View Full Version : Replacement for the M-16?
kentmitchell
12-24-06, 07:48 AM
http://www.*************/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_M468,,00.html
Made by the same company that produces the .50 cal. sniper rifle. It's probably too simple and elegant an idea for the DOD "experts" to approve, but Barrett's idea makes sense.
Keeps the good points of the M-16 and improves on it, starting with a 6.8 mm round.
Zulu 36
12-24-06, 09:16 AM
Kent,
You need to fix that URL. Evidently the dirty word checker didn't like a big part of it.
the OICW?
here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM29_OICW
10thzodiac
12-24-06, 05:32 PM
the OICW?here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM29_OICW
OICW has largely been a failure in terms of achieving the specific program goals (e.g. replacing the M16) and has cost millions of dollars.
On October 31, 2005, the OICW I program was cancelled.
SF
10thz
ok...whats the new weapon then?
10thzodiac
12-24-06, 06:38 PM
"As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want," Rumsfeld said.
"As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want," Rumsfeld said.
sweet quote from our EXSecretary of Defense
thankfully he's an ex, I hope the new one can do better.
10thzodiac
12-24-06, 07:04 PM
The more things change the more they remain the same, to kill the tail you have to cut off the head.
ggyoung
12-24-06, 07:15 PM
10th----somebody kills your tail might as well cut the head off too.
10thzodiac
12-24-06, 08:23 PM
That's how they did RFK/USAG (e.g. the tail)
Sgt Leprechaun
12-25-06, 10:03 AM
While I can't hit the url from work, I can say that the underpowered 5.56 has been a disaster from almost day one. We need something in the .30 caliber range as a rifle, and the .45 as a pistol. The 9mm is a crap cartridge as well, even in the hollowpoint version. Remember, the .45 was INVENTED to replace the .38 revolver, which was found to be underpowered against charging Moro (Muslim) warriors in the Phillippines. Then, what do we do? In 1985, we replace a good, simple weapon with the POS Berretta 9mm.
SkilletsUSMC
12-25-06, 12:29 PM
This is one BADASS rifle an I wonder why on earth it ever lost a bid. I am buying one soon. you got to hold one in your hands to know what I mean. Its the ultimate AK/M16 marrige, and 6.8SPC amunition is the way to go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_Arms_XCR
http://world.guns.ru/assault/robarm_xcr-1.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/assault/robarm_xcr-2.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/assault/robarm_xcr-3.jpg
FistFu68
12-25-06, 12:58 PM
:evilgrin: THERE HAVE BEEN MORE BAD GUY'S SNUFFED,BY THE 5.56 RND. THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE!WHY DO YOU THINK,THE RUSSIAN'S & THE CHINA MAN;WENT THAT WAY?AFTER ALL WHAT IS A HUMAN BUT A MERE TWO LEGGED VARMIT!AFTER WE HANDED OVER OUR M-14'S,IN THE BUSH TOO THE AR-15;OUR BODY COUNT DOUBLED!WE WERE A RIFLE CO.THAT TOOK OUR MISSION'S DEAD SERIOUS,ENOUGH SO TO EARN TWO PUC'S IN LESS THAN A YEAR!!! WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT KILLING,ENLIGHTEN ME???:iwo:
Sgt Leprechaun
12-25-06, 01:09 PM
FIST, are you directing the 'killin' comment to me or Sun? LOL...
I've done what I had to do killin wise. Nuff said.
I do know, tho, from personal and unpleasant experience, that underpowered handguns are just about worthless in an up close and personal 'encounter'. I'd prefer to arm myself with something that has "1 round" knockdown power, such as the .45 or some such.
Interesting that you are one of the few Marines I've heard with something good to say about the AR-15/M-16. I assume you never had an issue with stoppages or jams in the 'bush'? I'm just curious, since I've heard so much about that particular issue.
BTW, I have zero 'trigger' time in the USMC. All mine comes from Law Enforcement.
SkilletsUSMC
12-25-06, 01:46 PM
Delete please
SkilletsUSMC
12-25-06, 01:56 PM
:evilgrin: THERE HAVE BEEN MORE BAD GUY'S SNUFFED,BY THE 5.56 RND. THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE!WHY DO YOU THINK,THE RUSSIAN'S & THE CHINA MAN;WENT THAT WAY?AFTER ALL WHAT IS A HUMAN BUT A MERE TWO LEGGED VARMIT!AFTER WE HANDED OVER OUR M-14'S,IN THE BUSH TOO THE AR-15;OUR BODY COUNT DOUBLED!WE WERE A RIFLE CO.THAT TOOK OUR MISSION'S DEAD SERIOUS,ENOUGH SO TO EARN TWO PUC'S IN LESS THAN A YEAR!!! WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT KILLING,ENLIGHTEN ME???:iwo:
I dont think your post was directed towards me, but i know that a 5.56 doesnt drop a man on the spot like a 7.62x51 Insurgents are using adrenaline and cocaine to absorb damage. We need a harder hitting round such as the 6.8 SPC. BTW 6.8 rounds fit inside of 5.56 magazines, and I think the links work with both as well.
SkilletsUSMC
12-25-06, 01:59 PM
FIST, are you directing the 'killin' comment to me or Sun? LOL...
I've done what I had to do killin wise. Nuff said.
I do know, tho, from personal and unpleasant experience, that underpowered handguns are just about worthless in an up close and personal 'encounter'. I'd prefer to arm myself with something that has "1 round" knockdown power, such as the .45 or some such.
Interesting that you are one of the few Marines I've heard with something good to say about the AR-15/M-16. I assume you never had an issue with stoppages or jams in the 'bush'? I'm just curious, since I've heard so much about that particular issue.
BTW, I have zero 'trigger' time in the USMC. All mine comes from Law Enforcement.
The Vast majority of all jams in the M16 are magazine related. I fired my m16 after dust storms with zero jams. One bad mag though will really screw the system up.
FistFu68
12-25-06, 02:15 PM
:evilgrin:(LMAO)SGT.L~SONBOY,WOULD PROBABLY WALK POINT WITH A (LAW)!THE CONG WERE NOTORIOUS,FOR SMOKING OPIUM,EATING SPEED;BEFORE ENGAGING US!BUT WE PULLED A FEW SURPRISE'S IN OUR DAY,NEVER SAW ONE OF THOSE BASTARD'S SURVIVE,A SHOT SENT TO THE CORRECT ADDRESS(HEAD SHOT)!MOST OF OUR CHIT WAS UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL! CLEANING WAS CONSTANT,ALSO CHECKING OUR BRASS FOR NIC'S OR BURR'S;OVERLOOKING SUCH A SMALL DETAIL;COULD BECOME VERY HAZARDOUS TOO YOU'R HEALTH! I AGREE ON YOU'R TAKE ON THE .45ACP!!!:iwo:
FIST, are you directing the 'killin' comment to me or Sun? LOL...
I've done what I had to do killin wise. Nuff said.
I do know, tho, from personal and unpleasant experience, that underpowered handguns are just about worthless in an up close and personal 'encounter'. I'd prefer to arm myself with something that has "1 round" knockdown power, such as the .45 or some such.
Interesting that you are one of the few Marines I've heard with something good to say about the AR-15/M-16. I assume you never had an issue with stoppages or jams in the 'bush'? I'm just curious, since I've heard so much about that particular issue.
BTW, I have zero 'trigger' time in the USMC. All mine comes from Law Enforcement.
directed at me probably
I know nothing about killing :-)
Sgt Leprechaun
12-25-06, 02:34 PM
So noted FIST, thanks! Walking point with a LAAW.....too funny!
I'll take my .45 over the Glock I used to carry, believe me. Although it was a reliable and easy to shoot piece, they give you 17 rounds for a reason LOL...
Cop training teaches to aim 'center mass' most of the time, but I read some interesting studies about 15 years ago that suggested to change our points of aim to the hips; the theory being with 9mm, two or three 'double tap' hip shots would send the bad guy dropping on his face, no matter how many drugs or chemicals were in his system, since if the hip socket/rotator goes bye bye, bad guy goes down. The idea never caught on, partly due to the fact that it's not "PC" to aim for the adversaries crotch...lol....but I try to alternate, when I go to the range, between hip shots and head shots.
Still, it's much easier to shoot at a paper man than it is a real one. Paper men just stand there, and when you hit em, they don't scream, keep shooting, bleed, fall over, or anything else. I shoot 'master' on the range, but that don't mean squat in the real world.
SuN....be glad for that. And hope you never have to....but that if you do, you do what ya gotta, when ya gotta.
SkilletsUSMC
12-25-06, 02:45 PM
So noted FIST, thanks! Walking point with a LAAW.....too funny!
I'll take my .45 over the Glock I used to carry, believe me. Although it was a reliable and easy to shoot piece, they give you 17 rounds for a reason LOL...
Cop training teaches to aim 'center mass' most of the time, but I read some interesting studies about 15 years ago that suggested to change our points of aim to the hips; the theory being with 9mm, two or three 'double tap' hip shots would send the bad guy dropping on his face, no matter how many drugs or chemicals were in his system, since if the hip socket/rotator goes bye bye, bad guy goes down. The idea never caught on, partly due to the fact that it's not "PC" to aim for the adversaries crotch...lol....but I try to alternate, when I go to the range, between hip shots and head shots.
Still, it's much easier to shoot at a paper man than it is a real one. Paper men just stand there, and when you hit em, they don't scream, keep shooting, bleed, fall over, or anything else. I shoot 'master' on the range, but that don't mean squat in the real world.
SuN....be glad for that. And hope you never have to....but that if you do, you do what ya gotta, when ya gotta.
Our Snipers claim they shot the head clean off an insurgent who was high on Coke and Adrenaline. they say he took off running 6-7 paces before dropping. I didnt see it myself so its not really that trustworthy. But it is true that when all jacked up the body can take a pretty hard licking and keep on ticking.
SkilletsUSMC
12-25-06, 02:55 PM
SuN....be glad for that. And hope you never have to....but that if you do, you do what ya gotta, when ya gotta.
I imagine having to shoot someone as a cop would be so much harder than shooting insurgents.
FistFu68
12-25-06, 03:42 PM
:evilgrin: WE HAD AN INCIDENT,AT QUANTICO;A MARINE WAS GOING BERZERK.HE WAS ARMED WITH A SAWED OFF 12GAUGE! AS WE APPROACHED THE MAN,HE WAS TOLD TO DROP THE WEAPON, THE CPL. WITH ME ASKED WHAT SHOULD I DO;I TOLD HIM TOO SHOOT HIS AZZ! HE SHOT HIM IN THE HAND,WITH HIS DUTY .45~NO EXCESSIVE FORCE(LOL) BLEW MOST OF HIS HAND CLEAN OFF!LATER WHEN WE WERE DEBRIEFED,WE FOUND OUT HE WAS ON ANGEL DUST!!!OH, HE WAS ALSO SHOOT IN THE KNEE'S;WITH MY DUTY 12 GAUGE. NO.4 SHOT,NEVER REALLY WANTED TOO KILL A FELLOW MARINE!!!:iwo:
Sgt Leprechaun
12-25-06, 03:45 PM
Depends on the situation, truth be told. With the amount of public scrutiny these days, it's not fun by any means. But, when it's down and dirty, you tend not to think about that.
I don't have trouble sleeping, cause I know I was righteous doing what I've done.
And, really, what are criminals but insurgents using a different name, anyway? Some of the urban areas in this country today are no different than Al Anbar province, and probably have a higher body count per annum than some of the other Iraqi provinces. Heck, would you want to walk through SouthEast DC at 0100 in the AM? How about Cabrini Green? Watts?
I did it for five years in Prince Georges County, 5 miles from the SE DC line :) At least the tour in Fallujah is "only" six months LOL :)
It's all in the perception, though.
BTW, the body deal wouldn't surprise me; the human body is remarkably resiliant..sometimes so much so it scares me.
10thzodiac
12-25-06, 04:57 PM
:evilgrin: WE HAD AN INCIDENT,AT QUANTICO;A MARINE WAS GOING BERZERK.HE WAS ARMED WITH A SAWED OFF 12GAUGE! AS WE APPROACHED THE MAN,HE WAS TOLD TO DROP THE WEAPON, THE CPL. WITH ME ASKED WHAT SHOULD I DO;I TOLD HIM TOO SHOOT HIS AZZ! HE SHOT HIM IN THE HAND,WITH HIS DUTY .45~NO EXCESSIVE FORCE(LOL) BLEW MOST OF HIS HAND CLEAN OFF!LATER WHEN WE WERE DEBRIEFED,WE FOUND OUT HE WAS ON ANGEL DUST!!!OH, HE WAS ALSO SHOOT IN THE KNEE'S;WITH MY DUTY 12 GAUGE. NO.4 SHOT,NEVER REALLY WANTED TOO KILL A FELLOW MARINE!!!:iwo:
Back in the '60s, I worked with a former sailor that during WWII while he was on Shore Patrol, a sailor that they were attempting to apprehend, wrested his .45 away and shot him in the middle finger (gone) and he said it knocked him down like a truck hit him.
I pulled Battalion MP duty a couple of times when deployed in Japan, but 12th Marine Regimental CP duty was the roughest for me. We were stationed on a Army Base 'Camp Zukeran' (now Foster) and we had to get our Marines before the army MP paratroopers did.
On CP duty one night in Zukeran, I got kicked in the face when I was laying down a supposedly passed out drunken Marine in the back of our jeep, we found in the middle of the road by our EM Club. After he smashed me in the face with the bottom of his foot he ran like a jack rabbit through our SNCO area. I yelled twice for him to halt before I hit him once with my billy club from behind on the knee that slowed him down, he still kept running, limping; I think I busted his knee the second time with my billy club. Usually we bring them back to their outfit, but to cover my ass, I took him to the Regimental O.D. where he said his knee was fine, I don't think so, but he was due to go home and when you are due to go home, you'll say anything even if your knee is busted. Crazy !
FistFu68
12-25-06, 05:25 PM
:usmc: #10~WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN THE 3RD.HERD~173RD.AIRBORNE, BY ANY CHANCE? S/F MARINE!!!:iwo:
10thzodiac
12-25-06, 05:47 PM
:usmc: #10~WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN THE 3RD.HERD~173RD.AIRBORNE, BY ANY CHANCE? S/F MARINE!!!:iwo:
Yep ! Some of those boys were pretty big too. Loved to watch them hanging off the roof next door down the side of their barracks playing war.
They definitely appeared to have their sh*t together, compared to us arty poges !
Glad they were on our side.
When their/our houseboy came over to our NCO quarters he'd bring the paratrooper boots to shine with him. Our acting battalion comm chief, a corporal that had a jump badge found a pair that fit him. I didn't like it, but what could you do ? The Green Wall !
SF
10thz
FistFu68
12-25-06, 06:15 PM
:evilgrin:BEING AN ARMY BRAT~HAD IT'S REWARD'S AT TIME'S!SOME OF THE BEST FIST~FIGHT'S,I EVER SAW AS A KID;WERE BETWEEN MARINE'S & AIRBORNE TROOPER'S!WHEN IT WAS ONE ON ONE, IT WAS QUITE ENTERTAINING;I MUST SAY!(LOL) HAVE A SAFE NEW YEAR~MARINE:iwo:
10thzodiac
12-25-06, 06:23 PM
:evilgrin:BEING AN ARMY BRAT~HAD IT'S REWARD'S AT TIME'S!SOME OF THE BEST FIST~FIGHT'S,I EVER SAW AS A KID;WERE BETWEEN MARINE'S & AIRBORNE TROOPER'S!WHEN IT WAS ONE ON ONE, IT WAS QUITE ENTERTAINING;I MUST SAY!(LOL) HAVE A SAFE NEW YEAR~MARINE:iwo:
One on one, Lol.
Paratroopers vs Cannon Cockers (Camp Zukeran)
Have a safe New Year too Marine !
SF
10thz
10thzodiac
12-25-06, 06:30 PM
Our Snipers claim they shot the head clean off an insurgent who was high on Coke and Adrenaline. they say he took off running 6-7 paces before dropping. I didnt see it myself so its not really that trustworthy. But it is true that when all jacked up the body can take a pretty hard licking and keep on ticking.
Have you ever seen what a chicken does after its head is cut off on the chopping block http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif
10thzodiac
12-25-06, 06:33 PM
Our Snipers claim they shot the head clean off an insurgent who was high on Coke and Adrenaline. they say he took off running 6-7 paces before dropping. I didnt see it myself so its not really that trustworthy. But it is true that when all jacked up the body can take a pretty hard licking and keep on ticking.
Have you ever seen a chicken run after its head is cut off ?
Echo5November
12-26-06, 11:55 AM
say what you will about tht stopping power, or lack there of in the M16's 5.56 round or the Beretta M9 9mm. I don't know too many individuals that can take a round or two in the heart or head and keep rockin' and rollin'. One Shot, One Kill. A .40, .45, .357, .300 or .50 does no go good if you can put it on targer.
FistFu68
12-26-06, 12:15 PM
:evilgrin: RIGHT~ON ECHO 5,HERE'S A MARINE, THAT KNOW'S WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT!SENDING IT TO THE CORRECT ADDRESS IS THE KEY!!!:iwo:
say what you will about tht stopping power, or lack there of in the M16's 5.56 round or the Beretta M9 9mm. I don't know too many individuals that can take a round or two in the heart or head and keep rockin' and rollin'. One Shot, One Kill. A .40, .45, .357, .300 or .50 does no go good if you can put it on targer.
Barring a trained sniper, I don't know many people that can achieve a "one shot one kill" consistently against a running target
but then again, what do I know.
Zulu 36
12-26-06, 06:10 PM
One shot, one kill is good theory. With the right gun and right shooter.
Those of us who have seen shot people know that one round doesn't always get the job done. In fact, I wouldn't bet my life on one shot doing the job with any handgun caliber or an 5.56mm round. God put burst selectors on M-16s for a reason.
Zulu 36
12-26-06, 06:13 PM
And, really, what are criminals but insurgents using a different name, anyway? Some of the urban areas in this country today are no different than Al Anbar province, and probably have a higher body count per annum than some of the other Iraqi provinces. Heck, would you want to walk through SouthEast DC at 0100 in the AM? How about Cabrini Green? Watts?
Too true, bro. A lot of Detroit cops I know considered themselves more an army of occupation, not a police force.
FistFu68
12-26-06, 06:36 PM
:usmc: SONNY~ARE YOU A RIFLEMAN? EITHER WAY,YOU BETTER GET IN AS MUCH PRACTICE AS YOU CAN;ON THOSE RUNNING TARGET'S!IT MIGHT HELP YOU TAKE OUT SOME OF THAT WHITE~TRASH,YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT!(LOL):D
FistFu68
12-26-06, 06:41 PM
:usmc: OH BY THE WAY,ZULU;HAVE YOU EVER BEEN SHOT???:usmc:
SkilletsUSMC
12-26-06, 07:14 PM
:usmc: SONNY~ARE YOU A RIFLEMAN? EITHER WAY,YOU BETTER GET IN AS MUCH PRACTICE AS YOU CAN;ON THOSE RUNNING TARGET'S!IT MIGHT HELP YOU TAKE OUT SOME OF THAT WHITE~TRASH,YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT!(LOL):D
7.62=One shot-one kill
5.56=multiple shots-one mortally wounded and ****ed off jihadist with a frag in his pocket.
:usmc: SONNY~ARE YOU A RIFLEMAN? EITHER WAY,YOU BETTER GET IN AS MUCH PRACTICE AS YOU CAN;ON THOSE RUNNING TARGET'S!IT MIGHT HELP YOU TAKE OUT SOME OF THAT WHITE~TRASH,YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT!(LOL):D
lol white trash?
I personally know none
99% of my friends are white
all the girls I've dated and have been interested in are white
My take on the differences is this. One well aimed round from a 5.56 weapon produces an injury serious enough that it requires the attention of a medic and then 2 more of your enemy to carry him out. You have effectively taken 4 enemy soldiers out of the fight with one little bullet.
One well aimed round from a 7.62 and the medic redistributes the ammo and tosses a poncho over the dead. An M-14 sure is a nice weapon and it weighs a little over 14 pounds. An M-16 is a nice weapon and it weighs just under 8 pounds. Pick up the book "A Soldiers Load".
drumcorpssnare
12-27-06, 10:05 AM
I still like the 1.00cal. Gatling!:D
drumcorpssnare:usmc:
10thzodiac
12-27-06, 10:12 AM
I still like the 1.00cal. Gatling!:D
drumcorpssnare:usmc:
Mark, what about your Custer .45/70 Springfield, you can actually see the bullet from point to point, a regular freight train !
SF
10thz
drumcorpssnare
12-27-06, 10:32 AM
10thz- That 45-70 trap-door wasn't all it was cracked up to be. The rolling-block or drop-block versions were much better. I put many rounds down range from my 45-70, and I enjoyed every one of them! It will drop an elk where he stands. And prairie dogs just explode from the hydrostatic shock!
Of course I was partial to my mountain howitzer with a 3" bore. I used to buy worn-out ball bearings from drilling rigs that were stainless steel. Hung a 2'x2' square 'gong' at 100 paces, and after a few tries, hit it with that 5lb. ball. It wrinkled up that 1/4" diamond plate like it was a sheet of paper, AND ripped it off the chains and threw it another 50yds. down-range! NICE!
Too bad Custer didn't listen...
drumcorpssnare:usmc:
ggyoung
12-27-06, 11:27 AM
Bulkyker-----In every war the Marine Corps has been in from WW2 to presant the enemy we have faced don't care about there wounded untill after the fighting is over. Then they use a meat hook to pull they away.
SkilletsUSMC
12-27-06, 11:38 AM
My take on the differences is this. One well aimed round from a 5.56 weapon produces an injury serious enough that it requires the attention of a medic and then 2 more of your enemy to carry him out. You have effectively taken 4 enemy soldiers out of the fight with one little bullet.
One well aimed round from a 7.62 and the medic redistributes the ammo and tosses a poncho over the dead. An M-14 sure is a nice weapon and it weighs a little over 14 pounds. An M-16 is a nice weapon and it weighs just under 8 pounds. Pick up the book "A Soldiers Load".
As for the killing power of the 5.56, Im not against it because you can carry so many of them on you at one time, but they have no put down power. Yes they kill bad guys, but killing them 2 hours from now wont cut it. No one yells the arabic version of Corpsman up for a Jihadist Martyr with a pound of PE-4 on his chest.
My M16A4 weighs about 9lbs and 12lbs with all the extra doodads that they make you carry. An M14 is almost identical in weight. But if you read my post I never said anything about the M14. I would like to see the Marine Corps go to the Robinson Arms XCR. That rifle can be converted to 6.8 (Best of both worlds) in 5 minutes.
The meat hook thing makes me think someone has been watching too many movies or something.
If I found myself in the war machine searching for a replacement for the M-16 my first impulse would be to call for either the AK-47 or the AK-74. Drop one of them in the mud then run over it with a tank and it still fires like it was brand new. As for house to house fighting I would take a M-16, or mini 14, or MP-5 over any ole big ole elephant gun. You want to reach out and touch someone then call that M-198 battery that is a mile behind you. I'm fairly certain that infantry marines are still trained to call for fire.
FistFu68
12-27-06, 12:22 PM
:evilgrin: SKILLETS~HAPPY~BIRTHDAY MARINE~WITH YOU'R NEW RIFLE;MAY YOU LIVE TOO SEE MANY MORE!!!GOOD TO GO MARINE? S/F:usmc:
SkilletsUSMC
12-27-06, 12:33 PM
:evilgrin: SKILLETS~HAPPY~BIRTHDAY MARINE~WITH YOU'R NEW RIFLE;MAY YOU LIVE TOO SEE MANY MORE!!!GOOD TO GO MARINE? S/F:usmc:
Thanks FISTFU68... Ill work on that rifle and on making sure some terroist dont see their next Birthday
Semper Fidelis
10thzodiac
12-27-06, 12:34 PM
10thz- That 45-70 trap-door wasn't all it was cracked up to be. The rolling-block or drop-block versions were much better. I put many rounds down range from my 45-70, and I enjoyed every one of them! It will drop an elk where he stands. And prairie dogs just explode from the hydrostatic shock!
Of course I was partial to my mountain howitzer with a 3" bore. I used to buy worn-out ball bearings from drilling rigs that were stainless steel. Hung a 2'x2' square 'gong' at 100 paces, and after a few tries, hit it with that 5lb. ball. It wrinkled up that 1/4" diamond plate like it was a sheet of paper, AND ripped it off the chains and threw it another 50yds. down-range! NICE!
Too bad Custer didn't listen...
drumcorpssnare
Yeah, It is a George thing not listening http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/34.gif
On the "Rock" in '64, on a HQ Battery 'Crew Served Weapon's' shoot all the office poges didn't show up and we had tons of ammo to shoot off and we couldn't bring it back, it was too old. Our skipper designated me and a few others to shoot off all the HEAT & BLUE 3.5 rockets off. It took the better part of the day. I got so good I could hit a human silhouette target at a hundred yards.
The Skipper almost had fatal heart attack twice that day because of me. First he got p*ssed at my ingenuity of carrying rockets from point A to point B like cord-wood. Then the first rocket I fired I flinched and unknowingly jammed the sight forward, by the time I fired my next rocket my tube was almost vertical http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif, it went right over the mountain and the Skipper thought for sure I KIA someone on the other side http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/34.gif.
We got so numb firing so many rockets that day, we got careless and starting pushing the rockets into fast, past the electrical contacts and had to break the tube down to pull them out without the spring loaded arming pin jumping out on us, then while doing that the guy next to you fired his, then you though for sure you bought the farm; that applied when you were the loader to... you looked to see if your hands were still there when you were loading and the guy right next to you blasted one off !
SF
10thz
ggyoung
12-27-06, 12:34 PM
Bu;kyker========You were not in Vietnam. The meat hook was a common tool used by both hardcore VC and the NVA. I know this for a fact. On Operation Hasting I seen this with my own eyes.
SkilletsUSMC
12-27-06, 12:43 PM
The meat hook thing makes me think someone has been watching too many movies or something.
If I found myself in the war machine searching for a replacement for the M-16 my first impulse would be to call for either the AK-47 or the AK-74. Drop one of them in the mud then run over it with a tank and it still fires like it was brand new. As for house to house fighting I would take a M-16, or mini 14, or MP-5 over any ole big ole elephant gun. You want to reach out and touch someone then call that M-198 battery that is a mile behind you. I'm fairly certain that infantry marines are still trained to call for fire.
The robinson XCR equals the reliability of the AK/AKM. It also maintians the accuracy and good ergonomics of the M-16
http://www.robarm.com/xcrtm_modular_weapon_system.htm
And Yes, we can and have called for fire.
FistFu68
12-27-06, 12:48 PM
:evilgrin: THAT'S A BIG AFFIRMATITTY,SGT!ON YOU'R LAST;WE GOT LUCKY IN HAPPY VALLEY.AMBUSHED A BUNCH OF VICTOR~CHARLIE'S.KILLED EVERY ONE OF THE SNEAKY LITTLE BASTARD'S!!!THEY HAD THEIR HOOK'S WITH THEM,THESE WERE MADE OUTTA BAMBOO,AND STRUNG THROUGH SOME PARACHUTE CORD!!! S/F~MARINE :usmc:
Bu;kyker========You were not in Vietnam. The meat hook was a common tool used by both hardcore VC and the NVA. I know this for a fact. On Operation Hasting I seen this with my own eyes.
GYoung..... I apologize. Yes I was just a kid when vietnam was going on. I overstepped I guess. It is a well known fact and part of MC docterine that one well placed round can produce many casualties both ambulatory and wounded.
Would you walk away from a wounded Marine?
ggyoung
12-27-06, 02:20 PM
Bulkyker===========You were not out of line. You overstepped nothing. You are ok by me.