03-07-07, 03:18 PM

Yeah 10z is talking about this guy <br />
<br />
When Major General Wendell C. Neville died in July 1930, many expected Butler to succeed him as Commandant of the Marine Corps. Butler, however, had criticized...

HOLM

03-07-07, 03:29 PM

Gee and by 1939 I am sure Butler held no ill will towards FDR or Hoover or any of those guys..

If you ask me Butler was right in 1931.. and very very wrong in 1939

Somewhere between 1931 and 1939 he lost his will to fight imperialism..

I just think its great that FDR stuck his head in the sand for 10-15 years and let Hitler build the biggest baddest army around.... D@mn democrats have a strange way of letting the enemy grow.....

That history never has repeated itself now has it?????

DWG

03-07-07, 03:46 PM

[quote=drumcorpssnare]DW- Ya know how 10thz is always quoting Smedley's idea of "securing the border so tight a rat couldn't get through..."? Well, the problem is towelheads...not rats!!! Besides, rats don't smuggle explosives across our borders, and they don't know how to fly 747's either!

But....I guess as long as the rats don't get through...10th will be happy.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:[/quote

Ya know, maybe Gen. Butler(and 10Z) was just deathly afraid of rats?:confused:

ggyoung

03-07-07, 08:37 PM

HOLM++++++++++++there have been lots of generals who have spoken out when they should not have. One I servved under was one of the best generals the Marines has produced. LT.Gen. Victor Krulac. And it cost him from becoming the CMC. I know he would say the same thing al over again. I and the old 1st Marine Bergade(sp) would follow him into hell.

HOLM

03-07-07, 10:07 PM

I am that guy that if ever in a position of that kind of authority and power would be sure to say all kinds of silly stuff like that.... I am all to familiar with the foot in mouth syndrome...

I think 10z is seriously wrong about his interpretation of his Butler quotes

Hey I could find all kinds of Ronald Reagen anti war type quotes .... But that sure didn't keep him from kicking some commie A SSES....

10thzodiac

03-07-07, 11:31 PM

RESPONSE IN RED <br />
<br />
Even though I believe I'm arguing with a poser, I'll say this because I don't want anybody, Marine or poser besmirching a real American hero, General Smedlely D. Butler !

HOLM

03-08-07, 10:36 AM

What a d@mn liberal commie coward type accusition.... If you know you are so right about Butler what really is the point of trying to deface me... <br />
<br />
BUT <br />
<br />
OK sure what kind of proof do you...

10thzodiac

03-08-07, 11:01 AM

HOLM, I still think you are a wannabe poser, say what you may ! I'd have to have the NARA personally tell me you are a Marine. You say you never got a DD-214 and have been out of the Corps since 2003. You might be able to $hit a $hit-bird with your hee-bee schmuck gobbledygook, but not me !

[snippet]

General Butler on Foreign Wars

"Not a single drop of American blood should ever again be spilled on foreign soil." ~ General Smedley Butler

How can you say General butler: [quote] Why did he [Butler] have and itch to kick Italy's butt in 1931?????? [Unquote]

BTW Muzeltov http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

rktect3j

03-08-07, 11:23 AM

HOLM

03-08-07, 11:27 AM

SO once again you have no answer

The question about the Mussolini Affair is really a simple one...

Attacking me is really point less... I have a letter of separation.. I was not a admin.. so I don't really know how or why that stuff works.. I should have my DD 214 in my mail box in the next couple days if you really need it...

So why attack me?? I didn't put down you or Butler... Just what I believe to be a more historically accurate description of the facts... Butler did not say what he did and write what he did in a vacuum.. The was a whole lot going on in this country in the 1930's and to just pull bits and pieces out is historically wrong....

10thzodiac

03-08-07, 11:36 AM

You seem to be mostly anti war with a bit of anti military mixed into it. Could you possibly post something you knew wouldn't irritate 99% of the posters on this board? Do you join groups/forums and then just take the opposite stance to **** people off? You seem to have this knack for grabbing attention.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=j>Touché</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I think you finally found your niche, "sour grapes".

A Marine would of sided with reason and facts, instead of letting anyone disparage a great Marine Like General Smedley D. Butler

Sad.

HOLM

03-08-07, 11:45 AM

Hey I didn't disparage anyone... Just looked a history from a different perspective that you....

During the 1930's eveyone was anti war and the quote you have in your signature line was the sentimate of the entire country clean up until Pearl Harbor.... The problem was that 56 million people died because of that attitude... We could have stopped Hilter before he ever got started... and if Hoover or FDR would have had the guts to leave a man like Bulter in... I'll bet he might have beat Hilter without firing a shot... But no one wanted to find that out... and So Bulter needed to get power back.. The best way to do that is to go mainstream....

ggyoung

03-08-07, 11:51 AM

OK it' time to stop this BS kids

10thzodiac

03-08-07, 11:54 AM

RESPONSE IN RED

SO once again you have no answer

Yeah I do, where in the fuk do you read into the Mussolini Affair this: [quote] Why did he [Butler] have and itch to kick Italy's butt in 1931?????? [Unquote]

The question about the Mussolini Affair is really a simple one...

Attacking me is really point less... I have a letter of separation.. I was not a admin.. so I don't really know how or why that stuff works.. I should have my DD 214 in my mail box in the next couple days if you really need it...

Again, any Marine here knows you or I could be anyone except who we say we are. I haven't seen you post anything that convinces me you were ever a Marine. Especially you saying you NEVER got a DD-214 and you are out of service since 2007. You'd have to fall off a turnip truck to swallow that one !!!

So why attack me?? I didn't put down you or Butler... Just what I believe to be a more historically accurate description of the facts... Butler did not say what he did and write what he did in a vacuum.. The was a whole lot going on in this country in the 1930's and to just pull bits and pieces out is historically wrong....

Maybe you think you can put the schmaltz on Goyim's here, but not this Goy !

Muzeltov

10thzodiac

03-08-07, 11:57 AM

I'm through !

10thzodiac

03-08-07, 12:04 PM

I'm through !

HOLM Again, any Marine here knows you or I could be anyone except who we say we are. I haven't seen you post anything that convinces me you were ever a Marine. Especially you saying you NEVER got a DD-214 and you are out of service since 2003. You'd have to fall off a turnip truck to swallow that one !!!

HOLM

03-08-07, 12:04 PM

The "Mussolini affair" refers to an incident when during a speech on January 19, 1931, General Butler recounted a story told to him by journalist Cornelius Vanderbilt. Vanderbilt had been in a car...

10thzodiac

03-08-07, 12:33 PM

RESPONSE IN RED

USMCmailman

03-08-07, 12:48 PM

Finally someone to keep 10thZodiac cccupied and off of other sites!!!!!!!!!!
YOU GO HOLM!!!!!!!!!!:yes: :no: :scared:

10thzodiac

03-08-07, 01:01 PM

Finally someone to keep 10thZodiac cccupied and off of other sites!!!!!!!!!!
YOU GO HOLM!!!!!!!!!! :scared:

HOLM has his tail between his legs, who's next http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/18.gif

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/waffen/violent-smiley-090.gif

USMCmailman

03-08-07, 01:04 PM

Not worth the trouble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

HOLM

03-08-07, 01:43 PM

10z I thought we were talking about Butler... Why are you so fascinated with me anyway... I have my expired military ID in my wallet would you like to see that.....

OH by the way if you really want to get stupid with the anti war stuff George Washington made several public anti war type statements to but that didn't keep him from kicking the snot out of the redcoats..

So why did your hero have such a problem with that Italian.. you want to talk about history ... you brought this up in a place you knew it would draw attention..

So come on forget about me and lets talk history

10thzodiac

03-08-07, 02:13 PM

10z I thought we were talking about Butler... Why are you so fascinated with me anyway... I have my expired military ID in my wallet would you like to see that.....

Illegals have drivers licenses too, dah...

It's not that I'm fascinated with you, I 'm just taken back your
distortions of facts or bending the truth to suit your rhetoric.

OH by the way if you really want to get stupid with the anti war stuff George Washington made several public anti war type statements to but that didn't keep him from kicking the snot out of the redcoats..

If case it escapes your knowledge on the subject that you profess to know so well with your unfounded assertion's, General's Washington and Butler were both Isolationists:

"The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities." ~ George Washington's Farewell Address

So why did your hero have such a problem with that Italian.. you want to talk about history ... you brought this up in a place you knew it would draw attention..

In a speech on "how to prevent war" delivered to the Philadelphia Contemporary Club in January 1931, Butler related an anecdote about Italian Prime Minister Benito Mussolini while making the point that "mad-dog nations" could not be trusted to honor disarmament agreements. Butler recounted a story told him by an unnamed friend who had been taken by Mussolini for a high-speed automobile ride through the Italian countryside, in the course of which the dictator ran down a child and did not bother even to slow down: "My friend screamed as the child's body was crushed under the wheels of the machine. Mussolini put a hand on my friend's knee. 'It was only one life,' he told my friend. 'What is one life in the affairs of a State.'"

So come on forget about me and lets talk history

I am going to forget about you, but if you want me to teach you any more history it is not going to be cheap, you'll have to show me your money first !

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/18.gif

HOLM

03-08-07, 02:29 PM

HAHAHAHAHA dude you crack me up.... So given what you just posted how can you possibly say that either of those men would be against this war???

I their day and age long range projectiles containing very destructive munitions were not even a topic..... Now we face that very threat... I don't think they ever conceived that the enemy in 1930 would fly a jumbo jet into the heart of a major metropolitan city... Or continually attack non military non combative targets...

Butler had a problem with the out of control government of Italy taking the whole place over... Kind of like the problem I have with the Liberal scum in this country today that dominates the Main stream media...

HAHAHAHA

You proved my point exactly about Washington... D@mn man even Linclon did not like or want to go to war... That list could go on for days... But men of character always do what is necessary... DESPITE PUBLIC OPINION....

Every one hated Truman in the late 1940's and on into the 1950's And I could quote him saying anti war stuff to..

so please what is your point????

HOLM

03-08-07, 02:52 PM

In a speech on "how to prevent war" delivered to the Philadelphia Contemporary Club in January 1931, Butler related an anecdote about Italian Prime Minister Benito Mussolini while making the point that "mad-dog nations" could not be trusted to honor disarmament agreements

YEP I think that is what GEORGE BUSH was and still is trying to tell the American Public....

You have a good point here :)

I could not have said that better myself

HOLM

03-08-07, 03:18 PM

"The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns

Butler related an anecdote about Italian Prime Minister Benito Mussolini while making the point that "mad-dog nations" could not be trusted to honor disarmament agreements

I just thought about how funny that is... You are here trying to make an anit war case.... And you post a quote from washington that says we can't trust europe.... UMMM THE FRIGN UN to serve our interests

And then you don't miss a beat and quote Butler saying WE can't trust MAD DOG NATIONS..

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA...

Ya'll Moveon.orgy types really make my day sometimes....

ggyoung

03-08-07, 03:52 PM

Stop

HOLM

03-08-07, 04:15 PM

Why stop that guy is throwing red meat....
I am trying my best to keep in clean.. A killer lives in me though :) but I thought I had been nice given he has been so rude...

Do you think it is immpossible for 10z to play fair or fight clean

If so why can't I help him shoot himself in the foot???

All we have to talk about are facts of history.. He will lose that arguement with me.. He is bastardizing what Butler was all about.. I found Butler to be interesting and studied the General very deeply before joining the Corps.. I know a lot about Butler and 10z picked the wrong Devil Dog to fight with.....

10thzodiac

03-14-07, 07:55 AM

WHO WAS GENERAL SMEDLEY D. BUTLER ?
<O:p></O:p>
Was he an Isolationist that believed in strong defense as a deterrent to prevent wars -or- an advocate <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><ST1:place>to </ST1:place></st1:country-region>go abroad in search for foreign monsters to Destroy !

<O:p>Major General Smedley Butler USMC
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/major_general_smedley_butler_usm.htm

Smedley Butler on Interventionism
http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm

War is a Racket by Smedley D. Butler
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

The Plot to Seize the White House byJules Archer
http://www.clubhousewreckards.com/plot/plottoseizethewhitehouse.htm
</O:p>

HOLM

03-14-07, 08:48 AM

Do you really want to do this with me????

Pulling little tid bits from here and there and taking statements from any man without the context of the culture and events happing during his lifetime is a seriously flawed execution of your arguement..

Lets start with your first site that you quoted

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/

Top article on that site

"Jesus a very Jewish Myth"

This book not only makes the argument that the evidence indicates that Jesus Christ never existed, but also argues for a very particular view of that position and argues against some of the other claims about the nature of the Jesus story. Specifically this work makes the case for the story of Jesus being heavily dependent on Jewish mythology, and argues against claims that the story of Jesus is based on so-called "pagan" myths or celestial deities.

Then I read a couple quick articles praising the brilliance of Marxism and a couple talking about what a great fellow Mussolini was...

And quoted from the site....

Ho Chi Minh (1890-1969) fought for half a century to free Vietnam from foreign domination

Should I check into your other sources?????

Yeah I am sure there are plenty of people on this site that really think Ho Chi Minh was a great leader.....

10thzodiac

03-14-07, 09:21 AM

My maturity is not limited to tantrums to deflect away from the issue at hand.

I'm going to let the reader decide what General Butler said or didn't say. I trust the individual readers intelligence is not limited to having someone like you or me read between the lines telling them what General Butler said.

WHO WAS GENERAL SMEDLEY D. BUTLER ?

Was he an Isolationist that believed in strong National Defense as a deterrent to prevent wars -or- an advocate <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><ST1:place>to </ST1:place></st1:country-region>go abroad in search for foreign monsters to Destroy ?

<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:p>Major General Smedley Butler USMC
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/major_general_smedley_butler_usm.htm

Smedley Butler on Interventionism
http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm

War is a Racket by Smedley D. Butler
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

The Plot to Seize the White House byJules Archer
http://www.clubhousewreckards.com/plot/plottoseizethewhitehouse.htm
</O:p>

HOLM

03-14-07, 09:28 AM

Oh and for those that have not read "War is a Racket" Lets point out that Butler was not against defeating an enemy he just understood the political and $$$ motivation...

Quotes from "War is a Racket"

Not in Italy, to be sure. Premier Mussolini knows what they are being trained for. He, at least, is frank enough to speak out. Only the other day, Il Duce in "International Conciliation," the publication of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said:

"And above all, Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace... War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the people who have the courage to meet it."

Undoubtedly Mussolini means exactly what he says. His well-trained army, his great fleet of planes, and even his navy are ready for war – anxious for it, apparently. His recent stand at the side of Hungary in the latter's dispute with Jugoslavia showed that. And the hurried mobilization of his troops on the Austrian border after the assassination of Dollfuss showed it too. There are others in Europe too whose sabre rattling presages war, sooner or later.

Herr Hitler, with his rearming Germany and his constant demands for more and more arms, is an equal if not greater menace to peace. France only recently increased the term of military service for its youth from a year to eighteen months.

Yes, they are getting ready for another war. Why shouldn't they? It pays high dividends.

I think he would have engaged in WW2 before FDR did.... But that is only speculation

HOLM

03-14-07, 09:33 AM

10thzodiac

03-14-07, 09:35 AM

General Butler in opposing the re-militarization of American foreign policy, he called for a viable defense exclusive of imperialistic capabilities. With existing US. military capability, no foreign enemy or likely coalition could invade America. It would take a force of at least a million men to invade a nation of 130 million. They would have to arrive all at once to be effective. There was not enough shipping in the entire world to transport such a force across 3,000 miles of ocean in a period of ten days. In the last war it had taken four months, using the enemy's biggest ships as well, to get a million men to Europe. A strong US. coastal defense would be a final and insurmountable obstacle. In Woman's Home Companion, also in 1936, he advocated a constitutional amendment to prohibit removal of armed forces from the continental United States and Panama Canal, and to restrict warships to within 500 miles of the coast and aircraft to within 700 miles, somewhat extended from distances proposed in War Is a Racket. The real danger of war was American military adventurism, not foreign invasion.

HOLM

03-14-07, 09:40 AM

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

Sounds like he was a little p!ssed off to me.... I don't think he was talking about the same Marine Corps I severed with.....

Wonder if he had any reason to be a little upset in 1933???
..

HOLM

03-14-07, 09:51 AM

The real danger of war was American military adventurism, not foreign invasion.

Yes you see this was the feelings of the entire country in 1936... Hitler was stream rolling eupore the Great depression was in full swing, civil rights movements were roiting in the streets and people were just a little tired..

He thought you could just stick your head in the sand and just wait after no one would listen to him about the threat that Germany and Italy were creating... Given all the decisions that Butler made prior to leaving the service these statemenats are totally out of line and out of character... I have no problem with a man seeing the error of his ways... But you have to relieze some people in washington really p!ssed that man off.

And he was out to cause some trouble.... Why do you think the guys that thought they could overthrow FDR thought that Butler would be helpful??

Mexico was also a growing concern in the 1930's... It wouldn't have taken them 4 months to get here and And in WW2 it did not take four months to get here either.....

This kind of oversight lead to Pearl Harbor...

10thzodiac

03-14-07, 10:02 AM

Near the end of his career, General Butler began questioning the issue of foreign wars. He began calling war a racket, and became adamant about the imperialist aspect of the U.S.' foreign interventions. He was not a pacifist, and came from a long line of republicans. When he had an opinion, however, he made it known. In 1935, after he retired, he published a slim book titled War is a Racket. Butler campaigned on that theme for the rest of his life.
Butler believed that all U.S. foreign interventions were self-serving acts, which lined the pockets of the rich at the expense of the nations it victimized, sending young boys to do the dirty work, wearing American uniforms. People such as Franklin Roosevelt sidled up to the trough, to "invest" in Haiti after it had been secured for American interests. Roosevelt drafted the Haitian constitution that overturned more than a century of Haitian strategy of not allowing foreign land ownership to gain a foothold in Haiti, which would begin undermining its sovereignty. FDR was an integral part of the neocolonial strategy of pillaging Haiti. Butler provided the muscle to pull it off.

Butler's opinions did not come from reading radical literature, but from his experiences. His correspondence early in his career complained loud and long when commercial interests and Machiavellian plotting by his superiors would force him to go back on his word with those he negotiated with, as in Nicaragua, which he helped plunder, another situation that continues to this day. Back then, brute force was yielding to a neocolonial strategy of the Taft administration known as Dollar Diplomacy, where the U.S. sought to control its subject nations through economic manipulation rather than marching in the armed forces, as with Teddy Roosevelt's Big Stick Diplomacy. Butler carried out part of its early implementation. The famous Butler quote, where he admitted to being an unwitting “gangster for Capitalism” is vintage Butler.

thedrifter

03-14-07, 10:20 AM

10thzodiac

Play nice and stick with the facts....;)

Ellie

semperfi170

03-14-07, 10:37 AM

10th,

How many times have you posted this thread? Reading your replies and that of Holm, I see the need for the two of you to have a meaningful debate offline or in a chat room. Failing a conclusive win the 2 of you could square off in the pugil pit.:evilgrin: :evilgrin:

10thzodiac

03-14-07, 10:49 AM

10thzodiac

Play nice and stick with the facts....;)

Ellie

MY FIRST POST OF THE DAY

"I'm going to let the reader decide what General Butler said or didn't say. I trust the individual readers intelligence is not limited to having someone like you or me read between the lines telling them what General Butler said." ~ 10thzodiac

Major General Smedley Butler USMC
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/wa...butler_usm.htm (http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/major_general_smedley_butler_usm.htm)

Smedley Butler on Interventionism
http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm

War is a Racket by Smedley D. Butler
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

The Plot to Seize the White House byJules Archer
http://www.clubhousewreckards.com/pl...whitehouse.htm (http://www.clubhousewreckards.com/plot/plottoseizethewhitehouse.htm)

HOLM

03-14-07, 12:57 PM

Reading your replies and that of Holm, I see the need for the two of you to have a meaningful debate offline or in a chat room. Failing a conclusive win the 2 of you could square off in the pugil pit

That sounds like a great Idea... I have yet to lose a pugil match....

10thzodiac

03-14-07, 01:35 PM

That sounds like a great Idea... I have yet to lose a pugil match....

I beat Ricky Recon at NCO leadership '62 pugil sticks; not to mention I knocked the black belt instructor on his ass in choking class while I was there, the class really liked that. 3/40 meritorious promotion to corporal.

Not as good as I use to be, but once as good as I use to be

10th http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/22.gif

HOLM

03-14-07, 02:00 PM

aaahhh ain't it funny just how quickly a anti war fellow can be sucked right into a physical fight to stand for what he believes in.....

Wyoming

03-14-07, 02:47 PM

10thzodiac

03-14-07, 02:48 PM

aaahhh ain't it funny just how quickly a anti war fellow can be sucked right into a physical fight to stand for what he believes in.....

Don't hold your breath if your not having me protect the "Bill of Rights" or my home and I mean my home not an oil well in Iraq !

Sheesh, I'm sounding more like Butler everyday, must be real catchy http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

HOLM

03-14-07, 03:05 PM

well since the majority of the oil wells and pipelines in Iraq right now are being defended by Iraqi's and the Brits I dunno what the heck your problem is with the war then.....

The world is smaller now than the world Butler lived in... betcha Bulter never dreamed of a civilain jumbo jet being flown into a civilain target...

Sure OIF didn't start out as a war against Al Gore.... Ummm I mean Al quida... (I really gota work on that I always confuse the Al's and the Osama. Dang it I mean Obama.... they just get me confused all the time) It started out as a campaign to remove WMd's that the entire WORLD thought Saddam had... Now that we have found our sworn enemy Al ..... (almost slipped again) Quida there it would seem horribly irresponsible to just pack up and leave...

In WW1 it took .. what did you say 4 months to cross the ocean... How long would it take a MIG with a nuke strapped to it????

Like you just pointed out... Some things are worth fighting for....:flag:

10thzodiac

03-14-07, 03:09 PM

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<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>Favorite Marine:
#1 Smedley, Shoup, Hoar, Capt. Barnes, Capt. Miller, Zinni, Ritter, Murtha

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

MURTHA!!!!

(Oh yeah, 10thZ, this is straight out of your profile.)

And your profile picture, in front of a commie. Kinda shows where you stand!

Sempers ...

The picture was to show for another thread that I was in Communist China [Beijing] last year, to illustrate a point where I seen American military uniforms being made and sold.

BTW, did you know if Communist China dumped all the American debt [US Treasuries] that they hold on the world open market, you'd have to have a wheel barrel of American money to buy a loaf a bread in Georgia ?

As far as Murtha goes or anyone else that opposes wars of folly, they are true friends of the Military.