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View Full Version : When U.S. war veterans speak about Iraq, our nation needs to listen



thedrifter
12-31-02, 10:42 AM
FROM: Herald Tribune, S.W. Fla

When U.S. war veterans speak about Iraq, our nation needs to listen

Sarasota Herald Tribune - 12/24/2002
Tom Lyons — Dec 24, 2002

When U.S. war veterans speak about Iraq, our nation needs to listen

Local veterans of various wars have urged me to come out against a U.S. attack
on Iraq.

Hearing from them always feels good. They are clearly decent and patriotic, and they have experienced war and have a strong basis for their views.

I wouldn't like it if my country had become so enthusiastic about war, so easily sold on the prospect of invading another country, that only the most knee-jerk peaceniks would now speak against the president's game plan.

Some who talked to me have a relative in the armed forces, but their worries haven't only been about the lives of Americans. Some talk just as much about the danger to ordinary families in Iraq.

Some have talked about the days before Dec. 7, 1941, when Americans had a healthy and strong reluctance to go to war until their hands were forced. They have talked about how easy it is for anyone who hasn't experienced war, no matter what movies they have seen, to think of it as a patriotic adventure.

Some have said that seems to apply to the president, and some insist his motives are selfish and political. Others just think that, no matter how good the intentions, a pre-emptive war is a mistake because war must be the last resort.

But I hear from other people, too, including veterans of the same wars, with at least as much maturity and historical perspective. They talk about the harm that can be done by failing to stand up to dangerous tyrants, and how waiting can make a war all the worse.

They agree that the United States has to act to keep us safe from weapons of mass destruction controlled by the worst possible people.

And some people on both sides think that, as a newspaper columnist, I should take a stand.

This is one of those times when it would feel better to be my usual opinionated self, and take a strong stand either for the president's apparent determination to go to war or with those who say the president needs to be reined in.


The problem is, so far, I think both sides are right.

As a high school and college kid during the Vietnam years, I was against the war for the usual, and I think correct, reasons. Those anti-war feelings stayed with me, and I have always been a skeptic whenever America seemed on the verge of war.

I'm not an easy sell and don't want to become one.
But I also think there have been times when, if a president had been as reluctant to take military action as I preferred, the result would have been worse.

If the slippery dictator who wields all power in Iraq does not make it possible for the world to be confident that he has no weapons of mass destruction, he may well make an invasion of Iraq a certainty. And I might well see such a war as a necessary evil.

As the nation decides, though, I hope we all set the bar high and demand that the president really make the case for such a war.

War ought not be based on our justified contempt for Saddam Hussein and our wish that he drop dead or, better yet, that his own people hang him from a lamppost. Nor should it be based on a desire to show that, in such matters, Americans can set aside our internal political differences and patriotically stand behind the president.

We can and will do that, when convinced that war is the right path. But it is the president's job to make sure it is, and then to convince the people he serves, without subterfuge.

Until then, there is nothing patriotic about pretending to be convinced, or keeping silent about qualms while the decision is being made. I'm glad so many local war veterans know that and speak up clearly as our nation makes this tough call.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Site=SH&Date=20021224&Category=COLUMNIST36&ArtNo=212240399&Ref=AR&Profile=1055&SectionCat=NEWS0102

Sempers,

Roger

MillRatUSMC
12-31-02, 06:02 PM
What might be the "the usual, and I think correct, reasons to be anti-war" as a youth and college student?
Now he has no objections to having other go.
Where he and his like avoided.
Now it wouldn't be PC to be seen as anti-war because it might be seen as being anti-American.
They're like weather vanes going where the wind blows the hardest.
No principals as a youth and I don't see any as adult.

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

firstsgtmike
12-31-02, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by MillRatUSMC
.
They're like weather vanes going where the wind blows the hardest.
No principals as a youth and I don't see any as adult.


If you believe the biblical story of creation, God took a clump of earth and shaped it into a man. Ergo, even HE needed something to work with.

Therefore, how can you expect a mere adult to create principles where none existed before?

firstsgtmike
01-01-03, 01:10 AM
This is someone else's post, but I felt this was a good place to put it.

Courage To Face Up To Ethical Challenges

Gen. C.C. Krulak, USMC,
Commandant

USA TODAY, August 11, 1998

"We are not born with character. It is developed by the experiences and decisions that guide our lives. Each individual creates, develops and nurtures his or her own character. Being a man or woman of character is no easy task. It requires tough decisions, many of which put you at odds with the more commonly accepted social morés of the times.

Making the right ethical choices must become a habit. Decisions cannot be situational, based on other's actions or dependent upon whom is watching.

Cowardliness in character, manifested by a lack of integrity, or honor, will sooner or later manifest itself as cowardliness in other forms. People who have the courage to face up to the ethical challenges in their daily lives, to remain faithful to sacred oaths, have a reservoir of strength from which to draw upon in times of great stress—in the heat of battle."

arzach
01-01-03, 09:47 AM
As a high school and college kid during the Vietnam years, I was against the war for the usual, and I think correct, reasons. Those anti-war feelings stayed with me, and I have always been a skeptic whenever America seemed on the verge of war.
____________________________________________
Cowardliness in character, manifested by a lack of integrity, or honor, will sooner or later manifest itself as cowardliness in other forms.
____________________________________________

My opinion, the second line explains the first, but the story doesn't stop here. War, in itself, is an ugly,nasty,vulgar business. No one really wants War for the sake of War. Iraq is flat out 'hiding' something, and it's necessary to find the truth here. Hussein has a responsibility to his citizens and, the World community to come clean. Reminds me of my 3 year old Son when he's done something he knows is wrong, the look on his face tells it all, then he tries to 'wiggle' out of trouble. Hussein fits this description, to a "T".
Please don't get me started on N. Korea, who in my mind, poses an equal or even greater threat to World Peace. Really sad that mess wasn't cleaned up in '53.

MillRatUSMC
01-01-03, 10:16 AM
I was speaking about author of this article.

Quote

As a high school and college kid during the Vietnam years, I was against the war for the usual, and I think correct, reasons. Those anti-war feelings stayed with me, and I have always been a skeptic whenever America seemed on the verge of war.
____________________________________________

My opinion, the second line explains the first, but the story doesn't stop here. War, in itself, is an ugly,nasty,vulgar business. No one really wants War for the sake of War. Iraq is flat out 'hiding' something, and it's necessary to find the truth here. Hussein has a responsibility to his citizens and, the World community to come clean. Reminds me of my 3 year old Son when he's done something he knows is wrong, the look on his face tells it all, then he tries to 'wiggle' out of trouble. Hussein fits this description, to a "T".
Please don't get me started on N. Korea, who in my mind, poses an equal or even greater threat to World Peace. Really sad that mess wasn't cleaned up in '53.

Yet during the time we were in Vietnam, he and his like were out in the street demostrating against the war.

If he really isn't against war, then one can draw the conclusion that it might have been for personal reasons.
Cowardiness comes to mind.
Now that he out of harms way, he has no qualms sending others.
What a coward and one lacking in values.
My advice to this jerk might be;
Do Walk and then do the Talk...

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

arzach
01-01-03, 10:54 AM
MillRat, I used quotes from two posts to make my point. Hope no one got confused. Author's 'reasons' for protesting the War in Viet Nam are covered in the second line quoted from Gen. Krulak.

War should only be a 'last resort' (I don't include 'apeasment' as an option either) that once taken, should have the full weight applied, with total backing. In other words accept only 'Total Victory'.

MillRat, how far is Hammond from Indy? I got a Bro up ther that is Pres. of 1st MarDivAssoc.