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thedrifter
01-07-07, 02:05 PM
Mother fights for son who said no to war <br />
<br />
By Linton Weeks <br />
The Washington Post <br />
<br />
Carolyn Ho is a mother on a mission. <br />
<br />
She came to Washington, D.C., in mid-December to build support for her...

capmarine
01-07-07, 05:06 PM
shouldn't have joined the military service

DWG
01-07-07, 05:09 PM
Lotta tall trees going to waste out there. Missing a movement/desertion in time of war-what's the diff? Especially for an officer!

yellowwing
01-07-07, 05:15 PM
This is not the kind of &quot;special&quot; you want to be in the Service!

The1stSgt
01-07-07, 06:37 PM
He needs his okole fried in macadamia nut oil.

DWG
01-07-07, 06:44 PM
This is not the kind of "special" you want to be in the Service!

Are they the ones with the little bus who "go to the zoo" every day?:confused:

Quinbo
01-07-07, 07:20 PM
Probably went to college on a full ride ROTCsy grant and when they took his little wooden gun away and gave him a combat weapon he called his mama. Ok Lieutenant go supervise the painting of rocks and the raking of leaves.... I'm sure when that private says shure to ya they meant to say sir.

I hope his degree in underwater basket weaving and his military record serve him well. Maybe they should just give mom an M-16 and let him stay home and suck his thumb. Grrrrrrr

greensideout
01-07-07, 07:29 PM
When he joined, in 2003 we went to war because of WMD, right?

He is willing to fight in Afgan.

Quinbo
01-07-07, 07:52 PM
Philosophically speaking........ what if he wanted to go to Iraq and the Army wanted him in Afganistan? Would he have missed movement? Would he have called his mom in to fight his battles?

yellowwing
01-07-07, 08:03 PM
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehren_Watada) has some good info on Lt Ehren Watada. Appently he was an Eagle Scout and football star. The significant detail is that his Father "Bob Watada, served for ten years as executive director of Hawaii's Campaign Spending Commission."

Is this a spectacle carefully planned for politics?

greensideout
01-07-07, 08:17 PM
Philosophically speaking........ what if he wanted to go to Iraq and the Army wanted him in Afganistan? Would he have missed movement? Would he have called his mom in to fight his battles?


I can't answer your questions of course but to assume he is not willing to go into combat is not something that I saw in the article.

He is trained and ready so I say send his tail to Afgan as the Army can use all the assets it can find.

As far as not following orders go? He should wear that rank he has a long time!

datastorm
01-08-07, 08:25 AM
I'm thinking he should have thought of these "moral" implications BEFORE signing up for service. Folks this is a "poster boy" for some politicians to get their agendas boosted. Next to terrorist, politicians are more of a threat to our nation than even ol' Osama Bin Laden at times. I can respect someone's desire not to go to war. Hell most of us don't or did not relish the thought of fighting, but as Marines or in this soldier's case order's are order's and unless it's a truly unlawful order you do what your told. Sounds like this kid got his degree from the Micheal Moore school of how to weaken your nation. I personally hope they punish this trooper to the full extent of our military law. Even if you don't want to do it for your nation at the very least he should want to go to be there for his brothers in arms. What a pathetic person.

marinemom
01-08-07, 08:34 AM
"Phoebe Jones, of Global Women's Strike, an international anti-war network that supports Ho and Watada, was at Ho's side on Capitol Hill.

"The work of mothers is protecting life, beginning with their children," Jones said. "And that is really the opposite of the obscenity of war." "

As the mother of a Marine who has served two tours in Iraq - including the seige of Fallujah - and is preparing for his third "all expense paid" trip to the sand box, I beg to disagreee with Pheobe Jones' definition of "mothers' work" -and somehow I doubt she has children.

A mother's job is to prepare her child for the real world - not the world that we would all like our children to see.

A mother's job is demonstrate to her child that there is right and there is wrong - selection of either can bring consequences, but the selection of right will usually bring a consequence that once can be proud of.

A mother's job is to prepare her child for their role in life and the responsibility that the role will bring - be it soldier, tailor, tinker, spy as the old nursery rhyme goes - and to give them the knowledge that there are time when the job is not perfect - but you do your best.

A mothers' job is to instill in her child respect for his or her country, its history, traditions, laws and government. Let the child understand that dissent is healthy, each citizen does have a vote and that is a responsibility as well as a privilege.

It is a mother's job to teach the child that once your word is given, it cannot be easily taken back. Once an oath is sworn, to forsake that oath is wrong. It is, frankly, a mother's job to start the process of understanding "Honor, Courage, Commitment" early in a childs' life. It is a code that has meaning and relevance well beyond the Corps.

If Ms. Jones does not agree with my definition of "mothers' work", then I will have to remind her - as a kid who grew up in Brooklyn, in a "Mafia" neighborhood" - to please do her best not to ever be in my vicinity - because sometimes "mother" is only half a word............................

DWG
01-08-07, 09:03 AM
Hoorah! for you MarineMom; well said!:thumbup: :marine:

datastorm
01-08-07, 09:16 AM
Wow what can ya say to that!?!?!? Ooh rah Marinemom!

OLE SARG
01-08-07, 09:27 AM
Outstanding Marinemom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

Sgt Leprechaun
01-08-07, 11:02 AM
OUTstanding, MarineMom! BTW, this ding dong's father has been a protestor prior to this. Wish I'd have saved the article on that so can't reference it.

He should be dismissed from the service 'with prejudice' as a disgrace to his commission. I don't care WHAT he did prior to swearing his oath, it's what he's done since then, which is dishonor himself and the uniform.

From the Sgt Leprechaun quotes file....
************
"Experience proves that the man who obstructs a war in which his nation is engaged, no matter whether right or wrong, occupies no enviable place in life or history. Better for him, individually, to advocate "war, pestilence, and famine," than to act as an obstructionist to a war already begun... The most favorable posthumous history the stay-at-home traitor can hope for is--oblivion." U.S. Grant
************
"If you are unwilling to defend your right to your own lives, then you are merely like mice trying to argue with owls. You think their ways are wrong. They think you are dinner." --Terry Goodkind in "Naked Empire"
************

drumcorpssnare
01-08-07, 12:05 PM
Sounds like Lt. Watada needs a new set of ovaries. He obviously has no balls.
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

ErikHeiker
01-08-07, 01:06 PM
To Watada's attorney, Eric Seitz, the situation is more complicated.

"The United States talks out of both sides of its mouth," Seitz said. "We've prosecuted soldiers in other countries for following orders to commit war crimes. But God forbid you should use that refusal as a defense in this country."

With an idiot lawyer like that, it should be real easy to have the verdict overturned based on incompetent counsel. No one is asking this soldier to go to Iraq and commit war crimes. I know we get LOAC and UCMJ briefings before going into country. If I commit a war crime, I'm going to Leavenworth.

hrscowboy
01-08-07, 02:51 PM
WOW Orahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Marinemom

Sgt Leprechaun
01-08-07, 03:31 PM
Watada's attorney is giving soundbites to/for the faithful (moveon.org, the demoloser party, ACLU, etc etc). His actual courtroom defense will probably not hinge on that. <br />
<br />
If it does, he's the...

Sgt Leprechaun
01-08-07, 04:21 PM
Here's some more info on Watada. I think the lawyer is presenting a fallacious arguement. Note also that he went to a 'peace' convention to make some of his statements. <br />
<br />
...

GySgtRet
01-08-07, 04:45 PM
Your orations would have been better. Too bad she isn't around for waht you really want to say. Thanks Pat.

Semper Fi

vicsphotos
01-08-07, 11:16 PM
This isn't vietnam... We aren't in a serious troop crunch (as far as recruiting is concerned). Im not saying this should be active policy but no one ever know how your going to react to going to combat until it's looking you in the face. No one should be forced. We don't want our officers being forced to lead.

52yankee
01-09-07, 01:36 AM
He joined, he became an officer, the military probably paid for his education, and yet when the time comes to pay it back, he won't. Don't need that kind leading men. Go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Also, throw away the key!:evilgrin:

Sgt Leprechaun
01-09-07, 05:40 AM
No officer is 'forced to lead'. He swore an oath. His troops didn't have the option of saying "I quit"; they would face the same penalty.

He is a coward who should be drummed out in front of his command; the last thing he should feel is the cold, staring eyes of the troops he should have led in combat as the boot hits him on the ass out the gate.

vicsphotos
01-09-07, 06:33 AM
I dont disagree. Drum him out. Boot his ass. But prison time... Im not sure I can get behind that. - Jail time is not the best motivation for doing your damn job in combat.

ese4mc
01-09-07, 07:45 AM
Lets return "drumming out" as a method of getting rid of s---birds--of course that comes after their jail time is over :D :D :D

drumcorpssnare
01-09-07, 08:03 AM
I'll even uniform-up and supply the drummin'. :banana:
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

DWG
01-09-07, 08:16 AM
For officers, snap their sword and brand them on the cheek with a big "C". :mad:

HisSemperFiWife
01-09-07, 09:19 AM
My son made Corporal Nov. 1 and I am honored that he has learned to give his all to his committments and blessed to see him be courageuos. No, war is not pretty. I appreciate ALL of our servicemen who defend us, our rights, our counrty.

I am mom to 12 blessings and do NOT coddle them.
No whining allowed.
I love them with all my heart. We have fun together work hard and play hard and hug when approriate. I cook their favorite meals on special occassions.....That does NOT mean that I want them perpetually in diapers!
We have too many whiners in our society today who are unthankful for the many blessings that we have in this country.
Prior to my son joining the Corps, we had serious discussions regarding what this was all about. He made a committment and is keeping it in honor, courageously. He has spent 2 years combat duty, including Fallujah. Recon 31st MEU. Now he is training young pups stateside and they are talking of him going back in February.
To all of our men who have faithfully served in any capacity of our military, we say THANK YOU FOR SERVING ! .. but the USMC is the best :flag: :angel:

DWG
01-09-07, 09:27 AM
I think you are the one to be thanked, for raising a son as brave and patriotic as you have! THANK YOU, HisSemperFiWife! :marine: (Did you say 12; tip o' the hat to you ma'am!):scared: You've got your own squad!

Jon-Man
01-09-07, 10:30 AM
Now there is a Mom a Marine can be proud of!! :thumbup:

Marine84
01-09-07, 10:31 AM
what did this idiot think he would be doing joining the military? Some folks.................I swear.

AND................if he's 28 and STILL has Mama fighting for him - he ain't got the balls that I think he needs to wear that bar (for one thing) and to lead other men.

I don't want him in MY Corps! Put him in the brig! Take his bar - shave his head and send him back home to Mama!

SuNmAN
01-09-07, 10:48 AM
Wikipedia:

[edit] Education
He attended Punahou School, then transferred in his sophomore year to Kalani High School, where he played cornerback on the varsity football team. His father, Bob Watada, served for ten years as executive director of Hawaii's Campaign Spending Commission.

An Eagle Scout and near straight-A student, Watada graduated from Hawaii Pacific University in 2003 [3] and joined the US Army after the war in Iraq began. Watada stated that after 9/11 he was motivated "out of a desire to protect our country." Watada first served a tour in Korea, where he was rated by his superiors as "among the best", "exemplary", and recommended for early promotion ahead of his peers. Watada then returned to the United States in June 2005 and reported to Ft. Lewis army base to begin preparation for deployment to Iraq.[4]

Upon discovering that he would be going to Iraq, Watada began conducting research on the war. After reading about International Law, the history of Iraq, articles by scholars as well as governmental and non-governmental agencies,[5] and speaking with veterans returning from Iraq,[4] he ceased to believe in the legality and morality of the war. In January 2006 he submitted a resignation request, declaring that he would not serve in Iraq. Based on this research, Watada claimed, the war violates the Constitution and War Powers Act which "limits the president in his role as Commander in Chief from using the armed forces in any way he sees fit", as well as the UN Charter, the Geneva Conventions, and the Nuremberg Principles, which "bar wars of aggression." Further, he asserted that the war was based on misleading or false premises such as the existence of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, alleged links between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda, and that the occupation itself does not follow the Army's own legal rules of conduct for occupying a country. For all of these reasons, says Watada, he cannot morally participate in the war.[6]

The Army refused his resignation. Watada has said he is not a conscientious objector because he is not opposed to war as a principle, only the war in Iraq, and so offered to serve in Afghanistan,[7] which he regarded as "an unambiguous war linked to the Sept. 11 attacks." This was also refused. Watada, in turn, refused an offer for a desk job in Iraq without direct combat involvement.[4] Lt. Watada's initial term of service ends on December 3, 2006; however, the US Army may choose to extend its officers' tours of duty at its discretion.


oh well at least he volunteered to go to Afghanistan, and they said he was stellar in peacetime and recommended for quick promotion.

I don't agree with him refusing deployment but I can see where he is coming from.

SuNmAN
01-09-07, 10:50 AM
Article 32 hearing <br />
Lt. Watada's article 32 hearing was held on August 17, 2006. Investigating officer Lt. Col. Mark Keith presided. <br />
<br />
The Army prosecutor, Capt. Dan Kuecker, described Watada's...

DWG
01-09-07, 10:52 AM
Guess we know where our next john kerry is coming from; only this guy isn't even wasting 3 months in-country!

DWG
01-09-07, 10:55 AM
Wikipedia:

[edit]

oh well at least he volunteered to go to Afghanistan, and they said he was stellar in peacetime and recommended for quick promotion.

I don't agree with him refusing deployment but I can see where he is coming from.

Do you see no irony here?

Sgt Leprechaun
01-09-07, 10:58 AM
I don't care what his resume is. I also don't care how much 'research' he supposedly did to justify his cowardice.

He doesn't get to 'pick and choose' where he wants to go and when he wants to serve. Obviously, he never read his officers handbook.

Of course his civilian lawyer "would be dismayed", since his civvie lawyer is a good liberal idiot like himself. As would the LtCol who resigned (wonder if she had her 20 when she did so).

Again, he doesn't get to pick and choose. They even offered him a fobbit job, which he refused.

My opinion remains unchanged.

Sgt Leprechaun
01-09-07, 11:03 AM
It would appear this runs in the family.... <br />
I'm sure you will all be as shocked as I am. <br />
<br />
Watada: Like father, like son <br />
<br />
During Vietnam, Bob Watada was able to avoid serving <br />
<br />
&gt;&gt; Watada could...

SuNmAN
01-09-07, 11:03 AM
I don't care what his resume is. I also don't care how much 'research' he supposedly did to justify his cowardice.

He doesn't get to 'pick and choose' where he wants to go and when he wants to serve. Obviously, he never read his officers handbook.

Of course his civilian lawyer "would be dismayed", since his civvie lawyer is a good liberal idiot like himself. As would the LtCol who resigned (wonder if she had her 20 when she did so).

Again, he doesn't get to pick and choose. They even offered him a fobbit job, which he refused.

My opinion remains unchanged.

wasn't trying to change your opinion, just wanted to look up a few facts before I form mine.

Sgt Leprechaun
01-09-07, 11:05 AM
And, he's now become an anti war poster child:


http://thankyoult.live.radicaldesigns.org/content/view/178/

Want to see more of this 'innocent lads' parents anti war activities?

Simple. Just google 'bob watada'. Plenty of reading material out there.

SuNmAN
01-09-07, 11:05 AM
I respect Bob Watada for serving in the Peace Corps when he did not believe in the Vietnam War as opposed to fleeing to Canada. <br />
<br />
The Peace Corps is no summer camp. Instead of bullets and booby...

SuNmAN
01-09-07, 11:07 AM
And, he's now become an anti war poster child:


http://thankyoult.live.radicaldesigns.org/content/view/178/

Want to see more of this 'innocent lads' parents anti war activities?

Simple. Just google 'bob watada'. Plenty of reading material out there.


yeah thats frickin BS

I think he has become a shame to all those brave Japanese Americans who fought for the 442nd Regimental Combat Team in WW2

SuNmAN
01-09-07, 11:09 AM
Do you see no irony here?

I see none because I would not refuse a deployment to Iraq, ESPECIALLY as a leader of US troops.

Sgt Leprechaun
01-09-07, 12:39 PM
I respect Bob Watada for serving in the Peace Corps when he did not believe in the Vietnam War as opposed to fleeing to Canada.

The Peace Corps is no summer camp. Instead of bullets and booby traps, you got malaria and dysentry trying to kill you.

Besides he probably he a lot more good helping people in Peru than he would've done killing people in Vietnam.

I have no problem with that personally.


Sigh.

Malaria/Dysentary. There are meds and shots you can take for that.

Do you think that every single person who served in Vietnam..or even in Iraq for that matter, are out with their ass in the grass getting trigger time?

Why does everyone assume that orders to Iraq (or Vietnam) automatically is gonna be in firefights the minute they get off the plane/ship????

Note that when he returned from his little Peace Corps jaunt, he got another notice for induction, instead, he went to graduate school.

IF he were a Republican, he would be villified far and wide as a coward/draft dodger etc. Instead, he's touted as some sort of hero.

Typical hypocritical liberals.

SuNmAN
01-09-07, 02:27 PM
Sigh.

Malaria/Dysentary. There are meds and shots you can take for that.

Do you think that every single person who served in Vietnam..or even in Iraq for that matter, are out with their ass in the grass getting trigger time?

Why does everyone assume that orders to Iraq (or Vietnam) automatically is gonna be in firefights the minute they get off the plane/ship????

Note that when he returned from his little Peace Corps jaunt, he got another notice for induction, instead, he went to graduate school.

IF he were a Republican, he would be villified far and wide as a coward/draft dodger etc. Instead, he's touted as some sort of hero.

Typical hypocritical liberals.

I don't tout him as a hero whatsoever

but hey, he didn't break the law.

The draft board offered to let him serve in the Peace Corps and he did

Then he was smart enough to get into grad school and the government did not draft students in grad school and he did

he's no hero, but he's a helluva lot better than those who just fled to Canada.

Vietnam was a conflict in which the national security of the United States was NOT threatened whatsoever.

This man did not volunteer for the US military as his son did. He did not want to go to war, so he found a legal means to avoid it.

Sgt Leprechaun
01-09-07, 02:49 PM
I don't tout him as a hero whatsoever

but hey, he didn't break the law.

The draft board offered to let him serve in the Peace Corps and he did

Then he was smart enough to get into grad school and the government did not draft students in grad school and he did

he's no hero, but he's a helluva lot better than those who just fled to Canada.

Vietnam was a conflict in which the national security of the United States was NOT threatened whatsoever.

This man did not volunteer for the US military as his son did. He did not want to go to war, so he found a legal means to avoid it.

So, you would apply that same standard to someone who joined the National Guard at the same time period?

I won't get into the Vietnam conflict issue right now, because I simply don't have the time.

10thzodiac
01-09-07, 03:01 PM
"Courage is the first of human qualities because it is the quality which guarantees the others" ~ Aristotle

<SUP class=reference id=_ref-4></SUP>
<TABLE style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 1px solid; BACKGROUND: wheat; BORDER-LEFT: 1px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 8px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px solid; POSITION: relative" width=270 align=left><TBODY><TR><TD>We were cursed, beaten, kicked, and compelled to go through exercises to the extent that a few were unconscious for some minutes. They kept it up for the greater part of the afternoon, and then those who could possibly stand on their feet were compelled to take cold shower baths. One of the boys was scrubbed with a scrubbing brush using lye on him. They drew blood in several places.
Mennonite from Camp Lee, Virginia, United States, 16 July (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_16) 1918 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918).<SUP class=reference id=_ref-5>[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector#_note-5)</SUP>


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><SUP class=reference id=_ref-10></SUP>
<SUP></SUP>
<SUP>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector</SUP>

Sgt Leprechaun
01-09-07, 03:06 PM
Hey, 10th, good to see ya! I take it that quote is from a CO from WWI? That's my guess without researching it.

DWG
01-09-07, 03:52 PM
he's no hero, but he's a helluva lot better than those who just fled to Canada.

This man did not volunteer for the US military as his son did. He did not want to go to war, so he found a legal means to avoid it.

For the same reason I respect what Scott Baez(Joans' hubbie) did, he went to jail instead of service, on principle. I'd rather serve my country than serve time. He could have run but he wouldn't. Don't like him, but respect him more than any "runners"! Anyone who went to Canada should have had to stay there (and put up with Yellow Wing).:mad: And the main point of this , is the Lt. VOLUNTEERED! Was NOT drafted.

Sgt Leprechaun
01-09-07, 04:00 PM
Exactly DWG. I'd have more respect if he just said "I'm a coward and scared, I plead guilty prior to trial and take what punishment falls my way".

Nsot5711
01-09-07, 04:01 PM
This case is open and shut, he missed movement and let his brothers go to Iraq with one less person. I say burn the son of a *****.

vicsphotos
01-09-07, 04:08 PM
Many of you are responding emotionally to this story. Ive heard everything from branding him to jailing him... My only question is... What gives you the right. I was a Marine and I dont stand in judgement of other Marines. Just remember as Marines we have to pride ourselves on our strength. It is not the strong thing to degrate this man. But hump a mile in his boots.:flag:

DWG
01-09-07, 04:14 PM
Screw him, he's a doggie-string him up!:mad:

SuNmAN
01-09-07, 04:55 PM
So, you would apply that same standard to someone who joined the National Guard at the same time period?

I won't get into the Vietnam conflict issue right now, because I simply don't have the time.

as far as I'm concerned the National Guard is part of the US military.

SuNmAN
01-09-07, 04:57 PM
Exactly DWG. I'd have more respect if he just said "I'm a coward and scared, I plead guilty prior to trial and take what punishment falls my way".


I honestly do believe that he is sincere about what he says based on what I've read

but the law is the law

especially for an Officer that is a leader of US soldiers. He cannot get a blank check and must receive his due punishment.

USMCJohn
01-09-07, 05:02 PM
It's a shame that people don't understand the oath they take. They think "Well I dont like the job, I will just quit". This is a comittment, not a 9-5'r. I just hope I don't have to see this as a regular event. To my fellow Marines, Welcome home and thank you for your service.:flag:

SuNmAN
01-09-07, 05:05 PM
It's a shame that people don't understand the oath they take. They think "Well I dont like the job, I will just quit". This is a comittment, not a 9-5'r. I just hope I don't have to see this as a regular event. To my fellow Marines, Welcome home and thank you for your service.:flag:


I hate to be defending this guy because I don't agree with what he's doing...BUT

he's not quitting because he "doesn't like the job". He refuses to go fight in Iraq because he no longer believes in the legality and morality of the Iraq War. And there are many, many (like 2/3rds) of Americans who share his view.

DWG
01-09-07, 05:17 PM
I hate to be defending this guy because I don't agree with what he's doing...BUT

he's not quitting because he "doesn't like the job". He refuses to go fight in Iraq because he no longer believes in the legality and morality of the Iraq War. And there are many, many (like 2/3rds) of Americans who share his view.
The "blue" states don't make up 2/3, no matter what the MSM says.

USMCVet1992
01-09-07, 05:35 PM
As Marines, it is not our job to think of the "moral" implications of fighting in the conflicts or wars, it is simply our job to win them. If he doesnt believe in the "morality" or "legality" of the war, maybe he should have stayed in college instead of joining the military. As far as what the "2/3" believes, they never saw the brutal oppression of Saddam Hussein, and just do not understand. They eat what the media feeds them. WMD's or not, hussein needed to go. The WMD's were there.... maybe not now, but they were. This Lt needs to be thrown the f**k out with a dishonorable. Any Officer that would allow his men to be deployed without him, is a coward and deserves a dishonorable.

SuNmAN
01-09-07, 05:44 PM
As Marines, it is not our job to think of the "moral" implications of fighting in the conflicts or wars, it is simply our job to win them. If he doesnt believe in the "morality" or "legality" of the war, maybe he should have stayed in college instead of joining the military. As far as what the "2/3" believes, they never saw the brutal oppression of Saddam Hussein, and just do not understand. They eat what the media feeds them. WMD's or not, hussein needed to go. The WMD's were there.... maybe not now, but they were. This Lt needs to be thrown the f**k out with a dishonorable. Any Officer that would allow his men to be deployed without him, is a coward and deserves a dishonorable.

I disagree. We CAN AND SHOULD think about the morality of not only the conflict but also the orders we are given. I'm not saying "question every order you're given" but I am saying - follow your conscience.

Otherwise incidents like My Lai and Abu Ghraib will occur.

This Army Lieutenant had a moral dilemma but he is taking the wrong route about it.

As a commanding officer of his platoon, he has a responsibility to the men he leads. He should have deployed to Iraq with his men and lead his men in a fashion that would not come in conflict with his conscience, such as doing his best to help out the civilians, protecting the civilians from insurgent attacks and administering medical aid.

As a platoon commander in Iraq within a Stryker Brigade, I'm sure he would be put in a situation during his tour to be able to save not only the lives of his fellow American soldiers but especially the lives of Iraqi innocents and improving the lives of the locals. That would have been the honorable ways about it.

Instead he wants to sit as home, protest the war and face court martial which just might ruin his career even beyond military service.

That is why I disagree with this man, but he is being villified beyond what he deserves.

yellowwing
01-09-07, 05:46 PM
Israel had a whole group of military dissenter in the ranks of the IDF. They were glad to serve in Lebanon and even willing to go kick ass in Syria if need be. But they refused deployment into Gaza or the West Bank citing morality.

The Israeli high courts ruled that the dissenters could not pick and choose.

I don't think our UCMJ will treat Lt Entada any different.

greensideout
01-09-07, 06:04 PM
"Pick and choose". Hummm, kind'a sounds like a good idea.

Siberia or caribbean Marine? I'll hit the beach Sir! :D

yellowwing
01-09-07, 06:10 PM
Can you imagine Chesty Puller saying, "I'll go fight in Haiti again but not Korea!"

greensideout
01-09-07, 06:33 PM
Korea was the only war in town at that time. We have two now (and of course many more) so I liked the goofy idea of a choice.

Shesss---it was just a joke Wing!

yellowwing
01-09-07, 06:45 PM
Korea was the only war in town at that time. We have two now (and of course many more) so I liked the goofy idea of a choice.

Shesss---it was just a joke Wing!
I know Bro, I should have added a goofy :banana:.

The whole idea struck me as funny. Kind of like trying to imagine saying to the Inspector General, "Hey buddy, how's it going?" :banana:

SuNmAN
01-09-07, 07:51 PM
Israel had a whole group of military dissenter in the ranks of the IDF. They were glad to serve in Lebanon and even willing to go kick ass in Syria if need be. But they refused deployment into Gaza or the West Bank citing morality.

The Israeli high courts ruled that the dissenters could not pick and choose.

I don't think our UCMJ will treat Lt Entada any different.


I can see where they're coming from too (the dissenters)

muck
01-09-07, 08:09 PM
She sat down with staffers in the offices of Sens. Patty Murray, D-Wash., and Daniel Akaka, D-Hawaii, and aides from the offices of Reps. Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif., John Conyers, D-Mich., and Waters.

The mom met with only Democrats - I wonder why that is. Maybe because they and the Commie Dems may have planned this prior to his refusing a "LEGAL" order to cause more dissent among the uninformed public.

outlaw3179
01-09-07, 08:41 PM
OH give me a fu*king break! Since when do you get to pick and choose where when and who you will fight. You signed the mother****ing contract. Dont you think maybe just maybe as he was signing it would have ocurred to this ******* that he may have to spend some time in Iraq. Give me a break. Sunman you keep trying to convince everyone about what stellar Marine you are and how the Marine Corps is so lucky to have you around. Devildog Im here to tell you , that none of the sh*t you have done means or will mean a fu*king thing when you are in country. If your Marines do not trust you and they cannont depend on you , you are worthless. I personally from how you talk on theese forums would always second guess you, I would never expect anything out of you oher than the bare minimum of a basically trained Marine. I will say it again, I believe you lack the discipline to pull the trigger in a situation where the very lives of the Marines around you depend on it. No Marine who have actually served in a forward line company gives a sh*t about your high PFT, your moral convicitions, your political points of view, your assesment on the war in Iraq, what your exit strategy is, or how you think the poor fu*king muslims are being mistreated. Your purpose in life should be to learn as much knowledge about your enemy and begin to prepare for the crucible of combat. Then is not the time to start quizzing yourself on validity of the fight your in , or trying to get the Marines around you to 100% fully and without question your abilities as a Marine and as a leader.

rb1651
01-09-07, 09:36 PM
outlaw, I couldn't agree with you more. SunMan, I've read your posts and bit my tongue on more than one occasion, but now I have to ask, what f***ing oath did you sign? The topic here is about a man, and I use that term loosely, avoiding an oath that he voluntarily took, and now wants to ingnore? The oath I took said that I would honor and obey all legal orders from the Commander In Chief, our President. This worm has obviously taken his own worthless interests over his sworn oath, and asked his mommy to fight for him. I have no respect for him, and personally not a whole lot of respect for you trying to defend his actions. I appreciate a differing view on subject matter, but to me this is not the thinking of the Marine Corps that I know and love.

And by the way, Mom and Wife, thank you for all that you have sacrificed to ensure our freedom with your gifts to the Corps. God Bless both of you.

SuNmAN
01-10-07, 12:06 AM
She sat down with staffers in the offices of Sens. Patty Murray, D-Wash., and Daniel Akaka, D-Hawaii, and aides from the offices of Reps. Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif., John Conyers, D-Mich., and Waters.

The mom met with only Democrats - I wonder why that is. Maybe because they and the Commie Dems may have planned this prior to his refusing a "LEGAL" order to cause more dissent among the uninformed public.


he will be punished. No Congressman can save him.

SuNmAN
01-10-07, 12:10 AM
OH give me a fu*king break! Since when do you get to pick and choose where when and who you will fight. You signed the mother****ing contract. Dont you think maybe just maybe as he was signing it would have ocurred to this ******* that he may have to spend some time in Iraq. Give me a break. Sunman you keep trying to convince everyone about what stellar Marine you are and how the Marine Corps is so lucky to have you around. Devildog Im here to tell you , that none of the sh*t you have done means or will mean a fu*king thing when you are in country. If your Marines do not trust you and they cannont depend on you , you are worthless. I personally from how you talk on theese forums would always second guess you, I would never expect anything out of you oher than the bare minimum of a basically trained Marine. I will say it again, I believe you lack the discipline to pull the trigger in a situation where the very lives of the Marines around you depend on it. No Marine who have actually served in a forward line company gives a sh*t about your high PFT, your moral convicitions, your political points of view, your assesment on the war in Iraq, what your exit strategy is, or how you think the poor fu*king muslims are being mistreated. Your purpose in life should be to learn as much knowledge about your enemy and begin to prepare for the crucible of combat. Then is not the time to start quizzing yourself on validity of the fight your in , or trying to get the Marines around you to 100% fully and without question your abilities as a Marine and as a leader.


1. I'm not trying to convince ANY of you of my capabilities. I only wanted to outline that my political views have nothing to do with my competence. All I need to know is that I'm fully confident that I am capable once my name is called.

I make plays.

2. I thought we were talking about Lieutenant Watada? Why is the focus point shifting on me now?

3. This Lieutenant is going to jail for refusing deployment. What more do you want? He will receive his due punishment. The only thing I was trying to say is that just MAYBE not everyone who refuses to go to Iraq is doing so out of cowardice. I do believe the sincerity of his beliefs, but he is taking the wrong way about it in my opinion.

SuNmAN
01-10-07, 12:12 AM
outlaw, I couldn't agree with you more. SunMan, I've read your posts and bit my tongue on more than one occasion, but now I have to ask, what f***ing oath did you sign? The topic here is about a man, and I use that term loosely, avoiding an oath that he voluntarily took, and now wants to ingnore? The oath I took said that I would honor and obey all legal orders from the Commander In Chief, our President. This worm has obviously taken his own worthless interests over his sworn oath, and asked his mommy to fight for him. I have no respect for him, and personally not a whole lot of respect for you trying to defend his actions. I appreciate a differing view on subject matter, but to me this is not the thinking of the Marine Corps that I know and love.

And by the way, Mom and Wife, thank you for all that you have sacrificed to ensure our freedom with your gifts to the Corps. God Bless both of you.


I never once said he should be pardoned or anything of the sort. But I like to put myself in other peoples shoes instead of just being hard headed and casting quick judgment. Thats all.

I agree that we should obey all lawful orders. This man obviously didn't and he will be punished.

SuNmAN
01-10-07, 12:18 AM
All my responses in this thread are based on articles I've read about this guy and by me imagining - &quot;how would I feel if I was Lieutenant Watada&quot; <br />
<br />
Its really not being conservative or liberal, its...

jinelson
01-10-07, 01:35 AM
by SuNmAN - I can see where they're coming from too (the dissenters)


Brother perhaps you have forgotten this, its called our Code Of Conduct and since you are currently wearing our uniform it applies to you and the scumbags that you seem to feel you need to defend like Kerry, Murtha, Watada, Arcade; et al. You may like to read it for nostalgia sake. Like the man said either you are with us or you are with the terrorists. We are at war and you are a Marine dont you think its time that you at least started to think like a warrior? The warm and fuzzy of your acadamia leftest perversion is getting your brothers and sisters killed and maimed on a daily basis. There was a time that I had the highest of hopes for you in my Corps, but that was before you gave into your conditioners at the university and lost all you were instructed in recruit training. You whine about your unit but if you remember as instructed it is your place and duty to correct it when those above do not. I agree that your unit is in no way deployable at this time but that can be corrected. But it takes Marines with balls to correct that and I dont think your the Marine for that mission.

Jim

I am an American fighting man. I serve in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense. I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command I will never surrender my men while they still have the means to resist. If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy. If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way. When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause. I will never forget that I am an American fighting man, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

jinelson
01-10-07, 01:59 AM
Oh and SuNman - IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS - RIGHT, LEFT OR UP A MODERATES A$$, ITS ABOUT BEING A UNITED STATES MARINE THAT IS CURRENTLY SERVING AND BEING COMPENSATED BY MY GOVERNMENT AND UPHOLDING THE VALUES OF THOSE THAT WENT BEFORE HIM!

JIM

thedrifter
01-10-07, 07:19 AM
The case against Lt. Ehren Watada <br />
Editorial <br />
The Seattle Times <br />
<br />
First Lt. Ehren Watada of the Stryker Brigade, U.S. Army, Fort Lewis, refused to obey orders to deploy to Iraq, becoming the first...

drumcorpssnare
01-10-07, 07:59 AM
Back when I was stationed at K-Bay with the Marine Drum Corps, I volunteered to teach each and every marching band on Oahu. This included Punahou and Kalani High schools. These two, and a couple others seemed to be full of students who were egotistical, stuck-up brats. Hard to teach, because they already knew everything, ya know?
So, if the same is still true of the schools Watada attended, he too is probably a spoiled snot!
I think the solution is that Lt. Watada needs surgery. He needs an "addadicktome." Because right now, he's actin' like one of those cross-gender "mahu's" from Hotel St. in Honolulu. He probably still wets the bed and sucks his thumb too.:evilgrin:
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

nptwildcat
01-10-07, 08:26 AM
Wow! Now that's what I call a MOM!

SuNmAN
01-10-07, 10:04 AM
Brother perhaps you have forgotten this, its called our Code Of Conduct and since you are currently wearing our uniform it applies to you and the scumbags that you seem to feel you need to defend like Kerry, Murtha, Watada, Arcade; et al. You may like to read it for nostalgia sake. Like the man said either you are with us or you are with the terrorists. We are at war and you are a Marine dont you think its time that you at least started to think like a warrior? The warm and fuzzy of your acadamia leftest perversion is getting your brothers and sisters killed and maimed on a daily basis. There was a time that I had the highest of hopes for you in my Corps, but that was before you gave into your conditioners at the university and lost all you were instructed in recruit training. You whine about your unit but if you remember as instructed it is your place and duty to correct it when those above do not. I agree that your unit is in no way deployable at this time but that can be corrected. But it takes Marines with balls to correct that and I dont think your the Marine for that mission.

Jim

I am an American fighting man. I serve in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense. I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command I will never surrender my men while they still have the means to resist. If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy. If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way. When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause. I will never forget that I am an American fighting man, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

I have not forgotten

not a day goes by that I forget that I serve in the United States Marine Corps.

I have never once said that Watada should be pardoned

Neither have I said that I would do what they did.

All I said was that I wanted to see things from their point of view for a change before I cast judgment, and I'm being villified for it.

SuNmAN
01-10-07, 10:06 AM
See, I agree with that.

DWG
01-10-07, 10:47 AM
, and I'm being villified for it.

Why does this STILL suprise you? I would think you'd be used to it by now!:p :banana:

SuNmAN
01-10-07, 10:56 AM
Why does this STILL suprise you? I would think you'd be used to it by now!:p :banana:


yes, still surprised.

10thzodiac
01-10-07, 09:01 PM
<TABLE class=contentpaneopen><TBODY><TR><TD class=contentheading width="100%">Democracy Rising "Interview" with Smedley D. Butler, Major General, USMC </TD><TD class=buttonheading align=right width="100%"></TD><TD class=buttonheading align=right width="100%"></TD><TD class=buttonheading align=right width="100%"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=contentpaneopen><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left width="70%" colSpan=2>Written by Kevin Zeese </TD></TR><TR><TD class=createdate vAlign=top colSpan=2>Tuesday, 29 March 2005 </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=2>http://democracyrising.us/images/stories/smedleybutler1.jpg (http://democracyrising.us/content/view/191/164/)Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, one of the most colorful officers in the Marine Corps, was one of the two Marines who received two Medals of Honor for separate acts of outstanding heroism. General Butler was born in 1881 and raised as a Quaker. He was still in his teens when he was commissioned as a second lieutenant for the war with Spain and served in the Philippines, China, Puerto Rico, Panama, Nicaragua, Mexico, Haiti, France, and, after a stint as Director of Public Safety in Philadelphia, in China again. General Butler died at the Naval Hospital in Philadelphia on 21 June 1940. At the time of his death the most decorated marine in U.S. history.


General Butler is no longer with us in body, but his spirit and his popularity live on. He left us a legacy in deeds and words which we have used to construct this imaginary interview that is based on verbatim words or paraphrased quotations.

Kevin Zeese: General Butler, Marine Corps General Zinni has recently said that going into Iraq was a strategic blunder. Do you agree?

General Butler: When our forefathers planned this government, they saw no necessity for foreign wars, for wars that didn't concern us. As a matter of fact, after we got our independence our army and navy were eliminated. The Constitution states that the Congress has the power to provide for the common defense, and has the power to raise and support armies, but it also states that such forces can't be funded for more than two years. We had a militia, that is each state had a militia, but this was the only armed force at the time and was not to be used beyond the territorial limits of the United States. If you look into history, you will find that during the War of 1812 a certain regiment of militia marched northward toward Canada, but they refused to cross the border and went home.The militia was for home defense only. That's what our armed forces should be. Home defenders, ready and able to defend our homes, to defend us against attack, and that's all.

Kevin Zeese: If you had found yourself in Iraq with the Marines, would you have conducted a deadly "shock and awe" campaign? Do you think it's fun to shoot people as Marine Corps General Mathis recently said?

General Butler: Well, I served in the Marine Corps for thirty-three years, and of course my military philosophy evolved. As a seventeen year old second lieutenant in the Boxer rebellion, and then as a field grade officer in Central America and Haiti, I conducted myself with a certain flair. Later, as a brigadier general commanding troops in China again, I had a different, and I think more successful, way of dealing with the differences of opinion that normally occur in the course of human events. We had some intersts in China at the time, and some Americans were just hoopin' and hollerin' for military action. I, however, felt that they all had personal axes to grind. They were just trouble makers and not problem solvers. If you took them seriously and tried to listen to everything that they said, you'd be hoplessly mixed up. I felt that the local people should settle, among themselves, their own form of government and their own ruler. Our job was to make sure they didn't molest our people, that's all. As long as I was commander, we weren't going to do what we did in the Banana Wars. We weren't going to cause a lot of violence and take over their banks and run things the way we did in Central America. I felt that the millions of dollars in American capital in China was nothing compared to the taxes Americans would have to pay for the battleships and Marines to protect them. At the time, we were known as 'the Marines who wouldn't fight,' which was fine with me. My views haven't changed.

Kevin Zeese: What do you think of the current political situation in Washington, with Wall Street and the neocons in control of the government and their talk of continuous war?

General Butler: Back in my day we had similar people. In Italy there was Benito Mussolini, who said: "Fascism . ..believes neither in the possibility or the utility of perpetual peace . . .War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy." As you may know, I was arrested and threatened with court-martial for criticizing Mussolini at the time. Later on, I stopped the bankers' putsch against Roosevelt.. See, some Wall Street big shots wanted to topple President Roosevelt and the New Deal. I was a life-long Republican, and they knew that I was a soldier's general, so they approached me and wanted me to lead an army of five hundred thousand veterans to overthrow the government. We'd do the whole thing from Civilian Conservation Corps camps, which were already set up. If I refused, they were going to get MacArthur. Well, I blew the whistle on them. I always sided with the underdog against the rich and powerful with their damnable wars, and I'd do it again.

I spent 33 years and 4 months in active service as a member of our country's most agile military force--the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from second lieutenant to Major General. And during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism. I suspected I was part of a racket all the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all members of the military profession I never had an original thought until I left the service."

Kevin Zeese: Getting back to the Iraq war, many reports say that the troops are being treated poorly, they have their service extended, that their equipment and medical care are substandard and their lack of financial support is punitive and insulting. We don't hear of a soldier's general these days, how did you operate differently?

General Butler: If you take care of the troops, they'll take care of you. Some military people are just careerists, and you can't expect civilians who never served to understand soldiers. In 1917, when I commanded the training base at Quantico, I opposed elevating the Corps Commandant to lieutenant general so long as the soldiers were getting no extra reward for doing the heavy work in the trenches. When I was sent to France, we had a situation where we were building up to a million men but our camp was knee-deep in eternal mud and supply requisitions weren't working. So one afternoon I marched down to the docks with seven thousand men, confiscated fifty thousand sections of duckboards (wooden slats to be used in trenches), plus some shovels and kettles that we needed, and we carried them back to camp. Since I too carried a duckboard up the hill, I became known as General Duckboard. Years later, in 1932, when President Hoover and the Congress had denied these brave men their bonus, and twenty thousand of them gathered in Washington, I urged them to stick it out. I got up on this rickety stand they had built and said: "You hear folks call you fellows tramps, but they didn't call you that in '17 and '18. I never saw such fine soldiers. I never saw such discipline . . . You have as much right to lobby here as the United States Steel Corporation." If I were around today I'd be up on that stand again, believe me.

Kevin Zeese: There has been a lot of evidence of corporate profiteering on this current war, extending to the highest levels. What's you view?

General Butler: War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of the war a few people make huge fortunes. New millionaires and billionaires are created in a war. How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle? Out of war nations acquire additional territory. They just take it. This newly acquired territory is exploited by the few-- the self-same few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill. And what is this bill? This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations. Truly, war is a racket.

Kevin Zeese: What do you suggest Americans do to stop this war?

General Butler: The Government declares war. To say helplessly: As individuals we have nothing to do with it, can't prevent it. But WHO ARE WE? Well, "WE" right now are the mothers and fathers of every able-bodied boy of military age in the United States. "WE" are also you young men of voting age and over, that they'll use for cannon fodder. And "WE" can prevent it. Now--you MOTHERS, particularly.

The only way you can resist all this war hysteria and beating tomtoms is by hanging onto the love you bear your boys. When you listen to some well-worded, well-delivered speech, just remember that it's nothing but Sound. It's your boy that matters. And no amount of sound can make up to you for the loss of your boy.

Kevin Zeese: Finally, general, how do we end this war racket?

General Butler: Well, it's a racket all right. A few profit, and the many pay. But there is a way to stop it. You can't end it by disarmament conferences, peace parlays in Geneva or well-meaning resolutions. It can be smashed effectively only by taking the profit out of war.

First, before the government can recruit or conscript young people for military service, they must conscript politicians and industry and labor. Pay them $1500 a month, the same that the soldiers get. They aren't running any risk of being killed or having their bodies mangled or their minds shattered, so why shouldn't they?

Second, hold a limited plebiscite to determine whether war should be declared, not of all the voters, but merely those who would be called upon to do the fighting. Why have the old president of a munitions firm or the flat-footed head of a tank plant vote on a venture of high profit and no risk to them?

A third step in this business of smashing the war racket is to make certain that our military forces are truly forces for defense only. At each session of Congress the question of naval appropriations comes up. The swivel-chair admirals in Washington are very adroit lobbyists. And they are smart. They don't shout: "We need a lot of battleships to war on this nation or that nation." Oh no. First they say that our nation is menaced by a great naval power, poised to strike suddenly and annihilate our people. Next they cry for a larger navy, for defense purposes only, of course. Then, they announce maneuvers in the Pacific Ocean, and the Indian Ocean, and the Gulf of Arabia, and any other place that's blue on the globe. The countries that border on these waters will be pleased beyond expression to see these warships just off their shores, just as we would be pleased as punch to see, through the morning mist, Japanese warships playing at war games off Los Angeles. I have proposed a constitutional amendment to limit our military forces to home defense purposes only. Let's pass all our suggested antiwar legislation, let's attend all the peace and disarmament conferences, let's have all the war protest meetings we can arrange, but if we really want to make war impossible, then let us by all means insist upon adding a Peace Amendment, such as the one which I have drafted, to the United States Constitution. That's how we can smash the war racket.

Smedley D. Butler, Major General
United States Marine Corps, 1935
Double recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor

For further information visit the Smedley Butler Society at http://www.warisaracket.org (http://www.warisaracket.org/).




</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

outlaw3179
01-11-07, 04:08 PM
Why do you keep posting this crap? Some imaginative wet dream interview wich will never happen. Damn Z , time to get some new material Marine.

10thzodiac
01-11-07, 05:35 PM
Why do you keep posting this crap? Some imaginative wet dream interview wich will never happen. Damn Z , time to get some new material Marine.

outlaw3179, it's one thing to repeat history's mistakes because one is ignorant of history and it's another when aware of history and still repeat it. The latter is called plain ****** stupid.

Don't want anyone to say, "I didn't know."

It might be old material to you, but what about the new kids on the block ? I learned about General Butler on another Marine site. A former drill instructor who was critical of what the Marine Corps was not teaching recruits.

If you're finding General Butlers "War is a Racket" philosophy too redundant, you do know about the ignore button ?

SF
10thz

Sgt Leprechaun
01-12-07, 10:12 AM
SuN, your problem (throwing in again, my 2 cents worth) is that you seem to prefer to "see things from Lt Wannabees' point of view". My question to that, is "Why on earth would you want to???"

I could give a flying rip about his point of view. I don't want to see it. He gave up his right to even have me read his point of view when he not only defied lawful orders, but became a poster child for the rabid anti war left.

You'd be surprised how open minded I am, and can be, but when you 'sign the papers', you SIGN THE DAMN PAPERS. There is no middle ground, wiggle room, or anything else. No one forced him to go, and he doesn't get to pick and choose like some kinda high school club or sports team. In that same vein, hell, the wussie US Army even offered to let him sit on the bench if he were to just attend the game! (Non-combat duty). He even refused that.

I like the old ways best, I suppose, because, not too long ago, within memory of folks still living in this country, he would have been summarily shot. I have no problem with that, either.

OLE SARG
01-12-07, 10:30 AM
Leprechaun, you and I think alike - KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!!!

I agree too that Z should get some new material!!!

SEMPER FI,

Sgt Leprechaun
01-12-07, 10:34 AM
SSgt, thanks, again :)

Believe it or not, I hadn't seen the Butler interview before. I don't agree with it, but I do find it interesting.

At least MGen Butler had reason to think the way he did, he sure as hell had BTDT and got the Tshirts to prove it. Again, I don't agree with him, but it's interesting.

killerinstinct
01-12-07, 10:59 AM
well i do understand his point of view and i while i commend him for standing up for what he believes, he wasn't asked to murder a woman and her unborn child. He took an oth to kill and go to war when ordered and he not only betrayed his fellow troops for his cowardness, he betrayed his own word which makes him a POS. But it was the army and i understand their standards and am not suprised.

USMCBOXER
01-12-07, 01:50 PM
This soldier is a traitor to his country, plain and simple. His actions are those of a coward and deserter, not some deep, philosophical thinker. To try to portray it as anything else is trying to sugar-coat the obvious. To then cast his equally dubious mother in a light of a "poor-suffering-mother-fighting-for-her-son-in-this-wretched-war" is the political agenda machine hard at work, nothing more.

He signed up knowing what was at stake. The day our armed services are religated to allowing their members to pick and choose where they want to go, what they want to do, how much they want to give of themselves in service of their country, will be a sad day indeed.

This, as others have said, is a carefully calculated political move. That's all.

10thzodiac
01-12-07, 02:18 PM
I signed the paper, did my time, there was no political future for me if I changed my mind, just the brig.

Our DI told us in boot camp, "If you think its bad here, the brig is worse!"

Must be nice to have something going for you, maybe he'll succeed Daniel Inouye ?

Sgt Leprechaun
01-12-07, 03:01 PM
No way he could do that, at least Inouye served honorably and got a DSC (later upgraded to MOH).

10thzodiac
01-12-07, 05:06 PM
Hawaii is so liberal that in the 2004 presidential Democratic caucuses Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) won but liberal Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) finished a close second.

Daniel Akaka (82), HI was rated the most liberal Senator in the 100-member Senate in 1998

Daniel Inouye (82), HI Liberal - Moderate-to-Liberal - Government Reform - Health Care Reform - Jobs/Industrial Growth - Pro Alaska/Offshore Oil Drilling - Pro-Affirmative Action - Pro-Choice - Pro-Labor - Special Forces - U.S. Army - Christian - Methodist - Protestant - Straight -

skong222
01-20-07, 05:05 PM
Since when does any branch of the military allow its members to decide which fight to fight. All these cry babies want to join the military for college, travel or adventure? Military officers are not allowed to be in politics or to campaign in uniform. There is no place for individualism in the army. Maybe mommy will send him some cookies and milk in the stockade.

MP5811
01-20-07, 06:05 PM
Send him to the brig. When you sign your name on the dotted line you know that going to war is a possibility. If your opposed to war dont sign the contract to defend our country. Maybe he should have looked into green peace instead.

Ironrider
01-30-07, 05:12 PM
:evilgrin: Awright, the clown signed on AFTER the war started, got his commission, got all his bennies. And THEN when ordered to deploy, he decided that it was the wrong war? Hang the prick....

semperfi170
01-30-07, 05:29 PM
He probably wants to work for john kerry! After, kerry dishonored his oath as an officer by protesting while still in the active Naval reserve, plus throwing his medals away!

Bozooka
01-30-07, 07:40 PM
Guilty for missing a movement... Throw him out with dishonorable. Get a refund for the education he got with our tax dollars! Then send him to Canada!!!

MP5811
01-30-07, 07:52 PM
canada is to good for him. he will probably be Hillary Clintons choice for secretary of the navy.

LTomita
01-30-07, 08:07 PM
As a mom who is getting ready to see her oldest off to bootcamp I can only say...Exactly!!

Bozooka
01-30-07, 08:29 PM
canada is to good for him. he will probably be Hillary Clintons choice for secretary of the navy.

Or he just might become Hanoi Kerry and Hanoi Jane's Mouth peace for the Anti War movement..De Ja Vue ain't it?:evilgrin: Yup you are right Canada is to good for him lets send him to France!

MP5811
01-30-07, 08:39 PM
France would be the perfect place for them.

hoytarcher45
01-30-07, 09:07 PM
I can't even believe that the Army offered to give him a desk job in Iraq after his objection. They should have shoved a boot up his ass and told him to get on the damn plane.

MP5811
01-30-07, 09:10 PM
an ounce of lead in the head would have been much cheaper. he isnt worth the money to fly him back.

Bozooka
01-30-07, 09:21 PM
I can't even believe that the Army offered to give him a desk job in Iraq after his objection. They should have shoved a boot up his ass and told him to get on the damn plane.

The Army does some weird things.. My son-in law has been out of the Army for 5 years. Well he couldn't make it in the real world so went to the army recruiting station and reenlisted after 5 years! They even gave him a new MOS. he was a tank driver with the 3rd Armored, Well now they sent him to school to be a helicopter mech. But that's not all they never even gave him a fitness test or anything like that ! They just sent him off to school .The good part about it is he had to join for 6 years..

MP5811
01-30-07, 09:27 PM
The army hasnt ever been know as the elite fighting force like the USMC has been. All other branches are second best.

Bozooka
01-30-07, 09:27 PM
an ounce of lead in the head would have been much cheaper. he isnt worth the money to fly him back.

:bunny: .........Poof............:bunny:

Bozooka
01-30-07, 09:36 PM
The army hasnt ever been know as the elite fighting force like the USMC has been. All other branches are second best.


:thumbup: .....A MEN......:thumbup:

"The deadliest weapon in this world is a MARINE with his rifle"
Gen. Pershing, U.S ARMY

Sgt Leprechaun
01-31-07, 05:33 AM
The arrrrmmy is all about 'go along to get along'. I firmly believe they need cannon fodder troops; i.e., people that are trained NOT to think or do anything that higher 'management' doesn't want them to. Thus, it's easier for the army to replace a 2nd Lt platoon leader and offer him a desk job, thus allowing another 2nd Lt who WANTS to go out on patrol to do so.

I'd like to see him stood up against a wall and shot.

rockyusmc
02-06-07, 07:05 AM
marine mom..thanks youve said it all!i was always taught that your word is your bond!

rockyusmc
02-06-07, 07:39 AM
guys,i agree with most of what has been posred.but iwould really like to hear from the guys who have been in iraq.lets get their opinions.any active duty guys out therte?

thedrifter
02-06-07, 07:58 AM
Army officer and critic of Iraq war faces court-martial for refusing to deploy <br />
<br />
By: MELANTHIA MITCHELL - Associated Press Writer <br />
<br />
FORT LEWIS, Wash. -- The judge in the case against the first...

10thzodiac
02-06-07, 08:19 AM
"Army prosecutors have argued that Watada's behavior was dangerous to the mission and morale of soldiers in Iraq."

10thz -Gees, if a Lieutenant in the American army could do that, WTF is our wars coming too ! Just think if Hitler had that problem, he wouldn't of been able to kill so many ****** Germans ! http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif

drumcorpssnare
02-06-07, 10:17 AM
Watada needs to turn in his Army issue uniform, and put on a little Girl Scout dress! Freakin' sissy, cry baby, pee pee pants!!!
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

HisSemperFiWife
02-06-07, 10:25 AM
Watada needs to turn in his Army issue uniform, and put on a little Girl Scout dress! Freakin' sissy, cry baby, pee pee pants!!!
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

um er ROFL,,, um... yessir but even our girls aren't cry babies !
WELL PUT THOUGH

:usmc: :usmc: Two Marines in my family ! Sergeant Husband and Corporal son !

drumcorpssnare
02-06-07, 10:31 AM
HisSemperFiWife- Didn't mean to disrespect the Girl Scouts, but this wimp is obviously too old for the Brownies or Camp Fire Girls!!!:banana:
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

Bozooka
02-06-07, 10:34 AM
Watada needs to turn in his Army issue uniform, and put on a little Girl Scout dress! Freakin' sissy, cry baby, pee pee pants!!!
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

Drum..I want my TAX dollars back he used to get his f--uckn education with I'm sure mommy didn't lay IT out!...

nptwildcat
02-06-07, 10:43 AM
Ummmm our country was attacked, but the Army will pay for my education. We won't go to war, will we? nah. Besides if we do, mommy will make me come home.

What's this little ***** going to do when the fighting is in his neighborhood, hide in the basement under mommies skirt?

My son just enlisted. He leaves for P.I. on the 5th of March. He was asked if he was affraid of being sent to Iraq. His reply, "better than having to fight them in Ky".:flag:

drumcorpssnare
02-06-07, 10:46 AM
Drum..I want my TAX dollars back he used to get his f--uckn education with I'm sure mommy didn't lay IT out!...

Bozooka- Don't be too sure his "mommy" didn't "lay" it out... If you read the article carefully, you'll see that "mommy's" name is "Ho."!!!:banana:
drumcorpssnare:usmc:

Quinbo
02-06-07, 11:05 AM
Ummmm our country was attacked, but the Army will pay for my education. We won't go to war, will we? nah. Besides if we do, mommy will make me come home.

What's this little ***** going to do when the fighting is in his neighborhood, hide in the basement under mommies skirt?

My son just enlisted. He leaves for P.I. on the 5th of March. He was asked if he was affraid of being sent to Iraq. His reply, "better than having to fight them in Ky".:flag:

NPTWILDCAT ..... your kid should run for president. No truer statement have I read on any board. Let us know his boot camp addy. I would vote for him in 08

10thzodiac
02-06-07, 11:09 AM
Ummmm our country was attacked, but the Army will pay for my education. We won't go to war, will we? nah. Besides if we do, mommy will make me come home.

What's this little ***** going to do when the fighting is in his neighborhood, hide in the basement under mommies skirt?

My son just enlisted. He leaves for P.I. on the 5th of March. He was asked if he was affraid of being sent to Iraq. His reply, "better than having to fight them in Ky".:flag:

I, like the Lieutenant must of been not watching TV that day, Iraq attacked America ? What channel did you see that on http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif

Doesn't that stupid army Lieutenant know the Iraqi's are coming to get us http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/34.gif

DWG
02-06-07, 11:26 AM
I, like the Lieutenant must of been not watching TV that day, Iraq attacked America ? What channel did you see that on http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif

Doesn't that stupid army Lieutenant know the Iraqi's are coming to get us http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/34.gif

That has nothing to do with it. The Lt. ENLISTED, took an oath and now has disobeyed a direct order, violating his oath. It's not his decision to make as to which orders he will follow or which wars he chooses to fight in. That decision was taken out of his hands when he CHOSE to become part of the military.

And don't worry 10Z, the army and Marines will protect even you!

Bozooka
02-06-07, 11:33 AM
That has nothing to do with it. The Lt. ENLISTED, took an oath and now has disobeyed a direct order, violating his oath. It's not his decision to make as to which orders he will follow or which wars he chooses to fight in. That decision was taken out of his hands when he CHOSE to become part of the military.

And don't worry 10Z, the army and Marines will protect even you!

Chalk one up for George..:D

10thzodiac
02-06-07, 11:38 AM
That has nothing to do with it. The Lt. ENLISTED, took an oath and now has disobeyed a direct order, violating his oath. It's not his decision to make as to which orders he will follow or which wars he chooses to fight in. That decision was taken out of his hands when he CHOSE to become part of the military.

And don't worry 10Z, the army and Marines will protect even you!

Thanks for reassuring me that I won't have to hide from the Iraqi's in the basement under mommies skirt. I was getting "terrified" there for awhile http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

S/F

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/22.gif

P.S. Yes, DW is good http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Quinbo
02-06-07, 11:39 AM
Ahhh kids.... we have our morning formations and questions about tooth brushing and warm clothing selected for wear on that day. Kids endure bible reading while eating scrambled eggs and boiled oatmeal.

The one discussion that has endured is what side of the bed should I sleep on. It finally came clear one day when my wife said you should sleep closest to the door. After all the room re-arranging I had to ask why. Simple answer.... I know I will sleep soundly if there is a Marine between me and the door. There will never be an intruder come in here with you on watch.

Funny how little things can touch your heart.

10thzodiac
02-06-07, 11:47 AM
"Ask [former Marine] John Wayne about intruders in the night !" ~ Lorena Bobbitt http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorena_Bobbitt

DWG
02-06-07, 11:50 AM
You mean John Wayne BOBBIT! That's what he got for sleeping on duty in the presence of the enemy!

:( :thumbdown

10thzodiac
02-06-07, 11:55 AM
When I was corporal of the guard, I caught a few. The last time they ever did that without me.

S/F

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/24.gif

Quinbo
02-06-07, 11:57 AM
Awe shoot ..... mocking someone .... well go ahead

nptwildcat
02-06-07, 12:03 PM
I, like the Lieutenant must of been not watching TV that day, Iraq attacked America ? What channel did you see that on

Did I say Iraq? Our country was attacked. Period! Turn your stripes in and join this wimp and his mommy. The heroes serving our country doing their duty will protect even you!

Bozooka
02-06-07, 12:06 PM
When I was corporal of the guard, I caught a few. The last time they ever did that without me.

S/F

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/24.gif

10thz LT.Watada must have been your O.D...:beer:

baron00
02-06-07, 12:09 PM
When you join the military you give up your right to decide when and where you want to go. If he was sent to Afganistan and one of his men had a problem doing something he was told to do would be ok to refuse. Are you saying that troops should be asked if they have a problem with fullfilling their orders before they are given? Carry out your orders and get out at the end of your obligation.

10thzodiac
02-06-07, 01:10 PM
Actually, the OD told me, &quot;I can't find one your sentries.&quot; I had an idea where he was and walked right up to him where he was sleeping on a roof. Scuttlebutt had it for that post, that if you saw...

10thzodiac
02-06-07, 02:17 PM
As his lawyer noted, Watada repeatedly looked for ways out of this confrontation with the military. When he realized he could not allow himself to deploy to Iraq, Watada asked to be sent to...

jinelson
02-06-07, 02:35 PM
by 10thzodiac - The good reviews he received from his commanders until this year, make it impossible to suggest he is a coward in military clothing—to "Swift Boat" him, as was done with Vietnam veteran John Kerry during the last presidential election—and his succinct eloquence makes it hard to call him crazy or unhinged, as was done to Cindy Sheehan.

Your right for once, he is just a common criminal who's mommy doesent want him to have to pay for his conduct unbecoming an officer in the Army Of One! I hope the little punk gets to spend many years making little ones out of big ones at Leavenworth. Im sure he will be treated well there since he is so special and above everyone else.

long time no argue

Jim

10thzodiac
02-06-07, 05:41 PM
Your right for once, he is just a common criminal who's mommy doesent want him to have to pay for his conduct unbecoming an officer in the Army Of One! I hope the little punk gets to spend many years making little ones out of big ones at Leavenworth. Im sure he will be treated well there since he is so special and above everyone else.

long time no argue

Jim

I did notice http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif


S/F
Richard http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/22.gif

Hobson
02-08-07, 03:51 PM
Mistrial Declared In Watada Court Martial <br />
<br />
<br />
POSTED: 9:05 am PST February 7, 2007 <br />
UPDATED: 5:23 pm PST February 7, 2007 <br />
<br />
&lt;div nd=&quot;1&quot; class=&quot;StoryBody&quot;&gt;&lt;!--startindex--&gt;FORT LEWIS, Wash. -- The...

Bozooka
02-08-07, 04:41 PM
:evilgrin: Take away all the perks he got to sign!! Now lets try him with all the charges they originally were going to charge him with. <br />
<br />
:devious: Then fry the pussy. Scumbag deserter

HisSemperFiWife
02-08-07, 04:50 PM
PLEA BARGAINING ?!?!?!?!?! I feel sick
What ever happened to right and wrong and honor and taking of oaths actually meaning something ?

~~~Mom of an HONORABLE, COURAGEUOS USMC Corporal ! who has already had two straight years combat duty ... recon! ... without whining :)

Sgt Leprechaun
02-09-07, 05:40 AM
Sad to say, it's what our system has come to.

The good news is, he's now facing 6 years.

I'd like to see him face a firing squad, but I'm kinda radical that way.

Bottom line, tho, is he enlisted/was commissioned after 9/11. He knew the risks of being deployed. He should not have been under any illusions about having some sort of 'choice' where he wanted to go.

This really isn't about politics, support/non support of this, or any other war. It's about signing your name, voluntarily, to the freakin contract, then deciding to back out because you are either a coward, scared, or whatever.

He's a scumbag, and will always be a scumbag in the eyes and minds of real fighting men everywhere.

3077India
02-09-07, 06:16 AM
I find it to be confusing that he has insisted he isn't a coward and yet his actions (refusal to go Iraq) convey something else. :confused:

Sgt Leprechaun
02-09-07, 06:23 AM
Naturally he wouldn't think he was a coward. Mommy says he's not, Mother sheehan says he's not, and hollyweird says he's not. Therefore, the rest of our opinion doesn't matter, does it?

I'd love to see him stripped of all buttons, rank, ribbons, awards (if any) in full dress uniform, then marched out the Main Gate of his post, while the troops turn their backs to him. The last words he should hear:

"Begone, coward! Leave this company of heroes, darken our doorstep no longer, walk in shame for the remainder of your days, your name reviled amongst men of honor!"

Bozooka
02-09-07, 06:44 AM
Check out who is supporting this creep! All Commie groups

http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr001=fvoay4cwu1.app5b&page=NewsArticle&id=6373&news_iv_ctrl=1261



http://www.socialistworker.org/2007-1/618/618_02_Watada.shtml


http://www.antiwar.com/glantz/?articleid=10474

Sgt Leprechaun
02-09-07, 07:04 AM
Yep. Typical.

And, naturally, the 'unbiased' "mainstream media" hasn't mentioned this...now have they?

3077India
02-09-07, 07:17 AM
I'm amazed that entertainers (actors, musicians, etc.) seem to think that they are so much more intelligent than the rest of the nation, especially the President and his staff, cabinet and advisers, when most entertainers don't have much more than 1 or 2 years of College probably less than that.

Whereas the President, his staff, cabinet and advisers have at least a masters degree and make public service a career. Since these guys aren't telling the entertainers how they should entertain, why don't these entertainers (college and high school dropouts) stop telling the President and his people how to do their's by keeping there f***ing opinions to themselves or at least out of earshot of the media.

rockyusmc
02-09-07, 07:35 AM
india,because they are popular they think that, that m.akes them very wise.they also feel ,because they are popular that they can sway public opinion.what i dont get is their hatred of this country.they have made fortunes here,yet they cant find enough bad things to say.why they dont lleave is amystery.most of them are shallow minded idiots.if it werent for their god given talent you would probably never hear from them:mad: :usmc:

DWG
02-09-07, 08:23 AM
india,because they are popular they think that, that m.akes them very wise.they also feel ,because they are popular that they can sway public opinion.what i dont get is their hatred of this country.they have made fortunes here,yet they cant find enough bad things to say.why they dont lleave is amystery.most of them are shallow minded idiots.if it werent for their god given talent you would probably never hear from them:mad: :usmc:

Because most of them are shallow minded idiots, they want to be popular, no matter what. The left wing semi-intellectuals in Hollwierd, who seem overwhemingly brilliant to these dolts, convince them that this is what the rest of America would think if we were just smart enough. Among their left leaning friends in LA they all think they are just "so clever and witty" when they slam America and giggle at how thick the unwashed masses are that don't "get it". None of them have ever had to make a living in the real world(even the jobs they might have held were just until they "made it" in acting). Plus the fact that "acting" is their livlihood-they make a living parroting the words and actions of others, so it's no big brain-washing feat to put the words of the left in their mouth and point them at a camera. If it "sounds" clever then, by definition, they must be clever! I notice very damn few put their lives or fortunes at risk for their views! But you can bet your a$$ they don't mind if our taxes are raised to support their flaky ideas. Once upon a time most actors had served their country. This lot only serve themselves!

rockyusmc
02-09-07, 09:17 AM
thanks,d.w..what i do now, is boy cott any one of these idiots who think this is a bad country.i especially detest sean penn,fonda and their ilk.when my daugther was in usaf,way back,she organized a protest at the px,because they were selling fondas workout tape.if more people would do that,maybe at least we wouldnt have to hear their stupid opinions.

DWG
02-09-07, 09:28 AM
thanks,d.w..what i do now, is boy cott any one of these idiots who think this is a bad country.i especially detest sean penn,fonda and their ilk.when my daugther was in usaf,way back,she organized a protest at the px,because they were selling fondas workout tape.if more people would do that,maybe at least we wouldnt have to hear their stupid opinions.

Last good movie fonda made, and last one I paid to see, was Barbarella! ;) I rarely go to the theater to see a movie.

Sgt Leprechaun
02-09-07, 11:10 AM
I don't either, maybe once a year at the most.

I have no problem with them expressing their opinions, as long as I can express mine that they are scumbags.

The only place hollyweird 'celebrities' will feel pain is if you hit them in the wallet; not going to their crappy movies, buying their crappy workout tapes, etc etc., and convincing others to do the same. THAT is the American way.

d c taveapont
02-09-07, 03:46 PM
damn, i wish my Mother stood up for me...But as usual...She said...if ya break it..YOU pay for it.......and as usual Mom was right......May god bless her soul.....mom has been gone now 29 yrs...

10thzodiac
02-09-07, 04:22 PM
Last good movie fonda made, and last one I paid to see, was Barbarella! ;) I rarely go to the theater to see a movie.

Just as I was unknowingly admiring Jane's silicone, my then teenage (now 42) daughter said, "Dad, that's Jane Fonda !"

You know what, I didn't give a siht http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/01.gif

DWG
02-09-07, 07:19 PM
Great flick for the sixties! Saw it in a dump in downtown Dago!

10thzodiac
02-09-07, 07:44 PM
Great flick for the sixties! Saw it in a dump in downtown Dago!

We were on vacation with the kids and saw it in a motel somewhere. I was flipping the channels at night and really didn't know who it was http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/01.gif, till the kid told me. Had to change it before the boss saw it http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/12.gif

DWG
02-09-07, 08:33 PM
We were on vacation with the kids and saw it in a motel somewhere. I was flipping the channels at night and really didn't know who it was till the kid told me. Had to change it before the boss saw it http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/12.gif

Aw, hell; it was pretty wild for the 60s, but real tame compared to anything ten years after. Just hot because jane did her "best" work in it. LOL :D
Sounds like the boss don't like you looking at round eyes!:confused:

ARMY GRUNT
03-05-07, 05:54 PM
I Have A Solution Everyone Will Agree With. First Of All The Bible States "give Unto Ceasar What Is Ceasar..... And To God What Is God's" This Means Service To God And Service To Country. Second Of All... He Should Be Under Arrest... Put On A Plane... Sent To A Holding Facility In Iraq Or Afghanastan..... Then His Court Martial Should Be Held There With A Jury Of His Peers From There. That's Called Let God Sort It Out... During Vietnam Deserters Weren't Afforded An Oportunity To Return Stateside For A Trial And Concienscous Objectors Were Sent To Vietnam To Conduct Human Aide..... Only When Some Got There They Were In Line Units And Told.... If You Don't Want To Carry A Gun That's On You..... That Didn't Last Long After The Bullets Started Flying.

USMCmailman
03-05-07, 07:00 PM
If you don't want to follow orders you should not be in the military!!! <br />
Throw him out with a bad discharge!!!!!! Then slap his mother!!!!!

SkilletsUSMC
03-05-07, 07:07 PM
Make him an E1 and put him in my squad... Oh... yeah....

MIKECHRY
03-05-07, 09:12 PM
This isn't vietnam... We aren't in a serious troop crunch (as far as recruiting is concerned). Im not saying this should be active policy but no one ever know how your going to react to going to combat until it's looking you in the face. No one should be forced. We don't want our officers being forced to lead. he was offered an "admin" job and he refused.

USMCmailman
03-06-07, 08:18 AM
RIGHT ON BROTHER MAN !!!!!!!!!!!! <br />
Oh Yah and tell the Media to ESABATM!!!!

maverickmarine
03-06-07, 08:25 AM
Damn right. You joined so go get some. That's some funny **** &quot;throw him out and slap his mother&quot;. LOL

USMCmailman
03-06-07, 08:53 AM
Maverick, I'm glad you liked it! Unlike Full Metal Jacket, My nickname really was the Joker!!!!!!

maverickmarine
03-06-07, 09:12 AM
I bet. I pulled up to formation one day blaring Danger Zone from Top Gun and my Gunny just shook his head and said "alright there friggin' Maverick", yeah it stuck. Still like the song though, LOL.

OLE SARG
03-06-07, 09:33 AM
The ******* needs a bunk party (you know the soap in a sock BEATING). It just might change his outlook on life and some decisions he has made recently!!!!! HA HA HA

SEMPER FI,

rockyusmc
03-06-07, 09:34 AM
what id it with all these humps?they love all the perks and goodies.but when it comes time to pay for them,they want out.what did they think they were signing up for?a picnic?sunday school?they shot some poor slob in ww2[pvt.slovik],who was retarded anddidnt know which way was up.why should this s***mbag get away with it?give him a fair trial and then soot him.:mad: : :evilgrin: :flag:

fmoyer
03-06-07, 01:06 PM
Give him a fair trial and then hang him, hang him high for all to see.

gwladgarwr
03-06-07, 02:03 PM
Me, personally, with a dog in this fight (sorta), his momma (actually his stepmother) should be popping him on the back of the head for breaking a promise, which is exactly what he's doing. He plays...

timhagen
03-06-07, 02:28 PM
This is an open and shut case. The use-of-force was authorized by Congress and has been continually funded by the same. The Commander-in-chief deployed the troops and continues to direct the operations in Iraq. There is no illegallity to the war in Iraq that much is clear. The fact that Lt. Watada(Not very deserving of the title Lt.) doesn't agree with it is completely irrelevant, and his research skills are pathetic otherwise he'd have noticed that Congress approved and the CiC ordered the mission. Unless inordinate political pressure is applied, he is going to prison.

3077India
03-06-07, 06:58 PM
Give him a fair trial and then hang him, hang him high for all to see.Hanging is too good for him, just think of how much of an insult it would be to all the decent people who have been hung in the past. :p

The most appropriate penalty for him would be to draw and quarter him.

Sgt Leprechaun
03-06-07, 07:46 PM
Like I've said before about others of his ilk, (no offense to ilks anywhere...) he should be beaten with cinderblocks until my arms are tired. Then someone else can take over.

oldtop
03-07-07, 10:04 AM
Some Food for Thought::
1. The military service IS NOT the NFL. You can not enter into a binding contract (Enlistment / acceptance of a commission) then "re-negotiate" the terms of the contract ( I will serve here...but not serve there...fight in ___ but not in ___).
2. Military personnel do not have the liberty to "Pick their Fight"... our elected officials make the decision of When, Where, and Who the US military will fight, and unfortunately, define specific "Rules of Engagement" to limit HOW HARD we are allowed to fight.
3. A Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine "GOES WHERE HE IS TOLD TO GO, AND FIGHTS WHOM HE IS TOLD TO FIGHT" end of story! Anyone that thinks that they can "opt out" because they don't like the particular war at the time, or because "I only joined for the education benefits, not to fight anyone" or for any other a$$inine reason "my mother's uncle's brother was a ____, so I don't want to fight against ____s." deserves a long tour of duty as an inmate at Leavenworth so that they can become acquainted with the Realaties of the world and how things work, 'cause their momma must have raised them to think that they could always have things their way. Sorry, it ain't so Joe, the world, and expecially US Military service IS NOT BURGER KING! You can't have it your way a$$hole, you don't even get to place your order! Take what you get, drive on, and have a nice big cup of STFU.

USMCmailman
03-07-07, 10:33 AM
Some Food for Thought::
1. The military service IS NOT the NFL. You can not enter into a binding contract (Enlistment / acceptance of a commission) then "re-negotiate" the terms of the contract ( I will serve here...but not serve there...fight in ___ but not in ___).
2. Military personnel do not have the liberty to "Pick their Fight"... our elected officials make the decision of When, Where, and Who the US military will fight, and unfortunately, define specific "Rules of Engagement" to limit HOW HARD we are allowed to fight.
3. A Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine "GOES WHERE HE IS TOLD TO GO, AND FIGHTS WHOM HE IS TOLD TO FIGHT" end of story! Anyone that thinks that they can "opt out" because they don't like the particular war at the time, or because "I only joined for the education benefits, not to fight anyone" or for any other a$$inine reason "my mother's uncle's brother was a ____, so I don't want to fight against ____s." deserves a long tour of duty as an inmate at Leavenworth so that they can become acquainted with the Realaties of the world and how things work, 'cause their momma must have raised them to think that they could always have things their way. Sorry, it ain't so Joe, the world, and expecially US Military service IS NOT BURGER KING! You can't have it your way a$$hole, you don't even get to place your order! Take what you get, drive on, and have a nice big cup of STFU.
You remind them Top sometimes people forget what they sign, even if he is an officer and a-------well you know! An *******!