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Moderboater
12-14-06, 10:41 AM
I was told the "Moment of truth" is when the Drill Instructors ask people with certain medical problems to stand up...and if you do your sent home. Is this true? I heard this from a marine who just got back from San Diego a month or so ago.

aang
12-14-06, 02:00 PM
Let me remember..... Actually If I remember correctly it is your last chance to hand over any contraband and come forward with any information that you may have lied about or given misinformation regarding this includes legal, medical ect. They used to stick it all in this podium. People would hand over all types of stuff pipes, knives, and other items.

Moderboater
12-14-06, 02:25 PM
I was told by a marine a while back as long as you keep your mouth shut about your past medical histories, what you don't tell won't be found out. Is that true?

The1stSgt
12-14-06, 03:02 PM
That is not true.

I had a LCPL in my company that had a prior mental health diagnosis that he "hid" from the recruiters. Well, it came out some how, and he was discharges due to a fraudulent enlistment. He was not charge under the UCMJ, but he quickly disappeared.

It is always better to tell the truth and live in freedom, than lie and live with guilt and fear. How does the saying go, "The truth shall set you free".

From the Core Values, lying is a violation of integrity..... it's dishonest.

David Jameson
12-14-06, 03:08 PM
Your past medical records are confidentle(spelling)Doctors can"t give that info to anyone just because they ask .I assume you have a minor prolem you did not want to bring up.As long as you can perform your job,you should be OK--Then again ,you probly don"t want to get someones head blown off because of one of your medical shortcommings. Good luck

Camper51
12-14-06, 03:24 PM
Your past medical records are confidentle(spelling)Doctors can"t give that info to anyone just because they ask .I assume you have a minor prolem you did not want to bring up.As long as you can perform your job,you should be OK--Then again ,you probly don"t want to get someones head blown off because of one of your medical shortcommings. Good luck

Think again Mr. Jameson. The government can and will be able to get hold of those records. This is for obvious reasons and confidentiality (I do know how to spell it) has nothing to do with it since the government will keep the records confidential. The government has every right to know that it is getting a healthy, qualified body for its service. That is why the government will discharge you in a heartbeat if you lie to them (yes it is LYING) about your health, moral character, or criminal record.

Just think about it. If you were the boss and hired someone who made a certain claim, say about his education, that you found later to be a rather blatant embellishment. Would you not immediately fire this person, regardless of his ability to do the job??? I know I would. I do not ever want to work around some scum bucket who would lie to further his place in life. Why?? Because the scum bucket will LIE to his boss, to me, and to anyone else in his way...

Echo_Four_Bravo
12-14-06, 06:11 PM
Your past medical records are confidentle(spelling)Doctors can"t give that info to anyone just because they ask .I assume you have a minor prolem you did not want to bring up.As long as you can perform your job,you should be OK--Then again ,you probly don"t want to get someones head blown off because of one of your medical shortcommings. Good luck

Wrong answer. If you think the government can't get their hands on any of your records you will be disappointed. They may never find out, but if they do, you're in trouble.

The1stSgt
12-14-06, 08:04 PM
Think about this..... let's say you make it to boot camp and earn the title MARINE. Then you are assigned an MOS that requires you to have a clearance, usually secret or top secret. That will require a backgroud check on you that is more thorough than a Drill Instructor going through gear. Whatever you are trying to hide, they will find it.

Echo_Four_Bravo
12-14-06, 11:27 PM
Very true 1st Sgt. In MOS school there were a bunch of kids waiting because they couldn't be cleared. Some were getting new MOS's, others were waiting on legal action because they had falsified information to get into the Corps.

David Jameson
12-15-06, 07:40 AM
I stand corrected.My compliments on your spelling.Have a Good Christmas.

Marine84
12-15-06, 07:46 AM
Always - always - always tell the truth! We had one girl that made it alllllll the way through bootcamp and on the day we graduated they jerked her ass out that morning! She had lied about something and it got found out and, even though she had done an outstanding job in bootcamp, it didn't matter - all they cared about was she had lied about something.

NEVER HOLD BACK INFO - IT WILL COME BACK TO BITE YOU IN THE ASS!

Moderboater
12-15-06, 09:57 AM
I think lying to serve your country when you are now able to is ok. I think this because some of the Perment DQ's are crap, and most people have no control over them. I think as long as person is mentally and phycially able to fight for their country, and they make it through bootcamp, then they should be allowed to do so. However if I do get discharged for minor mishaps then thats on them, but I won't just roll over and die. I will try and arrange a meeting with the higher ups if needs be, maybe even the president if he is willing to listen to my case. Also I think lying at meps doesn't mean anything, because those people get paid to discharge you, which I think is crap, but be that as it may, you do what you have to do to serve your country, and sometimes telling the truth isn't the best method when you know its a perment dq and you then proceed to screw yourself out of every being able to earn the the title United States Marine.

maverickmarine
12-15-06, 10:08 AM
If you think lying to the Marine Corps is okay then you lack the very integrity it takes to not only become but to be a Marine. Whether you think something is crap or not doesn't matter. The DQ's are there for a reason and sure run it up the chain if that happens to you but you have no right to earn the title if you don't have the integrity or honor to live up to it.

Camper51
12-15-06, 10:42 AM
I think lying to serve your country when you are now able to is ok. I think this because some of the Perment DQ's are crap, and most people have no control over them. I think as long as person is mentally and phycially able to fight for their country, and they make it through bootcamp, then they should be allowed to do so. However if I do get discharged for minor mishaps then thats on them, but I won't just roll over and die. I will try and arrange a meeting with the higher ups if needs be, maybe even the president if he is willing to listen to my case. Also I think lying at meps doesn't mean anything, because those people get paid to discharge you, which I think is crap, but be that as it may, you do what you have to do to serve your country, and sometimes telling the truth isn't the best method when you know its a perment dq and you then proceed to screw yourself out of every being able to earn the the title United States Marine.

With this attitude I hope you never make it in MY Marine Corps. We do not need a bunch of idiots who believe that THEY are better than MY Marine Corps.

You have absolutely ZERO f*king integrity and morals. It would be wonderful if someone informed your recruiter of your actions so that appropriate actions can be taken before you stain my Corps with your crap.

The people at MEPS are NOT paid to discharge you. They are paid to make sure that every recruit entering our armed forces is in good enough physical and mental health to serve our country, regardless of service branch. If you think it is so meaningless to lie at MEPS then please do me a huge favor and lie through your teeth. When they catch you there are criminal penalties involved and I truly hope you get the maximum penalty...

Camper51
12-15-06, 10:49 AM
I think lying to serve your country when you are now able to is ok. I think this because some of the Perment DQ's are crap, and most people have no control over them. I think as long as person is mentally and phycially able to fight for their country, and they make it through bootcamp, then they should be allowed to do so. However if I do get discharged for minor mishaps then thats on them, but I won't just roll over and die. I will try and arrange a meeting with the higher ups if needs be, maybe even the president if he is willing to listen to my case. Also I think lying at meps doesn't mean anything, because those people get paid to discharge you, which I think is crap, but be that as it may, you do what you have to do to serve your country, and sometimes telling the truth isn't the best method when you know its a perment dq and you then proceed to screw yourself out of every being able to earn the the title United States Marine.

By the way, I called Sgt Chase, your recruiter. I believe he will be having a chat with your dumb little butt...

David Jameson
12-15-06, 11:04 AM
Did you think it was your place to rat this kid out ?.He had some questions.How is anyone suppose to talk about of thier concerns if they have people like yourself droping dimes because you don't like thier opinion.

Marine84
12-15-06, 11:21 AM
Did you think it was your place to rat this kid out ?.He had some questions.How is anyone suppose to talk about of thier concerns if they have people like yourself droping dimes because you don't like thier opinion.

He's doing it because it's the right thing (honorable) to do - why should any more of MY tax dollars be wasted to train some kid that's going to get kicked out on his ass for lieing anyway?

It's like Camper said, whether anybody thinks that the rules for getting through MEPS are crap or not is irrelevant as hell! Nobody asked me what I thought about them and I'm almost sure nobody will ask him. If HE can live with the fact that he got in because he lied about something - fine, so be it. He'll be the one that has to carry that lie with him for his entire enlistment. I fessed up about EVERYTHING (and I do mean EVERYTHING) before I went in and I'm glad I did - I KNOW I earned MY Title HONORABLY! It's NOT an honorable thing to do to lie about something so that you can make out like a bandit (get the Title).

This kid won't - he'll be lucky to make it through bootcamp. Even if he does make it through bootcamp - he won't last in the fleet.

Thanks Camper and I love ya my brother cause you are an HONORABLE man!

David Jameson
12-15-06, 11:25 AM
Does anyone recall people in own history (MARINE CORPS) that have lied about thier age to serve thier country in War time.Talk about Honor.

David Jameson
12-15-06, 11:28 AM
Anyone recall the name Roger young (WW2--US ARMY) Was he a scum bag?

Camper51
12-15-06, 11:31 AM
Did you think it was your place to rat this kid out ?.He had some questions.How is anyone suppose to talk about of thier concerns if they have people like yourself droping dimes because you don't like thier opinion.

QUESTIONS??? If he had questions that would have been one thing, however outright LYING or saying it is ok to LIE to get in the Corps means FRAUDULENT ENLISTMENT. What part of illegal enlistment don't you understand. Do you want me not to rat out the drunk driver on the street either, or the agressive driver who may cause serious injury, or maybe the petty thief who steals stuff from the local store??? Where do you draw a moral line at illegal/immoral behavior?

Too many of us let everythihng slide by saying it is none of our business. Well when someone steals from your local shopkeeper he must RAISE HIS PRICES to cover it. THat affects me because now I must pay more for my goods. Letting things slide is a sign of moral decay. Having the spine to stand up for what is right requires ethics and morals even if it might not be the popular thing to do.

Maybe this kid getting his butt chewed on by his recruiter will make him a better person and hopefully will make him into a good Marine.

Letting him slide will do nothing for him except let him know that it is ok to be a slimeball and that he can get away with whatever he wants to.

If the general consensus is that I did wrong then so be it I will just fade away.

I don't believe that is the case so in true Marine Corps fashion I say unto you "take a leap"

I not only stand by what I did, I feel it was the right thing to do. I know I have a clear conscience, and I will sleep well...

Marine84
12-15-06, 11:32 AM
I think lying to serve your country when you are now able to is ok. I think this because some of the Perment DQ's are crap, and most people have no control over them. I think as long as person is mentally and phycially able to fight for their country, and they make it through bootcamp, then they should be allowed to do so. However if I do get discharged for minor mishaps then thats on them, but I won't just roll over and die. I will try and arrange a meeting with the higher ups if needs be, maybe even the president if he is willing to listen to my case. Also I think lying at meps doesn't mean anything, because those people get paid to discharge you, which I think is crap, but be that as it may, you do what you have to do to serve your country, and sometimes telling the truth isn't the best method when you know its a perment dq and you then proceed to screw yourself out of every being able to earn the the title United States Marine.

So you would much rather earn the Title off of a lie? How do you think you're going to feel when it all comes out? You won't be able to flaunt that Title with a BCD attached to it but then, you would probably lie about the BCD. If you ever have to show that DD214, you won't be able to get away with it - it shows up. I don't think you have what it takes to be a Marine! If you do get in and get discharged it won't "be on them" - it will be on YOU doofus.

rb1651
12-15-06, 11:40 AM
Camper51, I fully agree with your actions. You may have saved the lives of some other Marines somewhere down the road because this wannabe is only looking out for himself. Being a Marine is about Honor, Dignity, Integrity, and Respect, all of which this person has failed to display.

Camper51
12-15-06, 11:44 AM
Does anyone recall people in own history (MARINE CORPS) that have lied about thier age to serve thier country in War time.Talk about Honor.

There are many heroes who lied about their age not only to get in the military but for other things, too. My Grandfather lied about his age to get a job at age 14 and he worked at a steel mill for 44 years until the day he died. He also NEVER missed a single day of work in those 44 years, not one. He was an honorable man, but he still lied. I cannot question his reasons nor would I question any hero who saved lives in the military after lying to get in and there were many who did. They served their country, many gave up their lives in doing so. However, at the time, had they been caught, they would have been summarily discharged.

That still doesn't make it right to lie, nothing does.

Camper51
12-15-06, 11:50 AM
Camper51, I fully agree with your actions. You may have saved the lives of some other Marines somewhere down the road because this wannabe is only looking out for himself. Being a Marine is about Honor, Dignity, Integrity, and Respect, all of which this person has failed to display.

This young man has displayed the ability to make a mistake, which I believe he did. That does not mean he cannot atone for that mistake and continue to show Honor, Dignity, Integrity and Respect.

I truly feel he will make a good Marine, however he is in the process of learning a huge lesson in life and I don't believe it will "ruin him", in fact I think it will make him a better person in the long run.

Sometimes life's lessons are not kind to us, but if we learn from them they can be tremendously uplifting...

Suffice to say that Moderboater and I have been talking in private.

The1stSgt
12-15-06, 01:48 PM
Moderboater,

My opinion is, you are a self-serving, lying, litttle piece of sh!t, that wants to use the Marine Corps to inflate your ego. This is not about you serving your country in time of war, this is about you WANTING something, and you are willing to lie to get it.

Your thinking is distorted (dishonest) if you can rationalize lying to gain what you want (the title MARINE).

Son, tell the truth or stay away from the Marine Corps. We don't want you.

I don't know what's in your past, but if it's bad enough you want to hide it, then you are better off remaining a civilian. I'm sure all Marines will agree.

Messenger
12-15-06, 02:15 PM
This is an interesting topic and it looks like we have no shortage of “Sea Going Lawyers” and or other so called experts offering less then accurate information and posting speculative opinion as fact.

The moment of truth is a means primarily to detect those with issues that otherwise were undetected during the pre-screening processes which sometimes do not detect certain behavioral, criminal and or medical histories that could possibly create a dangerous and or embarrassing situation for the recruit, other Marines and the Corps.

If someone passes all drug tests but has a history of drug use that was not previously disclosed the moment of truth is an event that allows both the recruit and the Corps the opportunity to address it. Normally in the matter of previous drug use ie; smoked a joint and didn’t disclose it prior to this moment a recruit will have a drug waiver added to his /her SRB (service record book). *** NOTE; the Marines has had many policy changes regarding drug use over the last thirty years. Twenty years ago when I joined the Corps smoking dope equaled the equivalent of a slap on the hand and the Marine would have to take a two weeks of drug counseling while a few years after I joined the new policy meant NJP, loss of pay and rank and time and in some cases time in the brig and even discharge.

As far as medical issues they are mostly concerned with disqualifying histories. They don’t care if you forgot to mention that you broke your little toe when you were five or that you had a cold when you were fifteen unless it is possible that it could effect your ability to perform your duties. They are making sure that you have all of the organs that your suppose to have and no metal pins or plates that could set off alarms or explosives and other important medical information that would otherwise disqualify you.

Criminal history, unpaid fines / tickets and warrants will defiantly show up during any security screening for special security clearances but normal pre-screening for enlistment is not as exacting as it is for security clearances and something’s are overlooked. There is over 3000 county’s in the USA and it is not reasonably possible to run a background check in every county in the USA just for enlistment so normally only county’s surrounding locations the person was known to live and work in are contacted for the initial background investigation.

In the cases of “The Federal Witness Protection Program” it is mandatory that you contact your case worker and will very likely not be able to apply to the Marines under your assumed identity but this would be between you and your case worker. In the event of expunged records that were sealed due to criminal records of minors and or events that an active gag order is in place you are advised to first seek legal council as to what you are legally obligated and or allowed to disclose.

Amnesty is offered near the same time as the moment of truth and this is the point that you will be able to surrender contraband with out inquire. This is primarily so you can get rid of any lighters, tobacco products knifes ect.

Do yourself a favor and make sure your records and legal obligations are taken care of long before you ever go to boot camp and remember that Honesty, Honor and Integrity are just three of the things that makes a Marine one of the finest people in the world.

On a side note and in closing you should know that it’s the FBI that investigates backgrounds for all military branches and they do run random background investigations. If you have a skeleton in your closet they will find it eventually.

Semper Fi

Worsham
12-15-06, 02:59 PM
Can't tell you how angry I was reading that kids post! How dare he?!? I had the phone in my hand when I saw that someone else had already taken the liberty. He should not be allowed back in these forums for a while I think.

Camper51
12-15-06, 03:11 PM
Can't tell you how angry I was reading that kids post! How dare he?!? I had the phone in my hand when I saw that someone else had already taken the liberty. He should not be allowed back in these forums for a while I think.

I disagree with you. Let his actions determine his status. If he is truly honorable he will do the right thing. If not it is not our shame...

Worsham
12-15-06, 03:20 PM
We will agree to disagree on this one as you are working with inside information I am not privy to . All I have to go on is the impression put forth by his statements, which do not speak well for his character. However, let's hope you're right and that he has learned his lesson in integrity.

Camper51
12-15-06, 04:21 PM
We will agree to disagree on this one as you are working with inside information I am not privy to . All I have to go on is the impression put forth by his statements, which do not speak well for his character. However, let's hope you're right and that he has learned his lesson in integrity.

Anyone can make an error in judgement, how they handle it is what truly shows their character.

He and I have had discussions but those have no bearing on what I say.

What he says out here is what makes the difference, not only to me but to all of us. Those words are what will truly decide how we feel. I agree that what I have seen out here is not food for thought and I am in complete agreement with you on that.

Suffice to say he was not pleased with my actions, however I think he understands me a bit better now. I give him a lot of credit for speaking directly with me. He could have handled it differently but I think he has done the right thing so far, by speaking privately with the person who pee'd on his parade. Lets just see what happens from here...

yellowwing
12-15-06, 04:41 PM
Suffice to say he was not pleased with my actions, however I think he understands me a bit better now. I give him a lot of credit for speaking directly with me. He could have handled it differently but I think he has done the right thing so far, by speaking privately with the person who pee'd on his parade. Lets just see what happens from here...
Good to hear! Leatherneck is a place where we prepare kids to be the best recruits they can be. We've had more than our fair share of Company Honor Men, Guides, and Squad Leaders come from here. And we gladly do it passing on the lessons and leadership that were freely given to us.

Semper Fi :usmc:

Marine84
12-15-06, 08:19 PM
I'll take your word Camper................

Sgt Leprechaun
12-16-06, 07:56 AM
Camper, Id've done the exact same thing you did. Integrity isn't something you can sell on the cheap, and if you do, it's your own face you have to see in the mirror every-single-day.

Even my old and semi-broken hindquarters, trying to get back into the USMCR, had to give up all the injuries I've had over the years. I didn't like it, because some of them have to be waivered, but, dammit, that's what's required.

I'm glad you and this lad had some private conversations. He'll dang sure be a better man for it, even if it means he can't be a Marine. Society as a whole has become so permissive, somebody, or in this case, something (our Corps) has to stand for something. Those Core values aren't just writin on the wall..they damn well MEAN something.

v/r

Camper51
12-16-06, 10:33 AM
Well, Moderboater still needs to come back in here and say his piece. We will see what he says. Only then will we know if he is capable of earning our backing.

I believe he has a poolee function today so I am sure his recruiter will have a little heart to heart with him.

I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now, but only until he responds to us in here...

Moderboater
12-16-06, 03:47 PM
Marines, I stand corrected on my statement, I understand now why a person should not lie about anything to enlist in the Marine Corp. I see now where my opinion was wrong and I stand corrected. I would like to thank you all for teaching me that lesson now, instead of later down the road. I will not let any of you down again...my apologies for doing so in the first place.

The1stSgt
12-17-06, 10:39 AM
Moderboater,

Excellent! Now, "carry on".

matrix
12-17-06, 09:28 PM
Easy there little one. That attitude you have there (WILL) Get you into alot of (BIG) trouble. That crap might cut it in other branches. But not in The Marine corps...... I've seen alot of young men just like you while on recruiting duty. All of them ready to fight and die for their country. Not all were able to do so because of a medical reason or a criminal past to bad to obtain a waiver for. Whats is this crap you keep spilling out your pie whole about (You think it would be ok to lie to your recruitor and to meps about a medical problem. You believe you would not get into trouble...(WRONGE THINKING)
To lie to your recruitor is concidered Fraudualenlistment and is punishable upto 7 years imprisonment and fines upto 10.000 dollars.If that is not enough to make you think than ponder this if you will---- If this is what I will get when I lie to a recruitor what will I get If I lie to His Co at meps. If your recruitor does not nail your little azz to the wall you can rest a sure his Co dam sure will. No buts about it.Momy and daddy will not be able to do anything about it.. So save them and yourself the embarrsaement and (TELL THE TRUTH)period......... Your recruitor is there to aid you in the process of joining the Marines. But you have to be truthful and up front with him/her about any problem that you have. He may be able to obtain waiver. Right about now you should be thinking of a good excuse to tell your recruitor on why you feel that you have the right to bad mouth his career and his lifes goals. Sounds to me that you have alot of growing up to do... Do the world a favour stay home with mommy and daddy. Go to college get a degree move on with your life and leave the fighting for your freedom to the grown up's...;) :evilgrin: :usmc: