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thedrifter
02-13-07, 07:27 AM
Basic training gone soft? <br />
<br />
A Marine claims Army recruits are coddled, and soldiers agree <br />
By Kelly Kennedy - Staff writer <br />
Posted : February 19, 2007 <br />
<br />
You might say that Marine Capt. Josh Gibbs...

10thzodiac
02-13-07, 09:29 AM
WTF, doesn't the Army know if they keep this up, they wont have anybody worth sending to war ? http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/22.gif

MacAngus
02-13-07, 10:17 AM
I'm in a VA group witha bunch of army dogs and I'm the only Marine. Of course I'm out numbered but all these guys think is that Army boot is at least as hard as the MARINE CORPS boot camp and of course I compare stories with them. I can't wait to print this out and show it to them we are all iraq and afghan vets and for the most part they are younger than me. I waited 2 years after coming home to got to the VA so most have just gotten out of the service and most say they proboly had it tougher than US. I knew Thier boot was easy but I've seen brownie troops and cub scouts doing harder training than these lot of losers.

MacAngus
02-13-07, 10:28 AM
sorry my computer is screwed up.

maverickmarine
02-13-07, 11:46 AM
Yeah, I am freakin' cuttin' and pasting this bad boy for my friends that are Army pukes right now, LOL.

bootlace15
02-13-07, 02:29 PM
ARMY STRONG OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

bootlace15 out

join the ARMY they have babysitters

jost03
02-13-07, 02:56 PM
Just remember "theres nothing stronger than an army soldier, strong. army strong" WHAT A LOAD OF ****! if these pussys cant pass a PT test let alone fill up a ****ing! theres gonna be a lot of dead army dogs piling up in Grave Regristration cuz they didnt know what the hell there doing. GOD that ****es me off!!!!!!!!!!!

Phantom Winger
02-13-07, 04:12 PM
All the Army has to do is look at the public school system to see how this approach will fare. Teachers and administrators aren't allowed to discipline other than suspending the student and sending them home to apathetic parents responsible for the students behavior in the first place.

I showed this article to a coworker (retired Army) who I respect. His first observation was that most of the NCO's agreed with the Marine's call while the brass thought otherwise. Who has to deal with it in the end?

Personal responsibility today is much like common sense... uncommon.

RLeon
02-13-07, 04:44 PM
I keep hearing about how it's a societal problem...well duh, the whole point of boot camp is to take the society out of a boot and make him into a war fighter. Basic training in any branch should never change to fit "society" as as far as discipline goes, the only thing that should evolve and change is techniques due to technological and strategic advancement. Uniforms, weapons, tactics will change, but honor, respect, and military bearing should never be deemphasized to fit society's whims. And yes we are guilty of bending too...I remember when DI's would tell us that we couldn't do certain types of training becuase Mothers of America didn't like it.

10thzodiac
02-13-07, 05:23 PM
If anyone has seen the documentary movie, "Hearts & Minds" [Vietnam], do you recall the army lieutenant saying, when on patrol [bait] they'd just go outside the perimeter and camp until it was time to come back. Or when the colonel was directing their ops from a chopper above, being told to go North, they'd go South. http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif

DWG
02-13-07, 05:34 PM
I keep hearing about how it's a societal problem...well duh, . And yes we are guilty of bending too...I remember when DI's would tell us that we couldn't do certain types of training becuase Mothers of America didn't like it.

I don't recall any of our Drill Instructors asking anybodys' mother about training techniques or whether they had any input!
:nerd:


:D :banana:

3077India
02-13-07, 06:38 PM
I was told by an old army ranger, that only Army special forces units like Delta Force and Army Rangers receive training comparable to what army basic used to be about 30 or 40 years ago.

10thzodiac
02-13-07, 07:46 PM
I was stationed with the 173rd Airborne for two years. We shared Camp Sukeran [Zukeran now Foster].

I was with the 12th Marines Artillery (cannon pogues) my barracks [Regiment] was less than 35 feet from the Air-Borne Brigade. These guys were no slouches, if I was a betting man my money would be on the 173rd. Crack outfit.

The army has pouges, but they have elite outfits also. Marines have Force Recon and pogues.

Kid yourselves not...

RLeon
02-13-07, 08:00 PM
I was stationed with the 173rd Airborne for two years.
he army has pouges, but they have elite outfits also. Marines have Force Recon and pogues.

Kid yourselves not...
Wow, your right...I never realized that. Dang, what a bunch of chumps the Marines are, stressing discipline, when all along they could have lowered their standards and still have elite outfits like the Army...gee I wasted my time, I should have just joined the Army...;)

Seriousy, yes the Army has elite units and the Corps pogues, but our pogues are tougher and more disciplined than their pogues...:D

10thzodiac
02-13-07, 08:11 PM
Wow, your right...I never realized that. Dang, what a bunch of chumps the Marines are, stressing discipline, when all along they could have lowered their standards and still have elite outfits liek the Army...gee I wasted my time, I should have just joined the Army...;)

Seriousy, yes the Army has elite units and the Corps pogues, but our pogues are tougher and more disciplined that their pogues...:D

What percentage of Marines are Force Recon [Elite] ? Anybody that can run can be a grunt, but how many can be elite [Force Recon], is the point ? Yes our pogues are tougher than theirs, plus are uniforms look better http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

SkilletsUSMC
02-13-07, 08:16 PM
What percentage of Marines are Force Recon [Elite] ? Anybody that can run can be a grunt, but how many can be elite [Force Recon], is the point ? Yes our pogues are tougher than theirs, plus are uniforms look better http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Youre not serriously comparing the 173rd airborne to Force Recon are you 10th?

RLeon
02-13-07, 08:28 PM
What percentage of Marines are Force Recon [Elite] ? Anybody that can run can be a grunt, but how many can be elite [Force Recon], is the point ?
That's irrelevent, it's a well known scientific and establish fact that a basic non-rate Marine(Boot fresh out of MCRD) is already "elite" compared to a basic soldier in the ARMY.

Yes our pogues are tougher than theirs, plus are uniforms look better http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif
Exactly!

capmarine
02-13-07, 09:55 PM
ft jackson was on TV a year ago,some female Col. speaking how they were going to be more kinder and gentler-a bunch of crap.now the other Army basics i cant speak for,like benning,i hope they havent turned into mush-they are the home of the infantry for gosh sakes.
if any of you havent been to MCRDSD in the last few years(ive been there several time over the last 5yrs)you would not be disappointed in the training-i would not want to go through bootcamp now!!!!

10thzodiac
02-13-07, 09:59 PM
That's irrelevent, it's a well known scientific and establish fact that a basic non-rate Marine(Boot fresh out of MCRD) is already "elite" compared to a basic soldier in the ARMY.

Exactly!

So you're a killer!

Sir, yes sir!

Then let me see your war face!

[nervously] Sir?

You got a war face! ARRRRRRRRRGH! That's a war face, let me see your war face!

Ahhhh!

Bull****, you didn't convince me, let me see your REAL war face!
Ahhhhhh!

You still don't scare me! Work on it!

RLeon
02-13-07, 11:54 PM
So you're a killer!

Sir, yes sir!

Then let me see your war face!

[nervously] Sir?

You got a war face! ARRRRRRRRRGH! That's a war face, let me see your war face!

Ahhhh!

Bull****, you didn't convince me, let me see your REAL war face!
Ahhhhhh!

You still don't scare me! Work on it!
Here's my war face.
http://kfcplainfield.com/tv/gomer2.jpg

ErikHeiker
02-14-07, 02:38 AM
I'll get a first-hand account of Army basic at Ft Jackson when my stepson completes his training there in April. When I was in bootcamp, the DIs had no qualms about beating the crap out of recruits. The worst case was at the range at the beginning of live fire. Those who couldn't pass on the first day, even though it wasn't for qual or pre-qual, were beaten mercilessly. I'll never forget watching the walls of the DI's hooch buckling outward as recruit after recruit was beaten and slammed into the wall. Every one of them was doubled over and barely on his feet as he came out. Something like that definitely makes an impression on you!

RLeon
02-14-07, 01:08 PM
I'll get a first-hand account of Army basic at Ft Jackson when my stepson completes his training there in April. When I was in bootcamp, the DIs had no qualms about beating the crap out of recruits. The worst case was at the range at the beginning of live fire. Those who couldn't pass on the first day, even though it wasn't for qual or pre-qual, were beaten mercilessly. I'll never forget watching the walls of the DI's hooch buckling outward as recruit after recruit was beaten and slammed into the wall. Every one of them was doubled over and barely on his feet as he came out. Something like that definitely makes an impression on you!
My dad did his basic training in Ft. Jackson eons ago...I bet his treatment was a bit different than what your stepson is going through.
:)

RLeon
02-14-07, 01:14 PM
...they had long hair back then.

Sgt Leprechaun
02-15-07, 09:04 PM
I see the "Arrrrrhhhmmmy" up front and personal every single day. Now, granted, I work at a "medical" base/command, so these are def. the 'touchy feely' of the army, but I've noticed a few things thus far:

I've seen exactly 2 guys wearing Combat Medical Badges come to my post. 1 was here a year, and I just saw him checking out, I figured he'd EAS'd...Nope...re-enlisted to get back to the 'real' army and Iraq, couldnt' tolerate the BS anymore of a stateside post. Coincidence? He was a SP4.

The remainder of the 'medical' types, only about 50 percent have a 'combat patch' on the right sleeve, meaning they served time in a combat zone (or at least deployed to a 'combat area' even if they never left the Green Zone). That means the other half, in nearly five years of this war (both Iraq/Afganistan) have yet to even leave the states. That should tellya somethin.


We do more 'kinder/gentler' crap in a week than most people do in a decade. It's disgusting. 90 percent of the 'soldiers' assigned to where I am, couldn't lead a patrol out of the head, with a maglite and a map. These guys get little to no field time, practice with weapons, or anything else even remotely 'army' related.

The "real" (and I use that term lightly) soldiers that I've talked to all say the new "touchy feely" training regimen they are doing now, will do nothing but kill soldiers in combat.

Note that in the article, the only people defending this new and improved training, are the people with the most to lose (career wise) if it tanks (as time will prove, it will). The Colonels, the career drill instructors (the one guy quoted is from the ninety somethingth training division, which is a reserve drill instructor/cadre unit), and other ticket punchers. I bet if you look at MOS's, you'll find very few, if any, door kickers and trigger pullers, being quoted as thinking this training is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I submit that the army, in an attempt to be all things to all people, will eventually return to the drug addled, discipline problem outfit it was in the 1970's.

NowArmyMP
02-15-07, 09:33 PM
Well I am active duty Army now but went to Army boot camp back in 1983 and Marine Corps boot camp in 1987. The Marine Corps will always be better when it comes to discipline but my drill sergeants in the Army didnt play. Anyway, over 20 years later and serving now with the 101st Airborne Division, times have change. Soldiers got it much better than what I went through in basic. A lot more passes and drill sergeants that have to lighten up with the yelling but its all about the numbers nowanddays. NCOs at my unit are very strict with new soldiers and PT is no joke. These soldiers do 4 to 6 miles runs often as well as 12 mile force marches all of the time. Plus they have to get air assault qualified. I went to combat with these joes and they performed superbly. But yes, army boot camp has soften and sadly the Marine Corps has too. I hear stories now that will never fly in my day. Remember we losing servicemen everyday in Iraq; regardless if they are Army or Marines; yet the rivalry between services will always remain. I saw Marines do crazy, undisciplined stuff in Iraq getting unnecessarily killed. Its all up to the leaders to train the combat troops to do the job right.

SkilletsUSMC
02-15-07, 10:40 PM
I saw Marines do crazy, undisciplined stuff in Iraq getting unnecessarily killed. Its all up to the leaders to train the combat troops to do the job right.

This post is about to send me into the ****ing stratosphere. I understand that you are a former Marine, so I will keep it light as you are a brother, but i'll be *******ED if I ever hear another soldier claim that Marines were "undiciplined' in Iraq. The army infantry in Iraq was a ****ing joke!!!!!!!!! B*tch ass f*gs wont even get out of thier trucks to patrol. They were no sh*t scared. They were big fat ****s too. And they were regualr army, not reserves.

We came to an army AO and drove up and down route Irish (the armys so called most dangerous route) and only got in ONE fire fight. The locals said they didnt like to mess with the "soldiers with the square pattern cammies" we dropped the hammer on them and Ali Baba never showed up again if there were Marines arround. Once we left the army unit had 36 KIA...:mad: On my next deployment, we moved in to help out the Army with the whole ethinc cleansing ****. We foot patroled towns that the army just drove through to put a check in the box. In two months we had killed every insurgent in the town, and rolled up multiple BN high value targets, and even one OGA/CENTCOM high value target that was living 1000m outside the Army FOB. Before we were there, FOB abu graihb was mortared every day, when we were there we were mortated TWICE! When the Marines left FOB abu graihb, MWR left too, because they didnt feel safe without us there.

And as for our bootcamp getting soft, you know what... When I was in bootcamp not so long ago, I was punched, kicked in the balls, and choked out on a regular basis. I was not the platoon ****bag. We had a recruit get his face burned with an Iron for not ironing properly. I guess that is soft....

MacAngus
02-16-07, 12:33 AM
****in A right skillets. I think we don't talk about **** that happened in our boot and what our D.I.'s did because we always think that it was waaay tougher back in the day. Still though our boot always was and always will be tougher than the army.Not only boot but the Marine Corps life.

yellowwing
02-16-07, 12:58 AM
The Theater Commander sent an Armoured Division through the wide open Karbala Gap, while 1st Battalion 1st Marines slugged through occupied territory in freakin' Humvees! :evilgrin:

NowArmyMP
02-16-07, 04:04 AM
ok relax devil dog. I am just speaking from experience since I served active in both services and been to boot in both services. you going to run into both good and bad in both services. I see marines drop out of runs at army airborne school and marines that come to the army fail army PT test. The soldiers that I fought with in Iraq are 101st Airborne Soldiers that are very aggressive and never backed down from a fight. I patrolled mostly mounted and dismounted as much as I could when possible and remember we doing year tours in Iraq. I been with soldiers deployed 3 times. (that is 3 whole years) which doesnt compare to marine deployments. I was at FOB McHenry at Hawijah and the Iraqis were scared ****less of the soldiers with the screaming eagle patch. The band of brothers show is based on us. If you think getting burned by an iron is enforcing discipline than brother you dont know about training. Those NCOs will get court martialed in a heartbeat for doing that. I enforce discipline 24 hours a day so I know. I apprehended alot of military. I met a former special ops soldier that told me that he was with the marines and and army on a mission and that they came under a SAF and marines just ran without any proper IMT and were killed asap. Soldiers were heavily involved in the firefirght and not one casualty. Like I said, I seen both positive and negative in both forces. Dont dog the army doggies. They are in the fight more and lost more. The mission outcome is the same. My gripe is that I just want soldiers to be more discipline. but yes, Marine Boot is harder that Army boot. always has, always will.

NowArmyMP
02-16-07, 04:18 AM
who knows how to delete pictures from your folder?

hmckinley
02-16-07, 05:41 AM
Started at the original post and what the hell, more I read the worse I got, now am ready to fitch a pit. The freaking army can be and will be called everything under the sun. Spending a stint in...

RLeon
02-16-07, 11:03 AM
I understand why Marines that join the other branched get offended when we critisize their new branch, it's hard to listen to someone berating something that your involved in, questioning your motives and dedication.
One thing...you left the USMC and became a part of a seperate entity, therefore you are subject to
Marine Corps order 1-567-echocharliefoxtrot-4alpha which states:

4a. - All members who have earned the title of U.S. Marine [wether by enlistment or commission] are qualified by this statute to berate, without inpunity and immune to any punitive law established past the date of 11/07/1775, any non Marine Corps service or any member of other armed services. This incudes all personell from the basic enlisted rank to general officer. Only recipients of the Unites States' various Medals of Honor are excluded, all lesser awards are open season.
If a Marine should leave the U.S.M.C he *forfiets this right and must withstand the of critizism from Marines currently on active, reserve or civilain status. Even if Marine becomes a part of a supposed "elite" unit.
* Once a Marine, Always a Marine clause applicable, therefore all former active Marines who enter other branches, reserve the right to critisize other branches and their personall except the United States Marine Corps,but he must still withstand criticism from fellow Marines.

:marine: :D

maverickmarine
02-16-07, 11:21 AM
That is outfreakinstanding!!!LMAO!

NowArmyMP
02-16-07, 03:18 PM
why cant opinions be posed without people feeling threatened or offended. there are many marines who go to other services because of the retention issues in the corps. I had an NJP; so damn what, and my MOS of 4063 allowed me to have a career outside of the service. the reason I returned was because of 9/11 and I wanted to do something. I am a staff-sergeant that should be selected to e-7 soon or will go warrant this year. No biggy. I was a computer programer on wall street and making big bucks. I got back in not because of the money its because of the love for the nation. anyway, I know numerous marines in the army now and they chose to switch services for whatever reason. nothing to do with re-code. point is that I have been fortunate to serve 17 years thus far and will get my 20 after my tour in Germany is done.

I see service bashing on each side of the token. army talking crap about the marines and vice-versa. we should be man enough to forget what service does what because each service has its own mission. I can ridicule the navy and air force for them not being hardcore. But again, like I said, I talk from experience (I am a combat vet who fought with the army) and I am proud to do my part in OIF but all I am saying that I seen for myself some jarheads make mistakes and s**tbags in the corps. Nevertheless, I am proud of my time as a marine and my service in okinawa, korea and quantico and now with the 101st airborne division. so relax and worry about other things in life because what your do with your command doesnt have any bearing on this topic.

at ease!!

Staff Sergeant Quinones
101st Airborne Division
Military Policeman
Hooah!!! (outeffingstanding!!)

usmchauer
02-16-07, 03:55 PM
How do you say oorrah with a d!ck in your mouth? Think about it...... Anybody who thinks that army infantry holds a candle to the Marine Corps grunts are smoking f&ckin' crack. You wanna talk about unprofessionalism?? Why don't you ask the 2nd Brigade "Combat" team why they left one of their soldiers (PFC Lux) in the heart of Ramadi all by himself? They lost him and threw up the deuces as they rolled back to JC. Guess who went and rescued his as$. 2/5 How about the .50 cal that fell off an army humvee with about 400 slap rounds. They left that for the insurgents too. Give me a f*ckin' break armymp. Put the pipe down!!

MacAngus
02-16-07, 04:11 PM
How about that jessica lynch who made a joke that the reason she could't fire her weapon was because her boy friend didn't clean her rifle for her and compromised her friends and other soldiers lives. She said her boy toy used to clean her weapon for her .She was a supply clerk and i'll guarantee you this that supply clerks in the marines are riflemen first and also go out on patrols who keep thier weapons cleaned. And who had to go rescue them i'm not sure but i think it was our recon. Have you lost you're tough marine skin by going into the army?I'm sure on army web site they bust marines balls allthe time. My friend after getting out of the corps went to the army he has a couple months left and is going back in the corps thats all i needed to hear from him how many others are there like that?

NowArmyMP
02-16-07, 04:28 PM
hmmm I guess there are no stories of marines messing up in combat huh. just serve. this is getting ridiculous. you not seeing the point

usmchauer
02-16-07, 04:30 PM
ArmyMP - you're not seeing the point. YOU are on a MARINE message board. What do you expect?

NowArmyMP
02-16-07, 04:35 PM
I know that I am on a marine message board but that doesnt mean you are so narrow minded. of course I expect marine pride but the point is that americans are serving and doing their job no matter what branch of service and marines are not the only ones involved in combat. the reality is the army is the larger force obviously supplying the most fighting men. army deserves as much credit as marines. first medal of honor went to a army doggy but forget the can of worms on that one; saying that army awards medals easily compared to the marines (which is true) but receiving the MOH is a different story. I busted my ass in the Corps and just received a letter of achievement but the army hands out army achievement medals and commendations like candy.

NowArmyMP
02-16-07, 04:36 PM
and believe me I always defend the Corps when Army people say negative opinions about the Corps or other services.

hmckinley
02-16-07, 04:52 PM
[QUOTE=NowArmyMP]and believe me I always defend the Corps when Army people say negative opinions about the Corps or other services.

Hot damn, must have touched on a raw nerve this morning. At ease there laddy buck. I had one son that spent a stint in the army and a set of twins in the Marine Corps, dang proud of all three. He can't talk history with the twins, not that much for him to go on.

FistFu68
02-16-07, 04:58 PM
:evilgrin:YO~S/SGT. WHAT IS THE BADGE,ABOVE YOU'R AIR ASSULT BADGE?I'M HIP TO THE (C.I.B) NEVER SEEN A BAYONET WITH CLUSTER??? IS THAT PROVOST MARSHAL???~10/4:usmc:

usmchauer
02-16-07, 05:22 PM
This will be my last comment/question. ArmyMP - who would you rather be in combat with, Marines or soldiers?

10thzodiac
02-16-07, 05:58 PM
Youre not serriously comparing the 173rd airborne to Force Recon are you 10th?

Ask Ricky Recon [Force Recon], right of Drill Instructor (picture)who beat him in pugil sticks, not to mention who dusted him in class standing, 3/40 ? Try the arty pouge, upper left hand corner for who.

Incidentally, the guy to my left, and left front, just threatened me that they were going to throw me [acting platoon commander] off the bleachers. Later again threatening a blanket party for me, the DI gave them a choice fight me and my right-guide [next to Ricky Recon] or court marshals. I gave a deposition at their court marshals. Thanks to those two and another [not pictured] I was awarded an extra point to my final grade for outstanding leadership and promoted to corporal. Maybe I was wasting my time being an arty pouge, maybe I should of gone AB, 173rd ?

SF
10thz http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/22.gif
http://us.f814.mail.yahoo.com/y5/s/viewphoto?get=previewimg&folderid=%2540S%2540Search&mid=1_38577_2_56886_0_AIjHjkQAAAXaRAdNIAIbjFK8JeQ&partid=4

SkilletsUSMC
02-16-07, 06:51 PM
first medal of honor went to a army doggy but forget the can of worms on that one; saying that army awards medals easily compared to the marines (which is true) but receiving the MOH is a different story.

Hey, I dont disrespect the Army, they have job to do, but all in all, the Corps has their **** together. As for that the Doggy who won the CMH, Ill give you a story that will make you think twice about the army getting hooked up with more medals (to include the CMH)

A Marine named PFC Ransom, watched his buddy PFC Herman get gunned down across the street from him. Herman was shot through both lungs ,and would die within minutes without surgery. PFC Ransom without hesitation ran to him. As he aproached him he was shot twice. Though PFC ransom was now wounded and bleeding out, he dragged his buddy to safety where he passed out from lack of blood. Because of PFC Ransom, Herman was in surgery and lived to make a full recovery. As for Ransom, what medal do you think he rates? What do you think he actually got? Guess what. He didnt get ANY medal except the Purple Heart. So as for the Army dog who was the first to get the CMH, all due respect. But it only proves its all about who you know, not as much of what you do.

10thzodiac
02-16-07, 07:35 PM
John F. Kennedy once said, "War will exist until the distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige as the warrior does today."

SkilletsUSMC
02-16-07, 07:47 PM
John F. Kennedy once said, "War will exist until the distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige as the warrior does today."

Funny thats damn near the same quote as Chesty...

"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldier will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"

As soon as the concientious objector is the equal to the warrior, we are ****ED. Because, most of the other countries in the world still have their balls, and dissent and all that other pinko **** doesnt exist.

RLeon
02-16-07, 08:51 PM
and believe me I always defend the Corps when Army people say negative opinions about the Corps or other services.
Were just busting you chops bro.

I have family and friends in all branches...love em all...but they ain't Marines, so Marine Corps order 1-567-echocharliefoxtrot-4alpha applies to them.
:banana: :yes: :no:

Semper Fi!

10thzodiac
02-16-07, 10:03 PM
Funny thats damn near the same quote as Chesty...

"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldier will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"

As soon as the concientious objector is the equal to the warrior, we are ****ED. Because, most of the other countries in the world still have their balls, and dissent and all that other pinko **** doesnt exist.

Where did you see in Kennedy's statement unilaterally ?

Try bilaterally, it makes allot more sense http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif

John F. Kennedy once said, "War will exist until the distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige as the warrior does today."

SF

10thz http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/22.gif

10thzodiac
02-17-07, 02:07 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=629 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3>




</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=416><!-- S BO --><!-- S IIMA --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=203 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42568000/jpg/_42568897_soldiers203.jpg Russia's military has been tarnished by a series of scandals




</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- E IIMA --><!-- S SF -->The Russian military is reported to be investigating claims that army conscripts were forced to work as male prostitutes in St Petersburg.


The command of the interior ministry unit denied the claims made by the Soldiers' Mothers human rights group.

The group says it was contacted by a parent of a conscript who had been forced to work as a male prostitute.

Last year, an 18-year-old soldier was so badly beaten that he had to have his legs and genitals amputated.
<!-- E SF -->
The BBC's James Rodgers in Moscow says the latest claims follow a series of scandals which have damaged the Russian army's reputation.

A spokeswoman for the Soldiers' Mothers, Ella Polyakova, told the BBC that in St Petersburg there was "a network of clients" who would pay for sex with soldiers.

Older servicemen are said to have forced younger conscripts into prostitution and then taken the money for themselves.

Brutality

The Sychev bullying case drew worldwide attention to Russian army abuses.

Private Andrei Sychev was forced to squat for several hours by fellow soldiers and then tied to a chair and brutally beaten up last year.

As a result he developed gangrene in his legs and genitals, which had to be amputated.

Now permanently disabled, Pte Sychev has just announced that he is to write a book about his ordeal.

Such cases have highlighted the appalling conditions suffered by some Russian service personnel at a time when Russia is seeking a greater role on the world stage, our correspondent says.<!-- E BO -->




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FistFu68
02-17-07, 03:02 PM
:evilgrin:NO~#10Z~YOU SHOULD'A TAKEN THAT EARLY OUT,AND INSTEAD OF AIRBORNE!BECOME A POLITICIAN~'CAUSE YOU'VE GOT THE BULLCHITTIN,DOWN TOO AN ART; MY MARINE BROTHER!!!(LMFAO):D

MIKECHRY
02-17-07, 03:14 PM
In 1982 When I Went Through Parris Island, We Started With 81 Recruits And Finished With 54 Marines. All Non-hackers Were Sent Packing. That Is The Price You Pay To Earn The Title. We Are Not Soldiers, We Are Marines. I Cannot Imagine Why Anyone Would Settle For The Army After Being A Marine. I'm Sure The Army Gets A Lot Of Leftovers That Couldn't Hack It In The Corps. So Be It.

Sgt Leprechaun
02-19-07, 12:10 PM
BTW, the funky badge above his wop wop wings is the army "Combat Action Badge", given to all non infantry types who get shot at. Similiar criteria to the Combat Infantry Badge, but for non infantry types.

Lastly, there, armymp, your little bit about the army giving out medals 'like candy', I think says it all. Yeah, they give em out like candy, because that is how they think they have to motivate the troopies, in my opinion. The Marine Corps has gotten almost as bad with the 'end of tour' awards, to a point. But, nothing like the army.

I know a few re-treads who switched from Marines to army, and all were universally miserable, but they did it for their own reasons and lived with the decision.

With very, very, few exceptions, the army does not impress me one iota. And, that's fine. Not everybody can be a Marine, we need someone to be an 'occupying force', "heavy infantry", etc etc.

Comparing todays army with the Marine Corps is like comparing a caterpillar to a scorpion. They both have a mission; one is to be green, eat, get fat, and eventually morph into something else entirely. The other's is to be a dealer of death, and to kill without thinking about it. There are big scorpions, little scorpions, and all different colored scorpions, with varying degrees of poison. But, they all have one thing in common...mess with them, you get stung.

That is how I see the difference between Marines, and the army.

3077India
02-19-07, 07:48 PM
I guess I'm reading in the wrong place, but I don't see any mention of training, just the brutalization of soldiers. When I went through MCRD I don't recollect ever being brutalized.


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42568000/jpg/_42568897_soldiers203.jpg
Russia's military has been
tarnished by a series of scandals

The Russian military is reported to be investigating claims that army conscripts were forced to work as male prostitutes in St Petersburg.

The command of the interior ministry unit denied the claims made by the Soldiers' Mothers human rights group.

The group says it was contacted by a parent of a conscript who had been forced to work as a male prostitute.

Last year, an 18-year-old soldier was so badly beaten that he had to have his legs and genitals amputated.

The BBC's James Rodgers in Moscow says the latest claims follow a series of scandals which have damaged the Russian army's reputation.

A spokeswoman for the Soldiers' Mothers, Ella Polyakova, told the BBC that in St Petersburg there was "a network of clients" who would pay for sex with soldiers.

Older servicemen are said to have forced younger conscripts into prostitution and then taken the money for themselves.

Brutality

The Sychev bullying case drew worldwide attention to Russian army abuses.

Private Andrei Sychev was forced to squat for several hours by fellow soldiers and then tied to a chair and brutally beaten up last year.

As a result he developed gangrene in his legs and genitals, which had to be amputated.

Now permanently disabled, Pte Sychev has just announced that he is to write a book about his ordeal.

Such cases have highlighted the appalling conditions suffered by some Russian service personnel at a time when Russia is seeking a greater role on the world stage, our correspondent says.

NowArmyMP
02-19-07, 11:35 PM
believe me I been more than just shot at; but I am not here to talk about combat. I dont care what branch you in; if you were down range and fought then you earned alot in my book. if you a marine that hasn't been in combat then you shouldnt talk about anything until you do your time downrange. the guys that were under me in my squad, i will go back to combat with them any day. combat MPs are not combat arms because now they have females in the MOS but my whole squad were male and we wrecked havoc in hawijah. 101st airborne always kicks ass. hmm I rather do a 6 month to 8 month tour than a year any day. guys in my platoon are going downrange on a third tour. thats three years in a combat zone. I give credit when credit is due.

NowArmyMP
02-19-07, 11:43 PM
hey not everybody could be a soldier. the military is a very hard transistion for generation x types. todays high school grads are not as active or athletic or simply disciplined by their parents the way I was. btw, I chose to leave the corps back in the early 90s, so its not about not hacking in the corps. I hacked every challenged in my life and succeeded. its a shame that some of you have shown alot of immaturity in a simple conversation and in the expression of opinions. I guess when someone feels attacked or insecure about themselves, they feel the only way to feel better is by taking cheap shots. If this is what the corps is about now, then its a shame. My pride in the corps was never about this. I guess this website wasnt all that its set out to be. take care; semper fi and good luck, over and out.

bootlace15
02-20-07, 06:26 AM
You need to correct the profile. Where did you do your army training for boot camp?:sick: Or are you embarassed about that? MP or Airborne?

bootlace15 out

Sgt Leprechaun
02-20-07, 06:32 AM
Army mp, I have the utmost respect, as do just about anyone here who has BTDT and got the Tshirt, for anyone whose been in combat and made it out in one piece. There are plenty of 'us' here on the site that have trigger time in one form or another; but getting into a wetting contest about who did what to whom and when is NOT something we typically do.

That having been said, you should know full well that coming to a Marine site and talking "army", no matter how good the 101st, SF, Rangers, etc are, is going to bring down fire and brimstone on your pos. That's just the way it is. I would expect the same if I went to an army MP site, or a Ranger site, and started telling everyone about the Marine Corps.

You can either take it, fire back and deal with it, or get hurt feelings and leave. I haven't seen any 'cheap shots' here, just banter that comes when typical service rivalry comes into play. If you take it personal, then shame on ya. You should know better.

bootlace15
02-20-07, 06:47 AM
Sgt. Lep,well said....RUFF RUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bite Me......

bootlacec15 out:yes: :banana: :no:

Zulu 36
02-20-07, 07:19 AM
In 21 years of military service, active and reserve, war and peace, I've met some non-Marines whom I respected very much as warriors. Often, they joined those branches because they had the units they had dreamed about being members of, such as SF, DELTA, SEALS, combat controllers, PJs, USCG rescue swimmers, etc.

I once met (and had a few beers with) Randy Shughart , one of the two DELTA guys who earned the Blue Max in Somalia during the Black Hawk Down incident. He was one of those easy going guys, off duty, but 110% focused when on the hunt. Without a word he exuded tough and dangerous. I'd match him against nearly any Marine I knew and bet on Randy to win.

I knew a bunch of SF guys. One, whom I went to a school with, was one of the original Green Beanie wearers, got out of the Army, then came back in. He spoke seven European languages fluently and a few others so-so. He was a commercial rated pilot, four-engine rated in props, and two-engine in jets. He knew how to fly helos although didn't have a license to do so (yet). He had well in excess of 2,000 military jumps of all types, plus over 5,000 sport jumps (he said he stopped counting at 5M). He broke his back on a jump, rehabbed, and came back to active SF status. He had three tours in Vietnam. For fun, he wore a different set of the ten foreign jump wings he rated every day. I learned most of these facts about Bob from the other SF guys in the course. They deferred to him on many things, which was a big clue to his status in SF. He too was very laid-back, but dangerous just quietly oozed from him.

I know a Coastie yeoman who jumped into the Detroit River to save a drowning drunk, in the middle of an escape route for unlimited hydroplanes during a race heat. Had a hydro had to bail out of the turn at high speed, it would have run her, her boat (with crew), and the drunk flat over and likely killed everyone. Yep, I said her. As a yeoman she was only basic swim qualified, but went in anyway.

These are just a few examples. Not everyone wants to be a Marine (as hard as that is for me to admit). But that doesn't exclude them from being potentially rough, tough, and heroic just like many Marines.

Sgt Leprechaun
02-20-07, 07:37 AM
Well said, Zulu. Spot on.

There are some damn heroic folks out there in other branches. And by heroic, I mean the REAL heroes, not "You are a hero because you showed up to work, paid your taxes, and didn't divorce your spouse because the eggs were runny this morning" type of 'media hero' crap we all hear about nowadays.

The real heroes don't need constant affirmation or pats on the back. They know what they've done, and the rest of us do as well.

yellowwing
02-20-07, 07:50 AM
One of the finest men I have known, my ex-father in law, was Air Guard. A man with 110% Character. :thumbup:

NowArmyMP
02-20-07, 10:11 AM
I am not on here to talk about what branch is better SGT Lep. All I am saying is that I speak from experience not only about pride. I am on this site because I am a former Marine that served honorably and always keep the Corps to my heart. But opinions are opinions and I dont trash talk. Its all good that you defend the Corps because you are a Marine and that is expected but all I am saying is from my experience in the Army is that it has good and bad like all the armed services but talking about if boot camp is soft over here or there is kind of moot. Bottom line is that soldiers and marines are going off to war and fighting and that should unify everyone and that there is a time is to compete and to say why this branch is good at this or that. To me, the time is not now. And to that non-rate that posed the question about where did I go to army boot and if I am embarrassed. Well, I am never embarassed about my military service. I went to Army basic training at Fort Leonardwood, MO back in 1983 when I was a combat engineer and in those days, drill sergeants were thrashing soldiers around and there werent any females with us or female drills. Plus that was a combat MOS. That experience nevertheless helped me when I went to marine boot in 87. Also, my wings are air assault wings not airborne. And if you are airborne or air assault serving with the 82nd or 101st, it doesnt matter if you are a cook, supply or mechanic; once you are in the division, you are forced to go to those schools to get your wings because you are expected to. plain and simple. Some soldiers cant even get their wings due to the PT or obstacle course being a challenge. so they have to do PT (pop PT) twice a day. And if you dont have wings, you are ridiculed, smoked and consider an outcast; even if you are an NCO. To me its ridiculous but that is the way they operate. I just adapt and overcome. When I was in the Corps, I never ran as much as I did in the Army. Anyway, enough said. Just be proud serving. Serving 20 years is a feat in itself.

MSG Shugart was a hell of a soldier. The 160th SOAR is based at Fort Campbell and they have a heck of a memorial for those men killed at Somalia. Go to youtube.com and search for the USA show combat missions. Awesome program. Puts all the services best in combat ops with alot of good MOUT stuff.

Sgt Leprechaun
02-20-07, 03:44 PM
Army MP, I did Airborne school in August of 1984 as a Marine.

I well know the difference between 'Air assault' and 'Airborne' wings, believe me.

That is not meant as a smart*ss remark, nor was anything I posted. However, the army recruit training as compared with Marine Corps, at least at Ft Jackson, is no comparison. I serve right now with former soldiers, I am the only Marine, and even they say that Army recruit training isn't what it used to be, and it's no longer "their army".

BTW, the 101st, for Marines reading, is no longer the "Airborne" division they once were, they are now Air Assault, but allowed to keep the Airborne Tab as an honorific.

We have a Medical Airborne unit on the post I work at, and and they wear the tab, but more than 80 percent are legs. As in, non Airborne. That is always a weird thing to see.

NowArmyMP
02-20-07, 06:29 PM
I know about the 101st about the honoric airborne since I been with them since 2004. I am still here btw. I dont PCS until March. But I wasnt posing that response to you about the airborne; it was someone else. So where are you stationed at since you are the only marine?

NowArmyMP
02-20-07, 07:46 PM
I just finished reading the Army times and it has this great insightful article in its editorial. Read on..... <br />
<br />
Marine Corps boot camp trains — and transforms — recruits <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
By Bernard E....

CourtneyMP
02-21-07, 08:28 AM
I have dealt with all branches of the Military's Military Police, and I will say this, Army MP's are good to go, for **** bags, they dont want to do any work, they dont want to do gate checks, they dont want to search cars, they whine, they bit(h, and everything in between, they got there little badge, that says Army Military Police, and automatically assume, they can arrest a ****ing 4 Star because of a shiny little badge, I have been to combat with my Field Unit, who have Female Marines in it, and not one of them ended up like Jessica Lynch. . . wonder why?

Not to mention, my friend just graduated from Army Basic, thinking he had "horror" stories of Basic Training, only to hear mine, and almost collapse on the floor from actual horror, so ArmyMP just leave the thread, and stop trying to defend something that will just keep us entertained because all your doing is giving us something to do!

:flag: COURTNEYMP :marine:

-------------------------

"Do not attack the First Marine Division. Leave the yellowlegs alone. Strike the American Army."
Orders given to Communist troops in the Korean War; shortly afterward, the Marines were ordered to not wear their khaki leggings.

NowArmyMP
02-21-07, 09:01 AM
Hey lance corporal rock. If that is from your observation then so be it. I havent see any of my MPs display that kind of performance. I had an a different opinion myself when I was a Marine stationed in Okinawa. I had an altercation with an Army MP and the end result was that it left me with a low opinion of them. Years later when I switched branches, then I trained my joes to do things the right thing. I experienced two basic trainings and two law enforcement academies from my stint in the border patrol. All again is the experience. I tell soldiers from my experience in marine boot and army basic in the 80s and their eyes widen with shock. Its the same that we did in the corps. If you a marine that went to 3rd Battalion at Parris Island, you were considered above the rest from 1st or 2nd Bat recruits and how the island joshes on hollywood marines. I put my MPs agains anyones; any day of the week. They experience warfighters at fort leonardwood so they good to go. I can tell you stories about ****bag marines but you dont seem to get the point.

NowArmyMP
02-21-07, 09:23 AM
oh another thing, Army MPs are not issued badges; they just wear the MP brassard. Marine MPs wear their shiny gold badge on their uniforms. Army MP batches can be purchased by Army MPs to show their affliation to the regimental and to identify themselves in civilian clothes. The only MPs that wear that badge are the ones in civilian clothes that handle misdeameanor cases (domestics) on post.

CourtneyMP
02-21-07, 10:17 AM
oh another thing, Army MPs are not issued badges; they just wear the MP brassard. Marine MPs wear their shiny gold badge on their uniforms. Army MP batches can be purchased by Army MPs to show their affliation to the regimental and to identify themselves in civilian clothes. The only MPs that wear that badge are the ones in civilian clothes that handle misdeameanor cases (domestics) on post.

your right, we wear our shiny badges, and then take them off when we get off shift, we dont have them sewn on too our Digitals for a reason, because once we are off shift, we are Marines, unless someone knows that I am an MP then for all they know is I could be Admin, and as for identifying themselves in civi's...what purpose does that do, so they can **** up and expect to get away with it, or so some Civilian Cop can be like "o0o he is an MP, ok I'll let him go" which is what the case is with alot of you, and I know Marine MP's do it too, but the Army takes that crap way to far!

And what the hell is up with LCpl Rock?

Zulu 36
02-21-07, 10:33 AM
your right, we wear our shiny badges, and then take them off when we get off shift, we dont have them sewn on too our Digitals for a reason, because once we are off shift, we are Marines, unless someone knows that I am an MP then for all they know is I could be Admin, and as for identifying themselves in civi's...what purpose does that do, so they can **** up and expect to get away with it, or so some Civilian Cop can be like "o0o he is an MP, ok I'll let him go" which is what the case is with alot of you, and I know Marine MP's do it too, but the Army takes that crap way to far!

And what the hell is up with LCpl Rock?

I'd suggest lightening up. Why do you care what bells, whistles, and geegaws the Army chooses to put on their uniforms? If they want to look like Third World Dictators, why does that have to put a bug in your butt?

Sgt Leprechaun
02-21-07, 10:07 PM
MP, I'm no longer on active duty, I'm a Dept of Army (Civilian) LEO on an army base.

I love getting into these discussions BTW.

And, I wasn't trying to rattle your chain "too much" about the Airborne tabs, I just think it's kinda typical of the army with all the bells and whistles.

FYI, most civilian coppers are not impressed with those who show MP badges of any kind off duty. (No matter the service). That is not trying to intentionally hurt anyone's feelings, just the way it is. Sometimes it will help, but most of the time when someone shows me an "Army MP" badge, they automatically get a citation, since you can buy the dang things anyplace "on line".

NowArmyMP
02-22-07, 10:16 AM
oh wow. a DA LEO who works at the PMO. well that is good to go. I am not a wig wag; im in a tactical MP line unit but did some road duty at times. well, that is good. congrats. alot of civilians are doing the work of military. e.g. gate guard DA Police. so which base and how is the pay? when I ETS in 3 years, might sound like a good option.

NowArmyMP
02-22-07, 10:18 AM
haha this is fun. reminds me of my leatherneck days. hey I wish everyone a nice day. semper fi.

Sgt Leprechaun
02-23-07, 06:17 AM
The pay isn't bad to start, GS-5 if you have prior MP (which, obviously, you do) or civilian LEO status, GS-6 to start if you pass our SRT test. GS-6 is about 40,000 in the metro DC area with speciality pay. Not a bad gig overall.

fmoyer
02-23-07, 03:54 PM
Did Army bootcamp at Ft Ord in 1957, had a good time much like a picnic was a lot of fun. When I joined the Marine Corps and went to Dego a whole new ball game no fun to be had. Never should have told the DI that I had been in the army he never let me forget it in his gental way. Had to bark like a dog for him every day, until the last day when he gave me my Globe and called me a Marine said he would kick my @ss if I ever barked again. Sgt Abeta you don't have to look me up I have never barked again. The Corps made me who I am today. Retired Chief of Police, former Mayor and now High School Teacher. Thanks for good Marine Corp boot camp.

bailesrj
02-23-07, 04:35 PM
when were you on the rock ? i was in and out of sukeran with the 12th marines mar. 62 to may 63. i dont remember which airborne unit was there then . but i thought it was the 82nd i could be wrong. they seemed ok

TheDude
06-24-07, 06:11 AM
Army Strong Grammatically Weak

JCam0331
06-25-07, 09:32 AM
"Sgt. 1st Class Mike Behkendorf went through basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Mo., in 1996, and said he remembers arriving at his unit packed into a cattle car with the other new soldiers."

This guy made the equivalent of Gunnery Sergeant in less than 11 years??

is this guy just hot stuff or does the Army promote fast? Anybody (an unbiased answer please)

JCam0331
06-25-07, 09:37 AM
Wow, your right...I never realized that. Dang, what a bunch of chumps the Marines are, stressing discipline, when all along they could have lowered their standards and still have elite outfits like the Army...gee I wasted my time, I should have just joined the Army...;)

Seriousy, yes the Army has elite units and the Corps pogues, but our pogues are tougher and more disciplined than their pogues...:D

I've seen Marines who run 30 minute 3 miles and can't do 2 pullups

they exist in every branch or service.

Sgt Leprechaun
06-25-07, 09:53 AM
And those Marines should look for the nearest exit, but I've seen them as well.

And the army does promote some MOS's faster than others, just like we do.

Sgt Dan
06-25-07, 09:55 AM
When I was In Iraq our platoon set up a platoon sized patrol base. We established and maintained this patrol base for about four months. About a month before we were to head back to the states we had started turning over the PB to the army. After we left we found out that the patrol base had been overan by insurgents... We had three other patrol bases throughout our Batallion like ours and all within 1 month were overan because the army was to scared to sling some F**king lead.

Sgt Leprechaun
06-25-07, 11:22 AM
Not a surprise, really. The army discourages independent thought, reason, and action. Soldiers are micromanaged to the nth degree, most can't even walk across the street without an order from an "E-7" or above. Poorly trained, generally poorly led, and lack of motivation all take a toll.

Now, that doesn't hold true in all units to be sure. Delta, the Rangers, SF, are the general exceptions to that rule. But, for the most part, from what I've seen and experienced in my dealings with the army on a daily basis (thank god, as a civilian), they are more an "army of one" than "strong", unless you count the gym rats that is.

USMC-FO
06-25-07, 11:45 AM
bailesrj

"...... i dont remember which airborne unit was there then . but i thought it was the 82nd i could be wrong. they seemed ok"

I believe it was the 173rd Airborne Brigrade which I think now bases out of Italy. Right now I think they, or parts of them are in Iraq

Sgt Leprechaun
06-25-07, 11:49 AM
Yep. They are out of Vincenza, Italy, I believe.

rheinmark187
06-25-07, 08:40 PM
Anyone else think we need to Massively improve MCT before we worry about boot camp? When I went through in 2000, it wasn't very intense. The Marine Corps made a wise decision to overhaul the ITB/MCT a few years ago, so I kind of envy Marines who came afterward. Wouldn't it be nice to train each support Marine to a level well above 11b's?
I'm sure the cost, time, and TO problems associated with extending and intensifying MCT prohibit it, but it would be nice.

capmarine
06-25-07, 08:45 PM
i got into this discussion late.my ex-son-in-law graduated from benning and his was tough(about 3 yrs ago)ive been to MCRDSD several times the last few years and im very proud the way the Corps has kept its standards.

JCam0331
06-25-07, 10:51 PM
And those Marines should look for the nearest exit, but I've seen them as well.

And the army does promote some MOS's faster than others, just like we do.

When I was a poolee, our RS Sergeant Major was a 19 year Sergeant Major. Was former Force Reconnaissance and had his Navy Gold Wings and scuba badge.

At 40+ years old he still ran 300 PFTs

what a stud

so I guess I can see how a 10 year Gunny/SFC is feasible.

JCam0331
06-25-07, 10:53 PM
Anyone else think we need to Massively improve MCT before we worry about boot camp? When I went through in 2000, it wasn't very intense. The Marine Corps made a wise decision to overhaul the ITB/MCT a few years ago, so I kind of envy Marines who came afterward. Wouldn't it be nice to train each support Marine to a level well above 11b's?
I'm sure the cost, time, and TO problems associated with extending and intensifying MCT prohibit it, but it would be nice.

If I had it my way -

Every Marine should have to go through the 8 week ITB course. 0311s need to go through an extended infantryman's course. Perhaps some of the stuff taught at TBS.

Every Marine must run a 225 PFT or higher. Anything lower than a first class will get your counseled and will affect your pros/cons

iamcloudlander
06-25-07, 11:59 PM
"Sgt. 1st Class Mike Behkendorf went through basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Mo., in 1996, and said he remembers arriving at his unit packed into a cattle car with the other new soldiers."

This guy made the equivalent of Gunnery Sergeant in less than 11 years??

is this guy just hot stuff or does the Army promote fast? Anybody (an unbiased answer please)

I made SSGT (E-6) in less than six years and was on the GYSGT (E-7) list when I got out in 74---would have picked up E7 in 73 but refused to extend my enlistment to go to the drill field

RLeon
06-26-07, 12:30 AM
I've seen Marines who run 30 minute 3 miles and can't do 2 pullups

they exist in every branch or service.
Me too, I've seen Marines that look like the pilsbury doughboy...difference is that the Corps does something about it.
I live right next to Ft. Benning and I see Basic training graduates every week. For every one squared away new soldier there are about 10 guys that aren't. Sloppy uniforms, no military bearing, you wouldn't even guess some of these guys were in the military if it wasn't for their buzzed heads and uniforms. In contrast when ever I come across a boot Marine on leave it's yes sir, no sir, straight posture, look you in the eye, squared away uniforms...makes me proud.