View Full Version : Buying a rifle to practice
ModelMinority
12-31-06, 10:52 PM
This is my first ever post. Greetings and respect to members of this forum.
This wannabe thinks it is a good idea to purchase a rifle to get familiar with it. This wannabe had never used rifle in his life before. This wannabe did a weak research and came up with AR-15. However, this wannabe's suspicion is AR-15 is too short, thus with less effective range. If this wannabe's permission to ask is granted, what will be the closest rifle on the market to the one recruits will be issued in bootcamp?
jinelson
12-31-06, 11:03 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/jinelson/156100.jpg
Welcome Aboard Brad!
Save your money and dont buy a smoke pole until after you finish boot camp. Why? You ask, because you are a virgin shooter and thats the best marksman in recruit training. The reason is the PMI's will teach you to shoot the Marine Corps way and you will not have developed any bad habits that are very hard and painful to correct. Just trust me and do yourself a big favor!
OORAH!!!
Jim
ModelMinority
01-01-07, 02:06 AM
Thank you, sir!
Makes perfect sense. Case closed!
Echo_Four_Bravo
01-01-07, 04:26 AM
Model, you do not need to practice before you get there. You will be taught.
But, to answer your question, and AR-15 is the tame version of the M-16 that is available to the public. You can buy them with many different sized barrels. Some people buy 16 inch barrels to try to be "tactical" others buy 24 inch barrels and achieve some fantasitc marksmanship ratings. There are countless ways you can buy the "evil black rifle" with different stocks, sights, rails, handles, and everything else.
ggyoung
01-01-07, 12:08 PM
Time frame is 1964, bootcamp,Camp Mathues rifle range. A little pvt. Broke the range record. He had never held a rifle before this.
Messenger
01-01-07, 05:26 PM
The best preparation I could recommend would be to start stretching and specifically, sitting with legs crossed “Indian style” ( not a vary politically correct description but effective). Start stretching those muscles, tendons in your groin area. This will be beneficial when shooting from the sitting position.
Long before you ever step foot on the range you will spend weeks sitting in this position to get you in shape for it but if you start now you will be more prepared then most.
Semper Fi
Sgt Leprechaun
01-01-07, 09:04 PM
Yeah, don't waste your $$$$, and pick up bad habits prior to going. You'll be far better off. You might, however, do exactly what Messenger says. That WILL pay off.
ModelMinority
01-01-07, 10:33 PM
Understood. Thank you!
Echo_Four_Bravo
01-01-07, 11:13 PM
I figure as long as we're talking about it, I may as well post a picture of my favorite toy.
http://www.stagarms.com/cart/images/stag_arms_20big.gif
yellowwing
01-01-07, 11:57 PM
If you want to spend money on pre-training, take some extra swimming courses:
YMCA - 401 E Michigan St, Indianapolis, IN 46204, USA - (317) 685-9705
YMCA - 7900 Shelby St, Indianapolis, IN 46227, USA - (317) 881-9347
YMCA - 8400 Westfield Blvd, Indianapolis, IN 46240, USA - (317) 253-3206
A higher swim qual rating looks good and may save your life or another Marine someday.
ModelMinority
01-02-07, 12:27 AM
Sir, that is funny you mentioned swimming. Matter of fact, this wannabe had just signed up for IUPUI beginner's swim class, few hours ago. This wannabe had checked YMCA website to inquire about adult swim classes with no avail. Although YMCA is located close to this wannabe's residence. This wannabe will check with YMCA again.
rktect3j
01-02-07, 12:22 PM
I figure as long as we're talking about it, I may as well post a picture of my favorite toy.
http://www.stagarms.com/cart/images/stag_arms_20big.gif
Looks just like mine Echo.
jinelson
01-02-07, 12:52 PM
This is my idea of a smoke pole and I will never agree with the logic of switching to the M16A1. I'll pack the extra wieght any day in exchange for accuracy and peace of mind that knock down provides.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/jinelson/m14rifle.jpg
Zulu 36
01-02-07, 01:08 PM
That M14A1 rathers sucks as an automatic rifle. Too light in the barrel. I have shot it quite a bit and carried it a lot playing OpFor. Even with blanks it overheats too fast and makes holding on a chore. With ball ammo it climbs like a son of a ***** and is tough to hold down even with the fancy handles and all. Three round bursts baby, nothing more. Looks bad-assed though.
Now, the M14 as a battle rifle is a different story. I agree 100% it is worth the weight, especially if you have to engage at any distance. And people shot with one know it.
Soon2BeVIP
01-02-07, 03:03 PM
Sir, that is funny you mentioned swimming. Matter of fact, this wannabe had just signed up for IUPUI beginner's swim class, few hours ago. This wannabe had checked YMCA website to inquire about adult swim classes with no avail. Although YMCA is located close to this wannabe's residence. This wannabe will check with YMCA again.
Aw you do that so good already. I need to start practicing that because I'm leaving in 6 months. That whole talking about yourself in the 3rd person. I'm guessing it's somewhat easy to pick-up because I'm going to be scared to say anything when I first get there, but doesn't hurt to stop saying I so much
I see alot of you Marines are like don't pick up a gun, don't shoot, etc.
What about the *countless* Marines and soldiers who have gone on to be excellent marksmen because they grew up around guns? Sgt. York and Carlos Hathcock come to mind.
I realize there's a difference between buying a gun, developing bad habits while blasting away at a rifle range, then going to boot as opposed to shooting running ducks in the back yard for 15 years, but I've seen alot more cases of "I've shot all my life, and I'm a really good shooter" than "I never shot a gun before, and now I'm an expert with firearms."
This is just my little 'ole poolee opinion and feel free to let me know how you feel about it, gentlemen.
drumcorpssnare
01-02-07, 03:37 PM
Listen-up poolee- These Marines are givin' you the straight scoop. The PMI's at the range are the best marksmanship instructors in the entire world! Do everything...EXACTLY as they tell you, and you'll probably shoot "Expert" on qual day.
Sgt. York and Gunny Hathcock started shooting when they were literally 'kids.' It became second nature to them. Besides...they are world famous icons. You, on the other hand, have not yet achieved that status.
You wanna be ready? Study Marine Corps history. Learn to swim...well. Start distance running...with a 4' length of 2" iron pipe carried at 'port arms.'
Start doin' push-ups, chin-ups, sit-ups, and lots and lots of jumping-jacks and bends & thrusts. Lots of 'em. Practice standing at attention, without moving a muscle, for as long as possible. Begin to discipline yourself...NOW.
Best wishes to you in your future with the Marine Corps...
drumcorpssnare:usmc:
Echo_Four_Bravo
01-02-07, 04:16 PM
Achped, I have shot my entire life. I have a picture of me with a rifle in my hands when I was 4. Those of us that have shot forever have a couple of advantages, and a few problems. I have bad habits that I could not get rid of. There are things a PMI could have taught me if I wasn't already an established shooter that would have helped.
In boot camp I was the second high shooter in the company, my series, my platoon, and my rack. My rack mate beat me by 2 points, and he had never held a rifle before bootcamp. So, you can see both worlds with the two of us.
If someone has been shooting their entire life, there is no reason to stop. But if you haven't been, just before going to bootcamp isn't the time to start. Let the people that know what they're doing teach you. You'll be better off for it.
STA0311
01-02-07, 04:43 PM
I had never shot a rifle before I entered the Corps, and I made it into a Scout/Sniper Platoon. Not saying that being a Sniper is all about shooting, because trust me it is not. BUT you have to be an expert. The PMI's are very good at their job as previously stated. You will learn in Boot Camp that the PMI's are not there to yell at you, they are more relaxed with you and do all they can to get you shooting at your best ability. It is your job however to pay attention and apply all the fundamentals that are taught to you.
Sgt Leprechaun
01-03-07, 09:06 AM
I, also had been shooting all my life when I went to Recruit Training, and considered myself a damn good shot....came away with a pizza box!
I've shot expert ever since, but it was dang embarrassing. There is nothing wrong with continuing to shoot if you've already BEEN shooting, but don't be a damn hard head like I was...LISTEN to the PMI's!!!
thezero
01-03-07, 01:07 PM
OK, I have seen alot of what gun is good or should I practice with, The Corps will teach you how to shoot, if you teach yourself you'll develop bad habits. I was taught how to shoot by my father (GYSGT USMC), around the age of 7 or 8 started with BB guns and .22's now I shoot his Remington .270 Model 700 and Mossberg 12 gauge, and I am going to start using my grand fathers .32 winchester. I am also a hunter, I have shot 4 deer in my hunting career and 1 moose. I'm just wondering besides listen to everything he says and use,if there are anything else that would help, such as advice and tips from other than my family. Thanks
Camper51
01-03-07, 01:56 PM
The worst thing to do is practice with anything prior to going to bootcamp. It has been said over and over and over and over again LET THE PMI's TEACH YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW!!!!!!!!! If you have bad habits now there is NOTHING you can do without PROPER instruction to break them.
Just because daddy was a gunny doesn't mean a lot. He may still teach bad habits, unless he was a PMI in the Corps.
The absolute best thing you can do about shooting is NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING!!!!!
If you have been shooting since you were knee high to a grasshopper, like me, it doesn't do you any good to try and do anything new. I shot Marksman in boot camp with the M-14, however when the M-16 was introduced I shot Expert every time. Why? Because I finally started to listen to the PMI's and actually do what they taught me, it only took me 4 years to get things through my thick skull.
You think that you know it all, or can learn it all because you are young and full of it. Well I don't believe that I have seen one single Marine in this post suggest that you can do better on your own than with a PMI's help. I wonder why the h*ll that is???
USMCVet1992
01-05-07, 12:15 PM
The best advice you have been given is dont try to "practice". You dont know what to practice. Just leave well enough alone and allow the PMI's to do their magic. You will be amazed at what kind of shooter they can mold you into. Listen to the Marines in here, they have BTDT and speak from experience.
thezero
01-05-07, 01:02 PM
The best advice you have been given is dont try to "practice". You dont know what to practice. Just leave well enough alone and allow the PMI's to do their magic. You will be amazed at what kind of shooter they can mold you into. Listen to the Marines in here, they have BTDT and speak from experience.
Sir yes Sir, but there is a small problem in "not praacticing" because I am a hunter (deer, moose, squirrel, I might try duck and turkey this year), instead how about What are some "bad habits" that people tend to develop by just practicing on a range? I hope this question will gain some positive feed-back. Thanks in advance and for all the advice so far.
Camper51
01-05-07, 01:49 PM
Sir yes Sir, but there is a small problem in "not praacticing" because I am a hunter (deer, moose, squirrel, I might try duck and turkey this year), instead how about What are some "bad habits" that people tend to develop by just practicing on a range? I hope this question will gain some positive feed-back. Thanks in advance and for all the advice so far.
If you are a hunter then just do what you do and NOTHING more.
Bad habits can be anything from bad breathing/relaxation tecniques to poor posture, and damn near anything in between. It CAN NOT be explained in here, that is why you are told to let the PMI's do their job.
Whining, crying and begging us to tell you won't do any good because we aren't there to properly do the job, and we aren't PMI's for the most part. Trying to dodge the question and pull an end run isn't gonna work either. We weren't born yesterday, although the way some of you act I wonder about you.
There is NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING that anyone can do to help you prior to your going to bootcamp. Just don't sweat it, you will do fine...
PS: No one told you to not hunt or to do anything that you don't normally do. If you already shoot and hunt then continue doing it. If you already go to the range every week then continue to do it. IE: don't change what you do NOW as part of your regular activities...
drumcorpssnare
01-05-07, 01:50 PM
thezero- alright, listen up! Don't try to confuse an issue that is already very clear! The advice given is, "WAIT UNTIL YOU ARE ON THE RANGE, AND LET THE PMI's TEACH YOU PROPER MARINE CORPS MARKSMANSHIP!"
Those of us sharing this advice, have been there and done that. We know how to shoot. But we aren't PMI's, and we aren't gonna get in their business. Just wait. Be patient. Listen carefully. Focus. Apply yourself.
Work hard. Do these things, and you'll be amazed at how proficient you will become with a rifle.
Do you understand me?
drumcorpssnare:usmc:
thezero
01-05-07, 03:27 PM
Thank you all, Camper51 I will not do anything different than what I am doing now. I will keep to my regular activities as you suggested since I hunt. drumcorpsesnare sir if I wasn't already a hunter I would take the advice of don't do anything until Boot Camp, and "Just wait. Be patient. Listen carefully. Focus. Apply yourself.
Work hard" I WILL do thank you all for sharing tips even thou it is to late for me to wait for the PMI's to teach me. Again thank you all.
Matt
SkilletsUSMC
01-06-07, 12:03 AM
Heres my boomstick....
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i172/schkoot/Mr.jpg
jinelson
01-06-07, 12:19 AM
Thats a whisk broom these are broom sticks!
Jim
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/jinelson/ZachsToys.jpg
Heres my boomstick....
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i172/schkoot/Mr.jpg
Is that the M16A4?
And I've heard you use the M16A4 at SOI these days, but do they keep the laser dot scope on the top during that training?
The best preparation I could recommend would be to start stretching and specifically, sitting with legs crossed “Indian style” ( not a vary politically correct description but effective). Start stretching those muscles, tendons in your groin area. This will be beneficial when shooting from the sitting position.
Long before you ever step foot on the range you will spend weeks sitting in this position to get you in shape for it but if you start now you will be more prepared then most.
Semper Fi
If I remember correctly the Marine Corps replaced the sitting position with the kneeling at the 200 and the rapid at the 300 is also shot from the kneeling. I'm willing to bet that recruits still spend many hours sitting cross legged on the quarterdeck for periods of instruction, so getting used to sitting like that is good advice for sure.
The AR-15 comes apart and goes back together the same way as an M-16, except for the rear take down pin is a screw instead of a slide.
SkilletsUSMC
01-06-07, 12:39 AM
Thats a whisk broom these are broom sticks!
Jim
"BOOM"stick;)
SkilletsUSMC
01-06-07, 12:42 AM
Is that the M16A4?
And I've heard you use the M16A4 at SOI these days, but do they keep the laser dot scope on the top during that training?
No that is one of my personal rifles:D , and it is a 95% copy of my M16 from Iraq (minus the Knights Armor quad rails, and the select-fire switch)
You use the A4 and ACOG at SOI now I think...
SkilletsUSMC
01-06-07, 12:44 AM
If I remember correctly the Marine Corps replaced the sitting position with the kneeling at the 200 and the rapid at the 300 is also shot from the kneeling. I'm willing to bet that recruits still spend many hours sitting cross legged on the quarterdeck for periods of instruction, so getting used to sitting like that is good advice for sure.
The AR-15 comes apart and goes back together the same way as an M-16, except for the rear take down pin is a screw instead of a slide.
My AR upper and lower can bolt right on to an M16 upper or lower... they are MIL-SPEC exept for the "burst"
So the picture of that rifle is an ar15 or an M16? You lost me.. haha
Echo_Four_Bravo
01-06-07, 12:48 AM
Love it other than the front handle. i don't like them, can't shoot with them. Other than that, beautiful!
I guess I've never seen an A-4. Can you describe some of the differences between an A-4 and an A-1?
SkilletsUSMC
01-06-07, 01:03 AM
I guess I've never seen an A-4. Can you describe some of the differences between an A-4 and an A-1?
Sure;)
Internally they are pretty much the same, though the breach has different feed ramps, and from A2 and up there is a brass deflector. The barrel twist is now 1/7 gov profile for heavier (62grain) ammo as apposed to the old 1/9. The carry handle is replaced by a flat top reciever, though they do have the detachable iron sights. The handguards are picatanny quad rails that can mount lots of high speed do-dads, or can be pulled off quickly to accept the M203 grenade launcher. the scope is now Standard, and i a trijicon ACOG. the best scope in the world. It is titium powered, and works at night with no batteries. It is a 4x scope, but works Really good up close. It is tough and will probably outlast the rifle if blown up.
And the pic is a bushmaster AR-15...
Amazing. Now I have a million questions. I carried a A-1 in boot camp then an A-2 in ITS then an A-1 in the fleet then an M-14 in barracks duty. I can still remember as a private having to give a class to a bunch of salty old Marines on the maintenance and characteristics of the M-249 because none of them had ever even heard of one before. Things change or I'm getting old.
I guess the one burning question is: Do they let you shoot across the firing range with a scope?
SkilletsUSMC
01-06-07, 01:27 AM
Amazing. Now I have a million questions. I carried a A-1 in boot camp then an A-2 in ITS then an A-1 in the fleet then an M-14 in barracks duty. I can still remember as a private having to give a class to a bunch of salty old Marines on the maintenance and characteristics of the M-249 because none of them had ever even heard of one before. Things change or I'm getting old.
I guess the one burning question is: Do they let you shoot across the firing range with a scope?
Its rack time for me, but the quick awnser is not on the qual ranges, but yes on tactical type ranges
Ask away and Ill awnser in the morning
I chuckled at a recent post from a lad that asked if he could request a M-203. My first thought was those things are a pain in the arse to carry at the ready, really big pain in the arse to carry at sling arms and a bear to clean and you really didn't want to spend any time doing present arms with it. It took a team of mules with power tools to get that dang handguard off and just as tough to put it back on. Break it then explain it to the 1st Sgt. Not a good idea. It certainly can throw a grenade further than catfish Johnson and the shotgun rounds were real cool. Go to the M-203 range and there sat a couple cases of rounds and the gunny comes and said here's yours (1). Now let everyone else shoot it. Now hump it back to the barracks and clean it. Anyway I ramble.
The new weapon has a way to add or remove a 203 quickly?
SkilletsUSMC
01-06-07, 11:52 AM
I chuckled at a recent post from a lad that asked if he could request a M-203. My first thought was those things are a pain in the arse to carry at the ready, really big pain in the arse to carry at sling arms and a bear to clean and you really didn't want to spend any time doing present arms with it. It took a team of mules with power tools to get that dang handguard off and just as tough to put it back on. Break it then explain it to the 1st Sgt. Not a good idea. It certainly can throw a grenade further than catfish Johnson and the shotgun rounds were real cool. Go to the M-203 range and there sat a couple cases of rounds and the gunny comes and said here's yours (1). Now let everyone else shoot it. Now hump it back to the barracks and clean it. Anyway I ramble.
The new weapon has a way to add or remove a 203 quickly?
I can get the 203 off or on in about 30 seconds. Not "FAST" but not too bad. Im sure its the same as the 203 you remember, just that the handguards disasembe in a way to make it easy get at the mounts.
USMCVet1992
01-06-07, 03:09 PM
As previously stated by Camper, just keep doing what you are doing now, but do not think for an instant that what you are doing is going to apply on a Marine Corps range. I am a firearms instructor, but only in the civilian world, and would never TRY to give any poolee instruction on how to prepare for the PMI's world. That is what they do and they are the best on the planet at what they do. As far as it being "too late" for the PMI's to teach you, why is that? Do you already know everything or are you too stubborn to listen? I know guys that grew up hunting, that got pizza boxes out of recruit training because of the too late mindset, get over that s**t. It is only too late if you don't apply yourself.
Echo_Four_Bravo
01-06-07, 04:53 PM
Glad to see optics still aren't used on the qualification range, but I am sure it is just a matter of time.
I know I shoot better with an aimpoint red dot, but it just feels like I'm cheating.
buzliteyear
01-06-07, 07:45 PM
Like everyone else stated, wait till you get to boot camp, they will teach you everything you need to know. When I tell knuckle here we used to shoot Division matches with m 16a2's out to 600 hundred yards with iron sights, these rookies say no way! Atleast till we go out to the local range and I am busting targets at 300 yards, and they struggle to get on paper with there fancy hunting rifles! Best combat rifle m 1 garand!! hands down! secound best rifle m14, can not be beat, then the French FMAS isn't bad, M16 isn't bad, but I would go to 6.5 or 6.8 mm cal. But that is just my opinion.
Barrette
01-06-07, 10:02 PM
The best practice rifle in the world cheap to shoot great to learn Ruger 10/22 if you want to spend extra money buy the Bushmaster AR that shoots the 22 caliber bullit....
Soon2BeVIP
01-07-07, 10:07 AM
Ya that whole not ever holding a gun is probably a good idea, but it was pretty embaressing at mini boot camp when they let us hold 4 different guns. We just went through each line and could hold them and every person was aiming at stuff and I was just like "uhhh" and held one for a couple seconds and pretended to aim. I think I only held one gun.
I chuckled at a recent post from a lad that asked if he could request a M-203. My first thought was those things are a pain in the arse to carry at the ready, really big pain in the arse to carry at sling arms and a bear to clean and you really didn't want to spend any time doing present arms with it. It took a team of mules with power tools to get that dang handguard off and just as tough to put it back on. Break it then explain it to the 1st Sgt. Not a good idea. It certainly can throw a grenade further than catfish Johnson and the shotgun rounds were real cool. Go to the M-203 range and there sat a couple cases of rounds and the gunny comes and said here's yours (1). Now let everyone else shoot it. Now hump it back to the barracks and clean it. Anyway I ramble.
The new weapon has a way to add or remove a 203 quickly?
That makes me feel so much better! I've never been able to get the handguards off my DPMS AR. I always thought I was just too puss to do it. Hopefully I'll learn the correct way to remove it in the next few weeks at PI.
SkilletsUSMC
01-07-07, 11:08 PM
That makes me feel so much better! I've never been able to get the handguards off my DPMS AR. I always thought I was just too puss to do it. Hopefully I'll learn the correct way to remove it in the next few weeks at PI.
The reason the handguards come off so easy in boot camp is because the slip ring(and everything else on the rifle) are worn to death. Im assuming your AR15 is of the M4gery flavor? The 20" handguards are nothing like the M4 style ones. BTW they dont use M16A4s in bootcamp.
The reason the handguards come off so easy in boot camp is because the slip ring(and everything else on the rifle) are worn to death. Im assuming your AR15 is of the M4gery flavor? The 20" handguards are nothing like the M4 style ones. BTW they dont use M16A4s in bootcamp.
I've never heard it called that before, but yes sir, M4gery sounds about right.
Are the 20"s easier to deal with? I'm planning to get one or two in A2 platform after boot camp. (one to keep Mil Spec and one to get MacGeyver with)
SkilletsUSMC
01-07-07, 11:17 PM
Ya that whole not ever holding a gun is probably a good idea, but it was pretty embaressing at mini boot camp when they let us hold 4 different guns. We just went through each line and could hold them and every person was aiming at stuff and I was just like "uhhh" and held one for a couple seconds and pretended to aim. I think I only held one gun.
I just cant agree with this line of reason. Talk all that **** you want about "learning bad habits", but it had no effect on scores for me and my fellow recreational shooters. Shooting on the range is alot different than real shooting anyway. I dont think Ill be making any loop slings and calculating windage in a firefight.
Plus I know more about rifles (especially foreign)and ballistics than about 99% of Marines. Owning AKs and then being able to completely disasemble them, reciver and all, was a nice bonus.
SkilletsUSMC
01-07-07, 11:20 PM
I've never heard it called that before, but yes sir, M4gery sounds about right.
Are the 20"s easier to deal with? I'm planning to get one or two in A2 platform after boot camp. (one to keep Mil Spec and one to get MacGeyver with)
Youre gonna chuckle on the inside when you see your rifle in bootcamp. Those are the most over maintained beatdown rifles you will ever see. The barrel and front sight post will be totally "silver" from constant scrubbing... You'll see.:D
thezero
01-08-07, 08:40 AM
As previously stated by Camper, just keep doing what you are doing now, but do not think for an instant that what you are doing is going to apply on a Marine Corps range. I am a firearms instructor, but only in the civilian world, and would never TRY to give any poolee instruction on how to prepare for the PMI's world. That is what they do and they are the best on the planet at what they do. As far as it being "too late" for the PMI's to teach you, why is that? Do you already know everything or are you too stubborn to listen? I know guys that grew up hunting, that got pizza boxes out of recruit training because of the too late mindset, get over that s**t. It is only too late if you don't apply yourself.
USMCVet1992 was that post directed at me? I just want to make sure. If it was I meant it was too late for me to start from scratch with the PMI's once my time comes around, and yes I am stubborn but I have been learning to listen to others and take advice when it is needed, hopefully by time I go to MCRD PI I will have gotten over my stubborness streak. And thank you Sir for your input I will keep it in mind for a very long time.
YLDNDN6
01-08-07, 02:02 PM
If you plan on reporting to Marine Corps boot camp with even a little stubbornness, your backside will become your Drill Instructors favorite new chew toy. NOTHING your Drill Instructors say to you is "advice." You will do well to remember that.
USMCVet1992
01-09-07, 05:15 PM
We did a training set in Texas with a SWAT team out there, and they went through the house and other range exercises like a storm using optics (red dots/eotechs/aimpoints). When the lead instructor told them to turn off and/or remove them, they killed more good than bad guys. Optics are a good tool, but without the basics, you are useless...
SkilletsUSMC
01-09-07, 06:19 PM
We did a training set in Texas with a SWAT team out there, and they went through the house and other range exercises like a storm using optics (red dots/eotechs/aimpoints). When the lead instructor told them to turn off and/or remove them, they killed more good than bad guys. Optics are a good tool, but without the basics, you are useless...
Good thing ACOGs dont need batteries, and cant be turned off. And they are stronger than iron sights, so reliability isnt an issue. Besides, the best way to aim in a house clearing environment is with eye-mussle-target. I have never actually looked through my ACOG while clearing rooms.
A few more cool things about the ACOG...
They have bracket lines for ajusting fire, and the aiming retical has a bullet drop compensator, that goes to 800m. I have yet to take a 800m shot... but ya never know. anyway that BDC doubles as a hasty range finder. there are cross bars that estimate the with of a mans shoulders at (x) range... works good even in a non combat mode.
USMCVet1992
01-10-07, 12:24 PM
The point being, the basics are necessary in the case that your optic or electronic fails or breaks and I have found that guys that only train with the assistance of such, do lousy without that assistance, anyway off the subject and for another post. But I agree Skillets, ACOGs are good tools if properly used and you are effective without it, Eotech's are awesome as well. And yes zero, that previous post was for you. Boot Camp is going to be a lousy time to learn to get over being stubborn, shouldn't take long though. A DI or SDI will give you a quick lesson in listening, wish I could see it...LOL