Heard any "Baby Killer" comments lately?

[horselady]

My husband, a USMC Vietnam Vet was attacked with the moniker,
"Baby Killer" and worse, many times when he was in uniform back
then.

What I want to know is, has this despicable name come back
in fashion among liberals and other anti-military types during
this less-than-popular war. I ask because a liberal I know
swears that this name is never used against our men and
women in the military. As I have no first hand knowledge, and
am relying only on rumors I've heard that it is being used,
I thought I'd ask the people who might know whether this is
the case or not?

Hope you can help (one way or the other).

[Hobson]

Fresh out of boot I was approached in my Charlies and I was spit on by an anti-war person. I had a friend with me, the end result was not good. So yes it still happens.

Semper Fi,

[jinelson]

Friday, July 9, 2004

Veteran gets rude welcome on Bainbridge

By ROBERT L. JAMIESON Jr.
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER COLUMNIST

Think about the Seattle area -- Bainbridge Island to be exact -- and you think scenic views and liberal-minded tolerance.


FOLLOW-UP
Read the latest update: An apology and -- it is hoped -- healing on Bainbridge.

At least the killer views are still there.

The bucolic island's deep reputation for civility got a gut check this week during the annual Grand Old Fourth of July celebration.

That's when Jason Gilson, a 23-year-old military veteran who served in Iraq, marched in the local event. He wore his medals with pride and carried a sign that said "Veterans for Bush."

Walking the parade route with his mom, younger siblings and politically conservative friends, Jason heard words from the crowd that felt like a thousand daggers to the heart.

"Baby killer!"

"Murderer!"

"Boooo!"

To understand why the reaction of strangers hurt so much, you must read what the young man had written in a letter from Iraq before he was disabled in an ambush:

"I really miss being in the states. Some of the American public have no idea how much freedom costs and who the people are that pay that awful price. I think sometimes people just see us as nameless and faceless and not really as humans. ... A good portion of us are actually scared that when we come home, for those of us who make it back, that there will be protesters waiting for us and that is scary."

On the Fourth, Jason faced his worst fear.

It was such a public humiliation -- home front insult after battlefield injury.

It really shouldn't have happened for two principal reasons.

Reason No. 1? History.

The past informs us that the men and women who fight our wars are not just following orders.

They are risking life and limb.

When they return from the battlefield they should be embraced regardless of the public popularity about the conflict, regardless of the politics.

Have we so quickly forgotten the painful lessons of Vietnam?

Frederick Scheffler, whose daughter and son-in-law marched with Jason on Sunday, hasn't.

Scheffler -- an Army veteran of two tours in Southeast Asia -- was shot in the leg during that long-ago conflict.

He came home with a cane, only to discover the American public was either indifferent to his sacrifice or downright hostile.

"I didn't think in this day and age combat veterans would be treated in this manner," Scheffler, 60, tells me, reflecting on Jason. "I saw it happen to veterans in Vietnam. I'm not going to let it happen today, not to these kids."

Reason No. 2? The rules.

The Bainbridge Island Chamber of Commerce, which put on the community celebration, permits freedom of expression at the event but asks that parade announcers not act in a manner that is partisan or prejudicial.

Jason's mother, Tamar, says a female parade announcer locked eyes on her son who was walking behind a pro-Republican group called Women in Red, White and Blue. The group supports President Bush and the troops in the fight against terrorism.

According to Tamar, the female announcer sarcastically asked Jason: "And what exactly are you a veteran of?"

The perceived mocking, the mother adds, set off some people in the crowd, loosing a flood of negative comments, "like a wave... a mob-style degrading."

Kevin Dwyer, executive director of the Chamber of Commerce, spoke with the announcer after the allegations reached him this week.

He says the woman denies using sarcasm; she just wanted to know which war Jason was a veteran of so that she could "honor him" in public.

"It wasn't her intention to incite anything -- that's what she told me," Dwyer said. "But if she acted out of school, that's not what we're about."

Dwyer added: "I believe (Jason's) mom when she said her son was called 'a murderer.' But I'm sure it wasn't so much directed at the kid as it was the president. A soldier with a sign represents that."

The female announcer told Dwyer that some in the Bush-Cheney contingent in the parade seemed "militant."

And so, battle lines are drawn.

From the outside looking in, the fuel for this conflict seems obvious.

The left-leaning island hosted a group of people who support Bush's controversial war. (On the same parade route, people bearing pro-Kerry signs were cheered and applauded for, among other things, tooling around in an environmentally responsible car.)

Against such a roiling backdrop, an unfortunate tone of voice or the wording on a sign can spark, well, something -- something unconscionable it appears.

But less obvious factors are undoubtedly at work here, too.

The female announcer at the parade had a father who fought for America in a previous U.S. conflict. He never made it back home.

Jason's mother -- unbeknownst to many observers along the parade route -- is a tireless activist behind the pro-troops movement in the Puget Sound region.

Such a combo on a day of red, white and blue can only lead to fireworks -- snap, crackle and popping off during what locals call the "best small-town parade in America."

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Yes, it still happens, despite the fact that the MSM won't report on it. Compare and contrast this with what happens when ANY Marine goes off and does something stupid, or even defends him/her self...

[horselady]

Thanks guys. I was afraid this was the case but I was
hoping I was wrong. I plan to post these comments for the
liberals who said I was crazy to think that such comments
were being made to the troops once again.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Ma'am, the libs ALWAYS say that sorta thing...just the way they are. You might also want to find a copy of Bob Greene's book, "Homecoming", where he directly relates stories of Vietnam Vets being spit on by the "peace and love" crowd back then.

BTW, when I was a young pup, back in '83, I had a bead wearin long hair call me a 'babykiller' at an anti-nuke protest held at Marine Barracks Annapolis. I looked him dead in the eye and said "It's better'n bein a communist **ggot". He decided discretion was the better part of valor, I suppose, and left post haste LOL.

[booksbenji]

despairings words spoke of our Veterans (Past or Present), I was pasting thru Love Field (Dallas before DFW) in '72 and was on a escort mission for a Fallen Marine. I was walking to the next gate to get to South Texas and had SW air escort, 'bout 4 steps in front was a hulk of spit (mind U I had Dress Blue "C" on), did a rite turn to a small crowd of waiting people who waiting to be board and I found the SOB that was spitting. He was not standing anymore. Dallas police p/u his butt up and cuff him foot and hand. I recived in the mail when I returned to MCBCAMLEJ a free flt from SW Air and a ltr from Herb Keller, Pres and CEO then. He thanked for my service to the Corps, to the Fallen and to America. Mother had it framed and stills hangs at my sister house to this today. I still fly SWA and most of the pilots know me and free beir (Heiny, of course).

:thumbup:

[krc0604]

Yes it does happen. I have Marine Corps license plates on my cars, and have been called that several times, one time with her two kids in the minivan. But on the other hand, I have had some great responses from some people.:flag:

[toomuchmoto]

It still happens, just a few months ago i was in Palm Springs in my chucks, and some guy spit on my shoes, and called me all sorts of things, to include "baby killer". If my cpl hadn't put me in a head lock, i'm pretty sure that i would have had some trouble getting blood out of my uniform.

[SgtHMH]

Well I'm a Marine and a Cop and one day coming home from work, when I was still on active Officer. I was wearing my State Police Uniform with a plan old coat over it. I was in the active Marine reserves at the time and as all Marines, the round Marine Corps bumper sticker. I stopped to get gas, and had this long haired pun start telling me off. I had a military hair cut, green trousers and a tan military type shirt on under my coat that he could see. He could not see my State Police patches or my shoulder holster with my mags and cuffs, and double action 9mm, or my State Police Badge. He started telling me off about how he did not like Marines and the military, and that I was a baby killer. If he had a gun he would shoot me him self. Well guess what that is a crime, I took my jacket off and said you are under arrest for making death threats to me. He turn white as a sheet when he saw my State Police Uniform, I also said I am a Marine all the time too. I put cuffs on him and just waited for the local police to show up. The Officer showed up and he the Officer was a fellow Marine too. This guy the threatend me was in a world of Marines and Police and it back fired on him, that he will never will forget.

Semper Fi

Sgt. Hoss

[10thzodiac]

It's bad enough when you got the guy's at the top, Johnson-Bush more worried about their legacy than the troops, their wars gone wrong; then insult to injury the civilians take a hard sh*t on you and call you a baby killer.

I blame our brain-fart leaders as the root cause of the baby killer name calling, not the name callers.

No, the North Vietnamese never invaded the west coast and Usama is not going to make our women wear burqa's.

What is happening, allot of Americans and Arabs are dying because of our ill advised misadventures into countries.

As long as we let our elected officials who have incidentally avoided military service one way or another start these un-necessary wars, we can expect to be called names in default because we represent our failed fart-brain leaders policy's.

I personally never had the experience of being called a baby killer, but again, I hardly ever needed to wear my uniform off base.

Right after 9/11 I did have a gentleman in a mall, in a well to do Chicago suburb, Oakbrook, ask me if I was in the military after he noticed my license plates. I said, a long time ago. He shook my hand and thanked me and then drove off in his Mercedes. I doubt if he could tell a soldier from a Marine, or even knew what the Globe and Anchor was.

Horselady, if subtle manipulation is your aim, you haven't done badly judging by your response, excepting me of course, good for you http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif

SF
10th

[horselady]

Well I'm a Marine and a Cop and one day coming home from work, when I was still on active Officer. I was wearing my State Police Uniform with a plan old coat over it. I was in the active Marine reserves at the time and as all Marines, the round Marine Corps bumper sticker. I stopped to get gas, and had this long haired pun start telling me off. I had a military hair cut, green trousers and a tan military type shirt on under my coat that he could see. He could not see my State Police patches or my shoulder holster with my mags and cuffs, and double action 9mm, or my State Police Badge. He started telling me off about how he did not like Marines and the military, and that I was a baby killer. If he had a gun he would shoot me him self. Well guess what that is a crime, I took my jacket off and said you are under arrest for making death threats to me. He turn white as a sheet when he saw my State Police Uniform, I also said I am a Marine all the time too. I put cuffs on him and just waited for the local police to show up. The Officer showed up and he the Officer was a fellow Marine too. This guy the threatend me was in a world of Marines and Police and it back fired on him, that he will never will forget.

Semper Fi

Sgt. Hoss

http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/2.gif That must have made
your day! Good for you. I hope they threw the book at him.

[SuNmAN]

Well I'm a Marine and a Cop and one day coming home from work, when I was still on active Officer. I was wearing my State Police Uniform with a plan old coat over it. I was in the active Marine reserves at the time and as all Marines, the round Marine Corps bumper sticker. I stopped to get gas, and had this long haired pun start telling me off. I had a military hair cut, green trousers and a tan military type shirt on under my coat that he could see. He could not see my State Police patches or my shoulder holster with my mags and cuffs, and double action 9mm, or my State Police Badge. He started telling me off about how he did not like Marines and the military, and that I was a baby killer. If he had a gun he would shoot me him self. Well guess what that is a crime, I took my jacket off and said you are under arrest for making death threats to me. He turn white as a sheet when he saw my State Police Uniform, I also said I am a Marine all the time too. I put cuffs on him and just waited for the local police to show up. The Officer showed up and he the Officer was a fellow Marine too. This guy the threatend me was in a world of Marines and Police and it back fired on him, that he will never will forget.

Semper Fi

Sgt. Hoss

hope you threw his ass in jail

[SgtHMH]

When you say things about the Military and threaten people it does hit you in the back side. There are more Veterans than most people think out there in the world and the Judge was a Veteran him self of Nam. The Judge of the county court had a few words of him self for this person. He said he wish there was a War Like Nam going on, because back then they put people in the military or jail. This guy would have been in the military if a war was going on and a draft occuring.

Semper Fi

Sgt. Hoss

[SuNmAN]

I would punch someone in the throat if he ever said something of the sort to me.

[horselady]

Thanks guys. Though it pains me deeply to hear that such
verbal abuse is still being directed at heroes like you, I want
the decent people in this country to know about it. The libs
on that board have accused me of making up the stories
about your experiences because I won't give them the link to
this board. But that's OK, there are a lot of other people who
are shocked and saddened to hear them, and I hope it inspires
them to do something nice for the troops that they may not
have thought to do before. If nothing else it might make them
more aware that when certain liberals talk about supporting the
troops but not the war, it is less than genuine at best, and
at worst it is no different than what the protesters were doing
and saying during Vietnam.

For some reason, it has become the Politically Correct thing to
do to say I support the troops but not the war. They seem to
think that gives them the "cover" they need before they start
denigrading and criticizing everything you're trying to do in this war.

So keep posting these stories and I'll keep making sure a lot of
people know about it.

Thanks. http://bestsmileys.com/hugging/4.gif

[horselady]

Yep. Still out ther, only the now you can say it on the web.

http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

I should have known what this link would be when I saw the Huffington
name associated with it. I mean what the hell did these people volunteer
to serve their country for in the first place? Oh I know, I've heard people
say, "Well, I needed the money for education, I didn't think I'd actually
have to fight a war." I even heard one mother of a soldier say, "I sent
my son to the Army to get tuition money, not to get shot at."

Well DUHHHHHHH!

[horselady]

It's bad enough when you got the guy's at the top, Johnson-Bush more worried about their legacy than the troops, their wars gone wrong; then insult to injury the civilians take a hard sh*t on you and call you a baby killer.

I blame our brain-fart leaders as the root cause of the baby killer name calling, not the name callers.

No, the North Vietnamese never invaded the west coast and Usama is not going to make our women wear burqa's.

What is happening, allot of Americans and Arabs are dying because of our ill advised misadventures into countries.

As long as we let our elected officials who have incidentally avoided military service one way or another start these un-necessary wars, we can expect to be called names in default because we represent our failed fart-brain leaders policy's.

I personally never had the experience of being called a baby killer, but again, I hardly ever needed to wear my uniform off base.

Right after 9/11 I did have a gentleman in a mall, in a well to do Chicago suburb, Oakbrook, ask me if I was in the military after he noticed my license plates. I said, a long time ago. He shook my hand and thanked me and then drove off in his Mercedes. I doubt if he could tell a soldier from a Marine, or even knew what the Globe and Anchor was.

Horselady, if subtle manipulation is your aim, you haven't done badly judging by your response, excepting me of course, good for you http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif

SF
10th

No Zodiac, I understand. Believe me I don't look at this war with
rose-colored glasses re: the administration. But I pay attention
when hubby slams his fist into a door out of sheer frustration over
the new ROE with which the military must comply in this politically
correct war. I don't know first hand what it means to fight a war
with one hand tied behind one's back, but I've got a good idea.
And the thought of our troops bending over backwards to avoid
civilian casualties and then getting killed themselves because of it,
angers me to no end.

When the War on Terror started, and there seemed to be so much
support for the military, I was relieved to think things had changed
a whole lot since the Vietnam War. Hubby was not impressed, and
continued to say, right from the get go, that the public would turn
on the Marines/soldiers in combat and undermine their efforts
just like they did in Vietnam. I argued that the people had learned
from their mistakes in Vietnam regarding the troops, but all
hubby would say is, "I give it 6 months, then the people and the
media will turn against them but with one slight difference:
Now they can spit on them and get away with it because they've
said they support the troops, just not the war."

Regretfully, he was right.

It shouldn't matter whether or not the war is just, all that matters
is that our troops are puting their lives on the line in this war
every day. And for that reason alone, troops are deserving of
our highest respect and undying grattitude.

I don't know where I heard this expression, maybe here, but it's
become my unoffical tag line: "The expression I support the troops"
must never be followed by the word, "but."
http://bestsmileys.com/kissing2/6.gif

[SuNmAN]

Thanks guys. Though it pains me deeply to hear that such
verbal abuse is still being directed at heroes like you, I want
the decent people in this country to know about it. The libs
on that board have accused me of making up the stories
about your experiences because I won't give them the link to
this board. But that's OK, there are a lot of other people who
are shocked and saddened to hear them, and I hope it inspires
them to do something nice for the troops that they may not
have thought to do before. If nothing else it might make them
more aware that when certain liberals talk about supporting the
troops but not the war, it is less than genuine at best, and
at worst it is no different than what the protesters were doing
and saying during Vietnam.

For some reason, it has become the Politically Correct thing to
do to say I support the troops but not the war. They seem to
think that gives them the "cover" they need before they start
denigrading and criticizing everything you're trying to do in this war.

So keep posting these stories and I'll keep making sure a lot of
people know about it.

Thanks. http://bestsmileys.com/hugging/4.gif

I'm no hero, but a lot of the guys who have been to war are. Don't anyone ever DARE spit on a servicemember who has put his life on the line to serve your country. I don't care if he's Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine or Coast Guard.

[horselady]

I'm no hero, but a lot of the guys who have been to war are. Don't anyone ever DARE spit on a servicemember who has put his life on the line to serve your country. I don't care if he's Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine or Coast Guard.

Yes you are. And that should be a no-brainer.
Unfortunately a lot of Americans have no brains. http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage26/17.gif

[David Jameson]

Hope I don"t change the post but if I may --**** you Zody 10

[Zulu 36]

Personally, I have not heard of anyone currently in the military that I know being called a baby killer.

I was called that while on boot camp leave in 1971. My father had taken me, in uniform, to his favorite watering hole to show me off to his, mostly veteran, friends.

Some long hair also in the bar couldn't resist I guess. My father took (dragged) him into the alley and beat him into serious condition. When the Detroit cops showed up (every one of whom was a military vet AND knew my dad), dip stick went to jail for assaulting my father after a side trip to the hospital.

Lots of witnesses to that guy trying to assault my father. None of dirt bag's friends stuck around for the action. Some friends.

Scum bag even had enough energy left to "resist arrest" a little too. How strange was that? :beer:

[drumcorpssnare]

David Jameson- Now, now...don't pick on 10thz. He just wants to sit down with the Islamic nut-cases with "Holiday Inn" towels wrapped too tight around their pointy little heads, and C-4 stuffed up their butts, and have a dialogue with them. 10thz needs them to understand that Americans are greedy, warmongering, imperialist monsters, and that Moslems worldwide have a 'right' to be themselves...no matter what! And because Americans have the freedom to speak their minds...he's automatically right!

Is 10thz planning to move to Syria? Iran maybe? We'll have to wait and see.

SEMPER FI:usmc:
drumcorpssnare

[David Jameson]

Yes,He might like that area, Probly nice this tme of year(Christmas and all)
CHEERS

[DWG]

It will be around 14 degrees F tonight in Kabul. Toasty!!!

[10thzodiac]

It's bad enough when you got the guy's at the top, Johnson-Bush more worried about their legacy than the troops, their wars gone wrong; then insult to injury the civilians take a hard sh*t on you and call you a baby killer.

I blame our brain-fart leaders as the root cause of the baby killer name calling, not the name callers.

No, the North Vietnamese never invaded the west coast and Usama is not going to make our women wear burqa's.

What is happening, allot of Americans and Arabs are dying because of our ill advised misadventures into countries.

As long as we let our elected officials who have incidentally avoided military service one way or another start these un-necessary wars, we can expect to be called names in default because we represent our failed fart-brain leaders policy's.

I personally never had the experience of being called a baby killer, but again, I hardly ever needed to wear my uniform off base.

Right after 9/11 I did have a gentleman in a mall, in a well to do Chicago suburb, Oakbrook, ask me if I was in the military after he noticed my license plates. I said, a long time ago. He shook my hand and thanked me and then drove off in his Mercedes. I doubt if he could tell a soldier from a Marine, or even knew what the Globe and Anchor was.

Horselady, if subtle manipulation is your aim, you haven't done badly judging by your response, excepting me of course, good for you http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif

SF
10th

[booksbenji]

Ma'am, it does not matter which war you were in, the POOP happens. It was said 'bout our Vet's in almost all of our wars. Combat does not grace anyone with specials powers of being a hero or a scumbag, depends who is saying watt at the time. 'Nam, I guess, was a special war where fighting words came out of all people. Yes, us Nammies want to make sure that these depairing terms never surface again but human nature being human nature 'em fighting words are gonna be spoke of. I pity the SOB that tries that with my son. A crutch up his :scared: hole and a 1 in his mouth! :evilgrin:

[rktect3j]

It figures that you would blame the current pres or admin for this type of behaviour. I no longer expect anything from you. You are relieved from any further "intelligent" thought. Thanks for playing though.

[10thzodiac]

It figures that you would blame the current pres or admin for this type of behaviour. I no longer expect anything from you. You are relieved from any further "intelligent" thought. Thanks for playing though.

Good thing you didn't say, "intelligent" behaviour http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/27.gif


See you around the base rktect3j !

10th http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/18.gif

[003XXMarineDAD]

We were at a anit war group counter protest showing our support for the Troops when one of the anti war group came over and asked how we could support baby killers. When I replied we do this for our son that had just got back from Iraq. His repliey to this was that he was sorry he had returned safe. I damn near lost it then but being how we had the permit for that counter protest I had his ass removed for our side of the street.
:D
His rant after that was I had prevented his free speech. I told him he was violating my air and made me sick.

[horselady]

We were at a anit war group counter protest showing our support for the Troops when one of the anti war group came over and asked how we could support baby killers. When I replied we do this for our son that had just got back from Iraq. His repliey to this was that he was sorry he had returned safe. I damn near lost it then but being how we had the permit for that counter protest I had his ass removed for our side of the street.
:D
His rant after that was I had prevented his free speech. I told him he was violating my air and made me sick.

I don't know how you controlled yourself. I'd have ended up
in jail if I had encountered this scumbag.
http://bestsmileys.com/angry1/5.gif

[SgtHMH]

These people can say what they want, 'sticks and stones may hurt my bones, but names will never hurt me". If you hit them or assault them, you will be arrested and then they will sue you. This is what these people want you to do, is go off on them. Marines we were called maggets, and other names in Boot Camp. Are you going to let a dirt bag hurt your feelings with some name calling ? When they threaten you is when you got them in the ringer. I was in my cop uniform under my nonuniform coat when I got him. So just look at them and smile, because you know the truth about what you done or went through. Don't go to their level and end up in some sort of court mess over talk and lose your hard earned property over them, think about it okay.

Semper Fi OOOORRRAAAHHH

Sgt. Hoss

[SuNmAN]

We were at a anit war group counter protest showing our support for the Troops when one of the anti war group came over and asked how we could support baby killers. When I replied we do this for our son that had just got back from Iraq. His repliey to this was that he was sorry he had returned safe. I damn near lost it then but being how we had the permit for that counter protest I had his ass removed for our side of the street.
:D
His rant after that was I had prevented his free speech. I told him he was violating my air and made me sick.


I would've broken his nose

[SkilletsUSMC]

I would've broken his nose

No you wouldnt. Judging by most of your other posts, You would have smiled at him and told him that even though you disagree, you are so happy to have a society that allows the free and open excange of ideas. And that his right to be completely callous to that family in public is what America really stands for....

Remember, breaking his nose is against the law, and we must allways stick to those laws because we hold the moral high ground....:sick:

[10thzodiac]

Gentleman <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Raising your fist to someone is assault in itself. Or even touching someone softly with your finger, they can have you arrested for assault. <br />
<br />
I was wrongfully arrested once...

[drumcorpssnare]

10thz- Hey, we have something else in common! I had someone pull a gun on me when I was stationed at K-Bay in Hawaii. It was on Hotel St. in Honolulu...around 0200. Asian guy puts a gun behind my left ear and demands my money. (It was payday.) When I told him I had no money, he called me a liar. I said to him, "If you're gonna use that gun, you'd better use it, before I stick it up your a$$!!!" (yes, I had had a few too many.)
He lowered the pistol, stepped back, and ran down the street. Lucky for me, I never saw him again.:banana:

Just goes to show...a lot of us Marines ARE crazy!

SEMPER FI:usmc:
drumcorpssnare

[rktect3j]

Do you have all these stories written down somewhere and then when the time is ripe you copy and paste them?

[SuNmAN]

No you wouldnt. Judging by most of your other posts, You would have smiled at him and told him that even though you disagree, you are so happy to have a society that allows the free and open excange of ideas. And that his right to be completely callous to that family in public is what America really stands for....

Remember, breaking his nose is against the law, and we must allways stick to those laws because we hold the moral high ground....:sick:

dude no need to be sarcastic. I'm sorry I advocate the humane treatment of prisoners and protecting the rights of Americans.

I would've broken his nose. This man is a disgrace to the American people.

Just because I am a little more liberal than most of y'all doesn't mean I stand for letting this man dishonor our troops, our Corps and our country.

[SuNmAN]

Guess I'd have to break his friggin nose then run off so he cant sue me. Or as a college student I can claim zero net worth so he cant get **** from suing me. <br />
<br />
faggot

[rktect3j]

dude no need to be sarcastic. I'm sorry I advocate the humane treatment of prisoners and protecting the rights of Americans.

I would've broken his nose. This man is a disgrace to the American people.

Just because I am a little more liberal than most of y'all doesn't mean I stand for letting this man dishonor our troops, our Corps and our country.

I would bet that most of us here have that thing in the back of our mind that prevents us from rushing into poor decision making. What was that thing again? Oh yeah. Common sense. Forgot for a moment. Anyway, common sense usually takes over as we weigh the consequences for our actions. Maybe we both would use that and instead say to the other guy something smart like, "the best part of you ran down your momma's crack." in order to then provoke the asshat into action thus allowing us to defend ourselves by breaking his nose.

Semper Fi.

[SkilletsUSMC]

dude no need to be sarcastic. I'm sorry I advocate the humane treatment of prisoners and protecting the rights of Americans.

I would've broken his nose. This man is a disgrace to the American people.

Just because I am a little more liberal than most of y'all doesn't mean I stand for letting this man dishonor our troops, our Corps and our country.

So you are saying that its OK to punch a hippy in the face for calling someone a name (I agree), but NOT OK to detain a individual at a facility (where they get 3 hots and a cot+medical treatment) for ties to our sworn enemy?

[SuNmAN]

So you are saying that its OK to punch a hippy in the face for calling someone a name (I agree), but NOT OK to detain a individual at a facility (where they get 3 hots and a cot+medical treatment) for ties to our sworn enemy?

its ok to detain him. But they deserve humane treatment and a fair trial.

[SkilletsUSMC]

its ok to detain him. But they deserve humane treatment and a fair trial.

Read it again... its OK for you to punch a guy for an opinion, but insurgents must be treated humane? Cant I punch Mr mohammed mujaheed? He only killed my boy?

[SuNmAN]

Read it again... its OK for you to punch a guy for an opinion, but insurgents must be treated humane? Cant I punch Mr mohammed mujaheed? He only killed my boy?


what do you suggest? That we torture and abuse our prisoners of war?

[SkilletsUSMC]

what do you suggest? That we torture and abuse our prisoners of war?

You are disapointing me....

Im calling you a hypocrite for saying you would break someones nose for saying something mean. But people who cut the heads off of americans deserve "fair treatment"

[David Jameson]

I think his mind is gone.Gonna be a long war!

[SuNmAN]

You are disapointing me....

Im calling you a hypocrite for saying you would break someones nose for saying something mean. But people who cut the heads off of americans deserve "fair treatment"

Yes. In this case he would get a trial and be EXECUTED FOR MURDER.

A fair trial is obviously not to be advantageous to those who are guilty, but a chance for those who are innocent to vindicate themselves in a court of law.

[SuNmAN]

I think his mind is gone.Gonna be a long war!

There more to this war than just "killing every terrorist you see"...

earning the support of a large majority of the Iraqi people is the only way to win.

That means the Iraqi people need to see the US military as JUST.

[SkilletsUSMC]

There more to this war than just "killing every terrorist you see"...

earning the support of a large majority of the Iraqi people is the only way to win.

That means the Iraqi people need to see the US military as JUST.

I used to believe that, but form talking to Iraqis what they want to see is STRONG. Their culture is much different then ours.

[SuNmAN]

I used to believe that, but form talking to Iraqis what they want to see is STRONG. Their culture is much different then ours.

yes, STRONG AND JUST.

Strong as in "can you protect me from durka durka hajji who might blow up my house tommorrow?"

and right now we are NOT doing a good job of that.

We need 500,000 troops on the ground.

Either that or leave the country so Americans stop dying.

[SkilletsUSMC]

yes, STRONG AND JUST.

Strong as in "can you protect me from durka durka hajji who might blow up my house tommorrow?"

and right now we are NOT doing a good job of that.

We need 500,000 troops on the ground.

Either that or leave the country so Americans stop dying.

No no no....

Strong like the neighbor hood knows that if they harbor insurgents, they're ****ed. Right now we are fighting with both hands tied behind our back.

First we need order, second we can introduce democratic values, and the peacful exchange of ideas.

[SuNmAN]

No no no....

Strong like the neighbor hood knows that if they harbor insurgents, they're ****ed. Right now we are fighting with both hands tied behind our back.

First we need order, second we can introduce democratic values, and the peacful exchange of ideas.


Really? Do you think you're the first one to come up with this strategy?

We tried this in Vietnam and it didn't work.

The NVA and Viet Cong said: "if you work with the Americans, we will kill you"

we said - "if you harbor Viet Cong, we will come burn and destroy your village"


WOW WHAT A CATCH-22. So they're ****ed either way?????

I'm pretty sure they would side with the terrorists seeing as they KNOW we are at least somewhat bound by rules of engagement and the enemy is NOT. And we could withdraw at anytime while the enemy would be there indefinitely.

Think about it.

[SuNmAN]

In an example given by Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock's biography - Sniper, a Vietnamese farmer was COERCED by the Viet Cong with fire shots at night into the air to disrupt the sleep of American troops.

He was shot in the head by an American sniper

so he would've gotten killed one way or another.

That strategy does not work.

[SkilletsUSMC]

Really? Do you think you're the first one to come up with this strategy?

We tried this in Vietnam and it didn't work.

The NVA and Viet Cong said: "if you work with the Americans, we will kill you"

we said - "if you harbor Viet Cong, we will come burn and destroy your village"


WOW WHAT A CATCH-22. So they're ****ed either way?????

I'm pretty sure they would side with the terrorists seeing as they KNOW we are at least somewhat bound by rules of engagement and the enemy is NOT. And we could withdraw at anytime while the enemy would be there indefinitely.

Think about it.

What "lost" the war in Vietnam wasnt our tough on VC policy, it was the culture revolution happening back at home. All they had to do was ride it out and we would leave eventually. ****, we werent even allowed to push into N. Vietnam on foot.

The NVA and VC are 1000 times the adversary than the Muj, and look where we are today....

You think about it.

[rktect3j]

The vc are not who we are against right now. I agree with skillet on this. These people only know and respect strength. Brutal strength. Period. Mercy and justice are a sign of weakness to them. They will happily take that from you but the return for it is appalingly substandard.

[10thzodiac]

Do you have all these stories written down somewhere and then when the time is ripe you copy and paste them?

In reference to your above interrogatory:

Joe, I recently took an on line IQ test and you'll never guess the results; not bad for 2 1/2 years of High School, huh ?

Copy & paste follows:

Your Intellectual Type Is:

You are equipped with a verbal arsenal that enables you to understand complex issues and communicate on a particularly high level. These talents make you a Word Warrior.

Whether or not you recognize it, your vocabulary is your strongest suit—use it whenever you can. Since your command of words is so great, you are also a terrific communicator — able to articulate big ideas to just about anyone. Your wordsmithing prowess will also help in artistic and creative pursuits. The power of words translates to fresh ideas off paper too. Since you have so many words at your disposal, you are in a unique position to describe things in an original way, as well as see the future in your mind’s eye.

In short, your strengths allow you to be a visionary — able to extrapolate and come up with a multitude of fresh ideas. And you are in good company — bask in the brilliance of Word Warriors who have walked before you. William Shakespeare let loose the power of his pen. His ability to articulate the most subtle nuances of human nature and to create colorful characters are why his stories still have a major impact — even 400 years after he first wrote them. Whether you put pen to paper or use your understanding of the words around you to come up with creative approaches to problems, your potential as a Word Warrior is terrific.

Great Jobs For You

Because of the way you process information, these are just some of the many careers in which you could excel:

Writer
Translator
Publisher
Attorney
Poet
Politician
Journalist
Lecturer


Some of Your Greatest Talents

You’ve got tons of strengths. It wouldn’t surprise us if you:

Can clarify complex issues
Can articulate commonly understood truths
Can foster understanding
Can creatively solve problems


SF
10th http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/22.gif

[10thzodiac]

[quote=horselady]But but, but.....any more baby killer stories? The libs
on that board just get so irritated hearing them.

What's a matter with your alleged gyrine, is he a wussy, can't post for himself or are you just a poser ? Let see some proof besides horse sh*t !

Give all of us some real proof you are not a poser and an explanation why your alleged Jarhead can't and hasn't been doing his own talking except through you. Let us talk to him. We'll get the posers hosers to check him out. Please, don't tell us he's your ex now.

10th

[greensideout]

In reference to your above interrogatory:

Joe, I recently took an on line IQ test and you'll never guess the results; not bad for 2 1/2 years of High School, huh ?

Copy & paste follows:

Your Intellectual Type Is:

You are equipped with a verbal arsenal that enables you to understand complex issues and communicate on a particularly high level. These talents make you a Word Warrior.

Whether or not you recognize it, your vocabulary is your strongest suit—use it whenever you can. Since your command of words is so great, you are also a terrific communicator — able to articulate big ideas to just about anyone. Your wordsmithing prowess will also help in artistic and creative pursuits. The power of words translates to fresh ideas off paper too. Since you have so many words at your disposal, you are in a unique position to describe things in an original way, as well as see the future in your mind’s eye.

In short, your strengths allow you to be a visionary — able to extrapolate and come up with a multitude of fresh ideas. And you are in good company — bask in the brilliance of Word Warriors who have walked before you. William Shakespeare let loose the power of his pen. His ability to articulate the most subtle nuances of human nature and to create colorful characters are why his stories still have a major impact — even 400 years after he first wrote them. Whether you put pen to paper or use your understanding of the words around you to come up with creative approaches to problems, your potential as a Word Warrior is terrific.

Great Jobs For You

Because of the way you process information, these are just some of the many careers in which you could excel:

Writer
Translator
Publisher
Attorney
Poet
Politician
Journalist
Lecturer


Some of Your Greatest Talents

You’ve got tons of strengths. It wouldn’t surprise us if you:

Can clarify complex issues
Can articulate commonly understood truths
Can foster understanding
Can creatively solve problems


SF
10th http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/22.gif


And your score was? LMAO

[horselady]

But but, but.....any more baby killer stories? The libs
on that board just get so irritated hearing them.

What if it was yours...in this country...

http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2006/08/israel_asks_us.php

Isreal didn't/doesn't mind. Don't think this person was a terrorist.

What's you point? Rockets from terrorists are being shot into Israel
every day, despite a cease fire. What are they supposed do? Sit back
and take it? What would we do if rockets from Canada were being
launched into Shicao every day?

[10thzodiac]

And your score was? LMAO

Copy & Paste:

You scored 117 on your IQ test. Most people’s IQs are between 70 and 130.

Geensideout, in America it is not what you know, it is what is in your pocket that really matters! http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif

"Money talks and bullsh*t walks."

Just think, if we stayed in school and got higher IQs, maybe we wouldn't of got "stuck in" Cuba and/or Vietnam ! http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif

Goodnight Bro

SF
10th

[greensideout]

Copy & Paste:

You scored 117 on your IQ test. Most people’s IQs are between 70 and 130.

Geensideout, in America it is not what you know, it is what is in your pocket that really matters! http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif

"Money talks and bullsh*t walks."

Just think, if we stayed in school and got higher IQs, maybe we wouldn't of got "stuck in" Cuba and/or Vietnam ! http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif

Goodnight Bro

SF
10th








lol---I went over that 130 mark as you most likely did. If we had taken the test when we were 20 we may have been scored as numnuts---lol.

Goodnight Marine

[thedrifter]

Since this post is going nowhere except for personal attacks we are locking it down....

Ellie