Sgt Leprechaun
12-02-06, 09:31 AM
The link is here:
http://intraining.typepad.com/in_training/2006/11/you_are_not_wel.html
You are not welcome here
That's what the Walkabout (http://www.walkabout.eu.com/010/LIV/intro.html) bar in Liverpool, England told two Royal Marine Commandos who wanted a drink after their fellow Commando's funeral (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23375795-details/Soldiers%20turned%20away%20from%20bar%20after%20fu neral/article.do).
-- "Two Royal Marines were refused entry to a bar just hours after a colleague's funeral because they were in uniform. The two servicemen went for a drink at the Walkabout bar in Liverpool city centre following the funeral of Corporal Ben Nowak (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/regionalnews/tm_headline=funeral-held-for-hero-liverpool-marine&method=full&objectid=18147423&siteid=50061-name_page.html) at the city's Anglican cathedral.
Cpl Nowak, 27, who served with 45 Commando, was one of four people killed in a bomb attack on a patrol boat in southern Iraq on Remembrance Sunday. His two colleagues, who were among 1,000 mourners at yesterday's funeral, were turned away by staff at the door of the bar."
The only good part of the story is how the people around reacted:
-- "Stunned bystanders shouted at the bouncers and told them to show respect to the servicemen. Student Ben Booth, who witnessed the event, said he was shocked by what he saw. He told BBC Radio Merseyside's phone-in show: "I spoke to the bouncers and said their colleague had just died in the service of our Government. I am absolutely shocked that people would act this way to our soldiers."
You tell 'em Ben! What did the slimy gits have to say for themselves?
-- "As a responsible bar operator, we have a strict policy of refusing entry to anyone believed to be aggressive.
"Furthermore, Walkabout in Liverpool has a strict policy of refusing entry to anyone in uniform due to previous issues with uniformed customers. These policies are designed solely to increase the safety and comfort of all our customers.
"Two of the group were in uniform and doorstaff believed that other members of the group were behaving aggressively, so they were refused admission."
The spokesman offered his condolences to Cpl Nowak's friends, comrades and family and offered the group who were turned away a complimentary lunch. He stressed the soldiers must not be in uniform."
It's funny that the bystanders didn't seem to mind our brave troops going into the bar. It's funny that they said they should be able to go in. Didn't seem like they were frightened for their lives.
"Condolences" are not enough. What has the Walkabout done for our troops lately? Or ever. I don't happen to be over there quite yet, but when I am, I will never step foot in a Walkabout. And I'll make sure that nobody I know does either.
*** Update ***
I decided to give the Walkabout a call (http://www.walkabout.eu.com/010/LIV/intro.html) to see what I could find out. I spoke with Jack, and he assured me that they were turning away everyone that night, not just the Marines.
He also said that they've been having a terrible weekend. I'm so very happy about that because it shows that even in the U.K. (where they are not as patriotic and troop supportive as the U.S.) when you offend the troops who are fighting for our lives, you pay for it.
I tentatively suggested that the Walkabout do something supportive of the troops to show that they care about them and this was all a mistake - Jack said there was a big meeting with corporate soon to decide that very thing. We'll see, I guess.
Part II
You are not welcome here part II
This is a continuation of my previous post (http://intraining.typepad.com/in_training/2006/11/you_are_not_wel.html), about the two Royal Marine Commandos turned away from a Walkabout bar in Liverpool (http://www.walkabout.eu.com/010/LIV/intro.html) for being in uniform (they were in uniform because they had attended the funeral of a fallen Royal Marine).
I was at work when I read the article, researched a bit, wrote the post, and called the bar in England. Because of being at work, I didn't elaborate as much as I would have liked to on my conversation with Jack. Jack was the employee of Walkabout in Liverpool that I spoke with, my first reporting of that conversation follows:
-- "I decided to give the Walkabout a call (http://www.walkabout.eu.com/010/LIV/intro.html) to see what I could find out. I spoke with Jack, and he assured me that they were turning away everyone that night, not just the Marines.
He also said that they've been having a terrible weekend. I'm so very happy about that because it shows that even in the U.K. (where they are not as patriotic and troop supportive as the U.S.) when you offend the troops who are fighting for our lives, you pay for it.
I tentatively suggested that the Walkabout do something supportive of the troops to show that they care about them and this was all a mistake - Jack said there was a big meeting with corporate soon to decide that very thing. We'll see, I guess."
I'd like to add that Jack said that the Marines showed up at 10 minutes to 2:00 in the morning - 2:00 am being their closing time - and that the bar was turning everyone away. This strikes me as odd for two reasons:
1. The articles say that the Marines were turned away not long after the funeral of their fallen soldier. Jack says it was 2:00 am.
2. I've had experience with RMs, and though they are proud to wear their beautiful blues when the occasion calls for it, they absolutely dislike wearing them otherwise. The uniforms are hot and heavy, quite uncomfortable. I wasn't there to witness any of this, but the Royal Marines I know don't run around town in their dress blues. Not for long anyway.
Jack also said (when I asked) that the Walkabout would let uniformed soldiers in, and that they were "for the military." This is in direct opposition to the corporate office's official statement that has appeared in all of the articles:
-- "Furthermore, Walkabout in Liverpool has a strict policy of refusing entry to anyone in uniform due to previous issues with uniformed customers. These policies are designed solely to increase the safety and comfort of all our customers.
"Two of the group were in uniform and doorstaff believed that other members of the group were behaving aggressively, so they were refused admission."
The spokesman offered his condolences to Cpl Nowak's friends, comrades and family and offered the group who were turned away a complimentary lunch. He stressed the soldiers must not be in uniform."
I have personally emailed most of the contact emails on the Walkabout website (http://www.walkabout.eu.com/080contact.html), including the Liverpool branch, Liverpool@walkabout.eu.com (Liverpool@walkabout.eu.com). Haven't received an answer yet, but it was late England time when I wrote. If I do hear back from anyone, I will certainly post it.
I encourage anyone who has the time to email as well - let them know we don't just stand up for "our" guys!
*** 11/28/06 Update ***
Heard back from Walkabout via email, seems they are flip-floppers:
-- "Thank you for your recent correspondence concerning the incident that took place at Walkabout Liverpool last week. We have received a large number of emails on this matter and we will be reviewing them in the days that follow.
In order to provide you with a speedy response to your email, we sincerely hope that you will accept this open email as an explanation of the specific circumstances surrounding the recent incident in Liverpool and clarification of the company's policy towards uniformed service personnel.
The Licensing Act of 2003 places clear responsibility upon all of our venue teams to ensure that all of our customers can enjoy a safe experience. The careful screening of customers at the door entry point is critical to achieving this objective. Nevertheless, Walkabout does not have a nationwide policy concerning the admittance of uniformed service personnel. On any given night and at any given venue our door team, in consultation with the general manager on duty, is asked to make a judgement on safety grounds as to whether it is appropriate or not to admit any customer.
On the night in question, our door staff took the decision to refuse entry to the group in light of specific incidents that had taken place in the city that evening. Regrettably, in our experience, some members of the public do not always respond favourably to service personnel drinking whilst in uniform. To help put this recent incident into context, in the past six months the Liverpool Walkabout has had three incidents where the safety of both uniformed service personnel and other customers was compromised. Additionally, in October 2005 a serviceman (in civilian clothing) was involved in an incident which sadly resulted in his death.
We deeply regret that this incident has caused considerable upset to you, Cpl Nowak's family, friends, comrades and all British servicemen. We are extremely respectful of the work carried out by our service personnel at home and overseas.
We sincerely hope that you appreciate our position."
Once they make up their minds, I will STILL not be using their services. You can "regret" it all you want, but until I see Walkabout make an effort to SUPPORT their troops, I'm out.
Comment update - for those who didn't see in the comments in my earlier post - Charlie, a Royal Marine Commado wife (he has just left to serve in Afghanistan) and author of Baby Life Dog Days (http://www.cavilli.blogspot.com/) noted this:
"Walkabout have a rep for this, I know my 'royal' and his mates have been turned away from local ones because they looked too 'military.'"
Classy.
Part III
You are not welcome here part III
And hopefully final update. Unless there are good things to report!
Background: Part One (http://intraining.typepad.com/in_training/2006/11/you_are_not_wel.html)
Part Two (http://intraining.typepad.com/in_training/2006/11/you_are_not_wel_1.html)
I emailed Walkabout, they emailed back, I emailed back to tell them their email wasn't good enough (the Walkabout email can be found in Part Two). I was a little surprised this morning to find another email from Walkabout in my inbox. Here it is:
Dear Kathy
Many thanks for your recent email to our website. We have posted a statement (http://www.walkaboutinns.com/12uniformed.html) onto the homepage of the walkabout website clarifying our policy, expressing regret for the upset caused and welcoming the marines back for a free lunch, in uniform.
It reads as follows:
CHANGE OF POLICY REGARDING UNIFORMED PERSONNEL
In light of a regrettable incident that occurred in Liverpool last week when two Royal Marines were not allowed into the bar, we wanted to clarify our policy:
There is no national policy banning uniformed service personnel. There was a non-uniform policy in Liverpool due to three incidents in the last six months where the safety of uniformed personnel was compromised. However, further to recent feedback we have revised this policy and the uniform ban in Liverpool has been lifted, bringing it in-line with the rest of our bars.
Futhermore, we welcome the group of marines that were turned away back to the bar for a free lunch in full uniform.
We deeply regret that this incident has caused upset to Cpl Nowak's family, friends and comrades and want to re-iterate that all service personnel are welcome at all of our bars.
------------------------
Whilst I understand the fierce reaction to the misinformed reports that there was a blanket ban on service personnel across our business, I hope you will welcome this clarification of our position.
Kind regards
Simon Kaye
Commercial Director
Regent Inns
I added the website with the policy change statement (http://www.walkaboutinns.com/12uniformed.html) into the first paragraph.
I kinda hope that any and every Royal Marine Commando in the local area shows up in their beautiful blue blues - even though I know they only wear them on genuinely special occasions.
It is nice that they took the trouble to email me back, again. I definitely was, as Mr. Kaye says "fierce." And that is the way that I will always be in regard to our fighting best! Thank you to everyone who posted about this, and everyone that took the time to contact Walkabout! They just need to offer a military discount to make me really happy :o)
And, lastly, from an American reader of "Blackfive" (link is here: http://www.blackfive.net/main/2006/11/unwelcome_in_am.html#more )
So, yeah. It's still going on. And, no doubt, will continue.
Hi Grim,
I read your posting today about the Royal Marine being refused service in a local pub. My son was refused service in his hometown when he showed his military ID. He was home after his 1<SUP>st</SUP> deployment to Iraq (he has been 2 more times) over the 4<SUP>th</SUP> of July. I will never get over what happened to him. I did raise hell and the bartender was terminated but the damage was done as far as my son looking at his hometown the same. I was ashamed. He was also called a baby killer by someone in the very same bar that saw his ID…….Unbelievable. I find myself getting upset once again writing this. I have nothing but the deepest respect for what our fine young men and women are doing; they should not have to put up with some of the garbage they are facing. Nothing makes me angrier or more ashamed of some of my fellow Americans. Thank you for what you do, it gives me hopeJ God Bless America and our soldiers. Robyn Giacoletti
<!-- technorati tags -->
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http://intraining.typepad.com/in_training/2006/11/you_are_not_wel.html
You are not welcome here
That's what the Walkabout (http://www.walkabout.eu.com/010/LIV/intro.html) bar in Liverpool, England told two Royal Marine Commandos who wanted a drink after their fellow Commando's funeral (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23375795-details/Soldiers%20turned%20away%20from%20bar%20after%20fu neral/article.do).
-- "Two Royal Marines were refused entry to a bar just hours after a colleague's funeral because they were in uniform. The two servicemen went for a drink at the Walkabout bar in Liverpool city centre following the funeral of Corporal Ben Nowak (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/regionalnews/tm_headline=funeral-held-for-hero-liverpool-marine&method=full&objectid=18147423&siteid=50061-name_page.html) at the city's Anglican cathedral.
Cpl Nowak, 27, who served with 45 Commando, was one of four people killed in a bomb attack on a patrol boat in southern Iraq on Remembrance Sunday. His two colleagues, who were among 1,000 mourners at yesterday's funeral, were turned away by staff at the door of the bar."
The only good part of the story is how the people around reacted:
-- "Stunned bystanders shouted at the bouncers and told them to show respect to the servicemen. Student Ben Booth, who witnessed the event, said he was shocked by what he saw. He told BBC Radio Merseyside's phone-in show: "I spoke to the bouncers and said their colleague had just died in the service of our Government. I am absolutely shocked that people would act this way to our soldiers."
You tell 'em Ben! What did the slimy gits have to say for themselves?
-- "As a responsible bar operator, we have a strict policy of refusing entry to anyone believed to be aggressive.
"Furthermore, Walkabout in Liverpool has a strict policy of refusing entry to anyone in uniform due to previous issues with uniformed customers. These policies are designed solely to increase the safety and comfort of all our customers.
"Two of the group were in uniform and doorstaff believed that other members of the group were behaving aggressively, so they were refused admission."
The spokesman offered his condolences to Cpl Nowak's friends, comrades and family and offered the group who were turned away a complimentary lunch. He stressed the soldiers must not be in uniform."
It's funny that the bystanders didn't seem to mind our brave troops going into the bar. It's funny that they said they should be able to go in. Didn't seem like they were frightened for their lives.
"Condolences" are not enough. What has the Walkabout done for our troops lately? Or ever. I don't happen to be over there quite yet, but when I am, I will never step foot in a Walkabout. And I'll make sure that nobody I know does either.
*** Update ***
I decided to give the Walkabout a call (http://www.walkabout.eu.com/010/LIV/intro.html) to see what I could find out. I spoke with Jack, and he assured me that they were turning away everyone that night, not just the Marines.
He also said that they've been having a terrible weekend. I'm so very happy about that because it shows that even in the U.K. (where they are not as patriotic and troop supportive as the U.S.) when you offend the troops who are fighting for our lives, you pay for it.
I tentatively suggested that the Walkabout do something supportive of the troops to show that they care about them and this was all a mistake - Jack said there was a big meeting with corporate soon to decide that very thing. We'll see, I guess.
Part II
You are not welcome here part II
This is a continuation of my previous post (http://intraining.typepad.com/in_training/2006/11/you_are_not_wel.html), about the two Royal Marine Commandos turned away from a Walkabout bar in Liverpool (http://www.walkabout.eu.com/010/LIV/intro.html) for being in uniform (they were in uniform because they had attended the funeral of a fallen Royal Marine).
I was at work when I read the article, researched a bit, wrote the post, and called the bar in England. Because of being at work, I didn't elaborate as much as I would have liked to on my conversation with Jack. Jack was the employee of Walkabout in Liverpool that I spoke with, my first reporting of that conversation follows:
-- "I decided to give the Walkabout a call (http://www.walkabout.eu.com/010/LIV/intro.html) to see what I could find out. I spoke with Jack, and he assured me that they were turning away everyone that night, not just the Marines.
He also said that they've been having a terrible weekend. I'm so very happy about that because it shows that even in the U.K. (where they are not as patriotic and troop supportive as the U.S.) when you offend the troops who are fighting for our lives, you pay for it.
I tentatively suggested that the Walkabout do something supportive of the troops to show that they care about them and this was all a mistake - Jack said there was a big meeting with corporate soon to decide that very thing. We'll see, I guess."
I'd like to add that Jack said that the Marines showed up at 10 minutes to 2:00 in the morning - 2:00 am being their closing time - and that the bar was turning everyone away. This strikes me as odd for two reasons:
1. The articles say that the Marines were turned away not long after the funeral of their fallen soldier. Jack says it was 2:00 am.
2. I've had experience with RMs, and though they are proud to wear their beautiful blues when the occasion calls for it, they absolutely dislike wearing them otherwise. The uniforms are hot and heavy, quite uncomfortable. I wasn't there to witness any of this, but the Royal Marines I know don't run around town in their dress blues. Not for long anyway.
Jack also said (when I asked) that the Walkabout would let uniformed soldiers in, and that they were "for the military." This is in direct opposition to the corporate office's official statement that has appeared in all of the articles:
-- "Furthermore, Walkabout in Liverpool has a strict policy of refusing entry to anyone in uniform due to previous issues with uniformed customers. These policies are designed solely to increase the safety and comfort of all our customers.
"Two of the group were in uniform and doorstaff believed that other members of the group were behaving aggressively, so they were refused admission."
The spokesman offered his condolences to Cpl Nowak's friends, comrades and family and offered the group who were turned away a complimentary lunch. He stressed the soldiers must not be in uniform."
I have personally emailed most of the contact emails on the Walkabout website (http://www.walkabout.eu.com/080contact.html), including the Liverpool branch, Liverpool@walkabout.eu.com (Liverpool@walkabout.eu.com). Haven't received an answer yet, but it was late England time when I wrote. If I do hear back from anyone, I will certainly post it.
I encourage anyone who has the time to email as well - let them know we don't just stand up for "our" guys!
*** 11/28/06 Update ***
Heard back from Walkabout via email, seems they are flip-floppers:
-- "Thank you for your recent correspondence concerning the incident that took place at Walkabout Liverpool last week. We have received a large number of emails on this matter and we will be reviewing them in the days that follow.
In order to provide you with a speedy response to your email, we sincerely hope that you will accept this open email as an explanation of the specific circumstances surrounding the recent incident in Liverpool and clarification of the company's policy towards uniformed service personnel.
The Licensing Act of 2003 places clear responsibility upon all of our venue teams to ensure that all of our customers can enjoy a safe experience. The careful screening of customers at the door entry point is critical to achieving this objective. Nevertheless, Walkabout does not have a nationwide policy concerning the admittance of uniformed service personnel. On any given night and at any given venue our door team, in consultation with the general manager on duty, is asked to make a judgement on safety grounds as to whether it is appropriate or not to admit any customer.
On the night in question, our door staff took the decision to refuse entry to the group in light of specific incidents that had taken place in the city that evening. Regrettably, in our experience, some members of the public do not always respond favourably to service personnel drinking whilst in uniform. To help put this recent incident into context, in the past six months the Liverpool Walkabout has had three incidents where the safety of both uniformed service personnel and other customers was compromised. Additionally, in October 2005 a serviceman (in civilian clothing) was involved in an incident which sadly resulted in his death.
We deeply regret that this incident has caused considerable upset to you, Cpl Nowak's family, friends, comrades and all British servicemen. We are extremely respectful of the work carried out by our service personnel at home and overseas.
We sincerely hope that you appreciate our position."
Once they make up their minds, I will STILL not be using their services. You can "regret" it all you want, but until I see Walkabout make an effort to SUPPORT their troops, I'm out.
Comment update - for those who didn't see in the comments in my earlier post - Charlie, a Royal Marine Commado wife (he has just left to serve in Afghanistan) and author of Baby Life Dog Days (http://www.cavilli.blogspot.com/) noted this:
"Walkabout have a rep for this, I know my 'royal' and his mates have been turned away from local ones because they looked too 'military.'"
Classy.
Part III
You are not welcome here part III
And hopefully final update. Unless there are good things to report!
Background: Part One (http://intraining.typepad.com/in_training/2006/11/you_are_not_wel.html)
Part Two (http://intraining.typepad.com/in_training/2006/11/you_are_not_wel_1.html)
I emailed Walkabout, they emailed back, I emailed back to tell them their email wasn't good enough (the Walkabout email can be found in Part Two). I was a little surprised this morning to find another email from Walkabout in my inbox. Here it is:
Dear Kathy
Many thanks for your recent email to our website. We have posted a statement (http://www.walkaboutinns.com/12uniformed.html) onto the homepage of the walkabout website clarifying our policy, expressing regret for the upset caused and welcoming the marines back for a free lunch, in uniform.
It reads as follows:
CHANGE OF POLICY REGARDING UNIFORMED PERSONNEL
In light of a regrettable incident that occurred in Liverpool last week when two Royal Marines were not allowed into the bar, we wanted to clarify our policy:
There is no national policy banning uniformed service personnel. There was a non-uniform policy in Liverpool due to three incidents in the last six months where the safety of uniformed personnel was compromised. However, further to recent feedback we have revised this policy and the uniform ban in Liverpool has been lifted, bringing it in-line with the rest of our bars.
Futhermore, we welcome the group of marines that were turned away back to the bar for a free lunch in full uniform.
We deeply regret that this incident has caused upset to Cpl Nowak's family, friends and comrades and want to re-iterate that all service personnel are welcome at all of our bars.
------------------------
Whilst I understand the fierce reaction to the misinformed reports that there was a blanket ban on service personnel across our business, I hope you will welcome this clarification of our position.
Kind regards
Simon Kaye
Commercial Director
Regent Inns
I added the website with the policy change statement (http://www.walkaboutinns.com/12uniformed.html) into the first paragraph.
I kinda hope that any and every Royal Marine Commando in the local area shows up in their beautiful blue blues - even though I know they only wear them on genuinely special occasions.
It is nice that they took the trouble to email me back, again. I definitely was, as Mr. Kaye says "fierce." And that is the way that I will always be in regard to our fighting best! Thank you to everyone who posted about this, and everyone that took the time to contact Walkabout! They just need to offer a military discount to make me really happy :o)
And, lastly, from an American reader of "Blackfive" (link is here: http://www.blackfive.net/main/2006/11/unwelcome_in_am.html#more )
So, yeah. It's still going on. And, no doubt, will continue.
Hi Grim,
I read your posting today about the Royal Marine being refused service in a local pub. My son was refused service in his hometown when he showed his military ID. He was home after his 1<SUP>st</SUP> deployment to Iraq (he has been 2 more times) over the 4<SUP>th</SUP> of July. I will never get over what happened to him. I did raise hell and the bartender was terminated but the damage was done as far as my son looking at his hometown the same. I was ashamed. He was also called a baby killer by someone in the very same bar that saw his ID…….Unbelievable. I find myself getting upset once again writing this. I have nothing but the deepest respect for what our fine young men and women are doing; they should not have to put up with some of the garbage they are facing. Nothing makes me angrier or more ashamed of some of my fellow Americans. Thank you for what you do, it gives me hopeJ God Bless America and our soldiers. Robyn Giacoletti
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