View Full Version : "The Plot to Seize The White House"
10thzodiac
11-04-06, 10:32 PM
This book has achieved the "rare" book status. Rumor has it that copies are being bought up to erase its existence, ending its stain on reputations on rich families with embarrasing ancestery.
The story in brief is Marine General Smedley Butler was approached to lead a coup d'etat to overthrow democracy in 1933 & 1934. (Reminding modern readers, 1933 was the year Hitler assumed power in Germany.) He declined, and exposed the plot. The plotters then employed the "OJ Simpson" theory of defense: "if you have enough money you can get away with murder."
http://www.chris-floyd.com/plot/The_Plot_to_Sieze_the_White_House_by_Jules_Archer/
http://www.chris-floyd.com/plot/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
SF
10th
Be fair Zodiac-a lot of them died suspiciously! As long as there is an internet the info will be out there, the problem is that most people don't give a crap about history; that's why we keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time (this is a clinical definition of insanity, by the way). The incident you refer to is the only civil war this country ever almost had.
rktect3j
11-05-06, 10:41 AM
Be fair Zodiac-a lot of them died suspiciously! As long as there is an internet the info will be out there, the problem is that most people don't give a crap about history; that's why we keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time (this is a clinical definition of insanity, by the way). The incident you refer to is the only civil war this country ever almost had.
People do care about history, which is why we keep doing the same thing over and over. Sometimes we do it better the second time around.
jinelson
11-05-06, 10:49 AM
Aint that the truth!
rktect3j
11-05-06, 11:09 AM
I bet Milosovich was paying attention to history.
I bet Saddam was paying attention to history.
I bet even the Hutus in Rwanda were quite aware of history.
And I can guarantee you that Ahmadinajad is very accutely aware of history.
Let us hope that the Marines remember their history and that Americans do not forget it either.
Unfortunately, the history they pay attention to is the history on the west taking no action after rattling our sabers and appealling to the un. The only time in recent history we have taken action it has been half-hearted or weakened by "public opinion" and we quit before the job is done. Viet Nam should have taught us to go in(if we have to), let the military do the job it is paid to do(kill people, break things), incarcerate any and all persons who might cause problems(i.e. Germany 1945) and then turn the gov over to people we like/trust when the area is secure. Bush and his advisors pulled the same crap in Fallujah that Kennedy/Johnson/Nixon constantly did in Nam. You don't call a professional and then tell them how to do the job they are trained to do. It sucks, but most Americans have a very short attention span and a worse memory-politicians count on that. To gain victory requires sacrafice that most of our citizens do not want to make. But if we don't do it over there we will be doing it over here and that will really make folks squeal. The military is not a police force and the politicos trying to turn it into one will only weaken it.
Something else that we need to keep in mind when it comes to ready access to "history" as it pertains to the internet; the easier it is to access historical sites, the easier it is to manipulate the content on the given site!
The average person is also given to believing the history that supports their pre-conceptions and biases and not further researching it!
It's good to learn history, but better to STUDY history!
Camper51
11-06-06, 12:47 PM
Be fair Zodiac-a lot of them died suspiciously! As long as there is an internet the info will be out there, the problem is that most people don't give a crap about history; that's why we keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time (this is a clinical definition of insanity, by the way). The incident you refer to is the only civil war this country ever almost had.
How f*cking short is your memory???? We fought a rather major civil war in the 1860's if my memory and schoolbooks serve me correctly...
How f*cking short is your memory???? We fought a rather major civil war in the 1860's if my memory and schoolbooks serve me correctly...
By definition, that was not a "civil war". The Southern States had no desire to take the reins of power away from Washington, D.C., They only desired freedom from what they considered an oppressive government. The Southern States claimed the Constitution gave them the right to dissolve the bonds of union with the north. The Supreme court agreed! It was a revolution, designed to form their own government, separate from the United States. They lost, the Constitution was amended, a Country lived and died in four years.
drumcorpssnare
11-06-06, 01:05 PM
D W George- Wasn't it Clauswitz who said, "War is the result of failed politics." ? When we are at war, shouldn't the politicians keep their noses out of it, and let the warriors do their job?
If I needed an electrician to change a light bulb in my bathroom, I wouldn't call a plumber. He would probably have one foot in the toilet, when he reached for the light socket!
And...if the politicians don't want to let the warriors run the war, they shouldn't vote to send them in the first place!
SEMPER FI !:usmc:
drumcorpssnare
P.S. The Butler incident was an actual attempt to overthrow the government of the USA and usurp "that communist rooosevellt" as most of the plotters considered him. Jeez, Camper, you don't normally get so irate. BTW, I was at Comm School at Dago while they were abusing your ass on the grinder. Small world.
:marine:
D W George- Wasn't it Clauswitz who said, "War is the result of failed politics." ?
And...if the politicians don't want to let the warriors run the war, they shouldn't vote to send them in the first place!
SEMPER FI !:usmc:
drumcorpssnare
Robert Heinlein wrote an excellent book that addressed that very thing, Starship Troopers. The basic premise was you had to be a veteran to be a citizen, you had to be a citizen to hold office, that way no feathermerchant would be sending troops to do something they hadn't been willing to do themselves-always sounded like a good idea to me. And yes, politicians should butt out once they,ve screwed the pooch and given the mess to the military.
rktect3j
11-06-06, 01:30 PM
P.S. The Butler incident was an actual attempt to overthrow the government of the USA and usurp "that communist rooosevellt" as most of the plotters considered him. Jeez, Camper, you don't normally get so irate. BTW, I was at Comm School at Dago while they were abusing your ass on the grinder. Small world.
:marine:
This has happened before aroun 1805. I read a book called the Barbary Pirates, I think. At any rate it was about Tripoli. After that thought they went into how Eaton had been in touch with a man out in the new frontier wanted to overthrow or at least split up the Americas. Wish I could remember more. At any rate Eaton told Jeffereson and it was squashed.
New England threatened secession during the war of 1812 and refused to send troops to fight. British agent in Canada kept them stirred up for years and some think the abolisionist movement was inspired by the British to create divisiveness in the States. Lotta cool stuff in history they don't tell you about in school.
Camper51
11-06-06, 02:03 PM
The fact that countrymen took up arms against their government makes it a civil war. Just because they said it was a secession does not make it otherwise...
If memory serves me right, the 'South' was originally 'invaded' by the 'North', 1st Bull Run....
:beer: :beer: :p
No, in their opinion the government took up arms against them and invaded their home. A civil war is a struggle between two parties to sieze control of power. A revolution can be a civil war but, as in 1776, it can also be an attempt to become free of an old system of government.
If memory serves me right, the 'South' was originally 'invaded' by the 'North', 1st Bull Run....
:beer: :beer: :p The illegal attempt to resupply Ft. Sumter was the initial invasion.
DWGeorge...
We be on the same side shipmate (I think!), I believe the South was shafted, and this is from a reconstructed yankee....!!
SF
:beer: :beer: :nerd:
All my folks served the great State of Georgia, back in the day. The South was not only shafted, our type of government was redirected, from sovereign states in union together to federalist control of vassal states, north and south alike.
DW...
You bout got it rite, owe ya a beer....
Cheers and SF....
:beer: :beer: :nerd:
If memory serves me right, the 'South' was originally 'invaded' by the 'North', 1st Bull Run....
:beer: :beer:
Skiff, if you want to be Southern, you have to learn the proper names; Bull Run is really Manassas. Dead give away that you were once a yankee before you got reconstructed.
:D
drumcorpssnare
11-07-06, 05:54 AM
Hey D W- How do you figure Federal ships re-supplying a Federal fort (Sumter) as illegal?
I have been a student of the Great Rebellion for many years, and have the utmost respect for the courage and conviction displayed by the people of the South. Sad that so many Americans were killed and wounded. Would have been nice if comprimises could have prevented the war.
drumcorpssnare
Hey D W- How do you figure Federal ships re-supplying a Federal fort (Sumter) as illegal?
drumcorpssnare
It had been understood that Carolinian militia would not fire on the fort as long as no attempts to reenforce or resupply were made. Lincoln chose to break that agreement thus giving southern hotheads the excuse they needed to start the ball. His subsequent call for invasion of S. Carolina to "quell" the rebellion pushed the undeclared mid Atlantic States to decide for secession. It has been speculated that had Lincoln not forced the issue it might have settled out without violence.(I doubt it-it was a powder keg situation and everyone had a lit match).
:(
10thzodiac
11-07-06, 12:19 PM
D W George- Wasn't it Clauswitz who said, "War is the result of failed politics." ? When we are at war, shouldn't the politicians keep their noses out of it, and let the warriors do their job?
If I needed an electrician to change a light bulb in my bathroom, I wouldn't call a plumber. He would probably have one foot in the toilet, when he reached for the light socket!
And...if the politicians don't want to let the warriors run the war, they shouldn't vote to send them in the first place!
SEMPER FI !:usmc:
drumcorpssnare
Do you think it is to late to tell Bush that analogy, you know, not calling Rumsfeld to prosecute the ground war persecuting de facto America and her troops, the one foot in the toilet scenario while reaching for the light sockethttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/34.gif
Get a real boots on the ground military man instead of a Zoomie http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/06.gif
drumcorpssnare have you ever consider running for President http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/33.gif
SF
10thzodiac
FistFu68
11-07-06, 12:52 PM
:usmc: UNITED WE STAND,DIVIDED WE FALL! :usmc:
drumcorpssnare
11-07-06, 01:15 PM
10thzodiac-You can't be serious about me running for President. It doesn't pay enough to keep me in ibuprofen, for all it's headaches. Seriously, I'm sure there are plenty of Americans wiser than me, who would do a great job as Pres. and CinC. The tricky part is finding them. Then, they need to have thick enough skin to endure the fact thet EVERYONE wants to find fault with every decision they make. Sounds like fun, huh?
10th, are you at least 35 yrs. old, and born in the USA? Those are the only two requirements necessary to be President. Why don't YOU run? LOL:banana:
drumcorpssnare:usmc:
10thzodiac
11-07-06, 09:25 PM
I'm to honest to be president http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/27.gif
10thzodiac
12-05-06, 09:03 PM
Update: (2006/10/12) - The Plot To Seize The White House is going to be published next spring by Skyhorse Publishing
People do care about history, which is why we keep doing the same thing over and over. Sometimes we do it better the second time around.
that is true...
10thzodiac-You can't be serious about me running for President. It doesn't pay enough to keep me in ibuprofen, for all it's headaches. Seriously, I'm sure there are plenty of Americans wiser than me, who would do a great job as Pres. and CinC. The tricky part is finding them. Then, they need to have thick enough skin to endure the fact thet EVERYONE wants to find fault with every decision they make. Sounds like fun, huh?
10th, are you at least 35 yrs. old, and born in the USA? Those are the only two requirements necessary to be President. Why don't YOU run? LOL:banana:
drumcorpssnare:usmc:
Obama...!
Sgt Leprechaun
12-06-06, 06:57 AM
God, enough with Obama already!
And, Thanks 10th, I'll have to try and find that book when it's re-published.
10thzodiac
12-06-06, 08:07 PM
For those that are interested in purchasing the book, on how Marine General Smedley Darlington Butler saved our Democracy from a fascist plot hatched in the American Legion, to depose President Franklin D. Roosevelt and make General Butler the American Mussolini ! $11.06
http://www.ecampus.com/book/1602390363