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CoffeeHead20
09-07-06, 03:37 AM
"America goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy !"

...John Quincy Adams

10thzodiac
09-07-06, 07:51 AM
"America goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy !"

...John Quincy Adams


John Quincy Adams's


Warning Against the Search for "Monsters to Destroy," 1821
And now, friends and countrymen, if the wise and learned philosophers of the elder world, the first observers of nutation and aberration, the discoverers of maddening ether and invisible planets, the inventors of Congreve rockets and Shrapnel shells, should find their hearts disposed to enquire what has America done for the benefit of mankind? Let our answer be this: America, with the same voice which spoke herself into existence as a nation, proclaimed to mankind the inextinguishable rights of human nature, and the only lawful foundations of government. America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity. She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights. She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own. She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart. She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right. Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force.... She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....

CoffeeHead20
09-07-06, 07:54 AM
Amen ! S/f

jinelson
09-07-06, 08:19 AM
Neville Chamberlain's False Promise of Peace

Chamberlain served as prime minister of Britian from 1937 1940, Neville believed that war could be prevented by meeting the demands of Adolf hitler by giving Hitler the rest of Czechsolovia. In return for Czechsolovia Hitler promised that Germany would take no additional land from Europe. But on September 1, Germany took over Poland and two days later Britian was forced to become involved in World War 2. Now a days people call Chamberlain a fool.

Thanks for the liberal history lesson. I doubt that I would have cast my ballot for President Adams.

rktect3j
09-07-06, 11:56 AM
Maybe if we just give the terrorists Florida they'd leave us alone. Actually I hear they like Arizona so either way.

rktect3j
09-07-06, 12:08 PM
It comes to mind that Adams isn't living in todays world. It is ever changing as is America. Also, an assumption that America would be left alone as she has left the world alone. This isn't happening and we need to act or react. Even better we need to act prior to an action that is against our best interests. I am sure that in his day, when nothing was going poorly, he made a little sense but today that speach seems more akin to a white flag. Last time I checked we weren't the french.

We should also remember that America was about 35 years old at the time of this and the last thing America wanted was a lot of trouble. This is historical fact. This was a new fledgiling country and it needed to make other countries believe that we were only looking to ourselves and ot their borders.

Osotogary
09-07-06, 12:35 PM
Jim-
Neville believed that war could be prevented by meeting the demands of Adolf hitler by giving Hitler the rest of Czechsolovia.

Nice guy. Of coarse you know he had to have asked the Czechs to see if it was okay. NOT!

Maybe if we just give the terrorists Florida they'd leave us alone.

rktect3j- You aren't planning to run for public office down here in Florida are you? LOL
Actually, we do have terrorists in Florida and they are abundant. They are called New Yorkers and they drive vehicles. (I'd better watch what I am saying because I'm a transplant myself....that drives a vehicle.)

10thzodiac
09-07-06, 08:10 PM
"The powers in charge keep us in a perpetual state of fear keep us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil to...

DWG
09-08-06, 09:55 AM
Maybe if we just give the terrorists Florida they'd leave us alone. Actually I hear they like Arizona so either way.

We can't give them Florida-I don't think it's part of the U.S. anymore.:scared:

10thzodiac
09-08-06, 11:04 AM
Maybe if we just give the terrorists Florida they'd leave us alone. Actually I hear they like Arizona so either way.

D W George says: We can't give them Florida-I don't think it's part of the U.S. anymore.:scared:


WHO SAID THIS?

contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom.
If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example - Sweden?

See if you can figure out who is giving Sweden a free pass from terrorism ?
(hint, google the quote)

S/F

FistFu68
09-08-06, 11:31 AM
:usmc: YOU MEAN THE SAME DOUGLAS MacARTHOR,WHO GAVE THE ORDER TOO;MACHINE GUN DOWN HUNDRED'S OF VETERAN'S ON THE STREET'S OF WASHINGTON D.C? :usmc:

10thzodiac
09-09-06, 01:03 AM
:usmc: YOU MEAN THE SAME DOUGLAS MacARTHOR,WHO GAVE THE ORDER TOO;MACHINE GUN DOWN HUNDRED'S OF VETERAN'S ON THE STREET'S OF WASHINGTON D.C? :usmc:

One note before we get started, I could only find reference to two being killed. That is two to many.

Good point FISTFU68. In my opinion Macarthur could be an ******* too!

"We were heroes in 1917," said one veteran bitterly, "but we're bums now."
Hard economic times always incur a certain amount of social dislocation and consequently create opportunities for politically extreme movements.
There were many instances of labor unrest and strikes that turned violent, incidents that prompted temporary mobilizations of state National Guards.
There were also instances where regular Army troops were called out in aid of the civil power. The worst incident of this type was the Bonus Army March in Washington in the summer of 1932.
At the end of World War One, as the American Expeditionary Force was being demobilized, a grateful U.S. government passed legislation that authorized the payment of cash bonuses to war veterans, adjusted for length of service; a bond that matured 20 years later, in 1945.
However, the Crash of 1929 wiped out many veterans' savings and jobs, forcing them out into the streets. Groups of veterans began to organize and petition the government to pay them their cash bonus immediately.
In the spring of 1932, during the worst part of Depression, a group of 300 veterans in Portland, Oregon organized by an ex-Sergeant named Walter W. Walters named itself the 'Bonus Expeditionary Force' or 'Bonus Army', and began travelling across the country to Washington to lobby the government personally.
By the end of May over 3,000 veterans and their families had made their way to Washington, D.C. Most of them lived in a collection of makeshift huts and tents on the mud flats by the Anacostia River outside the city limits. Similar encampments could be found sheltering the migrant unemployed and poor outside any large city in the United States and were called 'Hoovervilles'. By July, almost 25,000 people lived in Anacostia, making it the largest one in the country.
In June, the Patman Bonus Bill, which proposed immediate payment of the veterans' cash bonuses, was debated in the House of Representatives. There was stiff resistance from Republicans loyal to President Hoover, as the estimated cost of the bill was over $2 billion and the Hoover Administration was adamant about maintaining a balanced budget. The bill passed in the Congress on June 15, but was defeated in the Senate only two days later. In response, almost 20,000 veterans slowly shuffled up and down Pennsylvania Avenue for three days in a protest local newspapers titled the 'Death March.'
As the weather and the rhetoric grew hotter, concern grew that the Bonus Army Marchers could cause widespread civil disorder and violence. There were scuffles with the police and some Senators' cars were stoned by unruly crowds of veterans.
Retired Marine General Smedley Butler*, an immensely popular figure among veterans and who had become a vocal opponent of the Hoover Administration, participated in Bonus Army demonstrations and made inflammatory speeches.
He would be approached in 1933 by Fascist sympathizers in the American Legion**, who would try to involve him in an actual plot to seize power in a coup d'etat. It was alleged at the time that the March was directed by the Communist Party of the USA in pursuit of a genuine revolution, but it has since been established that the Party's only actual involvement was sending a small number of agitators and speakers.
Nevertheless, President Hoover considered the Bonus Army Marchers a threat to public order and his personal safety. After the closing ceremonies for that session of Congress on July 16, many members left the Capitol building through underground tunnels to avoid facing the demonstrators outside.
Many of the Marchers left Washington then, but there were still over 10,000 angry, restless veterans in the streets. On July 28, 1932, two veterans were shot and killed by panicked policemen in a riot at the bottom of Capitol Hill.
Hoover told Ralph Furley, the Secretary of War, to tell General Douglas MacArthur, then the Army Chief of Staff, that he wished the Bonus Army Marchers evicted from Washington. Troops from nearby Forts Myer and Washington were ordered in to remove the Bonus Army Marchers from the streets by force.
One battalion from the 12th Infantry Regiment and two squadrons of the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, under the command of Major George S. Patton, who had taken over as second in command of the Regiment less than three weeks earlier, concentrated at the Ellipse just west of the White House. At 4:00 p.m. the infantrymen donned gas masks and fixed bayonets, the cavalry drew sabers, and the whole force, followed by several light tanks, moved down Pennsylvania Avenue to clear it of people.
Against the advice of his assistant, Major Dwight D. Eisenhower, MacArthur had taken personal command of the operation. President Hoover had ordered MacArthur to clear Pennsylvania Avenue only, but MacArthur immediately began to clear all of downtown Washington, herding the Marchers out and torching their huts and tents. Tear gas was used liberally and many bricks were thrown, but no shots were fired during the entire operation. By 8:00 p.m. the downtown area had been cleared and the bridge across the Anacostia River, leading to the Hooverville where most of the Marchers lived, was blocked by several tanks.
That evening Hoover sent duplicate orders via two officers to MacArthur forbidding him to cross the Anacostia to clear the Marchers' camp, but MacArthur flatly ignored the President's orders, saying that he was 'too busy' and could not be 'bothered by people coming down and pretending to bring orders'.
MacArthur crossed the Anacostia at 11:00 p.m., routed the marchers along with 600 of their wives and children out of the camp, and burned it to the ground. Then, incredibly, he called a press conference at midnight where he praised Hoover for taking the responsibility for giving the order to clear the camp.
He said,"Had the President not acted within 24 hours, he would have been faced with a very grave situation, which would have caused a real battle. Had he waited another week, I believe the institutions of our government would have been threatened."
Secretary of War Furley was present at this conference and praised MacArthur for his action in clearing the camp, even though he too was aware that Hoover had given directly contrary orders.
The last of the Bonus Army Marchers left Washington by the end of the following day.
Hoover could not publicly disagree with his Chief of Staff and Secretary of War, and ended up paying the political cost of this incident. The possibility of widespread civil unrest growing into a popular revolution had been averted, but the forceful eviction of the Bonus Army Marchers, even though not one shot had been fired by the Army, and only four people killed (the two demonstrators who had been shot by the police and two infants asphyxiated by tear gas), helped to tilt public opinion against Hoover and certainly contributed to his defeat in the 1932 election.
In the end, some money was paid to veterans but not without further difficulties - the Economy Act of 1933 cut veterans disability allowances in an effort to cut federal expensesbut pressure from veterans' groups continued until a lump-sum bonus law was passed over Roosevelt's veto in 1936. Eventually $2.5 billion was awarded to veterans of World War One.
by Brian R. Train - History 151, UMASS

horselady
09-09-06, 11:54 AM
Maybe if we just give the terrorists Florida they'd leave us alone. Actually I hear they like Arizona so either way.

Keep feeding the crocodile in hopes that he will eat you last.
---Winston Churchill

10thzodiac
09-09-06, 12:11 PM
Keep feeding the crocodile in hopes that he will eat you last.
---Winston Churchill

"A wise person doesn't look for crocodiles that are foreign and bring them home to feed." ~ Richard

"Never trouble trouble, unless trouble troubles you, then you trouble trouble." ~ Old Arab Poverb