View Full Version : Bill would mandate jail time for wearing fake medals or lying about being a veteran
thedrifter
12-01-06, 10:50 AM
Bill would mandate jail time for wearing fake medals or lying about being a veteran <br />
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By Leo Shane III, Stars and Stripes <br />
Mideast edition, Friday, December 1, 2006 <br />
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WASHINGTON — Supporters of a...
jinelson
12-01-06, 11:48 AM
With the democrats in control and their obivious dislike for our military do you think that this bill has a chance of ever getting out of committee to a floor vote? I dont. I do find it very ironic that the original bill was written and sponsored by a democrat.
Jim
Ridgerunner
12-01-06, 12:28 PM
I am not in favor of more laws. I don't support fakes displaying awards either. This opens a can of worms for a variety of reaons. Fakes eventually get their just rewards in one way or another. We have so many laws governing our lives now that we can't hardly fart. Additionally, someone that is not deserving is bound to get caught up in this at some point and injustices done. What would be a better suggestion would be to have to prove service to purchase, replace or otherwise be able to obtain awards, ribbons or medals in the first place along with removing them from sale from sites such as Ebay and other such online sites.
Sgt Leprechaun
12-02-06, 07:39 AM
As a long time militaria collector, I have to disagree with Ridgerunner. Removing ribbons and medals for purchase by the average, law abiding citizen simply creates more 'lawbreakers' than the few idiots it actually prosecutes. I have an extensive collection of US Military medals, up to and including the Navy Cross and Army DSC...none of which I wear, or claim to have earned.
Instead of adding new laws to the books, use the laws we currently have...it's illegal to wear a uniform, or even parts thereof, if you aren't in the military. It's illegal to wear medals and insignia you don't rate. It's NOT illegal, at present, to buy anything except the MOH (it's basically illegal to even buy the medal ribbon of the MOH, or even possess one if you don't rate it). Thus, because of that, a ribbon that years ago could be had by any collector for around 20-30 dollars, (depending on how old the ribbon was and what era it was from) is now going for 2-300 bucks..or more. So, they are still being sold and traded, it's just underground. The law abiding folks among us will do the 'right' thing if this law passes, thus allowing the people who are, and always have been, on the 'shady' side of things, to profit even further.
I, too, despise people claiming to be veterans and claiming awards they don't rate, but the solution is vigourous enforcement of the law, and better investigative reporting by so called 'journalists' (instead of just taking these yahoos at face value and never fact checking their stories) instead of draconian measures like this.
thedrifter
12-02-06, 08:00 AM
December 01, 2006
Last-minute deal may save Stolen Valor legislation
By John Hoellwarth
The House lawmaker who introduced legislation that would make it a felony for someone to claim military decorations he didn’t earn is willing to set his bill aside to support the version passed by the Senate, according to his spokesman.
Rep. John Salazar, D-Colo., introduced the Stolen Valor Act in the House during summer 2005, but his bill has been stymied in the House Judiciary Committee, despite having more than 100 co-sponsors, including five judiciary committee members.
But a version of the bill introduced in the Senate by Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., on Nov. 10, 2005, was passed by that chamber unanimously in September and could be brought to the House floor as early as Monday, when the judiciary committee meets for the last time this session, according to committee spokesman Jeff Lundgren.
The committee’s failure to send Salazar’s bill to the floor over the last year has been a disappointment for the legislation’s co-sponsors, roughly a quarter of the 435-member House of Representatives — including Rep. Bob Beauprez, R-Colo., who called the committee’s inaction “enormously frustrating.”
“We’ve never lost confidence in Stolen Valor, but it’s been so frustrating for us to sit there and watch votes on post office names when you actually have a bill that can make a difference and means something to so many veterans,” said Salazar spokesman Tate Rosenbusch.
According to Conrad spokesman Chris Thorne, a call from the House Republican leadership to the ranking Democrat on the judiciary committee, Rep. John Conyer Jr. of Michigan, late Nov. 30 signaled an 11th-hour effort to move on the legislation by inquiring whether there would be objections from the other side of the aisle to rubber-stamping Conrad’s Senate-approved bill instead of Salazar’s version.
Rosenbusch said Salazar informed Conyer that he would support Conrad’s legislation if it meant that Stolen Valor could become law before the new session of Congress begins in January, when the bill would have to be re-introduced in both the House and Senate.
“We support Senator Conrad’s legislation,” Rosenbusch said. “It’s about time the Congress acts on this important bill. We don’t care if our name is on it. We don’t care if we’re 30th on the list of co-sponsors. We just want something done.”
Conrad’s bill is almost identical to Salazar’s, with only minor differences in the phrasing of a shared proposal to close a loophole in current law that allows phony war heroes to escape criminal prosecution as long as they don’t physically wear the medals and decorations they claim to have earned.
Both bills would make claiming unearned decorations a felony punishable by up to six months in prison and a $5,000 fine. Fraudulent claims to military decorations specifically awarded for combat valor would be punishable by up to one year in prison and a $10,000 fine.
Ellie
thedrifter
12-05-06, 03:53 PM
December 11, 2006
Punishment for impostors
Doing justice to real heroes requires cracking down on the fake ones
By Robert F. Dorr
It looks like the outgoing Congress will adjourn without passing the Stolen Valor Act, a bill to stiffen penalties for impostors who pretend to be military heroes.
Rep. John Salazar, D-Colo., introduced the legislation in July 2005. Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., introduced an identical version that passed the Senate in September, but the bill is now stalled in the House of Representatives.
Phony war heroes are everywhere. Claiming to have received awards they were never given for acts of valor they never performed, they’re posturing at community meetings, church groups and public events. Often these fraudulent “heroes” are paid for giving speeches. They benefit themselves and gain undeserved publicity by citing phony awards on résumés and employment applications.
Here’s a sampling of recent fakers:
• An Illinois judge displayed two Medals of Honor in his office, causing others to venerate him as a combat hero.
• A Missouri man gave speeches to veterans claiming he had been awarded the Navy Cross, the Navy and Marine Corps’ second highest award for valor.
• A Nevada man posed as a retired Air Force colonel and recipient of the Air Force Cross and gave numerous talks to schoolchildren.
All were lying about their awards. All were fakes — discovered, eventually, after fooling friends, colleagues and the public.
None has been punished. Under current law, it’s illegal to wear a decoration you haven’t earned. But there’s no law against claiming to have received an award you didn’t actually get.
It’s against the law to manufacture, wear, buy, sell or trade the Medal of Honor. Other medals are routinely bought and sold, quite legally.
In conversations with active-duty troops and veterans, I found almost universal outrage that there’s no law to punish someone falsely claiming to have received an award for valor.
“This takes something away from everybody who served,” said former Army 1st Lt. Andrew F. Antippas, who was an infantryman during the Korean War. “Anybody found pretending to have an award he didn’t earn ought to face some serious sanctions.”
The Stolen Valor Act would make untrue claims punishable by a fine and a sentence of six to 12 months, depending on the award claimed.
In my unscientific poll of several dozen vets, only one wondered if the Stolen Valor Act amounts to “too much government.”
What shouldn’t be in the legislation — and would turn many veterans against it — is a ban on buying and selling all decorations. Thousands of Americans collect, trade, buy and sell medals — except the Medal of Honor — and should be allowed to continue. A veteran’s family should be able to sell his awards if it chooses. Experts who’ve studied the Stolen Valor Act say the language of the bill needs to be tweaked to avoid any misunderstanding on this point, and to make it clear the bill is intended to halt the posing of fake heroes.
“This is a national epidemic,” said former Army Sgt. C. Douglas Sterner, who maintains a Web site about military valor, www.home ofheroes.com. “It’s a shame that when young men and women lose limbs and are awarded only the Purple Heart that the bogus people are wearing Purple Hearts and passing themselves off as heroes. If Congress doesn’t pass this, you might as well forget about integrity of military awards and say people can do anything they want.”
Sterner cites the book “Uncle Sam’s Medal of Honor” by Theophilus Rodenbough as quoting Gen. George Washington’s order to create the Badge for Military Merit in 1782:
“Should any who are not entitled to these honors have the insolence to assume the badges of them, they shall be severely punished.”
Lawmakers should pass the Stolen Valor Act — minus any penalties against legitimate collectors — so that George Washington’s call for punishment will finally be heeded.
The writer, an Air Force veteran, lives in Oakton, Va. Dorr is the author of books on military topics, including “Air Combat,” a history of fighter pilots. His e-mail address is robert .f.dorr@cox.net.
Ellie
With the democrats in control and their obivious dislike for our military do you think that this bill has a chance of ever getting out of committee to a floor vote? I dont. I do find it very ironic that the original bill was written and sponsored by a democrat.
Jim
I guarantee you the democratic party of the United States does not "dislike" our military.
Just because they oppose the war in Iraq, which we are losing by the way and have ambiguous objectives, doesn't mean that they do not support our troops like every other American citizen.
greensideout
12-05-06, 05:39 PM
I guarantee you the democratic party of the United States does not "dislike" our military.
Just because they oppose the war in Iraq, which we are losing by the way and have ambiguous objectives, doesn't mean that they do not support our troops like every other American citizen.
"Losing the war"? Where did you come up with that?
greensideout
12-05-06, 05:53 PM
It seems that the answer to not enforcing the laws already on the books is followed by creating new laws. Will they be enforced more effectively? Likely not. I have to agree with an above post---"I am not in favor of more laws".
jinelson
12-05-06, 06:01 PM
by SuNmAN - I guarantee you the democratic party of the United States does not "dislike" our military.
are you saying that John Kerry and John Murtha and their views dont reflect those of the party in general? Those two turds would sell us down the river in a heartbeat. Or maybe you havent listened to what they say.
are you saying that John Kerry and John Murtha and their views dont reflect those of the party in general? Those two turds would sell us down the river in a heartbeat. Or maybe you havent listened to what they say.
Kerry is questionable. I have my doubts about John Kerry for sure.
John Murtha is a decorated MARINE veteran of the Vietnam War. He was a drill instructor at Parris Island, was awarded the Bronze Star with Combat "V" device and two purple hearts and retired as a Colonel in the US Marine Corps.
I have the utmost respect for Congressman Murtha. Just because he calls for the withdrawl of troops from Iraq does not mean he is any less American than any Republican.
Wikipedia on Congressman John Murtha: <br />
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Military Service: <br />
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Murtha left Washington and Jefferson College in 1952 to join the Marine Corps and was awarded the American Spirit Honor Medal for...
greensideout
12-05-06, 07:37 PM
I guarantee you the democratic party of the United States does not "dislike" our military.
Just because they oppose the war in Iraq, which we are losing by the way and have ambiguous objectives, doesn't mean that they do not support our troops like every other American citizen.
Ok, I'll ask you again. Where did you come up with the idea that we our losing the war in Iraq?
Ok, I'll ask you again. Where did you come up with the idea that we our losing the war in Iraq?
1. We're making no progress in the stabilization of the country
2. American troops are dying every day
I don't care how many terrorists we are killing. I don't care if we kill 100 Al Qaeda for every US soldier/Marine lost.
If we don't make any progress towards achieving #1, then we are LOSING.
To have a CHANCE at achieving #1, we need 300,000+, but I say preferably 500,000 troops on the ground, a Former US Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki recommended prior to the invasion. 140,000 isn't cutting it.
greensideout
12-05-06, 08:38 PM
1. We're making no progress in the stabilization of the country
2. American troops are dying every day
I don't care how many terrorists we are killing. I don't care if we kill 100 Al Qaeda for every US soldier/Marine lost.
If we don't make any progress towards achieving #1, then we are LOSING.
Have you considered that we are not winning or losing?
Have you considered that we are not winning or losing?
For every American soldier (generic) that dies, we are one step closer to the American people demanding a total withdrawal from Iraq.
So long as American troops are dying and the situation is getting worse and not better, I consider that losing.
We will never be defeated militarily. I have said that time and time again. Our men are better trained, better supplied and better equipped.
But we can lose the diplomatic war, we can lose the war for hearts and minds, we can lose the war domestically, and we can lose (and probably already have lost) the war in the international arena.
The terrorists do not need to defeat the US Marines on a battlefield to win the war. All they need to do is convince the American people that our objective and perceived benefit of stabilizing Iraq is not worth the continued loss of American lives, and we have lost the war.
This is not liberal, left wing rhetoric. This is called strategy. And I guarantee you right now that Al Qaeda has a better strategy than we currently do.
greensideout
12-05-06, 09:10 PM
For every American soldier (generic) that dies, we are one step closer to the American people demanding a total withdrawal from Iraq.
So long as American troops are dying and the situation is getting worse and not better, I consider that losing.
We will never be defeated militarily. I have said that time and time again. Our men are better trained, better supplied and better equipped.
But we can lose the diplomatic war, we can lose the war for hearts and minds, we can lose the war domestically, and we can lose (and probably already have lost) the war in the international arena.
The terrorists do not need to defeat the US Marines on a battlefield to win the war. All they need to do is convince the American people that our objective and perceived benefit of stabilizing Iraq is not worth the continued loss of American lives, and we have lost the war.
This is not liberal, left wing rhetoric. This is called strategy. And I guarantee you right now that Al Qaeda has a better strategy than we currently do.
You sound a lot like Ladderwell? Is he one of your college instructors and a mentor? You are sounding off with words of defeat.
jenesbitt
12-05-06, 10:34 PM
I thought we won the war but are currently loosing the peace. Or, are the soonies kicking the camel dung out of the shee-its? Looks like un-Civil war to me.
10thzodiac
12-05-06, 10:49 PM
I personally think the Internet is the best thing since the Messiah for finding out the truth, especially for the ones whom will ultimately be risking their lives for brain fart wars and for what, medals ?
If I'm going to die for something let it be defending my shoreline, Bill of Rights or 72 virgins http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif not medals for an oil well in Iraq !
SF
10th
You sound a lot like Ladderwell? Is he one of your college instructors and a mentor? You are sounding off with words of defeat.
No clue who ladderwell is
Think of Iraq as a football game.
Winning Battles is like gaining yards
Winning the support of the Iraqi people, winning the support of the international community, reducing violence in the country, ensuring the security of the Iraqi people and the stability of the Iraqi government is like scoring points, regaining the support of the American people...
gaining yards may lead to scoring points...but at this rate its like we have 500 yards of offense in the fourth quarter and NO POINTS ON THE BOARD.
And in the end what determines who wins and who loses is how many points you have scored, not how many yards you've gained. And in this sense - WE ARE LOSING AND WILL LOSE UNLESS CHANGES ARE MADE FAST
Hope this is a good analogy that helps you understand my point of view.
yellowwing
12-06-06, 12:12 AM
Ok, I'll ask you again. Where did you come up with the idea that we our losing the war in Iraq?
From the Associated Press article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061206/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/gates_pentagon)
Asked directly by Levin whether the U.S. is winning in Iraq, [SecDef nominee] Gates replied, "No, sir." That response appeared to contradict Bush, who said at an Oct. 25 news conference, "Absolutely, we're winning."
Gates later said he believes the United States is neither winning nor losing, "at this point."
Dang college youngsters don't know how to research! :evilgrin:
jinelson
12-06-06, 12:16 AM
by SuNmAN -I have the utmost respect for Congressman Murtha. Just because he calls for the withdrawl of troops from Iraq does not mean he is any less American than any Republican.
Would a decorated Marine Officer try and convict the Haditha Marines that have not yet had their day in court to this date solely on the word of the media and the enemy? Well John Mecca Murtha did and he did it months ago and the Court Martials are just now getting started, your hero cried wolf before the investigations had even begun. I do appreciate you kind of agreeing on John Hanoi Kerry.
Jim
Sgt Leprechaun
12-06-06, 07:14 AM
While Murtha may have served honorably, and I don't take that away from him, I think he's an idiot now. Far too willing to sacrifice these young Marines on the altar of Political correctness, so the mainstream media will fawn over him.
Would a decorated Marine Officer try and convict the Haditha Marines that have not yet had their day in court to this date solely on the word of the media and the enemy? Well John Mecca Murtha did and he did it months ago and the Court Martials are just now getting started, your hero cried wolf before the investigations had even begun. I do appreciate you kind of agreeing on John Hanoi Kerry.
Jim
I agree Murtha should not have made those statements before their day in court. I agree 100%.
However, everyone makes mistakes. I still think Murtha is a respectable politician in general though. More so than most of the scum in office nowadays
From the Associated Press article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061206/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/gates_pentagon)
Dang college youngsters don't know how to research! :evilgrin:
I've read that article. Losing the War is my viewpoint and has nothing to do with the Secretary of defense's comment. Besides, for the SecDef to PUBLICLY say that we're losing the war would result in a huge blow in morale to our troops and immediate loss in confidence in our new SecDef. It was something he COULD NOT SAY, even it were possibly true
Sgt Leprechaun
12-06-06, 10:23 AM
Agree with your last statement. And, it would be nuts to do so.
10thzodiac
12-06-06, 12:10 PM
While Murtha may have served honorably, and I don't take that away from him, I think he's an idiot now. Far too willing to sacrifice these young Marines on the altar of Political correctness, so the mainstream media will fawn over him.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure." ~ Thomas Jefferson
“Plures efficimur quotiens metimur a vobis; semen est sanguis Christianorum (We multiply whenever we are mown down by you; the blood of Christians is seed)”
SF
10th
Sgt Leprechaun
12-06-06, 12:18 PM
Nice. Who said it?
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure." ~ Thomas Jefferson
“Plures efficimur quotiens metimur a vobis; semen est sanguis Christianorum (We multiply whenever we are mown down by you; the blood of Christians is seed)”
SF
10th
ROFL - "semen" means "blood" in latin???
hahahaha
thedrifter
12-06-06, 06:53 PM
December 06, 2006
Stolen Valor Act clears hurdle
By John Hoellwarth
Staff writer
The House of Representatives passed a Senate-approved bill Wednesday that would make it a felony to claim unearned military decorations.
The bill would close a loophole in current law that allows phony recipients to escape prosecution as long as they don’t physically wear the awards they claim.
If signed into law by the president, the Stolen Valor Act of 2005 would impose up to six months imprisonment and a maximum $5,000 fine for any false verbal, written or physical claim to an award or decoration authorized for military members. Penalties would be doubled for fraudulent claims to decorations specifically awarded for combat valor, such as the Navy Cross, Silver Star and Medal of Honor.
During floor debate on the bill, which was passed unanimously by the Senate Sept. 7, House Judiciary Committee chairman Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., referenced recent cases in Illinois and Missouri of men who have never served a day in uniform each claiming to be Marine officers and recipients of the Navy Cross, the nation’s second highest award for valor.
Rep. John Salazar, D-Colo., who introduced the House version of the legislation in the summer of 2005, said the bill re-introduces a precedent set by George Washington in 1782.
When he established the Badge of Military Merit, the nation’s only military award at the time, Washington wrote, “should anyone who is not entitled to these honors have the insolence to assume the badges of them, they shall be severely punished,” Salazar said.
The House’s approval of the Senate bill, introduced by Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., on Nov. 10, 2005, was the result of a last-minute bi-partisan effort to put the legislation to a vote before the end of the current session.
Salazar agreed on Sunday to set aside his own bill, which has been hung up in the judiciary committee since he introduced it, in order to support Conrad’s nearly identical legislation on the Senate side.
“We don’t care if our name is on it. We don’t care if we’re 30th on the list of co-sponsors. We just want something done,” Salazar spokesman Tate Rosenbusch said Monday.
Ellie
6yrforMar
12-06-06, 07:41 PM
The Laws on the books should be enforced as far as fakers are concerned.When the US Gov. starts wheeling & dealing with Syria & Iran to help us with the Iraq situation then we "Lost" the Iraq war and then some.
jinelson
12-06-06, 07:45 PM
Bro check it out not even the leftest Washington Post agrees with you Im posting their recent article about him. I hope that you dont think that the Washington Post is at all right wing or...
Didn't know about all this. <br />
<br />
And no I don't think the Washington Post is right wing/conservative at all.
thedrifter
12-09-06, 06:32 AM
Stolen Valor legislation awaits president's signature
By: J. STRYKER MEYER - Staff Writer
It took more than a year but the U.S. Senate passed the Stolen Valor Act of 2005 on Wednesday that may be the most sweeping legislation effecting military awards since the Medal of Honor criterion was reviewed in 1917. At that time, Congress created a Pyramid of Honor that established a ranking of medals awarded to military members for valor and service.
The Stolen Valor Act of 2005 restores a precedent established by Gen. George Washington in 1782 when he issued the "Badge for Military Merit," which was revived in 1932 and became the Purple Heart.
Among Washington's orders establishing that first military award was the provision that "Should any who are not entitled to these honors have the insolence to assume the badges of them, they shall be severely punished."
The Stolen Valor Act of 2005, accomplishes that and "sends a message," said Sen. Kent Conrad, (R-ND). "We will not let imposters dimish the honor of America's veterans." Conrad's bill makes it a federal crime to impersonate a decorated veteran and allows prosecution of imposters who falsely claim to be recipients of the Medal of Honor, Distinguished Service Awards, Silver Star or Purple Heart.
The Stolen Valor Act of 2005 is awaiting President Bush's signature. Spokesmen for Conrad and Congressman John T. Salazar (D-CO) said they expect no opposition from the president.
Existing laws do not stop imposters from identifying themselves as recipients of valor medals. Thousands of phony veterans impersonate distingushed veterans in parades, schools and soldiers' funerals. Some go so far as to hang their fake medals and citations on their office walls. Worse, many con artists use fraudulent medals to accrue credibility with their eventual victims.
For 12 years, FBI Special Agent Thomas A. Cottone Jr. has investigated and arrested men for illegally selling fake Medals of Honor and for wearing the Medal of Honor illegally. "The loophole in the old law was men could say they received the Medal of Honor and they could buy fake Medals of Honor and place them on their wall, but not be prosecuted for it. Now, they'll face criminal action."
The men and women who wear medals of valor without having served in combat, said Cottone, "...are frauds. They are thiefs. Public exposure is paramount for these thieves of valor. My father and uncles were vets ... I just buried my father with full military honors and when I saw those soldiers carrying his casket I took comfort in knowing that the awards and decorations they wore on their uniforms were earned and that there is now in place federal legislation to thwart stolen valor."
During his 12 years of investigating stolen valor cases, Cottone said, "I never had a man falsely claim to have received a Good Conduct Medal. The stolen valor thieves always pin the nation's highest military valor awards on and pretent to be a Green Beret, or an Army Ranger or a Navy SEAL."
A key player in making stolen valor a national issue is Vietnam veteran and author B.G. 'Jug' Burkett, who co-authored the book "Stolen Valor." Interviewed in his home, Burkett said he was thankful for the legislation after he has personally exposed more than 2,000 people who have falsely claimed to be combat veterans or illegally wore combat medals. Burkett has been campaigning against stolen valor thieves since 1987. "Sadly, we never lack for targets," he said.
Contact staff writer J. Stryker Meyer at (760) 901-4089 or jmeyer@nctimes.com.
Ellie
Eagle57
12-12-06, 01:21 AM
I have to agree with Sun man here.
Any US Democrat or Republican Elect Dosent "HATE " our Military.
If they do, the are in the closet, for OUR MILITARY KEEPS THEM IN POWER.
We are losing the "Iraq", WAR.
Not our Military, but the "Washington Politics", are.
No Plan, Failed No Plan. No Exit Stratagy ...ETC...
"If You Fail To Plan,....Plan To Fail"
OUR MILITARY IS HANDCUFFED.
Semper-Fi