Registration for the draft: include women?

[BARboy04]

For my high school English class debate, I need public opinion on whether or not women should have to register for the draft. So please take the time and seriously think of your response. Thanks for your contribution.

Semper Fi,
BARboy04

[Barrio_rat]

There is no draft. So, since men don't sign up for a draft, neither should women.

However, men are required to sign up for Selective Service (a more PC name for emergency draft) and, I believe, women should also sign up for it. The military is one of the few places where women get paid equally for doing the same job as their male counterparts - they should also be required to give as much.

[firstsgtmike]

NO!

1. I'm not convinced that a draft is necessary. I've heard the arguments for a draft. However simply having registration without drafting is a waste of time and money. Since the services are attaining quota without a draft, drafting X number of people will mean that non-drafted enlistees would have to be turned away.

2. Women represent a small percentage of the the military. See item #1.

3. I have read the proposal for Compulsary Military Training for All. Once the military requirements are satisfied, the rest would be assigned public service work. Somebody better check the numbers, and the cost, and the additional government bureaurocracy that would be required to implement it.

4. I don't envision another protracted war effort such as Vietnam, or Korea, or WWII. Desert Storm was in-and-out. There was no time to draft and train participants. I see all future conflicts being essentially the same.


5. Draft registration is a useless paper exercise. Why bring women into it? To be PC someone is going to demand that you draft the same number of women as you do men. The next logical step would be that the registrants have numbers, and sex not specified. "All those born on such and such date will report for induction". And THEN the fun starts.

Add valid numbers to this, and not only will you have your debate notes, if you can present them correctly, you will win.



You're welcome.

[USMC-FO]

I think as long as there is a Selective Service Law in effect then young women ought to also be signed up too. However IF an actual draft were to take place then some selectivity needs to be applied between the sexes because I absolutely believe women ought not to be placed in a combat situation--and not because they don't fight as well--but rather because of the impact their presence adds to the fighting units on the line.

That being said, however, Top has made the single most congent arguement against the draft I have ever seen in writing relative to SS act and or the draft and its applicability in today's world.

My concern with the all volunteer forces we have today is that I belive they tend to draw from the more stressed segments of our society--this is a gut feeling only, I don't have figures to back up my feeling. I am concerned that over time we run the serious risk, in my view, of a serious scism in our society when our wealthy and privilaged citizens are not spending any time in the dirt with many of the other citizens in our society.

There you go, my opinion.

[firstsgtmike]

USMC-FO

I agree with your comment "My concern..."

I read someplace that in an Ivy League College during WWII, 90% ended up in the military. In 2000, ONLY 3 chose the military.

You made a valid point. I haven't figured out what can be done about it.

A draft fills in the gaps after volunteers. You cannot selectively draft Ivy League college students.

Your point is a valid concern. I agree with it. Now, If you want to be a hero, come up with an answer!

Semper Fi

[usmc85204]

First I have to state that I disagree with any draft at all. The draft gives the government too large a military . The larger it is the more places they find to use it....
If a draft is unavoidable , I cannot see drafting women. I can't support this way of thinking anyother way than to say. Women are different. I know we are now into equal rights and being equal in all things.but even with being equal I still think of women as different than men. It is bad enough that we have to young men to fight and die in wars that I sometimes see no reason for. Good luck in class.

[mrbsox]

2 more cents worth...

To 'DRAFT' does NOT mean to draft into Front line Infantry units. Support units will also have to be filled IF.... BIG IF... it ever comes to that.

Sign up ... YES. A persons patriotic duty doesn't end just because they have 'bumps' on their chest.

Well... OK, maybe 1 cent. :D

[Barndog]

OK -

MY firm no BS stance. Nothing about infantry units, Nothing about women and the sociological perspective.. Read the article. Do the research for yourself.
This is the perspective which spurned me to join the Marine Corps. The Honor of which my Father served in Korea in the Marine Corps. He left it for me to earn. And I did. I did it for the Honor of the people before me. It aint just a job.

More than .02 worth, let me tell you. Like a few Hundred Bucks Worth of reading in perspective alone.

Semper Fidelis

[Barndog]

Stupid thing didnt paste LOL HERE IS THE LINK !!!!

Semper FI

Barndog


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0111.moskos.glastris.html

[greensideout]

How long must we dance around the "PC".
Women have no place in the combat arms.

If there were a draft, women should not be drafted!
Men are to go to war, women are to be in a supportive role.
I believe that enough women will volunteer to fill a support unit so that men can enter into combat.

The question was, should women be included in the draft.
Of course not!
The difference between men and women is a lot more then physical, it includes the brain and natural instinct.

Childhood studies have proven that girls nurture and boys attack.
I rest my case.

(Before you Women Marines jump my bones, think about it. Are you going to get up in the morning and hump an M-60 in the boondocks? No, you are going to fill a supportive roll in many other fields. To that I say thank you! You are just as important in the combat readiness of a unit as anyone. We each have a mission. If it's done well by all we shall surely win the battles.)

[leroy8541]

I don't think we need a draft period. It will bring down the morale of the all volunteer corp we have today. I wouldn't wan to fight beside somebody that did give his own word to be there! One marine talkin trash like, I don't belong here is infectious to other Marines. and for women maybe if we need a nurse corp or somthing like that.

[JChristin]

Equal Right. Equal Pay. Equal Responsibities.

Just like "Greensideout" and a few other lesser breeds have stated, there is a difference between men and women. Perhaps that is why war's fought in the past were conducted in the manner they were and so many were killed.

I am just as capable as any male Marine to handle myself in a combat situation. Now, in the event some male Marine decides he finds some type of attraction while we are fighting the enemy, then it is he who has the problem. Afterall, who could possibly feel a bit "attractive" during a fighting engagement. But then again, it seems they always try to lay the responsibility on the woman.

If I were to "cite" a study or studies, then I would cite the name, author, title and source reference number. Afterall, if one requires to be taken seriously, then be serious. "**** Poor Planning Results in **** Poor Performance."

Just as not all men are created equal, neither are all women created equal. I have encountered many men I wouldn't want to see on any front lines, let alone the supportive lines. The same goes for women. Some people can take the "heat" while others cannot. I would only want those who can take the pressure, live with the stress, and perform their duties 210%!

to bad I'm a vet these day. But what I would give anything to fullfill my duties as any other Marine if called upon to do so.

Semper Fi

[Joyce]

I feel the same way as Greensideout and JChristin. As a woman who was told in boot camp we were there to "free a man to fight" it was our job, and duty. I can't help my gender but I can help in any way I can.

Some people can do the job, some can't. No matter if they are men or women. I see that everyday in the civilian work force.

Semper Fi

[leroy8541]

I don't think to many people male or female are going to have time "during" combat to be attracted to anything except putting something between them and incoming. but think of this, war is 99% boredom 1% pure terror. its not the 1% that would be a problem if women were in the field it would be the 99%. I've been there! Done that! Believe me there would be major problems!! As advanced as our military is,grunts still use slit trenches whole platoons take showers together while being sprayed down by big water trucks in the open, firefights are the least of combat worries. in todays highspeed attacks you may get 2 days in front of your supply so you have to carry it withyou there are no tents no showers no heads no privacy at all and after 6 months camels and donkeys become attractive!!

[Barndog]

Anyone even bother to read the link I provided?

Or, is this just an opinion column? Folks, I enjoy and openly display my opinion also. I enjoy reading other's opinions too.

Heck, I pretty much showed you all recently what a man struggling with Rheumatoid Arthritis and a ADHD mind at the breaking point can do when pushed at the very limits.

It's a good thing to honestly and openly convey one's true feelings and opinion. But, the time is here and now for a draft. And I've heard the speeches, the arguments in the House, Rep Rangel on Cspan, etc - Read the Article - for your own good.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0111.moskos.glastris.html

Semper Fidelis

[firstsgtmike]

Barndog,

I took your admonition to heart. I read the linked article. Then I went searching for facts and figures that would either support or refute various statements.

I ran smack into my problems again:

1. I really don't know how to properly find what I am lookin for on the internet.

2. Being without responsibilities and direction for so many years, I've become something of a scatterbrain. I live for the moment. When something catches my attention, I say "That's interesting" and I follow it.

As a result, I spent three hours seaching on the internet, couldn't find what I was looking for, but I had a GREAT time.

I was looking for recruiting statistics to see how the all-volunteer military was doing in meeting manpower objectives. I couldn't find anything that was up-to date.

I DID find some interesting DOD reports. The Marine Corps came out smelling like a rose, the other services were developing problems.

There were a couple of problems that were discussed in the reports, based on fact, not opinion.

DOWNSIZING: Every year since Vietnam, the authorized manpower level for the various services has dropped. The number of recruits was lowered each year. The number of careerists was reduced through attrition. (100 retired, 50 promoted to take their place)

My opinion: If the "upsizing" is too rapid, such as in WWII, a lot of inexperienced,(unqualified) people are going to be promoted into the NCO, SNCO, and officer ranks.

INCOMPLETE Enlistments. A MAJOR problem exists that an average of 30% do not complete their first enlistments, with the greatest number washed out of boot camp or their first six months of service.

That problem was recognized and steps are being taken to remedy it.

My opinion. If 30% of motivated volunteers wash out, what will be the rate for conscripts?

They are having a problem with members of the Reserves and National Guard because deployment is interfering with their civilian and family lives. And these guys are ALL volunteers.

I would like to see a "factual" report on numbers. (That's what I was looking for.)

1. How sucessful is recruiting?
2. How many recruits are required for each coming year?
3. How many people will be signing up for the draft pool?
4. What is the anticipated rate of physical, mental, and moral rejects.
5. Why is a "draft" required to man the security and public service jobs as recommended by your referenced article?
6. What is universal registration going to cost.
7. Is it cost effective?
8. Where is the money coming from?

I agree with you, opinions raise as many questions as they seem to answer. I wasn't able to find the answers. But, they are out there, someplace.

But that's just MY opinion.

Semper Fi

[greensideout]

JChristin,

Lesser Breed?

Pis* Poor Performance?

I don't think we've met. Such a strong judgement! LMAO!

The Corps as I see it, sure did instill confidence in you. I like that!

Keep the streets "clean" up there in Portland. It's one of my and my wife's favorite places to visit.

Semper Fi

[JChristin]

Originally posted by greensideout
JChristin,

Lesser Breed?

Pis* Poor Performance?

I don't think we've met. Such a strong judgement! LMAO!

The Corps as I see it, sure did instill confidence in you. I like that!

Keep the streets "clean" up there in Portland. It's one of my and my wife's favorite places to visit.

Semper Fi

Thanks Greensideout. My Senior Drill Instructor, SSGT. Price is responsible for the sense of self-confidence I hold today. If she ever logs onto this site and see's her name, I want her to know the powerful positive influence she had on this womans life. She is my nominee for "Woman of the Century." :marine:

Today, I took another police officer exam. Third one in two weeks. The last two exams I sat side-by-side a male cousin who is an active Marine (Reserves) and today, I sat next to him again at another police officer exam. This time, there was another Woman Marine, plus three other Marines. Like the sisterhood and brotherhood we have, we all sat together taking the exam. Out of about 225 people in that room, isn't it amazing how "water seeks its own level," or how "birds of a feather flock together." We all share a common bond, one only WE can appreciate.

If we are all hired as police officers, I believe that any of us would be able to work side-by-side, watching each others back in any situation that may require the use of deadly force. Uhmmmmm. kinda like in War.

Let's think about that for a moment. If as police officers, watching our partners back, it's the same principle as in a fox hole. But in todays "civil" society, much like any other gurilla warfare situation. If one of them is confident to work with me in that situation, as a woman law enforcement officer, then the same principle "should" apply in a war like situation. I am just as capable as any man.

When in Portland, I'd enjoy meeting you and your wife. Portland is the greatest city to live. I'm was raised here, so I have "web" feet and all.

semper fi

[Barndog]

Research on the internet can be a waste of time or highly rewarding.

Dependent upon what you are researching (looking) for, most of your best bets are in Government archives - or Educational links. Those will provide you the best raw-data type information. Demographics, age, financial, business by size and type, and service, location of income by category, etc etc. Market Research and so on, usually must be paid for.

* Keep in mind the 'No Child Left Behind Act' signed last year - made that all children from Grade 10 and up, are now sent home with a release form, to be signed by parents, that release information from schools to recruiters. If you didn't know - you better start.*

Keep in mind - when doing - hypothetically speaking- pharmeceutical drug research (because you just got a new prescription, and have serious questions before you take it - and ya darn well better) DO NOT GO TO THE NAME ON THE LABEL.
Try Mayo Clinic or John's Hopkin's first. If you search the Brand name of the medication, you will find the MANUFACTURERS INFO ONLY - keeping in mind- this is usually skewed, or has a "built in bias" - to provide only the best information as a vehicle for the highest margin of profit (via selective marketing) for the company. ( limited to what they want you, the consumer to know - ie: Celebrex, Paxil, etc)

If you are still not sure, and have a local Community College or Library in your area, stop by and ask. They'll be glad to help you out. If they can't still.............. drop me a PM or EMAIL.

I'd be glad to assist. I learned more from research than from the $30k I paid for(still) that piece of paper that sez I got me a college edumakatien. And this was only like, $1500 bux........
With the kick- a$$ speaker system too!!!

Semper Fidelis

[greybeard]

OK Barndog-I read it. Too much cost involved for short term service in my eyes.
And a choice of what type service you are going to perform? The people right now who choose not to serve will undoubtedly also choose to serve homeland security or Americorps type stuff. Then you would have the same allegations of Americas less fortunate having to bear the brunt of actual combat, that you hear now and that we heard during VietNam.

And what would it do to a unit like the Corps? We've survived over the centuries because we are ALL riflemen first. We'll end up with "real Marines or even soldiers" and then there will be the ones who specifically chose rear echelon or stateside support. I think that will be devisive in the medium to long run.

I dunno............
Lemme get some coffee, re-read the thing & I'll post more later.
It's definitely a different approach.

[leroy8541]

you cannot compare wartime duties or combat to being a "police officer " a police officer goes home to a nice home after his or her 8 hours on the beat cooks dinner kisses the kids and does the spouse afterwards crawls in a nice hot shower all by his or herself then off to a nice comfy bed!
in the grunts you spend six months living in a hole in the ground with no showers no bed doing 8 on 8 off 24-7 behind a machine gun m-16 whatever your T-O weapon is after your 8 hours you crawl back intothe back of the hole curl up under your poncho liner and try to grab some z's clean your weapon eat cold chow and dream about one of these days going home and doing the spouse. all this waiting for the word to move out. by the time the actual combat starts you are ready to kill your whole squad or yourself thats why the gulf war was so quick we were ready to kill something because everyone was so ****ed off at everything that moved or didn't move they were actually losing mental cohesion. I watched best bros beat each other within an inch of their life for stupid stuff. and you as a woman want to do thatwhen you started pmsing and getting *****y because of woman pains your best bro might just decide to thrash you to within an inch of your life does anyone here agree with men beating on women? put them in a grunt platoon let them serve side by side with their "brothers" . ever see 5 guys sitting out on a berm masturbating? put women in the grunts you won't.
maybe this, a company of W.M. grunts hahahahaha very funny!!ruck sack aren't big enough to carry all the neccesities they need for personal hygeine! It might be a good idea all that bichin would cause the iraqi army to commit suicide!!
I KNOW i'M A JERK AND THAT IS MY 2 CENTS WORTH!

[JChristin]

Leroy8541 wrote: "ever see 5 guys sitting out on a berm masturbating? "

I thought homosexuality wasn't looked upon with any great favor in the United State Marine Corps?

Now I understand why leroy doesn't favor women serving on the front lines. We'll take away his fun time with all the guys!

As for any guys trying to "beat" this woman Marine: At my height, and my body building skills, well, let's just say I'd send whatever Marine tried to slam me down to the ground up and over to the other side of heaven in less than one quarter of a quarter of a heartbeat. His outlook on life would change, and in a hurry. He'd be crawling on the ground and begging forgiveness from every Woman Marine who had ever served, was serving, and will ever serve in the finest military branch there ever was and ever will be. In other words, he would experience a "spiritual" awakening.

And to think that I moved from the modeling industry and into the Marine Corps. The first place taught me how to walk in heels and the other in boots. So I guess I'd be looking good while kickening some booty on the front lines! OOH RAH!

I'm so very glad that those with the outlook of the lessor breed who appear worried about the personal hygene of the "fewer and the prouder,' are in the minority.

Semper Fi

[firstsgtmike]

Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw:

51% sweetheart, 49% b*itch, Don't push me.

[wrbones]

Play nice boys and girls.

Yer gettin off the subject a bit.

Take the rest behind the barracks, i.e. PM's and emails. When ya get done thrashin each other have a beer and get it sorted out. Anyone goes to sick bay, they both get busted! :D

[thedrifter]

Opinions Change Over Draft
Associated Press
February 2, 2003


NEW YORK - During the Vietnam War, presidents and the Pentagon defended the draft, while the peace movement assailed it. As America edges toward a possible new war, roles have reversed.

Backed by other opponents of a war with Iraq, Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., has proposed that the draft - shelved since 1973 - be reinstated in the name of "shared sacrifice."
The Pentagon disagrees, insisting that today's all-volunteer forces are more efficient and professional than conscripts.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has gone further, asserting at a news conference that draftees added "no value, no advantage" to the military because they served for such brief periods. After members of Congress and veterans groups protested, Rumsfeld apologized, but made clear he opposes a return to conscription.

Still, Rangel's proposal - though unlikely to win passage - has revived a dormant national debate about the concept of mandatory national service. It is a discussion that creates unusual allies and goes to the heart of American citizenship.

While the Pentagon and the Bush administration support an all-volunteer military, a broad constituency favors some type of universal national service, either military duty or a civilian alternative.

"The problem with the all-volunteer force is that the children of America's elite are not serving," said Charles Moskos, a Northwestern University sociologist who studies military issues. "It's not good for the military, and it's not good for the nation."

Moskos has proposed a three-tiered draft - specifically designed to include college graduates - with the choice to serve with the armed forces, a homeland security agency such as the Border Patrol, or a public service organization such as the Peace Corps.

On college campuses, opinions about the draft are deeply divided.

"I don't object to the argument that there's a socio-economic bias in the military, but remedying that with a draft is ridiculous," said University of Virginia sophomore Chris Wilson. "I would protest every step of the way."

At the University of Oregon, law student Philip Huang suggested in a campus newspaper column in October that a draft would make U.S. leaders more judicious about launching war.

"You would have a different army under a draft, more of a cross-section politically and racially," Huang said.

In a survey of 1,200 undergraduates nationwide, conducted last fall by Harvard University's Institute of Politics, 67 percent opposed a return of the draft. The poll's margin of error was 2.8 percent.

The machinery for reinstating the draft is in place even now, thanks to the Selective Service System, which requires American males to register within 30 days of their 18th birthdays.

A renewed draft would differ from the Vietnam War draft in at least one important respect. Under revised Selective Service procedures, college students receiving a draft notice could defer only until the semester ended; in the Vietnam era, they could avoid service as long as they pursued a degree.

There could be other changes, as well. Some feminists object to the male-only aspect of draft registration; a suit was filed Jan. 9 by five Massachusetts students saying the current law amounts to gender-based discrimination.

"It's so ingrained in our society that this is the way it is," said plaintiff Nicole Foley, 17. "Boys, when there's a war, go off to war, and the girls wait home and get the letters."

Some gay-rights activists and military experts advocate another change - extending the draft to openly gay men. This proposal has been endorsed by Moskos, who helped develop the "don't ask, don't tell" policy that lets gay and lesbian soldiers serve if they keep their sexual orientation private and don't engage in homosexual acts.

"We now have about 1,200 people a year getting out of the military with an honorable discharge by saying they're gay," Moskos said. "In a draft, that would become such a common loophole, it wouldn't work." The best way to block that option is to include gays in the draft, he said.

Rangel, a liberal from Harlem, made it no secret that his restore-the-draft proposal was intended to slow the march toward war with Iraq - though he intends to push his idea, however that conflict turns out.

"I've been criticized by some of the CEOs of the country for not supporting the president," Rangel said. "When I ask them, 'Would you feel the same if it was your kid being placed in harm's way?' they hem and they haw."

The American Legion, the nation's largest veterans group, welcomed the debate and is urging Congress to hold hearings on how best to meet long-term military personnel needs.

"With the all-volunteer force doing such a fine job, it might to be difficult to make the case for reinstating the draft," said Legion spokesman Steve Thomas. "But the Legion is a long-standing supporter of the principal of universal military training."


Sempers,

Roger

[greensideout]

The fact is, we no longer have an "All Volunteer" military.

When the Marine Corps and the Army stopped all exit from their units it then became a draft per se.

If they were ready to retire or had served their enlistment the choice of volunteering to continue to serve was not an option, they were "Drafted"!

My take, the draft has begun!

[leroy8541]

o.k I give first rounds on me in the slop shute or the boxing ring. i give.

[firstsgtmike]

I've been doing some extensive research on this call to reinstate the draft. Many, many groups are in favor of it, as long as they are incuded in the draft, to make the military Politically Correct and more representative of American Society.

The groups that have received the most attention are women, gays, and Ivy League college students.

HOWEVER, they are not the only ones under-represented in the U.S. military. Other groups are becoming more and more vocal in their demands to be included in a draft in accordence with their proportionate representation in the general population. The military should be truly representative of the society from which it is drawn.

WITH THAT IN MIND, I can foresee a 20 page questionaire to be completed upon registering for the draft. 1,000 plus items to assist in accurate classification.

I CAN SEE IT NOW. The head of the Selective Service System telling his staff that the draft requirements for the month ar going to be relatively simple to achieve. Except there are some requirements to be filled that have the potential to cause the computer to crash.

1. A 24 year old lesbian whose father is an illegal immigrant from Poland, whose mother is Shoshone indian, living in Alabama, left handed, wears glasses, three years of college, family income of $100,000-$149,000 per year.

2. A convicted felom, Ivy League college graduate, previous incarceration 3-5 years, height, not more than 39 inches, from South Dakota, income not considered.

3. A 42 year old gay paraplegic, non-smoker, vegitarian. Othere requirements will be waived.

Now, let's get to work.
---------------------
I can picture the exemption excuses at the induction center, because the individual's profile has changed and they failed to notify the board.

1. I lost/found a job.

2. I entered college/got thrown out of college/changed colleges.

3. My conviction was overturned and my records sealed.

4. I found out I'm not gay, I'm bi-sexual.

5. I had lazer surgery, I don't wear glasses anymore.

6. My acne is cured.

7. I'm no longer a vegetarian. I work at KFC.

8. I changed religions. I'm now a satanist.

9. I moved from California to Rhode Island.

10. I had a sex change.

11. My parents got married.

12. I'm no longer a conscientious objector. I beat the multiple murder charge by pleading temporary insanity.

13. I'm not white/brown/red/yellow/black anymore. I had a color change ala Michael Jackson.
----------------

(They didn't beat the draft, they were all inducted to fill quotas in their new categories.) (Just before the computer crashed.)

[JChristin]

Originally posted by leroy8541
o.k I give first rounds on me in the slop shute or the boxing ring. i give.

Leroy is both a gentleman and a well-mannered Marine. :marine:


Semper Fi

[JChristin]

The finest military organization in all the world and all of time is the one that snarrels at change. Afterall, if it isn't broke, why fix it! However, the Marine Corps isn't broke, but it has proven down thru history that it too can bend to the change of wind.

One of the top attraction of joing the Marine Corps to me was the "macho" or "do or die" sense of strength of character. Having worked in the modeling industry since I was a kid, I knew there was more to me as a human than just a nice picture. I thrived playing war games in the forest of the pacific northwest with my friends. The sense of disclipine a Marine demonstrates in their bearing - that was an attraction to me. The molding and shaping of one's character via grueling and hard work - that was an attraction to me. The ability to prove I was just as equal to the other women - and men - in the toughest military organization, that was an attraction to me. Know what? I did it!

However, there was discrimination. I was told that I may be good enough, as well as just as qualified to partake in the vigors of war, but since I was a "woman" I couldn't serve in the capacity I was initially trainned to do. I was willing to accept not only the wonderful glories that come along with the title, "Marine," but I also wished to accept ALL the hard work and "bad" stuff that other Marines may have to suffer as well. This was denied me. That isn't right.

The Marine Corps will change. The next generations will effect that change. Just not in the "draft," should and when one will become operational again, but in the front lines as well. The Marine Corps is built upon the strong moral shoulder of great men and women who share one title, "United States Marine." One day, the division of labor will not be focused upon one's gender, but upon the ability, strength, training, and character of that one individual.

Semper Fi

[leroy8541]

I agree with greenside with the draft being commenced already, with frozen eas.
how exactly does the draft work? Do they pick a bunch of random numbers give them medical physical weed out the unfit then put them in open contract for use wherever they need them? or do they use the asvab and use them where they will perform the best?

[firstsgtmike]

Leroy,

I started to put together a heavy answer, and realized how little I remembered. Someone else will come along to do it better than I can.

Short answer. Physicals weed out the unfit. The mental test, the AFQT (Armed Forces Qualification Test) was like an IQ test. Only three results were considered, Retarded, Dull, or Acceptable.

Sometimes, the brighter dulls could obtain a waiver and be permitted to enlist.

ASAB had nothing to do with it at this point. It was given in boot camp. Draftees went in under an open contract, and since they were only for two years, they were limited in the amount of schooling they would receive, and thus their job level.

I think that's enough to answer your question. If you want to go deeper, it will take more than I know off the top of my head. Then it's homework time. (For you, NOT for me.)

Semper Fi

[wrbones]

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4003

but that's all I know for sure.

[leroy8541]

that answers my question, thanks guys. better to enlist and get what you want i guess, or get drafted and end up in the air wing.lol just kidding

[BARboy04]

thanks for spending the time to reply to my quandry. my debate is over and i have won,thanks again.

[greensideout]

An interesting look back at a year ago when we discussed the possable draft and if women should be included.

[eddief]

The only draft I support is Miller Genuine Draft.

[ivalis]

here is how the draft works.

rich boys like Bush & Quayle get a cush job in the national guard, or, like Cheney & Bill Bennet get to stay in school forever.

clever guys like Clinton get in the guard & back out cause they ended up w/ a high (good) lottery number.

Others, like Rush, get some medical con going (sore ass if i remember correctly).

the chumps get drafted.

[Old Marine]

I agree with greensideout. Women should not be placed in a combat area. There are a lot of stateside billets that they can fill and leave the combat to the men.

[Matt Starbuck]

I say no to women in the draft. ---Too many problems.

1) Political correctness will ruin our country and our Corps!
2)War/Combat is serious!

(If it can't be proven in peacetime, don't implement it!)

[THATFEMALE]

I disagree with you Gunny and Matt. I fully support Woman in combat. I mean if the Woman is good to go and has her s**t togther, why not? Things have happen in the past to mess it up for the future but I think we should give it a shot. Maybe not in the Grunt field just yet but somewhere close by. Cpl Leroy was right? Who seriously has time to think about other things while in Combat? So I think those who can, should have to register for the draft. Provided they pass bootcamp. Semper FI. :banana:

[hrscowboy]

nope no women in combat!!!! let the women fill the billets stateside but leave the combat to the men.. we dont need no prefume smellin, PMSing wildthing in combat with us warriors all it would be is a distraction...

[Patty_McOorah]

I thought that this was a question about if women should be included in the military draft or not. Not a question if women should or should not be allowed to serve in the combat arms. I do believe that they should be included to sign up for the draft, becuase as mentioned before there are a lot of logistical and administrative billets available for them. As for the females in combat, there is just too many negatives that would come along with that. Like Leroy put so wonderfully, "after a while camels and donkeys start to look good." This is where you would get a lot of sexual harrasment/rape cases. There is no time to worry about that stuff while out in a combat environment. I believe that women already play a very important role in the Marine Corps of today, and will continue to in the future, just not in the combat arms.

[Matt Starbuck]

Thatfemale, no offense to any WM's, past or present.

My opinion remains, No women in the draft and no women in combat MOS's.

No amount of political correctness can change the fact that the Marine Corps tradition/History works. Can you imagine for one second, women storming the beaches on Iwo? At the Frozen Chosin? or Belleau Wood? It didn't happen... That's not to say that the support MOS's aren't critical to the mission.

I do however respect your opinion, it just doesn't match the Marine Corps opinion or mine....