An answer to my email to peace protesters

[wrbones]

I thought I'd let some of you folks have a chance at this one. I have his email addy.

If in fact, he is currently active duty and not ROTC as I suspect, isn't he doing something wrong by being involved with such activities while on active duty?

My original email can be read on NAMGrunt's thread "A Call to Arms"





Mr. Bonesteel,
Being in the military currently I am disturbed by your email to the peace
group. True it is their very right to protest, of which you do adequately
point out, but it is more than that. You equating a peace protester
organizing at a veterans memorial to Martin Luther King Jr. graveside is
absurd. Perhaps, this is not the right wording, but I find it comforting. As
an infantry soldier I find that there would be no better place to have
civilians advocate peace then under the very shadow of those men who have made
the ultimate sacrifice to ensure that very freedom.
I once heard a former soldier tell a civilian who was complaining about
cafeteria food at New Mexico State University that a soldier in Korea eats
dirt. There is freezing temperatures and no comfort. When the student went
through such hardships then only then could they complain. Being from the
same situation my response was actually I put myself in those conditiions so
that the student and anyone else could make those very complaints.
I do advocate that protesters should direct their troubles with the
administration and their policies, not the individual soldier. While a
standing military does protect our very freedom we enjoy, as Kant said,"there
can never be perpeptual peace with such a standing Army." Remember who you
did, and others still do, service for.
To your last comment, "Sadly, peace is no longer an option. This is the
choice of those who have named us enemy. Peace protests in this environment
are illogical and irrational, and in my own opinion, treasonous." I must say
that peace is always an option. It is treasonous, in my opinion, to send
children into war without fully exploring other options. I will say that
sometimes violence and war in a necessary evil in this day an age. However,
at all costs war must try to be avoided and human life preserved. It is your,
and this adminstration's, moral obligation to protect not only American, but
human life. Where is the evidence President Bush speaks of? Without clear
overwhelming evidence the American public cannot simply condone the unchecked
aggression of the American military. This is exactly what a preemptive
strike,
in my opinion, would be.
I may not agree with your opinion, but I will give my life for you express
in any way. This is the most important freedom America can enjoy I believe.
By asking you not to protest under the shadow of fallen soldiers, which I
believe is the appropriate place, would make us more like the rogue states we
currently seek to destroy.

[wrbones]

.
To those who organize 'Peace Rally's'

There is a movement that is slowly but steadily growing among veterans. It is a grass roots movement. A few Marines here, a couple of soldiers there, several sailors somewhere else, two or three airmen at a bar.

It is a movement of frustration born of failed policies and horrible mistreatment by both our government and civilians during and after wars and conflicts past. It is a movement whose heart and soul cries out, with determination, "This shall not happen to another veteran again."

It is a formless movement at this time, and it is essentially leaderless. But it will grow. It cannot be otherwise. Many civilians do not know what sacrifices have been made for them. They cannot comprehend the pain, the horror, the unbelievable long hours and constant wear and tear on bodies, families, friendships, and even sacrificed careers that have been made by these people. These Veterans. They cannot begin to understand the isolation most feel after years of honourable and good service only to return to a nation and home wherein they are incomprehensibly spit upon, lied to, lied about, ignored, or threatened, abused and shouted down by those whom they gave so much to protect. They only want to go back to work, to live in peace and freedom once again as any other American citizen justly demands and expects.

In time, wherever there are peace protesters, there will be a Veteran offering another point of view. Our freedoms do not come cheap. The freedoms of others do not come cheap. Let there be peace. We, as veterans will gladly welcome it. Let there be no man or woman ready to defend freedom, there will be no freedom. Peace will thence disappear.

Any who will not support the men and women of our armed forces in their time of need neither deserve, nor apparently value, the freedom that has allowed them to abuse the Veterans who served, fought and died to ensure freedom and liberty for all of us. Protest. It is your right. Protest in front of 'city hall'. Protest in the town square. Do not bring a peace protest to a monument that was built to honour a Veteran. You have defiled the Veterans and the monument raised to honour them. This is a slap in the face to all Veterans. It is the equivalent of going to a graveyard to protest lethal injection. It is like going to a maternity ward to protest abortion. It is like going to Martin Luther King's grave site to protest equal rights. It is a senseless, vile and inappropriate use of freedom. It is irresponsible, reprehensible, and shows your ignorance of what has been given for you. It is, quite frankly, childishly irresponsible to do so.
Protest any war. You have the right to do so. But do not be surprised when you see a Veteran opposite you who watches and waits.

Be responsible in what you do. Your protests have a negative impact on the morale of many who serve. When they should be otherwise concerned with the life and death job at hand, they might be thinking of you...and wondering why you do not consider what they have done honourable or important. In the past so called peace protests have physically, mentally and emotionally harmed Veterans. If the people of the United States do not support the Marine, the Sailor, the Soldier, the Airman or even the Coastie, in the times that they need you most...in time, there may not be a man or a woman to protect you when it counts. The future of any army, at any time, has depended solely upon the treatment of it's veterans after a war or conflict. I'm sorry to say that our world is not perfect nor safe. Our nation's armed forces are a necessity of life.

Several enemies have declared war upon us from several places and at several times over the last twenty years. Many of them have called it 'Jihad'. This is an eternal feud to those who have declared it. They will not stop until we are dead as individuals and as a nation. Yet another enemy has ignored sanctions and given it's own people over to terror, starvation and death by it's own chemical weaponry in order to live off the 'fat of the land‘. This government has attacked our men and women in uniform on an almost daily basis since 1991, ignoring peace protocols imposed by the UN and the rest of the world. Another enemy has killed several thousand men, women and children on our on lands, in our own nation. We are at war already. Other nations and organizations have declared war against us and openly attacked us. No other nation is able, even if willing, to defend us. We must defend ourselves.

Sadly, peace is no longer an option. This is the choice of those who have named us enemy. Peace protests in this environment are illogical and irrational, and in my own opinion, treasonous.


signed

Warren Bonesteel
USMC 1976-1983


.

[Barndog]

I'm still tryin to figure out the point here. Hell, I got a degree in philosophy, and still aint figured it out.

Logic, in order to be utilized in a valid argument, has to have 2 critical components -

1) Soundness in fact......... and

2) Validity of the facts presented.

Neither are presented in my opinion.

[Barndog]

P.S.

Bones, of course has HIS sh!t together.

[NamGrunt68]

Originally posted by wrbones
I thought I'd let some of you folks have a chance at this one. I have his email addy.

If in fact, he is currently active duty and not ROTC as I suspect, isn't he doing something wrong by being involved with such activities while on active duty?

My original email can be read on NAMGrunt's thread "A Call to Arms"





Mr. Bonesteel,
Being in the military currently I am disturbed by your email to the peace
group. True it is their very right to protest, of which you do adequately
point out, but it is more than that. You equating a peace protester
organizing at a veterans memorial to Martin Luther King Jr. graveside is
absurd. Perhaps, this is not the right wording, but I find it comforting. As
an infantry soldier I find that there would be no better place to have
civilians advocate peace then under the very shadow of those men who have made
the ultimate sacrifice to ensure that very freedom.
I once heard a former soldier tell a civilian who was complaining about
cafeteria food at New Mexico State University that a soldier in Korea eats
dirt. There is freezing temperatures and no comfort. When the student went
through such hardships then only then could they complain. Being from the
same situation my response was actually I put myself in those conditiions so
that the student and anyone else could make those very complaints.
I do advocate that protesters should direct their troubles with the
administration and their policies, not the individual soldier. While a
standing military does protect our very freedom we enjoy, as Kant said,"there
can never be perpeptual peace with such a standing Army." Remember who you
did, and others still do, service for.
To your last comment, "Sadly, peace is no longer an option. This is the
choice of those who have named us enemy. Peace protests in this environment
are illogical and irrational, and in my own opinion, treasonous." I must say
that peace is always an option. It is treasonous, in my opinion, to send
children into war without fully exploring other options. I will say that
sometimes violence and war in a necessary evil in this day an age. However,
at all costs war must try to be avoided and human life preserved. It is your,
and this adminstration's, moral obligation to protect not only American, but
human life. Where is the evidence President Bush speaks of? Without clear
overwhelming evidence the American public cannot simply condone the unchecked
aggression of the American military. This is exactly what a preemptive
strike,
in my opinion, would be.
I may not agree with your opinion, but I will give my life for you express
in any way. This is the most important freedom America can enjoy I believe.
By asking you not to protest under the shadow of fallen soldiers, which I
believe is the appropriate place, would make us more like the rogue states we
currently seek to destroy.

Bones, I wish I could be more eloquent with my post than this, but the only thing I can think off to say without giving it a lot of thought, is that there ain't no way in hell, I'd share a fightin hole with this lame azz mofo !!! Phuck him !!! My opinion is that he if trying to cover up gettin an azz chewin back from you, by taking the soft approach on Liberties.....This might **** a whole lot of people in here off...but in the last couple of months I bet I have seen at least a hundred different Marines start out with their posts by stating...." I don't share the same view with them, but I will defend their right to say it with my Life"......WELL PHUCK THAT !! IF it is a Constitutional right for a bunch of these azzholes to march on MY Capitol, MY sacred bro's ground with this anti war protest which demoralizes troops, and calls the CIC the evil axis of the world, then in my opine, The Constitution of the United States needs to be tweeked !!! I'm sick and tired of reading a bunch of left winged liberal Politically Correct Marines talking about defending the rights of these commie bast@ards !!!
I wouldn't defend a damn one of em....matter of fact I think the sumb!tches ought to be exported to Iraq or where the hell they want to go....just get them out of American.........Rant over......
Thanks for posting that !!! My evening just took a turn !! Now I have a reason to have a few !!! Semper Fi Bones......

[wrbones]

I can't believe the guy is in the military and at the same time a part of any peace organisation! Ain't he violatin the UCMJ somewhere? Hell, I could've made his life a living misery in my outfit even if the UCMJ doesn't cover this!

[NamGrunt68]

Originally posted by wrbones
I can't believe the guy is in the military and at the same time a part of any peace organisation! Ain't he violatin the UCMJ somewhere? Hell, I could've made his life a living misery in my outfit even if the UCMJ doesn't cover this!

I'm sad to report to you that the war protestors will have several active duty military in their group from what I've been told. And yes.....some Marines too......ain't no sh!t bro...of course they won't be in uniform and they are smart enough to stay away from any trouble......thats one of the reasons I have said from the git go that the banner that Roger has scrolling under all of his posts is a bunch of "bullsh!t"....it used to be true, but from alot of what I've seen, it ain't no more........oh hell, here comes the incoming......thats ok....I've been thru it before........

[firstsgtmike]

"I don't share the same view with them, but I will defend their right to say it with my Life"

That's not MY motto.

Mine is; " I don't share the same view with them, but I will defend their right to say it with THEIR lives. As long as they stay out of mine."

Semper Fi

[Barndog]

FVCKIN A Top!


Semper FI

[Phantom Blooper]

Sounds like a punk who wants to get out on grounds of being a F*****g CO to me . Seems like my oath had to do with enemies foreign and domestic. Throw him out then kick his Dear Civilian ass!! Semper-fi!! Chuck Hall

[wrbones]

Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 7:44 AM
Subject: peace rally


> Mr Bonesteel,
> 'You have never ever done anything wrong and until
> you get this and start forgiving yourself, nothing
> will change and you will never heal'.
>
> The Marine Corp obviously did a really good job brain
> washing you -or you are so ashamed of what you did in
> Nam that you have to cover it with more war.
>
> War is not nor will it ever be a solution..I too was
> in Viet Nam and I have absolutely no pride for having
> been there in that capacity..it was and will be a
> beautiful country...when they have washed all the
> hatred, chemical pollution and have outgrown the
> devastation we reeked upon them. ..For what?
>
> Our government had at no time, the desire to win
> that war...its only design was to make money off of
> the cannon fodder we were.., Sgt you express the
> normal activity of post traumatic stress disorder just
> like the rest of us...however, screaming 'kill the
> bastards' will not cure you or the present
> situation...please for the sake of your loved ones,
> get some help. The Veterans Administration is far more
> lenient now and are taking a completely different view
> of us that "served" in Viet Nam and the Gulf War.
>
> I am continually appalled by the number of Viet Nam
> veterans who want to go finish the job...anywhere.
> There is no job. We were used. (If there is something
> to be finished it is in Washington D.C. and even that
> will not fulfill the feeling of being used that we
> carry inside)...The soldiers going to this conflict
> with Iraq are being used...there is one agenda. It is
> Corporate America (which includes that great
> corporation, the District of Columbia)...they make the
> money and we take the bullet....for what?
>
> You have never ever done anything wrong and until
> you get this and start forgiving yourself, nothing
> will change and you will never heal.
>
> As hard as it may feel to do so, go in peace...become
> a "real" christian, put the weapon down...there are no
> war memorials worth keeping....there is not nor is
> there to be, war in heaven..Jesus did not say,"pick up
> your weapon and go east or anywhere, and kill people
> or anyone. He said,"love your neighbor"...why is that
> so hard to understand? The entire world is our
> neighbor...more so everyday.
>
> In Truth, Simplicity and Love
>


my response follows:



You may want to read my original email once more. Your response indicates
that you have not read it. My signiture and the business card enclosed
would tell you that I am not a VietNam Veteran for starters. Most of your
message to me is baseless after that is acknowledged and additionally never
addresses any point that I made in my email to you.

As for Christianity. When I see one church under Christ and Him crucified,
then I will once again darken the doors of a building claiming his name. 1
John chapter 3 in particular verses 14-18; John 17 His prayer that we all be
one as he and God are one; Acts 22 32-47 wherein the example was set before
us as well as in Acts chapter 4:32-37. These bits of scripture are listed
only as a beginning. When the church as individuals and as a whole lack
power in the spirit, we have done something wrong. There should not be
diferent churches invoking different doctrines concerning God or Christ
within one village, let alone one city , nation or world.

I will not address the atrocities which have been perpetrated in the name of
God. Even the Nazis invoked God in their convocations wherein they sought to
rule the world.

All the wars of man have been over resources. This war that we face was not
our doing. Re-read my first message to you if you would please.

Apparently you have not been treated at a VMAC recently, nor have you
attempted to file for benefits promised you under the laws of this nation. I
am far from agreeing with anything that any administration does or does not
do. One thing I cannot agree with is the division that is presented by folks
like you before an armed and dangerous enemy of our nation that has already
attacked us repeatedly.

One more thing for your consideration. The Marine Corps has never
brain-washed people. We are the most highly trained armed force that has
ever existed. We are trained to do our job, and we do it very well indeed,
thank you.

One thing you might consider. Instead of dividing the nation with the
protests that you espouse, perhaps you might consider changing the system
that has given you and yours all that you have. Including the right to
protest openly in public, thus providing our avowed enemies the fodder they
need for their own propaganda machines. Protests are notoriously ineffective
in achieving real substantive changes. Otherwise, war would be no more. Were
there not protests in our own nation before the Revolutionary War? Weere
there not protests before and during the Civil War? Were there not protests
before WWI? Were there not protests before WWII? Were there not protests
during VietNam? Their greatest effect was to cause weak leaders to leave the
field of a war we had won in VietNam. Whatever our reason for having been
there. Peace protests' only effect has been to divide a nation and cause
dissension that leads to defeat and shame for all involved. Perhaps you
might consider looking into other venues for your efforts?

In addition, a serviceman or woman suffering from untreated PTSD would have
been far less reasonable then I have been in response to your email.

signed



Warren R. Bonesteel
Sgt USMC 1976-1983

[wrbones]

Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 4:28 PM
Subject: Question


Mr War Bones,

If what you say is true, "Many civilians do not know what sacrifices have been made for them. They cannot comprehend the pain, the horror, the unbelievable long hours and constant wear and tear on bodies, families, friendships, and even sacrificed careers that have been made by these people. These Veterans. They cannot begin to understand the isolation most feel after years of honorable and good service only to return to a nation and home wherein they are incomprehensively spit upon, lied to, lied about, ignored, or threatened, abused and shouted down by those whom they gave so much to protect. They only want to go back to work, to live in peace and freedom once again as any other American citizen justly demands and expects."

Why do you want more people to fight a war and to repeat the nightmare of war???????????

I would think you would be the first in line to say no more war.

AZ




my response:



My question to you is."How many Americans must die on their own soil before we defend ourselves?"

In addition to WTC and Pennsyvania, American embassies and barracks are deemed our soil by the world legal system.

On a personal level if a man insults me, I will probably let him wlak away. If a man slaps me, I might let him walk away. If a man intentionally hurts me or my family, I cannot, before God allow him to walk away. He will most certainly harm others.

I notice that you have neglected to address other points I brought up in my email.

I give you credit. Your note to me has made more sense than others I have recieved in response thus far. I am beginning to wonder if your position can be defended rationally and logically.

The nightmare of war has been brought to us. We have let the other man insult us, slap us and harm others ( his own people and other nations ) for more than twenty years. Would you have other innocents die at the rate of tens of thousands, or would you have those trained to fight defend you, your family and other innocents in every nation under our sun?

War is not something that any combat Veteran that I know would wish upon anyone. But they will not stand by and let another despot purposely destroy innocent men, women, and children. Americans have been killed by such men for decades with little or no response. War has been brought to us. Do we defend ourselves? or do we die?

Were these things not the case, you are right. I would be the first to say "What the hell are we doing?" These things are true, however. We have been repeatedly attacked over decades. Men from our military forces have been killed by these men over two decades with little or no response. Tens of thousands of Innocent men women and children have been killed over two decades with little or no response.

There is too much evidence to suggest that such men are not going to stop killing innocent people in a purposeful fashion for decades to come. What would you have us do? Stand down and let them continue to do so?

If you have a reasonable suggestion that might work after several decades and thousands of man-years of effort by the best minds that man can bring to bear on the issue, then I am quite willing to listen.




Warren R. Bonesteel
Sgt USMC 1976-1983

My question is: How'd this feller know that some of you folks called me 'WarBones'? LOL. Why would anyone call me that? I'm a peaceable type of feller!

[wrbones]

>Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 12:16 AM
>Subject: Re:Peace Rallys, western asia and the middle east
>
>
>> I respect and support teh men and women in the military and my fellow
>vets! It is my government that scares the hell out of me! We have lost all
>our rights since bush went into office and that is why there are warriors
>for peace and to rectify the situation. What I can say is....I do not want
>any lives wasted for a barrel of oil.
>> respectfully,
>> Funke
>>


my response:


:
>I understand your position. That has frightened me for years, and as my Dad
>says, "I ain't scared of nuthin'!" We are faced with so many 'crisis'
>issues in our time, that it is hard to define priorites. The biggest red
>flag that I've seen lately has been that of an office called 'Homeland
>Security' initiated. However, I do not want to see what I have seen before
>and have personally experienced. Returning home and having fellow Americans
>mistreating me or spitting on me for having done my job. I do not want to
>see servicemen taking a hill and giving it back only to take it again
>because some politician became worried about peace protesters and polls at
>home. My previous statement stands as written. At least you have some idea
>of the true cost of freedom.
>
> Thank you for your response.
>
>W.R. Bonesteel
>
>
>>



His response:




You know one of the things the Peace Movement is really set on is how we recieve the men and women when they return from war! We have come a long way. We now understand that not everyone can leave the military and start a new life somewhere else, and that some people will join because they want to blow people up, and some will believe they are really protecting freedom, and some..... but what ever the reason...we at home have an obligation to welcome them back home with open arms and help them heal from the war they came from! We must support the fact that they were following orders. We must respect their choices and them as people.
The currant President ( and it is hard for me to call him that since his office was bought) will not be backing down because of protesters or anyone I am afraid. He is drunk on power, drunk on greed, and drunk on oil and the lives of men and women and children on both shores means nothing to him. One example is the Depleteed Uranium. It icoats missles, and tanks, and I do not know what all. It is very dangerous to our troups as well as the others. Please look it up on your computer! The protective gear is faulty...that fact has been in the news.....Desert Storm Vets are sick from D.U. the like Agent Orange...the government is denying possiblity of exposure to anything! Do you know that on both shores wopmen are haivng babies that are so deformed from this Depleted Uranium that you can hardly recognise them? And the stuff does not disolve! And it stays in the human body at full strength and is genetically altering is what I understand. As a peace activist and organizer...I w!
orry aobut more then bombs.....long term effects....Friends of my brother's that were in Vietnam have died from these huge lumps that the Vet Hospital said were nothing, some went up in the hills and hid out...are still hiding out....a cousin of mine use to get drunk and beat up garbage cans.....he was a tunnel rat...but he had been ordered in to a villiage and was ordered to kill anything that moved...they put the dead babies into garbage cans so when he came back...he could not live with what he had done....so he drank...and then beat up every garbage can in the area, He was never able to keep a woman or to have children, or a home to speak of. Depleted Uranium, Agent Orange, Post Tramatic Stress Disorder, Poor Vet. Medical Care, Government Denial of dangers THAT THEY ALREADY KNOW ARE REAL...........these are a few of the reasons that I am a Peace Activist now.
I am in full respect of your opinion and your concerns! I am also greatful that you were interested enough to hear my side!
Thank you!
Funke



( Cont)

[wrbones]

This is a response that I had not solicited nor expected. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
&gt;Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 9:15 AM <br />
&gt;Subject: Fwd:Depleted uranium: war hazard? <br />
&gt; <br />
&gt; <br />
&gt;&gt; Mr. Bonesteel, this is about the...

[wrbones]

>> >
>> >
>> > 'Contamination was all over'
>> >
>> > Burning tanks, burning oil fields, charred bodies.
>> >
>> > This was Kuwait after the Gulf War. Rokke had a mission > >tanks
>> >contaminated with DU. What Rokke found terrified him. "Oh my God is the
>only
>> >way to describe it," Rokke said. "Contamination was all over."
>> >
>> > Rokke and his crew were measuring significant levels of radiation up
>to
>> >50 meters away from affected tanks: up to 300 millirems an hour in beta
>and
>> >gamma radiation, and alpha radiation from the thousands to the millions
>in
>> >counts per minute (CPM) on a Geiger counter.
>> >
>> > "That whole area is still trashed," he said. "It's hotter than heck
>over
>> >there still. This stuff doesn't go away."
>> >
>> > His team took three months to clean up 24 tanks for transport back to
>> >the U.S.
>> >
>> > The Army, Rokke said, took another three years to fully decontaminate
>> >the same 24 tanks.
>> >
>> > But the contaminated tanks weren't the only problem. Within 72 hours
>of
>> >their inspections, Rokke and his crew started getting sick.
>> >
>> > But they continued with their work. They went back to the U.S. to
>> >perform tests on Army bases. They deliberately blew up tanks with DU
>rounds,
>> >then ran over and jumped on the tanks while they were still burning. They
>> >videotaped the uranium-oxide clouds pouring out, and they measured the
>> >radiation being thrown off.
>> >
>> > In the past decade, Rokke said 30 men out of 100 who were closely
>> >involved in these operations dropped dead.
>> >
>> > Rokke's lungs and kidneys are damaged. He believes that uranium oxide
>> >dust is
>> >permanently trapped inside his lungs. He has lesions on his brain,
>pustules
>> >on his skin. He suffers from chronic fatigue syndrome. He has reactive
>> >airway disease, which means he can't stop wheezing and coughing, and
>> >experiences a loss of breath when he exercises. He also has fibromyalgia,
>a
>> >condition that causes chronic pain in his muscles, ligaments and tendons.
>> >
>> > The VA tested Rokke for uranium levels in his body in 1994. He got
>the
>> >results back two and a half years later. His urine had 5000 times the
>amount
>> >of permissible uranium.
>> >
>> > After years of fighting with the VA, Rokke said he managed to get a
>40
>> >percent disability, but there is no official acknowledgement that his
>> >illnesses were caused by his work with DU.
>> >
>> > The Army and the Pentagon continue to insist that DU is safe. Rokke
>says
>> >they know better, because he gave them the proof. He said they can't find
>> >evidence of DU's dangers because "they're looking for the wrong stuff,
>and
>> >they're using the wrong procedures."
>> >
>> > The problem with DU, he said, is the stuff that's given off when a
>round
>> >is fired. The projectile begins burning immediately, and up to 70 percent
>of
>> >it oxidizes. This aerosolized power > >stuff, Rokke said, particularly
>when it is inhaled.
>> >
>> > Rokke insists that he and his men were wearing protective equipment >
>>equipment they thought would protect them. But their face masks were
>capable
>> >of straining out particles of 10 microns or larger. That's as big as the
>DU
>> >particles get, according to the Army and the Pentagon.
>> >
>> > Rokke, however, insists that he has measured particles as small as .3
>> >microns, and that scientists at the Livermore laboratories have measured
>> >them as small as .1 micron.
>> >
>> > Thus these safety precautions, which are still in place now, are
>utterly
>> >useless, he said.
>> >

[wrbones]

>> >
>> > 'I'm a warrior and a patriot'
>> >
>> > About one quarter of the 700,000 troops sent to the Persian Gulf War
>> >have reported some sort of Gulf War-related illness, and Rokke is
>convinced
>> >that DU has something to do with it, along with the host of other
>chemicals
>> >to which troops were exposed, including low levels of sarin gas, smoke
>from
>> >oil fires, countless pesticides as well as anti-nerve gas tablets which
>> >troops were required to ingest.
>> >
>> > If Rokke is right about the dangers of DU, why does the Department of
>> >Defense continue to use it and insist that it is safe?
>> >
>> > "When you go to war, your purpose is to kill," Rokke said, "and DU is
>> >the best killing thing we got."
>> >
>> > Rokke believes that the U.S. military is putting more emphasis on
>> >firepower than on the health and safety of its own troops.
>> >
>> > He received a memo in the early 90s he says proves his theory. Dated
>> >March 1, 1991, the memo was written by Lt. Col. M.V. Ziehmn at the Los
>> >Alamos Laboratories in New Mexico.
>> >
>> > "There has been and continues to be a concern regarding the impact of
>dU
>> >[sic] on the environment. Therefore, if no one makes a case for the
>> >effectiveness of dU on the battlefield, dU rounds may become politically
>> >unacceptable and thus, be deleted from the arsenal," the memo reads. "If
>dU
>> >penetrators proved their worth during our recent combat activities, then
>we
>> >should assure their future existence (until something better is
>developed)
>> >through Service/DoD proponency. If proponency is not garnered, it is
>> >possible that we stand to lose a valuable combat capability. I believe we
>> >should keep this sensitive issue at mind when after action reports [sic]
>are
>> >written."
>> >
>> > The meaning of this memo is quite clear, Rokke said. Since DU
>munitions
>> >are so
>> >effective, they must continue to be used in combat, regardless of the
>> >environmental or health consequences.
>> >
>> > The other issue is financial, he said. If the true effects of DU were
>> >known, cleanup costs would be absolutely staggering.
>> >
>> > DU contaminated areas extend much farther than the Persian Gulf
>> >battlefields. Rokke said DU is regularly used in practice maneuvers in
>the
>> >U.S., namely in Indiana, Florida, New Mexico, Massachusetts, Maryland and
>> >Puerto Rico. Then there's Kosovo, where DU rounds were used to take out
>> >Serbian tanks.
>> >
>> > As the U.S. stands on the brink of another war with Iraq, Rokke said
>he
>> >wants to make sure the American public fully understands that this war
>will
>> >be far worse that the last one, and that numbers of troops sickened by DU
>is
>> >likely to be much higher.
>> >
>> > Rokke insists he is no pacifist.
>> >
>> > "I'm a warrior and a patriot," he said. Given a verifiable threat
>> >against the U.S., ³I would go to war in a heartbeat."
>> >
>> > But he said that he is speaking out for the good of American troops,
>and
>> >for anyone, including Iraqi troops and civilians, who could be exposed to
>> >DU.
>> >
>> > "Am I pushing for peace today? Yes, I am," he said.
>> >
>> > Before a war with Iraq can even be contemplated, Rokke said, DU has
>to
>> >be removed from every arsenal in the world.
>> >
>> > In order for that to happen, however, the Pentagon would have to
>admit
>> >that Doug Rokke is right, and that would come at a price that no one has
>> >even imagined.
>> >
>> > But money can¹t restore the lives of those that Rokke says have died
>> >from DU, and money isn¹t going to get the uranium oxide out of his lungs.
>> >There are people at the Pentagon who understand all this, Rokke claims,
>and
>> >that he deems unconscionable.
>> >
>> > "I hope God slam-dunks their butts, because this is absolutely
>> >criminal," he said.
>> >
>> > >>

[wrbones]

My response:


On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:12:17 -0700 WR Bonesteel <wrbones@rushmore.com> wrote:
>Our interaction to this point has been one of healthy disagreement! I do
>not mind your 'bothering' me at all! I find it stimulating intellectually as
>well as emotionally. I am pleased that we can disagree without devolving
>into name calling and recriminations. You are welcome to bother me any time.
>
>
>
> Warren R. Bonesteel
> Sgt USMC 1976-1983
>
>



His response:

Mr. Bonesteel,
I feel that you have paid me a great compliment...thank you! Very few times in life can two sides of an issue discuss the issue with respect and come away learning from the other. You mentioned name calling...I would hope mature adults would not do that...but I have seen it happen on both sides...very sad. I hope that if you happen across a peace Demonstration that I am hosting that you could walk up to me and shake hands with me and know that we agree on some levels and feel "ok" not agreeing on other levels. You would even be welcome to express your concerns for men and women returning form the war at one of my demonstrations if you would like. We ahve a respectful crew adn you would not be mistreated. I am the organizer for NOT IN OUR NAME here in Bellingham Washington.
Thank you for being an open minded person willing to accept others points of views with so much respect!
Funke Olise




I will respond to this shortly. Had I the resources, I would go and address his little Rally using my original message as the text of my speech.

[wrbones]

I hope I got my history right.

Her response to my original email:

Dear Warren,

Unfortunately your limited understanding and knowledge of your country's impacts through its foreign policies over many decades is too common. I suggest you read Rogue State and The Algebra of Infinite Justice to broaden your understanding. The US government, often through the CIA, has funded and or supported the Taliban, Saddam Hussein and numerous other dictators and murderers. They have supported the military occupation of Palestinian Territories for decades. When exactly have they been on the side of justice and equity?

The terrorism of the US administration is the mirror image of the terrorism of the twin towers. War will not provide an answer and war on Iraq is a blatant grab for oil and power in the Middle East. This is obvious to most except those who don't want to see. I am sorry for Veterans, they have been used horribly, especially in the Gulf War with the contact with depleted uranium and who knows what else in the form of chemicals and innoculations.

People globally don't hate the American people, but US foreign policy has created many injustices which are deeply opposed. The fear which pervades American culture should be resisted. As Michael Moore has demonstrated so ably - fear can be manipulated very easily and results in horrendous numbers of deaths by Americans against Americans. Resist fear and oppose injustice - that will provide more security to Americans than any war which the inadequate US government is planning.

sincerely

Kathryn


My response to her:


Kathyrn,

I'm afraid you've made an assumption. I am well aware of what has gone
on politically over the last couple of decades. In addition I have a pretty
solid base in these issues going back to Colonial America. In the issues you
have brought up, the focus of everything, including Vietnam, was the defeat
of Russia and Communism in numerous locations around the world. The Cold War
left a helluva mess. We are still cleaning up after it. The middle east is a
part of that mess that was there long before WWII. In the fight we had
during the Cold War many of our temporary 'allies' were used to distract,
deter and then to deplete the resources of our enemies. It worked.The
Russians and Communist China violated every accord as soon as they signed
them as far back as WWII. We've been dealing with it ever since. We avoided
a nuclear holocaust in such fashion as 'using' people like Hussein and many
others. The Taliban also changed their stripes quite dramatically after they
got what they wanted out of us. This is quite often the case with the people
you say we've mistreated.

All wars have ultimately been about resources. In this case, they have
brought the fight to us. Now we must defend ourselves. If we profit from the
deal, well and good.

Many of the issues that I brought out in my previous email you seem to have
ignored.

If you consider your government to be inadequate in any fashion, then
perhaps it is time to change the government. Perhaps to one similar to the
one Afghanistan had? Maybe one just like Saddam's? I am sure you will be
much happier there. People who protest in those types of nations do lead an
interesting if somewhat short life span however.

You seem to say that the UN and world law are no longer matter. Israel is a
nation. Palestine wishes to destroy them. Should Israel not defend itself?

One other thing. The Muslim religion has no place for such as you and I. We
are infidel. less than the dirt on their feet. Only barely worth killing
unless we happen to be in the way. Many of those nations and organizations
have declared 'Jihad' against us. This is a forever war until all who are
not them have been killed and all traces of us wiped from the face of the
earth. Freedom of religion is freedom to join them ( maybe) or to die ( Most
likely).

Fear also leads men to seek peace in the face of a war brought upon them by
others.

One final note. Tactically and strategically, the war in Southeast Asia had
been won. In addition, the North Vietnamese had no further resources to
continue the fight. They were out of men and materials. Russia was nearly
broke as was China. Weak leadership and fearful civilians at home were what
lost that war. You might want to read what North Vietnamese political and
military leaders have said about this.

Many other nations have been like Somalia. 'Come help us" They said. We came
to help and they attacked us repeatedly. We left. now several years later,
The same men who attacked and killed Americans are saying" Come help us."
This is something else that has often occurred in our relations with other
nations that you so decry.

I am pleased that you have taken the time out of your day to respond to me.

Thank you, dear lady.

[wrbones]

two-hundred and fifty odd emails sent in the last forty-eight hours to places and people as odd and sundry as US politicians, colleges, universities and their presidents, newspapers from here to Pakistan and Europe, plus as many 'peace' organisers as I had time for. All sorts of people and places! LOL.


I like the internet.....

[wrbones]

To: WR Bonesteel
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: Peace Rallys: Iraq, western asia and the middle east


i very much appreciate your note.

i think that there is a fundamental distinction between supporting the soldiers, sailors, airmen/women vs supporting the failed foreign policies that constantly have the USA intervening in conflicts and imposing its will on others. The rank and file of the armed forces, thus, get used as pawns by the rich and powerful in order to achieve aims that are more often than not antithetical to the interests of the average person.

US foreign policy is so biased; so disingenuous. Lies are promoted time and again until people begin believing them to be true. When a debate is raised, those who ask questions are condemned as unpatriotic. The opposite is the case.

i am not interested in seeing one of my young relatives killed or otherwise die as a result of a war that should not happen. i saw too much of that during the Indochina war. It should not happen again.

Thanks, once more, for your considered note.

Bill Fletcher, Jr.




My response:







Bill,

Are there no rich or powerful individuals using pawns in 'peace rallys'? There are other ways to change foreign policies than to misuse the defense of our nation and consequently, those who've chosen a military career to defend it. In addition, the interests of those who are rich and powerful seldom have much to do with the well-being of the average person. In this nation, that balance is somewhat better than in other nations on this earth at this time.

Peace activists have historically been the first to abuse men and women in uniform. You will have to do much better than that, I'm afraid! LOL.

I have a nephew and a son of age to be drafted if it comes to that. My family has a long history of supporting this nation in time of war as well as times of peace. This history dates to the Colonial Army.

The Vietnam War was a part of the Cold War which defeated Russia and hindered the rise of communism. It's loss was one in which weak leaders and fearful civilians had our armed forces leave a war that had been won. This war drained our Cold War enemies of resources, and as well, helped us avoid a nuclear holocaust.

Any idea that lies are not a part of foreign policy is living a life in which reality has not intruded. To our credit, we tell far fewer lies than those who criticise the U.S.

I do not question the patriotism of peace activists, but I do wonder about their motivation. I also wonder about the motivation of planning the route on the 18th in D.C. so that it passses The Wall and then plans a 'rest' at the Marine Barracks at 8th and I streets. The history of such a route and the purpose for using it cannot have escaped you. Surely this is not purposely planned that an incident may occur in which better media coverage might be ensured?

I do appreciate your time and your response.

signed




Warren R. Bonesteel
Sgt USMC 1976-1983



His reply:


With all due respect, we fundamentally disagree. The peace movement never sent people off to die for useless, and in many cases, illegal and aggressive objectives. The abuse that men and women in uniform receive is the misleadership that they get when they are sent off on such missions.

Thanks, nevertheless, for your point of view. i appreciate your taking the time to correspond.

Bill

[firstsgtmike]

Rhetoric is nice, but unfortunately not one of the responders have been able to answer a direct question.

[Barndog]

If I may borrow a quote from a 1stSgt friend of mine....

" I don't share the same view with them, but I will defend their right to say it with THEIR lives. As long as they stay out of mine."
-1stSgt Mike, Phillipines

That is not rhetorical. That is a direct quote.

Semper FI

[Joe Gore]

All the peace protesters should really stop and think when they start to march and speak. If it wasn't for the members of the US Military they would not be able to march, speak and none of us would be able to express our views on the internet. In this great country you have freedom of speach and religion along with numerous other right's and freedoms that people in other countries do not have. MR. Fletcher don't ever forget why you can speak your mind and protest a war!!!!!!!!!!! If it wasn't for the past, present and future members of the US Military you would not have any rights.

Semper FI and God Bless America

[Barrio_rat]

Well stated Marines! And I just gotta add....

I'm thankfull that no bullets (or other harmful material) got past the body gaurds for Al Gore when he was in Vietnam - otherwise, the internet may never have been invented!

Semper Fi!

[wrbones]

Their resopnse:



From: "greens" <greens@zounds.net>

Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: Peace Rallys, Iraq and western asia


> Thank you for your words, but you misunderstand our intent. My brother
> is currently in the military, as well as many other friends of mine. My
> husband served in the army, and we come from a long line of famlies that
> have served in the armed forces. As you can see, my intention is not to
> disrespect or dishonor those who have died for my right to protest this
> unjust political action.
>
> Bush's current problem with Iraq is different from any war we have had
> previously. My intention is to speak out against this war, and ask our
> government to think twice before they send our soldiers to their
> needless deaths. I support our troops, and their right to life. I
> respect them for what they have so valiantly offered to do, for our
> sake, and for the sake of others. I just do not think this particular
> war effort is a wise decision.
>
> If Bush does send our troops to their needless deaths, our troops will
> do what they were trained to do, and follow orders to whatever end. I
> just want our leaders to use our forces for what the signed up for
> (protecting America, not instigating war), and try to look at a peaceful
> solution instead of just rushing into battle. My problem is not with
> the soldiers who will actually go off to Iraq, my problem is only with
> our commander in chief. He is given the chance to be a "fearless
> leader" because he has nothing to fear. He can hide in the oval office
> while our troops are sent to their deaths for a vendetta regime change,
> and for cheap oil to spark our stagnant economy. As I, and many other
> veterans, see it this is an inappropriate use of our armed services.
>
> Thank you for concern and for your service to our country. I will
> continue to seek peace, and speak out against Bush making America the
> aggressor.
>
> www.zounds.net/greens


My reply:


>

>Well written but unsigned,

My words stand as written. I respect your choice. I also come from a long
line of servicemen in this nation's history stretching back to Colonial Army
days. The 'best intent' of peace protesters did nothing to halt the
mistreatment of Veterans from the Vietnam War until well into the early 80's
by civilians. A atmosphere that was assuredly started by 'peace' activists.

Peaceful solutions to terrorism have been looked at and many billions of
dollars and tens of thousands of man-hours have been spent in the search for
a peaceful solution with Iraq and others in Western Asia. If you have a
better solution than allowing our servicemen and women to be shot at on a
near daily basis in following the dictates of the UN in it's blockades and
sanctions against Iraq, please let those folks in power know. As well, many
servicemen and Americans as well as the citizens of other nations have been
viciously killed with little or no response for more than twenty years.

Islam has declared 'Jihad' against us. To them, this is a forever war until
we are all dead. We are less than human to them. They will not desist until
we are all dead and our nation is destroyed. They will not honor any treaty,
pact, or word that they speak. We are not
worth thehonour to them of keeping their word. In addition, they consider
people like those who organize peace rallys to be weak and cowardly.

Peace activism gives then fodder for their propaganda machine.


Your vendetta seems to be against Bush. I would think that you might more
realistically desire a change in the constitution and in the way that our
government does business. Peace rallys are notoriously ineffective at doing
this. They have stopped no war for as long as there has been a written
history.


Historically, all wars are ultimately about resources. We have not brought
this war upon ourselves. It has been brought to us. If we profit upon
winning such a war, so be it. We certainly profited after WWII, WWI and all
other wars that we have fought. Were such wars not just?

Did you know that peace rallys were held until sometime after Pearl Harbour
was attacked? Did you know that peace rallys were held before and during the
Civil War?
Did you know that peace rallys were held before WWI?
The Vietnam war, although definitely mishandled, was used as many other such
conflicts during the Cold War to drain the resources of our enemies. It
worked.

The situation that we now face harkens back to that time. A clean-up
operation, if you will. However, many different nations have attempted to
negotiate, help, assist, grow economies and stabilize Western Asia for over
a hundred years?They have been consistently resistant to such efforts. I
would say that we leave them alone...but they have not left us alone. How
many Americans must die from the efforts of such regimes as the one
currently in power in Iraq? At some time we must defend ourselves. The
reality is that they have been bringing war to us for years.

Your intentions aside, what is the reality that we face?



Warren R. Bonesteel
Sgt USMC 1976-1983

[echovet]

Okay......how many people saw GARBAGE CANS in Vietnamese villages.......did they take the cans from their base.......wouldn't that be premeditated murder..........so many questions so few answers........Echovet

[wrbones]

----- Original Message -----
columbusnion@yahoo.com

Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: Peace Rallys, Iraq, western asia and the middle east


> Dear Mr. Bonesteel,
>
> You say that you value "freedom." Does that freedom
> include the hundreds of thousands of Native Americans
> who were slaughtered to found this "freedom Loving
> Country" The land you live on in South Dakota was
> stolen through a war of aggression and annhilation.
> What of the the Japanese Americans detained during
> WWII. Did they deserve any less freedom. Today as we
> speak even more people are being rounded up and
> detained, their freedoms being stripped away because
> of the color of their skin or the country in which
> they were born. The very freedoms you are speaking of
> are being stripped away and suspended in "order to
> save them" This failed logic reminds me of a famous
> quote of a US officer during Vietnam, "We must burn
> the village in order to save the village." Soldiers
> are being told to do the bidding of people who have no
> morals, who have no respect for justice or the lives
> of human beings. What they are being told to do is
> illegal and more importantly IMMORAL. It is their duty
> to refuse to commit these acts. If the US was not all
> over the world carrying out devious acts in order to
> maintain control and allow a small section of the
> American ruling class to "live off the fat of the
> land" then there would not be widespread hatered for
> the US government. Thats right, people hate the US
> government not the US people. People around the world
> can make the distinction between the Government and
> the People, why can't we? With freedom comes
> responsibility. Here in the US we do have freedom,
> around the world many people do not. It is our
> responsibility to speak for them to show how they are
> being denied Justice and Peace. If we do not oppose
> the injustices carried out by our government on the
> people of the world than that is treasonous to the
> world and to the people who will die because of it.
> So what do you know of Depleted Uranium ammunitions?
>
>
> =====
> NO WAR!
>
> Let it never be said that the people of the US did nothing when their
government declared an unending war on the world!




my response



You refuse to sign your legal name to your own words. Where is the honor in
that. That speaks of things which fear the light and must be hidden.

My grandmother was half Lakota. I have the blood of the Cherokee in my veins
as well as the blood of Germanic, English and Norwegian peoples. I am an
American. Consider the history of all if you are able. The Sioux had this
land through aggression. They were forced from their own lands near the
great lakes only a couple of centuries before men 'colonized' the Midwest.
This is the history of man. It cannot be denied. Your logic train is
therefore false on these issues and is therefore false on several levels.
Not the least of which is a profound lack of knowledge of history and a
display of racial discrimination and prejudice that is unbelievable to
behold.

Japanese Americans were used by our enemies whether through naiveté or
ignorance as a source of information and technology for the spies in their
midst before and throughout WWII. Whether their installation at THAT time
was right or wrong is not for us to judge. It is history. The men in
positions of power from such times are either dead or elderly at best.
Unless you espouse some sort of conspiracy theory concerning our government
and others throughout the world.

Daily, terrorists with proof of their crimes upon them, and proof of their
intent to commit future crimes upon them, are being found throughout our
nation. I am intensely disturbed that much of the legislation being enacted,
or legislation that may be used to reduce our freedoms is awaiting the
attention of Congress at this time. Peace rallies will not change this.
Other venues are available to address those issues. They have been ignored
by most folks like yourself for years. That is what is troubling.

An enemy soldier does not have rights under the constitution. There are
other laws under which their treatment and internment are addressed. Another
matter to take before Congress if you will. Any who attack or plan attacks
upon the American people have already declared war upon us. This is another
legal issue for Congres and the courts to address. Perhaps an issue for a
separrate demonstration altogether.

As far as the morals of the servicemen and their leadership at this time is
concerned, I suggest that you may wish to spend some time with the officers
and men of any branch of the service and tell me what you learn of morals
and honorable behavior. They are not lacking among them. As for the
politicians in administration in the White House, I have yet to hear of
illegal financial dealings and sexual scandal from that quarter. Perhaps you
are referring to the last administration?

The statement from the officer who was in Vietnam has been taken entirely
out of context. He was referring metaphorically to the way the communists
had infiltrated every facet of life in South Vietnam during the war, and
also addressed the ineffectiveness of the South Vietnamese government in
dealing with spies and terrorists.

I acknowledge that there are many inequities in our present method of
government and the interpretation of the laws of the land as regards
differences between the way the rich and the poor are treated legally. It is
a matter of who can afford the best lawyers. Again, a topic for an entirely
different sort of demonstration. That has little to do with this present
trouble with Western Asia. Trouble in Western Asia has been present for many
centuries. Their troubles have spilled out of their geographic location and
have spread all over the world, killing many thousands of innocent men,
women and children. Billions of dollars of help and support over several
decades have been of no use.

Indeed, with freedom comes responsibility. The responsibility that may bring
one to decide to fight for continued freedom. To use freedom responsibly is
not to demonstrate in such a fashion as to cause trouble or invoke violent
vilification of those tou say you oppose, but to seek a peaceful solution.
One that is provided by the constitution of the nation you have so villified
in your response to me. The same constitution that is protected by the men
and women of our armed forces. The same constitution that gives you the
right to speak out concerning issues that you have a vested interest in as a
citizen of this self-same democratic-republic that you seemingly so detest.

Were it not for that government and it's constitution and the men and women
in uniform, and those who fight on other battlefields, such as Congress and
diplomacts, and certain politicians that you have elected to voice your
concerns for you, you would not dare to speak as you have.

In any case, I personally suspect you to be guilty of sedition at this
point. It is a very fine line that you walk.

Has depleted uranium been proven to cause any harm to people? Perhaps you
might send me some facts concerning this issue. I am not interested in
displaced and incomprehensible rhetoric, thank you.

I do appreciate your time. I realize that you must be very busy, what with a
government to topple and all. Good luck! and remember! Were this one of any
number of other nations, such as Iraq or the previous government in
Afghanistan, you would be in prison, tortured and then shot or beheaded by
now!

Enjoy your freedom! Use it responsibly.

signed,


Warren R. Bonesteel
Sgt USMC 1976-1983

[firstsgtmike]

Bones,

One of the things I really enjoy watching, is someone p issing up a rope.

Thanks for the entertainment.

[wrbones]

LOL> Always glad to be of some amusement there, First Sergeant!

I prefer the more self deceptive description of 'tilting at windmills'!
;)


I think I can find a donkey fer someone to ride if they wanna follow me around and make wry remarks about my behaviour! :D

[wrbones]

She didn't seem to hear a word I said.

-------Original Message-------

From: kkelly
Date: Monday, January 06, 2003 5:27:42 AM

Subject: Re: Peace Rallys, Iraq and Western Asia

You talk about the UN and world law. It is precisely the UN which Israel and the US has ignored for decades. Israel is in no danger from Palestinians, but Palestinians are certainly in danger of complete ethnic cleansing from Israel. I don't support suicide bombings, they are also the mirror image of Sharon's terrorism against the Palestinian people. The occupation causes resistance. Wouldn't you resist military occupation of the US?

I think most countries on the receiving end of US 'help' would say "with friends like that, who needs enemies?"
I have many Muslim and Jewish friends. I think the stereotypes you portray don't help in understanding the current issue. It is about justice and opposing dispossession - not about religion.

best wishes for 2003
Kathryn


----------
kathk@orac.net.au

I'll get around to answering her in a day or so.

I can't help but consider saying something about rose colored glasses.....and her having stereotyper the U.S's role in world affairs.

[Barndog]

I kinda think it's more like the black glasses a blind person would wear.

I still don't get it - what gives these people - who don't - pay taxes, vote in, nor fight for, this country the RIGHT

To criticize the policies in which WE don't vote for? I certanly did not vote for them. I'm am not a Bush fan - never have been - never will be. BUT - I DO think he hit the nail on the head when he said ' the United Nations is in danger of becoming irrelevant'.

The whole picture is not being looked at here. Sad isn't it.

Oh, and Kathryn - it's about religion. It's called Jihad. That's 'Holy War' - in case you did not know.

Iraq is a diversion to the real matter at hand. It's all because Saddam tried to kill his Daddy. (not)

[wrbones]

I have been posting the email addys as they are readily available on the internet.



----- Original Message -----
cuthulu@sport.rr.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Peace Rallys, Iraq and Western Asia


> At 10:39 PM 1/5/2003 -0700, WR Bonesteel wrote:
>
> >To those who organize 'Peace Rally's'
>
> You don't intimidate me or convince me otherwise.
>
> I AM a veteran. I am against this war on Iraq. I will protest when, where
> and in what manner I choose. I hope your veteran friends are there. We can
> swap war stories about how great it was to be shot at and bombed. Then,
> your side will go off to send more kids to slaughter, and my side will
work
> to stop it. How does this war against Iraq protect our freedom? It
doesn't.
> Iraq is no threat to U.S freedom at all.
>
>



my response





My intent is not to intimidate, but to elicit a response and to perhaps open
a dialogue. My original email stands as written. I do not see an advantage
in allowing the men and women of our military services to be shot at almost
daily while enforcing UN sanctions against Iraq. Iraq has been proven time
and again to be harboring and supporting those who have attacked and killed
Americans. We have spent two decades allowing our men in uniform to be
killed by terrorists while in UN supported peace missions throughout the
world. Perhaps your efforts for may better be directed towards those who
kill our brothers in arms?

My concern with peace activists at this time, is that historically they end
up directing their efforts towards those who have been ordered to do their
jobs in such conflicts.

Demonstrate. As a Veteran, you have certainly earned the right to do so. A
peace demonstration in order to change our government seems to be a
misdirected and somewhat illogical effort. Other avenues for change are
available. I would think that such demonstrations would be better named for
their intent.

Often and historically those who finance peace activist have other things on
their agenda. I ask that you look into the backgrounds of those who offer to
finance your own endeavors.

Using those who have died on the field of battle as a foil for your own
efforts seems, at the least, to be disrespectful of the dead as well as a
manipulative practice to give credence to a weak argument is detestable and
lacks honor... although I will admit it makes good headlines.

As far as intimidation is concerned, I am an unknown who has no power or
influence and these are just words on a screen wherein I have made no overt
threat towards you or any others.

I question what you do and why. That is all.

Your email address was readily available on the net. I have not therefore
violated anyone's privacy.

Iraq's threat may not threaten our freedom, but the lives of many men,
women and children, both American and others, have been taken or destroyed
by it's government.

I do not believe that everything that the American government does is good
or correct. I am not the blind follower of any political party or school of
thought. However I express myself concerning those issues by contacting
directly every government office or politician that I think may have some
direct influence over the events that concern me. I have seen things change
as a result of this kind of activism.

Peace activism concerning wars, historically has had very little effect on
the outcome of any violent conflict between nations.

I do appreciate your having taken the time to correspond with me.

signed,



Warren R. Bonesteel
Sgt USMC 1976-1983

[wrbones]

January 18 Update:
NEW ENDORSERS, SPEAKERS & MORE!

Momentum is growing for the January 18 National March on
Washington DC and joint action in San Francisco.
Transportation is now being organized from over 200
cities in 45 different states. Read the following email
for exciting updates on January 18 endorsers, speakers,
protests around the world, media coverage and how you can
get to Washington DC or San Francisco.

I. The plan for January 18
II. New Endorsers
III. New Speakers
IV. More demonstrations around the world
V. Ramsey Clark on Al-Jazeera
VI. 0% chance of precipitation for January 18!

---------------------------------------------

PLANS FOR JAN. 18 NATIONAL MARCH ON WASHINGTON DC
& JOINT ACTION IN SAN FRANCISCO

11 AM
WEST SIDE OF THE CAPITOL
(on the National Mall at 3rd St.)
MARCH to the Washington Navy Yard

The scenario plan for Washington DC includes an 11 am
opening rally on the West side of the Capitol Building (on
the National Mall at 3rd St. NW). This rally will include
representatives from the diverse movements and
organizations that oppose the war. Following the rally,
we will hold a mass march to the Washington Navy Yard -- a
massive military installation located in a working class
neighborhood in Southeast Washington DC that parks
warships on the Anacostia River.

In San Francisco, assemble 11 am at the foot of Market St.
at Embarcadero. Rally then march to Civic Center Plaza
(Grove & Larkin) adjacent to City Hall for a closing rally
with speakers, entertainment and cultural performances.

For more information, go to
http://www.InternationalANSWER.org

**********

NEW ENDORSERS

There have been many new endorsements for the January 18
National March on Washington DC in the last week. New
endorsers include Janeane Garofalo, Jessica Lange,
Veterans for Peace, 1199 SEIU New York's Health and Human
Service Union, Fellowship of Reconciliation, Voices in the
Wilderness, School of the Americas Watch, New York Youth
Bloc, Physicians for Social Responsibility, Anti-Flag &
A-F Records, United for Peace, MADRE, Board of Directors
of Peace Action of Michigan and many more.

For a FULL LIST OF ENDORSERS, go to:
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/j18/endorsers.html

**********

PERFORMANCES INCLUDE Chumbawamba, Patti Smith, and Pam
Parker & Lucy Murphy

UPDATED LIST OF SPEAKERS & MESSAGES:

- Former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney
- Bishop Thomas Gumbleton, Auxiliary Bishop, Catholic
Archdiocese of Detroit
- Ramsey Clark, former U.S. attorney general
- Rev. Al Sharpton, National Action Network
- Rev. Herbert Daughtry, national pastor, House of the
Lord Church, Brooklyn
- Mike Farrell, actor
- Jessica Lange, actor
- Elizabeth McAlister, Jonah House
- Mahdi Bray, Executive Director, Muslim American Society
Freedom Foundation
- Brenda Stokely, President, District Council 1707 AFSCME;
Co-Convener, New York City Labor Against the War
- Damu Smith, Black Voices for Peace
- Michael Letwin, Co-Convener, New York City Labor Against
the War
- Representative of 1199 SEIU New York's Health and Human
Service Union
- Ron Kovic, Vietnam Veteran and author of "Born on the
Fourth of July"
- Peta Lindsay, A.N.S.W.E.R. Youth and Student
Coordinator, Howard University student
- Rev. Graylan Hagler, Senior Minister, Plymouth
Congregational Church
- Bayan
- Free Palestine Alliance
- Macrina Cardenas, Mexico Solidarity Network
- Yoomi Jeong, Korea Truth Commission
- Nicaragua Network
- Partnership for Civil Justice
- Muslim Students Association of the U.S. & Canada
- IFCO/Pastors for Peace
- International Action Center
- Rev. John Dear
- Medea Benjamin, Global Exchange
- Bill Fletcher, Co-Chair, United for Peace; TransAfrica
- Blasé Bonpane, Director, Office of the Americas
- Not in Our Name Project
- Mumia Abu-Jamal
- New York Youth Bloc
- Representative of women's struggle to defend
reproductive rights on the 30th anniversary of Roe v Wade

**********

DEMONSTRATIONS AROUND THE WORLD JANUARY 18

On January 18 -- in addition to the National March on
Washington DC and joint action in San Francisco ?
solidarity demonstrations will take place in over 25
countries around the world. In the past week new
information came in about demonstrations in several Latin
American countries, Bahrain, Pakistan and Australia.

Solidarity demonstrations are set to take place in Egypt,
Bahrain, Pakistan, Japan, the Philippines, South Korea,
Mexico, Argentina, Ecuador, Puerto Rico, Canada, Italy,
Spain, France, Belgium, Australia, Indonesia, England,
Germany, Austria, Russia and more.

In Argentina, the Association of Madres de Plaza de Mayo
have called for a demonstration on Thursday, Jan. 16, as
Thursday is the day they have been demonstrating for the
last twenty-five years. They will march from the Plaza
Italia to the U.S. Embassy. Below is the press release
from Madres de Plaza de Mayo:

PRESS RELEASE: No War Against Iraq!

The ASSOCIATION OF MADRES DE PLAZA DE MAYO joins the call
for a DAY OF INTERNATIONAL ACTIONS AGAINST THE WAR ON IRAQ
taking place on January 18 in the United States. This call
was made by an important group of organizations and
personalities that are opposed to the imperialist war and
call for a March from Plaza Italia to the United States
Embassy for the 16 of January 2003.

Hebe de Bonafini, President
Buenos Aires, January 7th, 2003

**********

RAMSEY CLARK ON AL-JAZEERA

For those of who have the access to Al Jazeera through
satellite, Ramsey Clark is due to appear live on the
channel's news show on Friday, January 10. Barring any
last-minute changes, he is scheduled to come on at about
12:05 pm.

**********

0% CHANCE OF PRECIPITATION FOR JANUARY 18!

According to weather.com, as of Thursday, January 9, there
is a 0% chance of precipitation on January 18!

**********

For a list of CITIES ORGANIZING TRANSPORTATION, go to:
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/j18/j18contacts.html

If you're organizing a bus from your city, fill out the
easy-to-use form at:
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/j18/j18contacts.html#list
(if this link does not take you directly to the form,
please scroll down)

Help spread the word! DOWNLOAD the NEW FLYER at
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/resources/index.html
(If you are unable to download it, call 202-544-3389 or
415-821-6545 to have an original copy mailed to you.)

For LOGISTICAL INFORMATION (directions, housing, parking,
etc.), go to:
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/j18/logistics.html

YOUTH & STUDENT ACTION: JAN. 18-19
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/j18/students.html

To ENDORSE, go to:
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/j18/j18endorse.html
(scroll down)

**********

FOR MORE INFORMATION:
http://www.InternationalANSWER.org
http://www.VoteNoWar.org
dc@internationalanswer.org
New York 212-633-6646
Washington 202-544-3389
Los Angeles 213-487-2368
San Francisco 415-821-6545

Sign up to receive updates (low volume):
http://www.internationalanswer.org/subscribelist.html

------------------
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This is the ANSWER activist announcement
list. Anyone can subscribe by sending
any message to <answer.general-subscribe@action-mail.org>
To unsubscribe <answer.general-off@action-mail.org>

[wrbones]

BUILDING ANTI-WAR UNITY
FOR JANUARY 18, FEBRUARY 15 & BEYOND

There is growing momentum for solidarity in the anti-war
movement in the United States and around the world. There
have been two important calls for coordinated global mass
action: one on January 18 that is anchored in the U.S.
anti-war movement and another on February 15 that is
anchored in the European movement. Below is a statement
from Elias Rashmawi, a leading figure in the recently held
world anti-war conference in Cairo, Egypt and a member of
the A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition Steering Committee.

The A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition, at a press conference on
Wednesday, January 8 in Washington DC, announced an Action
Plan to follow up the January 18 National Mobilizations in
Washington DC and San Francisco. As resistance builds in
the United States, it is manifesting itself through a
combination of grassroots anti-war actions of all types
and of national mass mobilizations.

To that end, the A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition calls for a Week
of Anti-War Resistance promoting a whole variety of
activities between February 13 and February 21.

WEEK OF ANTI-WAR RESISTANCE
FEBRUARY 13 - 21

FEBRUARY 13: Teach-ins, forums, and youth and student
action on the 12th anniversary of the deliberate
destruction of the Amariyah Bomb Shelter. On this day in
1991, the U.S. unleashed an unprecedented massive assault,
a pinpoint attack by two precision missiles launched from
a stealth bomber against an air raid shelter. Hundreds and
hundreds of young people, mainly children, and some of
their mothers, were incinerated in this calculated effort
to terrorize the Iraqi people in the Gulf War.

FEBRUARY 14: New York City Teach-in from 9 am to 4 pm on
Building an anti-war movement that connects the struggle
against war on Iraq with the fight for social and economic
justice and civil rights at home, followed by an Indoor
Rally from 7 to 10 pm on Linking the struggle against
corporate globalization, war, militarism and racism.

FEBRUARY 15: The European movement, which initiated the
call for this day of actions, has sent requests to U.S.
peace groups, including A.N.S.W.E.R., to call for actions
in the United States. United for Peace has initiated a
mass mobilization in New York City, which we support, and
we also encourage and support regional and local actions
in solidarity with actions that day in Europe and around
the world.

FEBRUARY 16- 20: Local picket lines, rallies, teach-ins,
collection of signatures in the People's Anti-War
Referendum (www.VoteNoWar.org)

FEBRUARY 21: Take to the streets to fight war and racism
on the anniversary of the assassination of Malcolm X.
Coordinated Day of Resistance, including student anti-war
walk-outs from hundreds of high schools and colleges, and
other acts of non-compliance. Youth and students have
marked this important anniversary with militant protests
on a range of issues for the last thirty-five years.
Malcolm X embodies the spirit of struggle against
militarism and the racist establishment. Honor his life
and legacy the right way: Resist! Youth and Student
A.N.S.W.E.R. will be providing leaflets, posters, stickers
and other resources for the February 21 actions.

-------------------------------------

ALL OUT ON JANUARY 18
Join the International Campaign Against US Aggression on
Iraq

By Elias A. Rashmawi
-Vice President, The International Campaign Against US
Aggression on Iraq
-Member, A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition Steering Committee
-Free Palestine Alliance - USA

The world has called for it. The movement in the US is
ALL for it. And thousands and thousands are on their way
... It is time to be part of history ... To take a stand!

This is an urgent call to ask for your active role in the
January 18 national/international mobilization in
Washington, DC and San Francisco. On that day, the eyes
of the world will be on the United States!

At the eve of the pending obliteration of Iraq, this is
the time to show our collective resolve, unity of action,
and rejection of war ...

On that day, people across the globe will send a clear
message for peace, and hope that the people of the United
States are equal to the monumental task of halting war.
This is a position we in the US cannot abrogate, a moral
duty we must undertake, and an historic responsibility
that is primarily ours.

To that end, and to expand the essential efforts of peace,
a crucial international conference with more than 400
delegates from around the world was held in Cairo, Egypt,
on December 18-19, 2002, to launch an international
movement to stop war and support self-determination for
the Iraqi and the Palestinian people. The conference
adopted the call of the ANSWER Coalition and called for
January 18, 2003, as the first international day of action
against the war to be anchored on that day in the United
States. It also adopted February 15 as the subsequent
international day of mobilization to be anchored then in
Europe.

A steering committee for the international campaign was
established, headed by former president of Algeria, the
legendary Ahmed Ben Bella, and two vice presidents, Elias
Rashmawi of the ANSWER Coalition and the Free Palestine
Alliance in the United States and John Rees of the Stop
the War Coalition in Britain. Participants of the
conference included delegates from at least 20 countries,
many Egyptian parliamentarians and prominent political
leaders, activists, writers and artists from around the
world. British Member of Parliament George Galloway along
with Dr. Hans von Sponeck and Denis Halliday, the two
former United Nations ranking officials who resigned their
UN posts in protest of the Iraq sanctions, and former US
attorney general Ramsey Clark, were among hundreds of the
distinguished conveners.

In the words of President Ben Bella, "the people of the
United States hold the primary responsibility of halting
their own government's rapid advance to war, and in
securing peace in place of destruction." The 85-year old
historic leader of Algerian independence from France, and
one of the primary legends of the decolonization era,
emphasized that the world expects the people of the United
States to once more take a moral and courageous stand as
they have before against the devastation of Vietnam.

There is no doubt that January 18 will again enter
history. On that day and as we in the US commemorate the
legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Egyptians will
remember the very same day in 1977 as they took to the
streets across the country reclaiming their nation from
the devastation of austerity measures imposed by the IMF.
This is also the time when the first destruction on Iraq
was unleashed some 12 years ago, killing so far at least
1.5 million Iraqis between the bullets of missiles and the
bullets of imposed disease and starvation.

From Egypt to the United States and to every nation
around the world, we are resolved to make this coming
January 18 a historic day of solidarity and peace. As
thousands and thousands prepare to march on Washington and
San Francisco, we echo the call of the International
Campaign Against US Aggression on Iraq and urge all to
join hands so as to link with all those standing for
justice globally.

January 18 may well be our last national/international
unified stand before destruction is unleashed, since the
Bush Administration has indicated January 28 as the day of
decision.

Peace and justice are nonetheless viable, but only if we
take a stand!

This is a duty the rests squarely on the shoulders of the
people of the United States ... and history will certainly
record this stand for generations to come.

Even in the United States itself, war has significantly
escalated against the people of the Middle East. In a
prelude to prison camps that evoke the memory of the
internment of Japanese-Americans, and as a test case to
widespread wholesale arrests, the US has begun a hateful
and racist policy of selective "registration" and mass
detention of men based on their ethnic background alone.
This manifestation of the self-serving "war on terror" is
indeed terrorizing entire communities throughout. It is a
policy that is yanking away bothers, sons, fathers, and
husbands from their families for no other reason but their
national origin. Holding criminal an entire people is
well under way in the United States. It is being
normalized and set into law.

(cont)

[wrbones]

But there is more. The campaign of destruction on
Palestine has also escalated with active US diplomatic,
political, financial, and military support and
participation. With an attack on Iraq, Israel will
undoubtedly carry out its planned mass expulsion;
wholesale destruction of towns and refugee camps; and a
higher rate of individual and collective assassinations.
Unless challenged globally, Palestinian mass transfer is
imminent. Palestine, a primary hurdle to global
domination is indeed in the crosshairs of imperial
designs.

An Empire has emerged! It is waging a global war to
redefine the boundaries of nation-states, appropriate
wealth and resources, install governments, and re-shape
policies throughout. It was Afghanistan some months ago.
It is Iraq today. There are Korea, Columbia, the
Philippines, and Palestine. The examples are too many --
Yet, who is next and where?

With every step of imposed destruction, our world is
brought closer to a global disaster and the people of the
US are pitted against the international community.

A collective answer to the drumbeat of war is a must -- we
no longer have a choice, or the luxury of time!

Busses, carpools, and delegations in the thousands are
being organized for Washington and San Francisco at
hundreds of organizing centers nationwide from coast to
coast. The movement in its entirety is united. Join, as
we collectively make history and take a step for justice
and peace!

Information on how to help and be part of this historic
march can be found on the ANSWER website:
http://www.internationalanswer.org. Visit today and
organize!

Time is of the essence!

For your immediate reference, I have also attached below a
copy of the Cairo Declaration for your review and
consideration. I urge your immediate support. To
indicate your endorsement of the Declaration, please write
to: rashmawi@sbcglobal.net

In solidarity,
Elias A. Rashmawi

------------------- Appendix -------------------

THE CAIRO DECLARATION
Against U.S. Hegemony and War on Iraq
and In Solidarity with Palestine

The international meeting organized by the Egyptian
Popular Campaign to Confront U.S Aggression was convened
in Cairo on December 18 and 19 to launch the International
Campaign.

We, the participants reaffirm our resolve to stand in
solidarity with the people of Iraq and Palestine,
recognizing that war and aggression against them is but
part of a U.S. project of global domination and
subjugation. Solidarity with Iraq and Palestine is
integral to the internationalist struggle against
neo-liberal globalization. The Cairo meeting is not an
isolated event, but an extension of a protracted
international struggle against imperialism, from Seattle
and Genoa to Lisbon and Florence, to Cordoba and Cairo.

The U.S. provides unlimited support, and even
justification, to the Zionist perpetrators of genocidal
crimes against the Palestinian people. The suffering of
the Iraqi people under a regime of genocidal sanctions
lasting over a decade, and the aggressive militarism which
they face today is but a logical outcome of the structures
of power asymmetry of the existing world order:

* The U.S. monopolizes political, economic and military
power within the framework of capitalist globalization, to
the detriment of the lives of the majority of the world's
people

* The U.S. imposes control through naked aggression and
militarized globalization in pursuit of its rulers'
interests, all while reinstating the characteristic direct
occupation of classical colonialism

* The U.S. global strategy, which was formulated prior to
September 11 2001, aims to maintain the existing uni-polar
world order, and to prevent the emergence of forces that
would shift the balance of power towards multi-polarity.
The U.S. administration has exploited the tragic events of
September 11, under the pretext of fighting terrorism, to
implement the pre-existing strategy.

Attention to this global context helps explain current
world developments:

FIRST: Capitalist Globalization and U.S. Hegemony

* prioritize the interest of monopolistic capitalist
circles above those of the people, including Europeans and
U.S. citizens.

* integrate the economies of different countries into a
single global capitalist economic system under conditions
which undermine social development and adversely affect
the situation of women, child health, education, and
social services for the elderly. In addition, unemployment
and poverty increase.

* generalize the culture of consumerism and individualism,
to the detriment of a sense of collective responsibility,
whether towards the thousands of infant and child deaths
in Iraq resulting from polluted water, malnutrition and
deficiencies in medical supplies, or towards the victims
of AIDS, malnutrition and famines around the world. Among
millions of people standards of living have deteriorated
while unemployment and poverty have become widespread.
Globalization has resulted in the marginalization of
entire peoples who could no longer acquire the basic
necessities to sustain life.

( cont)

[wrbones]

SECOND: In the absence of democracy, and with widespread
corruption and oppression constituting significant
obstacles along the path of the Arab peoples' movement
towards economic, social, and intellectual progress,
adverse consequences are further aggravated within the
framework of the existing world order of neo-liberal
globalization.

* Admission to restrictions on democratic development in
Iraq in no way constitutes acceptance of U.S.
justifications for continuation of sanctions, and now
preparations for war. Without disregarding long-standing
restrictions on democratic development in Iraqi society -
as is the case in all Arab societies - it is evident that
the U.S.-imposed sanctions have had a devastating effect
on Iraq's development. Whereas Iraq had once enjoyed a
relatively positive profile according to certain human
development indicators, its people now suffer severely as
a result of the sanctions regime. Iraq has witnessed a
significant rise in child mortality rates, the spread of
several diseases, reduction of opportunities in education,
and a marked deterioration of the standard of living. As
human suffering increases it generates a sense of
defeatism.

* The Palestinian people are suffering as a result of the
loss of their land and continued Zionist aggression, which
the U.S. supports militarily, economically, and
politically, making its administration a de facto
accomplice in the crimes committed against the Palestinian
people. The U.S. protects Israel from condemnation in
international forums under the pretext of combating
terrorism, and it asserts additional false claims, such as
when it equates the legitimate struggle of the Palestinian
people to resist occupation, liberate their land, and
return to their homes, on the one hand, with terrorism
that we all abhor, on the other.

* The policies of Structural Adjustment associated with
neo-liberal globalization have precipitated global crises
manifest in a widening wealth gap, increase in poverty and
unemployment, and general deterioration of standards of
living.

* U.S. military presence in the Arab region, and its
dictates to governments of sovereign nations of the region
has compounded the suffering of the Arab people.
Interference in the internal affairs of these nations now
extends to demands of educational reform, and insistence
on "democratization". Ironically this is occurring at a
time when civil liberties in the U.S. are clearly under
siege, especially with regard to Arab and Muslim
Americans, along with other minorities. The U.S.
administration also violates international law by its
inhumane treatment of the POWs in Guantanamo. Also evident
is the wealth gap in the U.S., which is the widest among
the industrial nations of the world.

* Far from secretly, the US intends to partition Arab
countries into smaller entities on ethnic or religious
basis. This would enable Israel to become the dominant
regional power within the framework of the Middle East
Project, to the peril of an Arab project of equitable
development and regional unity.

The suffering of the Arab people and U.S. unwavering
support of the system of apartheid imposed on the
Palestinian people, will undoubtedly fuel conflict and
lead to the escalation of violence in one of the most
sensitive areas of the world. Such danger can easily
extend to neighboring Europe, Asia and Africa. Continued
preparation for war on Iraq in spite of its acceptance of
a UN resolution of aggressive inspection of its armament,
as well as civilian industries, signals a predetermined
intent to control the Arab region, its oil and indeed the
entire world supply of oil.

THIRD: For all these reasons we declare our total
opposition to war on Iraq and our resolve to continue the
struggle against U.S. policies of global domination. We
strongly believe in the urgency of mobilizing against
these policies. All democratic forces in the world that
are for genuine Peace and Justice must join together
within the framework of an international campaign against
neo-liberal, US-centric globalization and promote an
alternate globalism based on Equity and Justice. This
would mean better utilization of the world's resources and
protection of the environment. Together the people of the
world are quite able to combat aggression and all forms of
injustice, prejudice and racism, and make a better world
possible.

The Cairo conference against war on Iraq and in solidarity
with Palestine represents the launching of an
international popular movement that creates effective
mechanisms for confronting policies of aggression. The
participation of international activists who are prominent
for their struggles for Human Dignity, Rights and Justice,
as well as intellectuals, authors, unionists, human rights
workers, journalists and artists- from Egypt and the rest
of the Arab World, Africa, Asia, Latin America, Europe,
and the United States- will no doubt accelerate this noble
endeavor in spite of the numerous obstacles that we have
to confront.

FOURTH: It is important that this international popular
initiative of solidarity with Iraq and Palestine proceed
according to an Action Plan which includes clearly defined
priorities:

1. Condemnation of U.S. military presence on Arab land
along with pressuring the Arab governments that allow U.S
military bases on their territory to close them down, and
not to provide air, naval, or land facilities

2. Develop cooperation among popular organizations of the
South to reinforce solidarity in confronting the policies
and practices of neo-liberal globalization and U.S.
hegemony

3. Work towards cooperation with the international
anti-globalization movement of the North and South, and
participation in activities and meetings organized by this
movement

4. Promote the unity of democratic forces and popular
organizations in different parts of the world, and form
solidarity committees which oppose war on Iraq, and the
genocidal crimes faced by Palestinians, supporting their
right to resistance and struggle for liberation

5. Under the banner "Together against globalization and
U.S Hegemony" add Iraq and Palestine to the agendas of
international progressive meetings, particularly the next
Social Forum at Porte Allegre

6. Invite Arab and international human rights
organizations to evaluate humanitarian conditions in Iraq
and disseminate their findings worldwide

7. Prepare to send human shields to Iraq

8. Introduce the boycott of U.S. and Israeli commodities
in solidarity campaigns in support of Iraq and Palestine,
with emphasis on the right of return for Palestinians

9. Elect a Steering Committee to follow up on the
implementation of the Cairo Declaration, and coordination
among organizations which commit to its principles, and
enhance awareness through appropriate actions ranging from
the preparation of posters to organizing marches and
demonstrations in solidarity with Iraq and Palestine

-------------------------------------

Email circulated by:
A.N.S.W.E.R.
Act Now to Stop War & End Racism

For more information about the January 18 National March
on Washington DC & joint action in San Francisco, go to
http://www.internationalanswer.org

Sign up to receive updates (low volume):
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[NamGrunt68]

BONES !! Thanks for all the hard work you are doing keeping the bro's updated and informed about these scumsuckers !!! I reckon we gonna be outnumbered and surrounded in DC, but I thinks I remember Chesty's famous words from Korea !!! " Damn Boyz, we got them Bast@rds right where we want em".........
At least thats my take on it !!!! Bless ya bro !!!

[wrbones]

Doin' what little I can, bro. Still sending out emails, too.

[wrbones]

FREE WORLDWIDE BROADCAST OF 1/18 ANTI-WAR RALLY

The Voices of Solidarity -- Satellite Uplink Project will
carry the full, 4 hour live coverage of the Saturday,
January 18, 2003 National March on Washington Against the
War in Iraq, and will uplink that coverage to satellite
for free distribution to media outlets and public access
stations in the Middle East, Asia, Europe, the United
States and worldwide. This satellite uplink is organized
by Multi-Media Group, Peace TV, Free Speech TV and World
Link working with the A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition.

The Voices of Solidarity -- Satellite Uplink Project will
bring a message of peace to millions around the world.

A UNIQUE COMBINATION OF HIGH TECHNOLOGY AND GRASSROOTS
DEMOCRACY

This is a historic undertaking of international
solidarity, a unique combination of high technology and
grassroots democracy that counters the pro-war message
being sent by the Government and the corporate media who
seek to falsely convince the world that the people of the
United States support George W. Bush in his call for
aggression against Iraq and first-strike use of nuclear
weapons and other weapons of mass destruction.

A MESSAGE OF SOLIDARITY FROM THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED
STATES TO THE WORLD

On January 18th, on the weekend commemorating the birthday
of Dr. Martin Luther King, in the tradition of the U.S.
civil rights movement, tens of thousands will assemble at
the U.S. Capitol to march against the war -- and to stand
in solidarity with our brothers and sisters around the
world who seek peace and deserve justice.

This massive demonstration is also a message of solidarity
from the grassroots, from the people of the United States
to the people who are most directly affected by the U.S.
war and interventions in Iraq and in the region. It is a
message that must be heard and seen globally, without the
editing and bias of the pro-war corporate media.

Voices of Solidarity Satellite Uplink Project will
broadcast on Saturday, Jan 18
From: 11:00 am to 3:00 pm ET -- This is: 16:00 to 20:00 GT

Within the U.S., public access stations and many
universities have the facilities to downlink this historic
demonstration. Media outlets around the world can use this
service. The 4-hour live coverage (including the rally,
march and interviews) can be down linked FREE for
immediate live broadcast or taped for later use.

THE FREQUENCIES ARE LISTED BELOW:

For U.S.A., Caribbean, Mexico, Canada
Satellite Telstar 6 K Dig, Orbital Slot 93 degrees WL,
Transponder:07-Ch A, Bandwidth:9 MHz, Uplink Freq:
14158(H), Downlink Freq: 11858 (V)

For Middle East, Europe, Africa
Satellite NSS 7, (Ku) dig, Orbital Slot 338 degrees EL,
Transponder:H8L/Ch 2, Bandwidth:9 MHz, Uplink
Freq:14447.5(V), Downlink Freq: 11657.5(H)

For Asia
Satellite PAS 2 C Dig, Orbital Slot 191 degrees WL,
Transponder:12-Ch A, Bandwidth: 9 MHz, Uplink Freq:
6242.5(V), Downlink Freq: 4017.5(H)

**********

For more information on the January 18 National March on
Washington DC and joint action in San Francisco, see
http://www.internationalanswer.org

Make a TAX-DEDUCTIBLE DONATION to help stop the war before
it starts:
http://www.internationalanswer.org/donate.html

For a list of CITIES ORGANIZING TRANSPORTATION, go to:
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/j18/j18contacts.html

Help spread the word! DOWNLOAD the NEW FLYER at
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/resources/index.html

For LOGISTICAL INFORMATION (directions, housing, parking,
etc.), go to:
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/j18/logistics.html

YOUTH & STUDENT ACTION: JAN. 18-19
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/j18/students.html

FOR MORE INFORMATION:
http://www.InternationalANSWER.org
http://www.VoteNoWar.org
dc@internationalanswer.org
New York 212-633-6646
Washington 202-332-5757
Los Angeles 213-487-2368
San Francisco 415-821-6545

Email circulated by:
A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition
(Act Now to Stop War & End Racism)

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------------------
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[wrbones]

I haven't answered him yet. I been busy with a couple other things......


First of all tell me where my logical train was
derailed. I'd like to know so that I can get it back
on track. Second making accusations that I am trying
to topple the government is very dangerous at times
like these. I and this group speak of no such action.
What we are trying to do is educate the people of this
country about the injustices we feel that our own
government are carrying out on the people of the
world. Isn't that supposed to be the foundation of
Democracy. That is people having control over their
government. Or do you see Democracy as we elect people
and thus give up all rights to what they do until the
next election? We are standing with the people of the
world against those who would deny freedom and
justice, not with the despotic leaders of nation
states such as Saddam Hussien or the Taliban. We stand
for everything opposite of what they are doing to the
people they rule. Don't confuse us. So, really I don't
see where you are getting this notion that I am
racist. Let me know so that I can correct the problem
if there is one. Don't push unfounded accuasations on
me. It is really easy to just call people names as a
way to dismiss their ideas. This is the email of a
group not one person so why should I sign my name to
it? Especially when you are claiming that I am guilty
of sedition. I retain control of my identity. As far
as the DU goes I will try and find some info for you.
I don't have time right now. One place to look is a
group called Voices in the Wilderness. I think they
have some info. I'll check on some other sources for
you if you want.

=====
NO WAR!

Let it never be said that the people of the US did nothing when their government declared an unending war on the world!

__________________________________________________

[wrbones]

This is a letter of conscience I recieved and think is important to distribute, especially to those who still think that a US invasion of Iraq is a good thing. It is important because it comes from...

[wrbones]

VETERAN SIGNERS
name, branch, years

Kelly A. Allison, Navy, 1975-1979
Ed Armas, Army, 1962-1965
Beatrice Arva, Army, 1985-1986, 1991-1993
Stephanie R. Atkinson, Army, 1984-1990
Paul L. Atwood, Marine Corps, 1965-1966
Niall Aslen, Royal Air Force, 1962-1986
Aram Attarian II, Air Force, 1965-1966
Henry Ayre, Coast Guard, 1942-1945
Tarik Aziz, Army, 1970-1975
Collin Baber, Air Force, 1994-1998
Eric Bagai, Marine Corps, 1958-1961
David E Baker, Army, 1988-1991
Norman Balabanian, Army Air Corps, 1943-1946
Russell Bates, Navy, 1967-1970
George Batton, Marine Corps
Philip L. Bereano, USPHS, 1966-1970
Anton Black, Navy, 1977-1984
Dave Blalock, Army 1968-1971
Michael Blankschen, Army, 1972-1973
David Bledsoe, Air Force, 1987-1997
Louis Block, Army, 1966-1972
Blase Bonpane, Marine Corps Reserve, 1948-1950
Charlie Bonner, Marin! e Corps, 1963-1972
Fr. Bob Bossie, SCJ, Air Force, 1955-1959
Norman Angus Bowen, Air Force, 1962-1967
Todd Boyle, Navy, 1970-1972
Horace R. Boykin, Marine Corps, 1979-1982
William P. Brandt, Army
Don Broadwell, Marine Corps, 1960-1966
Jerry Brooks, Air Force, 1956-1959
Roger W Brown, Marine Corps, 1957-1960
Bill Burkett, Army, 1971-1999
Greg Busby, Air Force, 1980-2000
Scott R. Cade, Army, 1968-1971
Rick Campos, Air Force, 1969-1971
William J. Cavanaugh, Army, 1951-1953; Army Reserve, 1953-1982
Neville Chamberlain, Army, 20 years
Fredy Champagne, Army, 1965-1966
Guy Chichester,USN 1952-1956
Russ Christensen, Army, 1950-1954
Gary A. Chipman, Army, 1970-1972
Elwood A. Chirrick, Navy, 1970-1972
Debra J. Clark, Army, 1976-1984
Rich Cohen, Army, 1963-1966
Rockney Compton, Army, 1967-1974
David Connolly, Army, 1967-1971
David Coombs, Navy, 1995-1999
James Coty, Army, 1959-1962
Dave Coull, Scotland, Briti! sh Royal Air Force,1959-1964
Davey Coull, Scotland SNP, 1939-1945
Carrol B. Cox, Air Force, 1951-1955
Mark Cox, Marine Corps, 1989-1992
Charles Craig, Navy, 1963-1965
James M. Craven, Army, 1963-1966
Charlotte Critcher, Army, 1964-1971
Milton Cunningham, Navy 1943-1945
Diane Curran, Army, 1969-1975
Candice Davis, Navy, 1974-1978
Frank M. DePaul, Navy, 1958-1961
Carl Dix, Army, 1968-1972
Burwell Dodd, Army, 1956-1958
Pete Doktor, Army, 1986-1989
Barry Donnan, British Army, 1987-1993
Pat Driscoll, Navy, 1972-1975
Kenneth Dugan, Navy, 1984-1988
John P. Echavarria, Air Force, 1965-1969
David Eldredge, Navy, 1953-1955
Jake Elkins, Marine Corps, 1965-1969
Marcus Eriksen, Marine Corps, 1985-1991
Orlando Espino, Marine Corps
Ed Everts, Air Force, 1941-1946
Mike Ferner, Navy, 1969-1973
T. Patrick Foley, Navy, 1997-2000
David J. Fonda, Army, 1968-1971
Joe Forgy, Army, 1944-1945
Dr. Ray Foster, Army, 1972! -1975
Lou Fox, Army, 1965
Dean Friend, Marine Corps, 1981-1985
India Mahdi Gamboa, Air Force, 1985-1987
John Gear, Navy, 1978-1989
Jim Gibson, Army, 1968-1970
Stanley A. Goff, Army, 1970-1996
Ernest Goitein, Army, 1943-1945
Jay R. Goodman, Army, 1969-1970
Jerry Greenberg
Todd Greenwood, Marine Corps, 1993-2001
Kev Hall, Navy, 1973-1978
Robert Charles Hamilton III, Navy, 1986-1990
Jane D. Hamm, Marine Corps, 1943-1945
John Hanscom, Air Force, 1968-1990
Bob Hanson, Army Signal Corps, 1954-1956
James F. Harrington, Air Force, 1966-1967
David Harris, Air Force, 1965-1967
Rev. Richard K. Heacock, Jr., Navy, 1944-1946
Glenn Helkenn, Army, 7 yrs
Dud Hendrick, Air Force, 1963-1967
Rodger Herbst, Army, 1969-1971
Andres Hernandez, Navy Reserve, 1979-1985
Steven A. Hessler, Air Force, 1973-1975
John Hockman, Army, 1963-1965
Walter Hrozenchik, Navy, 1951-1955
James Patrick Hynes, British Army ,1940s
Aaron I! som, Marine Corps, 1994-2000
Allen L. Jasson, Australian Army, 1972-1974
Harold B. Jamison, Air Force, 20 years
Michael L. Job, Army, 1968-1970
Ralph Johansen, Army, 3 years
Eric Edward Johansson, Army, 1989-1992
James C. Johnston, Army, 1966-1968
Eric Joyal, Army, 1989-1996
Olaniyan Kanissa'ai, Navy, 1972-1974
James Michael Kearney, Army, 1963-1965
Keith Keller, Air Force, 1966-1972
George M. Kesselring, Air Force, 1942-1963
Gerald Kessler, Air Force, 1940-1945
Talat Khan, Air Force, 1986-1992
Peretz Kidron, Israeli Defense Force, 1954-1957
Richard L. Kilgore, Marine Corps, 1965-1967
Robert A. Kinsey, Marine Corps, 1955-1961
Ronald Knarr, Marines Corps, 1950-1952
Ron Kovic, Marine Corps, 1964-1968
Raymond Krauss, Marine Corps, 1969-1972
Robert Krezewinski, Navy, 1973-1977
Marty Kunz, Navy, 1970-1976
Krystal Kyer, Navy, 1993-1997
Michael Lawton, Navy, 1962-1965
John L. Levy, Naval Reserve, 1942-1946
N! eal Liden, Navy, 1965-1969
Fred W. MacArthur, Jr., Air Force, 1958-1983
George Mariscal, Army, 1968-1970
Rela Mazali, Israel Defense Force, 1966-1968
Mark McCleary, Navy, 1996-2002
Bruce McFarland, Navy, 1982-1986
C. Andrew McGuffin, Marine Corps, 1990-1994
Teresa Media, Navy, 1972-1977
Greg Miller, Army, 1966-1968
Ronnie D. Miller, Army, 3 yrs
Will Miller, Army Security Agency, 1957-1962
Jack Minassian, Army, 1943-1945
Rob Moitoza, Navy, 1965-1971
Michael Moore, Army, 1975-1979
Paul S. Moorhead, Navy, 1943-1946
Dale L. Morgan, Air Force, 1956-1960
David Rees Morgan, British Royal Air Force, 1948-1950
Catherine Morris, Marine Corps, 1981-85 & Army National Guard, 1989-96
Rob Morris, Army, 1965-1969
Bryan Morrison, Air Force, 1994-1998
Paul Pat Morse, Air Force, 1965-1968
Charles F. Munat, Army, Navy, 1979-1985
Joanna Murphy, Army Corps of Engineers, 2 years
John L. Murray, Army, 1971-1973
John Niemi! , Army, 1968-1970
Stan Nishimura, Army, 1964-1967
Jim Northrup, Marine Corps, 1961-1966
Tom Norwood, Army, 1952-1954
Robert Nuzum, Navy, 1950-1953
John L. Opperman, Navy, 1951-1970
Ralph Osbon, 1969-1971
John J. Pagoda, Air Force, 1965-1968 and 1985-1998
Todd A. Papasadero, Army, 1983-1989
John Pappademos, Naval Reserves, 1943-1946
Jeff Paterson, Marine Corps, 1986-1990
Joe Peitte, Air Force, 1966-1969
Wilson M. Powell, Air Force, 1950-1954
Douglas Reeves, Army, 1990-1995
Don Roberts, Navy, 1978-1988
Erwin Rommel, Army, 22 yrs
Robert L. Rosenberg, Army, 1944-1946
Randy Rowland, Army, 1967-1970
Rodney A Rylander, Air Force, 1962-1967
Steven E. Saelzler, Army, 1969-1971
Lee Santa, Army, 1965-1968
William F. Santelmann, Jr., Marine Corps, Air Force Reserves, 1954-1957
Luis Manuel Santiago, Army, 6 years
Dan Scaarlett, Army, 1943-1945
Paul Schaefer, Air Force, 1960-1964
Richard Hermann Schmidt, Navy, 1957! -1960
Louis Anthony Schmittroth, Jr., Army, 1943-1956
Ken Schneider, Air Force, 1960-1964
Nikko Schoch, Army, 1968-1970
Steven R. “Kim” Scipes, Marine Corps, 1969-1973
Betty R. Scott, Navy, 1943-1945
Walter M. Scott, Army, 1960-1962
Peter B. Shaw, Marine Corps, 1951-1954
Vern Simula, Army, 1954-1956
Charles T. Smith, Army, 1969-1971
Tracey William Snyder, Navy, 1994-1998
Robert Sorrell, Navy, 1963-1967
John Steinbach, Coast Guard, 1965-1969
Robert Stephens, Marine Corps, 1966-1970
Ted Stolze, Air Force, 1979-1980
Darnell S. Summers, Army, 1966-1970
Thomas Swift, Army, 1953-1955
Harold Taggart, Air Force, 1959-1964
Toby Tahja-Syrett, Army, 1992-1996
Bruce William Taylor, Navy, 10 years
d’andre Teeter, Navy, 1965-1966
Joe Thompson, Army, 1958-1961
Edward L. Tonningsen, Army, 1943-1946
Tom Trigg, Army, 1967-1975
Joe Urgo, Air Force, 1967-1968
Gerald Waite, Army, 1967-1982
Paul J. Walker, Air Force, 19! 74-1978
Tom Ward, Air Force, 1959-1963
William H. Warrick III MD, Army Security Agency, 1968-1971
Eric Wasileski, Navy, 1993-1999
Cora Tula Watters, Marine Corps, Korean Era
Kenneth Weeks, Marine Corps, 1960-1966
Joel Wendland, Army, 1991-1993
Jerry West, Marine Corps, 1965-1970
Phillip Whitaker, Air Force, 1973-1981
Tim White, Air Force, 1966-1970
David Wiggins MD, Army, Gulf War
Sonny Williams, Army, 1966-1970
John P. Wirtz, Army, 1943-1946
James Wojtkowski, Navy, 1969-1972
Mike Wong, Army, 1969-1975
Leonard Zablow, Army, 1945-1946
Luis Zamora, Army, 1948-1971
Howard Zinn, Air Force, 1943-1945






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[Lock-n-Load]

:marine: .....Forget all the words....we had them all in a tight group today...one napalm strike...would have silenced them...all...a missed oppurtunity today in DC:marine: