View Full Version : Our values - and theirs
thedrifter
08-24-06, 06:34 PM
Our values - and theirs <br />
<br />
US soldiers are dying for freedom in Iraq, no less than those who raised the flag at Iwo Jima <br />
<br />
Harold Evans <br />
Friday August 25, 2006 <br />
The Guardian <br />
<br />
It took Joe...
Ladderwell
08-24-06, 10:57 PM
Our beloved troops are dying for freedom. Let us all work to let them live for for the same. Support our troops best by giving them competent government leaders. As citizens, we failed to do so in 2000, and 2004. Their path of incompetendy is bad news. Time for a new path, with new leaders.
See you at the polls!
God bless America (PLEASE!)
*
Ladderwell
SF
jinelson
08-24-06, 11:43 PM
Right again Ladderwell lets start with redeploying John Mecca Murtha as the good people of Pennsylvania are in desparate need of competent leadership!
:D
Ladderwell
08-24-06, 11:53 PM
The Spanish Inquisition killed off or drove out the intelligencia (sic), and business leaders, and anyone worth their salt. As a result, they went into a decline that they still have not recovered from. That lesson is applicable here. Forget Murtha, focus on the bigger problem and the tough solutions needed to put the Islamic genie back into the bottle that our cowboy government let out.
Respectfully,
Ladderwell
SF
outlaw3179
08-25-06, 12:08 AM
Your right ladderwell we should pull out, turn our backs cover our heads and just pray that everything gets better. The war on terror has no borders ..........unfortunatly we didnt start it .....but we have to have the determination to follow through with it. This will not be easy and it will take years . I would rather have president who understands this and will find the enemy , locate, and close with. I dont think any of your heroes like Murtha or Kerry have the testicular fortitude necessary.
Your right ladderwell we should pull out, turn our backs cover our heads and just pray that everything gets better. The war on terror has no borders ..........unfortunatly we didnt start it .....but we have to have the determination to follow through with it. This will not be easy and it will take years . I would rather have president who understands this and will find the enemy , locate, and close with. I dont think any of your heroes like Murtha or Kerry have the testicular fortitude necessary.
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. I assume that's what you meant by "we didn't start it".
Saddam wasn't even a concern to our NATO ally Turkey. So why the hell did you let the neocons get you all scared of the paper tiger?
Iraq isn't ours to win or lose now. It's up to the Iraqis to forge their own path now.
outlaw3179
08-25-06, 10:26 AM
Iraq is a part of the war on terror. Do you think its just Iraqis were fighting or other people from other countries also. Iraq is a training ground for terrorist to try new tactics and refine existing ones. Please dont be "that" guy believes that by leaving Iraq everything will get all better and everyone that hates us will leave us alone to just be a peaceful nation. I know your getting most of your information from the New York Post, and Murtha, and Kerry , but please please I just advise you ...dont believe everything you read.
Iraq is a part of the war on terror. Do you think its just Iraqis were fighting or other people from other countries also. Iraq is a training ground for terrorist to try new tactics and refine existing ones. Please dont be "that" guy believes that by leaving Iraq everything will get all better and everyone that hates us will leave us alone to just be a peaceful nation. I know your getting most of your information from the New York Post, and Murtha, and Kerry , but please please I just advise you ...dont believe everything you read.
Who turned it into a terrorist training ground?
answer- George W. Bush
Thank you, Dubya. Mission accomplished.
Ladderwell
08-25-06, 08:50 PM
Your right ladderwell we should pull out, turn our backs cover our heads and just pray that everything gets better. The war on terror has no borders ..........unfortunatly we didnt start it .....but we have to have the determination to follow through with it. This will not be easy and it will take years . I would rather have president who understands this and will find the enemy , locate, and close with. I dont think any of your heroes like Murtha or Kerry have the testicular fortitude necessary.
Outlaw3179,
There should be an all out war on Terror. Our knuckleheaded political leaders invaded Iraq when we should have been focused on Terrorism. Iraq had ZERO to do with Terrorism, until our dumb president said "Hyuk, I'll buy that for a dollar," followed Cheney and Rumsfield's poor lead. We elected a leader who wasn't able to comprehend the consequences of his actions, and not just in Iraq. Kerry, Murtha, Gore, Hillary, Dopey Dilldock, all could have done better, and made fewer horrifically costly mistakes.
The war on Terror needs to be fought at winning the hearts and minds of Muslims. Our country's actions has radicallized all of the fundamentalists, all of the "near fundamentalist" Muslims, and a good percentage of the moderate Muslims. Islam represents 1/4 of the global population. We cannot have cowboy diplomacy, and the Republican leadership in this country has acted out of stupidity and greed, and condemned us to 300 years of putting the genie back in the bottle. That is the cycle of things that have occurred over the past 1350 years in the Mideast.
This war will be harder, longer, and more costly because of the Republican leadership over the past six, and next two, years.
Say your prayers, and be prepared to make a hard choice when it comes time to vote.
Respectfully,
Ladderwell
SF
Ladderwell
08-25-06, 08:50 PM
Your right ladderwell we should pull out, turn our backs cover our heads and just pray that everything gets better. The war on terror has no borders ..........unfortunatly we didnt start it .....but we have to have the determination to follow through with it. This will not be easy and it will take years . I would rather have president who understands this and will find the enemy , locate, and close with. I dont think any of your heroes like Murtha or Kerry have the testicular fortitude necessary.
Outlaw3179,
There should be an all out war on Terror. Our knuckleheaded political leaders invaded Iraq when we should have been focused on Terrorism. Iraq had ZERO to do with Terrorism, until our dumb president said "Hyuk, I'll buy that for a dollar," followed Cheney and Rumsfield's poor lead. We elected a leader who wasn't able to comprehend the consequences of his actions, and not just in Iraq. Kerry, Murtha, Gore, Hillary, Dopey Dilldock, all could have done better, and made fewer horrifically costly mistakes.
The war on Terror needs to be fought at winning the hearts and minds of Muslims. Our country's actions has radicallized all of the fundamentalists, all of the "near fundamentalist" Muslims, and a good percentage of the moderate Muslims. Islam represents 1/4 of the global population. We cannot have cowboy diplomacy, and the Republican leadership in this country has acted out of stupidity and greed, and condemned us to 300 years of putting the genie back in the bottle. That is the cycle of things that have occurred over the past 1350 years in the Mideast.
This war will be harder, longer, and more costly because of the Republican leadership over the past six, and next two, years.
Say your prayers, and be prepared to make a hard choice when it comes time to vote.
Respectfully,
Ladderwell
SF
Ladderwell
08-25-06, 09:19 PM
Iraq is a part of the war on terror. Do you think its just Iraqis were fighting or other people from other countries also. Iraq is a training ground for terrorist to try new tactics and refine existing ones. Please dont be "that" guy believes that by leaving Iraq everything will get all better and everyone that hates us will leave us alone to just be a peaceful nation. I know your getting most of your information from the New York Post, and Murtha, and Kerry , but please please I just advise you ...dont believe everything you read.
Outlaw3179,
The Bush administration's folly caused Iraq to become the debaucle it is. Because of that, we cannot just pull out and leave the mess we stupidly created. However, because of our country's actions, there is INCREASING HATE towards the US, squandering 230 years of Principle in "The American Way." The only way we can stop the building of global hate towards us is to change the faces of the leaders we show the world. Our next president and congress, if Republican, will only give us four more years of rising hate that we and our children, and our childrens' children will need to face.
Getting out of Iraq will not be pretty, and more than likely not abrupt, but people like Murtha are pointing the way out. Regardless of what we do, once we leave, the country will fall back to their old ways, Shiites vs. Sunnis, with the Sufis on the side. What will our investment have gained?
Respectfully,
Ladderwell
SF
greensideout
08-25-06, 10:01 PM
The Spanish Inquisition killed off or drove out the intelligencia (sic), and business leaders, and anyone worth their salt. As a result, they went into a decline that they still have not recovered from. That lesson is applicable here. Forget Murtha, focus on the bigger problem and the tough solutions needed to put the Islamic genie back into the bottle that our cowboy government let out.
Respectfully,
Ladderwell
SF
"Islamic genie back into the bottle that our cowboy government let out".
Help me out here Ladderwell, when did this occur? Was it before 9-11 or sometime afterward? I suspect that you know that the lid has never been on the bottle but instead the bottle is rubbed by those that chose to enter their land.
Hummm, we have been in their land for a long time. What have the other administrations done about that? Nothing of course because we need the oil. Now you call for change? My question for you is this. What part of history makes you think that any change would occur?
Ladderwell
08-25-06, 10:24 PM
"Islamic genie back into the bottle that our cowboy government let out".
Help me out here Ladderwell, when did this occur? Was it before 9-11 or sometime afterward? I suspect that you know that the lid has never been on the bottle but instead the bottle is rubbed by those that chose to enter their land.
Hummm, we have been in their land for a long time. What have the other administrations done about that? Nothing of course because we need the oil. Now you call for change? My question for you is this. What part of history makes you think that any change would occur?
Greensideout,
The Genie of Islamic Fundamentalism has always existed. From the beginning of Islam, when it was founded and spread by the sword, the fanatics have always been present. Islam has self-policed itself by creating a Moderate practice of Islam, one that has allowed Islam to spread with ideas, and not only relying on the sword
The point is that over the past 1350 years, the Fundamentalists have broken free of the control (certainly not 100% control) only during times of cataclysm, such as an invasion. The US went in alone, and not with the consent or cooperation of either moderate Muslims, or the UN (representing a part of the world that has had more history and hence a better understanding of Islam). As a result, the US's "whacking of the hornets' nest" without protective gear (allies or support) was a horrific mistake, especially when the reasons given for going in were all 100% proven to be false.
The US's history of a presence in the Mideast has never exploded such as today because of the diplomatic approach taken by earlier administrations. However, the US has nevertheless made earlier mistakes, some serious and some not so serious. None of the earlier mistakes have ever been of the magnitude of the Bush, JR administration. None.
The US had the support of ALL moderate Muslims, and the radicals were looking over their shoulders when the world turned against them post 9/11. When we invade Iraq, our standing in the War on Terror did a 180. Our goodwill was squandered for NO REASON other than Cheney and Rumsfield's unfinished goals of Gulf War I. We were warned by Egypt's Mubarak that we would "create 10,000 Osama Bin Ladens" if we were to invade as we did. Nevertheless, we did anyway, and the result is our blood and beaucoup civilian's blood running ankle deep in the streets, and no hope of staunching it until the Republican party is taken out as the controlling force of our government.
Even if the Republicans were to "get religion," and come up with the very best solution to implement in turning things around, the effort would fail. Any and all credibility the US has ever had has been so horrifically lost or damaged, that it would never get off the ground. The world will at least give us an ear, or a fresh start, once we give ourselves a "fresh government."
Respectfully,
Ladderwell
SF
Ladderwell
08-25-06, 10:24 PM
"Islamic genie back into the bottle that our cowboy government let out".
Help me out here Ladderwell, when did this occur? Was it before 9-11 or sometime afterward? I suspect that you know that the lid has never been on the bottle but instead the bottle is rubbed by those that chose to enter their land.
Hummm, we have been in their land for a long time. What have the other administrations done about that? Nothing of course because we need the oil. Now you call for change? My question for you is this. What part of history makes you think that any change would occur?
Greensideout,
The Genie of Islamic Fundamentalism has always existed. From the beginning of Islam, when it was founded and spread by the sword, the fanatics have always been present. Islam has self-policed itself by creating a Moderate practice of Islam, one that has allowed Islam to spread with ideas, and not only relying on the sword
The point is that over the past 1350 years, the Fundamentalists have broken free of the control (certainly not 100% control) only during times of cataclysm, such as an invasion. The US went in alone, and not with the consent or cooperation of either moderate Muslims, or the UN (representing a part of the world that has had more history and hence a better understanding of Islam). As a result, the US's "whacking of the hornets' nest" without protective gear (allies or support) was a horrific mistake, especially when the reasons given for going in were all 100% proven to be false.
The US's history of a presence in the Mideast has never exploded such as today because of the diplomatic approach taken by earlier administrations. However, the US has nevertheless made earlier mistakes, some serious and some not so serious. None of the earlier mistakes have ever been of the magnitude of the Bush, JR administration. None.
The US had the support of ALL moderate Muslims, and the radicals were looking over their shoulders when the world turned against them post 9/11. When we invade Iraq, our standing in the War on Terror did a 180. Our goodwill was squandered for NO REASON other than Cheney and Rumsfield's unfinished goals of Gulf War I. We were warned by Egypt's Mubarak that we would "create 10,000 Osama Bin Ladens" if we were to invade as we did. Nevertheless, we did anyway, and the result is our blood and beaucoup civilian's blood running ankle deep in the streets, and no hope of staunching it until the Republican party is taken out as the controlling force of our government.
Even if the Republicans were to "get religion," and come up with the very best solution to implement in turning things around, the effort would fail. Any and all credibility the US has ever had has been so horrifically lost or damaged, that it would never get off the ground. The world will at least give us an ear, or a fresh start, once we give ourselves a "fresh government."
Respectfully,
Ladderwell
SF
greensideout
08-25-06, 10:41 PM
"Even if the Republicans were to "get religion".---Come on!---LOL---Didn't you read Ann Coulter's latest Book?
A "fresh government" is a good idea perhaps. That means however that it would be neither Republican or Democrat---what would you suggest?
003XXMarineDAD
08-25-06, 11:10 PM
Ladderwell with all respect I could not go with the DEFEATOCRATS. They have no plan other then CUT & RUN. They stilll think this is 9-10 and we can not be hurt. When they pull thier heads out they had better hope that the Terroeists are not close with their knifes.
greensideout
08-25-06, 11:36 PM
Greensideout,
Please accept my apologies for not knowing who Ann Coulter is.
I was using "get religion" in terms of the Republicans seeing the folly of their ways, and do a 180. With the religious Right having done so much to get the Republicans into power (not that their hearts weren't in the right place, it was their heads that didn't see the consequences coming), I can see and chuckle with you.
I agree with you that politically, we need to evolve. Regardless of where we will be in a century or three (which will probably then be in a "balkanized" country represented by many stark and diverse special interests of many flavors, who will require coalition governments like Italy and Israel, in order to get anything done)...regardless of then, we need to begin a turnaround now, and that means that we go with the best viable option on the table, and for now, that is the Democrats.
*
Respectfully,
Ladderwell :=)
SF
I'm trying to get this right---on the one hand you say that we need to "evolve" politically and on the other hand you say that we need to go back to the Democrats, ie. the days of Jimmy Carter and Slick Willy who both hid in the corner and cowarded at the threat of Islam. I'm not sure that your assessment of "the best viable option" is correct.
jinelson
08-26-06, 12:06 AM
GSO Im sure he will have a good answer to your question and he will have it as soon as he gets it from DNC or the democratic undergrounds bilge writers. I just wish he could answer up to a question all by himself!
;)
iamcloudlander
08-26-06, 12:46 AM
ooooooh rah jinelson I gave up on this guy he must be getting his replies from the book of ignorance for democrats but at least he has an ally here eddief.
Ladderwell with all respect I could not go with the DEFEATOCRATS. They have no plan other then CUT & RUN. They stilll think this is 9-10 and we can not be hurt. When they pull thier heads out they had better hope that the Terroeists are not close with their knifes.
What's the Republican plan? Keep our troops there while civil war breaks out?
Un****ing believable.
003XXMarineDAD
08-26-06, 05:46 PM
The only plan I have heard from the Dimocrats that are talking is Cut & Run.
The speeches all are the same at the end , CUT & RUN.
The President said at one time of a axis of evil, it upset the left and the so call world of the UN. The Useless Nations and the left that loves themselves more then the country have became the ........... THE AXIS OF THE IRRATIONAL AND USELESS.
It moves me to see the Axis here in:
:sick:
I draw my conclusions and replies from the facts, not from anyone's published or professed political platforms. Am just trying to rely on rational thought.
What's the Republican plan? Keep our troops there while civil war breaks out?
Un****ing believable.
This may sound wrong , but the things I hear from My son and others on the ground over there is far from what the Axis of the Irrational are putting on in here.
It is a pleasure to see the Irrational have a voice in here to just keep the rest of us entertained.
:D
greensideout
08-26-06, 09:26 PM
Carter and Clinton's actions kept the relative peace. Sure we suffered casualties, but not of a magnitude any where near the results of the actions by Bush, JR.
*
Respectfully,
Ladderwell
SF
Quote-"Sure we suffered casualties".
Yes we did, as the democrats lack of action against Islamic terrorism for so long may well have fueled the event that we know as 9-11. If so, the magnitude of the loss of civilian life is heavy for the democratic "peace plan". I wonder if they might have some NEW plan that provides greater safety for America?