Rumsfeld Grilled By The Senate [Archive] - Marine Corps

fontman

08-04-06, 08:30 AM

RUMSFELD GRILLED BY THE SENATE
By Neal Boortz

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld walked into the lion's den yesterday and testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. [video & transcript] With the war very unpopular right now, there were fireworks. Specifically, The Hildabeast decided it was time to take Rumsfeld to the woodshed, saying: "Under your leadership there have been numerous errors in judgment that have led us to where we are. We have a full-fledged insurgency and full-blown sectarian conflict in Iraq." Let's pick this one apart.

Errors in judgment? You bet. There have been numerous screw-ups by the Bush Administration in Iraq. The decision to let looters run rampant after the invasion. Perhaps not enough troops. Disbanding the entire Iraqi Army. That list goes on and on. But let's focus on this business of the "insurgency." By the way, Democrats call the Islamic terrorists in Iraq "insurgents." Small detail.

How in the world is Donald Rumsfeld to blame for the insurgency? How could anyone have predicted that Iran, Syria and Al-Qaeda would send Islamic terrorists to Baghdad to fight our troops there? The answer, of course, is that no one could have and no one really did. I suppose Hillary Clinton wasn't thinking of the insurgency when she voted to invade Iraq all the way back in 2002.

So what does Rumsfeld think we should do now? He says putting down the insurgency is the responsibility of the Iraqi people. Senators didn't like that answer either. What else do they expect? After all, these are some of the same politicians calling for us to cut and run. It's the same story....they don't like the way the Bush Administration is waging the war, but they have absolutely no idea how to do it any better.

;)

OLE SARG

08-04-06, 09:09 AM

mr hillary has about six faces it speaks from and none of them make any sense!!!!!!!!!

I hope, just hope, that the Iraqis are better in combat than the South Vietnamese!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

redneck13

08-04-06, 09:26 AM

:mad: :!: I watched her statement. She voted for the War. She can set back and criticize, yet her Blunder under her ignishkabob sex craving hubbie, "willie" of tryin' to revamp the medical field, she seems to forget. Oh how easy it is to criticize those when you're thinking of running for President. But, did she give any advice on "how to?" If she feels there's a problem?, well, I mean sheet, don't criticize, try to tear apart someone, work with them to help them find a better way. I don't like Rummy. But I thought he really clarified to the American People that this war, with us going in, it would be a struggle. And I think he did an "outstanding job" in counter-point of her critique. These Democrat's? They spit, blab, spin, criticize, bash Bush and all his people. Yet, I've not heard one, not one of them give some good "idea's" of "HOW TO HELP!!" Why? They don't know how. The houses of Congress voted for the invasion of Iraq. Then once the WMD'S weren't found in large quantities, oh boy, then the hollerin' started. WMD'S not found? I beg to differ. Our troops are now getting sick from removing "chemical" bomb shells, is this not WMD'S? So, Hillary Dillary Dumb ta dumb duh, "SHUT YOUR STUPID BLUBBERING HOLE, OR GIVE SOME ADVICE. WHAT A TRUE MAGGOT.

rktect3j

08-04-06, 10:33 AM

I hope she runs for president in 2008. A sure victory for the republicans no matter who they put on the ticket.

jinelson

08-04-06, 10:41 AM

Amen Joe I like the way you think.

yellowwing

08-04-06, 11:11 AM

By the way, Democrats call the Islamic terrorists in Iraq "insurgents." Small detail.
Beg to differ Mr Boortz
VP Cheney May 20 (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/30/cheney.iraq/), 2005

"I think we may well have some kind of presence there over a period of time," Cheney said. "The level of activity that we see today from a military standpoint, I think, will clearly decline. I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency."
Small detail. :banana:

marinegreen

08-04-06, 12:48 PM

Lets face facts people, The last few yrs. both parties have slowly fuqed up our world as we know it, its all about $$, greed and the almighty power, not for one min. haved they tried to correct alot of our own problems. Roads,power grids,air,water,health care,senior citizens,education,our borders, blah,blah,blah are all lacking,where's the frigging $$ going that they are always talking about ?

Mike McIntyre

08-04-06, 01:17 PM

Marinegreen,
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
I have to agree. We have a two party system: Bad & Worse? Get elected at any cost and stay in power at any cost. Bash the other side even if you agree with them. Mean while we have boots on the ground, levees like Swiss cheese, terrorist rocketing our allies, the youth crime rate is out of sight; the same country that was giving us Hell when I was in college now wants nukes, and an energy policy that has not changed in 30 years.
<o:p></o:p>
Democrats or Republicans – We need a change!

Osotogary

08-04-06, 01:17 PM

where's the frigging $$ going that they are always talking about ?

Probably into some glad handing State, Local or Federal bureaucratic cronie's "administrative costs" pocket.

Mike McIntyre

08-04-06, 01:24 PM

Ole Sarg

"We definitely need ole Harry in the Congress today. Look at the corruption with jefferson (we all keep 90,000 cash in our freezers, yeh, right) - He's a ******* thief and a crook and us tax-payers are still paying his ass for doing nothing except get bribed!!!!!!!!!!!
l can't buy the story that the FBI could not conduct that investigation. The damn crook was asked to cooperate and to turn over certain documents and he didn't. BUST HIS ASS!!!!!!! Is Congress going to be a haven for crooks and thieves (probably already is)??????????????????????????"

DITTO!

rktect3j

08-05-06, 07:27 AM

Damm. Your not too one sided there are you. Clinton got a blow job. You think that was his biggest problem. Paaleeease. Give the spin machine a rest before you break it.

fontman

08-05-06, 07:38 AM

August 03, 2006
Clinton and Rumsfeld Face Off
Senate Armed Services Committee

(The following is an exchange between Senator Hillary Clinton and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld at the Senate Armed Services Committee Hearing on Iraq & Afghanistan)

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: Under your leadership, there have been numerous errors in judgment that have led us to where we are in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have a full-fledged insurgency and full- blown sectarian conflict in Iraq. Now, whether you label it a civil war or not, it certainly has created a situation of extreme violence and the continuing loss of life among our troops and of the Iraqis.

You did not go into Iraq with enough troops to establish law and order. You disbanded the entire Iraqi army, now we're trying to re-create it. You did not do enough planning for what is called "phase four" and rejected al the planning that had been done previously to maintain stability after the regime was overthrown. You underestimated the nature and strength of the insurgency, the sectarian violence, and the spread of Iranian influence.

In Afghanistan, your administration's credibility is also suspect. In December of 2002, you said the Taliban are gone. In September of 2004, President Bush said the Taliban no longer is in existence. However, this February, DIA director, Lieutenant General Maples, said that in 2005 attacks by the Taliban and other anti-coalition forces were up 20 percent from 2004 levels, and these insurgents were a greater threat to the Afghan government's efforts to expand its authority that at any time since 2001.

So, Mr. Secretary, when our constituents ask for evidence that your policy in Iraq and Afghanistan will be successful, you don't leave us with much to talk about. Yes, we hear a lot of happy talk and rosy scenarios, but because of the administration's strategic blunders and frankly, the record of incompetence in executing, you are presiding over a failed policy. Given your track record, Secretary Rumsfeld, why should we believe your assurances now?

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: My goodness. First, I've tried to make notes and to follow the prepared statement you've presented. First of all, it's true, there is sectarian conflict in Iraq and there is a loss of life, and it's a unfortunate and tragic thing that that's taking place.

Second, you said the number of troops were wrong. I guess history will make a judgment on that. The idea that the army was disband, I think is one that's kind of flying around. My impression is that to a great extent the army disband itself.

Third, the assertion that the government rejected all the planning that had been done before is just simply false. That's not the case. Afghanistan, I don't know who said what about whether the Taliban are gone, but in fact the Taliban that were running Afghanistan and ruling Afghanistan were replaced and they were replaced by an election that took place in that country, and in terms of a government or a governing entity, they were gone. And that's a fact. Are there still Taliban around? You bet. Are they occupying safe havens in Afghanistan and other places -- or correction, in Pakistan and other places? Certainly, they are. Does the violence -- is the violence up? Yes.

Does the violence tend to be up during the summer and spring, summer and fall months? Yes, it does and tends to decline during the winter period. Is it a -- does that represent failed policy? I don't know. I would say not. Are there setbacks? Yes. Are there things people can't anticipate? Yes. Does the enemy have a brain and continue to make adjustments on the ground requiring our forces to continue to make adjustments? You bet. Is that going to continue to be the case? I think so. Is this problem going to get solved in the near term about this long struggle against violent extremism? No, I don't think it is. I think it's going to take some time so I would disagree strongly with your statement.

CLINTON: Well, Mr. Secretary, I know you would and I know you feel strongly about it, but there's a track record here. This is not 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 when you appeared before this committee and made many comments and presented, you know, many assurances that have frankly proven to be unfulfilled and.

RUMSFELD: Senator, I don't think that's true. I have never painted a rosy picture. I've been very measured in my words and you have a dickens of a time trying to find instances where I've been excessively optimistic. I understand this is tough stuff.

10thzodiac

08-05-06, 07:45 AM

What do you see else about Clinton? That he lied under oath about getting a blow job?

What else?

Let me ask you this, and I would appreciate some yes or no answers.

Did you -personally- know that:

Nixon's Attorney General went to prison?

Nixon himself ordered the Watergate break-in?

Bush 41 pardoned 5 senior officials, including a former SecDef, for multiple felony convictions?

That Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rhenquist worked for Nixon?

That Rumsfeld was personally involved in the incident at Koh Tang Island in 1975? That was better known as the Mayaquez incident.

Did you -know- ANY of those data?

If you did not, you are abdicating your responsibility as a citizen of this country, because only -informed- people can act as true citizens.

Walt

Semper Fidelis
:usmc:

10thzodiac

08-05-06, 08:06 AM

Why should the SecDef be allowed to lie to the Senate?

The government can't function -- the American Republic is dead-- unless people care more about these issues.

Walt

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
Edward Abbey
:iwo:

rktect3j

08-05-06, 08:18 AM

What do you see else about Clinton? That he lied under oath about getting a blow job?

What else?

Typical liberal bait and switch tactics. Did you see me say one word about anything else other then your one-sided spin on Clinton? Hell no. So lets keep on topic now, eh. Clinton is apparently your sainted boy, right. Done nothing wrong. Made no mistakes. He is your spiritual leader of sorts. So I'll just post this link.

http://users.aol.com/beachbt/index.html

Here is a blurg to what you might find there.

"The military madness isn't just with our nuclear readiness. It reaches into every facet of our military. Clinton has cut our military strength by over half in 6 years. Damage which will take a decade to recover from, since some of the personnel and resources cannot be replaced quickly. Not everyone is taking this lying down. Recently, two dozen of our military's top generals resigned en masse in protest. What, you didn't hear about that? No, of course not, because it was covered up. The Clinton administration blackmailed those generals into keeping their mouths shut, and then covered up the resignations. Just business as usual in the Clinton administration."

rktect3j

08-05-06, 08:22 AM

How about any of this.

http://members.tripod.com/~GOPcapitalist/clinton-scandals.html

Mike McIntyre

08-05-06, 08:51 AM

RHTECT3J

They are trying to suck you in. I am a wannabee and do not know any better but you on the otherhand were RECON. Know your enemy!

God speed.

rktect3j

08-05-06, 08:58 AM

Here is the problem with this type of person.
He thinks his party is without sin or at the very least refuses to fess up to his parties problems while blaming the other side. I am a registered republican and can tell you that Bush and his administration has screwed some things up. Sure their is some corruption around as well. But it isn't a one party problem. We are talking about politicians, most of whom are lawyers. In other words, criminals, which we have elected into office. The whole of or history of Americas problems do not rest on the republican parties shoulders. Weren't the dems in power for something like 40 years within the last 60 years or some such? Was there not any problems in those days? DO I sit here and tell the world it is the fault of the left that we are in the situation we are in today. That is a rediculous fighting position sure to get you and your platoon killed.

Mike McIntyre

08-05-06, 09:12 AM

AMEN!

Their entire Party (except Zell Miller) would sell America out just to get back in power but a few Elephants would also.

Just remeber what their mascot is. America does not start wars we finish them.

marinegreen

08-05-06, 09:51 AM

What slays me is when they say it takes time to train the Iraqi police forces and there military, *******-it how long do they need,its been dang near 3 1/2 yrs, could you imagine what our country would be like after 6mths if'en we couldnt get people trained. What are they gonna say 6 yrs down the road from now when there still training them.They dont tell you how alot of these so called police and Iraqi soliders are taliban, how alot lay down there weapons cuz there to scared, chit folks we arent going anywhere. Plus we gotta stay there to make sure we keep the Israels stocked with weaponry cuz its gonna be a long drawn out war also, yeppers we're there to stay so get ready to see our yung'ens doing 4,5,6,7 and 8 tours.SF

redneck13

08-05-06, 10:16 AM

:mad: :p :idea: hasn't been spun around? WP? You have good points. But, what did Hillary do to help? All she did was put down the administration, Rumsfeld. Did she give any resolution as to what she would/would've done? What course to take now? What or how she and her party would do to end this? I didn't hear that, nor have I heard it coming from the other side, if you will. She was a supporter of Rumsfeld, and she voted for the War. I'm not in a position where I have the tool's, the advice as do they, the President, Vice President, Sec. Condi. Do you? No blogs, no sites, you tell us, as you say we're not well "informed", of what "YOU WOULD DO TO END THIS WAR?" "WHAT WOULD YOU DO AS SEC. OF DEFENSE?" Help us, ill-informed, un-informed people understand, as it's apparent you have the answer's to everything. Can you do this?
No, I dislike Rumsfeld. I do think, though the President, as any President, as we only get the "bad" crap, has what Bush has, deep rooted feelings, "to keep America safe, America's interest safe, the World safe. He's not without feelings. Hillary well, she's running for President, God Forbid for her election, she's going to say all she can, not giving people her voting record outwardly, to try and win over the hearts and minds of the American People. America has to support, defend, do whatever it takes to stop terror, it's been this way for centuries. No matter the incident, America has to protect the world. As we're the only one's who can.

Mike McIntyre

08-05-06, 10:17 AM

Teach on Professor Zodiac & Whiskey Papa:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Ya’ll (Southern for you all) should be professors. Your Post Modern interpretation of History is right on track. I am sure that you would do Outstanding on the Lecture Circuit or even a Tenured Position at a University. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I am taking notes. This is better than online classes. I for one must admit that my education has been totally worthless. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Can I get a syllabus and a copy of your notes for further reference? Or do I need to contact Howard Dean at the DNC?

redneck13

08-05-06, 10:30 AM

You make a good point. Except what you don't hear in the mainstream media outlet's, is the problem we have trying to understand. The US has successfully trained a boat load of troops, and if you...

Mike McIntyre

08-05-06, 10:39 AM

So true, Wind in Face.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
What choice do we have? We can be pro-active or reactionary. If History is any indication, WE WILL HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Pay me now or pay me later but pay me!

Mike McIntyre

08-05-06, 10:51 AM

:sick: “Unfortunately, there don't seem to be many real Americans around any more.”<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
SOOOOOO TRUE!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Your Words. You made our point.<o:p></o:p>

redneck13

08-05-06, 10:54 AM

Oh, you are the only one who "thinks?" "GIVE ME A BREAK!!"All I hear from you and your "POD" is rhetoric. "GIVE ME SOLUTIONS", NOT PROPAGANDA FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW. This way, I can better prepare myself for the next election. If we don't stop the war on terror, which includes tribes fighting and killing each other?, the world will be still at risk. War is war. People get killed. It's not good. But I don't want their ultimate sacrifice to be for naught. I support what is "RIGHT" not what some other goofy idealogical b.s. comes from what, "abc" news? One if not the most one sided news organization's in the world. "AGAIN....SHOW US, TEACH US, GIVE US, "YOUR SOLUTION TO THE END OF THE WAR IN IRAQ, since we "DON'T THINK!!
Clinton is not the issue.

He has not, through gross incompetence, gotten us 2,600 KIA, that many again maimed, and 15,000 + WIA.

Clinton is not in power.

Bush is. Cheney is. Rumsfeld is.

We have a DISASTER in Iraq that was entirely foreseen. Everything that has happened in Iraq was predicted.

Everything.

How can you support these horrible scumbags?

Because you don't think.

Walt

Mike McIntyre

08-05-06, 10:59 AM

I am not trying to be ugly. Please, don’t tell us what mistakes GW Bush has made or the Republican Part.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
What the entire voting public wants to know is, “What the heck is the DNC going to do?”<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Don’t drink the Kool Ade.<o:p></o:p>

marinegreen

08-05-06, 11:05 AM

Goddam***, I had a chit load of a comment I posted and it made me relog,burns my nads. Sooo instead of letting loose again I'll just say this, 1 chunk of heavy metal down the pipes would have prevented billons of $$ spent in a area thats been fighting amongst themselves for ohh 1300 yrs.We have known about terrorist for 30+yrs and we sat by the wayside. We need to clean house on all these corrupt fuqers we call politicians, both parties suq,END OF STORY !! SF

redneck13

08-05-06, 11:32 AM

[/COLOR][/SIZE]

If you thought at all, you'd be ready to impeach Bush and Cheney and get them in prison for treason.
"YOU SHOULD RUN FOR A POLITICAL OFFICE. YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION. LEAVE OUT THE IGNORANCE OF IMPEACHMENT/CRIMINAL/TREASON, YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT, HOW WOULD YOU RUN THE WAR DIFFERENTLY? DON'T SPIN IT. ANSWER THE DAT BLAME QUESTION, OH WISE ONE. HEEEHEEE....I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS REPLY.....
As I have indicated, my solution is to re-deploy the Hell out of Iraq while the getting is good. Re-depoy out and continue the war on Islamic fundamentalism from a position of maneuver and strength.

When I say that, I am paraphrasing a former Marine officer and SecNav, James Webb:

WEBB: Because international terrorism really moved in a dramatic way
from a regional problem to a global problem. We saw that we had to
step to the forefront. We had all the nations of the world with us
after 9/11. And we systematically alienated a huge percentage of the
world at a time we needed their cooperation. We tied down our military
in static positions when we had developed, for 10 or 15 years, we had
worked on a maneuverable military. And now we dumped them into static positions. So it is a bad idea in terms of international politics, a
bad idea in terms of grand strategy, and a bad idea in how to use the
military."

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.aviation.military/browse_frm/thread/741fa3eb7db36723/35a145f0cb29c8fa?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#35a145f0cb29c8fa

Walt[/QUOTE]

marinegreen

08-05-06, 11:32 AM

Why is it,its always "WE" will this and "WE" will that, look at the Iraqi coalition casualities and were tops on the list,wheres Tony blairs peeps,why do we think we need to carry the load on our...

redneck13

08-05-06, 11:39 AM

Well there you have it folks,,,,,,"RUN, GET OUT, LET TERROR RAIN DOWN AGAIN." DAT BURN, THAT IS SO GREAT!!" WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THIS? I guess you're right WP, running is the best answer, and I guess I don't think at all. ELECT WP FOR PRESIDENT!! oh MY SURE YOU GOOGLE.
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

If you thought at all, you'd be ready to impeach Bush and Cheney and get them in prison for treason.
"YOU SHOULD RUN FOR A POLITICAL OFFICE. YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION. LEAVE OUT THE IGNORANCE OF IMPEACHMENT/CRIMINAL/TREASON, YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT, HOW WOULD YOU RUN THE WAR DIFFERENTLY? DON'T SPIN IT. ANSWER THE DAT BLAME QUESTION, OH WISE ONE. HEEEHEEE....I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS REPLY.....
As I have indicated, my solution is to re-deploy the Hell out of Iraq while the getting is good. Re-depoy out and continue the war on Islamic fundamentalism from a position of maneuver and strength.

When I say that, I am paraphrasing a former Marine officer and SecNav, James Webb:

WEBB: Because international terrorism really moved in a dramatic way
from a regional problem to a global problem. We saw that we had to
step to the forefront. We had all the nations of the world with us
after 9/11. And we systematically alienated a huge percentage of the
world at a time we needed their cooperation. We tied down our military
in static positions when we had developed, for 10 or 15 years, we had
worked on a maneuverable military. And now we dumped them into static positions. So it is a bad idea in terms of international politics, a
bad idea in terms of grand strategy, and a bad idea in how to use the
military."

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.aviation.military/browse_frm/thread/741fa3eb7db36723/35a145f0cb29c8fa?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#35a145f0cb29c8fa

Walt[/QUOTE]

OLE SARG

08-05-06, 11:40 AM

Walt,
You get right down to it, Washington is FULL of scumbags!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TO include both parties - politics nowadays is a ****ing joke. jefferson's a damn good example of that AND the lack of action by the AG.
Too bad ken lay died, he would have been on the Bush pardon list!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

redneck13

08-05-06, 11:44 AM

"WELL WP/SARG/ "I GUESS YOU JUST CAN'T FIX STUPID" With all due respect, not calling you two stupid, just overall things about this mess. I'm gone......
Well there you have it folks,,,,,,"RUN, GET OUT, LET TERROR RAIN DOWN AGAIN." DAT BURN, THAT IS SO GREAT!!" WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THIS? I guess you're right WP, running is the best answer, and I guess I don't think at all. ELECT WP FOR PRESIDENT!! oh MY SURE YOU GOOGLE.[/QUOTE]

marinegreen

08-05-06, 11:47 AM

HEY P. The only terror that should have rained down from the GITTY-UP is us sending one down the pipes. They BIT** slapped us hard and we've pussie footed around with them. Hopefully if it happens again(and it will,cuz we'll drop our guard)where as someone gets stupid on us we will lob a chunk that causes that famous MUSHROOM CLOUD !! I myself am sic and tired of these 3rd world countries throwing dookie in our faces.

10thzodiac

08-05-06, 01:02 PM

Anyone who knows anything about Arab culture knows you can train them for 100 years and it would do no good.

That is because thecentral themes of their culture make a person averse to taking responsibility for your actions, sticking with your buddies, or having any loyalty other than to family and clan.

That's just -one- reason that Bush and his handlers are criminally incompetent. These facts were well known before we hit Iraq.

What the neo-conservatives who run Bush did was to gamble that the "Iraqis" would be loyal to Iraq over their family, clan and sect. That was ALWAYS a crap shoot with a low probability of success.

And you don't commit troops based on crap shoots.

Of course the Bushies may not be that stupid. It could be that for some reason, they wanted us to fail.

And again -- I said this on another thread -- has the Marine Corps -not- done everything that loyalty, and devotion to duty COULD do?

Is it the Marine Corps' fault, or the Army's?

No. It is the fault of the people at the very top of the government -- Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Walt

Captain, with "highly intelligent" citizen soldiers (Marines) like you I have confidence America will survive! ~ 10thZodiac

Thank you!:thumbup:

SF

003XXMarineDAD

08-05-06, 01:25 PM

by 10thZodiac - Captain, with "highly intelligent" citizen soldiers (Marines) like you I have confidence America will survive! ~ 10thZodiac

GOD HELP US, I pray my son never has two like you leading him in to battle. If he did he had better have his GO FASTERS ON.

rktect3j

08-05-06, 02:00 PM

The essense of being a real American, going back to the founding of the country is the equality of every American. You're the president? BFD.

Americans back at the time of the revolution were very skeptical of authoritarianism. Of class meaning a damned thing.

Walt
What I want to say is you are either grossly uneducated or just plain brain washed if you believe this. But I will instead just say that I think this menuscha is rediculous spin which I can't blame either side for pushing. Americans want to believe that, but the truth....

Social standing was a high priority. Don't be fooled by the pretenses they pushed out in order to have backing by the people. Our founding fathers wanted power and control and class standings. Your revisionist history is not the real America.

OLE SARG

08-05-06, 02:05 PM

I agree Joe, look at the group of "politicians" we have on the hill in DC today. What we have is a hill full of self-serving, holier than thou, greedy, *******s!!!! They all made promises and agreements they will never keep just to get elected.

SEMPER FI, :mad:

rktect3j

08-05-06, 02:09 PM

Clinton is not the issue.

He has not, through gross incompetence, gotten us 2,600 KIA, that many again maimed, and 15,000 + WIA.

Clinton is not in power.

Bush is. Cheney is. Rumsfeld is.

We have a DISASTER in Iraq that was entirely foreseen. Everything that has happened in Iraq was predicted.

Everything.

How can you support these horrible scumbags?

Because you don't think.

Walt
At this point CLinton is the issue between you and I in regards to this thread. You brought him up as a talking/selling point. Remember this.

Unfortunately, there is not a nickle's worth of difference between the two major parties. I'd say that the Repubs have led the way in corruption. Cheney and Rumsfeld both worked for Nixon. So did Chief Justice Rhenquist, now deceased.

Nixon of course was fabulously corrupt. One of the things Nixon did was have the CIA attemot to disrupt the FBI. Good grief. His attorney general -- senior law enforcement officer in the country -- actually served time in prision. That was John Mitchell.

It has also now been shown that Nixon himself ordered the break-in to the Democratic Party HQ at the Watergate hotel.

Under Reagan, 14 senior officials were convicted of felonies relating to what was called the Iran/Contra affair. Bush 41 had to pardon 5 of them at Christmas time, 1992. This included SecDef Weinberger.

Bush 43 and his people are even worse. Likie I say, some of the most senior architects of our policy (Cheney and Rumsfeld) worked for Nixon. At least Nixon's people were not as grossly incompetent as our senior leaders are now.

Yeah, I know. Clinton got a blow job.

But it ALL comes down to the people. We are going to get the government we deserve.

Walt
For the sake of this argument I am going to concede each and every fact you made. Whcih leaves us with your opinions, cleverly placed inside this spin, designed to look like facts. Which brings us to the "Clinton got a blow job" to which I supplied you with 2 sites showing scandal upon scandal.

Now I know it ain't popular to claim that Clinton had many opportunities to nab Osama but lets face it. Had Clinton taken Osama there would not be a 9/11. SO lets blame the real culprit here. Talk about a snafu as long as we are armchair quarterbacking. We all know it was billyboys fault. If bill didn't screw up we wouldn't have any of this mess. WHo is to blame here Bush for having to fix the situation or the prior administration of the "live and let live all is well at home" policy-trust me I took a poll.

rktect3j

08-05-06, 02:13 PM

Anyone who knows anything about Arab culture knows you can train them for 100 years and it would do no good.

Walt
I hate to give you anything but on this point I will agree with you. I was there 15 years ago and we tried to train the Saudis for about a month on tactics. These people just either do not care or couldn't comprehend basics. Maybe they were just the illiterates who joined their military, I don't know. But they were sorry and that is a high compliment.

rktect3j

08-05-06, 02:22 PM

America sure as hell started a war in Iraq, lad.

It is ludicrous to say that the Democrats are generally any less loyal to the country than the Republicans.

What the Dems have done, I feel, to get a bad reputation is support gay rights, abortion rights and minority rights. That doesn't mean that they don't love the country.

Don't forget it was Democratic presidents who took us into World War I, World War II, Korea and Viet Nam. It was Democratic Congresses that funded 1,000 ICBM's, 600 B-52's, 41 SSBM submarines -- the whole modern establishment.

These are facts that you are not considering.

Walt
You supply only half of the facts. Those you like and then hope and pray someone else does not supply the other half. You come off intellectually dishonest in your attempts.

10thzodiac

08-05-06, 02:28 PM

GOD HELP US, I pray my son never has two like you leading him in to battle. If he did he had better have his GO FASTERS ON.

Speaking for myself, at least your son wouldn't being fighting, dieing and getting wounded for an oil well in IRAQ in a loosing war, like Vietnam.

Our children & their children would fight only for the "Bill of Rights" and our shores, never overseas to protect foreign investments of wealthy Americans!

SF

rktect3j

08-05-06, 02:31 PM

For something like six years I spent a lot of time talking politics with the left on internet chat forums. What I really found was this. When talking to extremists (liberals or neocons) you will never get an honest argument. The reason is simple. These people are as I have stated before intellectually dishonest. They don't care about the entire picture, only the part that paints their side pretty. It is a matter for them to convert as many to their side no matter what. You get half of the facts or worse half-truths. They quote the crap out of persons in power or authority to only their advantage and it does not matter if they are taken out of context. One sentance out of fifty is fine with them. They post only choice pieces of reality while ignoring the rest of the facts. Then when confronted they will do a bait and switch on you. Their little game of misdirection. After six years I finally left. Now I find them creeping in here. What good are you doing with your propaganda?

rktect3j

08-05-06, 02:35 PM

Speaking for myself, at least your son wouldn't being fighting, dieing and getting wounded for an oil well in IRAQ in a loosing war, like Vietnam.

Our children & their children would fight only for the "Bill of Rights" and our shores, never overseas to protect foreign investments of wealthy Americans!

SF
Your utopian America does not exist. Not under dems or repubs. Not yesterday, today or tomorrow. It is an illusion only a few can see. Count yourself unfortunate.

10thzodiac

08-05-06, 03:04 PM

Your utopian America does not exist. Not under dems or repubs. Not yesterday, today or tomorrow.
It is an illusion only a few can see. Count yourself unfortunate.

"If you are going to dream, dream big!"

rktect3j, let me dream big! ~ 10thZodiac

SF

P.S. My, sentiments exactly, they would making voting illegal if it really changed anything who got in the White house!

003XXMarineDAD

08-05-06, 04:17 PM

10thzodiac

08-05-06, 04:52 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/jinelson/79f0073d.jpg

This is a photo of what my son says we are fighting for over in Iraq. This is giving those Iraqi children a chance at Freedom for which they have had no idea of what it is but if we help them they will. Is this a dream , Maybe but it is worth fighting for in my opinion. This photo was taken by my son and it is boots on the ground and shows me that it is worth the chance. To cut and run now would make all the propaganda that they use about blood for oil would have been true.

I learned a long time ago, you can't save the world, there are children around this globe just as beautiful that desperately need help. But that is a miracle not of this earth to help them all. In a small example the children of Sudan, Ethiopia, Romania, Haiti, and the 300,000 families who live in my state, Illinois that have children that live on $10,000 or less per year. Our government is spending 9 Billion dollars a month in trying to subdue crazies in Iraq. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out how 9 Billion could be really spent to help children...or am I all wet?

SF

jinelson

08-05-06, 05:29 PM

10thzodiac

08-05-06, 08:21 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/jinelson/CautionThread.jpg

Yes that could mean that we could contribute that 9 billion dollars to the welfare state, we could hire 500,000 bureaucrats at $100,000 plus hefty early federal retirement a year to administer the funding so that the poor could all enjoy utopia on an extra $100 bucks a year. As Hildabeast says it takes a village to raise a child or burn that village to the ground.

How about our village idiots just keep giving our money to companies that profit from our enemies instead? Like when it was discovered that Motorola chips were being used in Communist Chinese anti-personnel mines used in Vietnam against us or General Electric who supplied the Italian mine producer Tecnovar Italiana with chemicals for the anti-personnel mines that are being used against Americans in Iraq now. Is that the kind of Utopia you want instead of helping children?

http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/mines/IV.4.renouncing.html
http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/mines/IV.3.ge.html

Maybe Ole Lenin was on to something after all: "A capitalist will sell you the rope to hang him with." ~ Lenin

003XXMarineDAD

08-05-06, 08:40 PM

How about our village idiots just keep giving our money to companies that profit from our enemies instead? Like when it was discovered that Motorola chips were being used in Communist Chinese anti-personnel mines used in Vietnam against us or General Electric who supplied the Italian mine producer Tecnovar Italiana with chemicals for the anti-personnel mines that are being used against Americans in Iraq now. Is that the kind of Utopia you want instead of helping children?

http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/mines/IV.4.renouncing.html
http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/mines/IV.3.ge.html

Maybe Ole Lenin was on to something after all: "A capitalist will sell you the rope to hang him with." ~ Lenin

My point is that My son is doing something to help the cause of freedom in Iraq.
The one thing I do see that anyone that could qoute Lenin and the DNC talking points so well has a problem with reality. :bunny:

rktect3j

08-05-06, 08:46 PM

My point is that My son is doing something to help the cause of freedom in Iraq.
The one thing I do see that anyone that could qoute Lenin and the DNC talking points so well has a problem with reality. :bunny:
I believe that quote comes with the DNC recruiting pamphlet.

rktect3j

08-05-06, 08:49 PM

I believe that quote comes with the DNC recruiting pamphlet.
Also, he wants utopia. He just doesn't want to pay for it.

junker316

08-06-06, 02:05 AM

Ole Rummy and his side kicks are definitely to blame here. He has done little except to pick sites of known terrorism to rebuild Iraq. He hasn't held one agreement that he made with the Iraqi Government. And in the end he has also had a hand in causng the increase of insurgents joing up to fight off Americans and the rest of the nations in Iraq by babbbling lies and not holding promises. So how does he come clean....by claiming now " it is up to the Iraqi Army to cleanse Iraq " that a year or so ago said that the Iraqi would never be able to withstand a direct attack from the terrorists without buckling and running home screaming and crying. Rummy is a man with a thousand faces. I met him personally while deployed and his excuses aew simple...you joined of your own free will to defend America and Americans interests...but when asked what Iraq has to do with it all and what interests Iraq has for America he gives a BS answer. When reminded that is was the takiban that caused the Twin Towers to drop and not the Al-Quaidi as he is so solem to say...he just turns around to ask a " yes man " if that it true. He doesn't hold facts he holds fantasy. He described to Marines what he thought we were doing there...providing secruity for the Iraqi public and protecting the intersts of America. I haven't seen gas prices go down since Katrina hit...nor have I seen any American Owned Oil Rigs in Iraq...nor have I seen a real way to protect the citizens of Iraq from suicide bombers or indirect fire. So maybe Rumsfeld had better get another scotch on the rocks before making another total ass of himself.

10thzodiac

08-06-06, 08:33 AM

Also, he wants utopia. He just doesn't want to pay for it.

<DT>And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." <DD>-- Dubya quoting himself on his first reaction to seeing an airliner piloted into the World Trade Center, Orlando, Florida, Dec. 4, 2001
</DD>

fontman

08-06-06, 03:04 PM

Anybody want to step up to the plate and nominate themself to be the next SecDef?

Didn't think so...

Carry on, fellow Jarheads.

:evilgrin:

10thzodiac

08-06-06, 04:33 PM

Anybody want to step up to the plate and nominate themself to be the next SecDef?

Didn't think so...

Carry on, fellow Jarheads.

I'd give my nod for "Captain Whiskey Papa" at a confirmation hearing. He's articulate, intelligent, passionate in his beliefs, a constitutionalist, has guts and a United States Marine, what more could you ask for? :thumbup:

fontman

08-06-06, 04:39 PM

10thzodiac

08-06-06, 05:03 PM

http://www.thefontman.com/rotflmao.gif

<DT>Then I went for a run with the other dog and just walked. And I started thinking about a lot of things. I was able to -- can't remember what it was. Oh, the inaugural speech, started thinking through that.<DT><DT><DT><DD>-- Pre-inaugural interview, U.S. News & World Report, Jan. 22, 2001<DT>REPORTER: Mr. President, you've made it a practice of not commenting on potential personnel moves --
DUBYA: Of course I did.
REPORTER: -- of calling it speculation --
DUBYA: You can understand why --
REPORTER: But on five --
DUBYA: -- because we've got people's reputations at stake. And on Friday I stood up and said I don't appreciate the speculation about Don Rumsfeld. He's doing a fine job. I strongly support him.
REPORTER: But what do you say to critics who believe that you're ignoring the advice of retired generals, military commanders, who say that there needs to be a change?
DUBYA: I say, I listen to all voices, but mine's the final decision. And Don Rumsfeld is doin' a fine job.

<DD>-- Dubya gets testy in his defense of Don Rumsfeld. For full effect, listen to the audio clip. White House, Apr. 18, 2006 http://www.dubyaspeak.com/images/swf.gif (http://javascript:open_flash())http://www.dubyaspeak.com/images/rm.gif (http://javascript:open_real())

</DD>

rktect3j

08-06-06, 06:29 PM

I'd give my nod for "Captain Whiskey Papa" at a confirmation hearing. He's articulate, intelligent, passionate in his beliefs, a constitutionalist, has guts and a United States Marine, what more could you ask for? :thumbup:
You can sure tell a lot from looking at 17 posts on an internet chat forum. Or maybe you just like his overall agenda as it mirrors yours. Take the blinders off man.

rktect3j

08-06-06, 06:47 PM

REPORTER: But what do you say to critics who believe that you're ignoring the advice of retired generals, military commanders, who say that there needs to be a change?
What I like about this is how it attempts to show that Bush doesn't talk to any "experts" unless they are on the left. There are thousands of retired generals and military commanders who did not get contacted by Bush. But he did consult many people on this, you can be certain of that. Sorry that Murtha got all offended he wasn't one of them. Maybe he just don't rate. I just really like the dishonest attempt by the left to try and discredit our leader with this type of question. What a bunch of phonies.

junker316

08-06-06, 08:06 PM

Sure as hell would...the difference is that I seen the reality while he watched from a distance. He is more than willing to " rescue " a city but then leave it open to more insurgents to re-occupy. ...

junker316

08-06-06, 08:16 PM

The only ones that Bush talked to or listened to was the suckasses that back his revenge attempt on Saddam. Did you forget the Assination attempt on the first Pres Bush?????? While this Pres at the...

rktect3j

08-06-06, 08:36 PM

So many unreasonable hateful people. No time to fix them. For the extremists in this country I have nothing to give. You and yours are not part of the solution but part of the problem. 2008 will hopefully wash you away.

10thzodiac

08-06-06, 10:06 PM

SF:thumbup:

rktect3j

08-07-06, 07:53 AM

"The only ones that Bush talked to or listened to was the suckasses that back his revenge attempt on Saddam. Did you forget the Assination attempt on the first Pres Bush?????? "

SF:thumbup:
Hold on. Ah, there it is. Got it. My tinfoil hate. Wait, I'll put it on. OK.
Yeah, now it all makes sense to me. The brainwaves are really functioning now. Conspiracy theories. Love em. Man this makes all the sense in the world.

Mike McIntyre

08-07-06, 11:18 AM

<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600">
http://www.hastingsmuseum.org/exhibitions/kaexhibit/kaexhibit-ban.jpg

Drink up people. All the Democrats want is to regain power. And most Republicans want to retain power. The original Government was designed for Armature Politicians NOT Professionals. Ask yourselves one question, “Why would a multimillionaire want a job that paid so little?”

Here in lies the problem!

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

</v:shapetype>

10thzodiac

08-07-06, 11:41 AM

<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype class=inlineimg id=_x0000_t75 title="Stick Out Tongue" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f" smilieid="6" alt="" border="0" src="http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif" o<img></v:shapetype>referrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600">
http://www.hastingsmuseum.org/exhibitions/kaexhibit/kaexhibit-ban.jpg

Drink up people. All the Democrats want is to regain power. And most Republicans want to retain power. The original Government was designed for Armature Politicians NOT Professionals. Ask yourselves one question, “Why would a multimillionaire want a job that paid so little?”

Here in lies the problem!

<O:p></O:p>

That's very good!

SF

:thumbup:

Mike McIntyre

08-07-06, 11:56 AM

This is scary. We agree on something!

But we MUST support the "Boots on the Ground"

10thzodiac

08-07-06, 01:55 PM

This is scary. We agree on something!

But we MUST support the "Boots on the Ground"

Cut our loses and Bring'em home and blame that stupid Texan, just Like that other stupid Texan before we get another 58,000 KIA like Vietnam!

"Clear the decks Johnson", cut his losses politically, he would not run for a second term after the Vietnam War went badly, why can't someone cut the troops losses too? Its no fun having your American father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister killed or maimed for what, a bunch of tribesmen that despise us. Ever try going to the bathroom blind with no hands, I know of some Marines that do! The best way to support our troops are bring them home now!

SF McIntyre

Mike McIntyre

08-07-06, 02:06 PM

With Iran working on getting Nukes, Hezbola going crazy, and the weapons in that region getting more sophisticated, would this be wise?
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Some say we need MORE troops, Rumsfeld claims we have enough, and Zodiac says get out. Who is correct?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
If we do pull out, how do we keep it from imploding into all out civil war or worse?

rktect3j

08-07-06, 02:22 PM

I'm in favor of two of the three options at this point.

Not that I like to cut and run but if we are just their to screw things up and get more Americans killed then I say it is time to start pulling people. They, the Iraqes. have had their opportunity to put together some sort of police force by now. I say "too bad so sad" you didn't get it done. We gave every opportunity we could. Your people pussed out on us.

My primary position is that we should have sent more troops to begin with and that even though it may be too late for that we can still, today, send in another 100,000 - 200,000 troops into that region. That will of course start all the insurgants up for a bit but in the long run we will be able to weed them out. It also cost the US a lot more then it is currently. Just my 2 cents.

Now, in time, when either one of these is implemented and a few years go by I will be the first to say you heard it here first and that was my stance to begin with.

10thzodiac

08-07-06, 03:17 PM

Baba: Well, it is thrilling to have you here tonight, Mr. Mussolini. Can I call you Benito?

Duce: Il Duce, please.
Baba: Can I call you Duce for short?
Duce: Oh, sure. Duce. That’s a me.
Baba: Well, what I’d like to ask you, what I hoped you would comment on, is George W. Bush. You know who that is?
Duce: That’s a pipsqueak that a got himself into the White House by the back door. At least I marched on Rome.
Baba: Bush has attacked Iraq and you attacked Ethiopia. What’s the difference?
Duce: You gotta be kidding. Nobody gave a hoot about Ethiopia. They had nothing there. So I attacked.
Baba: But if they had nothing, why did you attack?
Duce: Because they beat us some years back and we wanted our manhood back. But America already beat Iraq. Why did you need to beat them again? This Bush, he confuses me. He doesn’t have a reason for the stuff he does.
Baba: He says he did it to bring democracy to Iraq and the rest of the Middle East.
Duce: So what’s the big deal? What’s a so hot about democracy? Does it make the trains run on time?
Baba: Well, you might have a point. Amtrak isn’t doing so hot. But Bush says that if everyone has democracy, it will end war and violence.
Duce: What a joke. How do you think I got into power? I got elected in a democracy. My buddy, Hitler, he got in through democratic means. Then, we started wars so we could stay in power forever. Who will oppose you when you are in a war? Keep having them and then you stay in forever.
Baba: But that’s what Bush is doing, isn’t it? So why don’t you understand him.
Duce: Because he doesn’t know how to do a war. To win a war you must have soldiers and he doesn’t have enough boots on the ground to win. To be a big-time dictator who wins wars, you need lots of boots. You've got to look like you mean business. These guys they call neo-cons are all a bunch of wimps. Softies. The Arabs, they’re not scared of them.
Baba: Is there a way out for Bush?
Duce: He better find one or he’s in trouble. If he stays, he loses and if he gets out, he loses. That’s a stupid way to be a dictator. And besides, he doesn’t have songs or parades. To be a big time Duce, you’ve got to have spectacles. This guy opens his mouth and you fall asleep.
Baba: America is broke. How can Bush fix that?
Duce: First, you must understand that Bush started out to have an empire, but he ended up making America a colony of China. That’s a getting it backwards. But then, he made America a colony of Israel. He at least should figure out that you can’t be a colony of two countries.
Baba: How does he pay off the debt?
Duce: Well, he’s got to print a lot of money. That’s the good old-fashioned way my buddy Peron did it.
Baba: And when the money isn’t worth anything, what does he do?
Duce: He does what he’s doing, give him credit for that. You go around giving lots a speeches. The more speeches you give, the more they forget that the money isn’t worth anything.
Baba: But what happens when they can’t buy anything and they get angry?
Duce: That’s a easy. You invade somebody. Somebody you can beat, like Ethiopia.
Baba: Are you saying….?
Duce: It’s staring Bush in the face but he doesn’t get it. He should invade Ethiopia and tell the United Nations to go buzz off. He can send all the unemployed over there to build roads. They always are building roads in Ethiopia, because grass grows over the old ones.
Baba: But Nixon invaded Ethiopia and it didn’t save him.
Duce: That’s because he kept it a secret. A secret war is a good way for a Duce to get thrown out. If you’re going to have a war, you gotta have it big time. Otherwise, you’re a wimp. A wimp can’t be Duce. Besides, Nixon’s war in Ethiopia was really stupid. He did it to keep Haile Sellassie in, when I invaded Ethiopia to throw him out.
Baba: So what about Iraq?
Duce: Bush has got it backwards. This guy, Saddam Hussein wanted to be Duce, so good for him. For ages, America said, Saddam Hussein wants to be Duce of Iraq. That’s fine with us. He attacks Iran. That’s fine with us. But he attacks Kuwait, a stupid country that never existed except in the mind of Winston Churchill, so Britain could control the oil, and Bush’s father says America has to fight him. When it’s over, Saddam Hussein says he is still Duce of Iraq. So Bush figures he must get rid of him after Al Queda attacked America. But what’s a the reason? He doesn’t have a reason. He just needs a war after Afghanistan, because that one ended too soon before the election. He knows his father lost because the first war ended too soon and everyone forgot he won it and they voted in Clinton because they forgot the war. So Clinton starts one in Serbia and he stays in for two terms. So Bush says, nobody’s gonna out war me.
Baba: How will it all end up?
Duce: They all loved me until I lost. Then, they hanged me upside down. Bush knows he can’t win. He must figure out how to get out and pretend he won.
Baba: How can he do that?
Duce: Not hard in a country where they a dumber even than in Italy.
Baba: Duce, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.
Duce: It’s nothing.

junker316

08-07-06, 06:00 PM

Zodiac I like the way you have demostrated the story line. That took talent. I see the point you are making and agree that if something doesn't happen soon that we may end up in a mess and servior lose of American lives. But Bush will lose either way. He can't even imagine how much he has lost already. The Democrates have nothing to do with it. He has stepped on his dick more than once since he started this stuff. All the lies from his lips have begun to surfice and now he has to back track to cover them up. There are stipulations that state that NO AMERICAN SERVICE MEMBER MAY INTERFERE WITH A CIVIL WAR OTHER THAN IN OR ON AMERICAN SOIL. And that is what this is turning into. A Civil War in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bush can't condone that American troops stay there for target practice for the Terrorists/insurgents/warlords/and any other person or nation that wishes to kill them. Rumsfield hasn't done chit and Bush can't figure out now which side to listen to. One side says enough is enough ( both from Dems and Reps ) and the other says stay until the last possible minute. But Pres Bush stated in the beginning of this that he would withdraw all troops after Saddam was no longer in power and the Iraqi Government was established. Which both exist today. Both missions he stated would bring our Service Members home are completed but yet they are still there. Pres Bush promised the Iraqi People a better life within two years of the invasion and then chit on his promise to them. Which in thier culture is something that you just don't do without some sort of retalitation in return. Thus far he has led America into servfere debt, extensive gas prices ( mainly beause he owns Oil Fields in Texas and wants his cut of the pie ), caused extreme hatred from other nations that used to back America up, reacted to late to disasters, allowing FEMA to pocket money that was for American citizens to recover from, Allowed the US Government as a whole to pocket money they don't deserve, Allowed Congress to get a hell of a pay raise while they all chit on the working Class citizens of this fine nation, Broken damn near every promise he has made to American citizens before-during-and after his elections, has been caught lying-cheating-being decietful-and not running America as it should be ran, and has his head so far up his own ass that he could recycle his meals from the last 4 years. His only gainers are ass kissers and yes men that will do whatever they need to to keep thier jobs and monitary gains from it. If I were Pres Bush I would be ashamed of how I let America be ran by another Country and changed my American policies to benefit every-one else but Americans. I would be afraid to go outside, even in an amor plated vehicle, because of the discontent that I have caused this once powerful nation. I would bow out now rather than do more damage to this beautiful nation and allow some-one with some sense run it back to where it should be...on top not on the bottom. There is no apology that he can give that would surfice other than commiting public Harey Carey on National Television in front of all the Americans that he has hurt by his greed and deceit, like Samuris used to do after shaming themselves to the ones that trusted them. He says he isn't concerned about the polls...that is because he isn't concerned about America either. He has shown he lack of concern for America by ignoring what the America public wants and needs from his position of power. He has his own agenda and fuqs over every-one else that gets in his way to include the American public that voted his ass into office.

rktect3j

08-07-06, 06:50 PM

Pres Bush promised the Iraqi People a better life within two years of the invasion and then chit on his promise to them. Which in thier culture is something that you just don't do without some sort of retalitation in return.
This is the part I find most amusing.

These people have been used to broken promises since 650 AD. Not one has seen their 72 virgins. They will retaliate because it is in their nature not because you offended them with a broken campaign promise. We offend them, period.

marinegreen

08-07-06, 07:09 PM

fontman

08-07-06, 07:41 PM

fontman

08-07-06, 07:55 PM

And YOU, are a failure in my humble opine, as well.

You and Jack Murtha are probably twin sons of different mothers.

On that note, leave me alone, azzhat!

:evilgrin:

yellowwing

08-07-06, 08:22 PM

All the Democrats want is to regain power. And most Republicans want to retain power.
That sounds weird. Are you sure the RNC wants to be caught holding the bag? And responsible for straightening everything out?

junker316

08-09-06, 09:18 PM

Hold on. Ah, there it is. Got it. My tinfoil hate. Wait, I'll put it on. OK.
Yeah, now it all makes sense to me. The brainwaves are really functioning now. Conspiracy theories. Love em. Man this makes all the sense in the world.

I hate to break the News to you rktect3j but back probably around the time of your birth there was another Pres Bush who decided to " rescue " a place named Kuwait. This era was known for Military members as Desert Shield/Desert Storm. By the way we kicked the Arses of the Iraqi Army. About a year or less later Saddam hired some-one to assanate the Pres of America...Pres Bush at the time...and it did not succeed. But because of the attempt his son...the now pres Bush...had made threating remarks against Saddam. One of them was the one I mentioned and it seems that he kept at least that promise even though it wasn't one he made before his election. Like the one that the War on Terrorism/Iraqi/Afghanistan Wars would not reach the 7 billion dooar mark. That was succeded a long time ago. Or the one of " When Saddam is out of power and there is a Government established in Iraq we will leave the Nation to the People of Iraq"...which hasn't happened since we completed those missions. SOme of us here, on Leatherneck.com, have been around the world and back. Myself living in Germany for 10 years, which was during this time I speak of, and having my wife at the time record this chit for me because I didn't believe it either then determined to me that if this A$$hole ever got into power he would in fact destory America for his own revenge if he had to. Thus far he has done alot of damage to America and very little else. The Shia and ****ite backed America against the Sunni in Iraq. Having wither one of those groups marching against America and praising Hezzbolla should show you that our Pres not only has disturbed America but put more of our beloved service members lives in danger because he refuses to listen to those who have been there...are there..or are going there. He would rather " STAY ON COURSE " even though it is a collision course with a very drastic and very deadly ending for America. He probably has Bin Laden already but would rather keep it under wraps to keep the public thinking that there is no way that with all the technology in America we can't find a 6'3" Arab on a dialisist machine even though we can pin point a flea on a dogs ass with the same technology. I would loveto watch as Pres Busch , Rumsfeld, and the rest of the corrupted political party commited Harey Carey on national Television. At least it would show that they had some kinda balls besides the ones that they are sucking on.

junker316

08-09-06, 09:32 PM

Whiskey Papa...

You are probably fortunate in that you do not reside where I do.

A bunch of us retired Marines "down here" would beg to differ with your liberal point of view.

On that note, don't go away mad...just go away and frequent your favorite sites that spill diatribe and spew venom towards my President.

:mad:

Fontman I have never really disagreed with you. But this Time you have blinders on. You can keep " your President " and give me one that is for America and not for himself. He issued a price gouging investegation and it came back " NEGATIVE " so why don't you explain how the prices haven't lowered to under $2.00 since we had such a severe season with hurricanes and oil spills? Maybe you know that between this last year and now the Prices only got higher. Of course your President wants America to be less dependent on forgien oils...he owns quite a few oil rigs in Texas and woukld profit from it like he is now from the price gouging. Let's face it...we have a man in power that has done really nothing but help every other nation but his own. And yet he expects major turn outs for his little speeches. The last one he did on Lejeune most of the Marines did not want to be there. Not because they had something better to do but because they are tired of his lies and BS. He gave a speech to the spouses of Deployed troops in 2003...most of the spouses that showed up wasn't allowed to ask the questions they wanted to ask because of the fear of having thier husbands getting into trouble for it. My wife didn't go because she was so mad that this a$$hole went on ranting and raving about how Iraq had WMDs and was helping terrorists to hurt American interests. It was the Taliban that did the 9/11 attack. Not the Al-Quaidi. It was the Taliban that did alot of the Terrorists attacks within our borders not the Al-Quaidi. But yet we went on an invasion or Crusade or what ever you wish to call it because of BS facts and BS intell. So Brother you can keep your president just giuve me on that is for the American people, aAmerican way of life, and American traditions.

rktect3j

08-10-06, 07:41 AM

Damm you just want to start out by making an asssss out of yourself. Fine by me. 
 
First, lets go take a looksee at my PROFILE. You might notice that I am 38 years old. This means that at the...

junker316

08-10-06, 01:30 PM

Well Rktect3j you did get me on not looking up your profile. That was a good catch and I apologize for that. I should be more active in that area. But what I said stands. Give me a President for...

rktect3j

08-10-06, 02:14 PM

Apology accepted. And likewise as I said in our pms. I had no intention of questioning your service to this country nor your patriotism. So with that.

Give me a President for America not for themselves.

When you find this guy, you let me know. I’ve been on the lookout for him for decades. I am a registered repub and plan on voting independent in 2006. I don’t care who is running at that time. In 2008 I may do the same again unless they are running McCain or Guilliani. Outside of them I would need to see a real candidate with integrity and I would want him grilled prior to the primary which is very likely to happen literally with this crowd today.

But I am not here to bash Bush nor will I turn into an obstructionist as I see the left. My theory on this is that we live in a two party system, neither willing to change or compromise at this point. We can not get rid of them, not really. What they, our elected officials, understand is voters and percentages. Normally the independent candidate gets about 5% plus. When they get 10% of the vote the repubs and the dems look into their own party for answers. When it is below 5% they look to blame the other side for the countries problems.

In 2004, I’ll just say it like I saw it, the left told/manipulated the independent voter to vote for Kerry. They told them that they were throwing away their voice if they did not vote Kerry. The independent candidate took about 1% in 2004 thus telling the other two parties that they were doing everything right and to blame the other side. In fact, Bush made a critical mistake at that point after he won re-election when he said (paraphrased) “I have collateral and I intend on spending it.” Sending ripples throughout both parties. The left became even more obstructionistic and the right just stopped supporting Bush vocally. You want change? Here is how it gets done. Make sure the independent candidate gets his 10%. They don’t need to be elected but they need that magic number. 10% gives that independent party federal funding for the next election. This is why the dems and repubs start to listen to the masses. Fear.

This government has spent a lot of cash. But it isn’t just Bush, the administration and the repubs. We are talking about a working government. That blame can go around a long ways. As for border security. You don’t need to try and convince me that we need more. My wife is a federal agent for ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement. I have been told that we should be afraid of our borders. I really can’t say too much more on that subject but….yeah we need more in that area. Still it was lacking for the last 100 years. We have never taken our border seriously. Never. Any talk about it from the left or right is used solely for pandering to the masses.

Now, I voted for Bush and if I knew then what I know today then I would still vote for Bush. BECAUSE Kerry was not the solution to this mess. He would have fuqqed it up beyond all recognition. This is still fixable as far as I am concerned if people would do what is right. Now I hear that the left thinks they were so close to winning in 2004 that their solution is to find someone even more liberal to be their candidate. The only one I can think of is Kennedy. Good luck with that.

redneck13

08-10-06, 02:15 PM

:D :banana: :thumbup: There are so many good reads here. And I agree with both sides. I think ya'll have come up with some very good stuff. ON the lighter side.....the fourth party canidate to run should be a "redneck." NO not the kind Jeff Foxworthy emulates as being some dumb ace junkyard, yard, etc. A TRUE BLUE COLLAR WORKER, who will speak the truth the likes of that Gov. for Minnesota, the former Wrestler, Jesse Ventura? Now those kind of folk's, is what America need's. Just my .3c's worth. SF Now Carry on You Good Blessed Maggott's P.S. Be nice, courteous, don't nit pic, K? As Fontman says, words can hurt more. Or something like that K?

redneck13

08-10-06, 02:27 PM

:!: Just to throw out something here. The President, has very little power. It's the congress/senate whom have had the power. They are like a bunch of little kids playing ball. "IF you don't do this, I'm going home!!" THE VICE PRESIDENT?, his office is really mute, 'cept to break a tie. Both sides in our countrys' history have gone to battle over every little thing, and what hasn't been noted is.....The "PORK BILLS!" Someone wants something. Bill introduced. Then, he/she goes after people to back it. In Exchange, they say yes, if..."IF", you attach this one of mine to yours. Thus when a bill hit's the President's desk? The good part is past, but the "pork" added on, that runs the cost up. This is why every President should have "line item veto!!" Bush, Clinton, Reagan, have yelped on this. It wouldn't be where only one party get's a bill passed and the other doesn't. It would eliminate the "pork/add on's" that create such more spending. Good stuff, I like this. SF Now Carry on you Good Blessed Maggott's.