Your probably gonna think I'm a big pussy after this.

[TheBiggness]

I'm as drunk as they come right now. But earlier today I told My mom I'm gonna join 0311 rifleman. and after a few in the fleet i'm shooting for recon. But man it makes me sick thinking how my parents are gonna worry about me joining infantry. Personaly I don't care, but I'm effecting the people who care about me the most. Damn this is tough, could someone share with me some advise.

[Christ0ph]

Tell your parents that driving your car on the freeway is more dangerous than being a Rifleman, it really is! My parents couldn't be prouder of my 03xx contract....well, one of them is a retired FORCE Recon Marine hehe. They'll come around sooner or later, while it is possible you could be maimed and killed as a Rifleman...it's by no means a death sentance by signing up as one.

[RuffNight2007]

Wow... Dude, your a BIG *****.

I'm jk. Not THAT big.

Watch YOUR LANGUAGE POOLEE'S;)

Ellie

[SkilletsUSMC]

As far as being a Grunt, you have to make that choice for yourself, and not worry at all about how scared your folks are. When you have stopped putting thier feelings ahead of what you wnat to do is when you have finally become a man


Tell your parents that driving your car on the freeway is more dangerous than being a Rifleman, it really is!

Im not so sure thats true.

Im not saying this to scare anyone. I LOVE the grunts! I think its the best job in the Marine Corps, but before you join you need to be real about it.

Assuming the Infantry is 10% of the Marine Corps, that would give us about 17,500 grunts. Lets say most 03s have been twice, and half have gotten out and about the same have just got in, so we will round that number up to 50% more which equals 26,250 total grunts served in Iraq.

The Marine KIA numbers stand at about 896 as of today. Now lets say 70%(atleast) of those KIA are 03xx That figures to be about 627 Infantry Marines KIA.

26,250 total grunts served divided by aprox 627 KIA

26,250/627 = 41.87 or a 1/42 chance of becoming a KIA. or a 2.3% chance of dying in country from enemy fire.

As a grunt in Iraq you will spend ALOT more time outside the wire where you can be killed or wounded by anything imagineable then inside the wire where the only threat is incoming fire.

Im thinking that I have ALOT better odds at starting my car and driving down the road today than I did when I was in Iraq.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

Skillets, I could crunch the numbers and show it is much more dangerous to be an 18 year old in Philly than in Iraq. It just depends how you look at the numbers. No way to deny that it is dangerous to be a grunt, but everything worth doing has some level of risk associated with it.

Biggness, do what you want to do. Your family will worry about you plenty regardless of what MOS you happen to select.

[TheBiggness]

Yeah sorry about that post. To much whisky and thinking to much.

[maverickmarine]

Yeah sorry about that post. To much whisky and thinking to much.

I thought you might rethink that once your brainhousing unit cleared up, LOL.

[poolee18]

its youre choice i chose 0300 and my mom flipped but i didnt care what she thought in no way im mad at my mom or baggin on her it her job to look out for me i made the choice she wasnt to happy after i signed the contract but after a couple of months she started to support me for going into the infantry it all works out in the long run

[SkilletsUSMC]

Skillets, I could crunch the numbers and show it is much more dangerous to be an 18 year old in Philly than in Iraq. It just depends how you look at the numbers. No way to deny that it is dangerous to be a grunt, but everything worth doing has some level of risk associated with it.

Biggness, do what you want to do. Your family will worry about you plenty regardless of what MOS you happen to select.

All I was trying to get across was that it IS dangerous. One of the posters actually said it was more dangerous to drive on the freeway than to be a grunt (or any other MOS outside the wire)in combat. Thats absurd! No one is TRYING to kill you on the freeway here.

[motivatedpoolee]

you should've been a math teacher.. JK

but really. i understood your whole breakdown..

normally i suck at math and determining an average at something

which is why my asvab probably was only 43.

ooh i got a question for other poolees and or Marines.

If i am in DEP, can I re-take the asvab? or do i have to wait until I am out of DEP?

[Phantom Blooper]

Yeah sorry about that post. To much whisky and thinking to much.


WHY are YOU drinking whiskey at 19 ???

:evilgrin:

[STA0311]

WHY are YOU drinking whiskey at 19 ???

:evilgrin:

See that is what I was thinking...he wants to be Recon YET admits to all online, in an open forum that he is irresponsible because he likes it to be know that he drinks underage...good start guy!

[cplbrooks]

We used to drink at age 18 on base :sick: I forgot to mention that it was legal at the time. Drinking age on base used to be 18. I am not sure why they changed it. I guess too many people F***ed it up for everybody else. At 33 it doesnt bother me that it is 21 but i try to be understanding about it for the younger guys and just give them the speech about being responsible and moderation etc...

I know that some may disagree but i still believe that if you are old enough to die for your country and have signed up to defend your country than you should be able to have a beer.

Civilian legal drinking age should be 21 and military drinking age should be 18.

[SkilletsUSMC]

We used to drink at age 18 on base :sick: I forgot to mention that it was legal at the time. Drinking age on base used to be 18. I am not sure why they changed it. I guess too many people F***ed it up for everybody else. At 33 it doesnt bother me that it is 21 but i try to be understanding about it for the younger guys and just give them the speech about being responsible and moderation etc...

I know that some may disagree but i still believe that if you are old enough to die for your country and have signed up to defend your country than you should be able to have a beer.

Civilian legal drinking age should be 21 and military drinking age should be 18.

CPL Brooks I agree 100% I am 28, so its a moot point now, but I drank like it was cool when I was underage. It should be legal to drink with a military ID. watch how many kids sign up after that!!!:D

[Soon2BeVIP]

i hear its less fun when its legal though...:p

[RuffNight2007]

Civilian legal drinking age should be 21 and military drinking age should be 18.

:thumbup:
I love this Marine! :bunny:

[TheBiggness]

Look I wasen't trying to sound cool or anything, that second statement was the truth. And I have done an outstanding job makeing an ass of myself with this thread.

[Phantom Blooper]

I agree 100% that the drinking age should be lowered if one wants to partake. If you can fight and die as the old saying goes you should be able to drink. Too many alcohol related incidents changed military policy. MADD & congress changed the legal age.

But the fact of the matter is at 19 and on a public forum and keeping your nose clean to join the Marine Corps admitting drinking and being drunk is in this young mans own words...
And I have done an outstanding job makeing an ass of myself with this thread.

:evilgrin:

[YLDNDN6]

Drinking only becomes less fun when you can't afford it!!! Seriously, there is nothing cool about the stupid stuff you do while drunk, and nothing ruins a perfectly good morning like a hangover. If you don't already drink, don't start! Now that I have made my public service announcement, I'm gonna grab a beer!

[killerinstinct]

I'm as drunk as they come right now. But earlier today I told My mom I'm gonna join 0311 rifleman. and after a few in the fleet i'm shooting for recon. But man it makes me sick thinking how my parents are gonna worry about me joining infantry. Personaly I don't care, but I'm effecting the people who care about me the most. Damn this is tough, could someone share with me some advise.

mom's do that man they are put on this earth to worry about our safety. Sometimes they do it way too often WAY TOO often..


But i think it might be one because of the risk but you are your own man now. You should go to boot with a good relationship with your mom. I left with a bit of bad terms or not so bad but the things i did while a punk in high school.

Just sit and talk but it boils down to she is your mom and after you do it or whatever choice you do decide to make mothers will always be proud of you and back you up, even though they might not agree.

[maysoon]

As far as being a Grunt, you have to make that choice for yourself, and not worry at all about how scared your folks are. When you have stopped putting thier feelings ahead of what you wnat to do is when you have finally become a man



Im not so sure thats true.

Im not saying this to scare anyone. I LOVE the grunts! I think its the best job in the Marine Corps, but before you join you need to be real about it.

Assuming the Infantry is 10% of the Marine Corps, that would give us about 17,500 grunts. Lets say most 03s have been twice, and half have gotten out and about the same have just got in, so we will round that number up to 50% more which equals 26,250 total grunts served in Iraq.

The Marine KIA numbers stand at about 896 as of today. Now lets say 70%(atleast) of those KIA are 03xx That figures to be about 627 Infantry Marines KIA.

26,250 total grunts served divided by aprox 627 KIA

26,250/627 = 41.87 or a 1/42 chance of becoming a KIA. or a 2.3% chance of dying in country from enemy fire.

As a grunt in Iraq you will spend ALOT more time outside the wire where you can be killed or wounded by anything imagineable then inside the wire where the only threat is incoming fire.

Im thinking that I have ALOT better odds at starting my car and driving down the road today than I did when I was in Iraq.

Wow, that is it? I thought the odds would be higher. What were the odds at IWO Jima, Korea, and Vietnam respectably? So is it also true that most of the 0311's will return a whole tour of Active duty seeing combat, but not having exchange fire with the enemy? Meaning not having killed anyone on average too? What are the odds for this?

[The1stSgt]

When determining the state legal drinking age, legislators are influenced by groups like MADD, law enforcment agencies, etc.

They also consult with alcohol groups like NIAAA, and the medical sciences, e.g. neuroscience, biology, psychiatry, psychology, etc.

The human brain does not fully develop until around age twenty-one, especially in the areas of mature judgment and rational thought. This has a lot to do with the drinking age being set at twenty-one.

[poolee18]

When determining the state legal drinking age, legislators are influenced by groups like MADD, law enforcment agencies, etc.

They also consult with alcohol groups like NIAAA, and the medical sciences, e.g. neuroscience, biology, psychiatry, psychology, etc.

The human brain does not fully develop until around age twenty-one, especially in the areas of mature judgment and rational thought. This has a lot to do with the drinking age being set at twenty-one.

I never thought about that I just figured that the government and all of the organizations just wanted to make the drinking age 21 so that it will make life harder on teenagers

[Hachiro]

I never thought about that I just figured that the government and all of the organizations just wanted to make the drinking age 21 so that it will make life harder on teenagers

Actually another thing "they" want to do is save lives.

[JohnWayne]

See that is what I was thinking...he wants to be Recon YET admits to all online, in an open forum that he is irresponsible because he likes it to be know that he drinks underage...good start guy!

If you can see over the bar you should be allowed to.

[SkilletsUSMC]

Wow, that is it? I thought the odds would be higher. What were the odds at IWO Jima, Korea, and Vietnam respectably? So is it also true that most of the 0311's will return a whole tour of Active duty seeing combat, but not having exchange fire with the enemy? Meaning not having killed anyone on average too? What are the odds for this?

I can tell you one thing. The ratio of KIA/WIA Marines is alot better nowdays. You have to be realistic about the war. Of course the odds are better than korea and Iwo jima. The difference is those were real Armies with real big guns that were well dug in. I would be willing to bet the Marines have het to lose a firefight, but the goal of the Muj isnt to win directly, just to cause casualties.

As far as the odd for getting a kill, or direct action firefights and such, I have no way to determine that. But I will say it is possible, depending on their Area of Operations, billet, extreme cold and heat, what the attitude of the locals is, how easy of a target you make your self... yada yada.

The point is that Being in country is alot more dangerous than driving down the freeway.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

As a cop, I can tell you all about the stoopid things people do when "Under the Influence". That having been said, I think those that are serving in the military (BTW, that means SERVING, not 'poolees') should be allowed to drink and would have no issue with it whatsoever.

Drinking, in moderation, is not a bad thing overall. However, like all things, taken to extremes, it tends to make one do stupid things. Highly stooopid things, which result in you seeing my pretty blue light show in your rear view mirror, or flashing off the front window of your house.

On another note, you have to live YOUR life, when it comes to the 0300 deal. Parents will worry no matter what, that is the nature of that particular beast; it's their MOS to worry. You are doing something bigger than yourself, and while they may worry, they will also be very proud. Eventually, the 'proud' will overcome the worry to a large degree.

As far as 'odds', go, there are more criminal homicides in this country per year than military deaths in ALL the war zones, combined. There were around 17,000 homicides in the US in 2005, according to the crime statistics. Many of those were young males killing one another. Statistically speaking, the leading cause of death for males 18-22 is either car crashes or homicide, depending on one's demographics and area of the country.

That is NOT, by any means, to discount the casualty rates in Iraq at present, but you would have to do a complete break down of MOS and KIA/WIA to get the 'correct' numbers there, including all services.

[JohnWayne]

As far as 'odds', go, there are more criminal homicides in this country per year than military deaths in ALL the war zones, combined. There were around 17,000 homicides in the US in 2005, according to the crime statistics. Many of those were young males killing one another. Statistically speaking, the leading cause of death for males 18-22 is either car crashes or homicide, depending on one's demographics and area of the country.

That is NOT, by any means, to discount the casualty rates in Iraq at present, but you would have to do a complete break down of MOS and KIA/WIA to get the 'correct' numbers there, including all services.

You have a point there but what bugs me these days is the propaganda you see on FOX news or CNN... some 3000 casualities in Iraq is a terrible understatement. 3000 died on the spot, in country. Between 10 and 20 thousand died in hospitals in Germany as a result of their injuries... do they not count?

[Sgt Leprechaun]

10 and 20 thousand? Where in the world are you getting those numbers, might I ask????

You might want to double check that. Triple check. All casaulties are reported on the DOD totals. All of them. I know, since I get an email from DoD every time a servicemember dies, either KIA, or DOW. (That's 'Died of Wounds').

Try a different sort of "propaganda", or provide a factual link to that claim of "10-20 thousand died in Germany".

[drumcorpssnare]

SgtLeprechaun- "JohnWayne" is probably referring to WW II stats!!!:D
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[JohnWayne]

10 and 20 thousand? Where in the world are you getting those numbers, might I ask????

You might want to double check that. Triple check. All casaulties are reported on the DOD totals. All of them. I know, since I get an email from DoD every time a servicemember dies, either KIA, or DOW. (That's 'Died of Wounds').

Try a different sort of "propaganda", or provide a factual link to that claim of "10-20 thousand died in Germany".

I'll be happy to find the link for you. A guy that loses 2 legs and an arm usually doesn't make it I'm afraid. Between 10 and 20 is my estimate (fairly broad but large even at 10.) for now because I read in August of 06 that some 11.5 thousand died of their injuries weeks or even months later. On the other hand I do understand why you'd prefer to believe the casualties as small as possible, but it's unrealistic. On CNN they talked about a guy who died 5 months after his tour because he had a weaker heart from an injury that lead to operation. He just shut down like a 70 year old man; hardly natural cause right? It was on an English documentary so I'm sure I can dig it up online.

Edit; and just to be clear, we're talking overall American deaths, not just Marines.

[TheBiggness]

you way over estimated.


http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/


http://i.cnn.net/cnn/1.gif
There have been 3,444 coalition deaths -- 3,187 Americans, two Australians, 133 Britons, 13 Bulgarians, six Danes, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Fijian, one Hungarian, 32 Italians, one Kazakh, three Latvian, 19 Poles, two Romanians, five Salvadoran, four Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 18 Ukrainians -- in the war in Iraq as of March 7, 2007, according to a CNN count.

and this includes the ones who died from injurys 1 day or more after being injured.

Now be proud of them, they have paid more for freedom than you have.

[JohnWayne]

you way over estimated.


http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/


http://i.cnn.net/cnn/1.gif
There have been 3,444 coalition deaths -- 3,187 Americans, two Australians, 133 Britons, 13 Bulgarians, six Danes, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Fijian, one Hungarian, 32 Italians, one Kazakh, three Latvian, 19 Poles, two Romanians, five Salvadoran, four Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 18 Ukrainians -- in the war in Iraq as of March 7, 2007, according to a CNN count.

and this includes the ones who died from injurys 1 day or more after being injured.

Now be proud of them, they have paid more for freedom than you have.

Again, I respect what they did and that you believe these numbers, but just remember how propaganda is a foundation for any government, even, if not especially the U.S. The Nazis, the Soviets, and every other state has relied on suppressing the facts. Either way I've had enough talk of how many have died over this. In 20 years, we'll see what numbers are "re-evaluated" but just think that for the first 10 after the Holocaust, the total death toll was under 4 million. Today it's recognized around 11. http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif

[devildoghopeful]

Actually it's recognised that 6million Jews died in the Holocaust, not 11.

[JohnWayne]

Actually it's recognised that 6million Jews died in the Holocaust, not 11.

Yes sir. 6 million Jews, and another 5 million Slavs, Communists, Gypsies, and political provocateurs. 6+5=11. 6 is just over half of 11. Jews weren't the only ones that suffered.

[devildoghopeful]

My bad, I assumed that 'Holocaust' meant Jews only because it's Hebrew (meaning 'to be completely consumed by fire' if my general knowledge serves me correctly)

[JohnWayne]

My bad, I assumed that 'Holocaust' meant Jews only because it's Hebrew (meaning 'to be completely consumed by fire' if my general knowledge serves me correctly)

That's OK. Believe me, nothing would make me happier than to be completely wrong about the casualties in Iraq being huge. And as for the Holocaust, its a typical thing they teach poorly in highschool; they teach more about how the Jews were attacked for their religion in hopes for some moral lesson, than actual historical items. Funny thing is, Holocaust was first used by the Germans describing the Dresden massacre (Hundreds of thousands of German women and children running from the Communists flocked in the city of Dresden. The war was basically over, and ChurchHill wanted to thump his chest at Stalin, so they firebombed the place. Anyway, these people burned alive on the streets and suffocated, kind of like a giant napalming. Hence the origin of being consumed by fire.)

[traumajunkie13]

All I was trying to get across was that it IS dangerous. One of the posters actually said it was more dangerous to drive on the freeway than to be a grunt (or any other MOS outside the wire)in combat. Thats absurd! No one is TRYING to kill you on the freeway here.

actually someone is killed by a dui driver every 6 seconds on the roadways. but i agree it is dangerous but it is your option unless you go open contract. but as they say every marines first mos is a basic rifleman which would mean infantry so either way you just may end up with a rifle in your hand some time or another

[DWG]

All I was trying to get across was that it IS dangerous. One of the posters actually said it was more dangerous to drive on the freeway than to be a grunt (or any other MOS outside the wire)in combat. Thats absurd! No one is TRYING to kill you on the freeway here.


C'mon down to Central Florida; you might change your tune! :scared: I feel like I'm going through MIG alley everyday on the way to and from work. I can't believe they are ALL coincidences or incompetence on the part of others! (I, of course, am a perfect driver:angel: )

[SkilletsUSMC]

You have a point there but what bugs me these days is the propaganda you see on FOX news or CNN... some 3000 casualities in Iraq is a terrible understatement. 3000 died on the spot, in country. Between 10 and 20 thousand died in hospitals in Germany as a result of their injuries... do they not count?

Youre out of your mind!

Trust me, ALL DOD deaths are reported, to include service related deaths after returning. TOTAL WIA stands at 23,417 as of FEB 07. Some of those numbrs are second and third "awards" So how could there be 10-20K KIAs with equal nubers of WOUNDED troops. You need to stop speaking so matter-of-fact when you havent been there. How do you know its propaganda?

http://icasualties.org/oif/

The only thing I can think of that would change that number is Private Security, and yes they have died, but theres not nearly enough of them there to come up with those numbers.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Thanks Skillets. You are right on the money.

And, JW, if you really think that many 'additional' have died, don't you suppose that the media, which isn't exactly in the business of covering up for this administration, wouldn't be trumpeting those numbers from the rooftops, with big ole banner headlines?

It's not some vast conspiracy, because it's not happening.

That having been said, if, for example, a WWII veteran dies from injuries he rec'vd on D-Day, (complications, etc) today, I don't believe he would be added to the talley of total KIA.

Oh, lastly, as far as those amputees you are talking about, there survival rate that is, show me the statistics on them as well.

Believe it or not, I bet I've done 5 times the research on amputees, amputations, and whatnot, through the wars, as you have. You see, in my alter ego, I'm a Civil War reenactor, a Surgeon to be exact, and have consulted on various and sundry things dealing with that exact issue. The survival rate of multiple amputees is far greater than you realize. Even from WWII.

There is an old saying about 'assumptions' here. You are making them, I believe. Therefore, it's now time to 'put up', or stand down. Provide some sort of factual information in regard to the casualty rates. Provide some sort of factual information in reference to the amputees.

Otherwise, it's just bloviating opinion, and should be announced as such.

[rvillac2]

Fellow Marines,

I think you're giving JW and his statements too much attention. Personally, I do not think he has had anything useful to contribute to this community and his membership should be reviewed. From what we've learned about him, there is little possibility that he will end up enlisting.

Clearly, he is somewhat intelligent and well read for a 16 yr old. However, it is also clear to me that his home schooling agenda has a liberal slant (thanks to Mom, perhaps?). He lacks the most basic American traits including an appreciation for our flag (see the flag vandalism posts) and the intelligence of our citizens (referring to this propoganda nonsense).

JW,
Good luck completing your studies and pursuing your career goals. However, I think I speak for many here by saying that we don't think you'll make it in our Corps (or even earn citizenship in our country). If you like playing with guns and have a desire to be Rambo, maybe you should be cruising the Soldier of Fortune website.

Sgt V
A Truly American Marine