Our options in Iraq

[SuNmAN]

I thought we won the war but are currently loosing the peace. Or, are the soonies kicking the camel dung out of the shee-its? Looks like un-Civil war to me.

Staff Sergeant - its safe to say we won the first war with ease but are quickly losing the second

Our forces quickly rolled over Saddam Hussein's conventional army with minimal losses. We won the war against Saddam Hussein.

However, our men are spread too thin and were ill prepared to fight a 4th generation, insurgency type war.


All the enemy has to do is:

1. Kill Americans
2. Kill civilians
3. Create fear, chaos and turmoil

which would lead to:

1. Bad Press for the United States Government
2. Loss of confidence in the United States and the newly elected Iraqi government
3. Destabilization of the new Iraqi government

which then would lead to:

1. Massive Discontent within the American population
2. Calls for withdrawal of US troops

which then puts the United States in a predicament, a Catch-22 situation if you will:

A. If we withdraw, then it is possible and even likely that the democratic government will collapse. Al Qaeda and extremist Muslims will sweep in and seize power, leading to a fundamentalist, Islamic terrorist state similar to that of Afghanistan but on a much larger scale.

B. If we stay the course - America will continue to bleed and bleed. The Iraqi people will continue to bleed and bleed. At some point then the American people and Congress will have enough of this war and situation "A" will likely happen

C. Or we can augment - Follow General Eric Shinseki's proposal back in early 2003 before the invasion and deploy at least 300,000 troops in Iraq, preferably 500,000. We will treat the Iraqi people with dignity and compassion, making EVERY EFFORT to ensure the safety of the Iraqi people and minimalizing the violence in Iraq.

The American people will be outraged, because a draft may have to be instituted for us to put 500,000 men on the ground. There will be calls to impeach President Bush. The Republican party can forget about re-election for the next decade, and American casualties will mount with intense fighting as we protect Iraqi civilians and infrastructure against Muslim fundamentalist fighters.

This may or may not work. If we choose this course of action, there could be one of two results:

1. Situation gets worse: Al Qaeda steps up their attacks as a result of US augmentation and seems to have no shortage of new recruits. All we did as a result of putting 500,000 men on the ground is expand the scope of the war and returning to the status quo.

2. The Iraqi Government catches a breath: 500,000 men on the ground may give the Iraqi government the breathing room it needs to more quickly field a strong army capable to gradually replacing US troops in the front lines. There is always the problem of Al Qaeda infiltrating the ranks of the army and sabotage as a result, therefore, men selected to become officers of the Iraqi Army must face even more stringent examinations and qualifications than officers in the US military.

Also the presence of 500,000 could allow the Iraqi government, US contractors as well as IGOs and NGOs to rebuild the Iraqi economy and infrastructure in relative safety.



As you see...there are lots of decisions that need to be made. A lot of the stuff I've said here is really theoretical. Option "C" may not even be an option. With the recent event of the democratic party retaking the US Congress, the chances of Congress authorizing such a move, that may even require a draft possibly is slim to none.


All I can say is that in hindsight - Bush and Rumsfeld and his advisors should've thought MUCH MUCH more carefully before making the decision to go into Iraq. And for knucklehead Rumsfeld - DON'T EVER IGNORE THE ADVICE OF YOUR MILITARY COMMANDERS, BECAUSE THEY KNOW BETTER THAN YOU WHEN IT COMES TO STRATEGY AND OPERATIONS.

[SkilletsUSMC]

I am a vet of this war. I have seen Marines die. I will not sit here and listen to some one who never stepped foot in country tell me that we are loosing this war. Im ****ing sick of it. Youre in here everyday crying uncle for a war that you know nothing about except for what you read on the internet. what a victory be for you anyway? Total peace? In our own country there is violence that, with the right spin, could be considered "secratarian violence". There is cop killing. So I suppose we should pull out of detriot and south central LA? We have plenty of violence with good americans dying there too.

There are certain groups of people in this country who are hell bent on making sure the US war effort looks as bad and happless as possible. The US forces are now made to follow rediculous ROEs just so the Anti war media wont rip them apart.

The war in Iraq would be over in 6 months if we could just take the gloves off. The REAL is fought everyday here at home. And that is the ONLY war we are losing.

[drumcorpssnare]

SkilletsUSMC- Best post I've seen since joining Leatherneck.com Period!

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Skillets, right on target!!! I owe you a beer.

[SuNmAN]

I am a vet of this war. I have seen Marines die. I will not sit here and listen to some one who never stepped foot in country tell me that we are loosing this war. Im ****ing sick of it. Youre in here everyday crying uncle for a war that you know nothing about except for what you read on the internet. what a victory be for you anyway? Total peace? In our own country there is violence that, with the right spin, could be considered "secratarian violence". There is cop killing. So I suppose we should pull out of detriot and south central LA? We have plenty of violence with good americans dying there too.

There are certain groups of people in this country who are hell bent on making sure the US war effort looks as bad and happless as possible. The US forces are now made to follow rediculous ROEs just so the Anti war media wont rip them apart.

The war in Iraq would be over in 6 months if we could just take the gloves off. The REAL is fought everyday here at home. And that is the ONLY war we are losing.

I respect you for being a veteran of this war. But I have said nothing about the tactical scheme of things - which is all you have seen.

I'm sorry but when the newly appointed SecDef as well as top military leaders concede that we are most definitely NOT winning and everyday Americans continue to die, I'm pretty sure that counts as losing.

And losing the war at home is PART OF THE WAR. Because losing the war at home WILL lead to us losing the war in Iraq. Why? Obviously because we have a democratic form of government and decisions are swayed by public opinion.

Congress will not fund this war for much longer so long as we make no progress.

[SuNmAN]

I am a vet of this war. I have seen Marines die. I will not sit here and listen to some one who never stepped foot in country tell me that we are loosing this war. Im ****ing sick of it. Youre in here everyday crying uncle for a war that you know nothing about except for what you read on the internet. what a victory be for you anyway? Total peace? In our own country there is violence that, with the right spin, could be considered "secratarian violence". There is cop killing. So I suppose we should pull out of detriot and south central LA? We have plenty of violence with good americans dying there too.

There are certain groups of people in this country who are hell bent on making sure the US war effort looks as bad and happless as possible. The US forces are now made to follow rediculous ROEs just so the Anti war media wont rip them apart.

The war in Iraq would be over in 6 months if we could just take the gloves off. The REAL is fought everyday here at home. And that is the ONLY war we are losing.


Oh yeah, as for me never having set foot in the country

dude well thats out of my control. But it doesn't stop me from having some knowledge on the topic because I've done my research.

The Colonel that commands your regiment - do you think he sees any action? Does that mean he knows nothing about Iraq? What about the Sergeant Major that works for him?

What about Bill Belichick? Who never played a down in the NFL? Is he any less of a football coach because of it? Does his players tell him to shutup because he has no clue about anything?

I'm not saying I'm any of the above, but I am saying I don't have to have been there to know something.

I can put two and two together. So long as:

1. Americans and Iraqi civilians are dying everyday
2. Yet there is still continued, or even increased violence daily

and our #1 objective is to: Stabilize the country and reduce secretarian violence

then how can you say we're not LOSING THE WAR?

Its not being pessimistic, it is realizing that something is wrong and DEMANDING A CHANGE.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

SuN, while you may have a certain point about seeing 'the big picture', discounting, as you seem to be doing, Skillets 'grunts eye view' is doing exactly what you accuse the current administration of doing.

And, I haven't set foot 'in country' either, but I do my research and Intel as well. Except, I try to avoid places like the NYT and various anti-war/anti-american sites to do it, or at least, base my entire opinion on just that.

Lastly...

"And losing the war at home is PART OF THE WAR. Because losing the war at home WILL lead to us losing the war in Iraq. Why? Obviously because we have a democratic form of government and decisions are swayed by public opinion."

Exactly. And, as the left is so fond of saying, look to the 'root cause' of that public opinion...and that is, the doomsayers, naysayers, the 'America is always wrong' crowd, the NYT and other 'media' chanting about how badly 'we' are doing....

You are right. "We" are losing this war at home, and "we" have our own media, in cahoots with certain parties on the left, to thank for it.

Thank god these same people weren't around during Iwo Jima, or the Battle of the Bulge. I think censorship of the press during wartime is not only needed, but in the national interest.

[OLE SARG]

Sgt Leprechaun - I agree with you 110% on the censorship of our so-called press during wartime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I were still in I would have to consider shooting a lot of newspaper correspondents as "the enemy". They do more harm than our REAL ENEMY!!!!!!!

I do have to agree with one thing, we could win this war in NO TIME if we weren't hampered by one obstacle - CONGRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND the far-left!!

SEMPER FI,

[outlaw3179]

Sunman I can appreciate the fact that you think you know what is going on out there. You watch CNN, you read the New York Times and you think you know. You dont know ****. You sound just like everyone else who has an opinion but has no first hand knowledge of what is going on out there. Wait til you get out there , oh yeah your going . Probably in the next year if your in the same unit. So standby , read up all you want and make your little assumptions right now . Cuz i guaran****intee you that when your on patrol next year that stupid **** youve been reading wont mean a god damn thing. You think any "real" Marine gives a fu*k about your plan for retreat ? Get the fu*k out of here and go join green peace. Marine, by coming in here and spouting what your college proffesor has been teaching you all you do is enbolden the enemy , hurt your Marines and make yourself sound stupid. Like Ive said it before. We dont need your support , your help or your approval. Just let us do our jobs. Marine you better go sit down in a real quiet place somewhere and and figure out what your doing wearing that uniform, and how far you really believe that **** your saying ...because remember all your going to know is from a "tactical point of view" Dumbass.

[SuNmAN]

SuN, while you may have a certain point about seeing 'the big picture', discounting, as you seem to be doing, Skillets 'grunts eye view' is doing exactly what you accuse the current administration of doing.

And, I haven't set foot 'in country' either, but I do my research and Intel as well. Except, I try to avoid places like the NYT and various anti-war/anti-american sites to do it, or at least, base my entire opinion on just that.

Lastly...

"And losing the war at home is PART OF THE WAR. Because losing the war at home WILL lead to us losing the war in Iraq. Why? Obviously because we have a democratic form of government and decisions are swayed by public opinion."

Exactly. And, as the left is so fond of saying, look to the 'root cause' of that public opinion...and that is, the doomsayers, naysayers, the 'America is always wrong' crowd, the NYT and other 'media' chanting about how badly 'we' are doing....

You are right. "We" are losing this war at home, and "we" have our own media, in cahoots with certain parties on the left, to thank for it.

Thank god these same people weren't around during Iwo Jima, or the Battle of the Bulge. I think censorship of the press during wartime is not only needed, but in the national interest.


Whoa whoa...I have NEVER been to an anti-war/anti American site. The New York Times is probably one of the best newspapers in circulation in the United States. C'mon now, you expect me to get all my news from the Marine Corps Times? Yeah...thats not biased.

Sergeant - look at what you said: "Thank God these people weren't around during Iwo Jima or the Battle of the Bulge"

These two were CONVENTIONAL BATTLES, as opposed to Iraq, which is an unconventional WAR. In a conventional battle, the only thing thats required for us to achieve a certain objective is MILITARY FORCE. In Iwo Jima, our MILITARY FORCE took the heavily fortified Japanese island fortress with PLAIN OLD MILITARY FORCE. There was no need for diplomacy, no need to win hearts and minds, no need to win international support. Same with the Battle of the Bulge as we defeated CONVENTIONAL GERMAN FORCES.

What about Iraq? Lets take a look here:

The enemy is not wearing a uniform that identifies him as such. Our troops will often not be able to distinguish between a combatant and a non-combatant. They attack us not directly but with sneak attacks, sniping and IEDs. They kill civilians en masse to create discontent not only in Iraq but also in America and the international community.

Here, ALL THE MILITARY MIGHT IN THE WORLD just may not save us. The enemy does not need to defeat us militarily to win the war. Just as the NVA and Viet Cong never defeated us militarily. All they need to do is cause enough trouble for the international community to lose confidence in the United States (success), for the American people to lose faith in the current administration (again success), to make America look bad in the international arena (success) and to create chaos and turmoil in Iraq so the Iraqi people have no faith in their own, newly elected administation (success)

And that is why, ladies and gents, we are losing the war.

I'm sure Corporal Skillets was very brave in Iraq and killed many terrorists and won many battles. But that is irrevalent to winning the war in Iraq.

[SuNmAN]

Sgt Leprechaun - I agree with you 110% on the censorship of our so-called press during wartime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I were still in I would have to consider shooting a lot of newspaper correspondents as "the enemy". They do more harm than our REAL ENEMY!!!!!!!

I do have to agree with one thing, we could win this war in NO TIME if we weren't hampered by one obstacle - CONGRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND the far-left!!

SEMPER FI,


Please let me know how Congress is hampering our war efforts. They've only time and time again pass appropriations to FUND the war in Iraq, thats all.

And btw the Far Right is every bit as bad as the far left.

[SuNmAN]

You're right on patrol all that stuff won't mean a damn thing. Because it is not up to you or I, it is up to the people in charge. The Field Commanders and the Bush Administration. <br />
<br />
I'm sorry that...

[outlaw3179]

Yeah your all growns up. The rest of us dumbass grunts are just poor uneducated wretches who had no other choice in life. Thank God we have some punk ass college kid like yourself to show us the light. Why did you join the Marine Corps?

[SuNmAN]

Yeah your all growns up. The rest of us dumbass grunts are just poor uneducated wretches who had no other choice in life. Thank God we have some punk ass college kid like yourself to show us the light. Why did you join the Marine Corps?


Quit taking my words out of context. I never said that.

I joined because I love my country. Doesn't mean I have to buy into the Bush Administration and agree with everything they're doing.

When I get a lawful order, all I will say is "aye aye sir" and obey, but it doesn't mean I don't have the right to question the competence and intentions of our current administration like every other American.

[kato811]

congress hampering the war effort? there not the ones that have insisted on staying the course for the last 4 years. they have approved every request for money to fight this police action.

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin:YO~SUNMAN?I SEE YOU ATTEND THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS;WHAT THE HELL YOU WEARING THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS COVER FOR???(LIKE THEM BANDWAGON'S DO 'YA?) SEMPER~FIDELIS :evilgrin: (LMAO)

[SuNmAN]

:evilgrin:YO~SUNMAN?I SEE YOU ATTEND THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS;WHAT THE HELL YOU WEARING THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS COVER FOR???(LIKE THEM BANDWAGON'S DO 'YA?) SEMPER~FIDELIS :evilgrin: (LMAO)


lol

my 3 favorite college teams are

#1 Illinois Fighting Illini (hope to make the football team in the walkon tryouts in february)

#2 Notre Dame Fighting Irish

#3 Texas Longhorns

:-)

[jgorosco]

sunman looks like the Terrorists have won your heart. That a boy! A weak Minded but intelligent individual such as yourself should see through what the terrorists are trying to do and stand by your Commander in Chief and his Administration. If you are against the enemy don't side with the Enemy!! Instead of stating that we are losing the war how about start doing some Moral boosters to get everyones spirits up. Instead of trying to make US look like pathetic Losers!!!

[10thzodiac]

Any of you hard chargers ever stop to think who sent us there ? Somebody that was figuratively never there ! Why not tell him he doesn't know, he wasn't there like you were ? <br />
<br />
Even John Kerry has...

[SuNmAN]

sunman looks like the Terrorists have won your heart. That a boy! A weak Minded but intelligent individual such as yourself should see through what the terrorists are trying to do and stand by your Commander in Chief and his Administration. If you are against the enemy don't side with the Enemy!! Instead of stating that we are losing the war how about start doing some Moral boosters to get everyones spirits up. Instead of trying to make US look like pathetic Losers!!!


The terrorists have NOT won my heart.

Do you think I am happy that we are losing the war? Furthermore, if I was talking to a group of Marines and soldiers in Iraq, do you think I would be saying such things?

You should read all my posts. I have stated TIME AND TIME AGAIN that US military forces have NEVER been defeated on the battlefield in Iraq. Whenever there is a battle, we win it.

But the terrorists are winning in other aspects of their unconventional war ! They are ruining US credibility not only domestically, but also with the Iraqi people and the international arena !!

They are eroding the support for the coalition forces in Iraq, and every day the Iraqi people live in fear of whether they will live to see the next day !!

This is not a "whine and *****" post - "boohoohoo we are losing the war"

We are losing the war, but we have NOT lost the war.

Its 4th quarter and we're down 21-14 and the enemy is knocking on our gates inside the 20 yard line, and we better make some adjustments and force a turnover before it is too late !!!

If we keep doing what we're doing now we WILL lose ! But IF the Bush administration and senior military advisors as well as the American people are willing to make some fundamental changes diplomatically and strategically - WE CAN COME OUT VICTORIOUS !!

Semper Fidelis Bro

[SuNmAN]

sunman looks like the Terrorists have won your heart. That a boy! A weak Minded but intelligent individual such as yourself should see through what the terrorists are trying to do and stand by your Commander in Chief and his Administration. If you are against the enemy don't side with the Enemy!! Instead of stating that we are losing the war how about start doing some Moral boosters to get everyones spirits up. Instead of trying to make US look like pathetic Losers!!!


The United States is a democratic country (don't give me the its not a democracy stuff lol a republic is a form of democracy)

Part of what makes a healthy democracy is that people can voice their discontent at our administration and leaders when we do not feel like they are doing an adequete job. It is a right guaranteed in our beloved Constitution.

I'm not one of those hippies that call for the impeachment of Bush, he is trying hard evene though I feel he has not been the best decision maker.

I am glad that the administration is beginning to realize that big changes need to be made.

Better late than never !

[sgt tony]

Quit taking my words out of context. I never said that.

I joined because I love my country. Doesn't mean I have to buy into the Bush Administration and agree with everything they're doing.

When I get a lawful order, all I will say is "aye aye sir" and obey, but it doesn't mean I don't have the right to question the competence and intentions of our current administration like every other American.


As you have said SuNmAN you joined the Marines because you love the Country. If you are now in as you say and are going to become a Officer in the Marines the first thing that comes to my mind is You have NO IDEA what it is to love your Country because you took a oath to Honor and Defend this Great Country USA. If we just pull out then what have we done? Not a Da## think but lost the faith of what we as Americans Cherish and that is Freedom and you ask that we give up and roll over to the A@@ Wipes and the people that have fought to try to give these people. No as a Marine you do this and not question what the Commander in Chief has placed on the plate of the Service's and if you wish not to do this then maybe you should move over and let the REAL MARINES do the job that is asked of them.
As you have said in your pofile that Rudy was your movie of choice he did all he could to be part of the team and not the other side.
Yes we are winning the battles and we are struggling to win the hearts and minds of the people. It is because we aree told we are not to attack until we are attacked. This has not worked and we need to fight this as a war and take the land and then clear the people then move to the next area. Yes they do not wear uniforms but if they are taken by force and then released to the rear then they can not attack if we take the weapons. Yes we can give them there gun back but this can be done when the war is over. We should not allow any guns/weapons with the people because that is how you stop the shootings. This is war not games, let our men and women fight this as such.
This is my opion and you have yours but as Marines we all should work to win not try to find out how to pull out. That just means finish what we start.
:flag:

[greensideout]

The United States is a democratic country (don't give me the its not a democracy stuff lol a republic is a form of democracy)

Part of what makes a healthy democracy is that people can voice their discontent at our administration and leaders when we do not feel like they are doing an adequete job. It is a right guaranteed in our beloved Constitution.

I'm not one of those hippies that call for the impeachment of Bush, he is trying hard evene though I feel he has not been the best decision maker.

I am glad that the administration is beginning to realize that big changes need to be made.

Better late than never !


The change that we cannot make is the Iraqi people. They do not understand democracy and free will. How do you overcome that?

[SuNmAN]

As you have said SuNmAN you joined the Marines because you love the Country. If you are now in as you say and are going to become a Officer in the Marines the first thing that comes to my mind is You have NO IDEA what it is to love your Country because you took a oath to Honor and Defend this Great Country USA. If we just pull out then what have we done? Not a Da## think but lost the faith of what we as Americans Cherish and that is Freedom and you ask that we give up and roll over to the A@@ Wipes and the people that have fought to try to give these people. No as a Marine you do this and not question what the Commander in Chief has placed on the plate of the Service's and if you wish not to do this then maybe you should move over and let the REAL MARINES do the job that is asked of them.
As you have said in your pofile that Rudy was your movie of choice he did all he could to be part of the team and not the other side.
Yes we are winning the battles and we are struggling to win the hearts and minds of the people. It is because we aree told we are not to attack until we are attacked. This has not worked and we need to fight this as a war and take the land and then clear the people then move to the next area. Yes they do not wear uniforms but if they are taken by force and then released to the rear then they can not attack if we take the weapons. Yes we can give them there gun back but this can be done when the war is over. We should not allow any guns/weapons with the people because that is how you stop the shootings. This is war not games, let our men and women fight this as such.
This is my opion and you have yours but as Marines we all should work to win not try to find out how to pull out. That just means finish what we start.
:flag:

Staff Sergeant...respectfully - please re-read my post because I have NEVER, EVER advocated an immediate withdrawal of our troops. I have only called for a fundamental shift in our strategy. I have outlined a few things but what do I know, I'm just a college kid. The rest is for the Senior Military Officers to figure out for themselves.

I still think we need at least 300,000 troops to pacify Iraq though.

[SuNmAN]

The change that we cannot make is the Iraqi people. They do not understand democracy and free will. How do you overcome that?

I don't really think there is a lack of understanding of democracy and free will

its pretty straightforward, even the biggest dummy can understand it

1. You now have the right to choose who will represent you in government
2. You now have the right to speak out against the administration without fear of retribution

The biggest problem we have is that the Iraqi people are NOT SAFE. Every single day you see bombings that kill many civilians. I don't think the Iraqi citizens take for granted that they may live to see the next day, because they just might not.

So in this instance, the framework of democracy is present, but not the spirit.

Democracy is useless without security. Al Qaeda knows that and that is why they continue to target Iraqi civilians in an attempt to bring forth the collapse of the Iraqi Government.

Our #1 goal should not be search and destroy. We need to deploy many more troops and resources (hopefully we can mend fences with the international community and get their physical support, which will make this easier) to protect the Iraqi people.

We will protect the people side by side with the Iraqi Army. After a certain period, if we can significantly reduce the violence, the people will regain confidence in the United States and the new, democratic Iraqi government. Then the democracy will be on its feet and we can eventually withdraw.

But to do this we need a hell of a lot more than 140,000 troops. And I'm pretty sure the American people will have NOTHING of troop augmentation right now. Which is why we are in a huge predicament.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Okay. Here we go.

First, troop levels are going to be increased, probably in the near future, no matter who says what, and when. Plan on it. SuN, pack your trash, if you are still in the USMCR, I have no doubt you'll be shipping out.

Second, pontificating from the sidelines, while sometimes annoying the living crap out of those of us who have BTDT (no, I haven't been to Iraq, like I said, but ten years AD time, and 3 deployments, 2 WestPac & 1 Med, plus all the other stuff, does give me a couple of T shirts..), is still your right, and responsibility. THAT having been said, however, I bet you at least a 12 pack of Yingling that those same opinions will change after you've seen the elephant. They may not go back to the Recruit training "killkillkill" stuff, but they'll change.

Third, the NYT was, a long time ago, a decent newspaper run by honest to gosh real reporters. Nowadays, it's a left wing rag that isn't worth lining the bottom of the birdcage with. I glance at online stuff I get for Intelligence purposes only, knowing full well exactly the left wing slant the paper has. The MC Times isn't a bad paper, but it's not designed to be all things to all people, it's supposed to be for, and by, Marines. And, believe it or not, I was once an Editorial Columnist for them, on the back pages. Made lots of people unhappy, but that's a story for another time.

Third, remember that what you see being 'reported' are only the 'if it bleeds, it leads' stuff. Not all of Iraq is perpetually in flames, just like not all of Washington DC, or Chicago, has drive by shootings and crack dealers on every corner. Only those places and events that SELL papers and airtime get reported. Start asking the "why" and stop listening to the "feel good" nonsense that most (so called) journalists spout. That goes for both sides, but there are dang few 'rightwing' reporters out there. Those that are, are easy to find.

Kato, cutting off money while we are in the middle of this fight is probably the worst thing we can do right now, since the only people that will be effected are, well, US. The guys/gals on the ground, that is. That idea gives me visions of helicopters pulling Marines off rooftops, circa Saigon '75...not something I think any of us want to see.

[SuNmAN]

Okay. Here we go.

First, troop levels are going to be increased, probably in the near future, no matter who says what, and when. Plan on it. SuN, pack your trash, if you are still in the USMCR, I have no doubt you'll be shipping out.

Second, pontificating from the sidelines, while sometimes annoying the living crap out of those of us who have BTDT (no, I haven't been to Iraq, like I said, but ten years AD time, and 3 deployments, 2 WestPac & 1 Med, plus all the other stuff, does give me a couple of T shirts..), is still your right, and responsibility. THAT having been said, however, I bet you at least a 12 pack of Yingling that those same opinions will change after you've seen the elephant. They may not go back to the Recruit training "killkillkill" stuff, but they'll change.

Third, the NYT was, a long time ago, a decent newspaper run by honest to gosh real reporters. Nowadays, it's a left wing rag that isn't worth lining the bottom of the birdcage with. I glance at online stuff I get for Intelligence purposes only, knowing full well exactly the left wing slant the paper has. The MC Times isn't a bad paper, but it's not designed to be all things to all people, it's supposed to be for, and by, Marines. And, believe it or not, I was once an Editorial Columnist for them, on the back pages. Made lots of people unhappy, but that's a story for another time.

Third, remember that what you see being 'reported' are only the 'if it bleeds, it leads' stuff. Not all of Iraq is perpetually in flames, just like not all of Washington DC, or Chicago, has drive by shootings and crack dealers on every corner. Only those places and events that SELL papers and airtime get reported. Start asking the "why" and stop listening to the "feel good" nonsense that most (so called) journalists spout. That goes for both sides, but there are dang few 'rightwing' reporters out there. Those that are, are easy to find.

Kato, cutting off money while we are in the middle of this fight is probably the worst thing we can do right now, since the only people that will be effected are, well, US. The guys/gals on the ground, that is. That idea gives me visions of helicopters pulling Marines off rooftops, circa Saigon '75...not something I think any of us want to see.

I doubt there will be a troop increase

sending an extra 5000 men arent gonna help

they need 300,000

and Congress will have nothing of it.

[outlaw3179]

Sorry boot sitll sh*tting out 3rd phase chow and he thinks he knows all the answers and knows what its like to be a Marine on the ground in Iraq from watching a few shows like "Over there". lol... Understand this Marine , you are not a part of the solution YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
You should quickly figure out whose team you want to play on . Here in a little bit you will be in country and your Marines need to know if you are dependable and will be willing to pull the trigger. From personal experience I can already see what type of Marine you are. You will be hesitant and you will overthink and you will overanalyze. Not saying thats always a bad thing but sooner or later you will come into a situation where you wont have time. But that hesitation will get you killed. Hopefully it will just be you and it will not be your lack of discipline that will get other Marines killed.

Discipline : The instant obedience to lawful orders and respect for authority.

[10thzodiac]

al-Qaida "the Law", "the foundation", or "the base" is a Sunni Islamist organization with the stated objective of eliminating foreign influence in Muslim countries, eradicating those they deem to be "infidels", and reestablishing the caliphate, the only form of government sanctioned in traditional Islamic theology.

al-Qaida knows we can send another 50,000 troops to Iraq for 5 months, but not five years.

All of King George's horses and all the Kings George's men cannot undue the harm to America her troops and the Iraqi people he has caused.

War criminal and/or an idiot, history will decide !

I dread to see another Black Granite wall with all my brothers names on it for nothing.

SF
10th

[SuNmAN]

Sorry boot sitll sh*tting out 3rd phase chow and he thinks he knows all the answers and knows what its like to be a Marine on the ground in Iraq from watching a few shows like "Over there". lol... Understand this Marine , you are not a part of the solution YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
You should quickly figure out whose team you want to play on . Here in a little bit you will be in country and your Marines need to know if you are dependable and will be willing to pull the trigger. From personal experience I can already see what type of Marine you are. You will be hesitant and you will overthink and you will overanalyze. Not saying thats always a bad thing but sooner or later you will come into a situation where you wont have time. But that hesitation will get you killed. Hopefully it will just be you and it will not be your lack of discipline that will get other Marines killed.

Discipline : The instant obedience to lawful orders and respect for authority.


Sorry Sergeant, but "3rd phase chow" is almost 3 years ago, and though I have not been to Iraq, I've been a standout Marine my whole time I've been in the Marine Corps. Guide boot camp, squad leader MCT and MOS school, high first class PFT and high rifle expert, 4.6/4.6 Pro/Cons.

I always instantly obey lawful orders and yes I respect authority. Sometimes you have to question authority though. It is the blind obedience to authority that leads to atrocities like My Lai, Abu Ghriab and Haditha. And yes, I question the competence of the Bush administration's competence at this point. Being a Marine does not devoid me of the right to question the administration as an AMERICAN.

This is an internet forum and all I am doing is voicing my opinion, and my lack of combat experience at the tactical level has nothing to do with my opinion on how the Iraq war should be executed in the grand scheme of things. After all, I am not criticizing someone's ability to lead a fireteam through the streets of Muhmadiyah or how to spot IEDs while driving in a security convoy. Everything I have said in this thread does not require combat experience to be the truth.

[outlaw3179]

Ok sorry MCT Chow. and congrats on all your accolades ! I definetly want you in my squad!

[Sgt Leprechaun]

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH......

That, is pretty freakin funny. I laughed out loud on that one.

Hey, Outlaw, how about a 42 yr old 0231/0311/9962....can I be in your squad? LOL.

Heck, then again, I'll be happy just to be back in ANYone's squad. Thank god the unit I'm trying to get into needs 0231's...I think I'm too damn old to be humpin thru the toolies anymore..Still, the cop skills may come in handy in Urban combat...

[Sgt Leprechaun]

BTW, Ole 'cut n run' sees the ISG report differently, I suppose than the rest of us...

''Today there is near consensus that there is no U.S. military solution and we must disengage our military from Iraq.'' -- Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa.


Perhaps if some Sheik offered him some oil money, he'd change his tune?

Naaah. Never mind...

[SuNmAN]

Ok sorry MCT Chow. and congrats on all your accolades ! I definetly want you in my squad!

I don't wanna be in your squad anyway

but in four years maybe you can be in my platoon lol

I glad we can at least be humorous here and not get too heated haha

[outlaw3179]

Are you going to get us lost just like every other boot louie Ive ever had? Oh and by the way.... ON paper its your platoon...But everyone knows its the Sgts and squad leaders platoon'.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Bingo, Outlaw. I've had good LT's and not so good LT's when I was a Platoon Sergeant...but they all knew it was MY platoon.

My offer's still open..long as I can bring my .45 as a personal sidearm...

[outlaw3179]

Get your gear were stepping in 10 mics. :)

[SuNmAN]

Are you going to get us lost just like every other boot louie Ive ever had? Oh and by the way.... ON paper its your platoon...But everyone knows its the Sgts and squad leaders platoon'.


lol hopefully in 4 years we all get GPSs and we won't get lost haha

[Sgt Leprechaun]

My trash remains packed, I'm ready.

[003XXMarineDAD]

Correct me if I'am wrong , but last I heard there was still no charges on the Haditta one.

[SkilletsUSMC]

Are you going to get us lost just like every other boot louie Ive ever had? Oh and by the way.... ON paper its your platoon...But everyone knows its the Sgts and squad leaders platoon'.

My favorite running cadence...

0 dark 30 I awoke,

My 1st Sergeant was blowing smoke,

he had NCOs all arround his desk,

and a BOOT leutenant at the leaning rest.

L - O - S - T

You cant spell lost without the LT

[drumcorpssnare]

Chesty used to say that NCO's were the 'backbone' of the Corps. He often used to pull up a seat with the Cpls. and Pfcs. and say, "Hey old man, are you getting enough beans, bullets, bandages, and Bibles?" He knew that in order to get the truest sense of what was going on, he had to rely on his NCOs. Period.

SEMPER FI:usmc:
drumcorpssnare

[SkilletsUSMC]

lol hopefully in 4 years we all get GPSs and we won't get lost haha

This post just proves how boot you are for those who have BTDT. We get GPSs NOW. :D

[FistFu68]

:usmc: YO'~NUMBA 10,THAT BLACK GRANITE WALL.THE VIETNAM VETERAN'S MEMORIAL~SINCE YOU WERE NEVER AN IN~COUNTRY VETERAN!!!THOSE 58,000 NAMES OF BRAVE SOUL'S~INSCRIBED ON (THE WALL)WERE FIGHTING FOR THE FREEDOM OF THE THEN SOUTH VIETNAMEISE PEOPLE!!!FOR YOU TOO SAY THEY DIED FOR'NADA~IS A SLAP IN THE FACE;TO ALL THOSE BRAVE SOUL'S!!!YOU NEED TOO LEARN HOW TOO PUT SKID~CHAIN'S ON THAT TONGUE OF YOU'RS!YOU WERE A MARINE,GODDAMMIT;ACT LIKE ONE!!!:usmc:

[Mike McIntyre]

As for Iraq, what would you do SuNmaN, pull out? There is no easy answer. If we pull out, Iran is already prepared to go in.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
As far as an education goes, I have never served in the Military yet I have more degrees than a rectal thermometer. But my education has taught me this, “A smart man learns from his mistakes but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others”<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
My late father, who was a USMC E-6 in WW II and later an O-4 in the USAF during the Cold War once told me, “All good offices listen to their sergeants and all good supervisors listen to their leads (foreman). Those who think they know more than the men on the floor and the boots on the ground ARE DOOMED TO FAIL”<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Remember Viet Nam and the men & women who served. Those on the "Wall" did NOT die in vein!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sgt Leprechaun]

A little reminder, perhaps, of a different attack on America..and the national mood then as compared to now..

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/AvengePearlHarbor.jpg

[outlaw3179]

Exactly nowadays first you have to ask

1.Is this in the best interest of the enemy.

2. Could we first use diplomacy

3. Are anyones feelings going to get hurt?

[drumcorpssnare]

When I was at Kaneohe Bay, I saw the lg. caliber Jap bulluts...still embedded in concrete. And the captured mini-sub at Pearl. And of course, the USS Arizona.

Not for nothin'...but it's truly sad that America did not heed the warning of Gen. Billy Mitchell. He correctly predicted the Japanese Empire would strike a US naval base, somewhere in the Pacific...probably on a Sunday morning. Instead of listening, he was court-martialed, because what he was saying was not "politically correct" at the time.

My thoughts were with our Dec. 7, 1941 veterans, when I woke this morning.

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[Sgt Leprechaun]

And, if the answer is, or seems to be, to the following:

1: Of course.

2: Always, even if they are reigning bombs on DC, and blowing up NYC skyscrapers. War never solved anything.

3: We don't want to go mucking about in other countries, if it may hurt someones feelings. Matter of fact, we can't even look crossways at anyone of remotely Muslim faith, because this might offend their delicate sensibilities. Furthermore, it is now decreed that even if you've ever read or heard of the movie "El Cid", you may be an aggrieved party.

Therefore, we must surrender immediately. It's only "fair".

Excuse me, whilst I go vomit into the nearest trash receptacle.

[outlaw3179]

Definetly surrender and apoligize and aplogize and only hope the religion of peace does not declare holy jihad on my infidel ass.

[6yrforMar]

We have been talking to the Syrians for years,we even have a embassey in Syria.Iran declared War on us in 1979,we also have some kind of dialog with them,look where it got us so far on the Nuclear question.Insurgants are coming from Syria into Iraq.Iran has How-To classes for insurgents for building IED`s.This Iraq report suggests we talk to our enemies,what a bunch of BullSh...t.Its like FDR & W.Churchill talking to Hitler & ToJo!

[kato811]

Sgt Leprechan i never said anything about cutting the budget for the military.i said they have approved every request sent there way.the thing holding us up the most in this war is staying the course, witch by the way we are still doing. bet ya head diffrent havent you?

[amorellj]

Sergeants,
I am a PFC in the MG Plt AT BN and I was curious if reservists like me can volunteer to go over and fight with another grunt unit in Iraq.
Very Respectfully,
PFC Amorello

[SuNmAN]

Dear Mike, please read all my posts because I never advocated an immediate withdrawal. You're confusing me with 10thzodiac.

[Jon Taylor]

sunman-

wow. i hope you redeemed yourself after your first page of attempted rebuttals, because i didn't even care to click on page "2" to see what you had to say after reading that bull**** you just flung on the walls of this website. i read enough regurgitated f*ck from lou dobbs in six inches of computer screen to make me sick. this isn't the air force man. we do what we are told to do, without publicly asking "why", and do it until the job is done. it's that simple. that's what a marine does, all the way up and down the chain of the command. it is the easiest job in the world. do what you're told, shut up, and move on. sometimes it sucks. i suggest with your attitude, you better f*cking break a leg and get out of my corps, where someone gives a flying f*ck about whining and polls.

[SuNmAN]

sunman-

wow. i hope you redeemed yourself after your first page of attempted rebuttals, because i didn't even care to click on page "2" to see what you had to say after reading that bull**** you just flung on the walls of this website. i read enough regurgitated f*ck from lou dobbs in six inches of computer screen to make me sick. this isn't the air force man. we do what we are told to do, without publicly asking "why", and do it until the job is done. it's that simple. that's what a marine does, all the way up and down the chain of the command. it is the easiest job in the world. do what you're told, shut up, and move on. sometimes it sucks. i suggest with your attitude, you better f*cking break a leg and get out of my corps, where someone gives a flying f*ck about whining and polls.

lol sweet life another successful brainwashed human being

[Jon Taylor]

hey buddy... i signed a contract... so did you. i knew what i was getting into. i dont think you did.

[SuNmAN]

hey buddy... i signed a contract... so did you. i knew what i was getting into. i dont think you did.

I've never disobeyed a lawful order in my life

Do Marines and soldiers lose the right to question the competence of the administration? I don't think so.

[10thzodiac]

Dear Mike, please read all my posts because I never advocated an immediate withdrawal. You're confusing me with 10thzodiac.

Sonny, If you want a bunch of ignoranuses to like you, I suggest thinking and talking like them and be done with it http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/10.gif

Personally instead of "Dear & please", I'd tell them to eat sh*t and ****** die, they're ****** stupid http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/18.gif

Semper Fidelis
10th

[SuNmAN]

Sonny, If you want a bunch of ignoranuses to like you, I suggest thinking and talking like them and be done with it http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/10.gif

Personally instead of "Dear & please", I'd tell them to eat sh*t and ****** die, they're ****** stupid http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/18.gif

Semper Fidelis
10th

lol I don't see a need to get hostile over opposing viewpoints

I just wished some Marines would open their minds a little bit and see both sides of the argument.

[10thzodiac]

lol I don't see a need to get hostile over opposing viewpoints

I just wished some Marines would open their minds a little bit and see both sides of the argument.

Just wanted to point out who your best friend is, not them not me but you !

Fuk'em all except for six pallbearers and two road guards.

Remember what Custer said, " Men, take no prisoners !"

SF
10th

[greensideout]

hey buddy... i signed a contract...


Crew Chief on a C-130 as an E-4? Well done Marine! :thumbup:

[jinelson]

We are fighting a theologically fanatic enemy that has sworn death to all that do not believe and follow their faith or relegion. We are at war with an enemy that will not rest until either all of us that do not believe in their God are dead or they are dead. Was the Bush war plan failed you better believe it was. On September 12th thermonuclear strikes should have been made upon the most heavily populated cities of every Muslim islamofacist state on this planet. We never should have tried to fight a unconventional war conventionally, we forgot what we learned in Nam. By now every Muslim in the United States should have been confined in a deportation camp and held under military confinement until they were deported to a more target rich environment like Iran or Syria. They have made it clear that they want all non believers exterminated and thats how we should be fighting back. Oh Zodiac will have a feild day crying about how extremist that option would be and so would all the defeatest politicians. But the fact is we did just that to defeat the Germans anyone remember Dresden Germany when we incinerated hundreds of thousands of their citizens? Thats what it takes to win a war against an enemy like this one. But the left will not allow that its inhumane, its not politically correct and thats why thats the last war we won. When we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki we vaporized hundreds of thousands of the enemies civilians. Not only did the enemy unconditionally surrender within 3 days but we saved the lives of a million of our warriors that would have died in the invasion of Japan which was planned. If we want to win this war there is absolutely no place for politicians in fighting it other than to provide funding to our military to win it just like WWII and WWI and in case you dont know this is WWIII. While the leftest politicians whine and cry about Bush not winning the war in three or five years I whine about the democratic administrations that preceeded Bushs not doing anything strategically decisive. The war started when the enemy bombed our barracks in Beruit in 1983 thats when WWIII started. It is us or them and make no mistake about that, we must fight fire with fire it is a survival issue for all of us non believers. No war was ever won by politicians or political correctness they were all won by warriors so its time to fight WWIII like we want to win and survive it.

Jim

[jgorosco]

Funny 10zzzzz and sunniman....You want us to listen and go by your way of thinking but you won't do the same!
So now we are going this route
Fuk'em all . Very Well then...Get ready..."Fvck you and the ol dead horse you rode in on, and Fvck you and your "I was almost nuked and I got to ride on a ship while Real Men where fighting, but my daddy did fight in WWII" azz!! And Fvck all of your "Been there, Done That or I know someone who was" stories.

And SunniMan watch what type of company you keep just like in the Corps, it can end up biting you in the azz!

[SuNmAN]

We are fighting a theologically fanatic enemy that has sworn death to all that do not believe and follow their faith or relegion. We are at war with an enemy that will not rest until either all of us that do not believe in their God are dead or they are dead. Was the Bush war plan failed you better believe it was. On September 12th thermonuclear strikes should have been made upon the most heavily populated cities of every Muslim islamofacist state on this planet. We never should have tried to fight a unconventional war conventionally, we forgot what we learned in Nam. By now every Muslim in the United States should have been confined in a deportation camp and held under military confinement until they were deported to a more target rich environment like Iran or Syria. They have made it clear that they want all non believers exterminated and thats how we should be fighting back. Oh Zodiac will have a feild day crying about how extremist that option would be and so would all the defeatest politicians. But the fact is we did just that to defeat the Germans anyone remember Dresden Germany when we incinerated hundreds of thousands of their citizens? Thats what it takes to win a war against an enemy like this one. But the left will not allow that its inhumane, its not politically correct and thats why thats the last war we won. When we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki we vaporized hundreds of thousands of the enemies civilians. Not only did the enemy unconditionally surrender within 3 days but we saved the lives of a million of our warriors that would have died in the invasion of Japan which was planned. If we want to win this war there is absolutely no place for politicians in fighting it other than to provide funding to our military to win it just like WWII and WWI and in case you dont know this is WWIII. While the leftest politicians whine and cry about Bush not winning the war in three or five years I whine about the democratic administrations that preceeded Bushs not doing anything strategically decisive. The war started when the enemy bombed our barracks in Beruit in 1983 thats when WWIII started. It is us or them and make no mistake about that, we must fight fire with fire it is a survival issue for all of us non believers. No war was ever won by politicians or political correctness they were all won by warriors so its time to fight WWIII like we want to win and survive it.

Jim

OMG Staff Sergeant Nelson I have a lot of respect for you but that is the most radical, extreme and out of this world thing I have ever heard in my life.

Nuke all Muslim cities?? Even in World War II we dropped atomic bombs on Nagaski and Hiroshima but we did not attempt to vaporize all of Japan and deport all Japanese Americans like you suggested !!!!!!!!

Over a hundred thousand perished in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Our hydrogen bomb warheads today have will cause deaths not in the hundreds of thousands but HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS. It is unthinkable that anyone would suggest to resort to such an extreme measure.

The day that we stoop to the level of the terrorists I would be very ashamed of being an American.

Right now we hold the moral high ground. We are better than they are. You option would be akin to a madman slaughtering someone's entire family because he was flicked off on the road.


You're absolutely right we cannot fight a conventional war against an unconventional opponent. But thermonuclear war would mean disaster for the entire world.

Lets say we oblierate Iran and Iraq with nuclear warheads. What about Israel? Do you not think their population would suffer from the spread of radiation? Do they get any say in this?

And you would willingly deport hundreds of thousands of AMERICAN CITIZENS OF THE MUSLIM FAITH in this country who had nothing to do with 9/11 whatsoever and only want to lead peaceful lives? Men, women, children and elderly who are harmless and even productive to society??

[SuNmAN]

Funny 10zzzzz and sunniman....You want us to listen and go by your way of thinking but you won't do the same!
So now we are going this route . Very Well then...Get ready..."Fvck you and the ol dead horse you rode in on, and Fvck you and your "I was almost nuked and I got to ride on a ship while Real Men where fighting, but my daddy did fight in WWII" azz!! And Fvck all of your "Been there, Done That or I know someone who was" stories.

And SunniMan watch what type of company you keep just like in the Corps, it can end up biting you in the azz!


dude what are you talking about I said nothing of that sort.

And quit lumping me with 10thzodiac. I like him, I think he is a good man and I appreciate him being here to present the other side of things sometimes but I certainly do not agree with everything he is saying.

Besides dude, just wanted to let you know that your spelling is stellar.

[10thzodiac]

You forgot one thing Baby Einstein, we're not the only kid on the block with with the "Bomb", just think if the Soviets did that to, let say when they were bogged down in Afghanistan, they started nuking all the Islamic Capitals.

You are, God Dam Right, the United States would think they were next, especially you and we'd nuke Russia in a heart beat.

Don't underestimate Russia and China, they have some Jim Nelsons too.

Back to the drawing board Jim, unless you want to include Russia & China in our your mass murder scheme, Shea-sh ! What an idiotic idea.

Get a life

SF
10th

[jinelson]

You forgot one thing Baby Einstein, we're not the only kid on the block with with the "Bomb", just think if the Soviets did that to, let say when they were bogged down in Afghanistan, they started nuking all the Islamic Capitals.

You are, God Dam Right, the United States would think they were next, especially you and we'd nuke Russia in a heart beat.

Don't underestimate Russia and China, they have some Jim Nelsons too.

Back to the drawing board Jim, unless you want to include Russia & China in our your mass murder scheme, Shea-sh ! What an idiotic idea.

Get a life

SF
10th

Hmmmm idiotic, get a life sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. If the enemy had attacked Russia's civilian populace like they did ours you had better believe that that they would have used extreme measures. But one who is a historical know it all like you should know that their commie government was crumbling at the time. War with China is inevidable and would have taken place when General MacArthur wanted to cross the Yaloo River when we were strong enough to win it but leftests like you prevented it.
It seems that you feel that the right thing is to not win and only praise and pamper the enemy that has vowed your extinction. Thats fine with me I wont miss you or your peace at any cost persuasion that would rather die than fight the enemy as they should be fought.

Jim

[jinelson]

OMG Staff Sergeant Nelson I have a lot of respect for you but that is the most radical, extreme and out of this world thing I have ever heard in my life.

Nuke all Muslim cities?? Even in World War II we dropped atomic bombs on Nagaski and Hiroshima but we did not attempt to vaporize all of Japan and deport all Japanese Americans like you suggested !!!!!!!!

Over a hundred thousand perished in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Our hydrogen bomb warheads today have will cause deaths not in the hundreds of thousands but HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS. It is unthinkable that anyone would suggest to resort to such an extreme measure.

The day that we stoop to the level of the terrorists I would be very ashamed of being an American.

Right now we hold the moral high ground. We are better than they are. You option would be akin to a madman slaughtering someone's entire family because he was flicked off on the road.


You're absolutely right we cannot fight a conventional war against an unconventional opponent. But thermonuclear war would mean disaster for the entire world.

Lets say we oblierate Iran and Iraq with nuclear warheads. What about Israel? Do you not think their population would suffer from the spread of radiation? Do they get any say in this?

And you would willingly deport hundreds of thousands of AMERICAN CITIZENS OF THE MUSLIM FAITH in this country who had nothing to do with 9/11 whatsoever and only want to lead peaceful lives? Men, women, children and elderly who are harmless and even productive to society??

Extreme violent measures to combat extreme combative violence is what you were taught in boot camp. Its called war. Moral high ground cannot exist in war as both participants are guilty of the opposite. For it to be any other way would only assure that the moral high ground side would lose and no longer exist. Dont they teach you history at that university you attend or have they slanted so far left that the history no longer exists other than what they have invented it to be?

Jim

[SuNmAN]

Extreme violent measures to combat extreme combative violence is what you were taught in boot camp. Its called war. Moral high ground cannot exist in war as both participants are guilty of the opposite. For it to be any other way would only assure that the moral high ground side would lose and no longer exist. Dont they teach you history at that university you attend or have they slanted so far left that the history no longer exists other than what they have invented it to be?

Jim

I'm pretty sure thermonuclear strike against all major Islamic states has no precedent whatsoever in history.

[10thzodiac]

Jim,

The United States and Russia each maintains a couple of thousand nuclear warheads on high alert. These are warheads that can be launched within minutes or tens of minutes of an order to do so. That includes both submarine- and land-based missiles on both sides.

Someone was pounding the table about how nobody believed General Billy Mitchell's wisdom earlier, what about General Smedley D. Butler's wisdom, "Let's build up a national defense so tight that even a rat couldn't crawl through!"

"I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. Not a single drop of American blood should ever again be spilled on foreign soil. Let's build up a national defense so tight that even a rat couldn't crawl through! War for any other reason is simply a racket." ~ Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC on Interventionism

P.S. Jim, I think your profile picture below speaks volumes on the subject http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/18.gif

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/image.php?u=2170&dateline=1135841357&type=profile

SF
10th

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>


</TD><TD>


</TD></TR><TR><TD>


</TD><TD>


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[drumcorpssnare]

10thz- There's nothing I enjoy more than engaging in a game of "mind chess" with you! LOL So, here goes...

Let us first hypothesize the potential outcome, had someone listened to Gen. Mitchell.

America's military forces would have been on high alert. Our rudimentary radar would have picked up the Japanese fighters and bombers in time for our forces to intercept and destroy the enemy. Our Navy could have been laying in wait for the Imperial Task Force, and sent it to the bottom of the Pacific.
The Japanese, crushed, loose face and become a non-entity in the Second World War. All the military force that would have been used against the Japanese is now diverted to the European Theatre. By December of 1942, the Third Reich is forced to sue for peace.

If only someone had listened...

Fast-forward to the Senate hearing where Lt. Col. Oliver North is being grilled by politicians. North touches on the subject of killing Osama Bin Laden. When asked why, North says, "Because I believe he is the most evil man on the face of the earth." Senator Al Gore laughs...and dismisses the concept of assasinating Bin Laden.

If only someone had listened...

Informed Americans today strongly believe that Islamic radicals are determined to eliminate the infidels of the world. They began their "current" Jihad around 25 years ago. It has intensified in the last 5-6 years. Best estimates are that they will not abandon their quest, if or when we withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan. It is likely our enemies will continue killing Americans with renewed vigor. America's "sabre-rattlers" are saying we should intensify our efforts in standing up to these murderous terrorists.

If only someone listens...


Your move 10thz. And by the way....Checkmate.:banana:

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[jinelson]

SuNmAN to give you better insight as to why you believe the way you do

read this link. http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38175

You have been conditioned.

Jim

[SuNmAN]

SuNmAN to give you better insight as to why you believe the way you do

read this link. http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38175

You have been conditioned.

Jim


long one...I got class in 20 minutes I'll read it after and get back to you

[OLE SARG]

The way things are going in the Middle East, it might boil down to who has the gonads to use the atomic bomb. Do you actually believe the sheetheads would have any feelings about nuking anyone????? With the PC numbnuts we have in D.C. now, the U. S. will be in cinders before they can make a decision, OH, TIME FOR ANOTHER ****ING RECESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

[Mike McIntyre]

Personally instead of "Dear & please", I'd tell them to eat sh*t and ****** die, they're ****** stupid <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 13.5pt; HEIGHT: 13.5pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/18.gif" src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/MMCINT~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Nice job Zodiac!!!!!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I never once got ugly. You liberals have to resort to this. You either “cut and paste” some drivel or you try and slam someone with your eloquent verbiage. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
SuNmAN, the one thing I learned in Grad School is that I wished I had waited and returned to school after I had a little more “Life Experience” because most professors haven’t a clue what the real world is all about.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And to reiterate, if we are not careful, there will be allot nasty people, in control of a lot of energy, with some very big weapons, who would love nothing more than to destroy you, me, and our entire way of life.<o:p></o:p>

[drumcorpssnare]

MikeMcIntyre- Nice post. Especially the last paragraph. Let's hope somebody listens.......

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[SuNmAN]

The way things are going in the Middle East, it might boil down to who has the gonads to use the atomic bomb. Do you actually believe the sheetheads would have any feelings about nuking anyone????? With the PC numbnuts we have in D.C. now, the U. S. will be in cinders before they can make a decision, OH, TIME FOR ANOTHER ****ING RECESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,


No. Al Qaeda would nuke us in an instant or at least extort out of our government some ridiculous political terms. But we're better than that. We don't kill millions of innocent civilians so that we may catch 10 Al Qaeda in the mushroom cloud

we are The United States, the world's beacon for justice and democracy

we are much better than that. This is what makes us all proud to be Americans.

the day we stoop to their level is the day that I will look upon America and our political leaders with great disdain.

[SuNmAN]

Mr.McIntyre

I never once got ugly

look at my posts. I've generally been very polite, but a lot of Marines on this forum have bashed me again and again because I do not agree with our current administration and that I am more liberal than they are, although I consider myself a moderate and do not identify with any political party.

You what what's wrong with our country? It is divided. Listen to yourself talk - "you liberals you liberals"...GENERALIZING !! Some people need to wake up and realize that being liberal is NOT A BAD THING ! Neither is being conservative !!

Being a liberal does not equate to treason or a hate for the military, and being conservative does not equate to fascism or a hate for civil liberties !!!

Now I highly doubt that Al Qaeda can get their hands on a nuclear warhead. They're going to need a silo, fuel, equipment, personnel with expertise etc etc, none of which they have and all of which we can easily destroy with a precision tomahawk cruise missile strike.

If you're one of those who think thermonuclear war against all Arab states is the answer, then good sir I am done talking with you because it makes no sense whatsoever. Not tactically, not strategically, not morally, not politically and certainly not diplomatically.

I do suggest that we continue with our missile defense shield though, just in case Kim Jung Il wants to play games one day.

[6yrforMar]

I think we The USA is going to see a Nuclear strike from Iran within the next 10 years.Our Gov.& policitians are all worried about being political correct,self-serving Fu..k you, Horra for me attitude,self defeating news media,Too much Bush Bashing etc.Like the WW2 Pearl Harbor Vet said The USA needs an event big enough to bring this country together now and Sept.11th was not it.

[SuNmAN]

I think we The USA is going to see a Nuclear strike from Iran within the next 10 years.Our Gov.& policitians are all worried about being political correct,self-serving Fu..k you, Horra for me attitude,self defeating news media,Too much Bush Bashing etc.Like the WW2 Pearl Harbor Vet said The USA needs an event big enough to bring this country together now and Sept.11th was not it.


Not a chance

Why would Iran risk a nuclear strike against the United States if we can do upon them 10000x worse what they do to us?

Think about it dude

[10thzodiac]

10thz- There's nothing I enjoy more than engaging in a game of "mind chess" with you! LOL So, here goes...

Yo, Drummer boy, I must warn you, staying the course doesn't work in chess either and if you have any over promoted pawns that look like jgorosco trying to pass themselves off as big bad aviation ordnance pouges you are doomed from above with "gooney bird" sh*t http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/18.gif !

drumcorpssnare: Let us first hypothesize the potential outcome, had someone listened to Gen. Mitchell.

America's military forces would have been on high alert. Our rudimentary radar would have picked up the Japanese fighters and bombers in time for our forces to intercept and destroy the enemy. Our Navy could have been laying in wait for the Imperial Task Force, and sent it to the bottom of the Pacific.
The Japanese, crushed, loose face and become a non-entity in the Second World War. All the military force that would have been used against the Japanese is now diverted to the European Theatre. By December of 1942, the Third Reich is forced to sue for peace.

If only someone had listened...

10th: With the greatest respect and admiration for General Billy Mitchell, a maverick General like our own General Smedley Butler, both true visionaries in their own right. Both of whom are military hero's.

To quote General Smedley Butler, "War is a Racket. It has always been"

United States didn't want Japan to be the dominant power in the Far East, just like an Islamic State becoming the dominant power in the Middle East today, bad for American financial interests.

Japan attacked us because we cut their oil supply off in the middle of their expansion into China, could you Imagine if the oil cartels cut off Americas oil supply today what America would do ?

Here are some excerpts from General Butlers book "War is a Racket", describing his thoughts on this matter pre WW II:

[Exerts] "Yes, all over, nations are camping in their arms. The mad dogs of Europe are on the loose. In the Orient the maneuvering is more adroit. Back in 1904, when Russia and Japan fought, we kicked out our old friends the Russians and backed Japan. Then our very generous international bankers were financing Japan. Now the trend is to poison us against the Japanese. What does the "open door" policy to China mean to us? Our trade with China is about $90,000,000 a year. Or the Philippine Islands? We have spent about $600,000,000 in the Philippines in thirty-five years and we (our bankers and industrialists and speculators) have private investments there of less than $200,000,000.

Then, to save that China trade of about $90,000,000, or to protect these private investments of less than $200,000,000 in the Philippines, we would be all stirred up to hate Japan and go to war – a war that might well cost us tens of billions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of lives of Americans, and many more hundreds of thousands of physically maimed and mentally unbalanced men.

A third step in this business of smashing the war racket is to make certain that our military forces are truly forces for defense only.

At each session of Congress the question of further naval appropriations comes up. The swivel-chair admirals of Washington (and there are always a lot of them) are very adroit lobbyists. And they are smart. They don't shout that "We need a lot of battleships to war on this nation or that nation." Oh no. First of all, they let it be known that America is menaced by a great naval power. Almost any day, these admirals will tell you, the great fleet of this supposed enemy will strike suddenly and annihilate 125,000,000 people. Just like that. Then they begin to cry for a larger navy. For what? To fight the enemy? Oh my, no. Oh, no. For defense purposes only.

Then, incidentally, they announce maneuvers in the Pacific. For defense. Uh, huh.

The Pacific is a great big ocean. We have a tremendous coastline on the Pacific. Will the maneuvers be off the coast, two or three hundred miles? Oh, no. The maneuvers will be two thousand, yes, perhaps even thirty-five hundred miles, off the coast.

The Japanese, a proud people, of course will be pleased beyond expression to see the united States fleet so close to Nippon's shores. Even as pleased as would be the residents of California were they to dimly discern through the morning mist, the Japanese fleet playing at war games off Los Angeles.

The ships of our navy, it can be seen, should be specifically limited, by law, to within 200 miles of our coastline. Had that been the law in 1898 the Maine would never have gone to Havana Harbor. She never would have been blown up. There would have been no war with Spain with its attendant loss of life. Two hundred miles is ample, in the opinion of experts, for defense purposes. Our nation cannot start an offensive war if its ships can't go further than 200 miles from the coastline. Planes might be permitted to go as far as 500 miles from the coast for purposes of reconnaissance. And the army should never leave the territorial limits of our nation.
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm (http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm)
[End of excerpts]

Pearl Harbor would of never happened if we didn't stop Japans flow of oil. Sure Japan would be the dominant power in the Far East instead of China, make you feel any safer ? Also, BTW did the trade off: Germany for Russia help make you feel safer too ? Another unnecessary war ?

drumcorpssnare: Fast-forward to the Senate hearing where Lt. Col. Oliver North is being grilled by politicians. North touches on the subject of killing Osama Bin Laden. When asked why, North says, "Because I believe he is the most evil man on the face of the earth." Senator Al Gore laughs...and dismisses the concept of assasinating Bin Laden.

If only someone had listened...

10th: Ollie should know, since the CIA and Saudi Arabia Intelligence gave the resistance fighters, Bin Laden and company 6 billion dollars. And that’s just what they admit publicly, so the real figure could be twice as high, or higher.

The sky's the limit...

Not to mention documented "extremist" Islamic training the CIA gave the then, "Freedom Fighters", that we now call terrorists. Am I missing something here: One day they're freedom fighters than the next terrorists. Sounds like somebody is trying to fuk my mind over, how about you ? Some times I think they are just pulling our leg, but when I see Bush, it scares me, I actually think he means it.

drumcorpssnare: Informed Americans today strongly believe that Islamic radicals are determined to eliminate the infidels of the world. They began their "current" Jihad around 25 years ago. It has intensified in the last 5-6 years. Best estimates are that they will not abandon their quest, if or when we withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan. It is likely our enemies will continue killing Americans with renewed vigor. America's "sabre-rattlers" are saying we should intensify our efforts in standing up to these murderous terrorists.

If only someone listens...

10th: Yes, I can just see it now, the Jihads and their huge naval fleets depositing Islamic Marines on the shores of Lake Michigan's North Ave Beach here in Chicago. Honey, you better get your Burqa out, the Jihadi's are coming, I'm calling the NRA.

Mark, you're almost as funny as jinelson and Mike McIntyre http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/29.gif. BTW where the hell have you been Mike, I was getting worried that some Jehadi turned you into "camel chips". You know, that's is now a Violation of the "Patriot Act", animal cruelty.

drumcorpssnare: Your move 10thz. And by the way....Checkmate.

10thz: Right now, I'm more worried about how I'm going to look in my new "Keffiyeh" than being checkmated.

http://www.fotosearch.com/thumb/STK/STK016/STP1180.jpg

drumcorpssnare

SF
10th

P.S. Gotta do some holiday cards before the Islamics ban Christmas, and the misses wants to go shopping too, she says she can't find her burqa now, bye-bye...

[003XXMarineDAD]

Yes it would seem logical that we could wipe them off the map. But in reality it would only happen after two or three commissions had had two years to see just how the government had failed to prevent it. Then it would take a congress that is united , which it would take a act of GOD to make that happen. That will never happen in the current climate we have with the secular progressives that are in power.
So in my view load the ammo and store the food because it will happen.

:D

[jgorosco]

I must warn you, staying the course doesn't work in chess either and if you have any over promoted pawns that look like jgorosco trying to pass themselves off as big bad aviation ordnance pouges you are doomed from above with "gooney bird" sh*t http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/18.gif !


10zzzz first off let me tell you, I am not nor was anything close to being a pougue. Second, compared to you, I am one Bad Azz Mother Fvcker. Oh yeah, I did fire my weapon during my time in the Corps unlike you. Taken any more cruises around Vietnam anymore? Or drank some mojitos in Cuba lately?

On islamic extremist, since you want us to view your left side of news reports try looking into a program that Glenn Beck did on CNN about islamic extremists on how they want to destroy the U.S.

[FistFu68]

:usmc: SUN~MAN,CHECK THIS OUT~MARINE~IT WAS SOMETHING THAT 2d.FORCE RECON~HAD FOR US (PARA~LOFT)BOY'S, FOR AN ADDED PUNCH!!!(LMAO)~MK-54/SADM~LET ME KNOW WHAT 'YA THINK?MARINE~10/4~S/F:usmc:

[drumcorpssnare]

10thz- Putting all the ecenomic/political "behind the scenes" posturing aside...the fact remains, that Japan attacked US; not the other way around.
Hammas blew up OUR Marine Barracks; not the other way around. And the Third Reich...Hitler attacked Poland; not the other way around.
So, your attempt at an "en passe'" has failed. Your pawn- CAPTURED!
Sure, you joke about an Islamic naval fleet sailing into the Windy City. Did you also joke about 9/11? I think not.

BTW, the little clown icon looks just like ya, except it's missing your 'tin-foil hat' that you use to pick up messages from extra-terrestrials with.:D

And finally sir, I maintain....CHECKMATE!

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

[Jon Taylor]

Now I highly doubt that Al Qaeda can get their hands on a nuclear warhead. They're going to need a silo, fuel, equipment, personnel with expertise etc etc, none of which they have and all of which we can easily destroy with a precision tomahawk cruise missile strike.


Well, lets take a look at recent international events. North Korea just recently tested nuclear missiles. Not very strong, or strong in show, but enough to let the world know that they can play ball. So they are now officially a significant threat. Watch this video link (http://www.robpongi.com/pages/combo****INGUSAHI.html) and tell me that Al Qaeda, or any other global terrorist network couldn't have their people meet with North Korea's people and do lunch to discuss something nuclear in nature. Sure, you can launch a Tomahawk cruise missle at it, but what's to say that it's gonna be a Saturn rocket, launched from a known position, and not brought into the U.S. via port and detonated during a football game? Where do they get the money for this device? Most terrorist organizations receive the majority of funding from the U.S., from Muslim conventions held WEEKLY across the U.S. under clever monickers (CAIR specifically, whose top executives have ties to Hamas and Al Qaeda) that channel those funds through third and fourth party launderers to Islamic extremist groups. (Read Steven Emerson's American Jihad for more info.) So the idea is not that far fetched, or denounceable as unplausible. The threat of an NBC attack is not far fetched. That is why it is imperitive that the US and it's allies should be doing everything that is possible to destroy anything that threatens or has the possibility to hurt US citizens and/or interests.

[Jon Taylor]

the link above should be
http://www.robpongi.com/pages/comboF*CKINGUSAHI.html with the * replaced with U to see the video

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: YES 'NUMBA 10~THE JIHADIST'S ARE COMING; TO A MALL;IN YOU'R BACK~YARD!!!LIFE'S A *****~THEN YOU DIE!!!:evilgrin:

[6yrforMar]

Radical Islam really does not care about their own deaths,it just a pathway to heaven for them.Its killing the Infidels that counts for them.Its like during WW2 the Japanese dying for the emperor.The Radical Islamist will be dying for Allah.Do you really think Iran`s President was talking through his Butt when he said he wants to wipe Israel off the map!And the good old USA is Israel`s #1 allie.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

SuN, I realize you probably don't get to be around too many folks as full of *iss and vinegear as us...but I'd advise you, once you get into the fleet, to remember both where, and who, you are and what you represent. Also, be dang careful about whom others refer to as the 'pogues', since you may one day depend on one of them pogues to help you out of a jam. I spent almost my entire career in the FMF, the last two years as a no *hit pogue at HQMC...and was home less there than when I was with a 'victor' unit. I did four years as a 'winger', and know dang good and well how long and hard those guys work.

Lastly, everyone's got an opinion, but dangit, I personally believe you can't see the forest for the trees. You want goodness and light from the USA, which is great, except for the fact that the other guy doesn't play fair...EVER. Eventually, the gloves have to come off, and we have to get serious. If we don't, then I suggest you start studying the Koran, and following it's tenants, because that is what this is coming to. Me, personally, I don't want my daughters to be wearin Burkas. THAT's what I fight for.

[10thzodiac]

By MIKE ROBINSON, <br />
<br />
Associated Press Writer 17 minutes ago <br />
<br />
<br />
CHICAGO - A Muslim convert who talked about his desire to wage jihad against civilians was charged Friday in a plot to set off hand...

[Sgt Leprechaun]

This guy should be immediately executed as an enemy spy on American soil. After the proper trial, of course.

Naturally, none of this will occur, but it would be nice.

[jryanjack]

SuN, I realize you probably don't get to be around too many folks as full of *iss and vinegear as us...but I'd advise you, once you get into the fleet, to remember both where, and who, you are and what you represent. Also, be dang careful about whom others refer to as the 'pogues', since you may one day depend on one of them pogues to help you out of a jam. I spent almost my entire career in the FMF, the last two years as a no *hit pogue at HQMC...and was home less there than when I was with a 'victor' unit. I did four years as a 'winger', and know dang good and well how long and hard those guys work.

Lastly, everyone's got an opinion, but dangit, I personally believe you can't see the forest for the trees. You want goodness and light from the USA, which is great, except for the fact that the other guy doesn't play fair...EVER. Eventually, the gloves have to come off, and we have to get serious. If we don't, then I suggest you start studying the Koran, and following it's tenants, because that is what this is coming to. Me, personally, I don't want my daughters to be wearin Burkas. THAT's what I fight for.

Outstanding post - best I've read on this thread. Its a shame that we cannot all express our differing opinions using this level of tact.

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: TERROR AGAINST TERROR~WE SHOULD START SENDING OUR BOY'S INTO IRAN & SYRIA~THE (C.I.A.)~TEN CAR'S A DAY FULL OF C-4;AND START CHAOS~ON A MAJOR SCALE!!! PHOENIX~PROGRAM STYLE!WHEN WE STARTED PULLING THAT CHIT ON THE GOOK'S,THEY STARTED SCREAMING FOUL!!! LIVE BY THE SWORD~DIE BY THE SWORD! AMEN!!!:devious:

[yellowwing]

As a Country there are many options. As an active duty Marine you only have one option, Do Your Job. :usmc: :flag:

[SkilletsUSMC]

SuN, I realize you probably don't get to be around too many folks as full of *iss and vinegear as us...but I'd advise you, once you get into the fleet, to remember both where, and who, you are and what you represent. Also, be dang careful about whom others refer to as the 'pogues', since you may one day depend on one of them pogues to help you out of a jam. I spent almost my entire career in the FMF, the last two years as a no *hit pogue at HQMC...and was home less there than when I was with a 'victor' unit. I did four years as a 'winger', and know dang good and well how long and hard those guys work.

Lastly, everyone's got an opinion, but dangit, I personally believe you can't see the forest for the trees. You want goodness and light from the USA, which is great, except for the fact that the other guy doesn't play fair...EVER. Eventually, the gloves have to come off, and we have to get serious. If we don't, then I suggest you start studying the Koran, and following it's tenants, because that is what this is coming to. Me, personally, I don't want my daughters to be wearin Burkas. THAT's what I fight for.

In SuN's defence I am pretty sure he has never called anybody a POG(pouge) on this forum. If i remember correctly he is Motor T. I know this is sidetracking the topic, but I dont think "pouge" applys as much as it did pre OIF. Nowadays the guys catching all the jokes are the FOBBITS.:D Anyone who regularly goes outside the wire gets a big thumbs up from me:thumbup: No matter his MOS.

[DWG]

Since the government has announced our surrender in Iraq I see only one possible solution; partition. Divide the country back into the Ottoman empires they were before Iraq became a country-let the sunnis, shi ites and Kurds have their own areas. Spend a year training a national guard for each region, devise a plan to regulate and divide oil revenues via a small central governing body in Baghdad and let them know we are going home. Let them know that we will do nothing to help them when Syria and Iran invade, which they will do within months. Then let's see who gets serious about "suiting up" and standing tall. There is no longer any point in wasting our troops on a slow surrender policy put forth by the Baker report. Train their troops and cops, stay out of the field and prepare to reinvade in ten years to take the oil fields (for real this time). We were told that this fight would takle years, perhaps generations, but this country is not prepared for going the distance anymore and will never be, given the media and partisan politics of the dems. When political power becomes more important to a party than national survival that party has invalidated it's right to rule. Unfortunately, by promising to open the borders and the treasury to the down-trodden, they will continue to be elected. Arm up, we'll be fighting them in our own streets soon.

[SkilletsUSMC]

When political power becomes more important to a party than national survival that party has invalidated it's right to rule. Unfortunately, by promising to open the borders and the treasury to the down-trodden, they will continue to be elected. Arm up, we'll be fighting them in our own streets soon.

+1:thumbup:

[SuNmAN]

:usmc: SUN~MAN,CHECK THIS OUT~MARINE~IT WAS SOMETHING THAT 2d.FORCE RECON~HAD FOR US (PARA~LOFT)BOY'S, FOR AN ADDED PUNCH!!!(LMAO)~MK-54/SADM~LET ME KNOW WHAT 'YA THINK?MARINE~10/4~S/F:usmc:

???

[SuNmAN]

SuN, I realize you probably don't get to be around too many folks as full of *iss and vinegear as us...but I'd advise you, once you get into the fleet, to remember both where, and who, you are and what you represent. Also, be dang careful about whom others refer to as the 'pogues', since you may one day depend on one of them pogues to help you out of a jam. I spent almost my entire career in the FMF, the last two years as a no *hit pogue at HQMC...and was home less there than when I was with a 'victor' unit. I did four years as a 'winger', and know dang good and well how long and hard those guys work.

Lastly, everyone's got an opinion, but dangit, I personally believe you can't see the forest for the trees. You want goodness and light from the USA, which is great, except for the fact that the other guy doesn't play fair...EVER. Eventually, the gloves have to come off, and we have to get serious. If we don't, then I suggest you start studying the Koran, and following it's tenants, because that is what this is coming to. Me, personally, I don't want my daughters to be wearin Burkas. THAT's what I fight for.

I never used the word "pogue" on this site you're confusing me with someone else.

[yellowwing]

http://www.ywg-web.com/images/popcorn.gif
Get you nickel's worth! :banana:

[10thzodiac]

[Quote jgorosco] " I am one Bad Azz Mother Fvcker. Oh yeah, I did fire my weapon during my time in the Corps unlike you." [End Quote]

As for the me, I'd want to be a poge in the office, especially if this is what happens to you (above) being around depleted uranium ordnance too often, especially the "Mother Fvcker" part http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif

SF
10th

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Thanks JRyan, for the kind words...

And, SuN, never said you did...re-read my posting...Skillets is right, in this war, the only true 'pogues' in this war are the fobbits....

[Chewy]

As a Country there are many options. As an active duty Marine you only have one option, Do Your Job. :usmc: :flag:
Roger that!!!!

[outlaw3179]

As for the me, I'd want to be a poge in the office[/U], especially if this is what happens to you (above) being around depleted uranium ordnance too often, especially the "Mother Fvcker" part http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif

SF
10th


Of course youd want to be in the office Zodiac. and why would that surprise anyone. Thank God though , cuz then no Marine would have to worry about you watching their six.

[SuNmAN]

Of course youd want to be in the office Zodiac. and why would that surprise anyone. Thank God though , cuz then no Marine would have to worry about you watching their six.


His political viewpoints has NOTHING to do with his competence in a combat situation.

[outlaw3179]

Ok....where in my statement did I say anything about his political views. My statements were based on his character and lack of confidence I would have in his ability if he was in my fireteam and I had to depend on him to get me home. Dont confuse the two . Its too bad that you think your so smart and you have all the answers but you lack the vision to see that if your Marines dont trust you or cant depend on you then you are worth nothing. I dont care what your sorority sisters think about you, or how big of a war hero you go around telling people you are or you will be, I would not want you in my fireteam I would not want you to provide security for me and I definetly would not place my life in your hands.

[10thzodiac]

Of course youd want to be in the office Zodiac. and why would that surprise anyone. Thank God though , cuz then no Marine would have to worry about you watching their six.

Next time you can have the point outlaw3179, I'll stay in the office and make sure you get all your "DF medals."

I bet it was all those hot dogs you ate when you were a kid, right ? http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif

SF
10th

[Sgt Leprechaun]

DF medals?

[outlaw3179]

no impact / no idea

[jgorosco]

As for the me, I'd want to be a poge in the office, especially if this is what happens to you (above) being around depleted uranium ordnance too often, especially the "Mother Fvcker" part http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif


Thanks For the Compliment 10zzzzzzz's. I knew you would end up liking me in the end. And yes I am, along with all my Other fellow Ordies and I guess some of you groundpounders, A Bad MotherFvcker!! Too bad your time was wasted sailing the coast of Vietnam watching from the outside or sunbathing in Cuba. Come to think of it 10zzzzz, I think you might be one of those guys from the Sh*tbird Platoon, cause every story you have has to deal with some sort of sh*tbird!
Maybe one option could be to send 10zzzz strapped with a suicide vest and terminate the terrorists. That way we could kill two birds with one stone!!

[SuNmAN]

Ok....where in my statement did I say anything about his political views. My statements were based on his character and lack of confidence I would have in his ability if he was in my fireteam and I had to depend on him to get me home. Dont confuse the two . Its too bad that you think your so smart and you have all the answers but you lack the vision to see that if your Marines dont trust you or cant depend on you then you are worth nothing. I dont care what your sorority sisters think about you, or how big of a war hero you go around telling people you are or you will be, I would not want you in my fireteam I would not want you to provide security for me and I definetly would not place my life in your hands.


dude you don't know me how can you judge based on an internet forum?

shows how closed minded you are

#1 I'm not in a fraternaty
#2 I NEVER tell people I'm a war hero or will I be

[outlaw3179]

I dont know...I guess its just one of those things you pick up after being in the Marine Corps a few years. You learn very quickly wich one of your Marines are going to be problem children, wich ones will stand out and wich ones you have to baby and codlle. You really dont fit into any of them. Id just have to make sure you didnt kill any of my good ones. Semper Fi Marine.

[SuNmAN]

I dont know...I guess its just one of those things you pick up after being in the Marine Corps a few years. You learn very quickly wich one of your Marines are going to be problem children, wich ones will stand out and wich ones you have to baby and codlle. You really dont fit into any of them. Id just have to make sure you didnt kill any of my good ones. Semper Fi Marine.


I'm sure since you know me so well and have seen me do my job and are making your judgement solely on my political opinion.

[SuNmAN]

Thanks For the Compliment 10zzzzzzz's. I knew you would end up liking me in the end. And yes I am, along with all my Other fellow Ordies and I guess some of you groundpounders, A Bad MotherFvcker!! Too bad your time was wasted sailing the coast of Vietnam watching from the outside or sunbathing in Cuba. Come to think of it 10zzzzz, I think you might be one of those guys from the Sh*tbird Platoon, cause every story you have has to deal with some sort of sh*tbird!
Maybe one option could be to send 10zzzz strapped with a suicide vest and terminate the terrorists. That way we could kill two birds with one stone!!


sweet life dude.

[jgorosco]

SunniMan...When I direct a comment to you then comment. Until then stay out of grown folks business. Isn't finals coming up? Maybe you should be studying instead of trying to be a political and war analyst, DUDE!

[Chewy]

His political viewpoints has NOTHING to do with his competence in a combat situation.AND YOU KNOW ABOUT COMBAT SITUATIONS? I THINK NOT

[SuNmAN]

AND YOU KNOW ABOUT COMBAT SITUATIONS? I THINK NOT

I know enough about combat situations to know that then the bullets are flying overhead, I don't care if the Marine next to me is Democrat or Republican, supports Bush or Kerry, pro-war or anti-war.

All I care is that he will fight hard alongside me so we both get out alive.

[SuNmAN]

SunniMan...When I direct a comment to you then comment. Until then stay out of grown folks business. Isn't finals coming up? Maybe you should be studying instead of trying to be a political and war analyst, DUDE!


you should've attended school so you don't sound ignorant in every post. Every Marine here can tell that.

[jgorosco]

Your right I should have attended school, maybe a liberal school like you. Then maybe we could be best buds. We could holds hands around a fire and sing Cumbaya! Wouldn't that be great!! Another thing you shouldv'e viewed my profile before commenting NumbNuts!

[SuNmAN]

Your right I should have attended school, maybe a liberal school like you. Then maybe we could be best buds. We could holds hands around a fire and sing Cumbaya! Wouldn't that be great!! Another thing you shouldv'e viewed my profile before commenting NumbNuts!


ok, well I'm done arguing with you this forum isn't a place for personal attacks

you want to attack me, send me a PM.

[DWG]

Can't we all just get along?:cry: lol

[jgorosco]

Wow, trying to take the high road. I had no problems with you from the beginning it was with 10z. And wasn't it you that was attacking me?

[SuNmAN]

Wow, trying to take the high road. I had no problems with you from the beginning it was with 10z. And wasn't it you that was attacking me?


its not that

its just that I don't want to be banned lol

[jgorosco]

Not gonna happen. I won't let it happen if I can. Nothing wrong with talking sh*t to one another.

[outlaw3179]

sniffle sniffle :(

[SuNmAN]

I hope your definition of DFMs are not referring to Medals awarded for combat valor such as the Bronze/Silver Star, Navy/DS/AF Cross and the MoH...

[10thzodiac]

Sorry Sarge, tried to have admin delete that post last evening, but they haven't http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/06.gif

I'm glad it wasn't a grenade in your slit trench http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/34.gif

Stay low

SF
10th

[10thzodiac]

I hope your definition of DFMs are not referring to Medals awarded for combat valor such as the Bronze/Silver Star, Navy/DS/AF Cross and the MoH...

No, its primarily awarded to backstabbers http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif

[Sgt Leprechaun]

10th, never heard of that one....and I didn't take it personal LOL. But, thanks for the mea culpa regardless....

[10thzodiac]

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif Yo, subject of abuse

<HR style="COLOR: #ccccff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by SuNmAN
I hope your definition of DFMs are not referring to Medals awarded for combat valor such as the Bronze/Silver Star, Navy/DS/AF Cross and the MoH...

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

No, its primarily awarded to fools and backstabbers http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif