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jm4magic
08-02-06, 02:29 PM
Hey guys my cousin came over from <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:State><ST1:place>Florida</ST1:place></st1:State> a few weeks back, and we got into a heated discussion on the War on Iraq/Terror. He recently just sent me an email on his views of the Bush Administration and the Conservative movement. Anyways I really need help in finding the facts and replying back to my cousin. If you guys can help me out I would highly appreciate it.Thanks!
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Hey Jameel,Sorry it took me so long to reply, I keep forgetting that I have this new emailaddress. So anyway, those articles really do suggest that there was a linkbetween Al-qaeda and Saddam. This is good, because it means that the war had areal purpose. My problem is that all these things are being found AFTER weattacked Iraq. The pre-war intelligence was really really bad. Wasn't thewhole reason for going to Iraq because they supposedly had WMDs? It turns outthat most of the intellignece about WMDs came from an Iraqi informant named"Curveball" who they now realize has lied and is probably just crazy: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7369843/site/newsweek/ (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7369843/site/newsweek/) http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5412317/site/newsweek (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5412317/site/newsweek).There's a lot of evidence that proves that Bush's cabinet planned the Iraq warlong before 9-11, but that 9-11 finally gave them an excuse to go through withit. Most of America was still fearful and angry at Muslims and the Middle Eastright after 9-11 happened, so it was easy for Bush to get support for war with aMuslim country. Within a year and a half, he had us convinced that war withIraq was the right thing to do, and that getting rid of Saddam was somehow moreimportant than catching Osama bin Laden. http://www.sundayherald.com/39221 (http://javascript<b></b>:ol('http://www.sundayherald.com/39221');) http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/conspiracy_theory/fullstory.asp?id=233 (http://javascript<b></b>:ol('http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/conspiracy_theory/fullstory.asp?id=233');) http://www.utne.com/web_special/web_specials_2003-08/articles/10739-1.html (http://javascript<b></b>:ol('http://www.utne.com/web_special/web_specials_2003-08/articles/10739-1.html');) So why does Bush want Iraq so badly? We talked about oil, and I still thinkthat's a big part of the reason. Main reason is control over that region. Ifall he wanted was to catch terrorists, he would have focused more effort on binLaden and become closer allies with other Muslim countries, so that they wouldwork with him to find terrorists in their own countries. Instead, he went towar on a "hunch" and thousands of US troops and innocent civilians have diedbecause of it. And because of civilian deaths and incidents like Haditha andAbu Ghraib prison, he's created even more terrorists! If he just wanted to freethe people from an evil dictator, he could've started with Haiti, Liberia,Zimbabwe, or countless African countries. Of course, they have nothing that wewant, so there's not much reason for the US to go there. There have beendocuments about Bush's plan to gain some control over one Middle Easterncountry, and then spread from there. If the US is successful in Iraq, Iguarantee you that Iran will be next on the list, and war is not going to stopuntil the US takes over most of the Middle East. That's why terrorists call theU.S "crusaders", because we are spreading our way of life (democracy) bykilling, destroying, and taking over. Democracy is great, but you can't getpeople to like it by shoving it down their throats. So bottom line is, I thinkthe idea of fighting terrorism is just an excuse, while the plan to gain controlof the middle east is the real reason behind all of this.Let me know what you think. But don't make me read like 10 websites, haha! Take care, I'll talk to you later.

JWG
08-02-06, 02:42 PM
Tell your cousin.. if we dont "shove democracy down their throats," they're CHOP of throats and our heads if we don't convert to Islam. Anyways.. we're not shoving it down they're throats.. Iraqi people (subtract the terrorist and militias) LOVE us over there, and they VERY HAPPY for their new Democracy.



As for , "..killing, destroying, and taking over," tell him that would be called.. W-A-R.

When it comes down to it.. the Islamic Radicals's mission is to kill all of those who do not bow down before Allah and believe what they believe. We're merely defending everyone from it.. pick who is Rightous and who is EVIL.


The U.S.A does not want to wait till we have to DEFEND on our homeland.. we want to be on the OFFENSIVE, and bring it to the other bastard's home.

God Bless America.. and God Bless Israel for what it is doing.. defending itself.


God Bless ya'll.




Motivated,

-Jon :iwo:

teddyn
08-03-06, 11:27 PM
Sounds like a pretty intelligent bloke, I agree with a lot of what he says.; although his assertion that oil was a prime motivating factor for Iraq... I disagree entirely: if concerns over petroleum transcended moral qualms, Bush would have had no problems making friends with Saddam Hussein and securing a juicy oil deal the backhand way. Dictators of Saddam's ilk can be swayed by offers of private wealth and protection. The world's oil markets do not, as far as I know, function on the basis of looting and pillaging, so I do not see how Bush would have had a plan to march in there and seize oil as his primary objective. Clearly WMD's were more of an excuse then a real threat which we were responding to (otherwise how to explain the absence of war cries over Iran and North Korea), but what I think is most likely is that Bush had a plan to topple Saddam Hussein and bring stability to that part of the middle east- since stable governments the most dangerous enemy of all militant terrorist groups; Saddam Hussein was an unstable influence on the middle east, disrupting the balance of power there.

One question though... are you debatign with him for debate's sake or are you really trying to come to a conclusion? Because by asking people on this forum you seem to be implying that you do not know any reasons yourself why he might be wrong in his view... in which case why don't you just agree with him, lol :)

JWG
08-04-06, 11:43 AM
Remember what our Squad Leader, SSgt Jim Nelson advised..


Let's stick away from politics.. MORE KNOWLEDGE AND MOTIVATING FACTORS!

WannabeDevildog
08-05-06, 01:18 AM
Tell your cousin this:
1) There WERE WMD's in Iraq. (Highlight) were. Let's not forget, they had CNN too. Saddam knew that one of our reasons for invading was because of WMD's and he also knew that if he were to dispose of them by say, moving them to Iran, Syria, or Jordan, than we wouldn't find them and there would be opposition of the war by the American public. Also there have been some weapons in Iraq found that meet WMD criteria, and therefore prove that they were there.

2)As far as getting Saddam before bin Laden, remind him that we were in Afghanistan ONE MONTH after 9-11. That's right in Oct. of that very same year we were beating the hell out of the Taliban and searching for bin LAden. We didn't invade/liberate Iraq until 2003, two year after 9-11. The only problem with the war in Afghanistan was that it was mainly fought by special forces. See, we had that bastard (Osama) cornered in Tora Bora. We were at one end, and the Pakistani border was on the other. We made the mistake of letting Afghan troops guard the border while we swept through the other side. This is just speculation on my part, but I believe Osama thratened, or bought his passage into Paki from those Afghan troops, and THAT'S WHY we didn't catch him. If we would have put MARINES on that border instead of Afghanis, Osama would be standing trial with a wound on his ass from a bayonet. It wasn't a matter of making Saddam a higher priority.

3) I'll admit oil was a part of it, but a small part. And we ARE focusing on becoming closer allies with muslim countries in the middle east. What do ya think we're doing in Iraq right now? Why do ya think we got rid of Saddam, or helped train Iraqi police and military forces? Why do ya think we're still there while the new Iraqi gov. gets on it's feet? Because IT IS A FACT that if democracy in Iraq succeeds, we WILL have a strong ally in the middle east and Iraq will back us in the future! And let's not forget about Kuwait. Hopefully they haven't forgotten how we freed them from Saddam in '91. Of course they haven't. Where do ya think we hid our forces before invading/liberating Iraq?

4)We DID NOT go in on a "Hunch". We KNEW saddam had these WMD's. We KNEW that he and his sons have slaughtered 300,000 of his own civilians.

5)Yes Iran will probably be next, but that's up to thier crazy ass president. We KNOW that he's really developing nukes. If you think otherwise you're a fool. He says they're using nuclear power for energy? Gimme a brak, they're sittin' on an ocean of oil. What do they need nuclear power for when they got all that oil? Not to mention the fact that their president said "Israel shoud be WIPED OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH"...And what would they use to do that? hmmmm

JWG
08-05-06, 01:11 PM
A (sould be un-needed) Reminder:


Remember what our Squad Leader, SSgt Jim Nelson advised..


Let's stick away from politics.. MORE KNOWLEDGE AND MOTIVATING FACTORS!

Jsphsl4204
08-05-06, 05:28 PM
This isn't a political site.

One of my favorite threads got shut down for being political on a USMC website. I'd love to discuss, but it breaks protocol.

Barret
08-05-06, 05:32 PM
Site policy is this: Leave the Politics to the Marines, and the learning to the Poolees/Wannabe's.

Jsphsl4204
08-05-06, 05:33 PM
Site policy is this: Leave the Politics to the Marines, and the learning to the Poolees/Wannabe's.

I stand (somewhat) corrected.

WannabeDevildog
08-05-06, 11:48 PM
jm4 asked us what we thought and for suggestions on how to reply to his cousin. I got a little hot-headed and overstepped my boundaries. My apologies to everyone who has posted and or viewed this thread, ESPECIALLY the SSGT. It won't happen again.

Echo_Four_Bravo
08-06-06, 12:14 PM
Guys, if you want to answer his post, feel free to do so through email or PM... that's what I did. The powers that be have made it clear that this isn't a place for poolees to discuss politics, but I personally love the fact that you want to do it. So, just take the conversations off the board and we'll all be happy.