In Iraq, Military Forgot Lessons of Vietnam

[fontman]

Early Missteps by U.S. Left Troops Unprepared for Guerrilla Warfare <br />
By Thomas E. Ricks <br />
Washington Post Staff Writer <br />
Sunday, July 23, 2006; A01 <br />
<br />
The real war in Iraq -- the one to determine the...

[outlaw3179]

Kenya Bombings, Tanzania Bombings, USS Cole, oh yeah Clinton administration was on the ball.We should have just shot 2 or 3 patriot missles at Afghanistan , that would have taken care of everything huh? Go watch Farenheit 9/11 again. I heard its an awesome movie.

[Bige1371]

Homo Alert!!!!!!!
Semper,Bige1371

[10thzodiac]

SEMPER FI CAPT!




<TABLE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5px" cellSpacing=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=sqtdq colSpan=2>
“If everybody's thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking.”







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http://en.thinkexist.com/i/sq/as4.gif General George S. Patton (http://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/general_george_s._patton/)



:thumbup:






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[10thzodiac]

The Bush Administration had a specific warning that Bin Laden wanted to strike inside the US with suicide aircraft. National Security Advisor Rice testified that no one dreamt that aircraft would be used as suicide bombs.

Even though the 1996 Olympics -did- plan for such an eventuality.

Bush's team was criminally incompetent. The war in Iraq has ben pursued in a criminally incompetent way also.

Walt

In support of the above, pre 9/11 I remember seeing Dan Rather on TV with some Arab mover and shaker in an interview on TV, they were discussing the vulnerability of the United States to attack while driving through Washington, DC and Dan Rather questioned him about our vulnerability and the Arab simply replied look you are wide open.

Every time I reminisce in my mind about how fuked up our pre 9/11 thinking was I think about that interview. That Arab knew way back then an was laughing to our face at our stupidity an the brilliance of Usama bin Ladin plan.
Yes brilliant, as Marines you all know suprise is what they teach you when you attack your enemy. Never underestimate your enemy, respect him or he will hand you your head.

My uncle that survived WW II (now deceased) told me back then the GI's would say, the only reason we won the war is that the enemy was more fuked up than us. He was in the Luzon invasion all though the Philippine campaign and occupation of Japan. His 1st cousin (Army Sgt.) was killed in Cebu by a Japanese sniper that shot him in the throat. His dad (my grandfather) a Marine severely wounded in France WW I committed suicide at Great Lakes Naval hospital.

SF

[redneck13]

The Bush Administration had a specific warning that Bin Laden wanted to strike inside the US with suicide aircraft. National Security Advisor Rice testified that no one dreamt that aircraft would be used as suicide bombs.

Even though the 1996 Olympics -did- plan for such an eventuality.

Bush's team was criminally incompetent. The war in Iraq has ben pursued in a criminally incompetent way also.

WaltYour claim of "criminal incompetent way", on what basis do you have information making this statement? I'm just curious.

[10thzodiac]

Your claim of "criminal incompetent way", on what basis do you have information making this statement? I'm just curious.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by WhiskeyPapa
The Bush Administration had a specific warning that Bin Laden wanted to strike inside the US with suicide aircraft. National Security Advisor Rice testified that no one dreamt that aircraft would be used as suicide bombs.

Even though the 1996 Olympics -did- plan for such an eventuality.

Bush's team was criminally incompetent. The war in Iraq has ben pursued in a criminally incompetent way also.

Walt

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
With all due respect wind'n face try Googling a little, just like when you queried my "oil well in Iraq" signature by Smedley. Disclosure: 10thzodiac does own stock in google and you will be helping a fellow Marine retirement at the same time. Thank you.

Google Inc. (GOOG)

http://www.buzzflash.com/perspectives/911bush.html

[redneck13]

I don't google.

[10thzodiac]

OK, I was just kidding about the google stock.

Sorry

[greensideout]

Dan Rather Bias? No thanks, I'll seek someone who offers something not so bent as to warp the facts.

[10thzodiac]

Dan Rather Bias? No thanks, I'll seek someone who offers something not so bent as to warp the facts.


What part of pre 9/11 bias and bent to warp the facts are you suggesting Dan Rather was up to here:

" pre 9/11 I remember seeing Dan Rather on TV with some Arab mover and shaker in an interview on TV, they were discussing the vulnerability of the United States to attack while driving through Washington, DC and Dan Rather questioned him about our vulnerability and the Arab simply replied look you are wide open."

Maybe, you posted to the wrong thread, this interview was pre 9/11 not after?

In my opinion, the Arab was flaunting Usama's pre 9/11 and the Arab knew no one was intelligent enough to take him seriously.

Capitan Kirk, welcome aboard, how was it down there on earth? Scottie, you don't want to know.:sick:

[redneck13]

Leave off the "ing" in Fooling, and it becomes what you are...."FOOL" Ahhh, yes, No, I'm not kidding. Bozo.



OK, I was just kidding about the google stock.

Sorry

[redneck13]

This is my last reply to anything you post, which is mostly "ignorance", your wish is my commmand. MAGGOT

[10thzodiac]

This is my last reply to anything you post, which is mostly "ignorance", your wish is my commmand. MAGGOT

I know a Gunny that made the same wish, I almost got court marshalled but instead got meritoriously promoted to corporal in two years to the month, with his blessing. Talking about falling into *horse sh*t and coming out smelling like a rose.

Someday I might tell you that story.

SF

Did it take long to figure out what end was the *horse's drearier? You know, the wind thing...

[greensideout]

A good friend that I worked with a couple of years was a Marine in Nam some years after I was there. He was wounded and had one leg shorter then the other. The VA had special shoes built for him. The last time that I saw A.J. he was looseing his kidneys to AO. He told me a story about Dan Rather going into an LZ with his Company. He said that when they landed and started up a hill all hell broke loose. Dan Rather ran back to the chooper screaming, "I don't get paid enough for this kind of sh*t" and left.

He was never a friend of the Marines or any other U.S. military during the Vietnam war. What he said most all of the time was crap!

[10thzodiac]

A good friend that I worked with a couple of years was a Marine in Nam some years after I was there. He was wounded and had one leg shorter then the other. The VA had special shoes built for him. The last time that I saw A.J. he was looseing his kidneys to AO. He told me a story about Dan Rather going into an LZ with his Company. He said that when they landed and started up a hill all hell broke loose. Dan Rather ran back to the chooper screaming, "I don't get paid enough for this kind of sh*t" and left.

He was never a friend of the Marines or any other U.S. military during the Vietnam war. What he said most all of the time was crap!

Marines and all the rest of our brave service members do not get paid enough for this kind of sh*t, except they can't leave, well at least without consequences.

If you read General Smedley's Book, "War is a Racket" he goes into great depth on the subject you raised. http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

SF

[redneck13]

:mad: :!: :flag: If you really want to know about Dan Rather? Read Morley Safer's (sp) book's. Morley said Rather armed himself with two pearl handled pistol's, and there are also more unfavorable comments about him. Morely, from CBS 60 Min's, wrote two books, and he sums Dan Rather up....JUST SOME FYI.

[Mike McIntyre]

Why is it that the Zodiac & our good captain Whisky Papa always seem to refer to Blogs, Liberal Books & Media. Do ya’ll have a thought of your own? I think there are a lot of issues that Bush does not address well but I can suggest options. Where are your options?

If you are not part of the solution than you are part of the problem. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[lovdog]

Most of us that went thru the Vietnam Saga remember well the times that our own decisions that we made were predicated on history of previous war situations. Thats what we were taught thru boot camp, ITR and our MOS training. Learn from previous mistakes - thats the rule for preventing disaster. Remember the jungle training at Pendleton before they shipped you out? They always told you - "always expect the unexpected"!! Because sooner or later its going to happen! I have tried my best to follow that message and its kept me out of hot water for many a year.
If you look at the start of this country - our military learned:
1. Never wear a "red" coat if your going to fight a war!
2. Guns and Artillery usually always will win over spears or and arrows!
3. If you want to live thru a mustard gas event, you need to have a gas mask!
4. In a beach landing, it helps if Squidley doesn't drop you off in ten feet of water when you have on 100 pounds of gear!
5. You don't cross open terrain in the daytime while whistling "zip-a-dee-doo-dah & smokin' a pipe!
Point that I am trying to make is - not necessarily to blame the Bush Administration for our own shortcomings for 9/11. We should have expected something to happen sooner or later - because it was inevitable! The World Trade Center was a target years before 9/11 happened - with the Van bombing. Two buildings right in the heart of New York - 1000+ feet high - was a very visible target to the enemy - and they knew it. Even the head of security for the Towers - (whom they interviewed before 9/11) knew that another terrorist act would take place there - he just didn't know when! But at least had the foresight to take precautions to try to keep casualties to a minimum with the security measures that he had implemented and saved countless lives by his decisions.
So we have ememies all over this planet - and have known this for many years - its just that our fallen comrades usually paid the price in lands other than our own. Now that the battle has hit home -its a different story, and how do you prevent disaster from happening again? Maybe we can't protect all of our citizens, but if you look back at history - it will tell us what "not" to do - if we only have the courtesy to remember those that have paid the price by their own mistakes of the past. If you listen close sometimes, you'll hear a fallen Marine whisper in your ear - " watch out stupid, theres a minefield ahead"!! What we chose to do with that information is up to us! SF

[10thzodiac]

Why is it that the Zodiac & our good captain Whisky Papa always seem to refer to Blogs, Liberal Books & Media. Do ya’ll have a thought of your own? I think there are a lot of issues that Bush does not address well but I can suggest options. Where are your options?

If you are not part of the solution than you are part of the problem. <O:p></O:p>



Well McIntyre what options do you have in bringing real peace to the middle east?

The world is waiting!

[Mike McIntyre]

I must be careful or my thread will be edited, since I am only a guest here and am held to a different standard but you asked.

If you want peace you must win and you win wars through strength. Not cruelty but strength. You win wars by listening to the boots on the ground and not the media and public opinion. You win by carrying the biggest stick congress will let you carry.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
We won every major battle in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>Viet Nam</st1:place></st1:country-region> yet we lost the war. Why? <st1:country-region><st1:place>Viet Nam</st1:place></st1:country-region> was a political war fought in the Oval Office not by the Sergeants in the Field. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
<st1:country-region><st1:place>Somalia</st1:place></st1:country-region> was a disaster because it was a “humanitarian” mission not a battle fought by the military. That was your hero, Bill Clinton’s doing, the President who loathed the military. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
If George W. H. Bush would not have backed down because of “World Opinion” (Due to the “<st1:country-region><st1:place>Turkey</st1:place></st1:country-region> Shoot” photos) we would not be in the mess that we are in. Who ever thought of letting the defeated dictate the surrender?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Do I think this administration is perfect, far from it! I don’t drink the Kool Aid. But this is War!!! In the eyes of our enemy we are Infidels and are no better than pigs and rats. I will support our Marines and Soldiers and I presume that they are Innocent until proven guilty. They deserve my respect and my tax dollars and I gladly give it to them.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
We have built up every nation we have ever gone to war with. We do not colonize nor force our will on other nations. But like <st1:country-region><st1:place>Israel</st1:place></st1:country-region>, if we are threatened, I hope to God that we strike hard and fast without regard to the United Nations or any other Nation.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I answer to God, my family, and the Constitution of the <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region>. Every time this nation has sat on the sidelines and let terrorists or ego maniacs to their own devices we have paid the price.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I have NEVER meant any disrespect to anyone on this site, although there has been plenty of that along with loads of bigotry. If I have offended any of ya’ll I respectfully apologize.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
My only suggestion is that you study your history. America does not start wars, we finish them. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

[Mike McIntyre]

I thought so!!!!!

[10thzodiac]

Gees, I thought you had some real options man, I was getting all ready to call the White House to get you an Invite. All you posted was rhetoric, not one option! Are you sure you are not part of the problem?

[10thzodiac]

Hey Gator,

Sleep on it, I got confidence in you.

I'm out of here...

10thzodiac

SF

[Mike McIntyre]

Let’s see who here keeps giving rhetoric. I have not attacked one race nor have I gotten bigoted. I have not copied BLOG after BLOG and though I am very conservative, I have not quoted any of the pundits.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
So you want to write the White House? You need advice? I am sure there are several battle hardened Devil Dawgs on this site that could help in your remedial studies. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Though I have seen quote upon quote of material from the media, I have yet to read anything that reveals your brilliance or original thought.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
My thoughts for the White House:<o:p></o:p>

Pay the Military more and try to attract and keep the best of the best.<o:p></o:p>
Equip ALL branches with the best money can buy.<o:p></o:p>
Segregate the men from the women in Basic as in Boot Camp in the Corps.<o:p></o:p>
Lengthen All Basic Training (excluding the Corps)<o:p></o:p>
Stay out of conflicts that you have no intentions of winning!!!<o:p></o:p>
Pull out of the United Nations and use that money for Homeland Security and the Military<o:p></o:p>
Set the Corps as a Rapid Deployment Force<o:p></o:p>
Stop worrying about new uniforms and spend the money on the Troops and the VA <o:p></o:p>
Use International Military Forces such as NATO instead of the UN to enforce the peace.<o:p></o:p>
Let the UN do what the UN does best Humanitarian Aid<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
These are a few of MY thoughts. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

[OLE SARG]

Speaking of homeland security (what a ****ing joke) - I see that our politicians in Washington have really acted quickly on the border issue. AND they are acting quickly on the oil companies making millions because of the war on terror. WHAT A BUNCH OF PRICKS!!!!! The only people these ****heads (about 95% of them) think of is themselves, i.e., what can I do to get more votes, what can I do to stay in office, what lobbists can I get more money from, etc. All the important **** - AND I can't believe the American people KEEP PUTTING THESE ****HEAD LEECHS BACK IN OFFICE (ms kerry and swimmer kennedy are good examples - lifetime leechs on the American tax-payer)!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

[Mike McIntyre]

Once again Ole Sarge I must agree. We have plenty of laws so why don’t we enforce them? We have plenty of UN resolutions, so why aren’t they enforced? Yet, there are so many who want to give these governmental pinheads more of their freedoms and tax dollars not less.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Vote ALL the bums out ( whether you like them or not). Vote for the Fair Tax, Line Item Vetoes, and TERM LIMITS!!

[10thzodiac]

Let’s see who here keeps giving rhetoric. I have not attacked one race nor have I gotten bigoted. I have not copied BLOG after BLOG and though I am very conservative, I have not quoted any of the pundits.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
So you want to write the White House? You need advice? I am sure there are several battle hardened Devil Dawgs on this site that could help in your remedial studies. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
Though I have seen quote upon quote of material from the media, I have yet to read anything that reveals your brilliance or original thought.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
My thoughts for the White House:<O:p></O:p>

Pay the Military more and try to attract and keep the best of the best.<O:p></O:p>
Equip ALL branches with the best money can buy.<O:p></O:p>
Segregate the men from the women in Basic as in Boot Camp in the Corps.<O:p></O:p>
Lengthen All Basic Training (excluding the Corps)<O:p></O:p>
Stay out of conflicts that you have no intentions of winning!!!<O:p></O:p>
Pull out of the United Nations and use that money for Homeland Security and the Military<O:p></O:p>
Set the Corps as a Rapid Deployment Force<O:p></O:p>
Stop worrying about new uniforms and spend the money on the Troops and the VA <O:p></O:p>
Use International Military Forces such as NATO instead of the UN to enforce the peace.<O:p></O:p>
Let the UN do what the UN does best Humanitarian Aid<O:p></O:p><O:p> </O:p>
These are a few of MY thoughts. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>

McIntyre
The world is still waiting for your options

"I think there are a lot of issues that Bush does not address well but I can suggest options. Where are your options?" ~McIntyre

What are 10thZodiac's options?
McIntyre my option/s has been right under your nose the whole time, lets see if you can find it! Wind'nface found it!

[10thzodiac]

Once again Ole Sarge I must agree. We have plenty of laws so why don’t we enforce them? We have plenty of UN resolutions, so why aren’t they enforced? Yet, there are so many who want to give these governmental pinheads more of their freedoms and tax dollars not less.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Vote ALL the bums out ( whether you like them or not). Vote for the Fair Tax, Line Item Vetoes, and TERM LIMITS!!


WE AGREE ON SOMETHING

:thumbup:

[Mike McIntyre]

Okay Zodiac:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
What do you need? My opinions must not register because they are my own. Many others have thanked me for my opinions, all be it, they are worth exactly what people pay for them. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
You were in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>Nam</st1:place></st1:country-region> yet you quote McNamara? If you were in the <st1:country-region><st1:place>Nam</st1:place></st1:country-region>, then what are your opinions? How is the "Sand Box" like “In Country”? Besides pulling out, how would you correct the “Woes” of this conflict?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I understand we agree on almost “NOTHING”!!! But I would like to read what you REALLY think? <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
And would include answers to just two simple questions because my Southern Public Education, and MS Degree has me left defenseless against Whiskey Papa and the Zodiac. Please, from the bottom of your heart, <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
A. Why are Enlistments and Re-Enlistments up (especially in the Corps)?<o:p></o:p>
B. Why should my son enlist in the USMC if this conflict is so wrong?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I patiently wait for you reply.<o:p></o:p>

[Mike McIntyre]

The “genius” is still waiting for your brilliant answers, Zodiac.

[10thzodiac]

Okay Zodiac:<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
What do you need? My opinions must not register because they are my own. Many others have thanked me for my opinions, all be it, they are worth exactly what people pay for them. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
You were in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><ST1:place>Nam</ST1:place></st1:country-region> yet you quote McNamara? If you were in the <st1:country-region><ST1:place>Nam</ST1:place></st1:country-region>, then what are your opinions? How is the "Sand Box" like “In Country”? Besides pulling out, how would you correct the “Woes” of this conflict?<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I understand we agree on almost “NOTHING”!!! But I would like to read what you REALLY think? <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
And would include answers to just two simple questions because my Southern Public Education, and MS Degree has me left defenseless against Whiskey Papa and the Zodiac. Please, from the bottom of your heart, <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
A. Why are Enlistments and Re-Enlistments up (especially in the Corps)?<O:p></O:p>
B. Why should my son enlist in the USMC if this conflict is so wrong?<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I patiently wait for you reply.<O:p></O:p>

A. Why we send our young boys & girls off to war, "they don't know any better!"
B. I wonder in hindsight if that question was asked of "Chesty" about his boy Lt. Louis B. Puller II http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/puller.htm what he'd say? That's my answer ~

P.S. I have only 2 1/2 yrs. HS, GED, and a college certificate HVAC, and was recruited to teach at same college electricity for HVAC...turned it down and became a millionaire before 50 in refrigeration

[Mike McIntyre]

A. Why we send our young boys & girls off to war, "they don't know any better!"<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
So let me get this straight. You are on a Marine Corp site telling me that I would send my son to the Corps because we/he does not know any better?

[10thzodiac]

A. Why we send our young boys & girls off to war, "because they don't know any better!"<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
So let me get this straight. You are on a Marine Corp site telling me that I would send my son to the Corps because we/he does not know any better?

That's what General Smedley D. Butler did with his three boys!

And I bet that's why Louis B. Puller III isn't in the Marine Corps!

Before you blow this out of context (which you are creaming in your jeans to do like an ignoramus) read my signature below, that's why!

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, that's mine.

I would have my children and grandchildren go into the Marines/Military in a heart beat only to defend the Bill of Rights or our shores and nothing else, like an oil well in Iraq! Read my signature below!

[003XXMarineDAD]

A. Why we send our young boys & girls off to war, "they don't know any better!"
B. I wonder in hindsight if that question was asked of "Chesty" about his boy Lt. Louis B. Puller II http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/puller.htm what he'd say? That's my answer ~

P.S. I have only 2 1/2 yrs. HS, GED, and a college certificate HVAC, and was recruited to teach at same college electricity for HVAC...turned it down and became a millionaire before 50 in refrigeration

Zodiac on this one you are all wet. My son knew what he was getting into and so did many of his fellow poolee's when they joined up. It hurts to see how one in your rank in the Corps could be so far wrong.
My son is right now over in Iraq doing all the bad things you tend to believe from your goggle searches and they must be from the CODE PINK WEB SITE.
My son to which I willl base my opinion more then what you have been posting. The news I get from the boots and I do mean boots of my son being there a heck of a lot good is being done over there. It is just that more media has your take on it then the ones doing it. Which is a damn shame that they are more intent on helping the one's we are fighting.
This is just thoughts and facts from a father of one of those uniformed Marines you seem to like to put down.

[Mike McIntyre]

Zodiac:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
What I would like to tell you and others like you on this site would get me banned by the Drifter!!!!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
We have family members, recruiters, and poolees who rely on this site for advice and support. We have boots on the ground that need our support. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I guess that you are bitter for some reason because you seem to try your best to DISRESPECT all that is good in the Corps.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
If you feel so strongly, and the Nation agrees with you, why don’t you run for office? <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
You got my vote, NOT!

[10thzodiac]

Zodiac:<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
What I would like to tell you and others like you on this site would get me banned by the Drifter!!!!<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
We have family members, recruiters, and poolees who rely on this site for advice and support. We have boots on the ground that need our support. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I guess that you are bitter for some reason because you seem to try your best to DISRESPECT all that is good in the Corps.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
If you feel so strongly, and the Nation agrees with you, why don’t you run for office? <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
You got my vote, NOT!

I'm not bitter, just too outspoken and not all that naive anymore

As far as: "We have family members, recruiters, and poolees who rely on this site for advice and support. We have boots on the ground that need our support."

Should one keep quiet if our soldiers rifles are defective any less than their mission, even you would want them to know their rifles were defective wouldn't you?

[10thzodiac]

Zodiac on this one you are all wet. My son knew what he was getting into and so did many of his fellow poolee's when they joined up. It hurts to see how one in your rank in the Corps could be so far wrong.
My son is right now over in Iraq doing all the bad things you tend to believe from your goggle searches and they must be from the CODE PINK WEB SITE.
My son to which I willl base my opinion more then what you have been posting. The news I get from the boots and I do mean boots of my son being there a heck of a lot good is being done over there. It is just that more media has your take on it then the ones doing it. Which is a damn shame that they are more intent on helping the one's we are fighting.
This is just thoughts and facts from a father of one of those uniformed Marines you seem to like to put down.

Respect your vested interest and opinion and best wishes for your son and all our troops. Yes some people do know what they are getting into and good for them.

My problem goes way back to Thomas Jefferson, "Love your country never trust your government." It took Smedley 2 MOH's to figure out "War is a Racket!" I started seeing it when Kennedy screwed up the "Bay of Pigs invasion!" I got into a heated debate with a Corpsman in my outfit that Kennedy wouldn't do that (my naivety) well, he was right and I was dead wrong Kennedy did it and the beginning of my disillusionment and questioning.
I wonder now if I labeled him with some of that pink stuff everybody is floating around here, probably did!

Goodnight every body enough for tonight, today, whatever!

[redneck13]

McIntyre
The world is still waiting for your options

"I think there are a lot of issues that Bush does not address well but I can suggest options. Where are your options?" ~McIntyre

What are 10thZodiac's options?
McIntyre my option/s has been right under your nose the whole time, lets see if you can find it! Wind'nface found it!I said I wouldn't reply anymore, until I read this!!! Are you referring to something about the ace end of a horse? If you are HOSS?, my Name "Wind 'n face" has been attacked, and I am sickened by your continual idiotic, rhetoric, abuse toward's other's, you're out of context Bullsheet, your insidious "blog's", "books", just plain garbage. Go ahead "BIG MOUTH", Tell us...."WHAT LESSONS WERE FORGOT IN IRAQ, FROM VIETNAM, WHICH YOU HAVE CONTINUALLY NOT KEPT ON THE SUBJECT, AND DON'T BLAME OTHER'S, AS YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CONTINUOUSLY, STARTS THESE MESSES." PUT UP OR SHUT UP!! There are no lesson's forgotten about Vietnam in Iraq, because, these are two different, very distinct types of War's, which Ellie posted, and Fontman posted. The Muslim people, these insane jerks, want the entire World to be Muslim, Ho-Chi-Men, ONLY WANTED S. VIETNAM. So, I give you the floor, Hotshot, tells us what "LESSON'S" in YOUR OWN WORDS, not from some book, blog, or other, "ABOUT IT!!"

[Mike McIntyre]

Zodiac,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I hate to read that you are ill. Maybe it was Agent Orange? What unit were you in during Nam? I see that you got out in 1965. I love history and I would love to hear your take. Were you in the first Marine assult?
<o:p></o:p>
." With the new American military commitment, confirmed in March 1965 when Johnson sent the first combat troops to Vietnam,<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
During a sneak night attack, the VC hit the air base at Pleiku in the central highlands. The American barracks was rocketed; aircraft and helicopters were shredded. Eight Americans were killed; 125 more wounded.<o:p></o:p>
The enemy then struck at Qui Nhon in Central Vietnam. The Americans counted their casualties.
The decision was made. “Land the Marines!" March 8, 1965,

[thedrifter]

My late husband died from Agent Orange...

I can say even though he was in much pain, he Never put down his Country, and His Beloved Corps....

Ellie

[Mike McIntyre]

Drifter:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
No disrespect intended. I lost several family friends (One Brother-in-law to be – Marine Helo pilot) in / or because of NAM. I was just trying to establish a timeline.

[redneck13]

"YEAH WHERE YOU IN VIETNAM, HOTSHOT?"........ Mac? Please refrain from using inuendo's, like, Are you sick from Agent Orange, in the manner it was taken. I for one am sick from it. And Ellie's late Husband, died from it. It can be offensive. Just use different techniques when asking this, OKAY?

[Mike McIntyre]

I am so sorry. I thought about it AFTER I pushed the send button. It was very insensitive on my part. I take FULL ownership of my mistake.

[10thzodiac]

Zodiac,<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I hate to read that you are ill. Maybe it was Agent Orange? What unit were you in during Nam? I see that you got out in 1965. I love history and I would love to hear your take. Were you in the first Marine assult?
<O:p


First McIntyre, I really feel sorry for children of ignoramuses!

I'm not up to speed yet, no it wasn't "Agent Orange" it was a bad viral sinus infection.

Ignoramuses: That's why they have locks on footlockers, lockers and a clothesline watch.

So, you want to know my awards and decorations for my service I'll tell you, (2) Armed forces Expeditionary Medals, one for Cuba and one for Vietnam, the one for Vietnam can be exchanged for the Republic of Vietnam Service Medal if I so desire as it wasn't in existence when I was in Vietnam and you were 4 years old McIntyre. (1) Marine Corps Expeditionary medal for boots on the ground Cuba October 1962, when you were 2 years old McIntyre; later in '92 when I asked for my MCEM the Navy ran out of them and started issuing Navy Expeditionary Medal's instead. (1) Vietnam Cross of Gallantry w/palm, unit citation MACV 1964. (1) National Defense Medal, (1) Never Got Caught medal, Rifle Expert Badge, Pistol Marksman Badge.

I had individual orders for Vietnam in July of '64 as a FO radioman for a team of Marine forward observers, I estimate there was about ten teams assembled at 12th Marines Regimental Headquarters in Okinawa on a Sunday in the last part of July '64.

Well, before the above teams had a chance to leave for Vietnam, things changed and they mounted a 7000 Marine Reinforced Brigade instead and my Battalion 2/12 and I went. The Mission was "Top Secret" because of the sensitive nature of the mission. For now I'll show you on line my ship (see Aug 6th 1964 Ships history entry) that was called back to Okinawa after completing a Far East tour http://www.ussmagoffin.org/shphist.html#history to pick Marines up in Okinawa and take us to Vietnam, later when I post a thread about "Vietnam, The War That Almost Wasn't", I'll direct you to DECLASSIFIED TOP SECRET DOCUMENTS on-line showing what was going on in Vietnam at that time, linking why 7000 Marines were there secretly and why the war almost wasn't.

McIntyre, I know you want to be the Bride at every wedding, corpse at every funeral, so tell us about all the, awards and decorations you have! Don't tell us you are some kind of a Wannabe now, trying to put good Marines down with "Agent Orange Rhetoric" because you are some kind of old frustrated wash-women that didn't do sh*t in the Marines!

At least tell us you knew someone that was there or something like that!

[greensideout]

Sometimes you make me laugh 10th. Who was your DI in boot? Was it Gunnery Sgt Garcia? I was there in Aug to Nov. I think we were near the same time.
But I beat ya to Nam!

[10thzodiac]

Sometimes you make me laugh 10th. Who was your DI in boot? Was it Gunnery Sgt Garcia? I was there in Aug to Nov. I think we were near the same time.
But I beat ya to Nam!

Semper Fi Bro! My D.I.'s were Gunnery Sergeant Wruck, Staff Sergeant Padberry, Sergeant Freedin and 1st Lt Adalesie was the CO.

There was a Staff Sergeant in my series October '64 who I believe his name was Garcia, in our 390 series. That SOB wasn't even my DI and he got me fuk'ed up once and almost a second time.

I just checked the official dates after I saw your post, I was in Nam August 12 through October 3rd, 1964. I was not suppose to go back home from the Rock till May of '65 , my second consecutive tour there. My HQ. Battery office sergeant told me in the beginning of March '65 that Division called and wanted to know if my Japanese wife and my daughter's U.S. passports were ready, I said yes. He then said they want to know if I want to go home early, I said yes! I left Okinawa March 10th, 1965 and later in Camp Lejeune I met a Marine that just came in from the 3rd Marine Brigade, Hawaii; he told me that on March 13th his Brigade was in Okinawa and he was at my old base Camp Zukeran and my Regiment the 12th already left for Vietnam, gone!!! I missed going a second time by three days, ah shucks, they should of told me I was going to miss going back to Nam! Unlike me, that Marine from the 3rd Marine Brigade, Hawaii was not culled out as a short timer before sending him somewhere, he had already did an overseas tour in Hawaii and they had to sent him back right away, thus Camp Lejeune.

In about the middle of my Nam stint they were short of message center people in Battalion and they gave me an interim secret clearance and assigned me to copy Naval messages for the Marine Brass and I got the poop pretty good on what we were doing there.

SF Bro!:usmc:

P.S. You may of read that I was going to the VA today on my post last evening. Let me tell you they are fantastic at Hines. I don't think I could get that kind of service unless I was "admitted" to a regular hospital. Today chest x-rays and blood draw at 2PM and a phone call at home 5:30PM with the results-negative except for a tiny scar (insignificant) at the bottom of one lung. The 9th Im get a cat-scan of my sinuses and an appointment with my Regular VA doctor the 15th. I figure my only cost will be the Specialty Nurse today $15-$50? and the Doctor $15. I love this country!

[10thzodiac]

Correction:

Type-O above post, 2nd Paragraph: There was a Staff Sergeant in my series October '60 (not '64)

[Mike McIntyre]

Zodiac:
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
As stated earlier, I was not in the Service (Medical). “Wannabe”, sure who wouldn’t want to be associated with the “Best” branch of the Military for the greatest Country that was ever created.
<o:p></o:p>
I have to say thanks for setting me straight. I love good historical fiction.
<o:p></o:p>
Thanks to ALL who served. Pray for all who are serving.

[10thzodiac]

Zodiac:
<O:p></O:p>
As stated earlier, I was not in the Service (Medical). “Wannabe”, sure who wouldn’t want to be associated with the “Best” branch of the Military for the greatest Country that was ever created.
<O:p></O:p>
I have to say thanks for setting me straight. I love good historical fiction.
<O:p></O:p>
Thanks to ALL who served. Pray for all who are serving.

McAnus What is your major malfunction, numbnuts? Didn't Mommy and Daddy show you enough attention when you were a child? I thought you were a former Marine being here mouthing off the way you do. I see that you are sucking up to popular opinion and playing the crowd to make friends here. I learned a long time ago that my best friend is me and that's why I'm never disappointed. According to you your son isn't even in the Marines yet or if he will ever be, well maybe you can talk your son into getting the medals you were denied. Lets just hope he doesn't get a Purple Heart doing so, but I'm sure if he does you will really have something to crow about here. Good luck!

Anytime you want me to prove my awards, decorations and the places I say I have been are not fiction just tell me how much you can afford to loose and I will accommodate you, that is if pukey wannabe scuzzy non-military big mouth civilians without balls put their money where their mouths are. I bet you one of the those wannabes civilians with only two moving parts a mouth and an anus that are interchangeable

McAnus, I really feel sorry for children of ignoranuses!

I'm not up to speed yet, no it wasn't "Agent Orange" that's just a fig of your newton McAnus.

McAnuses: That's why they have locks on footlockers, lockers and a clothesline watch.

So, you want to know my awards and decorations for my service I'll tell you, (2) Armed forces Expeditionary Medals, one for Cuba and one for Vietnam, the one for Vietnam can be exchanged for the Republic of Vietnam Service Medal if I so desire as it wasn't in existence when I was in Vietnam and you were 4 years old McIntyre. (1) Marine Corps Expeditionary medal for boots on the ground Cuba October 1962, when you were 2 years old McIntyre; later in '92 when I asked for my MCEM the Navy ran out of them and started issuing Navy Expeditionary Medal's instead. (1) Vietnam Cross of Gallantry w/palm, unit citation MACV 1964. (1) National Defense Medal, (1) Never Got Caught medal, Rifle Expert Badge, Pistol Marksman Badge.

I had individual orders for Vietnam in July of '64 as a FO radioman for a team of Marine forward observers, I estimate there was about ten teams assembled at 12th Marines Regimental Headquarters in Okinawa on a Sunday in the last part of July '64.

Well, before the above teams had a chance to leave for Vietnam, things changed and they mounted a 7000 Marine Reinforced Brigade instead and my Battalion 2/12 and I went. The Mission was "Top Secret" because of the sensitive nature of the mission. For now I'll show you on line my ship (see Aug 6th 1964 Ships history entry) that was called back to Okinawa after completing a Far East tour http://www.ussmagoffin.org/shphist.html#history to pick Marines up in Okinawa and take us to Vietnam, later when I post a thread about "Vietnam, The War That Almost Wasn't", I'll direct you to DECLASSIFIED TOP SECRET DOCUMENTS on-line showing what was going on in Vietnam at that time, linking why 7000 Marines were there secretly and why the war almost wasn't.

McAnus, I know you want to be the Bride at every wedding, corpse at every funeral, so tell us about all the, awards and decorations you have! Don't tell us you are some kind of a Wannabe now, trying to put good Marines down with "Agent Orange Rhetoric" because you are some kind of old frustrated wash-women beating her gums that didn't do sh*t in the Marines!

At least tell us you knew someone that was there or something like that!