Breakaway time? [Archive] - Marine Corps

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SkilletsUSMC

11-19-06, 10:36 AM

yellowwing

11-19-06, 11:09 AM

?? Where would we get financing?

SkilletsUSMC

11-19-06, 11:14 AM

The FFL is supported by the french gov, but it is a totally independant military force. Im not saying we wouldnt get US tax dollars, just not through the DOD.

jerryk

11-19-06, 11:27 AM

way you sound instead of joining the U.S.MARINE CORPS you should have joined the french ,me i would not join a loseing team,they never win a battle in their history

yellowwing

11-19-06, 11:34 AM

A more independent Corps? I don't know about that, Tradition is just too much of who we are.

jryanjack

11-19-06, 03:38 PM

Agree - the USMC is all about tradition and we will stand or fall with it. Not to knock the legion though - they are hard corps - they may not win alot but its not through a lack of trying - most often they're out numbered and out gunned and completely unsupported. Kinda hard to win with those odds.

SuNmAN

11-20-06, 07:18 AM

Lets not be so quick to knock the French -

I'll give a few reasons:

1. Ok, we helped restore the French Republic after World War II, freeing them from Nazi Germany rule, BUT if it weren't for French aid in the American revolution, there would not be a United States of America in existance today.

2. France HAS THE RIGHT to not cooperate with the United States in the Iraq issue. They care about their national interests, we care about ours.

3. They are still our allies, and our relationship is still friendly.

4. People keep saying the French can't win battles and can't win wars. Consider their opponents since WWII - Nazi Germany didn't just kick France's ass - they kicked EVERYONE's ass. Eventually they bit off more than they could chew when they hit Russia, but before that they roamed Europe pretty much unopposed. Britain certainly wasn't going to be able to invade and liberate Europe by themselves.

They got their asses kicked in IndoChina - well guess what? So did we lol...

DWG

11-20-06, 08:09 AM

Lets not be so quick to knock the French

They got their asses kicked in IndoChina - well guess what? So did we lol...
Ohhhhhhh! I know you didn't say that! PREPARE FOR THE WHIRLWIND!

DWG

11-20-06, 08:54 AM

Actually, the Legion held its' own in Indo-China until they were flushed down the bowl of Diem Bien Phu. Another example of politicians losing a war due to meddling on the part of beaurocrats with no understanding of the complexities of war and too proud to admit it. Damn, that does sounds oddly familiar.

ggyoung

11-20-06, 11:41 AM

The French Foreign Legion========Remember the one word that sayes it all is "FOREIGN". They do not alow french citizens to join. If you are running from something they will take you and give you a new name and after your service you can become a french citizen. ( Who would want that? No body here I'm sure.) Good reads about the Legion==Street With Joy and Hell in a Very Small Place the Seage of Diem Bien Phu. By B.B. Fall. Fall was killed on his Street Without Joy in 1967 I belive. He was with the Marines during a big operation. I think his wife finished the book and I don't remember the name. The frist Americans killed in Vietnam were killed on 6May1954. Two C119 flying box cars bring in ammo to Diem Bien Phu. There were a few Americans killed in POW camps during WW2. I guess they don't count. They should.

Osotogary

11-20-06, 12:44 PM

From what I understand, ggyoung, all commands were given in French. In other words, a Legionnaire recruit had to learn French as he was being trained. Names? I think that you had a choice to either chose you own "new" name or they would issue you one.
Below is an interesting about the French Foriegn Legion.
Tomorrow to Be Brave: A Memoir of the Only Woman Ever to Serve in the French Foreign Legion.
Englishwoman Susan Travers, aka "La Miss," now 91, was the only woman ever to serve officially with the French Foreign Legion. Travers's story begins with her lonely girlhood, spent wishing she were a boy and yearning for her military father's approval. In her late teens and 20s during Europe's decadent '20s Travers rebelled, hitting every baccarat table and aristocrat's bed she could find. When war broke out in 1939, she was ready to live out her girlhood fantasies of exotic travel and heroic service. Joining de Gaulle's Free French, she endured the mandatory nursing training and in North Africa found the work she wanted, as a front-line driver. Eventually, she became Gen. Pierre Koenig's personal driver and secret lover. She emerged a decorated hero of the bloody Bir Hakeim campaign in Libya, often referred to as the Verdun of WWII. Her (married) general's career also advanced too far for their affair to continue. In her despair, Travers joined up and became a true Legionnaire, escaping her unhappiness by immersing herself in the world of warfare. Still, "je ne regrette rien" is the message here, which may be why this prefeminist figure sounds so inspiring to modern ears. (June)Forecast: With enough review attention and the right endorsements, this action-packed romance could find its way onto many women's shelves. Its historical interest should attract students, and the saga of a woman fighting to live on her own terms could draw reading- group interest.
Adios.
Gary

jinelson

11-20-06, 01:04 PM

SkilletsUSMC are you actually suggesting that we be allowed to Win A War against a sworn enemy? The defeatocrats would die and go to hell before they would ever allow that!

10thzodiac

11-20-06, 01:30 PM

It's un-American, not to outsource !

Why not fighting and dieing, sounds good to me

Better than having my name on a black granite wall

Just thinking

jinelson

11-20-06, 01:33 PM

by SuNmANPeople keep saying the French can't win battles and can't win wars. Consider their opponents since WWII - Nazi Germany didn't just kick France's ass - they kicked EVERYONE's ass. Eventually they bit off more than they could chew when they hit Russia, but before that they roamed Europe pretty much unopposed. Britain certainly wasn't going to be able to invade and liberate Europe by themselves.

They got their asses kicked in IndoChina - well guess what? So did we lol...

SuNmAn check out the French military history:

- Gallic Wars
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian. [Or at ths time in history, a Roman -ed.]

- Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.

- Italian Wars
- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

- Wars of Religion
- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

- Thirty Years War
- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

- War of Revolution
- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

- The Dutch War
- Tied

- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

- War of the Spanish Succession
- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

- American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

- French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

- The Franco-Prussian War
- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

- World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States [Entering the war late -ed.]. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

- World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

- War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu

- Algerian Rebellion
- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

- War on Terrorism
- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France collapses?"

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."

Or, better still, the quote from last week's Wall Street Journal: "They're there when they need you."

Norse invasions, 841-911.
After having their way with the French for 70 years, the Norse are bribed by a French King named Charles the Simple (really!) who gave them Normandy in return for peace. Normans proceed to become just about the only positive military bonus in France's [favour] for next 500 years.

1066 A.D. William The Conquerer Duke and Ruler of France Launches the Largest Invasion in the history of the world no other was as large until the same trip was taken in reverse on June 6th 1944 William Fights Harold for the Throne of England Which old king Edward rightfully left to William but Harold Usurped the throne Will fights the Saxons (English)wins and the French Rule England for the Next 80 Years. then the French start the largest building and economic infrastructure since the fall of the Roman Empire the Norman Economy skyrockets and the Normans inadvertantly start England to become a major world Power Vive La France-

Mexico, 1863-1864.
France attempts to take advantage of Mexico's weakness following its thorough thrashing by the U.S. 20 years earlier ("Halls of Montezuma"). Not surprisingly, the only unit to distinguish itself is the French Foreign Legion (consisting of, by definition, non-Frenchmen). Booted out of the country a little over a year after arrival.

Panama jungles 1881-1890.
No one but nature to fight, France still loses; canal is eventually built by the U.S. 1904-1914.

Napoleonic Wars.
Should be noted that the Grand Armee was largely (~%50) composed of non-Frenchmen after 1804 or so. Mainly disgruntled minorities and anti-monarchists. Not surprisingly, these performed better than the French on many occasions.

Haiti, 1791-1804.
French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare; when in doubt, send an ally.

India, 1673-1813.
British were far more charming than French, ended up victors. Therefore the British are well known for their tea, and the French for their whine (er, wine...). Ensures 200 years of bad teeth in England.

Barbary Wars, middle ages-1830.
Pirates in North Africa continually harass European shipping in Meditteranean. France's solution: pay them to leave us alone. America's solution: kick their asses ("the Shores of Tripoli"). [America's] first overseas victories, won 1801-1815.

1798-1801, Quasi-War with U.S.
French privateers (semi-legal pirates) attack U.S. shipping. U.S. fights France at sea for 3 years; French eventually cave; sets precedent for next 200 years of Franco-American relations.

Moors in Spain, late 700s-early 800s.
Even with Charlemagne leading them against an enemy living in a hostile land, French are unable to make much progress. Hide behind Pyrennes until the modern day.

French-on-French losses (probably should be counted as victories too, just to be fair):

1208: Albigenses Crusade, French massacared by French.
When asked how to differentiate a heretic from the faithful, response was "Kill them all. God will know His own." Lesson: French are badasses when fighting unarmed men, women and children.

St. Bartholomew Day Massacre, August 24, 1572.
Once again, French-on-French slaughter.

Third Crusade.
Philip Augustus of France throws hissy-fit, leaves Crusade for Richard the Lion Heart to finish.

Seventh Crusade.
St. Louis of France leads Crusade to Egypt. Resoundingly crushed.

[Eighth] Crusade.
St. Louis back in action, this time in Tunis. See Seventh Crusade.

Also should be noted that France attempted to hide behind the Maginot line, sticking their head in the sand and pretending that the Germans would enter France that way. By doing so, the Germans would have been breaking with their traditional route of invading France, entering through Belgium (Napoleonic Wars, Franco-Prussian War, World War I, etc.). French ignored this though, and put all their effort into these defenses.

Seven year War 1756-1763
Lost: after getting hammered by Frederick the Great of Prussia (yep, the Germans again) at Rossbach, the French were held off for the remainder of the War by Frederick of Brunswick and a hodge-podge army including some Brits. War also saw France kicked out of Canada (Wolfe at Quebec) and India (Clive at Plassey).

The French consider the departure of the French from Algeria in 1962-63, after 130 years on colonialism, as a French victory and especially consider C. de Gaulle as a hero for 'leading' said victory over the unwilling French public who were very much against the departure. This ended their colonialism. About 2 million ungrateful Algerians lost their lives in this shoddy affair.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/jinelson/ddaygraves.jpg

According to the American Battle Monuments Commission
There are 26,255 Yankee dead from World War I buried in 4 cemeteries in France.
There are 30,426 American dead from World War II buried in 6 cemeteries in France.
These 56,681 brave American heroes died in their youth to liberate a country
which is guilty of shameful unspeakable behavior in the 21st century.
May the people of the United States of America never forget their sacrifice.

France Sucks.....plain and simple! They are NO FRIENDS and they have stabbed us in the back and now even spied on us!

We will NEVER forget this. The people and government of France should be ashamed of themselves and should apologize!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/jinelson/french_knife.gif

10thzodiac

11-20-06, 01:39 PM

Don't forget if it wasn't for the French, you'd be speaking Kings George's English and I don't mean King Dubya's either :D

ggyoung

11-20-06, 01:50 PM

10Z=============If you fight and die were would like your name to be? No mattere were your name is YOU is DEAD.

10thzodiac

11-20-06, 02:16 PM

10Z=============If you fight and die were would like your name to be? No mattere were your name is YOU is DEAD.

It is better to say, "Old to soon than smart to late".http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif

SF
10thzodiac

eddief

11-21-06, 11:15 AM

I just posted the thread about gays being allowed into the miltary, and to me that is the last straw.

I was watching a show about the French Foreign Legion, and I thought it might be time for the Corps to break away from the DoD, and become kinda like the FFL.

What do you think?

Gays are already serving in the military - even in our beloved Corps.

The question is whether they should be allowed to be openly gay in the military.

At this point I don't think so because there are too many backwards ****s still in the service who would do these patriots bodily harm simply because of whom they choose to sleep with.

DWG

11-21-06, 11:52 AM

They know the rules to the game when they enlist-if they don't want to play by them-don't enlist! No one is forcing them i.e. a draft to be in the military-and if they insist-there's always the navy!

10thzodiac

11-21-06, 11:54 AM

Could you imagine being passed over for promotion for not sucking up http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/12.gif

Don't ask, don't tell equals:
WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW WON'T HURT YOU http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/33.gif

10thzodiac

11-21-06, 11:58 AM

Bisexuals, Gays, and Lesbians in the Military 
 
 
 
 
This page gives direct access to all the references on my pages about Bisexuals, Gays, and Lesbians in the military. It also has a lot of...

DWG

11-21-06, 12:07 PM

I find it interesting that the nave and air force have the highest recorded incidence/populace-could it be something about those blue costumes, er uniforms?

FistFu68

11-21-06, 01:11 PM

:usmc: HEY~L/CPL~SUNBOY;YOU WEREN'T IN FRIGGING VIET-NAM!MAYBE ON YOU'R FUC-ING:X~BOX!WHEN YOU REFER TO THE VIET~NAM WAR~STOW THE WE CHIT~IF YOU WEREN'T THERE, SHUT THE FUC~UP!!! WHEN MY BOOT'S LEFT~WE WERE WINNING!!!'NUFF SAID!!!10/4:usmc:

DWG

11-21-06, 01:29 PM

:idea: Damn FF68; About time you piped up! When I saw that I figured the blood would start to fly. Took a whole day-I thought I would actually hear the screaming within minutes of that post. Go get 'em, tiger. That's the problem with folks who learn their history from movies like Heartbreak Ridge-"we're 0-1-1". Dinks were on the brink when the politicians went yella!:!:

drumcorpssnare

11-21-06, 03:22 PM

Maybe America's gay population needs to have THEIR OWN branch of the military. They could wear pink uniforms. They could be the first to show up at the enemie's doorstep...with flowers, and that silly smirk on their face.
The enemy would be laughing so freakin' hard, they'd throw up their hands and SURRENDER!!! Then the GENUINE patriots of this country wouldn't have to shed their blood. The war would be over, and the world would have a good laugh! CONGRESS...??? "Git 'er done!"

SEMPER FI:usmc:
drumcorpssnare

SkilletsUSMC

11-21-06, 03:59 PM

way you sound instead of joining the U.S.MARINE CORPS you should have joined the french ,me i would not join a loseing team,they never win a battle in their history

Ok jerryk, the way you sound, you would rather have the Corps be totally neutered to the point where we are just the army... Not me. Where did my post say I wanted to Join the French Foreign Legion? For those who need clarification, I said that the Marine Corps may have to break off form the DoD to keep the Dems/libs from totally emasculating us. I dont hate or want to hurt gays, I really dont care either way about gays so long as they are civilians. BUT I DO NOT want gays in the Marine Corps, and if a Marine is found to be gay he/she should be shown the door.

greensideout

11-21-06, 07:41 PM

rktect3j

11-21-06, 07:48 PM

You know, if you are going to be spoon fed your information for later regurgitation you might want it to be half way accurate. That is just my 2 cents.

Semper Fi to all Viet Nam era Marine vets who kicked their ass's.