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SuNmAN
12-25-06, 10:55 AM
After I read Staff Sergeant Nelson's article about Somalia, it would seem more apparent than ever that we need to win the war of terrorism. It doesn't matter if you're democrat or republican, Muslim, Christian or Buddhist, white, black, brown or whatever. The common enemy of citizens of the free world and the oppressed world is AL QAEDA and Islamic extremism.

How can we defeat them? I maintain that winning hearts and minds is fundamental to winning this war. What do you guys think?

Oh yeah, and Merry Christmas !!

rb1651
12-25-06, 11:18 AM
SuNmaN, I agree the common enemy is Al Qaeda and Islamic extremism, but you will never win the "hearts and minds" of them because their only objective is world domination, by any means necessary to achieve their goals. You defeat these animals by eliminating them one 10 ring at a time.

Merry Chirstmas!!

Sgt Leprechaun
12-25-06, 11:24 AM
Islamism isn't like nazism or communism or any of the other 'ism's. It's a weird cult all on it's own. Those who drink from the cup of it will never, for the most part, be willing to co-exist with others. Unlike the hard core bible thumping Christians, who will try and convert you, but will basically leave you alone if you choose not to convert to 'their' church, Islamists seem to feel personally insulted and immediately inflamed, to the point of removing your head from your body, if you choose not to convert.

There is the difference. Nazism was defeated by overwhelming force. Communism was defeated by captialism; one could comfortably say in later years "I served with the 21st Panzer Division" while selling you a BMW. A former Communist could say "I was in the 321st Guards Tank Regiment in the GSFG in 1986" while giving you a tour of St. Petersburg.

The death cult of Islam is kinda like a gang; you get jumped in, and the only way out is jail, or death.

10thzodiac
12-25-06, 11:49 AM
It's quite simple to me, if we weren't over there meddling in someone else's affairs and minded our own God dam business, we would not have a bunch of p*ssed off "Fanatics' flying jets into American buildings.

I find it difficult that intelligent people cannot see that they are being duped !


Henrey Kissenger Quotes

“OIL IS MUCH TOO IMPORTANT A COMMODITY TO BE LEFT IN THE HANDS OF THE ARABS.”

“MILITARY MEN ARE JUST DUMB, STUPID, ANIMALS TO BE USED AS PAWNS IN FOREIGN POLICY.”

HENRY KISSINGER (ex American Secretary of State as a member of the Trilateral Commission & Bilderberger Group. Henry Kissinger appointed Paul Bremer to oversee the conquest and occupation of Iraq on 5/6/2003. Living. Quotes 1991 & 1990)

SF
10thz

Sgt Leprechaun
12-25-06, 11:56 AM
Hey, 10th, Merry Christmas! LOL

Hang on, tho, 'cause our 'footprint' in the middle east prior to 9/11 wasn't that great. IIRC, UBL wanted us out of Saudi because that is where Mecca is located, that was one of his *****es. Eventually, after Afganistan and now Iraq, we've left Saudi, at least, militarily I believe.

However, I will go along with Kissingers first quote LOL

yellowwing
12-25-06, 12:34 PM
I think the quickest way for them to achieve their goals is to overthrow Saudi Arabia. That is in fact the first demand of Osama Bin Laden, that we leave Saudi Arabia.

Like it or not, one of the main pillars of the WORLD economy is oil. Saudi Arabia earns about $150 billion a year on exports. Look what Al Qaeda has achieved in Afghanistan lately running on $7 billion in heroin money.

Maybe Osama would be satisfied with that. Or it could be his interim objective. He's been successful in splintering NATO. Splintering world opinion, and finally he's got us quibbling at each other now.

Objective one for us should be to truly reunite. Left and Right need to cut a deal with themselves.

Sgt Leprechaun
12-25-06, 12:41 PM
Fair enough....but how? Who gives what up to meet in the middle?

10thzodiac
12-25-06, 12:42 PM
Hey, 10th, Merry Christmas! LOL

Hang on, tho, 'cause our 'footprint' in the middle east prior to 9/11 wasn't that great. IIRC, UBL wanted us out of Saudi because that is where Mecca is located, that was one of his *****es. Eventually, after Afganistan and now Iraq, we've left Saudi, at least, militarily I believe.

However, I will go along with Kissingers first quote LOL

Merry Christmas Jason !

I personally believe prior to 9/11 we have/had an 'enormous footprint' there, e.g. we support/supported oppressive regimes like Israel, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afganistan and gave/giving financial aid to Egypt, Palestine and others. Not to mention our pre 9/11 attacks in Lebanon and Libya.

I 'm still entirely convinced the Industrial Military Complex has gotten us into this quagmire, just like Vietnam.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the Military Industrial Complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." ~ President Dwight D. Eisenhower



<!-- begin main presentation code -->Eisenhower warns us of the military industrial complex.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY)

SF
10thz

Sgt Leprechaun
12-25-06, 12:55 PM
I have to disagree that Isreal is "an oppressive regime". Same goes for Lebanon; we went there in the early 80's in an attempt to stop two warring sides from massacring one another and ended up gettin caught in the middle...of course, we did the same recently in Kosovo, fighting on the side of the muslims, basically, and look what that's gotten us. Nada.

FistFu68
12-25-06, 01:02 PM
:evilgrin:YO~SUNBOY,YOU FORGOT THE (YELLOW MAN);IN YOU'R RAINBOW OF HUMANITY!!!:D

yellowwing
12-25-06, 01:03 PM
Fair enough....but how? Who gives what up to meet in the middle?

I'm working on it! :banana:
http://www.ywg-web.com/images/michael-thinking.jpg

SkilletsUSMC
12-25-06, 01:07 PM
After I read Staff Sergeant Nelson's article about Somalia, it would seem more apparent than ever that we need to win the war of terrorism. It doesn't matter if you're democrat or republican, Muslim, Christian or Buddhist, white, black, brown or whatever. The common enemy of citizens of the free world and the oppressed world is AL QAEDA and Islamic extremism.

How can we defeat them? I maintain that winning hearts and minds is fundamental to winning this war. What do you guys think?

Oh yeah, and Merry Christmas !!

Good Post Sunman.

#1: We have got to get our **** together back home. The biggest problem is american self loathing. People believe that america is bad, and have no back bone anymore. We need to have the guts to back up our threats. Another big part of getting our **** squared away would be to not act like such an economic and political juggernaut all the time. In that way we do definately need to be holding the moral high ground.

#2: We need to elect a LEADER. Not a leftwing appeasement monkey, and definatley NOBODY with any ties to big oil. no matter how true GWB is in his heart, no one can trust him deep down.

#:3 Once we have our **** back together, we have to do small military ops into ANY country where Al qaeda is operating and destroy them. Not huge invasions like Iraq. MAKE the world know that we are serrious about fighting terroisim. Afgansitan would be in so much better shape had there never been an Iraqi war. Second and most importantly, the US and the world needs to take a no BS approach to acts of terroism. Make Islamics accountable for their actions. List off some but not all potential targets that would be struck within 48 hours of any terrorist attack. Think M.A.D. for the 21st century.

SuNmAN
12-25-06, 01:23 PM
SuNmaN, I agree the common enemy is Al Qaeda and Islamic extremism, but you will never win the "hearts and minds" of them because their only objective is world domination, by any means necessary to achieve their goals. You defeat these animals by eliminating them one 10 ring at a time.

Merry Chirstmas!!


I don't want the hearts and minds of Al Qaeda and Islamic extremists. I want the hearts and minds of the common folk who just want a peaceful life.

Sgt Leprechaun
12-25-06, 01:28 PM
Realistically, the only way we can do that is by longevity and staying power. Right now, if you were a 'little guy' on the street (ANY street in any country), would you be willing to put your trust in Uncle Sam for the long term?

If so, why? Over the past 20 years, if we've proven one thing, it's the fact that 'we' have just about zero staying power. Blame both sides, the risk averse Republicans, and the "Wave the white flag" Democrats. Had we gone in with massive, overwhelming, crushing force in the days after Blackhawk Down, it would be a different world today.

"Train like you fight" means what it says, and so very much more.

SuNmAN
12-25-06, 01:29 PM
It's quite simple to me, if we weren't over there meddling in someone else's affairs and minded our own God dam business, we would not have a bunch of p*ssed off "Fanatics' flying jets into American buildings.

I find it difficult that intelligent people cannot see that they are being duped !


Henrey Kissenger Quotes

“OIL IS MUCH TOO IMPORTANT A COMMODITY TO BE LEFT IN THE HANDS OF THE ARABS.”

“MILITARY MEN ARE JUST DUMB, STUPID, ANIMALS TO BE USED AS PAWNS IN FOREIGN POLICY.”

HENRY KISSINGER (ex American Secretary of State as a member of the Trilateral Commission & Bilderberger Group. Henry Kissinger appointed Paul Bremer to oversee the conquest and occupation of Iraq on 5/6/2003. Living. Quotes 1991 & 1990)

SF
10thz

I disagreed wholeheartedly.

As a HUMAN BEING I would feel very ashamed if we just insulated ourselves from the rest of the world and did not try to help others who are struggling.

A large portion of the world lives on less than $1 a day

A large portion of the world lives with very few rights and freedoms and face oppression daily

As the world's sole superpower and by far the world's most military powerful and wealthiest state, we have a duty to lend a helping hand to those who need it.

Yes, Iraq may have been more than we can chew. We cannot do everything, but we must try.

10thZodiac, I feel like a lot of Marines here are overly conservative, but based on my personal opinion, you are overly liberal. Globalization is occurring whether we like it or not. We cannot live in insulation and isolationism. It does not work like that.

I will close by leaving you with two quotes:

"With great power comes great responsibility"
"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

SuNmAN
12-25-06, 01:37 PM
Good Post Sunman.

#1: We have got to get our **** together back home. The biggest problem is american self loathing. People believe that america is bad, and have no back bone anymore. We need to have the guts to back up our threats. Another big part of getting our **** squared away would be to not act like such an economic and political juggernaut all the time. In that way we do definately need to be holding the moral high ground.

#2: We need to elect a LEADER. Not a leftwing appeasement monkey, and definatley NOBODY with any ties to big oil. no matter how true GWB is in his heart, no one can trust him deep down.

#:3 Once we have our **** back together, we have to do small military ops into ANY country where Al qaeda is operating and destroy them. Not huge invasions like Iraq. MAKE the world know that we are serrious about fighting terroisim. Afgansitan would be in so much better shape had there never been an Iraqi war. Second and most importantly, the US and the world needs to take a no BS approach to acts of terroism. Make Islamics accountable for their actions. List off some but not all potential targets that would be struck within 48 hours of any terrorist attack. Think M.A.D. for the 21st century.


AMEN !!!!

SkilletsUSMC
12-25-06, 01:38 PM
10thZodiac, I feel like a lot of Marines here are overly conservative, but based on my personal opinion, you are overly liberal. Globalization is occurring whether we like it or not. We cannot live in insulation and isolationism. It does not work like that.





wow....:thumbup:

jinelson
12-25-06, 01:50 PM
SunMan if your mother was diagosed with cancer and the doctors said her only chance for survival was a very aggressive chemotherapy, would you not allow it. Yes the chemo will kill all the cancerous cells but it will also kill the good healthy cells and make her even sicker for a short period. I view muslims in the same light our survival far out weighs a barbaric elimination of their numbers. I know that you dont share my views but simply put I dont think there is any other way, it's either them or us. Muslims are no different than Nazi's other than they are in a neat religous package, their goal of world domination is the same.

Jim

rb1651
12-25-06, 01:52 PM
I don't want the hearts and minds of Al Qaeda and Islamic extremists. I want the hearts and minds of the common folk who just want a peaceful life.

And therein lies the problem. If you are one of the "common folk" in an Islamic state and try to adhere to what we consider tolerance, the Islamic terrorist will kill you. Look what is happening in Afganistan. If you are a teacher who does not teach the fanatical version of Islam, then you are going to be the target of possible murder. The only way we can try to allow the "common folk" have any way of free expression is to eliminate the radicals so that the "common folk" are free to live as they choose.

In my opinion, since we have been put into the position of the leader of the fight against terrorism, we locate the threat and use whatever force is necessary to remove the threat. The h*** with trying to be PC, just take the gloves off of our Armed Forces, and allow them to deliver a decisive blow whenever the threat to peoples freedom is threatened. Then, and only then, will a people be truly free.

10thzodiac
12-25-06, 03:58 PM
I disagreed wholeheartedly.

As a HUMAN BEING I would feel very ashamed if we just insulated ourselves from the rest of the world and did not try to help others who are struggling.

A large portion of the world lives on less than $1 a day

A large portion of the world lives with very few rights and freedoms and face oppression daily

As the world's sole superpower and by far the world's most military powerful and wealthiest state, we have a duty to lend a helping hand to those who need it.

Yes, Iraq may have been more than we can chew. We cannot do everything, but we must try.

10thz: Sonny, sounds like to me, you missed your calling, sounds like you should of been a missionary in Africa instead !

My personal philosophy is, that we, as Americans can't save the world, we're having a hard enough time taking care of Americans, e.g. education, health, hunger, homelessness, poverty, etc.

SuNmAN: 10thZodiac I feel like a lot of Marines here are overly conservative, but based on my personal opinion, you are overly liberal. Globalization is occurring whether we like it or not. We cannot live in insulation and isolationism. It does not work like that.

10thz: Uh, Oh ! Time to get your *Amero's out !Talking about who is a liberal, you make me look like John Birch with your acquiescence to globalization undermining the sovereignty of the United States without a fight. It appears you've given into a North American Union without a fight !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H65f3q_Lm9U&eurl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H65f3q_Lm9U&eurl)=

*“Amero,” is the name of the new currency proposed by Robert Pastor, a vice chairman of the CFR task force that produced the report “Building a North American Union.” It will replace the U.S. dollar, the Canadian dollar and the Mexican peso.

SuNmAN: I will close by leaving you with two quotes:

"With great power comes great responsibility"

10thz: So ? Next time tell everybody something new, that we don't know !

SuNmAN: "All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

10thz: That's excellent copy Sonny, if your win the war ! That's the way history is written. If our past foes were victorious instead of us, they'd be writing history that we were evil, right ?

After wars are over, the average Joe, no matter who wins or not, will still be busting his ass in a factory somewhere. It's the leaders that are in deep trouble.

Sonny I hope you're getting tired of using me as your easy target for a whipping boy. I have a lot of year end math to do for my taxes. I don't want to give those stupid sons-of-b*tches any more of my money than I have too, with my luck, they'll probably give mine to Israel http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/34.gif instead of taking proper care of our toops and their families (this side) !

SF
10thz

SuNmAN
12-25-06, 06:06 PM
Sonny I hope you're getting tired of using me as your easy target for a whipping boy. I have a lot of year end math to do for my taxes. I don't want to give those stupid sons-of-b*tches any more of my money than I have too, with my luck, they'll probably give mine to Israel http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/34.gif instead of taking proper care of our toops and their families (this side) !

SF
10thz


whipping boy?? what are you talking about? I simply don't agree with everything you have to say. Sometimes I do and I'll say so, other times I won't and I'll voice my opinion.

I think by now you have realized that I'm someone that sees both sides of things.

SuNmAN
12-25-06, 06:13 PM
You're comparing INNOCENT HUMAN LIVES with cells?? <br />
<br />
come on now <br />
<br />
here's a better analogy for you <br />
<br />
Theres a 5 serial killers running around in Crimesville, a town of 500. Do you charge in guns...

SuNmAN
12-25-06, 06:15 PM
And therein lies the problem. If you are one of the "common folk" in an Islamic state and try to adhere to what we consider tolerance, the Islamic terrorist will kill you. Look what is happening in Afganistan. If you are a teacher who does not teach the fanatical version of Islam, then you are going to be the target of possible murder. The only way we can try to allow the "common folk" have any way of free expression is to eliminate the radicals so that the "common folk" are free to live as they choose.

In my opinion, since we have been put into the position of the leader of the fight against terrorism, we locate the threat and use whatever force is necessary to remove the threat. The h*** with trying to be PC, just take the gloves off of our Armed Forces, and allow them to deliver a decisive blow whenever the threat to peoples freedom is threatened. Then, and only then, will a people be truly free.

Of course we must try to defeat the radicals. But you don't think the glove is off yet? You don't think we're trying?

I don't know what you're suggesting here because everything you've said above it seems like we're doing already.

If you're one of those who suggest we just vaporize the Arab world with thermonuclear war, then I'm definitely done talking because that is absurd.

jinelson
12-25-06, 06:39 PM
by SuNmAN - You're comparing INNOCENT HUMAN LIVES with cells??


You bet I am and I cannot imagine a muslim as an innocent human. If there were any good ones that were not intent on our death and world domination I think we would hear from them and see actions like them joining our armed forces. Their total lack of action speaks volumns about them. You seem to forget that they have been attacking us since 1984 and usually attack our innocent human civilian populations. They are the enemy and deserve absolutely no more mercy than what they afforded the civilian workers in the twin towers and aircraft they hijacked.

OLE SARG
12-25-06, 06:42 PM
Saying 10th is overly liberal is an understatement!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

10thzodiac
12-25-06, 07:02 PM
Saying 10th is overly liberal is an understatement!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

Someone has to be for the common man, not the capitalist that exploit him and having everybody whistling "Dixie" its patriotic to die for bankers (oil).

Some people didn't fall off the turnip truck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SF
10thz http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/22.gif

SuNmAN
12-25-06, 08:16 PM
You bet I am and I cannot imagine a muslim as an innocent human. If there were any good ones that were not intent on our death and world domination I think we would hear from them and see actions like them joining our armed forces. Their total lack of action speaks volumns about them. You seem to forget that they have been attacking us since 1984 and usually attack our innocent human civilian populations. They are the enemy and deserve absolutely no more mercy than what they afforded the civilian workers in the twin towers and aircraft they hijacked.


Not a chance !!!

If all 1.7 billion Muslims were intent on our death, the United States would have long ceased to exist !!!!!

rb1651
12-25-06, 10:44 PM
Of course we must try to defeat the radicals. But you don't think the glove is off yet? You don't think we're trying?

I don't know what you're suggesting here because everything you've said above it seems like we're doing already.

If you're one of those who suggest we just vaporize the Arab world with thermonuclear war, then I'm definitely done talking because that is absurd.

H*** no, the gloves aren't off. Our troops are seeing people everyday on the streets of Iraq with weapons, but are not allowed to remove the threat because of the PC BS. I'm sorry, but the PC BS does nothing but allow these fanatics to feel superior to us because they do not have the save restrictions that they are applying to our troops. If the gloves were off they would have two choices; drop the weapon or die!!! 'Nough said..

PerXes
12-25-06, 10:59 PM
I thought of this while working on my Terrorism Awareness MCI:

It states in the MCI that the objective of terrorists is attention to their cause. So, I figured, what if we stopped reporting terrorist attacks in the news? We would still help those victims, but simply not report it. The news would travel by word of mouth, anyway. Of course, this isn't really all that feasible, but I think, in an ideal world where everyone in the world media would band together for this idea, that it could work, or at least have an effect.

jinelson
12-25-06, 11:03 PM
If the gloves were off there would be no such thing as Rules Of Engagement (ROE)!

Jim

yellowwing
12-25-06, 11:06 PM
I'm sorry, but the PC BS does nothing but allow these fanatics to feel superior to us because they do not have the save restrictions that they are applying to our troops.
That don't sound right. Its our Commander in Chief and our allies that determine the rules of engagement.

SuNmAN
12-26-06, 12:35 AM
H*** no, the gloves aren't off. Our troops are seeing people everyday on the streets of Iraq with weapons, but are not allowed to remove the threat because of the PC BS. I'm sorry, but the PC BS does nothing but allow these fanatics to feel superior to us because they do not have the save restrictions that they are applying to our troops. If the gloves were off they would have two choices; drop the weapon or die!!! 'Nough said..


Sorry but this has ZERO to do with "political correctedless"

its called Rules of Engagement. Its something called the Geneva Conventions that we adhere to. Its called holding a moral high ground because we are better than the terrorists that we fight. We cannot stoop to their level.

SuNmAN
12-26-06, 12:37 AM
I thought of this while working on my Terrorism Awareness MCI:

It states in the MCI that the objective of terrorists is attention to their cause. So, I figured, what if we stopped reporting terrorist attacks in the news? We would still help those victims, but simply not report it. The news would travel by word of mouth, anyway. Of course, this isn't really all that feasible, but I think, in an ideal world where everyone in the world media would band together for this idea, that it could work, or at least have an effect.


Perxes. It does not work that way. We have a free media and our people deserve free access to information.

Our Constitution guarantees freedom of the press, and thus the media is free to reort whatever they wish.

On the other hand, the media has a resonsibility to be as truthful and objective and neutral as possible.

SuNmAN
12-26-06, 12:45 AM
If the gloves were off there would be no such thing as Rules Of Engagement (ROE)!

Jim

Can you be a human being one time instead of some killing machine 24/7??

So you're saying if one guy was hiding in a crowd of a hundred women and children firing his AK-47 at you, you would spray rounds into the crowd of women and children to get this one guy??

Wait, that was a rhetorical question, I know your answer is YES already.

Since I know you care ZERO about Arab civilians, know that excessively loose or lack of ROE although can be tactically more effective, will often negate the political objectives of such a use of force.

Yep. So the media starts reporting more civilian dead as a result of US forces not abiding by any ROE.

So what happens? Oh lets see...heads will start rolling...the world will be disgusted, the people will be disgusted. The military will be spitted upon...a bunch of unthinkable scenarios.

This war needs to be won politically. Winning battles will NOT necessarily win this war.

PerXes
12-26-06, 02:18 AM
Perxes. It does not work that way. We have a free media and our people deserve free access to information.

Our Constitution guarantees freedom of the press, and thus the media is free to reort whatever they wish.

On the other hand, the media has a resonsibility to be as truthful and objective and neutral as possible.

I don't mean that the press should be controlled, I just think they should not report it on their own free will.

FistFu68
12-26-06, 06:41 AM
:evilgrin:YOU WHIP HIS AZZ BY USING TERROR AGAINST TERROR,THE GENEVA CONVENTION;IS A BAD JOKE AND THE JOKE IS ON US!MR.NICE GUY IN A WAR,IS WEAKNESS! ASK YOU'R FELLOW ~ MAN FROM SOUTH EAST ASIA,ABOUT THE PHOENIX PROGRAM? :iwo:

Sgt Leprechaun
12-26-06, 07:33 AM
Sigh.

First. Media access in the combat zone should be tightly controlled, and censored. Yes, censored. It worked in WWII and WWI, it would work again. IF "we" as a nation were serious about this, it's one of the first steps we'd take. That goes for Gitmo as well as any other theatre of operations in this war.

Second, ROE has absolutely nothing to do with the Geneva Convention. Nada. They are apples and oranges.

Third, yes, there are something like 1.7 billion mooslums out there, and not all of em want to kill us. Yes, only a small minority are the so called 'radicals'. However, think of this analogy when you talk about the 'goodness' of those 1.7 billion....The German state in 1944 was tightly controlled, but not all military persons or civilians were Nazis, or even Nazi party members. Hitlers military attempted to kill him on 20 July 1944, and failed. They had no 20 million in reward money as an offer, nor did the allies even know about the plot; they did it because they believed Hitler was dragging the German nation farther and farther into the abyss, and he needed to be stopped. They paid for this with their lives.

Some of the highest ranking Generals in the Werhmacht, including Rommel, also paid with their lives.

Simply put, the German state was tightly controlled, and yet these men damn near succeeded. WHAT IS STOPPING THE 1.7 BILLION MOOSLUMS FROM DOING THE SAME TO BIN LADEN????

Answer me that question, and you'll have the answer as to why, for the most part, most Americans, and almost everyone whose actually had 'boots on the ground', doesn't trust a Mooslum as far as I can kick a cactus barefoot.

SuNmAN
12-26-06, 10:14 AM
Bin Laden's bodyguards?

OLE SARG
12-26-06, 10:17 AM
The media makes up it's own news, that is the BIG problem in the U. S. today. It would be nice for a change if the media would report real "NEWS" and not let the true facts and what really happened get in the way of a good story.
Some newspaper editors need to be prosecuted, i.e., dumbass editor of the new york times!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

SuNmAN
12-26-06, 10:27 AM
wait what?

"not let true facts and what really happened get in the way of a good story"???

sorry but I'd like the media to report to me as truthfully as possible what I need to know.

Sgt Leprechaun
12-26-06, 10:38 AM
Ah, wouldn't we all. Doesn't happen.

BTW, did you get my point? UBL's bodyguards haven't taken him out for the cool 25 million....nor has anyone else, or the rest of those 1.7 billion 'peaceful' mooslums.

The Stauffenberg plot was for "the greater good"; granted, the "greater good" was primarily the Prussians who thought Hitler was screwing up the war effort, and who wanted a negotiated peace, but nonetheless, brave men and women stepped foward.

Wouldnt' you think that there would be some sorta 'bravery' exhibited by the mooslums, since UBL has soooo (allegedly) distorted 'their' faith?

But, we don't see that, do we?

SuNmAN
12-26-06, 11:55 AM
Ah, wouldn't we all. Doesn't happen.

BTW, did you get my point? UBL's bodyguards haven't taken him out for the cool 25 million....nor has anyone else, or the rest of those 1.7 billion 'peaceful' mooslums.

The Stauffenberg plot was for "the greater good"; granted, the "greater good" was primarily the Prussians who thought Hitler was screwing up the war effort, and who wanted a negotiated peace, but nonetheless, brave men and women stepped foward.

Wouldnt' you think that there would be some sorta 'bravery' exhibited by the mooslums, since UBL has soooo (allegedly) distorted 'their' faith?

But, we don't see that, do we?


true that...got good point

SkilletsUSMC
12-26-06, 12:13 PM
Wow!

This post has really grown some legs since last night. Im going to address some different post all in one neat package so forgive me if I forget the original poster.

SSGT Jinelson...
"If there were any good ones that were not intent on our death and world domination I think we would hear from them and see actions like them joining our armed forces."

I know what you mean in spirit, but I have a small bone to pick. They may not be joining OUR armed forces, but they are going to iraq to act as interpreters. We had a FABULOUS terp, and he was a Muslim American trying to help out. He was 100% not MUJ I can tell you for sure.

There were alot of pretty cool Iraqi soldiers too. I have said it before that one on one, all people are usually pretty cool. The sum of the parts is a hornets nest. the bigger the group the more the hive mind kicks in. Ignorance is the enemy, and right now islam is the ignorance.

SuNmAN...
Not a chance !!!

If all 1.7 billion Muslims were intent on our death, the United States would have long ceased to exist !!!!!

Dude... America can beat anybody especially if they are threatening us directly... Thats sad that you think that way... BTW, Eagle57 or what ever your name was, this is what I am talking about.


its called Rules of Engagement. Its something called the Geneva Conventions that we adhere to. Its called holding a moral high ground because we are better than the terrorists that we fight. We cannot stoop to their level.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

That is the official story, but nowdays most ROEs exist to cover highers ass... Some are comon sense, but most are not for the good of the war, but to avoid scandals and bad press. SuNmAN, PM me if you want to hear a ROE story that haunts me everyday.

SuNmAN
12-26-06, 06:39 PM
SuNmAN...

Dude... America can beat anybody especially if they are threatening us directly... Thats sad that you think that way... BTW, Eagle57 or what ever your name was, this is what I am talking about.




America can defeat any enemy in a conventional engagement. However, if as SSgt Nelson suggested that ALL Muslims were the enemy and ALL MUSLIMS were to wage unconventional warfare on us...planting bombs in our malls, driving vehicles into the Sears Towers and just wrecking havoc in general, we would have no effective defense against that.

It simply is not true. Only a very small number of Muslims are radicals. The others just want to live their life and not meddle in this BS.

As for Muslims in the Armed Forces, I assure you we have a good number. In fact a week ago a Poolee who shall go unnamed on this forum messaged me thanking me for defending his faith (which I was not, I was defending his right to practice his faith) and that how much he loved America and looked forward to serving in the Marines.

Most American Muslims are good people.

greensideout
12-26-06, 07:16 PM
America can defeat any enemy in a conventional engagement. However, if as SSgt Nelson suggested that ALL Muslims were the enemy and ALL MUSLIMS were to wage unconventional warfare on us...planting bombs in our malls, driving vehicles into the Sears Towers and just wrecking havoc in general, we would have no effective defense against that.

It simply is not true. Only a very small number of Muslims are radicals. The others just want to live their life and not meddle in this BS.

As for Muslims in the Armed Forces, I assure you we have a good number. In fact a week ago a Poolee who shall go unnamed on this forum messaged me thanking me for defending his faith (which I was not, I was defending his right to practice his faith) and that how much he loved America and looked forward to serving in the Marines.

Most American Muslims are good people.


As said before, where is the "good muslim" outcry to support America?

SkilletsUSMC
12-26-06, 07:24 PM
America can defeat any enemy in a conventional engagement. However, if as SSgt Nelson suggested that ALL Muslims were the enemy and ALL MUSLIMS were to wage unconventional warfare on us...planting bombs in our malls, driving vehicles into the Sears Towers and just wrecking havoc in general, we would have no effective defense against that.

It simply is not true. Only a very small number of Muslims are radicals. The others just want to live their life and not meddle in this BS.

As for Muslims in the Armed Forces, I assure you we have a good number. In fact a week ago a Poolee who shall go unnamed on this forum messaged me thanking me for defending his faith (which I was not, I was defending his right to practice his faith) and that how much he loved America and looked forward to serving in the Marines.

Most American Muslims are good people.

You have to understand that IF that were to happen, the people of america wouldnt stand by and allow it to go on. Call it unjust, but by then there would be extreme mesures taken to ensure our survival

10thzodiac
12-26-06, 08:20 PM
People are people.

I had a young 1st generation Christian Iraqi-American living across the street for a few years. He said he hated Muslims. He also said that his father was a former Army General for Saddam.

I met his father and liked him better than his boy. The father went back to Iraq working as an interpreter for America soon after the war started.

Paul, the son told me that when he visited his family in pre-war Iraq, that he didn't have a mustache and some locals took exception to him being clean shaved and brandished knives and started chasing him.

His smaller Anglo-American brother-in-law down the street use to kick has ass regularly.

Paul was a real character, can't say that I believed everything he said.

SuNmAN
12-26-06, 09:36 PM
You have to understand that IF that were to happen, the people of america wouldnt stand by and allow it to go on. Call it unjust, but by then there would be extreme mesures taken to ensure our survival


lol you think you can defend against 1.7 billion terrorists?

what if Muslims shaved their beards and dressed like a westerner? Some of them with lighter skin tones would look just like a white person of Italian descent or something. It would not be physically possible to defend everywhere against it.

SkilletsUSMC
12-26-06, 09:57 PM
lol you think you can defend against 1.7 billion terrorists?

what if Muslims shaved their beards and dressed like a westerner? Some of them with lighter skin tones would look just like a white person of Italian descent or something. It would not be physically possible to defend everywhere against it.

... I think if 1.7 billion muslims Tried to come the US someone would notice... It would never get that far. There is a second amenment for a reason. If there were constant terrorist attacks, marshal law would be declared.

I Garantee they wouldnt destroy the US. They may hit us with more terror, but the local citizenry would absolutley smash them in a war in our back yards.

But this is rediculous. Its like saying who would win in a fight between a Great white shark, and a saltwater croc. Its not going to happen...

SuNmAN
12-26-06, 11:11 PM
... I think if 1.7 billion muslims Tried to come the US someone would notice... It would never get that far. There is a second amenment for a reason. If there were constant terrorist attacks, marshal law would be declared.

I Garantee they wouldnt destroy the US. They may hit us with more terror, but the local citizenry would absolutley smash them in a war in our back yards.

But this is rediculous. Its like saying who would win in a fight between a Great white shark, and a saltwater croc. Its not going to happen...

I think you and I are straying from the point here

More than one person here has implied or outright said something along the lines of "ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD...ALL ARE TERRORISTS AND ALL OF THEM ARE THE ENEMY."

Well, I was only trying to outline that if that were the case...I don't think we would be chatting on this forum calmly right now. The world would reupt in chaos.

SkilletsUSMC
12-26-06, 11:19 PM
I think you and I are straying from the point here

More than one person here has implied or outright said something along the lines of "ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD...ALL ARE TERRORISTS AND ALL OF THEM ARE THE ENEMY."

Well, I was only trying to outline that if that were the case...I don't think we would be chatting on this forum calmly right now. The world would reupt in chaos.

Agreed 100%

There are alot of good muslims, but that doenst mean Islam is not serriously flawed.

greensideout
12-26-06, 11:28 PM
Agreed 100%

There are alot of good muslims, but that doenst mean Islam is not serriously flawed.


Hummm, are they the ones calling for peace with the US? I can't hear them, I try but not a shout can be heard?

10thzodiac
12-26-06, 11:43 PM
May I Quote You, Mr. President ?

The Theologian:

27-"Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion."
George W. Bush

28-"The Islam that we know is a faith devoted to the worship of one God, as revealed through The Holy Qur'an. It teaches the value and the importance of charity, mercy, and peace."
George W. Bush

41-"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
George W. Bush

50-“I don’t have the foggiest idea about what I think about international, foreign policy.”

George W. Bush

FistFu68
12-27-06, 07:06 AM
:evilgrin: THE LORD WORK'S IN MYSTERIOS WAY'S!THANK GOD FOR EARTH QUAKE'S AND TSUNAMI'S;OH AND A TRUMP CARD! THE 900 MILLION,HINDU'S;WHO HATE THE BASTARD'S MORE THAN (MOST) OF US DO!!! PLUS SONNY BOY, THEY GOT A HELL OF A SWIM;AHEAD OF THEM FROM YOU'R ANSESTOR'S BACK~YARD!!! PEACE~OUT~(LMFAO):D

OLE SARG
12-27-06, 10:09 AM
They, the sheetheads, don't worry about things like "Rules of Engagement".

It is the Muslims PERIOD I worry about because they want to do away with the "INFIDELS" and I is an INFIDEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Their cornhole or korans or what ever the **** you call it sure do preach THAT!!!!!!!!!!

There are also some good serial killers I am sure!!!

I agree with GSO, WHERE IS THE "GOOD MUSLIM" OUTCRY TO SUPPORT AMERICA?????????????????????????? You won't ****ing see it!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

SuNmAN
12-27-06, 11:52 AM
Agreed 100%

There are alot of good muslims, but that doenst mean Islam is not serriously flawed.

Agree on both counts

SuNmAN
12-27-06, 11:53 AM
:evilgrin: THE LORD WORK'S IN MYSTERIOS WAY'S!THANK GOD FOR EARTH QUAKE'S AND TSUNAMI'S;OH AND A TRUMP CARD! THE 900 MILLION,HINDU'S;WHO HATE THE BASTARD'S MORE THAN (MOST) OF US DO!!! PLUS SONNY BOY, THEY GOT A HELL OF A SWIM;AHEAD OF THEM FROM YOU'R ANSESTOR'S BACK~YARD!!! PEACE~OUT~(LMFAO):D


or they can come in a plane

drumcorpssnare
12-27-06, 12:31 PM
SuNmaN- Your whole line of thinking seems to be based on "what if..."
"What if terrorists shaved their beards..."

That's like saying, "Yeah, but what if Custer woulda had a dozen Apache attack helicopters. Crazy Horse woulda been laughin' out the other side of his face!"

The reality is...no one wants to exterminate the entire Muslim population of the world. Ain't gonna happen.
But anyone with a lick of sense understands that the small percentage of radical fundamentalists, who wish to die for Allah, should be allowed to do so.
America and the free world should spare no expense...leave no rock unturned...never cease...until all these suicidal nutcases are takin' a dirt-nap!

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

SuNmAN
12-27-06, 08:42 PM
SuNmaN- Your whole line of thinking seems to be based on "what if..."
"What if terrorists shaved their beards..."

That's like saying, "Yeah, but what if Custer woulda had a dozen Apache attack helicopters. Crazy Horse woulda been laughin' out the other side of his face!"

The reality is...no one wants to exterminate the entire Muslim population of the world. Ain't gonna happen.
But anyone with a lick of sense understands that the small percentage of radical fundamentalists, who wish to die for Allah, should be allowed to do so.
America and the free world should spare no expense...leave no rock unturned...never cease...until all these suicidal nutcases are takin' a dirt-nap!

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

thats a bad analogy

I love America to death and believe in her capabilities as much as any patriotic citizen

but too bad terrorists and Muslims don't have "I am Muslim Extremist and I want to kill you" written on their foreheads. Thats what makes it so hard.

SkilletsUSMC
12-27-06, 08:55 PM
but too bad terrorists and Muslims don't have "I am Muslim Extremist and I want to kill you" written on their foreheads. Thats what makes it so hard.

Sometimes they do...:D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38192000/jpg/_38192214_hamas150.jpg

http://writingcompany.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/insurgent_falluja_1.jpg

kato811
12-27-06, 09:12 PM
seems like a few people here need to get out an read up on the muslim faith a LOT more.im amazed about how little some people know about them .when they are connected to the inrternet an things are easy to research

SuNmAN
12-27-06, 11:02 PM
Sometimes they do...:D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38192000/jpg/_38192214_hamas150.jpg

http://writingcompany.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/insurgent_falluja_1.jpg


rofl if you see one of those douches walking down your otherwise peaceful suburban street, you are fully authorized to kick his ass

SkilletsUSMC
12-28-06, 05:01 AM
rofl if you see one of those douches walking down your otherwise peaceful suburban street, you are fully authorized to kick his ass

Thanks dude!!!:D :D :D

SuNmAN
12-28-06, 10:06 AM
Thanks dude!!!:D :D :D


lol I'll tackle him and hold him down, you can pull out his teeth one by one

if he claims he's hindu and not Muslim he better have a red dot on his head or something !!!

EZduzit
01-11-07, 03:29 PM
Whether you like it or not SuNmAN the Marine Corps itself is a conservative organization. IT cannot afford to be otherwise as it could not survive. Your overly liberal ideology at this time in your life has obviously been sparked by your attendance in college. This is where many college professors are known to have great influence to young and highly impressionable students such as yourself. The college campus is a common breeding ground for such activity and the dissimination of highly influencial propaganda. It is a place where educators and students alike coexist in a 'dream world' but do not for 1 second that it is the 'real world'. Unfortunately that is the nature of the beast.

Do not be swayed SuNmAN. Form your own opinions and not embrace those of others. Be aware of what transpires on the college campus and make your own judgement calls. It isn't necessary that you become a full-fledged ultra conservative; that is not what is asked of you. Just be the Marine you claim to be and and strive to meet your goals and ambitions in the Corps. If this sounds like a sermon.... well perhaps it is.

NamVet

EZduzit
01-11-07, 03:51 PM
Whether you like it or not SuNmAN the Marine Corps itself is a conservative organization. IT cannot afford to be otherwise as it could not survive any other way. Your overly liberal ideology at this time in your life has obviously been sparked by your attendance in college. The college campus is where many professors are known to have great influence on the young and highly impressionable students, students such as yourself. The college campus is a common breeding ground for such activity and the dissimination of highly influencial and liberal propaganda. It is a place where educators and students alike coexist in a 'dream world' but do not for 1 second believe that it is the 'real world'. Unfortunately that is the nature of the beast.

Do not be swayed SuNmAN. Form your own opinions. Do not embrace those of others. Be aware of what transpires on the college campus and make your own judgement calls. It isn't necessary that you become a full-fledged ultra-conservative; that is not what is asked of you. Just be the Marine you claim to be and and strive to meet your goals and ambitions in the Corps. Bond with your fellow Marines.

If this sounds like a sermon.... well, perhaps it is.

NamVet

YLDNDN6
01-11-07, 03:58 PM
And if there is no red dot on his forehead, I can put one there from 500 meters with open sights!