I know America's real enemy do you?

[10thzodiac]

The ones that got us in this mess! <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
March 1995, pgs. 79-81 <br />
Middle East History—It Happened In March Israel Charged With Systematic Harassment of U.S. Marines <br />
<br />
By Donald Neff

[rktect3j]

They certainly do antagonize and manipulate countries and people for their own purposes. Remind you of another country?

[Mama]

Zodiac...as through all of history you're falling into the trap of "It's all wrong let's blame the Jews"
Thinking like this lead to the burnings in Germany in the 12th century, the banishments from Spain during the inquisition and more recently the extermination camps of Nazi Germany.

Get this...Israel has just as much right to a sovereign nation and national security at the US. It was Harry Truman who made the call to the new Prime Minister of Israel when they declared their sovereignty...against his staff's wishes...

So yeah, all the problems in the Middle East and lack of peace could be blamed on the Jews...why? Because they wish to exist and pursue "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" just as we Americans do...

Get over it!!!

[Mike McIntyre]

So true!!!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Who started the "Six Day War"? The "Yom Kippur War?<o:p></o:p>
Who rocketed <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>Israel</st1:place></st1:country-region> as Israeli troops were "PULLING OUT" of the <st1:City><st1:place>Gaza</st1:place></st1:City>?<o:p></o:p>
Who DID NOT retaliate when SCUDs from <st1:country-region><st1:place>Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region> came falling in their homeland?<o:p></o:p>
Who has to tolerate nations and peoples saying,” We will not rest while <st1:country-region><st1:place>Israel</st1:place></st1:country-region> is a nation"<o:p></o:p>
Who has to listen as the third largest religion calls the infidels?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Last time I checked, God gave them that land!!!<o:p></o:p>

[10thzodiac]

Zodiac...as through all of history you're falling into the trap of "It's all wrong let's blame the Jews"
Thinking like this lead to the burnings in Germany in the 12th century, the banishments from Spain during the inquisition and more recently the extermination camps of Nazi Germany.

Get this...Israel has just as much right to a sovereign nation and national security at the US. It was Harry Truman who made the call to the new Prime Minister of Israel when they declared their sovereignty...against his staff's wishes...

So yeah, all the problems in the Middle East and lack of peace could be blamed on the Jews...why? Because they wish to exist and pursue "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" just as we Americans do...

Get over it!!!

Many Jews from all walks of life, are highly critical of the tactics of the government of Israel and Zionism. Albert Einstein himself, an ardent supporter of the creation a Jewish state, warned in 1955: “The most important aspect of our policy must be our ever-present, manifest desire to institute complete equality for Arab citizens living in our midst.” At another time he stated: “Should we be unable to find a way to honest cooperation and honest pacts with the Arabs, then we have learned absolutely nothing during our 2,000 years of suffering and deserve all that will come to us.” (There is a small booklet entitled: The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict,” published by “Jews For Justice In The Middle East,” which I believe gives an honest and objective analysis of this subject).

[Mama]

According to your quote mining then Israel should just dissolve it's sovereignty, allow all peoples of jewish blood to be exterminated and thereby accomplishing peace between arab and jew...'cause jews wouldn't be around if that's what happened...

Here's a clue...

there is always be war as long as there is an Israel...it exists...face it...it's the arabs who refuse to allow peace...

after all even a bull has horns...why??

to tell the predators to "stay off my back...I just wanna eat my grass"

The same goes for Israel...the IDF is armed and ready the way it is for a reason... "Leave us alone, we just want our nation and our freedom. Our citizens to be safe from your crazy closed minded jihad"


You can keep spouting all the quotes you want, but that land belongs to the Jews, we've given enough of it away no more...and no more killing of our women and children, our aged and our soldiers in teh name of "Jihad" ....

Ever hear the saying "mess with the bull ya get the horn"?? Well, they've messed enough...they're gettin' the horn:mad:

[Mike McIntyre]

You are dealing with the same people who blew up the World Trade Centers (twice), who blew up the Pentagon, and who kill, maim and torture our own troops. Let Einstein negotiate a deal.

[rktect3j]

We do have to realize that Isreal does instigate things in very subtle ways. They are no more right or wrong then the other side as far as I am concerned. We all have skeletons in our closets.

[10thzodiac]

According to your quote mining then Israel should just dissolve it's sovereignty, allow all peoples of jewish blood to be exterminated and thereby accomplishing peace between arab and jew...'cause jews wouldn't be around if that's what happened...

Here's a clue...

there is always be war as long as there is an Israel...it exists...face it...it's the arabs who refuse to allow peace...

after all even a bull has horns...why??

to tell the predators to "stay off my back...I just wanna eat my grass"

The same goes for Israel...the IDF is armed and ready the way it is for a reason... "Leave us alone, we just want our nation and our freedom. Our citizens to be safe from your crazy closed minded jihad"


You can keep spouting all the quotes you want, but that land belongs to the Jews, we've given enough of it away no more...and no more killing of our women and children, our aged and our soldiers in teh name of "Jihad" ....

Ever hear the saying "mess with the bull ya get the horn"?? Well, they've messed enough...they're gettin' the horn:mad:


[What Ariel Sharon Said]
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/std/images/ArielSharon.jpgOccupied Jerusalem: 3 October, 2001 (IAP) -- According to Israel radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yisrael, [Shimon] Peres warned [Ariel] Sharon Wednesday that refusing to heed incessant American requests for a cease-fire with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and "turn the US against us." At this point, a furious Sharon reportedly turned toward Peres, saying "every time we do something you tell me Americans will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it."

[Mama]

So you're arguing...that a man who's NO longer in control...Who's incapacitated to the point of near vegetative state said something 5 years ago and ....????

Really...get over it...enough with the Jew bashing...I'm liable to take it *really* personally at some point...

[Zulu 36]

I think everyone has to understand one thing. Israel will look out for Israel. If that means manipulating US politics, they will do it. If it means killing every Islamic terrorist they can lay hands on, they will do it. If it means nuking Iran, that will happen too. They are taking care of ichiban.

After Hitler, the Jews, as a nation, decided enough turning the other cheek. They only have four cheeks (in two widely seperated locations) and they've all been well used up over the centuries. The present Jewish attitude is, "I ain't going to be the last mother****er hurt in this gunfight."

The whole "palestinian" problem was created by the Arab countries about to conduct a war against the new state of Israel. They encouraged the Muslim population to flee, predicting Israeli pogroms against Muslims that never did occur. Those Arab countries, to this day, refuse to significantly support the palestinian refugees (except militarily), refuse them citizenship, or meaningful employment. Somehow, all of that is Israel's fault too.

Remember too, Yasser Arafat was not a Palestinian. He was an Egyptian.

Actually, there are no such people as "palestinians." This was a politically invented phrase. Technically, Israeli Jews are as much "Palestinians" as the Muslim "refugees" are.

I firmly believe that left alone, Israel would not be a problem. However, Islamic fundamentalists (in other words, most Muslims) won't let that happen. Thus we are seeing Israel get tired of being screwed with (again).

I am not Jewish. But I am a student of history and war.

:usmc:

[Mike McIntyre]

Do you remember who took the preemptive strike against <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region>’s Nuke program? Thank God they don't wait on our diplomacy.

[greensideout]

10thzodiac, I guess that I mis-read you. You just don't get it. Read the responces, take a breath and THINK! Israel has a right to their home just as you do (I think you do as least). If you have a personal dislike of the State of Israel just say so. I don't think much of your propaganda program.

[10thzodiac]

10thzodiac, I guess that I mis-read you. You just don't get it. Read the responces, take a breath and THINK! Israel has a right to their home just as you do (I think you do as least). If you have a personal dislike of the State of Israel just say so. I don't think much of your propaganda program.


Since when did quoting history and news reports become propaganda? The only spin I put on this is, "I know who the enemy is, do you??" In my humble opinion I think it speaks for itself!

Don't believe the above, try this:



Betrayal Behind Israeli
Attack On USS Liberty
By Admiral Thomas Moorer
Houston Chronicle
1-14-4


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=555 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><DL><DT>After State Department officials and historians assembled in Washington, D.C., last week to discuss the 1967 war in the Middle East, I am compelled to speak out about one of U.S. history's most shocking cover-ups. <DT><DT>On June 8, 1967, Israel attacked our proud naval ship -- the USS Liberty -- killing 34 American servicemen and wounding 172. Those men were then betrayed and left to die by our own government. <DT><DT>U.S. military rescue aircraft were recalled, not once, but twice, through direct intervention by the Johnson administration. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's cancellation of the Navy's attempt to rescue the Liberty, which I personally confirmed from the commanders of the aircraft carriers America and Saratoga, was the most disgraceful act I witnessed in my entire military career. <DT><DT>To add insult to injury, Congress, to this day, has failed to hold formal hearings on Israel's attack on this American ship. No official investigation of Israel's attack has ever permitted the testimony of the surviving crew members. <DT><DT>A 1967 investigation by the Navy, upon which all other reports are based, has now been fully discredited as a cover-up by its senior attorney. Capt. Ward Boston, in a sworn affidavit, recently revealed that the court was ordered by the White House to cover up the incident and find that Israel's attack was "a case of mistaken identity." <DT><DT>Some distinguished colleagues and I formed an independent commission to investigate the attack on the USS Liberty. After an exhaustive review of previous reports, naval and other military records, including eyewitness testimony from survivors, we recently presented our findings on Capitol Hill. They include: <DT><DT>· Israeli reconnaissance aircraft closely studied the Liberty during an eight-hour period prior to the attack, one flying within 200 feet of the ship. Weather reports confirm the day was clear with unlimited visibility. The Liberty was a clearly marked American ship in international waters, flying an American flag and carrying large U.S. Navy hull letters and numbers on its bow. <DT><DT>Despite claims by Israeli intelligence that they confused the Liberty with a small Egyptian transport, the Liberty was conspicuously different from any vessel in the Egyptian navy. It was the most sophisticated intelligence ship in the world in 1967. With its massive radio antennae, including a large satellite dish, it looked like a large lobster and was one of the most easily identifiable ships afloat. <DT><DT>· Israel attempted to prevent the Liberty's radio operators from sending a call for help by jamming American emergency radio channels. <DT><DT>· Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned lifeboats at close range that had been lowered to rescue the most seriously wounded. <DT><DT>As a result, our commission concluded that: <DT><DT>· There is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew. <DT><DT>· In attacking the USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against U.S. servicemen and an act of war against the United States <DT><DT>· The White House knowingly covered up the facts of this attack from the American people. <DT><DT>· The truth continues to be concealed to the present day in what can only be termed a national disgrace. <DT><DT>What was Israel's motive in launching this attack? Congress must address this question with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services. <DT><DT>The men of the USS Liberty represented the United States. They were attacked for two hours, causing 70 percent of American casualties, and the eventual loss of our best intelligence ship. <DT><DT>These sailors and Marines were entitled to our best defense. We gave them no defense. <DT><DT>Did our government put Israel's interests ahead of our own? If so, why? Does our government continue to subordinate American interests to Israeli interests? These are important questions that should be investigated by an independent, fully empowered commission of the American government. <DT><DT>The American people deserve to know the truth about this attack. We must finally shed some light on one of the blackest pages in American naval history. It is a duty we owe not only to the brave men of the USS Liberty, but to every man and woman who is asked to wear the uniform of the United States. <DT><DT><DT>Moorer was chairman of the joint chiefs of staff from 1970 to 1974. He is joined in the independent commission of inquiry by Gen. Ray Davis (recently deceased); Rear Adm. Merlin Staring; former Judge Advocate General of the Navy and Ambassador James Akins. <DT><DT>http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-3617724,00.html <DT><DT>U.S. Says 1967 Attack Act of Negligence <DT><DT>GUARDIAN (London) Tuesday January 13, 2004 2:31 AM By BARRY SCHWEID AP Diplomatic Writer <DT><DT>WASHINGTON (AP) - Reviewing documents covering 36 years, amid a lack of consensus, a State Department official concluded Monday that Israel's attack on the U.S. spy ship Liberty during the 1967 Six Day War was an act of Israeli negligence. <DT><DT>The United States also was negligent, the official maintained, for failing to notify Israel that the electronic intelligence-gathering ship was cruising international waters off the Egyptian coast and for failing to withdraw the Liberty from the war zone. <DT><DT>A daylong conference that studied fresh documents as well as the established record failed to produce a consensus for any of three views voiced most often: Israel intentionally attacked what it knew to be a ship of the U.S. Navy, the attack was accidental, or the attack resulted from faulty judgment. <DT><DT>Thirty-four Americans were killed in the June 8, 1967, attack, and more than 170 were wounded. <DT><DT>Israel long has maintained that the attack was a case of mistaken identity, an explanation the Johnson administration did not challenge formally. Israel said its forces thought the Liberty was an Egyptian horse carrier, apologized to the United States and paid almost $13 million in compensation, some to victims or their families. <DT><DT>Since the United States did not intercept the order to attack the ship with cannon fire and napalm, precise facts of the attack remain elusive, the State Department official said Monday, speaking on condition of anonymity. <DT><DT>He called the Israeli attack and the U.S. actions a classic example of Murphy's law: "If anything can go wrong, it will." <DT><DT>David Hatch, a technical director at the National Security Agency, said, "The good news is that information long sought by researchers is now out, and the bad news is that it does not settle it." <DT><DT>The occasion for the State Department conference was the release of historical documents about the 1967 war in which Israel defeated the combined forces of Egypt, Syria, Jordan and other Arab countries in six days. <DT><DT>Charles Smith, a professor at the University of Arizona, said in his presentation that Israel should have known the Liberty was an American ship. <DT><DT>"If they didn't know, they didn't try hard enough to find out," he said. <DT><DT>James Bamford, an investigative journalist who has written about the incident, demanded further investigation "instead of people getting up here and giving their opinions." <DT><DT>"There were cover-ups," Bamford said, citing a signed affidavit by retired Navy Capt. Ward Boston, who was a leader of a military investigation into the incident. <DT><DT>Boston said in the affidavit in October that then-President Johnson and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara had told those heading the Navy's inquiry to "conclude that the attack was a case of `mistaken identity' despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary." <DT><DT>Boston, 80, who did not attend Monday's conference, said the Navy investigators were given only one week but still were able to amass "a vast amount of evidence, including heartbreaking testimony from young survivors." <DT><DT>Accusing Israel of a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and kill its crew, Boston said in a legal declaration in Coronado, Calif., that he was certain the Israel pilots knew the Liberty, which clearly displayed American flags and had markings in English instead of Arabic, was a U.S. Navy ship. <DT><DT>Additionally, Boston said, "Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned three lifeboats that that had been launched in an attempt by the crew to save the most seriously wounded - a war crime." <DT><DT>Jay Cristol, a U.S. bankruptcy court judge who has written about the incident, cited the finding of the Navy's inquiry as proof the attack was a mistake. "There was no indication they had any knowledge they were attacking a U.S. ship," Cristol told the conference. <DT><DT>If the attack were deliberate, its motivation remains uncertain. <DT><DT>Adm. Thomas Moorer, a former chief of naval operations and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, wrote in a memorandum on June 8, 1997, the 30th anniversary of the attack, that Israel deliberately attacked to hide its intentions in the war. <DT><DT>"I am confident that Israel knew the Liberty could intercept radio messages from all parties and potential parties to the ongoing war, then in its fourth day, and that Israel was preparing to seize the Golan Heights from Syria despite President Johnson's known opposition to such a move," Moorer wrote. <DT><DT>"I believe (then-Israeli Defense Minister) Moshe Dayan concluded that he could prevent Washington from becoming aware of what Israel was up to by destroying the primary source of acquiring that information, the USS Liberty." Israel took the strategic Syrian territory and still holds it 37 years later. <DT></DT></DL></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Mama]

Nice...the best you can come up with is a nearly 40 year old incident...
oh...and who poked the tiger to start that one up???

At least this time you're showing your true colors here...anti semite as they come...tell me...can I assume you'r neo nazi as well?

[greensideout]

Since when did quoting history and news reports become propaganda? The only spin I put on this is, "I know who the enemy is, do you??" In my humble opinion I think it speaks for itself!


You didn't answer my question, you just offered more propaganda. (Propaganda IS history and news reports). You are just using it to further your idea that Israel is the problem.
America has taken the war to the home of Islam rather then fight it on our soil. The Israelies have done the same. What is wrong with your brain housing group to figure that one out? !!

[10thzodiac]

Nice...the best you can come up with is a nearly 40 year old incident...
oh...and who poked the tiger to start that one up???

At least this time you're showing your true colors here...anti semite as they come...tell me...can I assume you'r neo nazi as well?


I'm not a Zionist or Nazi; I'm 5th generation American

If you like name calling try George Washington or Benjamin Franklin http://www.radioislam.org/islam/english/toread/frnklin.htm#washing

Sorry but you asked for it!

[Mama]

okay from 40 years to over 200 years???

geeze ... you really are a waste of time...

[junker316]

:devious: I will tell you that when Scuds were fired into Isreal that America paid off the Isreali Government to keep them out of it. That is the only reason Isreal didn't invade Iraq during Desert Storm. Saddam Hussein Wanted Isrial to attack because if they did Syria, Iran, Jordan, and the rest of the Muslum world would have come down on the US troops and Isreal like Flies on a Sh%t pile. Isreal waited until after the Sh5T hit the fan and was calmmed down enough before slamming the Palestinians for thier efforts against Isreal during the War. Making Gaza one of the bloodests places to live in the world. The Only reasons that Isreal ever left Gaza and Lebenon was because of the pay-offs they were receiving from the US and not because of it being a good deed. Isreal will do what it must to survive, no matter what the cost is to others (to include it's allies), and will do it effectively. I have many friends from Isreal that now live in the US and they were in the Isreali Army. They talk about things that was never shown on American NEWS channels and mainly because of what it portrayed America to be. Like having America paying off Isreali troops for sraying outside of the " peace " line of the Gaza Strip. When the pay-offs stopped that was when Isreal invaded Gaza with falsified facts of the PLO attacking them first, thus giving them the right to retalliate. Meaning that Isreal pushed the PLO into open confrontation by probing the lines of defense and harassing the PLO with intrusions that were unjustified. I could care less if Isreal ever is at peace with the rest of the world. Because of listening t what my friends said it didn't sound like Isreal wanted peace. My friend Dan is Jewish and never wants to go back to Isreal. He hated the falseness that his homeland gave to every-one else and thought that Germany paying Isreal every year on the dates of the Hallicost was a joke. Isreal is wanting more and more and will do what it takes to get it. I have nothing against Isreal for myself but to hear how Isreal is nothing less than what we are fighting against and getting away with it because supposedly they are GOD's chosen people is unreal. Isreal is strong and will always have to be because of being surrounded by nothing but enemies. Hopefully they can adjust to peace just as easily as they adjust to War. But it will take a Stronger Priminister than Sharon to do that.

[10thzodiac]

Nice...the best you can come up with is a nearly 40 year old incident...
oh...and who poked the tiger to start that one up???

At least this time you're showing your true colors here...anti semite as they come...tell me...can I assume you'r neo nazi as well?

Well I'm sure by now we know who the Zionist is, I happen to have allegence to America first, 5th generation American and my German/American Grandfather fought/wounded as a US Marine in France against Germany WWI.

Want to call somebody names, look up George Washington & Ben Franklin here: (Google)... "Who Runs USA today? Palestinians won't get their independence"

[10thzodiac]

You doubt my allegience to my country??? who the hell do you think you are?
My family has been on this soil since before the USA was the USA...it was still a colony of the Brits...my family's blood has spilt for our freedom in every single conflict...to 5th generation WHATEVER!

I'm not a zionist, but I do believe that Israel ahs just as much right to say stay the hell out of here to teh palestinians as we do to illegal immigrants...though I will say ... at least the mexicans coming in aren't blowing up our women and children...go figure...

Don't get into a tizzy, no one questioning your allegiance to this country. Just questioning why you and our government is so hell bent on spilling American blood for centuries old tribal warfare between Jews and Arabs. I'm just pointing out to the uninformed how Israel controls America and sucking us into their bidding against the Arabs. The Arabs are pis*ed at us for our support of Israel, but I don't think you believe that, or want too. Usama bin Ladin says it right here in his message to America: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A1C-B21F-2BC36E87F61F.htm "I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind." ~ Usama bin Ladin


P.S. I'm 5th generation by surname, but actually I have a grandparents that are English & German further back than that and some of my cousins with my last name are part American Indian and two were Marines and two Army (1 KIA)

:iwo:

[10thzodiac]

ya know what...
You go on believing that the arab/muslim "jihad" is just desserts for Israeli and Amercan actions then...

You are actually going to cite Bin Laden?

You can have the last word, good night Mama...:thumbup:

See you tomorrow, unless some terrible Jihadi's gobbles me up, before the Yahoodies do. :D

[10thzodiac]

:iwo:

[Gary Hall]

Marines; I've lived and worked in Arab nations and lived and worked in Israel, and many will call me Oilfield Trash, that maybeso and I also support Halliburton. I may be trash but I'm not as trashy as I might have otherwise become, without the US leadership in oilfield equipment, services and practices, that have since 1859 provided decent jobs for guys like me, by US domination of the industry. I have always been (since Harry Truman in 1948, my all time favorite US President) been a believer in and supporter of the Israeli people and the State of Israel. Kindest regards and SF. Gary Hall, Tyler, TX

[marinegreen]

Marines; I've lived and worked in Arab nations and lived and worked in Israel, and many will call me Oilfield Trash, that maybeso and I also support Halliburton. I may be trash but I'm not as trashy as I might have otherwise become, without the US leadership in oilfield equipment, services and practices, that have since 1859 provided decent jobs for guys like me, by US domination of the industry. I have always been (since Harry Truman in 1948, my all time favorite US President) been a believer in and supporter of the Israeli people and the State of Israel. Kindest regards and SF. Gary Hall, Tyler, TX



Gary,
Yes and No for me brother,Yes I support what you did to make a living,its called putting food on the table,some earn eenough to put steaks on theres where some earn enough for mac & cheese, its alot to do with that lucky star that life deals us.As far as haliburrton thats a BIG NO,Not only did they get caught ripping the taxpayer off(oh sure they payed there fine)but they made it back 10fold.I thinks its safe to say why they still got to stay there.I was in the fire protection industry for over 28 yrs and had worked on big projects thruout the westcoast and I know how general contractors get payed,once all the lil contractors tack on there percentage and it gets to the big guys the price really goes up upon billing.Plus we all know the politicians are lining there pockets in some shape or form(dont deny it).Life is about greed and power and yes it will be what destroys all of us.I read a article where Isreal says we'll(U.S.) will do whatever it tells us and that is a true statement.I'm all for democracy but to talk arrogantly like they did that just about sums it up for me,THEY CAN KISS MY AZZ,We were'nt the ones trying to fry the jews,that was hitler,why is it they think we owe them or why is it we think we owe them, hell if anybody should owe them it should be grermany.Now before I say more that would more then likely turn this into a political frolic I'll stow it cuz you know the ole saying; "WE'RE ALL RIGHTEOUS IN OUR OWN MINDS!" SF Brother/Sir

[10thzodiac]

Marines; I've lived and worked in Arab nations and lived and worked in Israel, and many will call me Oilfield Trash, that maybeso and I also support Halliburton. I may be trash but I'm not as trashy as I might have otherwise become, without the US leadership in oilfield equipment, services and practices, that have since 1859 provided decent jobs for guys like me, by US domination of the industry. I have always been (since Harry Truman in 1948, my all time favorite US President) been a believer in and supporter of the Israeli people and the State of Israel. Kindest regards and SF. Gary Hall, Tyler, TX


"the Jews have no sense of proportion," that "the Jews are very,very selfish," and that "neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog." ~ Truman

http://www.wymaninstitute.org/letters/2004-02-06-mom.php

[10thzodiac]

"the Jews have no sense of proportion," that "the Jews are very,very selfish," and that "neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog." ~ Truman

http://www.wymaninstitute.org/letters/2004-02-06-mom.php:thumbdown

[junker316]

There is an old joke that I know to show the difference between what is said and what is done. I was told this by a rabbi at a synague ( I can't spell this word right ) and he told me that if all Jews acted like this then they get what they deserve... A man of Mixed ancestry, one being Jewish and the other of Hispanic origin, was looking at a bicycle for his son. The retailer was very impressive about his knowledge of the bike and was very predictable about the price. The man said he would return later about the bike but had to think about it first. Once home he talked to his wife about the bike and described it in full detail. Then he asked her " should I steal it or just talk him down in price "? Two days later he got the bike for his son but at a far lesser price than was asked for it. Upon arriving home home he saw his son already riding a bike that was very similar to the one he got. He asked his son " howdid you get that bike "? The son replied " I stole it yesterday while it sat out front of the store". The father furious with anger said " now look at what you done...I spent money for this bike and you already have one . Now I'll have to resell this one to make a 50% profit to some sucker".

This joke is not to be taken as a racists statement, since it did come from a Jewish Rabbi, but to explain the thought of most Jewish people. My friend, who is like a brother to me, of Jewish and German origin has told me on many occasions that when he walks past a oven he doesn't know whether to run or throw himself in. He did the latter once while working for a pizza place because his boss always made snide remarks to him about being a Jew and he got fired for it. I thought it was hilarious of him to do it. And he did prove his point. I Asked him about it a few months ago and he said that he did it for two reasons...one was a bet that he wouldn't do it, which he made alot of money on, and the other was because his boss stated that all Jews belonged in Ovens. So when his boss opened the oven door and seen him there it must have been priceless. His Father says he will never return to Isreal because of the damage the Isreali nation causes it's own people and the way it looks down on the USA. I will be seeing this family once again in two weeks when I go to PA for a visit.

So for those that actually think that the Jewish nation has done no harm to those within it's own borders then you are sadly mistaken. I believe they have a right to defend themselves and America has a right to help them. But not that America must just because it is Isreal. The GOD chosen people. If that was the case then the entire Christian Community should back Isreal since they wish to be closer to GOD and let everything become a religious battle. A Crusade to call is rightfully. Once more if the Jews are GOD's chosen people then why not just let GOD deal with it and save ourselves the problems that are sure to come afterwards. To show you inpart of what I am trying to say is that in WW II there were Christians on both the AXIS and ALLIES sides killing each other for political beliefs. There were Jews on both sides killing each other for these same beliefs. Then when the Jews were sought out by Hitler and rounded up is when the Jewish people that were in the Third Reich Armies left and hid so that they themselves would not be turned in. They also helped in rounding up the Jewish populace for Hitler and the SS by buying time for themselves to flee Germany. This I learned on a First person basis by a Jewish Man and woman who lived very near to me in Germany in 1995. They wore the scares and marking of the Consentration Camps and described to me how they got put in there. Thier Nieghbor, of which was Jewish, had turned them in for not wearing the arm bands given to them by the German Government and then the nieghbor collected a monitary reward and was able to go into thier house to gather what ever they wanted from the family, whether to sell or keep, for themselves. When, not naming the family, they told me this I was very intrigued as to why a Jewish family would do that to another Jewish family knowing what was to become of them. I was then told by the woman that it was all because of greed and deceit. The other family believing in what the Third Reich stood for, until they were either rounded up or left Germany, TURNED against any Jewish Persons that did not do as they were ordered to do by Hitler. I tried not to talk much to them about it but they insisted that I learn the truth about the Jewish people and helped me understand one of the World's worst moments in History. I still call them, even though the man died some years back and talk to the woman. She is very old and getting worse but I still concider her to be as family to me. He sons and daughters are very nice and call me occassionaly to keep me up to date on her health and wishes. The Man only wanted some-one to listen to his " story " and I did. So at least he was able to share it with me and others who would listen. Now I share it with you if you will listen.

[10thzodiac]

When I played football in high school my three coaches were Jewish, they were really father figures second to none, my dad died my freshman year (PTSD related) WWII. They were Mr. Bernstein, Schwartz and Goodman the latter the Marine Captain. I still occasionally see Mr. Goodman the others has since passed. We are good friends and comrades in arms. He has told me that they should nuke all the Arabs but admits it is Israel's fault too. He has free air travel from a relative that works in the industry, but told me he has no desire to go to Israel because it is too dangerous.

I have a 1st cousin who always went around ranting, "the F'n Jews and the F'n N-word" surprised us by marring a Jewish girl. They have two boys that now have the same German surname as mine. When her mother found out she was marring a non-jew she was first told the boy was half Polish. The Mother exclaimed they're are bigger Jew haters than the Germans! I gave away the groom at the Jewish wedding blessed by a Catholic priest. I'm told that both of their sons were instructed never to tell anybody they are Jewish.

"The more I know people the less I know them."

10thzodiac

You go figure?

[Gary Hall]

Thank you Horselady for your reassuring and learned observations. Life experiences, in the Middle East, lead me to believe that America's real enemies are those who would not support the Israeli people and the State of Israel. One such personal experience dates from the 1980's when I had the privelege of living and working in Israel, on an Israeli drilling rig, operating in the Negev Desert. This was in the Biblical area of Beersheba, where Hagar's Time of Travail has been recounted. I would occasionally think of her and the circumstances of those of her era, and of those historical times. Trying to be brief this is my recollection: A drilling rig requires a lot of water to sustain its existance. To provide this, the Israeli Oil Co. (OEIL, spelling?, as I recall) laid a large diameter water line, 6" +/- from a now unremembered source somewhere to the North of the rig, I wish I could remember, but the line was a lengthy one several 10's of km's, to the drill site. The drillsite was an area of about 2 acres, and was enclosed by a wire fence. There were no guards or weapons on the drill site and there were never any conflicts, during my brief stay. The Negev was and is an expanse of burning sand and there were numerous flocks of sheep and goats being tended by youthful Arab shepherds, wearing the customary clothing complete with the Shepherds staff. While rigging up the Israeli drill crew had provided a lengthy watering trough placed outside the rig fence, with water 24 hours daily, solely for the animals and their shepherds. I remember the shepherds were all very young Arabs, probably in their pre-teen years. The first thing I noted was the discipline and courtesy and demeanor of the young shepherds as they tended their herds. Each evening about the middle of the afternoon, looking in all directions from the rig could be seen the shepherds bringing their flocks to the rig provided water troughs. As the numerous flocks approached the rig, I shall always remember the discipline provided by the young shepherds and also by the individual animals of the several flocks as they approached the water. There was no crowding about of the thirsty animals and shepherds, nor other selfish behavior. Almost wordlessly the individual shepherds and their flocks would defer to one another and patiently and quietly await their turns. I say that was a remarkable lesson in life, perhaps the children after all may show the way, given a chance. Something happens to some children, along the way of their lives, that results in tragedy and utter hopelessness. I shudder to think about the circumstances of having been born in the Middle East and of what therefore my children and grandchildren could have been exposed to. Yes, I have a 16 year old beautiful granddaughter and I shall always be thankful her life was exposed to American ways and American companies. And yes, thank you Lord for the likes of Earl P., Jay Taylor, Bill Baker and legions of other decent American individuals and companies. Marines, if you don't like Halliburton, who do you like? I could provide a lengthy list of unworthy non-contenders here, for your consideration, all of them of doubtful worthiness. I must believe worthiness is totally beyond subjective considerations, by definition.

The Arab youngsters and especially little girls deserve a better opportunity than what has been historically provided and this opportunity is what I hope will come out of President George Bush's determined effort. Kindest regards and SF, Gary Hall PFC 633178 W-3-1 1st Mar Div 1950 - 1951, Tyler, TX.

[Mike McIntyre]

Back to the topic, if you cannot figure whom the real enemy is at this juncture than a few comments on this thread will not do the trick. There seems to be an awful lot of bigotry and anti-Semitic rhetoric being bantered about. Look past your hatred for a moment and look at the facts: Israel pulled out of Lebanon 7 years ago. Israel pulled out of the Gaza over one year ago. Israel was rocketed without provocation. Israeli solders were killed and two were captured and taken into Lebanon. Iran and Syria have both supplied weapons used against Israel. Iran has called for the total destruction of Israel. All it will take to stop the fighting is the return of the soldiers.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Where does this make Israel the enemy? I wish the USA treated our Military with such dignity and high regard. We imprison Marines on hear-say. If some rag-head or the New York Times says it so than it must be so! This is WAR. You protect your own and By God you definitely support the “Boots on the Ground”!
IMO

[10thzodiac]

Back to the topic, if you cannot figure whom the real enemy is at this juncture than a few comments on this thread will not do the trick.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/21/60minutes/main618896.shtml


:iwo:

[marinegreen]

Oooorrrrahhhh Mike,Well said !!! Our politicians are panty waste.I just seen today where we cant dig up the lil girl so I guess its time to drop all them rape charges against them Troops.

[Mike McIntyre]

Can you tell me how some on this site can bash his own with such visceral comments?
I am not a Marine and I was never able to serve (Medical). Can one of ya’ll please explain to me how someone can go through the training, the experiences, and even battle with each other and then spew such anti-American, anti-military, and bigoted crap that I have ever read?
My father was a Marine and I hope my son makes it as a Marine (waiting on a waiver). Three of my brother-in-laws served in Nam and my sister served in Nam (Near China Beach) as an Army Nurse. My appreciation goes out to ALL who have served so that I can voice my opinion. And my prayers go out (every night) to All who are serving.
How great is this nation for giving us the right to have this site? And how much greater are the Marines for defending such a great nation? (All without complaining, with little pay, with less equipment, and with NO respect from the media) God bless America & God bless the Corps!

[horselady]

Yes, indeed, I know America's real enemies.....and Israel is NOT one of them.

Palestinians, what Palestinians?

The word "Palestinian" as a people is a myth. The only time these people existed was about 3000 years ago, and they were called Philistines, who had nothing to do with Arabs in Judea,Samaria and Gaza. A travel guide to Palestine and Syria was published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker; estimated the total population of Jerusalem at 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews. The same was in all Palestine. Arabs were a small minority and Jews have maintained an aboslute majority all 3000 years. As the Jews came and drained the swamps and made the deserts bloom, Arabs followed. They came for jobs, for prosperity, for freedom. And, they came in large numbers. That's how today's Arabs in Judea,Samaria and in Gaza have settled there. www.jpost.com


Occupied territories? No, spoils of war.

Palestinian is a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention of the 20th century. The "occupied territories" that were rightly claimed by Israel, were the result of wars perpetrated upon them and lost by their Arab neighbors, who simply did not want Israel to exist. Gaza was owned by Egypt, and there were no "Palestinians" then, and the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation." So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our Deaths until someone points out they're being taped.

Land for Peace? When pigs fly.

Israel, immediately following each war, offered to exchange the occupied land in return for nothing more than a treaty of peace. That's how Egypt got back the Sinai Peninsula. Now, in case you didn't know, the 1948 UN Mandate that created Israel out of British-ruled Palestine, also created an area now known as Jordan that was intended to become a state for the Arab (now Palestinian) refugees who did not want to remain in the new state of Israel. But the leaders of the New Jordan wanted it all for themselves and refused to share any of the land with these Arab refugees (soon to be Palestinians), and killed or ran out many thousands of them who tried to make their home in Jordan.

Palestinian concept of entitlements:

Truth is, they could 've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially a few years back with the Clinton-negotiated Oslo Accords. Arafat turned it down flat - a sweetheart deal that would have given him 95% of the Palestinian demands. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living. That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-haters in the region want: an established, thriving, oasis of prosperity in the desert: Israel.

Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth.

Israel is a strong American ally:

Israel is, next only perhaps to Britain, by far the most important ally of the United States. Virtually without exception, Israel’s government and its people agree with and support the foreign policy objectives of the United States. In the United Nations, Israel’s votes coincide with those of the United States over 90% of the time. The Arabs and other Moslem countries, virtually all of them recipients of American largess, almost reflexively vote against the United States in most instances.

Israel is the major strategic asset of the United States in an area of the world that is the cradle of Islamo-fascism, which is dominated by tyrants and permeated by religious obscurantism and shows almost total disregard for human rights. During Desert Storm, Israel provided invaluable intelligence, an umbrella of air cover for military cargo, and had personnel planted in the Iraqi deserts to pick up downed American pilots.

Gen. George Keagan, former head of U.S. Air Force Intelligence, stated publicly that “Israel is worth five CIAs,” with regard to intelligence passed to our country. He also stated that the yearly $1.8 billion that Israel received in military assistance was worth $50 to $60 billion in intelligence, R&D savings, and Soviet weapons systems captured and transferred to the Pentagon. In contrast to our commitments in Korea, Japan, Germany, and other parts, not a single American serviceperson needs to be stationed in Israel. Israel effectively secures NATO’s southeastern flank. Its superb harbor, its outstanding military installations, the air and sea lift capabilities, and the trained manpower to maintain sophisticated equipment are readily at hand in Israel. It is the only country that makes itself available to the United States in any contingency.
http://www.factsandlogic.org/ad_99.html

Case closed. http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage26/17.gif

[Mike McIntyre]

Outstanding Horselady!!!!!!!!!

[10thzodiac]

Outstanding Horselady!!!!!!!!!

"If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?" ~ David Ben-Gurion (First and third prime minister of Israel)

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

[Zulu 36]

I think you've taken Ben-Gurion's words out of context. He was speaking metaphorically; as an Arab might think, not an Israeli. He was recognizing his enemy's train of thought, but not agreeing with it.

An analogous metaphorical example might be: You will never agree with me. Why should you? You only see one thing: I've come and stolen your thunder.

Does that mean I agree you with after all? Nope, not one iota. I simply recognize your train of thought is vastly different than mine (and many others it would seem).

[junker316]

Who here truely knows who is America's biggest Enemy? Who here can say that Isreal is or isn't??? I can go by what I've been told by Jews that lived there and by what I learned. I can also go by my Combat experiences of the Arab nations and how our POWs are treated by them. But who is America's Biggest enemy??? It isn't Isreal or the Arabs. It isn't the Africans or the Asians. It is the American Government itself. America is dying from within not without. Yes the Isreali Priminister said that America will do as it is told to do by Isreal. Yet America follows it's own made up rules while trying to fight a War on Terrorism with it's hand bound and blindfolded. Isreal has every right to demand that the two soldiers are returned and if not to blast the living SH%T out of the nation that took them. But does America have a right to prosecute every service member for violating the Geneva Convention during a War that has no bounds for the Enemy???? Do you realize that since the signing of the Geneva Convention only America has followed it??? Be nice to POWs, Give thigns to the POWs, No torture, No harassment of the POWs, no needless killings of the POWs even if they try to attack you, Feed the POWs three times a day and respect thier religion. What kind of Enemy is bigger than one that kills it's own family while lining it's pockets with blood money they didn't earn???? Pres Bush is a freaking Idiot. Congress are all freaking idiots. The House and the Senate, to include the Surpreme Court system are all against it's own American lifesytle. Pres Bush changes things to appease other nations, Congress is to busy doing nothing than to correct the problems that exist, the Senate would rather debate on nonpressing issues than face pressing issues, The House itself relies on votes that mean absolutely noting to the American people, and the Surpreme Court system is just as corrupt as the rest of the branches of this dying great tree. The only reason America hasn't fallen as of yet is because Americans refuse to die without a fight. Not the Government because they would fall into a pit just because there was an dollar to made by doing it. Just the American populace is holding up against all this SH%T that our own " trusted " Government have so graciously given to every other nation but America. America hasn't recieved SH%T from any other nation without paying for it out ouir asses but our Government is more than willing to give everything away for free to nations that are trying to kill us while we sleep. I figure that by 2150 that America will be divided between Cananda and Mexico and they can fight it out to see who owns America then. Who will follow the Geneva Convention at that point and who will Govern a land that no longer exist. So to break the NEWS to ya all we are our own worst enemy. Because we willl let it all happen and hope for election day to come every 2-4 years to get one criminal out and elect another criminal in. There is no worse enemy than the one in your own back yard.

[horselady]

I figure that by 2150 that America will be divided between Cananda and Mexico and they can fight it out to see who owns America then. Who will follow the Geneva Convention at that point and who will Govern a land that no longer exist.

Well, now, there's a good reason to look forward to
taking that final "dirt nap."
http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage43/10.gif

[marinegreen]

I almost liked everything you said junker, right up until you typed in 2150,I think its safe to say that there isnt gonna be anyone here to fight out nothing, call me Mr. negative(I'm sure 10thzod will have sumbtin to say) but at the rate man is mess'en up this world we live on now, we'll be lucky to make it to 2020.SF

[10thzodiac]

Who here truely knows who is America's biggest Enemy? Who here can say that Isreal is or isn't??? I can go by what I've been told by Jews that lived there and by what I learned. I can also go by my Combat experiences of the Arab nations and how our POWs are treated by them. But who is America's Biggest enemy??? It isn't Isreal or the Arabs. It isn't the Africans or the Asians. It is the American Government itself. America is dying from within not without. Yes the Isreali Priminister said that America will do as it is told to do by Isreal. Yet America follows it's own made up rules while trying to fight a War on Terrorism with it's hand bound and blindfolded. Isreal has every right to demand that the two soldiers are returned and if not to blast the living SH%T out of the nation that took them. But does America have a right to prosecute every service member for violating the Geneva Convention during a War that has no bounds for the Enemy???? Do you realize that since the signing of the Geneva Convention only America has followed it??? Be nice to POWs, Give thigns to the POWs, No torture, No harassment of the POWs, no needless killings of the POWs even if they try to attack you, Feed the POWs three times a day and respect thier religion. What kind of Enemy is bigger than one that kills it's own family while lining it's pockets with blood money they didn't earn???? Pres Bush is a freaking Idiot. Congress are all freaking idiots. The House and the Senate, to include the Surpreme Court system are all against it's own American lifesytle. Pres Bush changes things to appease other nations, Congress is to busy doing nothing than to correct the problems that exist, the Senate would rather debate on nonpressing issues than face pressing issues, The House itself relies on votes that mean absolutely noting to the American people, and the Surpreme Court system is just as corrupt as the rest of the branches of this dying great tree. The only reason America hasn't fallen as of yet is because Americans refuse to die without a fight. Not the Government because they would fall into a pit just because there was an dollar to made by doing it. Just the American populace is holding up against all this SH%T that our own " trusted " Government have so graciously given to every other nation but America. America hasn't recieved SH%T from any other nation without paying for it out ouir asses but our Government is more than willing to give everything away for free to nations that are trying to kill us while we sleep. I figure that by 2150 that America will be divided between Cananda and Mexico and they can fight it out to see who owns America then. Who will follow the Geneva Convention at that point and who will Govern a land that no longer exist. So to break the NEWS to ya all we are our own worst enemy. Because we willl let it all happen and hope for election day to come every 2-4 years to get one criminal out and elect another criminal in. There is no worse enemy than the one in your own back yard.

Sooner or later by their very nature *they will over do it, like they did in every country they have been in... when that time comes in America who will protect them then horselady?

In the state of Illinois here in America there are 700,000 American families living on $10,000 or less a year...it wont be long now... and I bet none of their handles are "horselady" as they having a hard enough time feeding their kids than let alone a horse.

Unfortunately you may not be just whistling Dixie with that caviler statement of yours, "Well, now, there's a good reason to look forward to taking that final "dirt nap." ~ horselady

*"the Jews have no sense of proportion," that "the Jews are very,very selfish," and that "neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog." ~ Truman

[yellowwing]

10th Zodiac, did a Hebrew shoot your dog or steal your wife? Why the angst?

[10thzodiac]

According to recently defected Mossad (Israeli CIA) agent Victor Ostrovsky: <br />
&quot;By way of deception thou shalt do war.&quot; <br />
<br />
<br />
The Israeli Ambassador was in the United States today giving a soap box...

[yellowwing]

So what does all this have to do with you personally? Your own words, not some reprint of other peoples thoughts, please.

[003XXMarineDAD]

So what does all this have to do with you personally? Your own words, not some reprint of other peoples thoughts, please.
10th only has quotes , no thoughts of his own other then being a gas bag.:D

[10thzodiac]

So what does all this have to do with you personally? Your own words, not some reprint of other peoples thoughts, please.

I've showed on this thread that I had good feelings for my Jewish/American High School coaches and admired them as father figures. Gave my first cousin away at a Jewish wedding and earlier posted a thread how allegedly Jews were denied the Medal of Honor because they were Jews.

I don't have the stomach to kill innocent people no matter what race or nationality they are. I am inter-racially married myself to the grand daughter of two Japanese Samurai.

As a union steward there was an incident that comes to mind, a Palestinian worker in my shop came to me and was complaining about our German born ass hole of a boss whose father fought at Stalingrad and was hosed by a Russian machine gun. The complaint went like this, he wanted to know if I heard the boss tell him, "if it wasn't for your people selling your women to the Jews we would have a pure race now!" The Palestinian replied, I don't give a fuk that happened a million ****** years ago." I told him I heard his reply to the boss but not what the boss told him. He told me if I did, he could get him fired (his buddy a Palestinian was the shift foreman over our boss). I disliked this German ass hole boss myself even though my surname is German we didn't get along. My point is allot of us Germans are running around with Jewish blood, maybe even me. Do I dislike it, the only thing I ever disliked about my ancestry was being Polish because of the jokes, but with age and a German surname it doesn't bother me anymore. Not to mention my God savior is Jewish by baptism.

As a union steward I represented two Jewish co-workers as they were being fired. One was a Puerto Rican and played the Jewish card because his boss was also a German. The German boss's answer floored everybody, he said he was a Jew too. The Puerto Rican was fired; he was still on his probationary period and not officially in the union. The other guy/gay same story except with my boss.

I was fired by the union as steward, according to my Jewish lawyer they had a right to protect themselves from me. I filed a petition with the NLRB and led
a 250 man shop to decertify the present union and start my own union. I hired a real good Jewish law firm and they fought the good fight. We were going up against not only a big union but a corporate giant that wanted status quo, not me and my union. After we lost the corporation's top lawyer from their New York headquarters told my lawyer this was the biggest labor problem that had since the union first came in. The union was horse sh*t thats why I tried de-certifying. You should of seen the strike later that year, I was on the news, I quit shortly after that and went into my own business with the same Jewish lawyer above as my corporate lawyer. He's a character and we we get along maybe because he's a German Jew (just joking).

Ah, now to Israel and America. The computer is a powerful tool and half of the stuff I posted here is from bits and pieces that stuck with me over the years before having a computer; the computer just reaffirmed stories and elaborated on them. The thread took a life its own and became a lightning rod. The other half was learned and posted in the spirit of posting and counter posting with my pundits. I even surprised myself how much information about the subject I was picking up while counter posting. In my opinion they would of done better to ignore the thread in hindsight.

Oh, my Jewish cousin's wife. My grandmother died and made me the executor of her estate. Long story short she and her husband were in a position to help me divide my grandmothers estate (they had it) to the heirs. Well, you know what she told me, do you have an inventory? I did the best I could without their help for the other heirs and I took no inheritance and even lost money plus buried my grandmother at my expense alongside her husband downstate a days drive a German/American who was a US Marine who was wounded terribly by Germans in France WW I and hung himself at Great Lakes Naval Hospital afterwords.

My Dad told me that when he was going to trade school pre WW II he had a German/American instructor that was always cranking the class up about Hitler and the Fatherland, well one day my Dad bought him a ticket to go go back if it was so dam great! True story!

In summation, I think the Jews should get the hell out of there and come here or other places in the world that could use their talents, they are smart people. Just think if they migrated to Mexico they would have that place humming with jobs and the Mexicans wouldn't have to leave their homeland anymore to get a decent job. I always said religion enslaves minds and hardens hearts. In my opinion, it is not America's fault or
responsibility to take care of Israel or get sucked in by their cleverness to fight for them.


AMERICA FOR AMERICA NOT ISRAEL

[yellowwing]

Thank you for a well thought out answer. It makes better overall sense. I still don't agree, but I can see the point.

[10thzodiac]

Thank you for a well thought out answer. It makes better overall sense. I still don't agree, but I can see the point.

I remember being up so long on fire missions without sleep (FDC) that I fell asleep on duty between fire missions right in front of the Battalion Commander. Ouch!

If I keep this up late at night the wife might start thinking I found another girlfriend. :thumbup:

She tells me she never thinks about divorce just murder!:banana: I imagine she is not the only one after my threads. My memories far outweigh what I have left on this earth and the most important thing I've learned is peace. Peace is more important than anything else.

Peace (God)
Family
Country
Corps
:usmc:

ZZZZZZzzzzzzz......

[horselady]

In summation, I think the Jews should get the hell out of there and come here or other places in the world that could use their talents, they are smart people. Just think if they migrated to Mexico they would have that place humming with jobs and the Mexicans wouldn't have to leave their homeland anymore to get a decent job. I always said religion enslaves minds and hardens hearts. In my opinion, it is not America's fault or
responsibility to take care of Israel or get sucked in by their cleverness to fight for them.


AMERICA FOR AMERICA NOT ISRAEL

Yes, America should be for America, but if it starts turning its back on its
staunchest allies, it will no longer be America.

But for argument's sake, imagine that Israel never existed. Would the economic malaise and political repression that drive angry young men to become suicide bombers vanish? Would the Palestinians have an independent state? Would the United States, freed of its burdensome ally, suddenly find itself beloved throughout the Muslim world? Wishful thinking.

The stagnation and hopelessness in the Arab world are homegrown, starting with lack of freedom, absolute autocracies, bogus elections, and constraints on civil society. Freedom of expression and association are also sharply limited as is knowledge: Sixty-five million adults are illiterate, and some 10 million children have no schooling at all. As such, the Arab world is dropping ever further behind in scientific research and the development of information technology. Female participation in political and economic life is the lowest in the world. Economic growth will continue to lag as long as the potential of half the population remains largely untapped.

But let's pretend that we could wave a mighty magic wand, and “poof,” Israel disappeared from the map, say in 1967, instead of occupying the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Would Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their possessions to Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat and thrown in Haifa and Tel Aviv for good measure? Not likely. The two potentates, enemies in all but name, were united only by their common hatred and fear of Arafat, the founder of Fatah (the Palestine National Liberation Movement) and rightly suspected of plotting against Arab regimes. In short, the “root cause” of Palestinian statelessness would have persisted, even in Israel’s absence.

Even in the war with the new state of Israel in 1948, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon marched on Haifa and Tel Aviv not to liberate Palestine, but to grab it. If they had been victorious, a Palestinian state would not have emerged, and there still would have been plenty of refugees. Assuming that Palestinian nationalism had awakened when it did in the late 1960s and 1970s, the Palestinians might now be dispatching suicide bombers to Egypt, Syria, and elsewhere.

Those who think that the Middle East conflict is a “Muslim-Jewish thing” had better take a closer look at the score card: 14 years of sectarian bloodshed in Lebanon; Saddam’s campaign of extinction against the Shia in the aftermath of the first Gulf War; Syria’s massacre of 20,000 people in the Muslim Brotherhood stronghold of Hama in 1982; and terrorist violence against Egyptian Christians in the 1990s.

Will Hamas disband once Israel is gone? Hardly. Hamas has bigger ambitions than eliminating the “Zionist entity.” The organization seeks nothing less than a unified Arab state under a regime of God.

A common scapegoat, Israel is the only thing that prevents Arab modernizers and traditionalists from tearing each other's societies apart. Fundamentalists vie against secularists and reformist Muslims for the fusion of mosque and state under the green flag of the Prophet. And a barely concealed class struggle pits a minuscule bourgeoisie and millions of unemployed young men against the power structure, usually a form of statist cronyism that controls the means of production. Far from creating tensions, Israel actually contains the antagonisms in the world around it.

Would the Islamic world hate the United States less if Israel vanished? First of all, the notion that 5 million Jews are solely responsible for the rage of 1 billion or so Muslims cannot carry the weight assigned to it. Second, Arab-Islamic hatred of the United States preceded the conquest of the West Bank and Gaza. Recall the loathing left behind by the U.S.-managed coup that restored the shah’s rule in Tehran in 1953, or the U.S. intervention in Lebanon in 1958. As soon as Britain and France left the Middle East, the United States became the dominant power and the No. 1 target. Is this situation because of Israel—or because it is so convenient for these regimes to “busy giddy minds with foreign quarrels” (as Shakespeare’s Henry IV put it) to distract their populations from their dependence on the “Great Satan”?

[GunnyL]

America's biggest enemy is "The enemy within", Liberals in our own country are the biggest problem facing America.

GunnyL

[Zulu 36]

An excellent posting Horselady. Straight to the core issues.

Among the intra-Muslim wars could be added the Iraq-Iran war (to which the Shi'a massacre after the Gulf War was actually a postscript) and all sorts of smaller, hardly reported in-fighting. Saudi Arabia also has their own little war with the bin Laden mob who views the Saudi government as a US puppet (publically), but really a serious religious disagreement exists and the US issue just adds to it.

[10thzodiac]

Yes, America should be for America, but if it starts turning its back on its
staunchest allies, it will no longer be America.

But for argument's sake, imagine that Israel never existed. Would the economic malaise and political repression that drive angry young men to become suicide bombers vanish? Would the Palestinians have an independent state? Would the United States, freed of its burdensome ally, suddenly find itself beloved throughout the Muslim world? Wishful thinking.

The stagnation and hopelessness in the Arab world are homegrown, starting with lack of freedom, absolute autocracies, bogus elections, and constraints on civil society. Freedom of expression and association are also sharply limited as is knowledge: Sixty-five million adults are illiterate, and some 10 million children have no schooling at all. As such, the Arab world is dropping ever further behind in scientific research and the development of information technology. Female participation in political and economic life is the lowest in the world. Economic growth will continue to lag as long as the potential of half the population remains largely untapped.

But let's pretend that we could wave a mighty magic wand, and “poof,” Israel disappeared from the map, say in 1967, instead of occupying the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Would Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their possessions to Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat and thrown in Haifa and Tel Aviv for good measure? Not likely. The two potentates, enemies in all but name, were united only by their common hatred and fear of Arafat, the founder of Fatah (the Palestine National Liberation Movement) and rightly suspected of plotting against Arab regimes. In short, the “root cause” of Palestinian statelessness would have persisted, even in Israel’s absence.

Even in the war with the new state of Israel in 1948, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon marched on Haifa and Tel Aviv not to liberate Palestine, but to grab it. If they had been victorious, a Palestinian state would not have emerged, and there still would have been plenty of refugees. Assuming that Palestinian nationalism had awakened when it did in the late 1960s and 1970s, the Palestinians might now be dispatching suicide bombers to Egypt, Syria, and elsewhere.

Those who think that the Middle East conflict is a “Muslim-Jewish thing” had better take a closer look at the score card: 14 years of sectarian bloodshed in Lebanon; Saddam’s campaign of extinction against the Shia in the aftermath of the first Gulf War; Syria’s massacre of 20,000 people in the Muslim Brotherhood stronghold of Hama in 1982; and terrorist violence against Egyptian Christians in the 1990s.

Will Hamas disband once Israel is gone? Hardly. Hamas has bigger ambitions than eliminating the “Zionist entity.” The organization seeks nothing less than a unified Arab state under a regime of God.

A common scapegoat, Israel is the only thing that prevents Arab modernizers and traditionalists from tearing each other's societies apart. Fundamentalists vie against secularists and reformist Muslims for the fusion of mosque and state under the green flag of the Prophet. And a barely concealed class struggle pits a minuscule bourgeoisie and millions of unemployed young men against the power structure, usually a form of statist cronyism that controls the means of production. Far from creating tensions, Israel actually contains the antagonisms in the world around it.

Would the Islamic world hate the United States less if Israel vanished? First of all, the notion that 5 million Jews are solely responsible for the rage of 1 billion or so Muslims cannot carry the weight assigned to it. Second, Arab-Islamic hatred of the United States preceded the conquest of the West Bank and Gaza. Recall the loathing left behind by the U.S.-managed coup that restored the shah’s rule in Tehran in 1953, or the U.S. intervention in Lebanon in 1958. As soon as Britain and France left the Middle East, the United States became the dominant power and the No. 1 target. Is this situation because of Israel—or because it is so convenient for these regimes to “busy giddy minds with foreign quarrels” (as Shakespeare’s Henry IV put it) to distract their populations from their dependence on the “Great Satan”?

In my humble opinion only fools would live in the mist of a people they describe the way you and others do and expect America to help them. The Islamic way of life is their concern and ours not theirs, who are we to judge? As distasteful Islamic society may be to you, you do not have the God given right to meddle or try to change it. What ever problems America have with the Arabs in the hypothetical case you describe quote, "if Israel never existed", they would still have to sell their oil distasteful or not distasteful for either party.

Would you move into a neighborhood with your family where you were greatly out numbered and despised and hated by your neighbors 24/7 or planned on staying there long because some story teller told you this land is God given to you. Only someone that is from radically waring tribes of Abraham whose minds have been enslaved by religion and hearts hardened by it would. That's none of my FGD business though, unless you try to suck me and my country into your ancient tribal warfare. Sorry!

Unfortunately, I have a life besides sitting at a computer for hours on end and I must tend to some matters before my wife starts thinking about murder again.

God Bless America and your country too whatever it be!

My next thread will be on how 7000 Marines where on a "Secret Mission" in 1964 that could of ended the Vietnam War. I was there. Stay tuned...

SF
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~jy6q/Boston/Whale%20Watch/American%20Flag.JPG

[Zulu 36]

Guns,

Let us call our liberal "friends" what they really are: Barely disguised Marxists/Communists, still trying to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

[Mike McIntyre]

A good way to judge who is right and who is wrong is to ask the question, “Where would you rather live with your family and why, Israel or the countries that are trying to bring her down?” Think, do you want your wife, daughter, sister, son living in: Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, UAE, etc.?
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
So I guess Israel is causing all the unrest in: Africa (I think the ONLY reason that we are not there is because of skin color and oil), South of Russia, Asia, and even Europe. If you are Christian in some of these areas you are doomed. In some areas of Africa, Lighter Muslims are killing Darker Muslims.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
For those who think the US is our own worst enemy, why are our borders constantly being overrun? If you are upset, then vote the bums out, ALL of them. Push for term limits and get involved. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I remember growing up in the South hearing, “I’m not prejudice, <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I am concerned with who a man is, what he believes, and does he have my back? I don' t care who his parents were? <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Edited by me....the drifter (Ellie)

[horselady]

America's biggest enemy is "The enemy within", Liberals in our own country are the biggest problem facing America.

GunnyL

I agree wholeheartedly, Gunny!

[horselady]

Would you move into a neighborhood with your family where you were greatly out numbered and despised and hated by your neighbors 24/7 or planned on staying there long because some story teller told you this land is God given to you. Only someone that is from radically waring tribes of Abraham whose minds have been enslaved by religion and hearts hardened by it would. That's none of my FGD business though, unless you try to suck me and my country into your ancient tribal warfare. Sorry!



God Bless America and your country too whatever it be!




I probably would not move into such a neighborhood, however, had my
ancestors been living there continuously for thousands of years (many of those years in harmony with their Arab neighbors) I can see how I would feel no obligation to leave. What's more, since Islam only dates back some 2000
years and the Hebrews' more than 5000 years, who moved into whom's
neighborhood?

As for sucking another country into some "tribal warfare," look what we're
doing to try to eek out some semblance of democracy in other parts of
the Middle East. We never fought a war to establish democracy in Israel,
it chose to be one, and as I've described at length above, is one of America's
strongest allies.

Just don't forget, we've never gone to war against a democracy.

I am a Jew but my country is America to which my loyalty lies and for which my father, brother, & 5 uncles have proudly served, in WWll, Korea, and Vietnam. My husband is a USMC Vietnam Vet (WESTPAC Ground Force, 3rd Marine Amphibious Force, 1st Marine Div., FMF, 1966-68)

Semper Fi.

[Gary Hall]

Horselady: Your comments and insights are much appreciated and admired and respected and I hope will prevail in the ongoing Global strife and struggle. Your vote and influence will be appreciated. Kindest regards and SF, Gary Hall, Tyl er, TX

[horselady]

Horselady: Your comments and insights are much appreciated and admired and respected and I hope will prevail in the ongoing Global strife and struggle. Your vote and influence will be appreciated. Kindest regards and SF, Gary Hall, Tyl er, TX

It's people like you who do all the hard work,
and deserve the admiration and respect.
All I am able to do is write about it.

I mentioned this once awhile ago, but it bears repeating.
Maybe you have some ideas:

I have been gathering many “feel good” stories (from both Marines and soldiers) currently/previously stationed in Iraq, as well as from blogs and military websites - stories that the American public never or rarely ever gets to hear. They are NOT the usual Marine/soldier-as-hero-on-the-battlefield stories, or about how many insurgents were killed on a particular day, but rather they tell of the interpersonal relationships that are being formed every day between Iraqi citizens and American troops.

For instance, one amazing story that virtually went ignored by the civilian media, was about that little (3 or 4-yr. old) Iraqi girl who sat herself down in the middle of the road and refused to budge as a USMC convoy approached. She had just witnessed a mine being planted in the road by some insurgents and was sitting there to prevent the convoy of Marines from running over it. Imagine the impact this story would have had on Americans desperately looking for any bit of positive news about the war?

I am sending those kinds of stories to national talk radio show hosts with the
largest audiences who always complain that the media only reports bad news.

I have about 2 dozen like this, but if you know of any more, please advise.

Thanks.

[10thzodiac]

I probably would not move into such a neighborhood, however, had my
ancestors been living there continuously for thousands of years (many of those years in harmony with their Arab neighbors) I can see how I would feel no obligation to leave. What's more, since Islam only dates back some 2000
years and the Hebrews' more than 5000 years, who moved into whom's
neighborhood?

As for sucking another country into some "tribal warfare," look what we're
doing to try to eek out some semblance of democracy in other parts of
the Middle East. We never fought a war to establish democracy in Israel,
it chose to be one, and as I've described at length above, is one of America's
strongest allies.

Just don't forget, we've never gone to war against a democracy.

I am a Jew but my country is America to which my loyalty lies and for which my father, brother, & 5 uncles have proudly served, in WWll, Korea, and Vietnam. My husband is a USMC Vietnam Vet (WESTPAC Ground Force, 3rd Marine Amphibious Force, 1st Marine Div., FMF, 1966-68)

Semper Fi.

Fortunately the neighborhood I live in has changed for the better. Most of new my neighbors are Hispanic and they are 10 X better than the Anglo's that left. If my Anglo neighbors ever decide to move back, I'd would move in a f'n heart beat. Of the reaming Anglos on both sides of my street/block there is only two ass holes left not counting me number three. I'm not going to mention their ethnic heritage but its none of the above. I had a garage sale last year and the ass hole (ancient feud) kitty corner across the street from me called the cops on me for blocking the street one lane with my car to accommodate my garage sale shoppers. The next day I called the cops on him for having a commercial dump truck parked in a residential zone. After the cops left we got into it verbally him attacking that I'm only a flag wavier (My American & Marine Corps Flag that flies everyday in front of my house) my Japanese/car (wife) that he buys American, blah, blah. I went to the middle middle of the street and told him I was going to kick his ass till his nose bled.
He wasn't for that. Well, later I went to that powerful tool the computer and did some checking. Ah-ha, that SOB's property tax profile was completely inaccurate by many tens of thousands of dollars. It was listed as frame one story 25X35, no fireplace, no garage, no central air and no garage. All of the aforementioned was not true. Here's the kicker, he does not principally reside there his daughter & son-in-law do. I'm sure he's taking a homestead exemption there (more expensive of the two properties he owns) that requires his residency there under penalty of perjury. Well guess what I did:D :banana: :iwo:

Don't get mad, just get even, the SOB won't even look at me anymore. Oh, his big bad son-in-law who just got back from the middle east who's in the army reserves that tells everybody he's in special forces glares at me when he sees me, lol...maybe someday...

I have the most craziest son-in-law in the F'n world. The guy is utterly fearless, wants to fight everybody coming and going. He loves to fight! He can't even go to Mc Donald's without getting into a fight. Both my son and daughter have first degree black belts in Japanese full contact karate and are afraid of him. When he gets Pi*sed at me (often) I put a gun at my front and back door, by my lazy boy chair, one in the garage and carry one. My son told him, if he F's with him he's going to shoot his whole family, his sister too. Another hot head.

Took him to Universal Studios Fla. once he got into a fight with Hercules there. Three fights in a week. Not to mention road rage...

Definite Marine Material, unfortunately for the Corps he's 4-F (heart valve) but my grandson, his boy 7 y/o is just like his dad and has been wrestling since 4 y/o and just as fearless as his dad pushing around bigger and older boys than him even at wrestling and every time he comes over he wants to see my guns.

SF

[Mike McIntyre]

Is this for real? Did I miss something? I was not aware that being hot headed, vindictive, and racial were USMC attributes? I was hoping for Courage, Honor, Duty, Loyalty, and Country.

[Osotogary]

Are Anger Management Classes out of the question? LOL
It seems to me that you live an very interesting life fraught with a lot of stress and strain. I don't know how you can maintain such a high level of intensity on a daily basis. I guess...good for you if you can do it. I can't or should I say, I don't allow myself be on the hostility clock 24 hours a day. If I did I'm convinced I would have been dead no later than the 1970's. Stress sucks. Like I said, good for you.
Adios from South Florida

[10thzodiac]

Is this for real? Did I miss something? I was not aware that being hot headed, vindictive, and racial were USMC attributes? I was hoping for Courage, Honor, Duty, Loyalty, and Country.

So many Marines here have attested that the movie "Full Metal Jacket", "Jarhead" and may I add "Boys in Company "C" were similar to their Marine experience. Are you brain dead?

Where did you see racial as part of my post of Marine material, I know what you are missing, firing on all four cylinders.

I was hoping for Courage, Honor, Duty, Loyalty, and Country does make good copy:thumbup:

Remember what Chesty said, "Take me to the Brig. I want to see the real Marines."

Maybe it was the Brownies you were in?

[10thzodiac]

Are Anger Management Classes out of the question? LOL
It seems to me that you live an very interesting life fraught with a lot of stress and strain. I don't know how you can maintain such a high level of intensity on a daily basis. I guess...good for you if you can do it. I can't or should I say, I don't allow myself be on the hostility clock 24 hours a day. If I did I'm convinced I would have been dead no later than the 1970's. Stress sucks. Like I said, good for you.
Adios from South Florida

63 1/2 non-smoker and in good shape no Viagra, but I'm sure if I hang around long enough, something will get me. I'm heavily insured and the wife might be happier. A Jewish lawyer told me (before my Workman's compensation testimony) never say you can't, the only thing you can't do is not die and opposing consul will screw you around till hell freezes over with the word can't.

SF

[FistFu68]

:D JUST HAD DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE,U.S.MARSHAL'S GO GET THE PLT. ROSTER FROM PLT.394~MCRD~SAN DIEGO~1960~WILL FIND OUT THE REAL DEAL! HAVE A NICE DAY!:D :banana:

[Mike McIntyre]

Where did you see racial as part of my post of Marine material, I know what you are missing, firing on all four cylinders.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>

A Jewish lawyer told me (before my Workman's compensation testimony)
<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I've showed on this thread that I had good feelings for my Jewish/American High School coaches

<O:p></O:p>
Palestinian worker in my shop came to me and was complaining about our German born ass hole<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I represented two Jewish co-workers as they were being fired. One was a Puerto Rican and played the Jewish card because his boss was also a German.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Most of new my neighbors are Hispanic and they are 10 X better than the Anglo's that left.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I rest my case!<O:p></O:p>

[horselady]

Fortunately the neighborhood I live in has changed for the better. Most of new my neighbors are Hispanic and they are 10 X better than the Anglo's that left. If my Anglo neighbors ever decide to move back, I'd would move in a f'n heart beat. Of the reaming Anglos on both sides of my street/block there is only two ass holes left not counting me number three. I'm not going to mention their ethnic heritage but its none of the above. I had a garage sale last year and the ass hole (ancient feud) kitty corner across the street from me called the cops on me for blocking the street one lane with my car to accommodate my garage sale shoppers. The next day I called the cops on him for having a commercial dump truck parked in a residential zone. After the cops left we got into it verbally him attacking that I'm only a flag wavier (My American & Marine Corps Flag that flies everyday in front of my house) my Japanese/car (wife) that he buys American, blah, blah. I went to the middle middle of the street and told him I was going to kick his ass till his nose bled.
He wasn't for that. Well, later I went to that powerful tool the computer and did some checking. Ah-ha, that SOB's property tax profile was completely inaccurate by many tens of thousands of dollars. It was listed as frame one story 25X35, no fireplace, no garage, no central air and no garage. All of the aforementioned was not true. Here's the kicker, he does not principally reside there his daughter & son-in-law do. I'm sure he's taking a homestead exemption there (more expensive of the two properties he owns) that requires his residency there under penalty of perjury. Well guess what I did:D :banana: :iwo:

Don't get mad, just get even, the SOB won't even look at me anymore. Oh, his big bad son-in-law who just got back from the middle east who's in the army reserves that tells everybody he's in special forces glares at me when he sees me, lol...maybe someday...

I have the most craziest son-in-law in the F'n world. The guy is utterly fearless, wants to fight everybody coming and going. He loves to fight! He can't even go to Mc Donald's without getting into a fight. Both my son and daughter have first degree black belts in Japanese full contact karate and are afraid of him. When he gets Pi*sed at me (often) I put a gun at my front and back door, by my lazy boy chair, one in the garage and carry one. My son told him, if he F's with him he's going to shoot his whole family, his sister too. Another hot head.

Took him to Universal Studios Fla. once he got into a fight with Hercules there. Three fights in a week. Not to mention road rage...

Definite Marine Material, unfortunately for the Corps he's 4-F (heart valve) but my grandson, his boy 7 y/o is just like his dad and has been wrestling since 4 y/o and just as fearless as his dad pushing around bigger and older boys than him even at wrestling and every time he comes over he wants to see my guns.

SF

I think I missed something, Zodiac. Either because I am a dumblonde or I just can't figure out where you're going here? However, I am more than familiar with the hothead Marine personality as I married one. In fact when I first met him (several years out of the Corps), he told me he was a "trained killer!" LOL
Even to this day, when I startle him (because he didn't hear me enter the room or something), he assumes the old "offensive position" crouched with
imaginary rifle in his hands aimed at my head! He'll have that "if looks could kill" look in his eyes for a split second, until he realizes it's me, but I understand that those same instincts are what helped him survive in combat.

I'm sure there's a logical analogy to be made between your neighborhood and Israel's, but I've obviously missed it so maybe you could explain it to me in simpler terms?

[Zulu 36]

Yeah, I'm missing something in those posts too. But, I have picked up a few things.

First, we're trying to discuss the Middle East with an anti-semite and U.S. security with a liberal/socialist/Marxist/all of the above.

Second, the whole thrust of 10thZodiac's posts remind me of the long-haired hippy types, who claimed to be Vietnam vets, and represented the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. I had numerous dealings with those VVAW characters in Iwakuni and Okinawa. They talked just like Zodiac writes as they tried to proselyte young Marines. In fact, their cute little periodic "newsletter" reads almost like Zodiac's posts. Just as vulgar and full of vindictive "argument supporting" quotes out of context.

Either that or he has fallen on his head once too many times. This is my excuse.

Regardless, this is my last post on the subject.

[horselady]

See PM


Yeah, I'm missing something in those posts too. But, I have picked up a few things.

First, we're trying to discuss the Middle East with an anti-semite and U.S. security with a liberal/socialist/Marxist/all of the above.

Second, the whole thrust of 10thZodiac's posts remind me of the long-haired hippy types, who claimed to be Vietnam vets, and represented the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. I had numerous dealings with those VVAW characters in Iwakuni and Okinawa. They talked just like Zodiac writes as they tried to proselyte young Marines. In fact, their cute little periodic "newsletter" reads almost like Zodiac's posts. Just as vulgar and full of vindictive "argument supporting" quotes out of context.

Either that or he has fallen on his head once too many times. This is my excuse.

Regardless, this is my last post on the subject.

[BigCat1]

Zodiac...you are about the most anti-semetic person I have ever encountered....you really need to get a grip on reality and the reality of the situation over there. How anyone as anti-semetic as you were ever allowed the privalege of serving in my Marine Corps is beyond me.

[junker316]

Every-one here has already declared thier final feelings on this. Some think that Isreal has undermined America and wishes for us to go on a rampage with them in destorying Lebenon, Gaza, and the rest of the Muslum Nations surrounding them. Others believe that Isreal is just defending what is rightfully thiers and even may have the right to reclaim land lost over a thousand years ago. The thread was " DO YOU KNOW WHO IS AMERICA"S WORST ENEMY" not " Do you know if Isreal or the Arabian Nations are right". We all have exclaimed our views and added to this issue without even a notion of what the answer may be. Some have used words of others against them and even quoted others to prove a point. But the final facts are laid out as this...
1. Will America back Isreal if the Isreali go to far?

2. What does Isreal have to gain from all this except a Jihad against them from awaiting Muslum Nations?

3. Who knows really who is America's worst Enemy?

4. At what point do we all decide that America's worst enemy needs exterminated?

5. Who is going to be around do it when the time comes?

6. When is the History lessons going to stop and the facts come out?

7. What kind of world are we leaving to our childern?

8. Finally...what are we teaching our childern to do?

I believe that if we as parents teach our childern that all people of this world have a right to live in peace and harmony then maybe we as parents have just granted our families a better gift than by teaching them that War and Death of those that don't agree with us are to be the final judgement. It doesn't really matter who is America's worst enemy until America has some-one in office that is respouncible enough to run America for Americans and not for the lining of thier own damn pockets. Between the Liberal, the extreme left wingers, and the anti Americans in America we have enough of the worst enemies here. People who disrepect the funeral proceedings of a service member that died fighting for America. people who only see green as the color of the ole mighty dollar. People who are willing to send others to war while thier own bank accounts increase from the spoils of it. And those losing life and blood trying thier best to create a peaceful world for all to live in and upon returning home not able to receive the treatment needed to help them establish thier own lives again after what they have done. We as Americans have been forced into being the World's Police Force for so many years that when we do try to do our best and create a peaceful solution to an issue some-one wants paid for it. You don't see Russia paying off terrorists to keep them at bay from it's cities and people...you don't see other realible nations doing it either. But yet America has had it's ample time to secure a future for itself and allowed those within to corrupt it and dismantle it until now we are faced with border problems, Illegals running throughout our land, Massive Drug problems, under manned police forces facing off with criminals that have better weapons than they do, Higher rates over the last ten years, and the possiblity that our grand childern or great grand childern may face off with our nieghbors to the north and the south to reclaim America for themselves. Those who believe that America owes them for whatever happened to thier families hundreds of years ago. The rich people childern believing that it is the job of the working class and poorer peoples childern to defend America while they go out and live up life with no worries because Mommy or Daddy will pay for everything, Not to mention other things. So unless you can answer my question..." WHO IS WHO'S WORST ENEMY?????" I think that this thread is done.

Every-one made good points about what they thought. I applaude the effort to maintain a decent article to discuss. But no-one can see with blinders on and until they take them off the light will never come into thier eyes. I am a Marine and if being a Marine would puts me in some sort of disadvantage then so be it. I will always defend my Country and my family. I love my Country but think those who are in power right now are doing nothing for it except lining thier pockets with blood monies earned by those of us who been there and done that. Semper Fi.

[Pialphamu]

[quote=Zulu 36]

Either that or he has fallen on his head once too many times. This is my excuse.

[quote]
ROFLMAO!!;)

[horselady]

Every-one here has already declared thier final feelings on this. Some think that Isreal has undermined America and wishes for us to go on a rampage with them in destorying Lebenon, Gaza, and the rest of the Muslum Nations surrounding them. Others believe that Isreal is just defending what is rightfully thiers and even may have the right to reclaim land lost over a thousand years ago. The thread was " DO YOU KNOW WHO IS AMERICA"S WORST ENEMY" not " Do you know if Isreal or the Arabian Nations are right". We all have exclaimed our views and added to this issue without even a notion of what the answer may be. Some have used words of others against them and even quoted others to prove a point. But the final facts are laid out as this...
1. Will America back Isreal if the Isreali go to far?

2. What does Isreal have to gain from all this except a Jihad against them from awaiting Muslum Nations?

3. Who knows really who is America's worst Enemy?

4. At what point do we all decide that America's worst enemy needs exterminated?

5. Who is going to be around do it when the time comes?

6. When is the History lessons going to stop and the facts come out?

7. What kind of world are we leaving to our childern?

8. Finally...what are we teaching our childern to do?

I believe that if we as parents teach our childern that all people of this world have a right to live in peace and harmony then maybe we as parents have just granted our families a better gift than by teaching them that War and Death of those that don't agree with us are to be the final judgement. It doesn't really matter who is America's worst enemy until America has some-one in office that is respouncible enough to run America for Americans and not for the lining of thier own damn pockets. Between the Liberal, the extreme left wingers, and the anti Americans in America we have enough of the worst enemies here. People who disrepect the funeral proceedings of a service member that died fighting for America. people who only see green as the color of the ole mighty dollar. People who are willing to send others to war while thier own bank accounts increase from the spoils of it. And those losing life and blood trying thier best to create a peaceful world for all to live in and upon returning home not able to receive the treatment needed to help them establish thier own lives again after what they have done. We as Americans have been forced into being the World's Police Force for so many years that when we do try to do our best and create a peaceful solution to an issue some-one wants paid for it. You don't see Russia paying off terrorists to keep them at bay from it's cities and people...you don't see other realible nations doing it either. But yet America has had it's ample time to secure a future for itself and allowed those within to corrupt it and dismantle it until now we are faced with border problems, Illegals running throughout our land, Massive Drug problems, under manned police forces facing off with criminals that have better weapons than they do, Higher rates over the last ten years, and the possiblity that our grand childern or great grand childern may face off with our nieghbors to the north and the south to reclaim America for themselves. Those who believe that America owes them for whatever happened to thier families hundreds of years ago. The rich people childern believing that it is the job of the working class and poorer peoples childern to defend America while they go out and live up life with no worries because Mommy or Daddy will pay for everything, Not to mention other things. So unless you can answer my question..." WHO IS WHO'S WORST ENEMY?????" I think that this thread is done.

Every-one made good points about what they thought. I applaude the effort to maintain a decent article to discuss. But no-one can see with blinders on and until they take them off the light will never come into thier eyes. I am a Marine and if being a Marine would puts me in some sort of disadvantage then so be it. I will always defend my Country and my family. I love my Country but think those who are in power right now are doing nothing for it except lining thier pockets with blood monies earned by those of us who been there and done that. Semper Fi.

Thank you for your service junker. I appreciate your viewpoint, and even agree with many of your issues about what is wrong with America. I agree that many of those with a lot of money allow others not so fortunate to serve in the armed forces while they stay behind...but not everyone. You should read "Warload" by Ilario Pantano, one of your fellow Marines. But we have a volunteer military now, and from what I've heard, it is a far superior military to what it was when we had the more equitable draft.

People who disrespect funerals for fallen heroes should be thrown in jail to rot for the rest of their lives in my opinion. Returning veterans should be entitled to everything they need in order to resume their lives and I would take it away from the leeches of society, the able-bodied welfare recipients and single, unemployed mothers whose 6 kids are all from different fathers.

AS for whether Russia pays off its terrorists, I don't know, but if they are, it isn't working. The Saudis paid off the terrorists yet even they have been the targets of terrorism. And yes we have a big problem with illegals but the country is finally waking up to it and getting angry which is already changing the tone of Congress, no longer so willing to give away amnesty without securing the borders first. The Senate bill is DOA that would have allowed amnesty and the House bill, for security first and maybe in a few years consider what to do with the illegals already here, is gaining support from both parties.

As far as people getting rich off war or the stock market or any other way,
that is the nature of a free, capitalistic society. It isn't always fair to everyone but everyone has the same opportunity to succeed if they want to
badly enough. Winston Churchill said it best,"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery."

Israel, the US, and the rest of the free world, are fighting an idealology of hatred, a 7th century culture, bent on destroying society as we know it. Yes, it is a clash of civilizations and war with a religion that has its basis in forcing everyone to believe in it and if they will not, they must be killed.

Their MO comes right out of their holy books, i.e., the Qur'an:

Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”

Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Qur’an 8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Qur’an 8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”

Qur’an 8:73 “The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims) aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah’s religion victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause (al-Jihad), as well as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid—these are (all) Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise).”

Qur’an 47:4 “When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”

Qur’an 4:74 “Let those who fight in Allah’s Cause sell this world’s life for the hereafter. To him who fights in Allah’s Cause, whether he is slain or victorious, We shall give him a reward.”

Qur’an 4:78 “Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers strong and high! So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?”

Qur’an 4:104 “And do not relent in pursuing the enemy.”

Qur’an 8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.
If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”

Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, they shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering.

There is no negotiating with peope who are willing to die and take everyone
else with them for their cause. They keep telling us this and if we don't take them seriously, they will take us over, maybe not in a year or ten years, but as we've seen, the Muslim fanatics have infinite patience. We have a military code of justice, rules of engagement, Geneva conventions as well as our own Judeo/Chrisitan beliefs. They have the Qur'an.

Which shall prevail?

[10thzodiac]

:D JUST HAD DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE,U.S.MARSHAL'S GO GET THE PLT. ROSTER FROM PLT.394~MCRD~SAN DIEGO~1960~WILL FIND OUT THE REAL DEAL! HAVE A NICE DAY!:banana:

If you had a brain you would be dangerous
:thumbdown

I'm really scared, this is the INTERNET and I am the department of justice maggot.


lol

[greensideout]

10thzodiac---You have worn many of us thin (at least me) with your attack of Jews, Israel, Germans and just about anybody you can come up with to start trouble. Therein lies the problem! It seems that you are on a quest for trouble. Strange however, that you do not have a problem with the people that America is fighting? The same enemy that Israel is fighting. Maybe you should be on an Islamic web site?

[10thzodiac]

[quote=Zulu 36]

Either that or he has fallen on his head once too many times. This is my excuse.

[quote]
ROFLMAO!!;)


I'm not crazy, I just act that way

XOXOXO

oh ! the doorbell is ringing do you think it is the US Marshal to come get me?


Thats the trouble with arguing with 5 year olds you begin to act like one yourself. Next he's going to say he has a brother in the air force and he's going to get the whole US Air Force on me...wonder if it is an IQ problem?

[thedrifter]

A few folks, have warned out this thread,except for attacking each other...WHICH IS NOT TOLERATED>.....

So I'm putting it out of commission....

You have problems with each other do it thru...PM's and Emails without harassing each other...NOT ON A PUBLIC FORUM...

THIS THREAD IS CLOSED>>>>

Ellie

Some Folks Need to Learn Respect for Each others OPINIONS without Attacks;)