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thedrifter
12-19-06, 02:10 PM
December 25, 2006
Relaxing in the barracks
Junior Marines hope new rules will mean less time cleaning

By John Hoellwarth and Gidget Fuentes
Staff writers

If you pass by the barracks room belonging to Lance Cpls. Raymond Castro and Michael Croslin, everything looks pretty squared away.

The room is sparse. No posters or pictures liven up the walls. It’s got the standard-issue armoires, wall lockers, dressers, nightstands and chairs. They keep it clean.

But there is something different.

For one, the metal bunk beds are configured in an L-shape. Castro’s bed is flush against the wall next to the bathroom, while his computer armoire and dresser — placed parallel with the wall — divide his space from his roommate’s.

The setup keeps them out of each other’s way. In his little nook, Castro can sit on his bed to work on his laptop on the armoire’s fold-down desk. From his bed, Croslin can watch a movie on a small TV placed in his armoire, flanking the doorway.

The change sounds small, but what it says is huge, especially to staff noncommissioned officers and field day inspectors who furrowed their brows when they thought they saw a violation.

It’s the first step in a plan — endorsed by sergeants major throughout the Corps and awaiting the go-ahead from top leadership — that aims to treat barracks-dwellers like grown-ups. Or to attack, as Sgt. Maj. John Estrada, sergeant major of the Marine Corps, calls it, the “dinosaur” mentality. And he says it’s key to bridging the gap between single Marines and those who are married and live off base, away from the watchful eye of staff NCOs.

He wants Marines in the barracks to hang as many pictures as they want and to move their furniture around at will. He wants less meddling by staff NCOs in barracks life. He wants fewer field days. And he said “we will” change the mentality of leaders who think today’s Marines can’t be trusted with a longer leash.

It’s all part of the Bachelor Enlisted Quarters Campaign Plan, written in 1999, never used, and now being dusted off and modernized. Estrada said Marines can expect to see a MarAdmin soon that addresses the issue.

And while it’s still a proposal, some units, such as the headquarters squadron at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Ariz., home to Castro and Croslin, are taking it for a test drive. As Castro pointed out proudly, his room fits within the new regs.

A common improvement

The plan was set in motion earlier this year, when former Commandant Gen. Mike Hagee solicited comments concerning barracks life from Marines throughout the Corps, Estrada said, and asking what changes Marines would like to see.

Turns out, only about 2 percent of the things Marines wanted to change cost money, such as better plumbing and working air conditioners.

The remaining 98 percent required a change in the mind-set of barracks leadership, which — all kicking and screaming aside — costs nothing and can be addressed immediately.

“But the amazing thing is the old barracks campaign plan covered some of these things. It’s already there, but no one is enforcing it,” Estrada said, referring to the 1999 initiative launched by retired Gen. Charles Krulak, who was commandant.

Krulak wrote that his Bachelor Enlisted Quarters Campaign Plan was intended “to improve the quality and habitability of our BEQs, foster the development of our Marines, and to provide a road map with a common source of reference and policy direction for all Marines.”

The 34-page plan touched on issues that Estrada said remain central concerns for Marines in the barracks, such as visitation policies, alcohol storage and consumption, and personalizing rooms.

The 1999 plan endorsed the long-standing barracks drinking policy that lets commanders decide how much alcohol Marines of each rank can possess. It also upheld the rule that visitors must log in with the Marine on duty, have an escort at all times, and leave before night’s end. Krulak’s plan standardized government furniture and made its use mandatory, but opened the door for Marines to use their own rugs, sheets, pillowcases, bedspreads and comforters if they liked.

Though the plan was the Corps’ first formalized step in the direction Estrada and other sergeants major across the Corps are going — made into a proposal at this year’s sergeants major symposium — Krulak’s stated intent was to standardize barracks life. But Estrada aims to take the issue to another level by addressing the concerns of Marines such as Cpl. Richard McCumber, a combat photographer who lives in the barracks at Henderson Hall in Arlington, Va., a short walk from the Pentagon.

“I’m almost 28, and I can’t do half the stuff I want to do. If I want to have a lady friend stay the night, I should be able to,” McCumber said. “But I have to go over to her place or get a hotel. And my family can’t come over and visit unless I have money for a hotel room, too.”

That’s the mentality — the notion that junior Marines can’t be treated like adults — that Estrada wants to get rid of.

“I have spoken very tough on that issue with staff NCOs across the Marine Corps that it’s time we move away from this whole dinosaur way of thinking and how we look at our single Marines,” Estrada said. “They’d better be allowed to personalize their rooms. It is their home. If we look at it just like the married Marines, base housing, that’s their home. They enjoy a certain type of privacy.”

He said gunnys don’t go knocking on doors in base housing when they’re looking for a warm body to stand duty on holiday weekends, which is why Marines in the barracks feel their diminished expectation of privacy is unfair.

“When they talk about a lack of privacy, they’re not talking about their roommates. They’re talking about the leadership and people coming down to the barracks,” Estrada said.

But Estrada admitted that not everyone is hot on the idea. He described an encounter with a first sergeant in Iraq who “was adamant that we should not allow” the intended changes because she felt Marines were not mature enough to handle the freedom. And some staff NCOs at Camp Pendleton have countered once-a-month field day by popping into rooms for random inspections so frequently that Marines are under increased pressure to be inspection ready every day, according to barracks dwellers there.

“We still have some staff NCOs that feel that Marines should not have the type of things that they’re asking for today because they didn’t have it back in their time,” Estrada said. “Those are the ones that I call the dinosaurs, and those dinosaurs need to get on this train as we’re moving forward.”

Singled out

The military has two basic housing policies, one for single troops and another for those married or with children.

Marine Corps policy requires that single Marines in grades E-5 and below must live in barracks where provided. More senior single Marines get less Basic Allowance for Housing than married Marines, since they presumably don’t need as large a home as someone who’s married or has children.

Marriage — or being a single parent — means on-base quarters or the monthly, tax-free BAH to pay for an off-base apartment or house.

It’s no secret that some service members marry for two reasons other than love: No more barracks living and more money. Some Marines refer to them as “contract marriages.”

But Corps leaders aren’t about to let junior single Marines collect BAH and live in town.

“Our goal is to keep them, offer them the incentive if they are good Marines to be able to go in town, but I want to have corporals in the barracks with the privates and the PFCs,” Gen. Robert Magnus, assistant commandant of the Marine Corps, told Marine Corps Times reporters and editors this spring. “This is a war-fighting team that needs cohesion.”

“I don’t want a lot of people out there in the civilian community just like all of their peers that are under 26,” Magnus added. “I want them with the Marines on their bases and stations.”

To help, in the past decade, the Corps has been improving housing for all Marines, eliminating squad bays and gang heads, renovating inadequate BEQs and family housing, and modernizing units with Internet connections, cable or satellite television and telephone jacks. Marines can access more gyms, gaming centers, Internet cafes, on-base college courses, sports and races, organized trips and scores of programs and activities for their spouses and children.

But more projects await funding, and Marines say there’s plenty more to do to improve their lives.

That gets back to fixing the dinosaur mentality, a thought process Lance Cpl. Dan Williams is ready to make extinct.

A lithographer, Williams works at a three-man printing shop in the Pentagon. The two sergeants who also work there live in town, but Williams is single. He lives in the barracks at Henderson Hall, where anyone who needs an emergency pamphlet printed in the middle of the night can find him.

Williams said he woke to a knock at his barracks room door at 3 a.m. on a recent Saturday. The Marines on his doorstep “said they’re going to Twentynine Palms in three hours and they need trip itineraries, social directories and point-of-contact cards printed,” Williams said.

“By the time I get back to my room to eat and change my uniform before returning to work and relieving myself from my first shift, they’re already calling me back,” he said. “I know if I lived out in town, they’d say, ‘Don’t worry about it, we’ll handle it in the morning,’ but they know they have me right here in the barracks, so they utilize me.”

Nearly every barracks-dweller in the national capital region interviewed by Marine Corps Times cited the local weather in illustrating their point about the difference between life in the barracks and life in town. When snowstorms create driving conditions officials deem unsafe, married Marines who live in town are often given “unplanned leave” and allowed to stay home. But Marines in the barracks are expected to be at their work stations come rain, sleet, hail or snow, and often get tapped to shovel a path from the barracks to the Pentagon, to boot.

“They come and get the Marines in the barracks who turn out to be the only ones at work,” said Lance Cpl. Derik Frazier, a personnel clerk at Marine Corps headquarters. “Everyone else is at home sleeping.”

And then there’s field day.

Single Marines often complain that room inspections and weekly cleanups make them feel like children.

However, married Marines who live in base homes do face routine “health and safety” inspections that go beyond ensuring that smoke detectors work and clutter doesn’t block doors and common areas.

Sgt. Daniel Rosales believes rigid BEQ rules and inspections unfairly target single Marines, who, if they complain, are told to “suck it up.” One barracks rule baffles him: No more than four pairs of shoes on the floor at any time. “What’s the big deal?” asked Rosales, who lives at Camp H.M. Smith in Hawaii.

“When they do clean their room, and especially here, there’s no way of getting rid of all the dust,” he said. “A few Marines I inspect ... stayed up until 1 in the morning cleaning their room because they are scared they are going to fail.”

It’s not easy keeping his room constantly cleaned, especially when he has night college classes. “By the time I get back on Thursday night, it’s a field day night,” he said. “So I’ve got to go clean up my room and have a person tell me that I have dust under my microwave.”

But a married private first class doesn’t face the scrutiny. “He’s automatically considered more clean?” he asked, sarcastically. “So you think this guy is more responsible than I am?

“I’ve been to friends’ housing out in town, and they live in bad conditions, just because they’re lazy and don’t pick up their things,” he said. “On a Thursday night, I have to go clean my room, while they go out and relax.”

How it’s working

Back at Yuma, staff NCOs from Yuma’s headquarters squadron went into a huddle this summer soon after Estrada blew through town to talk to Marines about changing the barracks experience. They forwarded recommendations to their sergeant major that included an idea straight out of Estrada’s new playbook — fewer field days.

“I’m not saying that we don’t need to do field days every once in a while, but do we need to do two or three field days a week?” Estrada said. “Do we need to do it once a week?”

Residents of Yuma’s newly renovated Barracks 720, mostly bachelors with the headquarters squadron, have to endure the inspections and stress of field day only once a month. That change also loosens some rules and gives residents more leeway in making their rooms comfortable.

But monthly field days don’t mean cleanliness isn’t a priority. Every day, a few Marines sweep the barracks’ walkways, common spaces and smoking areas. Weekly checks by unit NCOs are supposed to ensure residents heed the rules and ready for the next shop-level inspection.

“The understanding is that as long as they are keeping a good general cleanup, we need not go back to command inspections. So far, that’s worked well,” said Sgt. Maj. Christopher Hamel, the squadron’s top enlisted leatherneck.

While painted walls are not allowed, residents can decorate their rooms to their liking. Photos and posters tacked on walls “have to be in good taste,” Hamel said, noting they must abide by existing Marine Corps regulations. That means no X-rated pictures.

Residents can use their own linens, whether it’s a handmade quilt by mom, a favorite NASCAR blanket or a set of 600 thread-count cotton sheets. The rule is “as long as it’s a neat appearance when they’re in the room,” Hamel said. So tuck in those corners.

Marines can rearrange the furniture — but they must keep a clear path to the door from the bathroom area. The rule is designed more for safety — a quick exit in case of a fire, for example — than anything else, he noted.

Barracks visitors still have a 10 p.m. weekly curfew. “That’s just for safety reasons on deck,” he said. Alcohol rules remain, with junior leathernecks 21 or older allowed one six-pack each and NCOs a 12-pack, although no hard liquor is allowed.

At Henderson Hall, however, Marines were lukewarm on the idea.

While most agreed they would be better off with fewer restrictions on their lives there — limitations on alcohol consumption and the visitor’s policy were brought up constantly — the Marines explained that field day was necessary and should be undertaken regularly.

“Field day is important. If you do it once a month, it should be intense because the trash will pile up,” said Cpl. Aaron Beard.

But another Marine, Cpl. Ryan Minnifield, said he can’t wait until field day goes to only once a month instead of each Thursday as it is at Henderson Hall.

“Sometimes, you just dread Thursdays because you want to go home and go to sleep,” he said. “If you’re an adult, nobody should have to look over your shoulder and tell you that your room is nasty.”

McCumber said that if left to their own devices, some Marines, like his old roommate from Camp Pendleton, would invariably live like pigs.

“I had to literally make him bathe,” McCumber said.

Marines like that would likely end up ruining the field day scale-back for everyone else eventually, so the Corps might be better off keeping things as they are, McCumber said.

He’s got a good reason for thinking that way. The Corps has a tradition of making the collective pay for an individual’s mistakes, something drilled in during boot camp to platoons of recruits who do push-ups and flutter kicks to work off the transgressions of an offender.

Estrada wants to move away from this style of leadership, which he said was necessary at one point in the Corps’ history because the average Marine used to be a lot more “hardheaded.”

He said Marines today are a “much smarter, brighter” group that still looks for discipline, “but that discipline doesn’t have to be negative. That leadership doesn’t have to be negative.”

It is the ability to switch gears to this new leadership style that will be the hallmark of a good staff NCO as the Corps moves toward more liberal barracks policies in the coming months, said Hamel, who challenges other sergeants major to make changes in their barracks.

“Don’t wait for the MarAdmin to come out. Implement some of these policies now. The sergeant major’s intent is already clear. Just challenge the Marines to act like grown-ups, then hold them accountable if they don’t,” he said.

Ellie

ErikHeiker
12-21-06, 06:19 AM
How spoiled our young Marines are today! In my day it was open squadbay, field day every Thursday night and absolutely no alcohol allowed.

MotivatorOfTheGuard
12-21-06, 10:01 AM
This is really one of those matters that comes down to individual opinion. We will never see the day where every Marine in the Corps can find common ground on this matter. Personally, i'd rather take field day to my wife. SNCO's are kinder in regards to cleaning than my wife sometimes. All depends on the individual.
:marine:

SkilletsUSMC
12-21-06, 11:46 AM
How spoiled our young Marines are today! In my day it was open squadbay, field day every Thursday night and absolutely no alcohol allowed.

**** no man.... My comapny still lives in a squad bay. And with out field day thursdays it equals field day everyday. I think its worse. As for no alcohol allowed, Marines are going to drink so why not let them do it in the sqaud bay, instead of out in town where they will get arrested for fighting or DUI?

irizavrima
08-12-09, 09:23 PM
I have a couple things in regards to this segment. First, if you are of age, and somebody knocks on your door telling you to stand duty...say that you were drinking. No SNCO can put you on duty if you consumed alcohol. Second, is there any MARADMIN out yet? I am in Iraq and I have been living in a squadbay where we all have bootcamp sheets and everything has to look the same. I have a MSGT poking in my barracks everyday and it's beyond ridiculous. The whole uniformity thing was phased out to my knowledge. I don't see what being in a combat zone has to do with fung-sheui and looks.

Sergeant M
08-13-09, 12:31 AM
This post is 3 years old man. You're a bit behind.

Achped
08-13-09, 12:36 AM
Holy ****, this was in 2006?



Turns out, only about 2 percent of the things Marines wanted to change cost money, such as better plumbing and working air conditionersWOW...WOW! That sounds REALLY familiar doesn't it?

**** off old salts, you want to live like **** in sub-par living quarters, you can set your house up the way I want it, I'll turn off your hot water heater and air conditioning and I'll come by and inspect. Otherwise this is my Corps now and its going to be run the way I want it.

I'm so sick and tired of seeing "old Corps" Marines *****ing that the new Marines have it too easy. Hey, guess what old man? I can add, and subtract. I'm alot smarter than you are, I volunteered during a time of war and I've been to that war, so don't ****ing treat me like I'm an idiot that needs to be babysat like you obviously were.

Personally, I wish the BEQ initiative would be set in place a little bit faster. Word was Marines were supposed to be living on the same level as airman and soldiers. Each Marine had his own room, his own bathroom, and working air conditioners and hot water heaters. Putting 3, 25 year old men in the same room without airconditioning in August is ****ing stupid. Period.

Achped
08-13-09, 12:39 AM
And if you can't ****ing tell, I totally tore into this ****ing ****bag lance on duty who looked like absolute ass in his charlies so I'm still worked up. Look. If your fat sags over your duty belt IN CHARLIES, you have a weight problem. Whether in regs or not.

Sergeant M
08-13-09, 02:38 AM
So disgruntled! Our living conditions are sub-par, but it could be alot worse. I'm not gonna complain because **** just gets worse when you do.

Achped
08-13-09, 02:47 AM
See thats the exact mentality that keeps Marines living in ****hole barracks from the 70's while the Air Force has professional lawn service and no duty NCOs and one to a room with their own thermostat, hot water, and a BATHTUB. (I've seen bricks in Oki with bathtubs but...no, I'd never get in one)

You just have to know how to complain and who to do it to. To complain about your living conditions, your room has to be spotless. They're not going to give you anything nicer if they can show someone "Look, he can't even take care of what he has now" (And I say he, as if you have your own room, when we all know in reality there's 2 or 3 of you in a 15x20ft room)

I complain every chance I get. I came from "newer" barracks before Iraq. Two to a room max, nice layout, looked "pretty" AC was cold, hot water, great bathrooms. Even had walk in closets.

Now we've got wall lockers. I don't know how it was in the Spanish American War when most Marines on leatherneck were in, but we've got ALOT of ****. CIF gear, uniforms, and civilian ****. Not to mention surf boards, guitars, all the big **** that every Marine has. There's no room. Three to a room? And then you get hit on field day for your cif issued items out. There's no room. Which is exactly why this BEQ plan was put into effect which still hasn't saw any progress. The Navy on Pearl Harbor has 20 story condos with elevators, the Army lives in fortress like resorts, and I've covered the AF. Why are Marines living in soviet-style apartments?

I won't say it was only my doing, but it was definitely Marines with mentalities just like mine that got the hot water issue brought up to our battalion CO which lead to a BGen from MarForPac coming to check out our barracks. If you never say "Hey SSgt, could you bring it up at the staff meeting that there's no air conditioning or hot water in the barracks?" the higher ups will *never* know and it will *never* get fixed.

YutYut
08-13-09, 12:06 PM
Well, I'm glad to hear things are progressing. When I was in (all of just a few years ago), the leadership couldn't care less about the BEQ situation. Talking to our shop SNCO's and OIC only warranted the response "bring it to the BEQ manager." The two or three Marines during my barracks life that were the BEQ managers were terrible. Apparently, that position was given to Marines who got into trouble too many times. Company and Bn leadership never did anything to seriously address any situation. There was something like a month that we didn't have hot water. Finally, the Company Gunny tells us that the owner of what appeared to be a 4 man plumbing company was in jail. WTF? At least Marines in those barracks can now make their rooms their own, even if half the rooms can't be safely occupied by anyone.

Drafter
08-13-09, 12:13 PM
Damn we had some good freakin' time in the barracks! Some of the best parties I ever been too. I got caught with a gal in my BEQ at one point. There go my landin' gear for me skeeter wings again. ^

All our rooms had to be Identical 24/7. This was taken on a Saturday morning. I spose I had just put on my shoes, that's why the rack in messed up.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/7thMarine/USMC%20Pics/scan0012.jpg
wow big pic, sorry.

YutYut
08-13-09, 12:32 PM
The 80's were a terrible time for hair and clothing.

StoneTheWeak
08-13-09, 12:40 PM
Holy ****, this was in 2006?

WOW...WOW! That sounds REALLY familiar doesn't it?

**** off old salts, you want to live like **** in sub-par living quarters, you can set your house up the way I want it, I'll turn off your hot water heater and air conditioning and I'll come by and inspect. Otherwise this is my Corps now and its going to be run the way I want it.

I'm so sick and tired of seeing "old Corps" Marines *****ing that the new Marines have it too easy. Hey, guess what old man? I can add, and subtract. I'm alot smarter than you are, I volunteered during a time of war and I've been to that war, so don't ****ing treat me like I'm an idiot that needs to be babysat like you obviously were.

Personally, I wish the BEQ initiative would be set in place a little bit faster. Word was Marines were supposed to be living on the same level as airman and soldiers. Each Marine had his own room, his own bathroom, and working air conditioners and hot water heaters. Putting 3, 25 year old men in the same room without airconditioning in August is ****ing stupid. Period.


No **** right? That's the entire problem, every ******* that runs the Corps thinks that because they had to deal with it, everyone below them should, and it's ****ty leadership. It's why after my first enlistment I'm done. I don't desire to be treated and housed like a child and not make **** doing it. Everyone tells me "Yeah your paychecks are small, but they pay for everything for you." Yeah, well so what, I'd rather go make more money, and use it to pay for my own damn home with food I like and still end up with the same amount of spending money.

zx6rdr
08-13-09, 12:53 PM
No **** right? That's the entire problem, every ******* that runs the Corps thinks that because they had to deal with it, everyone below them should, and it's ****ty leadership. It's why after my first enlistment I'm done. I don't desire to be treated and housed like a child and not make **** doing it. Everyone tells me "Yeah your paychecks are small, but they pay for everything for you." Yeah, well so what, I'd rather go make more money, and use it to pay for my own damn home with food I like and still end up with the same amount of spending money.


WOW, In the Corps for more than a year and a half and still a PFC..... I dont think it is barracks life and ****ty leadership that is making you say that your going to get out after your four.....

YutYut
08-13-09, 01:01 PM
No **** right? That's the entire problem, every ******* that runs the Corps thinks that because they had to deal with it, everyone below them should, and it's ****ty leadership. It's why after my first enlistment I'm done. I don't desire to be treated and housed like a child and not make **** doing it. Everyone tells me "Yeah your paychecks are small, but they pay for everything for you." Yeah, well so what, I'd rather go make more money, and use it to pay for my own damn home with food I like and still end up with the same amount of spending money.

You don't pay for electricity, water, sewage, trash removal, heating/cooling, and general maintenance out of your paycheck (if you live in the barracks). I hope you can find a job in this economy that will pay you 3.5x or more of your Marine Corps salary. Because that's about what it amounts to. At least, that's what it turned out to be when I got out in '07 as a married Sergeant.

Supersquishy
08-13-09, 01:08 PM
in yuma, we were all looking foward to moving into the new barracks when we got back from deployment, after a few months in the new ones, Id rather live in the old barracks, the new ones were super small, and cramped plus you had to becareful not to put holes in the sheet rock walls. At least in the old barracks you could throw something at your roomate and if it missed wouldnt go through the wall...haha.

Petz
08-13-09, 01:43 PM
I have a couple things in regards to this segment. First, if you are of age, and somebody knocks on your door telling you to stand duty...say that you were drinking. No SNCO can put you on duty if you consumed alcohol. Second, is there any MARADMIN out yet? I am in Iraq and I have been living in a squadbay where we all have bootcamp sheets and everything has to look the same. I have a MSGT poking in my barracks everyday and it's beyond ridiculous. The whole uniformity thing was phased out to my knowledge. I don't see what being in a combat zone has to do with fung-sheui and looks.


you've got to have a beer in hand... we did this regularly.

if you just say I can post you... not many Marines drink at 0755 but when you hear every Marine say that... you need to make a command decision.

those with the evidence in hand are a higher risk so....

Petz
08-13-09, 01:45 PM
See thats the exact mentality that keeps Marines living in ****hole barracks from the 70's while the Air Force has professional lawn service and no duty NCOs and one to a room with their own thermostat, hot water, and a BATHTUB. (I've seen bricks in Oki with bathtubs but...no, I'd never get in one)

You just have to know how to complain and who to do it to. To complain about your living conditions, your room has to be spotless. They're not going to give you anything nicer if they can show someone "Look, he can't even take care of what he has now" (And I say he, as if you have your own room, when we all know in reality there's 2 or 3 of you in a 15x20ft room)

I complain every chance I get. I came from "newer" barracks before Iraq. Two to a room max, nice layout, looked "pretty" AC was cold, hot water, great bathrooms. Even had walk in closets.

Now we've got wall lockers. I don't know how it was in the Spanish American War when most Marines on leatherneck were in, but we've got ALOT of ****. CIF gear, uniforms, and civilian ****. Not to mention surf boards, guitars, all the big **** that every Marine has. There's no room. Three to a room? And then you get hit on field day for your cif issued items out. There's no room. Which is exactly why this BEQ plan was put into effect which still hasn't saw any progress. The Navy on Pearl Harbor has 20 story condos with elevators, the Army lives in fortress like resorts, and I've covered the AF. Why are Marines living in soviet-style apartments?

I won't say it was only my doing, but it was definitely Marines with mentalities just like mine that got the hot water issue brought up to our battalion CO which lead to a BGen from MarForPac coming to check out our barracks. If you never say "Hey SSgt, could you bring it up at the staff meeting that there's no air conditioning or hot water in the barracks?" the higher ups will *never* know and it will *never* get fixed.


my brother is in the AF and he says everyone pays 25 dollars a week for all those services... I'll keep my 100 a month thank you very much.

Petz
08-13-09, 01:50 PM
No **** right? That's the entire problem, every ******* that runs the Corps thinks that because they had to deal with it, everyone below them should, and it's ****ty leadership. It's why after my first enlistment I'm done. I don't desire to be treated and housed like a child and not make **** doing it. Everyone tells me "Yeah your paychecks are small, but they pay for everything for you." Yeah, well so what, I'd rather go make more money, and use it to pay for my own damn home with food I like and still end up with the same amount of spending money.


I think this has to do with not just your leadership but your attitude as well.

I can tell from this post that you have issues.

Your leadership may not be the best in the Corps but you appear to NOT BE THE BEST IN THE CORPS as well.

look in the mirror and wonder why your leadership treats you like a child.

I've had lots of kids demand respect but none of them earned it.

what have you done to earn the respect of your leadership?

Drafter
08-13-09, 02:44 PM
The 80's were a terrible time for hair and clothing.

LMAO, I aint lookin for a date freak! But in the day, they'd fall over on their backs with their legs open. ^5

:scared:

Achped
08-13-09, 05:58 PM
you've got to have a beer in hand... we did this regularly.

if you just say I can post you... not many Marines drink at 0755 but when you hear every Marine say that... you need to make a command decision.

those with the evidence in hand are a higher risk so....


WTF?!?! You stole my avatar idea!

StoneTheWeak
08-14-09, 06:32 AM
I think this has to do with not just your leadership but your attitude as well.

I can tell from this post that you have issues.

Your leadership may not be the best in the Corps but you appear to NOT BE THE BEST IN THE CORPS as well.

look in the mirror and wonder why your leadership treats you like a child.

I've had lots of kids demand respect but none of them earned it.

what have you done to earn the respect of your leadership?


Probably, but I'm not here to amass a pile of rockers so high that I can disregard everyone else. 5 and done. I do my job without lip, that's enough for me, and it keeps my gunny out of my ass. Being treated like a child comes from a command and there's nothing a PFC can do about it cause SgtMaj's don't give a ****.

Petz
08-14-09, 10:20 AM
that's just ignorance talking...

no one said you were trying to "amass a pile of rockers" but honestly, since you brought up rank... the best way to fix this is to get promoted and change sh!t.

and I find it hard to believe that your Sgt Maj is your problem... there are a lot of more junior ranks buffering between him and you.... Sgt Majs have other things on their plate than just screwing with PFC schmuck.... you're not that important unless you've hit the blotter.

look in a mirror and ask yourself why is your leadership giving you such a hard time... it's not 'cause they want to... they've dealt with trouble-some Marines before and are probably dealing with that same problem now... you just think they are messing with you.

StoneTheWeak
08-14-09, 11:53 AM
Apparently, you misunderstood. I don't get direct ****. I do what I'm told and it keeps me from getting singled out. I'm talking about mass policy that the chain of command created, that in effect, makes things retarded. It's better here than Pensacola, but from my understanding, its pretty blanket across the entire Marine Corps. My comment about Sgt Maj's is that, they're the direct advisors to the CO, they have a big influence as to what goes on and what policies are made, and sometimes you get some bitter ass old man who thinks we should live just like he had to. And that, is ignorant.


The original post captures exactly what I mean. If a Marine gets married he escapes much of the scrutinous thumb, and it leaves the rest of us single bastards to pick it up back at the barracks. Because we're single, I guess that automatically means we are less responsible. A Sgt has less freedom than a married LCPL, how the **** does that work? On the flip side, there are plenty of PFC's and LCPL's who are MUCH more mature than alot of staff, simply from the fact they've been alive longer. Somewhere along the line the Marine Corps got the idea that just cause you're a PFC, you MUST be young and immature. I can walk three rooms down right now and knock on the door of a 27 year old who is more mature than 75% of the Sgt's and SSgt's I've met.

Petz
08-14-09, 01:00 PM
I can walk three rooms down right now and knock on the door of a 27 year old who is more mature than 75% of the Sgt's and SSgt's I've met.


maturity is all relative... and I think you don't have the proper compass to determine what is and isn't mature... you statements alone show immaturity.

you should look the word up because you have no control of your emotions to be able to make a good argument over this.

you think that because the Sgts and SSgts are having a good time and enjoying themselves that it's immaturity... but are they goofing off when they chew someones ass? are they talking about how Pvt so and so screwed up and how hilarious it was to their drinking buddies.

no they aren't.

but you're showing your immaturity on these forums.

fallfast90
08-14-09, 07:45 PM
Back to the original thread, that is one thing i don't miss about active duty. When i was stationed in Quantico, we lived in barracks that were built in the 20's! Our command decided that we needed to update our barracks so they made everyone (even married Marines) go to the barracks and work there. We had to sand the walls, fix holes, and then paint...all with our own money. We then had to stop because they finally realized that there was lead in the original paint and samples had to be sent to the CDC. We never did find out what the results were. I also laugh because everyone knew that behind the lead paint was asbestos insulation! Even though there were a lot of bad times in the barracks, there were just as many good times. It was a nice feeling though when I got married in my last year in the Marines and I was able to live out in town.

Petz
08-14-09, 08:16 PM
the sheetrock probably had asbestos backer paper... or it was apart of the rock... you know, firebarrier.

now if I was being ordered to fix the barracks with my own cash... as in sand wall and such, I'd laugh.

but what was being brought up was a cleaning issue.

if you don't like the black mold then kill it with bleach then paint over it with a mold-icide (sic) so it doesn't have anything to sink it's roots into...

hell, area maint has paint for you to use in many cases.... just ask your BEQ manager if YOU can go get it from them...

if I had barracks that had sheet rock I'd probably patch up holes myself and paint with authorized pain if need be... hell, I'm gonna be there for the next few years might as well make it look nice. cost... no more than 100 bucks.

StoneTheWeak
08-14-09, 08:30 PM
maturity is all relative... and I think you don't have the proper compass to determine what is and isn't mature... you statements alone show immaturity.

you should look the word up because you have no control of your emotions to be able to make a good argument over this.

you think that because the Sgts and SSgts are having a good time and enjoying themselves that it's immaturity... but are they goofing off when they chew someones ass? are they talking about how Pvt so and so screwed up and how hilarious it was to their drinking buddies.

no they aren't.

but you're showing your immaturity on these forums.

I feel my emotions are in full check, I'm not blowing up and making a scene of biblical proportions, just voicing how I feel. But because I don't share your views of how things should be done, I'm immature. There is no one right way to do things.

I would like to know how you know just how it is every Sgt and SSgt I've met acts. I don't have a problem with them having a good time, never once did I say that but you put words in my mouth. I'd need more than just my hands to count the amount of NCO's I've seen and heard of busted down for doing silly stupid **** that they should have known better than to do. I watched a Sgt get kicked in the balls by a chick at a bar for hitting on her and talking down to her boyfriend. My SDI told us a story of his 1st Sgt giving one of his Sgt's weekend duty so he could go over and **** his wife. And all that happened after he got caught was he was forced to retire. Had it been the other way around that Sgt probably would have gotten tossed out and court martial'd. Really shows how a 1st Sgt was taking care of his Marines. ****ing another mans woman is some high school ****, and even I wouldn't do that. But I guess thats the hallmark of good leadership...

Having rank doesn't mean you have wisdom and leadership. It means you can shoot, run, and do your job. Some people never grow up. Being passionate about how you feel and being immature are two totally different things. I'm passionate about some of the bull**** that gets pulled in the Marine Corps. People hate me for not thinking it is the greatest thing on earth, which it isn't. There is more to life. But I'm not running around throwing a tantrum like a child and saying blah blah blah **** you Gunny, **** you Sir. It doesn't work like that, and I know it. But I do know things could run alot smoother and alot more efficiently if it was done a different way. It's just a bunch of old motards who fervently believe there is "No other way."

Just because I don't like my job doesn't mean I don't do it and that I'm not good at it. How I present myself on here and how I act in uniform are two totally different things. I thought this was a place for Marines to speak their mind outside of the workplace and not worry about getting in trouble, but we already found out that isn't true when somebody called Achped's OOD.

Sorry if what I say rubs you the wrong way, they're just opinions, and what I think will never change the Marine Corps, either when I'm in, or when I'm far far gone.

Drafter
08-14-09, 08:36 PM
100 bucks, you must drink Heineken or something.

"This Old Barracks" with SSGT Petzold.

Due to the poor condition of this drywall I suggest we gut the entire room and start from scatch. With this done, we will be able to inspect the structural integrity of the framing as well as the condition of all the electrical infrastucture. (puts on saftey googles and camo kerchief over his face. Begins hacking away at the black mold drywall with an e-tool)

Next week on "This Old Barracks" SSGT Petzold installs Granite Counter Tops in the sink area and contemplates a complete redo of the shower surround with 1-3/4" OD green armor plating.

:p



the sheetrock probably had asbestos backer paper... or it was apart of the rock... you know, firebarrier.

now if I was being ordered to fix the barracks with my own cash... as in sand wall and such, I'd laugh.

but what was being brought up was a cleaning issue.

if you don't like the black mold then kill it with bleach then paint over it with a mold-icide (sic) so it doesn't have anything to sink it's roots into...

hell, area maint has paint for you to use in many cases.... just ask your BEQ manager if YOU can go get it from them...

if I had barracks that had sheet rock I'd probably patch up holes myself and paint with authorized pain if need be... hell, I'm gonna be there for the next few years might as well make it look nice. cost... no more than 100 bucks.

3522
08-14-09, 08:46 PM
100 bucks, you must drink Heineken or something.

"This Old Barracks" with SSGT Petzold.

Due to the poor condition of this drywall I suggest we gut the entire room and start from scatch. With this done, we will be able to inspect the structural integrity of the framing as well as the condition of all the electrical infrastucture. (puts on saftey googles and camo kerchief over his face. Begins hacking away at the black mold drywall with an e-tool)

Next week on "This Old Barracks" SSGT Petzold installs Granite Counter Tops in the sink area and contemplates a complete redo of the shower surround with 1-3/4" OD green armor plating.

:p

Funny $h!t, Drafter! :D

Supersquishy
08-14-09, 08:49 PM
HAHA Nice, SSgt Pezold whats next cooking tips..LOL

Petz
08-14-09, 09:52 PM
100 bucks, you must drink Heineken or something.

"This Old Barracks" with SSGT Petzold.

Due to the poor condition of this drywall I suggest we gut the entire room and start from scatch. With this done, we will be able to inspect the structural integrity of the framing as well as the condition of all the electrical infrastucture. (puts on saftey googles and camo kerchief over his face. Begins hacking away at the black mold drywall with an e-tool)

Next week on "This Old Barracks" SSGT Petzold installs Granite Counter Tops in the sink area and contemplates a complete redo of the shower surround with 1-3/4" OD green armor plating.

:p

I was actually thinking about ceramic tiles that mimic the look of the sapi plate.... not armor plating.

@ STW I don't have time to respond to you now... I've got to go sleep... I'll respond sometime tomorrow.

irizavrima
08-14-09, 09:59 PM
Stone the weak, your taking this out of proportion...

hellitself
02-21-11, 04:51 PM
Damn we had some good freakin' time in the barracks! Some of the best parties I ever been too. I got caught with a gal in my BEQ at one point. There go my landin' gear for me skeeter wings again. ^

All our rooms had to be Identical 24/7. This was taken on a Saturday morning. I spose I had just put on my shoes, that's why the rack in messed up.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/7thMarine/USMC%20Pics/scan0012.jpg
wow big pic, sorry.


wow fast forward to 2010 , and we still have those exact beds , lamps and locker
the only thing different is the damn chair , you had leather ones