JAG mentor

[gatormatt]

I will be attending PLC juniors over the summer. After completing my undergraduate degree, I will decide whether or not to accept my comission. I will then attend law school. I'm hearing mixed theories on whether serving in the Marines as a lawyer will be beneficial or not to my career. In my opinion I will have more experience during my 3.5 years with the Marines than most people will gain in their first years out of law school. However, other people have told me that the Marines would probable place me a little behind my peers.

Monetarily I realize that I will be sacrificing by joining the Marines, but I'm convinced that the experience and gratification I get from serving my country will be worth it.

I was hoping there are some current/former JAG officers out there that could offer me some advice, and possibly express some pros/cons they have experienced during their service. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Feel free to repsond on this forum, but I'd prefer if you sent your answers to my email ( gatormatt00@yahoo.com ) as I check that more often.

Thanks for your time
Matt

[thedrifter]

If you have the Heart and Soul to become a Marine, you will be way ahead of your peers. The experience of being Marine will better prepare you for your civilian career. So if it is in you to become a Marine.............Go for it.........And become one of the Brotherhood/Sisterhood that will be with you all your life.

The Drifter

[firstsgtmike]

Reject the Commission.

[gatormatt]

why should i reject it. i think the experience will be more than worth it. do you have any reasons/experience for your opinion.

[MAJMike]

Take the commission. In the "real world' of the law biz, having been a Marine officer will stand you in good stead.

However, I'm sure that you realize that JAG lawyers practice "military law" - a system of law based on the UCMJ and other military rules and regs. These rules/regs have little if any application in the real world of civilain law. There's no "Article 32" in the real world. You will get "practice" at investigating, trying and defending cases, etc., but JAG is a whole different law basis and culture than that in the real world. Depending on your dutyh station, you might get experience in family law and doing legal work such as writing wills and entering probate motions.

Should you decide that a civilian legal career is your ultimate goal, you may find yourself competing with recent law school graduates much younger than yourself for associate positions in civilian law firms. Although you have "experience," it may or may not be apropos to your civilian legal career. It all depends on the firm, the position and the situation. You may or may not be at a disadvantage in competing for associate positions. Only very senior JAG lawyers with an area of specialization that is needed by a civilain firms can expect to join at a partner level.

I would suggest that you qualify for the state bar in the state where you are assigned a duty station. Also, qualify for the federal court system. Off duty pro-bono work with civilian organizations that provide family law services can also be a civilian career builder.

HOWEVER, do not expect real JAG law to be like the popular TV show of the same name. I hope that you have spent some time with more than one real JAG lawyer(s) getting a realistic perspective of the JAG Corps.

Mike Ventura
MAJ USMCR 1968-75
Woodrow Wilson School of Law - 1978

[firstsgtmike]

gatormatt,

Reject the Commission.

Why?

Because I'd prefer NOT to have you in MY Marine Corps.

Now, ask yourself Why?

[greensideout]

firstsgtmike,

You are so hard on this kid!

gatormatt only used I, I'm, my or me 24 times in two posts.

You're such a hardas*! LMAO

[greensideout]

gatormatt,

Unless you really have it in your heart to become a Marine, just plain and simple a Marine first then forget it.

Riding the reputation of the world's best fighting forces to futher your career makes me want to puke.

If you want to be a Marine and work in JAG, great.

If you want to work in JAG and be a Marine, forget it.

What are you looking for? A name, "I was a Marine", or just someone to pay the way?

I'm not the right guy to give advice on this I suppose, as I feel that you should consider an honorable career instead.

[gatormatt]

Firstsgtmike, i supposed you'd rather have people in "YOUR" Marines (i think other Marines on this board would have appreciated "OUR") that don't know how to apply logical reasoning. Not to sound too arrogant, as i realize arrogance isn't taken too lightly around here, but i think i'm exactly what the Marine Corps needs. I scored a 296 on my first pft after only training for 2 weeks, i scored a 96 on the asvab (3 years ago), i've held many leadership positions, and i want to serve my country.

As for greenside out, although "this recruit" found your posts rather slanted towards an attacking tone, "this recruit" aprreciates your honesty and time. However "this recruit" would like to respond. First, what was your reason for becoming a Marine. regardless of your answer it can be made to sound selfish. if it wasn't you probably would have joined the Air Force. Also, I guess you should puke because many of the people who join the Marinesdo so to help pay for college, learn a trade, or get a career (all to further their careers). Secondly, I believe it is inherently obvious that I want to be a Marine first and work in JAG. If this was not the cause I would have followed my classmate to the USAF recruiting office and then cashed my signing bonus check off at the bank on the drive home. Also, i hope that was sarcasm in your final reference to getting "an honorable career instead". I can see very few opportunities in this world that would be as honorable as being part of the Corps.

And finally, I'm not looking for a name, i'm looking for a life changing experience. and when i part with the Marine Corps I hope my experiences with soldiers like you don't lead me to say "I was a Marine". Instead i hope the positive experiences i have with people like thedrifter and MAJmike lead me to proudly say "I AM a Marine".

[gatormatt]

also i'd jsut like to make clear that my first post was merely an attempt to get feedback. in no way was i insinuating that i only want to join to help my career. the pros i have for joining greatly outweigh the cons. i just figured i already know about the many positive aspects of becoming a Marine. by stating this single con, i was hoping to get information on it; the information that my OSO is at times reluctant to tell me. Sorry about the misunderstanding

[wrbones]

I tried to warn ya gatormatt! LMAO.

Be careful goin' after that First Sergeant. Any First Sergeant for that matter. As an officer to B, yer only gonna learn the hard way.

You can't see it, but the 'tone' of yer first post is what brought this on.

Basically, you seemed to be concerned about you and only you. We know it's not like that in the Corps. Whenever one of us talks about "My Marine Corps." the rest of us know what is being said. It's a Marine thing. Yer not gonna understand until you've earned the title. You can tell me different when yer wearing that Eagle, Globe and Anchor sometime in yer future.

The Marine Corps is a life changing experience. You'll never be the same.

You're not a Marine as yet and I'd advise an abrubt change in attitude and some reading of many things posted on this site.

You need your life changed. Join my ****ing Marine Corps.

I dare ya.

In the meantime, read, learn and listen. We've been there. We know. You might need an attitude adjustment.

BTW. The Major told ya what the others did. He was just a bit more tactful about it.

There's a lot of info posted on the site that you and others like you can take advantage of, from OCS to military science to small arms tactics to Sun T'zu's The Art of War.

It's all there for your perusal.

[greensideout]

Did you say something to me gatormatt or did you just fart?
It all seemed rather foul.

You may try again.

[MAJMike]

At ease, gentlemen.

Major Mike

[gatormatt]

i'm sorry greensideout, i completely misunderstood the idea of this forum (mentor). you haven't provided me any information to any of the questions i asked, and from your profile i can see that you probably don't have any information about JAG to offer me. however i do appreciate your time and maybe you could recommend somewhere where i could find more useful info (although this is one of the bigger/better forums i have seen).

And yes, i did fart.

[eddief]

All this macho bull**** is so funny. This is better than 'Seinfeld'.

[greensideout]

gatormatt,

I do have some info that might be helpful. Prehaps not.

I wish to respond to you questions but have to make a run now.

A plane just in with family.

Back later.

[thedrifter]

At ease Marines and futue Marines..........We are here to help one another and not get into a P!ssing contest........I have noticed some disrespect toward Veteran Marines here by a recruit.......Information was provided and given with the idea of helping........No matter what job a Marine did or had.......He still earned the Title of United States Marine........Until it is earned, your job as Pool-ees, recruit and etc is to listen and learn......You have not walked in these Marines Boots and you don't know what they have been thru......SHOW RESPECT TO ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Drifter

[Art Petersn]

the thedrifter. Your right with the respect thing.

I've been out of the Corp sense 58 and you don't leave the Corp behind. It's impossible to explain to somebody just what it means to always be a marine. 3, 4, 6, 8, 20, 30 years in the corp. Time is not the determining factor. The making of the marine with the training and disapline is what makes marines stand out. I'm probley just as proud now after 35 years for becoming a marine as when I left Parris Island.

[greensideout]

gatormatt,

Your apology is accepted. (With reserve)

My brother-in law served with the Air Force in JAG. He had no real desire to become a military man so left the service when his required time ended. Draw upon that as you may.
He has had a huge success in corporate law. That was his goal.

My question to you is, what is your true goal. Without knowing that, I can only view your questions and statements as they pertain to the Marine Corps. It's not an easy title to earn. You must want it more then anything else in life while you try.
If that is truely what you want, then you have come to the right place to learn about the Corps. We hope to guide those that desire to become a Marine. Sometimes we weed out a few that think that their belly button is the center of the universe.

You mention my profile. It only shows service in the Marine Corps as is appropriate for this site. It does not show my active service with another branch, time of service, rank, etc.
Be careful that your assumptions don't set a trap for you.
In business, they'll eat you alive.
In combat, that will get you killed.
The point? It will get others killed as well!

[gatormatt]

thank you greensideout. that is the type of information i'm looking for. would it be possible for me to talk with your brother. i'm having a very difficult time obtaining information as to how assignments are given as far as JAG. it seems to me that everyone tries criminal cases, but there has to be other facets, such as writing contracts, torts, etc.

as for my true goal: my true goal is to make a difference. i know that i will become a Marine, that is what i want, and i have the drive to get it, no matter what. i also realize that becoming a Marine offers me the chance to make a difference for myself, but more importantly the world.

i'd like to extend my apology again. this time with a little more sincerity and a little less sarcasm. i will be more respectful from now on and hoepfully that will lead to more helpful answers from the rest of the group. once again, i apologize.

now i have to go run. thanks again.

[wrbones]

There ya go, Gatormatt. Yer on the right track now, I think. The Marine Corps wil knock that 'I' stuff right outta ya. Guess we'll see when ya hit PLC mebbe. ;)

I'm tellin' ya, big whip, we got a lot of info on the site that will stand you in good stead if you choose to read it.

[lurchenstein]

"...Proud to Serve..."

[wrbones]

stuff about USMC 'JAG'


http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4316

[gatormatt]

thanks

[usmc4669]

gatormatt
Man looks like you have been tried and found guilty. If you are over 18 then make up your own mind, go for it, a tour in the Marine Corps won't hurt you, if anything it will give you more confidences in yourself.

MAJMike

At ease, gentlemen.

First thing that I agree with you on.

[gatormatt]

Wow that post was a long time ago, I had forgotten about it. Since then I've gone to the juniors of OCS and will attend seniors this coming summer. I wish I knew then what I know now, because I would have dealt with the questions and answers on this board in a more respectful manner.

This website has been very helpful and extremely motivating and I'm just glad that my prior comments did not cause all the members to alienate me.

Gunnery Sgt., I agree that a few tours in the Corps will give me tremendous confidence in myself. Just one summer at Quantico has done so already, so I'm sure that a tour will do much more.

I am glad that there were no grudges held over from my original posts last year because the members of this board continue to provide me with information.


Matt

[lprkn]

Gatormatt,

Congrats on getting one summer done. I do have a question. I am currently in college, and I enlisted in the Marine Reserves with the intention of going to PLC next summer (apparently there are a certain number of spots open to reservists). Basically, those that were there that were already Marines, did they seem a little bit more on track or have a little easier time of it? Just wondering.

[MAJMike]

USMC4669

Gunny:

I'm sure that there are a lot more things that you and I agree on than we disagree on. Sometimes I add a little seasoning to these discussions just to see where they go.

Things I believe in:

1) The United States Marine Corps is by far rhe finest fighting force on the face of this planet.

2) There is no title or honor in life greater than "Marine."

3) Everything that I am today, every bit of confidence and success in my personal life I owe to the values, confidence and ability to overcome obstacles that I learned as both and enlisted man and officer in the United States Marine Corps.

4) I value the freedoms that I enjoy as an American and will defend to my death these freedoms for myself, my children, their children, you, your children and your children's children. Among these are Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Expression. What annoys me about this board is that people "parrot" statements and philosophies that they get from (mostly conservative) radio talk show hosts, or read in some magazine or newspaper without doing any thinking for themselves. It's not the statement of political philosophy that bugs me, it is the fact that Marines who have been trained to assimilate information and make decisions while on actibve duty let others do this for tham once they are retired. Or, those that would chastise any individual for exercising their hard won rights gets my dander up. Case in point - the other day a few members of this forum referred to Senator John Kerry as a "traitor" for protesting the Viet Nam War thirty years ago. While I don't necessarily defend Senator Kerry, and may not buy into his reasoning, I DO defend his right to express his opinion in a lawful manner. That's what this country is all about. Just because someone has a different political philosophy than yours, it doesn't give you the right to call the man a traitor. Lawful protest is one of the bellweathers of our democracy and has stood her well for more than 225 years. When we lose the ability to protest lawfully or to voice our opinions or to keep our religion personal, then we, as a country, become no better than those political systems that we have given a good part of our lives and effort to defeat.

As the English philospher Edmund Burke stated, and was quoted by Patrick Henry "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Carry on, Gunnery Sergeant.

Semper Fi

MR Ventura
MAJ USMCR
1968-1975

[gatormatt]

lprkn, we had about six or seven reservists in my platoon. They mainly had motor t type MOS. As far as being more on track I would say yes. Seemed like they always did everything faster. Things like drill were much easier to them since they had already learned it. The down side was that they were expected to be better, so their mistakes had more severe consequences. After the first couple of weeks everyone figures out what they need to get done and the knowledge gap becomes a little less noticeable.
I wish you luck with the reserves, college, and OCS.

Matt