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View Full Version : Question About Fraternization...USNA Graduate & USMC Enlisted



semperfi05m
11-27-06, 08:03 PM
<!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Ok, here's the situation. My girlfriend, more than likely, will be attending the United States Naval Academy, they haven't accepted her for sure yet, but with the things she's recieved already, it sounds like she's almost got it. I just graduated from Parris Island on the 17th of November and I've always wanted to have a career in the Marine Corps. The problem that we have is, I know that there are many issues when dealing with officer/enlisted relationships. We have talked about getting married and our future, and with this fraternization policy..we aren't sure how everything is going to work. I guess what I was wondering was.. if she attends USNA next year, she will be there for 4 years until she graduates and is comissioned as an officer. (Her first choice would be Marine Corps, Second Lieutenant). With her not being able to be married while at USNA, if I were to not re-enlist after my 4 years are up..(I'd be out the year before she graduates, or close to it) would I be allowed to marry her after she is comissioned and re-enlist again sometime after that? Is that prohibited? I guess it kind of sounds like cheating the system, but I was just curious to see if that option was possible. If that isn't possible, I know we would be able to marry before she was comissioned, but I guess I wasn't sure if they have a time of leave before they graduate and are comissioned or if they continue schooling until the day of graduation and are comissioned right then. I'm just so confused about this..if anyone has any information at all, please let me know. Thanks a lot.

:flag: PFC Justin Blakemore

KJ1110
11-27-06, 08:15 PM
I would suggest talking to the Chaplain for starters, and then possibly the Career NCO!

All I can say with any degree of certainty is that, unless things have changed dramatically, such a relationship would be a definate no-no!

Good Luck on this one!

SuNmAN
11-28-06, 09:38 AM
go to OCS through the PLC program and get you own commission !!!

semperfi05m
11-28-06, 10:38 AM
I plan on becoming an officer someday, but I have other goals first. I would like to become a drill instructor first. I know that it will be possible for us when I become an officer, I just don't know how long that's going to end up taking. I wanted to see if anyone knew any information about what I was asking, I know it will be possible if I become an officer..but I'm asking about the alternate possibilities that would be available, if any.

:flag: PFC Justin Blakemore

Sgt Leprechaun
11-28-06, 10:45 AM
PFC Blakemore:

First, good on her for getting accepted to USNA.

Now, on to the meat of the thing...her plebe year, you can pretty much forget about seeing her...I don't believe plebes get libo until sometime around Christmas.

Second, as a Midshipman, she will 'rank' you already, and dating will be 'discouraged'.

Third...four years is an awful long time down the road. While making these sort of plans is fun....remember the old adage "The best laid plans of mice and men..often go astray".

Just food for thought on this one.

Camper51
11-28-06, 11:11 AM
RE: FRATERNIZATION If the relationship existed prior to entering the service it is NOT fraternization and it would be ok for you to marry her upon her graduation and commissioning from the academy regardless of your rank. This is because this is a pre existing relationship from before the time you entered the service/academy.

I knew of many cases where enlisteds and officers met, fell in love and married. Most, though, were not in the same units or chain of command. It is not encouraged, in fact it is highly discouraged, but it does happen.

Congratulations and good luck to the both of you. Four years is a long time to wait and many things can happen in that time. If your love is strong then it will survive and you will have a wonderful marriage...

semperfi05m
11-28-06, 11:14 AM
Thanks a lot Camper for the information and support, it's really appreciated.

:flag: PFC Justin Blakemore

SkilletsUSMC
11-28-06, 11:35 AM
If you really love this girl, then go for it, but my suggestion is to dump her and enjoy being a young single Marine!!!

Im married and I love my wife, but it has been hard at times. I cant imagine how much strain a military couple would have on them. And its gonna look wierd when she shows up at the Ball with a Lance Criminal as a date:scared:

Camper51
11-28-06, 11:48 AM
She would not need to wear her Blues to his ball anymore than he would wear his uniform to hers. Why would they draw unwanted and unnecessary attention to themselves?

That is called "RESPECT" for those of you who are too dumb to understand these things.............. LOL

By the way after she graduates he would have been in the Corps 5 years so he should be a Sgt or Ssgt by then, not a Lance Criminal...

SuNmAN
11-28-06, 12:07 PM
lol if you're in the wrong MOS you could be a Lance Corporal/Corporal after 5 years...

SkilletsUSMC
11-28-06, 12:10 PM
lol if you're in the wrong MOS you could be a Lance Corporal/Corporal after 5 years...

You have a good point, but there are plenty of Marines who never make it past Lance there whole time in. And some of them ARENT ****bags either.

Camper51
11-28-06, 12:18 PM
I understand that some MOS's promote slowly. Under MOST normal circumstances one could expect to be Sgt or SSgt after 5 years, however I am not a pessimist, nor do I automatically think of the rarest of circumstances possible that might hinder a persons career, like some of you who may have been there.

So shoot me...

drumcorpssnare
11-28-06, 12:23 PM
semperfi05m- Here's a thought....Back when I went through boot camp ('72) we had a recruit in our platoon who....let's just say he wasn't a rocket scientist. When he got his orders for school, after boot camp, he was shocked! He said to the Sr. Drill Instructor, "Sir, my recruiter told me I could go to "General" school." S/Sgt. Fogarty asked him, "Pvt. Whitney, what in the fu*# are you talking about?!" "Sir! The private was told he could go to "General School" for six weeks, and become a General. Sir!"

I don't know if the Marine Corps still has "General School." But, if they do (LOL) maybe you could get assigned there for six weeks...become a General, and then marrying your fiance' would not be an issue.

Like someone else posted, your pre-existing relationship trumps other regs regarding fraternization. I wish you and her many, many happy years together.

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

p.s.- The boot camp story is the God's honest truth!

rktect3j
11-28-06, 12:37 PM
lol if you're in the wrong MOS you could be a Lance Corporal/Corporal after 5 years...
Cpl. yes, Lcpl??? I would have to believe you did something seriously wrong after 5 years and you did not make Cpl. When I got Cpl in my mos I had to have a score over 1600 when the average was around 1300 and some mos's were at 1100. Still you should have that 1600 by the time your 4 years are up anyway. I made it with 7 months to go. Points of course does not mean that you automatically get promoted to Cpl. I'd bet only 25% of the people around me in my field made it to Cpl in 4 years. But 5 years is unacceptable.

rktect3j
11-28-06, 12:38 PM
Can anyone here post the list for the points needed for Cpl by mos? I'd like to see that.

Sgt Leprechaun
11-28-06, 01:45 PM
Yep. Go here, it's the easiest place to use:

https://www.manpower.usmc.mil/portal/page?_pageid=278,2029930&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

SkilletsUSMC
11-28-06, 02:51 PM
Hey Guys,

I think I have been misunderstood. Once she is at the academy, she allready out ranks him right, well Im guessing that they will go to the next ball. and Im assuming the original poster would have picked up Lance by then. I didnt even take the 5 years it would take for her to get a commision into consideration. Thats my bust

SuNmAN
11-28-06, 05:04 PM
semperfi05m- Here's a thought....Back when I went through boot camp ('72) we had a recruit in our platoon who....let's just say he wasn't a rocket scientist. When he got his orders for school, after boot camp, he was shocked! He said to the Sr. Drill Instructor, "Sir, my recruiter told me I could go to "General" school." S/Sgt. Fogarty asked him, "Pvt. Whitney, what in the fu*# are you talking about?!" "Sir! The private was told he could go to "General School" for six weeks, and become a General. Sir!"

I don't know if the Marine Corps still has "General School." But, if they do (LOL) maybe you could get assigned there for six weeks...become a General, and then marrying your fiance' would not be an issue.

Like someone else posted, your pre-existing relationship trumps other regs regarding fraternization. I wish you and her many, many happy years together.

drumcorpssnare:usmc:

p.s.- The boot camp story is the God's honest truth!


OMG what an idiot...

SuNmAN
11-28-06, 05:05 PM
Cpl. yes, Lcpl??? I would have to believe you did something seriously wrong after 5 years and you did not make Cpl. When I got Cpl in my mos I had to have a score over 1600 when the average was around 1300 and some mos's were at 1100. Still you should have that 1600 by the time your 4 years are up anyway. I made it with 7 months to go. Points of course does not mean that you automatically get promoted to Cpl. I'd bet only 25% of the people around me in my field made it to Cpl in 4 years. But 5 years is unacceptable.

I know this is the reserves and the score is different for active but for a Motor Vehicle Operator the cutting score is 1750+ for Corporal, I've seen a lot of LCpls who JUST got promoted to Corporal after 5+ years. Their peers are now Sergeants.

SuNmAN
11-28-06, 05:06 PM
Hey Guys,

I think I have been misunderstood. Once she is at the academy, she allready out ranks him right, well Im guessing that they will go to the next ball. and Im assuming the original poster would have picked up Lance by then. I didnt even take the 5 years it would take for her to get a commision into consideration. Thats my bust

Thats stupid

1. They can throw me in the brig if they want but I would NEVER salute a midshipman

2. Then wouldn't they outrank the Gunnies and Senior Staff NCOs that train them too?

Camper51
11-28-06, 05:15 PM
Didn't anyone learn sh*t in bootcamp.

Military rank structure
E-1 through E-9 = Enlisted
WO1 through W05 = Warrant Officer (rates hand salute)
O1 through O9 = Commissioned officer (rates hand salute)

NO where is there mention of cadets/midshipmen in the academies Ever wonder why? It's because they are NOT YET IN THE FRIGGIN MILITARY!!! They are undergoing training to become officers. If they fail they get to play ENLISTED for the rest of their military obligation which equals one year military obligation for each year in Prep School/Academy!!!

SkilletsUSMC
11-28-06, 07:47 PM
PFC Blakemore:

First, good on her for getting accepted to USNA.

Now, on to the meat of the thing...her plebe year, you can pretty much forget about seeing her...I don't believe plebes get libo until sometime around Christmas.

Second, as a Midshipman, she will 'rank' you already, and dating will be 'discouraged'.

Third...four years is an awful long time down the road. While making these sort of plans is fun....remember the old adage "The best laid plans of mice and men..often go astray".

Just food for thought on this one.

Camper51,

Before this thread I had never even heard of a midshipman. And no they dont talk about it at bootcamp. I dont care much about the officer side.

deane
11-28-06, 08:49 PM
I have read the young marine's plight and all the rocket scientists replies to his problem. Stick to your guns and be the Marine you want. Give yourself 150% to all tasks assigned, enroll in off-duty education and work hard and you can complete your degree and apply for OCS. Step back, look over your options for there are several open for you and go for it. We Marines are know to overcome impossible situtations and you can also. GO FOR IT!!!

deane
11-28-06, 08:52 PM
[quote=deane]I have read the young marine's plight and all the rocket scientists replies to his problem. Stick to your guns and be the Marine you want. Give yourself 150% to all tasks assigned, enroll in off-duty education and work hard and you can complete your degree and apply for OCS. Step back, look over your options for there are several open and go for it. We Marines are know to overcome impossible situtations and you can also. GO FOR IT!!! All things are possible.:usmc: ]

huey guns
11-30-06, 07:23 PM
I had an 6125/6114 mos, made E-5 in 2-1/2 years. Airwing all the way!!!

SuNmAN
11-30-06, 07:26 PM
I had an 6125/6114 mos, made E-5 in 2-1/2 years. Airwing all the way!!!


I've been in 2 and a half years already (reserve side though) as a 3531

high first class PFT
high rifle expert
4.6/4.6 Pro/Cons
20 points recruiting bonus
2 MCIs completed

and I'm still a lance corporal...I'm about 125-150 points shorts I think.

SkilletsUSMC
11-30-06, 08:04 PM
I had an 6125/6114 mos, made E-5 in 2-1/2 years. Airwing all the way!!!

That is just unbelieveable. I know its a hook up, congrats and by no means do I want to slam you personally... But honestly do you think you rate SGT yet??? SGT is the ultimate rank for the enlisted man. It is the rank which gets you an infantry squad that you COMMAND. Anything higher, and you become an admin type billet. What does a SGT do as a 6125? how do some of the saltier marines feel?

LoCapitano
11-30-06, 09:21 PM
I had an 6125/6114 mos, made E-5 in 2-1/2 years. Airwing all the way!!!

Yeah I'm in MOS School to be a 6176, Tiltrotor CrewChief, MV-22

and I heard that we clime up pretty fast...

huey guns
12-01-06, 08:02 PM
skillets USMC, I had at one time (3) mos ratings 6007/ J-79 mechanic, 6125/ T-400 mechanic and 6114/ H-1 CREW CHIEF. The 6125 was a critical MOS at the time and you could write your own ticket for advancement up to a point. You could get recomended and just need (time in grade),no points.The AIR FORCE is the worst for rank, I know several who retired at E-6 afer 20 years.

SuNmAN
12-01-06, 08:20 PM
skillets USMC, I had at one time (3) mos ratings 6007/ J-79 mechanic, 6125/ T-400 mechanic and 6114/ H-1 CREW CHIEF. The 6125 was a critical MOS at the time and you could write your own ticket for advancement up to a point. You could get recomended and just need (time in grade),no points.The AIR FORCE is the worst for rank, I know several who retired at E-6 afer 20 years.

my former roommate in the air national guard was handed E-4 jsut for signing up.

sweet life lol

SkilletsUSMC
12-01-06, 08:28 PM
skillets USMC, I had at one time (3) mos ratings 6007/ J-79 mechanic, 6125/ T-400 mechanic and 6114/ H-1 CREW CHIEF. The 6125 was a critical MOS at the time and you could write your own ticket for advancement up to a point. You could get recomended and just need (time in grade),no points.The AIR FORCE is the worst for rank, I know several who retired at E-6 afer 20 years.

I know what youre saying... the Maine Corps want to keep skilled Marines in the Corps and out of the private sector. I have NO problem with big $$$$$$$$$$$$ bonuses for Marines that have a critical MOS, but what sucks is handing out rank too quickly....

No matter how good you are at your MOS skill, Rank is still about leadership. Im not saying YOU PERSONALLY are a bad leader, but on average a Marine with 2 1/2 years in is getting about ripe for CORPORAL. Its not just another stripe. An NCO is a non commisioned OFFICER! that should mean something... and Sergeant.... That it the ultimate rank... not too high, not too low. As a Sergeant, a Marine's ass should be locked the **** on. you should know your MOS to a T and be have excellent knowledge of the Corps.

remember this isnt a personal slam at all. If you think you rate it thats all that matters.

Zulu 36
12-02-06, 06:27 AM
my former roommate in the air national guard was handed E-4 jsut for signing up.

sweet life lol
The Air Force is pretty quick to promote up to E-4 (Senior Airman), but things slow down from there. My oldest daughter made E-4 in less than one year after getting out of basic training because she had E-3 guaranteed due to her college education level (three years at the time). She will sit as an E-4 for at least two years before she has a chance at E-5 (assuming there are slots available in her Reserve unit) and there she will sit for quite a while. Hopefully she will go to OCS once she gets her degree.

I went into the Air Guard as an E-5, but I was moving over from the USMCR where I was a Sgt. I made E-6 within the year (I had to meet some Air Force PME requirements first), and E-7 (MSgt) about three years later. I stayed an E-7 for about ten years until I retired.

At the time my unit had only one E-8 slot and six E-7s eligible for it, but I was junior compared to others. I didn't want to transfer or change jobs, I liked my unit. When I retired there were still three guys ahead of me and two were planning to stick around the Guard for a few more years.