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greensideout
01-10-07, 08:58 PM
After hearing President Bush's "new" plan for the war in Iraq I concluded that the "new" plan was little more then a larger "old" plan.

TXAssassin5
01-10-07, 09:03 PM
i agree 100%!!!!! to secure a area you must have the troop numbers and no resrictions.....maybe this will wake up america and have them realize we can win and not to pull out to early!!!! looks like my 2nd tour over in the sand box is on its way.......


-Semper Fi

SuNmAN
01-10-07, 09:26 PM
yeah lets keep escalating against an enemy whom we cannot identify who understands Mao's theory of guerilla warfare

whats that I smell??

sniff sniff

mmmm nothing like the fresh smell of VIETNAM in the evening !!!

parrish03xx
01-10-07, 09:45 PM
Greenside give me a call and I would finally get to talk to you
Its Lcpl Parrish and I would like to tell you a few things.

my # is 760-401-6479

yellowwing
01-10-07, 09:48 PM
Transcript from Address:

Iran is providing material support for attacks on American troops. We will disrupt the attacks on our forces. We will interrupt the flow of support from Iran and Syria. And we will seek out and destroy the networks providing advanced weaponry and training to our enemies in Iraq.
I wonder if those spooky AC130s will be pouring fire across the border?

003XXMarineDAD
01-10-07, 09:56 PM
yeah lets keep escalating against an enemy whom we cannot identify who understands Mao's theory of guerilla warfare

whats that I smell??

sniff sniff

mmmm nothing like the fresh smell of VIETNAM in the evening !!!
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________


Sunman you had better get squared away and packed. Maybe you had better talk to oo3Parrish and get a true veiw instead of your college veiw.
:D

10thzodiac
01-10-07, 10:18 PM
I still say, "We should pull back and secure Iraq's boarders and let the Iraqis form their own government as peaceful as possible and as bloody as required. Once that government emerges, get into bed with them $$$."

Osotogary
01-10-07, 10:38 PM
Mao's theory of guerilla warfare
Heard about it, read about it, seen some of it via video media, television or otherwise... and I consider myself low man on the totem pole in these matters. I'm figuring someone else, much more savy and realtime knowledgeable about these matters, who's in an influencial decision making position knows much more than I. I cannot believe that Mao's theory of guerilla warfare has not been considered and acted upon, but then again, I am here and they are there.
Is some of what the President plans a CAP revisited?
In the non-military action theatre there is a list, showing U.S. contributions to Iraqi reconstruction; schools built, pipelines fixed, etc. No one seems to know about this activity unless one searches, I think, DefenseLink. This type of information plus hostile action taken against these reconstruction projects, by insurgents etc., should be made more available to the general public. The failure to keep the American populace more actively informed, on a larger scale, about the ongoing reconstruction projects was a major public relations humbug. I'd hate to see that again.
The speech sounded very familiar in tone and purpose and as much as I wanted to get "jacked up" and enthusiastic, seeing "In Memorium" every night, I just watched with solemn resolve hoping and praying that these tactics work. God Bless our Armed Forces.
Gary

jinelson
01-10-07, 11:19 PM
by SuNmAN - yeah lets keep escalating against an enemy whom we cannot identify who understands Mao's theory of guerilla warfare

whats that I smell??

sniff sniff

mmmm nothing like the fresh smell of VIETNAM in the evening !!!

:mad:

Sonny you are very lucky that your mouth is not within the reach of my Louisville Slugger. Only an idiot would say publicly what you just did in a forum of veterans. You have no first hand knowlege of Vietnam or Iraq only your leftest classrooms. But then again you seem to only identify with and align yourself with idiots and enemies like Mao and not Marines. I think that you have decided to become part of the problem instead of a force in the solution. Your only motivation here on Leatherneck these days seems to be the enemies voice in politics. If anyone ever accuses you of being a Marine their will be insufficient evidence to support it.

Jim

SkilletsUSMC
01-10-07, 11:32 PM
:mad:

Sonny you are very lucky that your mouth is not within the reach of my Louisville Slugger. Only an idiot would say publicly what you just did in a forum of veterans. You have no first hand knowlege of Vietnam or Iraq only your leftest classrooms. But then again you seem to only identify with and align yourself with idiots and enemies like Mao and not Marines. I think that you have decided to become part of the problem instead of a force in the solution. Your only motivation here on Leatherneck these days seems to be the enemies voice in politics. If anyone ever accuses you of being a Marine their will be insufficient evidence to support it.

Jim

I have written about 5 posts and then scrapped them at the last second due to not wanting to get banned. I cant believe this guy...:sick:

As much as I agree with you, I think you had better watch out, or Eagle57 is gonna knock your teeth out like he said he would do to me for saying anything negative about sunman....



<HR style="COLOR: #ccccff" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
Skillets....Who the FU*k do YOU think you are? CPL.....

If SunMan has a Point, that's HIS POINT.

You MIGHT BE AN INTERNET TOUGH GUY ....and state "You Would Call Him A Pussy To His Face"....

I GUARENTEE....YOU WOULD'NT CALL HIM THAT TO HIS FACE IN FRONT OF ME....BECAUSE YOU'D BE SWALLOWING YOUR CHICKLETS.

LISTEN..."NEW BREED"....YOU DON'T THREATEN OTHER MARINES...AZZHOLE.

AND "SKILLETS" ...WHAT ARE YOU, PERMENT KP DUTY.

GROW THE FU*K UP.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________

SuNmAN
01-11-07, 12:09 AM
Sunman you had better get squared away and packed. Maybe you had better talk to oo3Parrish and get a true veiw instead of your college veiw.
:D

What I said above was not a political statement. It was more of a strategic and historical statement

who knows maybe we can defy history and set a precedent

but I doubt it.

SuNmAN
01-11-07, 12:17 AM
Mao's theory of guerilla warfare
Heard about it, read about it, seen some of it via video media, television or otherwise... and I consider myself low man on the totem pole in these matters. I'm figuring someone else, much more savy and realtime knowledgeable about these matters, who's in an influencial decision making position knows much more than I. I cannot believe that Mao's theory of guerilla warfare has not been considered and acted upon, but then again, I am here and they are there.
Is some of what the President plans a CAP revisited?
In the non-military action theatre there is a list, showing U.S. contributions to Iraqi reconstruction; schools built, pipelines fixed, etc. No one seems to know about this activity unless one searches, I think, DefenseLink. This type of information plus hostile action taken against these reconstruction projects, by insurgents etc., should be made more available to the general public. The failure to keep the American populace more actively informed, on a larger scale, about the ongoing reconstruction projects was a major public relations humbug. I'd hate to see that again.
The speech sounded very familiar in tone and purpose and as much as I wanted to get "jacked up" and enthusiastic, seeing "In Memorium" every night, I just watched with solemn resolve hoping and praying that these tactics work. God Bless our Armed Forces.
Gary

Dear Sir,

Mao ZeDong's theory of guerilla warfare is too deep for me to explain in a post, but I've done a lot of readings on it and Ho Chi Minh emulated Mao Ze Dong greatly in evicting France and the United States from IndoChina.

The Mujahideen also unknowingly used many of the same tactics and strategies to force the Soviets to withdraw from Afghanistan in the 1980s.

Mao ZeDong was a master strategist especailly in the combination of using guerilla warfare along with conventional troops in order to defeat a numerically and techonogically superior enemy. His is considered the forefather of Fourth Generation Warfare or unrestricted warfare (4 GW) in which a technologically, numerically and economically inferior opponent can defeat an enemy of much greater strength by using all possible means, especially political ones.

Mao's theory of guerilla warfare can be summarized in Chinese by what is know as his 16 characters (in Chinese they represent 16 chracters):

“The enemy advances, we retreat; the enemy camps, we harass; the enemy tires, we attack; the enemy retreats, we pursue”


I'll talk more about it if you would like me to, but I have a feeling the Marines on this board will not want to read what I have to say about guerilla warfare and why the Iraq War is so difficult to win and will instead just lash out at me...so I'll only say more if you want me to.

Later

SuNmAN
01-11-07, 12:22 AM
:mad:

Sonny you are very lucky that your mouth is not within the reach of my Louisville Slugger. Only an idiot would say publicly what you just did in a forum of veterans. You have no first hand knowlege of Vietnam or Iraq only your leftest classrooms. But then again you seem to only identify with and align yourself with idiots and enemies like Mao and not Marines. I think that you have decided to become part of the problem instead of a force in the solution. Your only motivation here on Leatherneck these days seems to be the enemies voice in politics. If anyone ever accuses you of being a Marine their will be insufficient evidence to support it.

Jim

I align myself with Mao??? Guess you know as much...not scratch that, LESS about Mao than I do about Vietnam !! Because my grandparents were refugees who retreated to Taiwan from China after Mao's Communist forces won the Civil War !!

You think I count Mao ZeDong as a friend?? NO !!

But he is one of the greatest strategists of guerrilla warfare of ALL TIME and any prudent leader of Marines would be wise to read up on Mao's strategy !!!!


[B]From the Commandant's Reading List:

Gunnery Sergeant, First Seargeant, Master Sergeant, Chief Warrant Officer 4, Captain

Author: Mao Tse-Tung
Title: Mao Tse-Tung on Guerilla Warfare

SuNmAN
01-11-07, 12:23 AM
I have written about 5 posts and then scrapped them at the last second due to not wanting to get banned. I cant believe this guy...:sick:

As much as I agree with you, I think you had better watch out, or Eagle57 is gonna knock your teeth out like he said he would do to me for saying anything negative about sunman....


I didn't get to see that post but I like Corporal Skillets, he is one of the more moderate and reasonable Marines on this board and I find myself agreeing with him from time to time.

jinelson
01-11-07, 12:41 AM
by SuNmAN -I swear I hate to make personal attacks but MARINES ARE IGNORANT


YES YOU ARE!

The1stSgt
01-11-07, 07:35 AM
Sun, It appears to me you enjoy being the antagonist, by the point, counter point intellectual jousting you engage in here daily.

I can only speak for myself. Your antagonistic philosophizing, liberal ideology and controversial questions have become very irritating, i.e., "mmm mmm nothing like the smell of Viet Nam in the morning". What positive could possibly come from that statement on Leatherneck.com?

I think you know exactly what you are doing, asking controversial questions, and making provocative statements, just to stir sh!t up. It causes controversy, which puts you in control (psychologically and emotionally) of many members of this board. It happens repeatedly. You are being an arrogant egotistical antagonistic college student (not necessarily a good thing).

I still think it gets you attention, gives you a sense of power (intellectual and emotional) and feeds your psuedo-intellectual college student ego.

That's my belief and I'm sticking to it. Oh yeah, report to the Company office and bring your e-tool with you.

10thzodiac
01-11-07, 08:55 AM
UI U-C Drama Queen 101 http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/17.gif

LMAO
10thzodiac

OLE SARG
01-11-07, 10:05 AM
Can't We All Just Get Along!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Semper Fi,

10thzodiac
01-11-07, 12:34 PM
Can't We All Just Get Along!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Semper Fi,

OLE SARGE, just point us in the direction of the sound of the cannons, we'll all be happy together again marching over there http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif

SF
10thz:thumbup:

10thzodiac
01-11-07, 08:31 PM
'Fixing' the War

<TABLE id=AuthorBlock cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD>by Tom Engelhardt </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=right><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD> December 14, 2006</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>This is an old tale. Long forgotten. But like all good political bedtime stories, it's well worth telling again. <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>
Once upon a time, there was a retired general named Paul Van Riper. In 1966, as a young Marine officer and American advisor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_van_Riper) in Vietnam, he was wounded in action; he later became the first president of the Marine Corps University, retired from the Corps as a Lieutenant General, and then took up the task of leading the enemy side in Pentagon war games. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Over the years, Van Riper had developed into a free-wheeling military thinker, given to quoting Von Clausewitz and Sun-tzu, and dubious about the ability of the latest technology to conquer all in its path. If you wanted to wage war, he thought, it might at least be reasonable to study war seriously (if not go to war yourself) rather than just fall in love with military power. It seemed to him that you took a risk any time you dismissed your enemy as without resources (or a prayer) against your awesome power and imagined your campaign to come as a sure-fire "cakewalk." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A1996-2002Feb12?language=printer) As he pointed out (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wartech/nature.html), "Many enemies are not frightened by that overwhelming force. They put their minds to the problem and think through: how can I adapt and avoid that overwhelming force and yet do damage against the United States?" <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
As a result, Van Riper took the task of simulated enemy commander quite seriously. He also had a few issues with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's much vaunted "military transformation," his desire to create a sleek, high-tech, agile military that would drive everything before it. He thought the Rumsfeld program added up to just so many "shallow," "fundamentally flawed" slogans. ("There's very little intellectual content to what they say... 'Information dominance,' 'network-centric warfare,' 'focused logistics' -- you could fill a book with all of these slogans.") <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
In July 2002, he got the chance to test that proposition. At the cost of a quarter-billion dollars, the Pentagon launched the most elaborate war games in its history, immodestly entitled "Millennium Challenge 02." These involved all four services in "17 simulation locations and nine live-force training sites." Officially a war against a fictional country in the Persian Gulf region -- but obviously Iraq -- it was specifically scripted to prove the efficacy of the Rumsfeld-style invasion that the Bush administration had already decided to launch. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Lt. Gen. Van Riper commanded the "Red Team" -- the Iraqis of this simulation -– against the "Blue Team," U.S. forces; and, unfortunately for Rumsfeld, he promptly stepped out of the script. Knowing that sometimes the only effective response to high-tech warfare was the lowest tech warfare imaginable, he employed some of the very techniques the Iraqi insurgency would begin to use all-too-successfully a year or two later. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Such simple devices as, according to the Army Times (http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1060102.php), using "motorcycle messengers to transmit orders, negating Blue's high-tech eavesdropping capabilities," and "issuing attack orders via the morning call to prayer broadcast from the minarets of his country's mosques." In the process, Van Riper trumped the techies. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
"At one point in the game," as Fred Kaplan of Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2080814/) wrote in March 2003, "when Blue's fleet entered the Persian Gulf, he sank some of the ships with suicide-bombers in speed boats. (At that point, the managers stopped the game, 'refloated' the Blue fleet, and resumed play.)" After three or four days, with the Blue Team in obvious disarray, the game was halted and the rules rescripted. In a quiet protest, Van Riper stepped down as enemy commander. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Millennium Challenge 02 was subsequently written up as a vindication of Rumsfeld's "military transformation." On that basis -- with no one paying more mind to Van Riper (who, this April, called openly (http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041406J.shtml) for Rumsfeld's resignation) than to Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki when, in February 2003, he pointed out that hundreds of thousands (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/consequences/2003/0228pentagoncontra.htm) of troops would be needed to occupy Iraq, the "transformational" invasion was launched -- with all the predictably catastrophic results now so widely known. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
The Millennium Challenge 02 war games were already underway when, late that July, Sir Richard Dearlove, head of MI6 (the British equivalent of the CIA), returned to London from high-level meetings in Washington to report to Prime Minister Tony Blair and his top officials. In a secret meeting, he told them that the decision for war in Iraq had already been made by the Bush administration and that now, in a memorable phrase, "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
On May 1st, 2005, notes from this meeting, dubbed "the Downing Street Memo," (http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=2486) were leaked to the London Sunday Times. Thanks to that memo and other documents, it's now commonly accepted that the Bush administration "fixed" the intelligence around their war of choice. But Lt. Gen. Van Riper's forgotten story should remind us that they also "fixed" the war they were planning to fight. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Between then and now, when it came to Iraq, there wasn't much that wasn't "fixed" in a similar manner. Only recently, James A. Baker's Iraq Study Group report described (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=8611) the way levels of violence in Iraq were grossly underreported by U.S. intelligence officials -- in one case, only 93 "attacks or significant acts of violence" being officially recorded on a day when the number was well above 1,000. As the report politely summed up this particular fix-it-up methodology, "Good policy is difficult to make when information is systematically collected in a way that minimizes its discrepancy with policy goals." <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
But here's the thing: The Iraq Study Group, too -- like every other mainstream gathering of advisors, officials, or pundits -- "fixed" the intelligence. Think of the ISG as the clean-up-crew version of the Blue Team of Millennium Challenge 02. Before they even began, Bush family consigliere Baker and cohorts ensured that, while the ISG would be filled with notable movers and shakers from numerous previous administrations, no one on it, nor any expert "team" advising it would represent the one point of view that a majority of Americans have by now come to support (http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=145524) -- actual withdrawal of all U.S. forces from Iraq on a set timeline. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
You would not, for instance, find retired Lt. Gen. William E. Odom, the former Director of the National Security Agency, who has openly called for the U.S. to "cut and run" (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-odom31oct31,0,6123563.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail) from Iraq, on the panel. Despite the report's harsh descriptions of the last three years of failed policy and some perfectly sane negotiation suggestions, it dismissed the idea of such a withdrawal out of hand -- because such a dismissal was simply built into the group's very make up. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
It turns out, of course, that when you control both sides of a war game or the range of opinion on a panel, you are assured of the results you're going to get. The problem comes when you only control one side of a situation; and when, as American commanders learned in the early days of the Korean War and again in Vietnam, whether due to racism or imperial blindness, you also discount and disrespect your enemies. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Unfortunately for the Bush administration, it turned out that, while you could fix the war games and the intelligence, you couldn't be assured of fixing reality itself, which has a tendency to remain obdurately, passionately, irascibly unconquerable (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805044574/nationbooks08). Yes, you could ignore reality for a while. (The President, when being told a few hard Iraqi truths in 2004 by Col. Derek Harvey, the Defense Intelligence Agency's senior intelligence officer for Iraq, reportedly (http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/fairenough/salon041.html) turned to his aides and asked, "Is this guy a Democrat?") But you couldn't do it forever, not when the Lt. Gen. Van Ripers of Iraq refused to step aside and you weren't capable of removing them; not when you couldn't even figure out, most of the time, who they were. It was then that the fixers first found themselves in a genuine fix, from which none of Washington's movers and shakers have yet been willing to extract themselves. <O:p></O:p>

Quinbo
01-11-07, 09:20 PM
Oh yeah, report to the Company office and bring your e-tool with you.

Nothing like digging a tank trap then filling it back in, in the the pouring rain to bring a lance coolie back down to earth. He would be praying to google to not let him down now. Yea them weight lifter ground pounders come crashing back to earth pretty quick when you put a couple 10lb weights in their pack for a 25 mile hump. Me I preferred cans of soup.

robg9178
01-11-07, 09:51 PM
Well I don't know about Mao Dong, or Mao whoever. I think they should just let Marines do what Marines do best, go in, kick butt, and come home

crate78
01-12-07, 09:44 AM
I took a course in guerilla warfare in the Corps, and the premise is simple: hit your enemy in his weakest spot and disappear before he can retalliate.

I think the problem in Iraq is the U.S. is trying to respond to guerilla warfare with conventional warfare and it just doesn't work. To win a war, you need to employ the same tactics as your enemy and do it better. Are we doing that in Iraq?

A classic example of guerilla warfare in action is the Russian's action against the Nazi's in the Crimea in WWII. Germany's war machine depended on the railroads for supplies. A handful of Russian guerillas began mining the railroad tracks and blowing up the train engines. The Germans began pushing an old rail car ahead of the engine to be blown up and at least save the engine.

The guerillas then began using weight sensative fuses on the mines so that the weight of the engine was needed to trigger the mine. The Germans then began pushing a gondola full of rocks ahead of the engines. The guerillas began using time-delay fuses. And on and on.

The end result was a few Russian guerillas disrupted the Germans' supply lines to a point where the entire German Army in the area became preoccupied with getting supply trains through, leaving them vulnerable to conventional warfare. Which the Russians then used against them and won.

In order to win in Iraq, we need to get just as down and dirty as the insurgents. Unfortunately, the American value system doesn't allow for that.

My humble opinion.

crate

drumcorpssnare
01-12-07, 10:34 AM
crate78- You are exactly right about the need to fight guerilla tactics with guerilla tactics. Similar to your WW II Russian example, think of Lawrence of Arabia fighting the Turks in WW I. And I believe in his quote (in the movie) at the train de-railment..."NO PRISONERS!!!"

Too bad President Bush didn't announce to the world, "Part of this new plan is that "the gloves are coming off." American and Iraqi forces will not be held back by politically correct "rules of engagement."

That might have given cause for all the 'bad guys' to say, "Uh-oh??!?!"
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

Sgt Leprechaun
01-12-07, 11:02 AM
Crate, I think you are right on. Lift the bull**** ROE's that we have in place now, go back to the plain old 'geneva convention', which the left loves to scream about, (too bad they don't know what it really says), and operate accordingly. Those out of uniform engaging in guerrilla operations can be shot as spies.

"No better friend, no worse enemy" should be the rule.

Perhaps, however, phrased a bit differently, so that our meaning is perhaps a bit clearer....


"Play ball with us, or we ram the bat up your ass".

SuN, just because you've read Mao don't mean doodly/squat. I've read him too. He is a good guerrilla leader and commander, but your left wing nonesensical worldview shows through when you throw out lines like "evicting the French and the American's".

yellowwing
01-12-07, 12:45 PM
What MOS is Philosopher/Humanitarian? "Pour fire on that bunker with a touch of Kafka. Don't want the enemy blaming his mother for his inadequacies. That would be cruel." :banana:

Sgt Leprechaun
01-12-07, 12:53 PM
Hell, I thought all Marines were "Warrior/Poets"!!!

I like that line tho.

greensideout
01-12-07, 03:11 PM
The President, in his speech said that he was sending a carrier group and patriot missiles. Now in the news an arrival of F-16s in Turkey has been announced.

Why the carrier group? We have one there already.
Why the patriot missiles? The insurgents have nothing to knock out of the air.
Why F-16s in Turkey? For training? Ya, right.

The "surge" looks to be a smoke screen for our move on the real problem in the middle east.

That would be Iran!

yellowwing
01-12-07, 03:20 PM
Exactly. If he wanted to shoot the RNC in the foot for 8 more years, maybe he would send them there for Somalia.

greensideout
01-12-07, 04:59 PM
Exactly. If he wanted to shoot the RNC in the foot for 8 more years, maybe he would send them there for Somalia.


Why would we need a carrier group and patriot missiles in Somalia? :confused:

yellowwing
01-12-07, 06:15 PM
Exactly! It give us more flexibility and teeth for policy pressure on Tehran.

Or maybe Israel is ready to attack those nuclear plants.

I do not think the public is ready to support large group force in Somalia anyway. That would kill the RNC.

greensideout
01-12-07, 06:32 PM
Exactly! It give us more flexibility and teeth for policy pressure on Tehran.

Or maybe Israel is ready to attack those nuclear plants.

I do not think the public is ready to support large group force in Somalia anyway. That would kill the RNC.


We don't need a "large group force" in Somalia at all. The U.S. is supporting the war in that area the correct way. That is, by a show of modern warfare with Gunships such as the image finding AC-130.

We'll check to see who we killed tomorrow. Meanwhile, it's back to the base and BBQ'ed Brauts. :D

10thzodiac
01-12-07, 07:03 PM
As reported on Chicago's public television this evening, that the presidents troop surge equals about 5 more troopers per platoon. Also that the army's new directive on winning against an insurgency like Baghdad alone will take 150-200,000 troops 5 to 10 years.

Is this a plan ?

greensideout
01-12-07, 11:32 PM
Exactly! It give us more flexibility and teeth for policy pressure on Tehran.

Or maybe Israel is ready to attack those nuclear plants.

I do not think the public is ready to support large group force in Somalia anyway. That would kill the RNC.



Quote: "Or maybe Israel is ready to attack those nuclear plants".

No, I don't think so. The US will likely provoke Iran into a direct conflict and then will take out the nuke facilities thereby avoiding the Arab pressure on Israel.

Two birds with one stone.

10thzodiac
01-13-07, 09:34 PM
Quote: "Or maybe Israel is ready to attack those nuclear plants".

No, I don't think so. The US will likely provoke Iran into a direct conflict and then will take out the nuke facilities thereby avoiding the Arab pressure on Israel.

Two birds with one stone.

Listening to Pat Buchanan tonight (the McLaughlin Report), he believes the Republicans and the Democrats won't let Bush attack Irans nuclear facilities.

Pat believes Israel wants us too and is pressuring congress with the Israeli lobby to do so.

Is Pat self-actualizing past the cemetery ?

greensideout
01-13-07, 09:55 PM
I like Pat Buchanan but he has a problem (in my view) with Israel. He and I differ on that. I fully support Israel and I do not believe that he does.

Of course Israel wants us to do the job on the Iranian nuke facilities and I believe that we will. Thus the "surge". He is right on that.

10thzodiac
01-13-07, 10:13 PM
I like Pat Buchanan but he has a problem (in my view) with Israel. He and I differ on that. I fully support Israel and I do not believe that he does.

Of course Israel wants us to do the job on the Iranian nuke facilities and I believe that we will. Thus the "surge". He is right on that.

Agreed, Pat does have a problem with Israel. I'm surprised that he and General Zinni (according to Pat) feel that if we loose Iraq that the consequences are grave.

Are we ready for 5-10 years of insurgency, 150-200,000 more troops and another 'Black Granite Wall' because of George W. Bush, or should we start negotiating BIG TIME !

yellowwing
01-14-07, 10:39 AM
...or should we start negotiating BIG TIME !
What do we really have to negotiate with that Iran can't put on the table at a cheaper rate?

10thzodiac
01-14-07, 02:07 PM
What do we really have to negotiate with that Iran can't put on the table at a cheaper rate?

George W. Bush for openers, it worked for Italy (Mussolini) and they are friendly now http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif

kato811
01-14-07, 04:54 PM
Nothing like bull****ting the American people with fancy words. We had that many Service members over there in Dec 2005. More troops wont make a diffrence until they let the Troops take off the gloves and fight the way they trained us to fight.:marine: