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GearheadJLM
07-08-06, 11:23 PM
Alright, sorry for this pathetic bull ****, but I need some advice, and I need to know if I'm getting bull **** from my recruiter or not. Alright, I was ready to ship and just had my contract switched over to reserves so I could do PLC. I was ready to ship, and had my ship date changed from July 17 to July 10. However, I have not recieved my diploma yet, I had one test left to take, however, my recruiter says that I passed without taking the test, and that my diploma will come while in boot camp, or I may need to take the test after basic. However, I am extremely uncomfortable with leaving without my diploma in hand. Also, my little sister was hospitalized last night and is somewhat dependant on me now. I want to leave as soon as possible, but just not without the diploma, and I would also feel even better if I could atleast help my sis through her first few days of recovery. Now my recruiter says if I don't ship then I will be discharged and unable to ever be in the military. I need advice, and really quick...

Echo_Four_Bravo
07-08-06, 11:34 PM
I can't say for sure, but it sounds like the recruiter is being less than honest. To begin, I can't see how he can decide if you pass or fail a course. Unless he is the instructor he doesn't control that. And, unless you've finished your year in the DEP I cannot see why you would have to ship on that day. Tell him you want to talk to the SNCOIC if you don't get an answer from one of the recruiters here. Hopefully Sixguns or another person with recent recruiting experience will see this post and answer quickly.

GearheadJLM
07-08-06, 11:43 PM
The NCOIC of the Recruiting station told me that I would be discharged and not able to have anything to do with to military what so ever. My recruiter (who has proven to be irresponsible, unfaithful, and simply an *******) and the NCOIC clams that they talked to the school about my finial test and that my average grade, even without the final, was passing, however, I have been trying for about two weeks to get intouch with somebody at the school, and have been unsuccessful. I'm really trying to watch my ass and make sure I can line things up for a successful future with college and the Marines. My plan is PI, MOS (food service specialist) training, start college second semester, get into PLC, earn degree, get commissioned, then serve my active duty time, hopefully 20 years. Several of my family members, one of which was in the Air Force and the other in the Army, both told me to wait for my diploma. I just don't want my future to get ****ed because of some jackass recruiter, who has already lost my respect get some ****ing number....

GearheadJLM
07-09-06, 12:04 AM
At this point I wish I could just say screw this, find a new recruiter, and tell him exactly what I want to do, under what terms and start over. My recruiter has done nothing but **** me off. I needed to earn 9 high school credits this last school year so that I could go, but not only that, but I was homeless for part of the year, had some issues with my housing situation, and all this other BS, I busted ass and did it, I was ready to take my last test and ship out, then I couldn't get in touch with my counsler...My recruiter, in my eyes, is completely out of line. I busted ass to get referrals, set up time for him to speak to class rooms, he would call me and tell me he couldn't come, I would give him numbers, Hell, he didn't even come to my school once this school year, the other day on my way up to MEPS he handed out beer to the poolees, and drank one himself while driving like a ****ing ass hole. Not to sound like a ****ing adult or anything, but that does not show me a responsible, disclipined, mature Marine, or civillian for that matter. This may not matter, but god damn I just want to make the right damn decission and don't want to get ****ed, how the **** hard is that?

GearheadJLM
07-09-06, 12:08 AM
I know it sounds like I'm just getting nervous about shipping, but I may want to tell you that thats not the case. I cannot wait to ship! I've read books, talked to countless people, and done my research. I went from not being able to run a 1/2 mile at a time, to now running 3 miles solid every day before I work 12 hours laboring. I have grown up in a house hold, getting beat, yelled at, and cussed at were nothing was good enough. I'm more then ready, just want to get started right....

junker316
07-09-06, 02:35 AM
Check on something else...you stated that you talked to his " NCOIC ". There are higher ranking than that in charge of him and his NCOIC. Ask to speak to one of them even if you have to go as far as to speak with his Commanding Officer. You will have to voice your concerns and let theem hear it from your mouth. I wouldn't go anywhere without Diploma in hand and have taken the test. Passing is one thing but to pass with a higher average is something different. I think that your recruitor is full of it and trying to pressure you into going sooner than you really want to. Don't let this get to you and make the right decision.

GySgtRet
07-09-06, 10:12 AM
YOU ARE SPOT ON MARINE. Chain of Command. It has to be done that way till everything else is exhausted.

GearheadJLM
07-09-06, 11:28 AM
I just told the NCOIC my decission to stay. I requested the 24th or as soon as I get my diploma in hands and I get at least a week to help my sister through recovery. He said he'll tell his CO my decission, and that I will be discharged. I asked him if I could speak to the CO, and he said "no, that's my job." I'm not sure who to talk to from this point, or how to get in touch with them. Should I try to call the Gunny at MEPS in the morning and explain my situation to him? Something tells me that he's not gonna tell that CO about my diploma or sister being hospitalized, and that I just ****'d out. But I don't understand why he would tell me that, when they are willing to go so far for their numbers, or can I exspect him to come back to me soon and tell me that he worked things out with the CO and I can ship later? Or is their anyway I could just go through somebody higher up? I highly appreciate the advice and you for taking your time to help me out, as I told GySgtRet, I'm just watching my back and trying to line thing up for my successful future involving the Marines, college, and career. My goal is to get my diploma, go to basic, go to MCT and job training, start college and get accpeted into PLC, get my degree, get commissioned, go active, hopefully until I retire. My recruiting station has been making this hell for me.

Thank you, for your time and advice, as well as what you have done and continue to do for our country,

Joe

GearheadJLM
07-09-06, 12:44 PM
A Gunny just called me, asked me about my situation, I explained, we compromised on the 17th, so I'm happy with that, I'll at least be able to talk to my school counsler to see if what my recruiter and the NCOIC is telling me is true. Also it'll give me a week to help out with the recovery of my sister. Thank you guys again for the advice!

Joe

GySgtRet
07-09-06, 12:46 PM
You are very Welcome future Devil Dog. Please take care of your sister and other problems so you won't have as many to deal with when you get to Parris Island.

Echo_Four_Bravo
07-09-06, 12:56 PM
Leave it to a Gunny, busting his butt on the weekend.

Marine84
07-09-06, 09:37 PM
OK - I'm a little confused here.................I mean I understand the sister thing unless there are parents that are taking care of this already- it's the diploma thing that's got me doing the puppy look (you know, when you say something to a dog and he cocks his head?)

When I graduated, we had a ceremony and my diploma was handed to me right then - are you like going about graduating a different way or something? Even still son, it's only a piece of paper and a recruiter can't tell you whether you've graduated high school or not.

Could you give me a little more info?

GearheadJLM
07-09-06, 10:28 PM
Alright, here's the break down:

During high school I decided school was less important then work, screwed up, and got behind on credits. Come the end of my junior year I wanted to get my **** together and started to think about my future. So I started looking into the military. After doing my research I decided I wanted to be a Marine. Come the begining of my senior year I was 9 credits short of graduating. The only way to get it all done was to have a full schedule and take three correspondence courses (kind of like home schooling) on top of it. Not only were they just credits but I needed three english and some other major subjects. Also I don't come from a very well housing situation. By second semester I was homeless, and taken in by a family of a girl I dated since 8th grade. This is the girl I called my sister. This family help me get back on my feet, and with out them I would have been able to get as far as I did. Now I finished and passed all my classes, and finished all my correspondence, except for one 15 minute test. Now for the last three weeks I have been unable to get in touch with ANYONE about taking my last test. Now even without the test my average should be able passing. This is what the NCOIC says. He clamed that he talked to somebody from the school and that they said that I graduated, just haven't received my diploma yet. Now I have no idea how they talk to anyone in the school because I have not been able to and when I went there the sign said that they're closed until the 10th. Basically the NCOIC said that my diploma will come while I am in basic and worse case scenerio I will have to take the test when I get back from basic training. Now, I am due to ship on the 17th, and hopefully I can get it by then, Michelle my "sister" is home and we are taking care of her, and by the 17th I will feel comfortable leaving her, cause she will be fine. Now, if I don't get my diploma over this week what do I do, cause I really don't want to break another committment on time, should I tell my recruiter tomorrow that I'll leave as long as I get the diploma, so that it's not a surprise, and maybe he'll help me get in touch with somebody, or do something? I'm anxious as hell to go, I just worked to hard for that diploma, and don't want to get screwed. Other then that I think I got a good contract and plan.

Also let me ask you guys what you think about this and if it not some BS my recruiter and NCOIC are giving me. Alright, now, I ship, the go staight to MCT then MOS training, come home, start college, get accepted in PLC, and my recruiter said I get the choice to be a active (deployable) reservist, or an inactive (not deployable) reservist as long as I get into the PLC and remain in it. They gave my the options of infantry or food service specalist, and I didn't want infantry, so I took the 3381. They said something about that my MOS wouldn't matter once in PLC, which I didn't understand, because I'll probably be an active reservist during the school year.

tkmac58
07-10-06, 04:13 PM
Alright, here's the break down:

During high school I decided school was less important then work, screwed up, and got behind on credits. Come the end of my junior year I wanted to get my **** together and started to think about my future. So I started looking into the military. After doing my research I decided I wanted to be a Marine. Come the begining of my senior year I was 9 credits short of graduating. The only way to get it all done was to have a full schedule and take three correspondence courses (kind of like home schooling) on top of it. Not only were they just credits but I needed three english and some other major subjects. Also I don't come from a very well housing situation. By second semester I was homeless, and taken in by a family of a girl I dated since 8th grade. This is the girl I called my sister. This family help me get back on my feet, and with out them I would have been able to get as far as I did. Now I finished and passed all my classes, and finished all my correspondence, except for one 15 minute test. Now for the last three weeks I have been unable to get in touch with ANYONE about taking my last test. Now even without the test my average should be able passing. This is what the NCOIC says. He clamed that he talked to somebody from the school and that they said that I graduated, just haven't received my diploma yet. Now I have no idea how they talk to anyone in the school because I have not been able to and when I went there the sign said that they're closed until the 10th. Basically the NCOIC said that my diploma will come while I am in basic and worse case scenerio I will have to take the test when I get back from basic training. Now, I am due to ship on the 17th, and hopefully I can get it by then, Michelle my "sister" is home and we are taking care of her, and by the 17th I will feel comfortable leaving her, cause she will be fine. Now, if I don't get my diploma over this week what do I do, cause I really don't want to break another committment on time, should I tell my recruiter tomorrow that I'll leave as long as I get the diploma, so that it's not a surprise, and maybe he'll help me get in touch with somebody, or do something? I'm anxious as hell to go, I just worked to hard for that diploma, and don't want to get screwed. Other then that I think I got a good contract and plan.

Also let me ask you guys what you think about this and if it not some BS my recruiter and NCOIC are giving me. Alright, now, I ship, the go staight to MCT then MOS training, come home, start college, get accepted in PLC, and my recruiter said I get the choice to be a active (deployable) reservist, or an inactive (not deployable) reservist as long as I get into the PLC and remain in it. They gave my the options of infantry or food service specalist, and I didn't want infantry, so I took the 3381. They said something about that my MOS wouldn't matter once in PLC, which I didn't understand, because I'll probably be an active reservist during the school year.
First of all let me understand the situation: 1. You joined the Dep program in your senior year, was it during the summer? (school closed) , did your recruiter obtain your transcripts with a will-grad letter? did that letter reflect the difficulties you were having in school? as far as shipping w/o a diploma and finishing it when you return, it doesnt matter, the Marine Corps has room for non-grads, tier 2s, and tier 3s, we call them. Not allot of room but some, especially in the reserves.. As far as your recruiter and NCOIC there concern is to make there ship mission and put you in boots. As far as your diploma that your friggan job, you not graduating or being credits shorts is your own fault. Its not up to the recruiter nor the Marine Corps,, its your baby if you wanr it. As far as PLC.... WTF, you struggled in High School, do you honestly think you could ever make it or for that matter be even qualified for PLC, OCS, give me break I dont care how smart you are. As far as an MOS between a cook and a grunt, a grunt is the only way. If by some miracle of god you become an officer your MOS is chosen by us, and most become ground officers,, ie infantry, artillery etc. You have no choice its about our needs that support us. My advice is look at why you joined to begin, get the officer idea out of your head until you successful finish something and as a reservist, infantry is def the right route. Besides youll be deployed anyway unless your not saying everything. As far as college its good to have but if you couldnt hang is HS , college is a MF, even after Marine boot camp. And your diploma go get it when you get time. Honor your commitment, ship to boot camp and quit f...king worrying. If you find this e-mail threatening you dont belong in the Corps dude..../

TKMAC58

GearheadJLM
07-10-06, 05:05 PM
First off, I understand I had trouble with high school, but my test scores are all high enough for PLC. I have the right mind set to make it through college, through PLC, and to become an officer, after that I could give a rats ass weather I'm a grunt or a cook. I've made up my mind, I told my recruiter today that I'm not leaving without that diploma in my hand. I'm going to college and will become an officer, that's what I will do, and I'm not gonna get ****ed by some recruiter trying to make a number.

tkmac58
07-10-06, 05:38 PM
First off, I understand I had trouble with high school, but my test scores are all high enough for PLC. I have the right mind set to make it through college, through PLC, and to become an officer, after that I could give a rats ass weather I'm a grunt or a cook. I've made up my mind, I told my recruiter today that I'm not leaving without that diploma in my hand. I'm going to college and will become an officer, that's what I will do, and I'm not gonna get ****ed by some recruiter trying to make a number.
You sound rel f---king passionate, and thats a good thing, what test scores are you talking asvab, GT/EL or the SAT/ACT. This is only the beginning.. listen I am not picking on you, I put several Marines in the PLC program, the highest ranking is a Major who went through PLC Aviation. I am a fromer Recruiter/NCOIC/Operations Chief/Meps Laision/Recruiter Instructor, I have been retired for about a year, I ran the largest states in the midwest, I am not supporting the Marines behavior(if its true). allot of the Marines on this website dont have the true picture. Does the Marine Corps need you to go to boot camp because of a ship mission, hell yes, can they overlook your diploma, yes! Should you, No! Can the do an education extension on you for 60, 90, 120 days, yes, with the proper procedure, ie. a new set of transcripts, daily or weekly grade reports of progress etc. This can all be done but first of all its going to take a sit done with this recruiter you have no respect for and his NCOIC. What would I do, I would thrash your ass and give you an extension and have you in my office studying and cleaning ****ters until you ****ing graduated, not the recruiter, its not his ship mission its mine. This advice is only what I can give because I dont know what is going on in the RS/RSS operational structure. As far as PLC I hope you make it, its a great opportunity, I never wanted to be a "zero" evn though I finished my degree many moons ago. I love the enlisted man POV and brotherhood. Dont get me wrong the Corps has the finest officers in the world, with the exception of "John Murtha", he was probably good before he got his back pocket padded by lobbyists. I am probably(I assume) one of the most senior former recruiters on this website (most recent experience) I still talk to all of my former District Friends all the way up to a 1 Star, I can give advise as long as I know what the circumstances are in your recruiting substation and as long you are honest. You can give me shout(on line) as long as you give me the play by play. I don give a f....k if the recruiter is a drinking, corrupt, cheating bastard, I just want to hear what I can help with. If your recruiter has these problems, it will catch up with him sooner or later. Not to make any excuses but he may not be cut out for the glory of recruiting, he may have family problems, NCOIC problems, maybe he wasnt screened to come out on this duty properly, maybe he was avoiding deployment. But maybe he is one hell of a Marine in the fleet and this **** sucks. Without knowing I really dont know, I will always give the benefit of doubt to every man that has served.

Marine84
07-11-06, 09:14 AM
Why did you choose the Corps? Why do you want to be an Officer? What is it that you're hoping to achieve in the long run? What makes you think you'll even make it through bootcamp?

tkmac58
07-11-06, 10:05 AM
Why did you choose the Corps? Why do you want to be an Officer? What is it that you're hoping to achieve in the long run? What makes you think you'll even make it through bootcamp?
Marine 84 you definitely motovate me, you tell it like it is!! Brings back memories. In your earlier posts you said you were a winger, did you ever do WTI in beautiful Yuma back in the 80s, every winger went to WTI. Any way keep the faith we may change some hearts and minds yet.

Semper
TKMAC58

Marine84
07-11-06, 11:13 AM
Oh yeah - I did Yuma - only did 21 days but those were the most awful 21 days in the Corps for me. 100 and some odd degree weather building bombs in that bomb dump - bleh! I had a farmers tan from hell!

Echo_Four_Bravo
07-11-06, 01:43 PM
Yuma was great. Of course, with my MOS we spent our time in Yuma living in tents in the desert... but that was part of the fun. Did 3 WTI's, and wouldn't mind doing another one. Of course, the saddest part is that I did a double CAX and then went to Yuma all three times. Almost enough to make you forget what trees and grass look like.

tkmac58
07-11-06, 02:34 PM
Yuma was great. Of course, with my MOS we spent our time in Yuma living in tents in the desert... but that was part of the fun. Did 3 WTI's, and wouldn't mind doing another one. Of course, the saddest part is that I did a double CAX and then went to Yuma all three times. Almost enough to make you forget what trees and grass look like.
Are you still in the reserves in Broke Arrow Oki. I see in your profile you a political consultant, of course in Oklahoma that means a republican/conservative adviser. I am your next door neighbor in the North, you know Kansas. Believe me when I tell you this its not my home state, thats doesnt mean its a bad place, its just different. Its flat, hot and cold, it doesnt want to make any good changes ie. gambling, new restaurants, entertainment etc, at least where I am at. Of course these are things I like as I age and grow up. This was my twi-light tour, put out to the pasture type of thing, but all the good ole boys, red necks, right wingers (which I am) grows on you. Its not quite like Oki but its close. Example: During the 2004 Presidential election me and my Marines were on the net montoring each state as the polls closed, Oklahoma's election was over by noon, GW was already elected by a good margin. Thats what I call decisive, it was a good thing. Oklahoma City also has the best looking woman per capita in the US, not I am a dirty old man but I am a Male Marine. Anyway I got off subject , you were talking about WTI, I was stationed in Yuma from 81 - 83, went to Lebanon, Okinawa, and came back in 85-86 after DI school. In 81 it was a party place, this was before El Toro shut down and all you had was VMAT-102 , VMFAT-101, and the Harriers 513, a Macs, Hams, Laam Bn(there in mothballs now), an H&HS. It was a small family of about 4000, and when WTI came in we were alive, the bars, the wash(beach). And your to young to remember Reds place in Winterhaven, it was a f----ing dump but was packed with Marines and woman on Friday and Saturday night after the bars closed, especially since it was in Cali and the bars close at 0200, in Yuma they closed at 0100 and with the time change it was 2 more hours of alcoholics anonymous meetings if you even went home. Boy did we have a drinking problem back than. Now a days Yuma has very few bars and of course the Corps looks down on what we did back than and the drinking age has changed. I guess if you can handle the heat and speak a little spanish it would be a good place to live... Sorry if I gave you my life story . all of a sudden I want to share the best years of my life with absolute strangers(well not completely, ie Marines).

Semper
TKMAC58

sgt tony
07-12-06, 02:05 AM
Ok you have signed your contract and have a mos so to keep that you will have to ship when they say or they can dischrage you from this and no other service will work because you breached your contract. I know you are in a tough spot but if you want to be in then you will need to ship.
If you are going reserve then it would be no problem if you hade to take that test after boot camp. I hope that you understand you have made that aggrement with the Marines and the want you to keep your word as that is how they will keep up there end.
If you think it is tough now just wait the Marines will keep you up and going. Because you signed that contract.
Semper Fi
Tony
Retired Marine
Recuriter Dallas Tx

Echo_Four_Bravo
07-12-06, 02:41 AM
MSgt, I was only with the TOW Co. in Broken Arrow for a few months, reserve life wasn't for me. Of course, now a few years later and I am considering giving it another shot.

It sounds like Yuma has changed a great deal since you were first there. But, the atmosphere is much the same. Johnny's Other Place was always the Marine trap in town. The woman knew there were young Marines in town with per diem, and they liked having young stupid kids with more money than they knew what to do with. Of course, I don't remember any of the Marines complaining about it either.
I guess there are more units at MCAS Yuma now than there were then. But, I have no way to really know. I was with MWCS-28 (which was full of radio guys from 2nd LAAM- they had to find a home somewhere when it went away). I never knew what flying units were even on our base, much less the ones we visited. Seems like we never got along real well with Wingers- they liked to tell us we were too dirty to go in the PX when we got back from a training exercise.

Old Marine
07-12-06, 08:38 AM
At this point I wish I could just say screw this, find a new recruiter, and tell him exactly what I want to do, under what terms and start over. My recruiter has done nothing but **** me off. I needed to earn 9 high school credits this last school year so that I could go, but not only that, but I was homeless for part of the year, had some issues with my housing situation, and all this other BS, I busted ass and did it, I was ready to take my last test and ship out, then I couldn't get in touch with my counsler...My recruiter, in my eyes, is completely out of line. I busted ass to get referrals, set up time for him to speak to class rooms, he would call me and tell me he couldn't come, I would give him numbers, Hell, he didn't even come to my school once this school year, the other day on my way up to MEPS he handed out beer to the poolees, and drank one himself while driving like a ****ing ass hole. Not to sound like a ****ing adult or anything, but that does not show me a responsible, disclipined, mature Marine, or civillian for that matter. This may not matter, but god damn I just want to make the right damn decission and don't want to get ****ed, how the **** hard is that?

1. Last time I checked, the Marine Corps was not hurting so bad for bodies that they will let someone off the street dictate to them how and when they will serve their country.

2. Sounds to me like you are carrying around a lot of baggage and if you still happen to be carrying it if and when you get to Boot Camp, you better lose it really fast young man or your Drill Instructors will lose it for you. Simple as that, without any hesitation.

Marine84
07-12-06, 09:11 AM
I'm still waiting for answers to my questions from him...................WHY GEARHEAD?

tkmac58
07-12-06, 10:53 AM
Ok you have signed your contract and have a mos so to keep that you will have to ship when they say or they can dischrage you from this and no other service will work because you breached your contract. I know you are in a tough spot but if you want to be in then you will need to ship.
If you are going reserve then it would be no problem if you hade to take that test after boot camp. I hope that you understand you have made that aggrement with the Marines and the want you to keep your word as that is how they will keep up there end.
If you think it is tough now just wait the Marines will keep you up and going. Because you signed that contract.
Semper Fi
Tony
Retired Marine
Recuriter Dallas Tx
Tony

I know what your saying but he will not be discharged fro breach of contract(per say), he will be discharged for failure to report,or Apathy( a term the Corps like to use because he lost interest or moto and backed out). Neither is a show stopper for further service nor from another branch. You see in todays recruiting they sign only a delayed entry contract, swear in, and prep for boot camp up to 365 days. The day they ship report to Meps they swear in a second time and belong to MEPCON/MCRD in route to Recruit Training, this is when they can legally charge you if you dont show or refuse to play. Should the first swearing in count, hell yes. According to the MPPM(Enlistment and accession reule book) it is a Morally and leaglly binding contract, but it goes on to say that we cannot force anyone to horor there commitment until the second swear in. This all came about after the draft ended and the volunteer force went into effect, and the fact that we would have to spend allot of time and money on people who didnt want to go. We lose 14-25 % per year to people who dont ship, of course some of it is drugs, education, medical, and moral(criminal). This adds up to quite a bit considering we enlist 35,000 to 40, 000 new recruits per year. That allot of lawyers and money and time wasted on people that dont want to be Marines or they were not sold to begin with. Other factors are fear, the media, parents, girlfriends and boyfriends and probably the worst "the Recruiter didnt tell him the truth" ie. did he join for some pipe dream or promise we cant keep. I e-mailed this young to let him know that before he ships he has got to want it, despite what he thinks of the recruiter he needs to sit down with the SGTMAJ, CO or NCOIC abd figure out what the real reason he is is backing. I know you were a recruiter and I have told many kids that they need to ship or else, but in todays gen it has to be done this way or your taxes will go down the tubes and we will force person who doesnt want to be there and eventually, maybe, will discharge after thousands were spent to send him. We need to send the ones that want to be Marines, it isnt like the 70s and 80s were when a recruit arrive he just adapted and eventually he loved it. Thsi is a different griup and believe they all know they can quit.

Semper
TKMAC58

Marine84
07-12-06, 11:25 AM
FINALLY - somebody else that WANTS them to WANT it - I know I feel better at night knowing that the ones that guard my house WANT to do it.

tkmac58
07-12-06, 11:43 AM
Tony

I know what your saying but he will not be discharged fro breach of contract(per say), he will be discharged for failure to report,or Apathy( a term the Corps like to use because he lost interest or moto and backed out). Neither is a show stopper for further service nor from another branch. You see in todays recruiting they sign only a delayed entry contract, swear in, and prep for boot camp up to 365 days. The day they ship report to Meps they swear in a second time and belong to MEPCON/MCRD in route to Recruit Training, this is when they can legally charge you if you dont show or refuse to play. Should the first swearing in count, hell yes. According to the MPPM(Enlistment and accession reule book) it is a Morally and leaglly binding contract, but it goes on to say that we cannot force anyone to horor there commitment until the second swear in. This all came about after the draft ended and the volunteer force went into effect, and the fact that we would have to spend allot of time and money on people who didnt want to go. We lose 14-25 % per year to people who dont ship, of course some of it is drugs, education, medical, and moral(criminal). This adds up to quite a bit considering we enlist 35,000 to 40, 000 new recruits per year. That allot of lawyers and money and time wasted on people that dont want to be Marines or they were not sold to begin with. Other factors are fear, the media, parents, girlfriends and boyfriends and probably the worst "the Recruiter didnt tell him the truth" ie. did he join for some pipe dream or promise we cant keep. I e-mailed this young to let him know that before he ships he has got to want it, despite what he thinks of the recruiter he needs to sit down with the SGTMAJ, CO or NCOIC abd figure out what the real reason he is is backing. I know you were a recruiter and I have told many kids that they need to ship or else, but in todays gen it has to be done this way or your taxes will go down the tubes and we will force person who doesnt want to be there and eventually, maybe, will discharge after thousands were spent to send him. We need to send the ones that want to be Marines, it isnt like the 70s and 80s were when a recruit arrive he just adapted and eventually he loved it. Thsi is a different griup and believe they all know they can quit.

Semper
TKMAC58
I am one non spelling F--k, or I just cant type.

TKMAC58

Camper51
07-12-06, 12:06 PM
I blame all typing errors on "drunken fingers" that did not invite me along for a drink....

hrscowboy
07-12-06, 12:10 PM
Gearhead let me tell ya somethin you would be amazed at the fail rate there is at OCS if you think i am bullcrapin you just ask any officer that has been thru that program and ask them how many actually make it. College and book learning dont mean squat when it comes down to the actual fight and i can tell you right now and I know there are several other old timers in here that will tell you that half the time the officers arent with ya when the fight goes down. I watched many officers come home in a body bag from the nam because i put them there i worked graves for 90 days at Danang. Your enlisted men are the backbone of the Marine Corps they are the ones that get down and get dirty and bloody. As you can see even here in this site the enlisted stick together and we always will. I am sick and tired comin in this site and hearing these young kids whinning and crying i want to go to college i want to be a Officer.. I want to pick my own MOS.. Buttom line you get what the Marine Corps has to offer Nothin More Nothin Less and if you dont like whats offered then get the hell on down the road and dont bother the real men and women of the toughest military service in the United States of America.

Marine84
07-12-06, 01:08 PM
OOHRAH Cowboy!

Echo_Four_Bravo
07-12-06, 01:11 PM
Cowboy, you hit the nail on the head. Too much of 'What can the Marine Corps do for me", and not enough "What can I do for the Marine Corps?!"

tkmac58
07-12-06, 02:20 PM
I cant be drunk yet I am at work, I think its the fact that I learned how type by just watching others and doing it. Im not an officer and dont quite have my degree yet , which would make me real smart!!! Hey Camper I see that your a Colorado Marine, so am I ! I am from the sticks in the Rockies a place called Idaho Springs, 38 miles west od the bid "D". I went thru AFEES (Meps Now) at the old federal bldg on California St in Down town, I am sure you went to the same place you got me by a few years but my bro and you are aa couple apart. I actually recruited in the Springs, your lod school was one of schools(CS Palmer) hell, they have so many high schools down there now, I remember playing Football and Wrestling against the Springs schools, Palmer had a wrestler who eventually joined the Corps named Johnnie Curtis, they called him J.C. Superstar , named after Jesus Christ, He won everything he did, wasnt college mateial as far as the books, I heard he was a good Marine.
Its a small world.

TKMAC58

hrscowboy
07-12-06, 02:42 PM
Master Sgt just because some one has a degree dont make em smart.. I am a retired Chief of Police and it seemed too me that when these young men and women came into my department with their degrees yeah they could pass the written test but had a hell of problem with the Common sense part of the test along with the problems we put them in. Needless to say alot of these college kids that had those big degrees didnt even get thru the first phase of the hiring part. Just because someone has a degree yeah it looks real good on paper but it doesnt mean squat to me until i get him or her out in the field and see what him or her will do in the real life and not by book learning,, OJT is what i look at and how the person handles himself or herself. I guess maybe i am from the Old school prove to me you can do the job and not by a degree..

Marine84
07-12-06, 03:00 PM
I think I love you Cowboy!

tkmac58
07-12-06, 03:03 PM
Master Sgt just because some one has a degree dont make em smart.. I am a retired Chief of Police and it seemed too me that when these young men and women came into my department with their degrees yeah they could pass the written test but had a hell of problem with the Common sense part of the test along with the problems we put them in. Needless to say alot of these college kids that had those big degrees didnt even get thru the first phase of the hiring part. Just because someone has a degree yeah it looks real good on paper but it doesnt mean squat to me until i get him or her out in the field and see what him or her will do in the real life and not by book learning,, OJT is what i look at and how the person handles himself or herself. I guess maybe i am from the Old school prove to me you can do the job and not by a degree..
Cowboy

If you understood my f---ked up typing I was really just being a smartass, I totally agree. Believe me I competed and sold against the dumming down of american youth for years. I was told on a daily basis in the 90s on recruiting that you had to have a degree to make money, be successful etc, etc. I had to convince these kids, parents that its great for this XYZ generation to have a degree but they have to have the tools that go along with it, Self Discipline, Reliance, Confidence, Professional Development. I see that first hand now and employers are starting to look at it to, recent graduates from college feel that they deserve or are entitled to get the job before a non grad or a former miltary. The problem is they dont learn the above in school, school has gone to lower standards of learning the basics to thinking that we can teach them high technology and they will be a cut above. Colleges have lowered standards just as High Schools and parents have. So Cowboy I totally agree with your old school ideas. In your world a textbook cop is totally out of touch, I was one for quite some time, my bro has been one since 1987 and he got his degree(used the old GI Bill) after the Corps. He got hired because of the hard work and attitude he displayed. Where I live about 60 % of law enforcement is military and not college educated. The job they have has evolved to the point of being a shooting gallery, and reading out of a Criminal Justice textbook will not save your life. Thanks Cowboy for spinning me up, your era was my mentors, my father who was in 9th and 5th Mar Reg in the Korean War (Chosin) was good at that. So I guess I am a little old school too.

I still can type or spell.

TKMAC58

Camper51
07-12-06, 03:11 PM
tkmac58, I am very much a Colorado Marine, however since I "ran away" and joined the Corps in California, I actually went through AFEES in San Francisco, but the govt. paid my way there from Denver. I even had to fly up to Eureka, Ca. where I enlisted then down to SF for AFEEs, then on to Boot Camp at San Diego. Lots of travelling for a dumb a$$ 17 year old who had never really flown on a plane before that.

The old apple hasn't fallen far from the tree since I am in the Denver area now.

Back to the subject. It really is all about the Corps. Unless you have signed the final contract and gone to MEPS you are not in and cannot be discharged, however we all know the Corps has a heart (well, kinda). Also your recruiter is NOT the school and cannot give you your diploma. When you get it pay him a visit and say NOW, I am ready to go...

Old Marine
07-16-06, 10:34 AM
Gearhead:

'ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY" (JFK)

matrix
07-16-06, 11:08 AM
In the beginning of the marine corp having your diploma was not a big deal but, in the present day the marine corp is not what it use to be. These marines giving you flack don't listen to them because, that recruiter is giving you a line of bull. he's just trying to meet his quota. If a recruiter wants you bad enough they are going to do what they need to do to get you in the marine corp. All these marines on this line talking about how it is your fault well, maybe it is but, you have to give credit where credit is due. If you got your act together before you went and wanted to get your diploma then hats off to you :thumbup: because, in this day dropping out of school is becoming a thing of the future. I've been around the military my whole life and i can tell you that there are good ones and bad ones. You have ones that have compassion and ones that don't care about anything but, there selves and meeting there quota so, go to his commander or who ever is in charge and if you can't get any satisfaction from that then go higher. I don't believe there is any reason for these marines to get a nasty attitude because, i'm sure they wouldn't want their child to drop out or not get their diploma.:flag:

Semper Fi

tkmac58
07-16-06, 12:51 PM
In the beginning of the marine corp having your diploma was not a big deal but, in the present day the marine corp is not what it use to be. These marines giving you flack don't listen to them because, that recruiter is giving you a line of bull. he's just trying to meet his quota. If a recruiter wants you bad enough they are going to do what they need to do to get you in the marine corp. All these marines on this line talking about how it is your fault well, maybe it is but, you have to give credit where credit is due. If you got your act together before you went and wanted to get your diploma then hats off to you :thumbup: because, in this day dropping out of school is becoming a thing of the future. I've been around the military my whole life and i can tell you that there are good ones and bad ones. You have ones that have compassion and ones that don't care about anything but, there selves and meeting there quota so, go to his commander or who ever is in charge and if you can't get any satisfaction from that then go higher. I don't believe there is any reason for these marines to get a nasty attitude because, i'm sure they wouldn't want their child to drop out or not get their diploma.:flag:

Semper Fi
Meet his quota, he is already in the DEP, all he is now if he doesn't ship is a Pool Discharge. Quota my ass, this recruiter might be ****ed up and his NCOIC might not give a ****, but give them the benefit of doubt , they ****ing earned it. Read my 3rd or 4th post he knows what to do. I gave him advice in a private message, if he really wants this he will do what I advised or he will say **** it. Matrix, the Marines on this site are all correct , but have different views from there experiences. Its easy to say that this recruiter only cares about his quota, do you honestly think that he has allot of control over shipping and if they discharge the kid for not graduating. In case you didn't know the Marine Corps Recruiting Machine has stayed above 100 % of there recruiting goals for over 100 straight months, with the exception of 1 month last year when they had a brain fart. Even with the media, the bad press, IE. PI drowning, Hidetha incident and the casualties they are kicking ass, they work very hard. The majority of the recruiting force are from OIF 1 and 2, they are selling the Corps with combat experience, they are overcoming what the media is forcing down there throats. One Marine I know form 3/4 told me after 2 tours in Iraq and 1 tour of recruiting, he would prefer to be in Iraq. I cant tell you ****, but most of the Marines on this website feel strongly about young people today taking responsibility for there actions and holding them accountable, and most believe as I do that you join to be a Marine, you join for the brotherhood, the pride and the glory even if it sucks sometimes especially when a 19 year old is killed right in front of you. As I sit in my safe living room on a Sunday in July with the world around us turning to **** and a possible Armageddon in the future I still believe in the Corps first and sucking a kids ass to join won't cut it. I have a 19 year old daughter who graduated from HS and I pushed and shoved every day of her life for her to succeed, I instilled discipline and consequences in her, she made because she couldn't make excuses , I have heard them all.

Semper
TKMAC58

matrix
07-16-06, 01:43 PM
You sound like your a very crude person when all you can do is say words to try and offend people.How do you know my situation and what I was delt by the marine corp. I was giving him my opinion of things i've seen in the past so before you act like you are all about the marines which you should be don't get online emailing me and throwing words at me trying to offend me. Because, the marine corp is not what it use to be. While serving in the marines i my self have witnessed your only good to the corp if your able to do your job. If you get injured on the job or at war the corp turns it's back on you. You are no good to them and then you have to fight the VA for your veterans rights just so you can get your medical. To many times have I seen a young marine having a problem with a physical injury due to the job but, when the young marine needs help the marine corp ignores him and puts him in for an admin seperation. This is the way the corp deals with weak links. I was always taught to live life by four words, honor, courage,
commitment and honesty. The recruiter needs to be up front with him instead of beating around the bush. If the kids just messing around and trying to goof around then the recruiter needs to dump the kid.

tkmac58
07-16-06, 02:22 PM
You sound like your a very crude person when all you can do is say words to try and offend people.How do you know my situation and what I was delt by the marine corp. I was giving him my opinion of things i've seen in the past so before you act like you are all about the marines which you should be don't get online emailing me and throwing words at me trying to offend me. Because, the marine corp is not what it use to be. While serving in the marines i my self have witnessed your only good to the corp if your able to do your job. If you get injured on the job or at war the corp turns it's back on you. You are no good to them and then you have to fight the VA for your veterans rights just so you can get your medical. To many times have I seen a young marine having a problem with a physical injury due to the job but, when the young marine needs help the marine corp ignores him and puts him in for an admin seperation. This is the way the corp deals with weak links. I was always taught to live life by four words, honor, courage,
commitment and honesty. The recruiter needs to be up front with him instead of beating around the bush. If the kids just messing around and trying to goof around then the recruiter needs to dump the kid.
So its about you now, I thought we were talking about a kid who didn't get his diploma and has constantly put down the Recruiter. First of all you don't know who I am, as far as offending anyone it sounds like you are the one with the problem, I spent 27 years in the Corps, my father died as a Marine and as far as being crude to you, it sounds like your a weak individual for a Marine. I just retired from the Corps last year, today's Marine Corps is no different than 27 years ago, the only exception might be the quality standards and the fact that we don't just put anybody in as we did in the 70s. I can not believe that you would use this forum to say how the Corps doesn't take care of people, there is always a reason for this type of anger and it is usually based on something you did, and even if it happens, its isolated to the point that it doesn't stop us from doing our mission. You sound like you have a personal beef with the Corps regardless of your honor , courage and commitment statement. As far as being only good to the Corps if can perform, well no kidding, as far as the VA, they took care of me and my father, it was along process and there was allot of BS but I am satisfied. I am disabled but AI don't make excuses. There are people in any organization that screw up, screw around, but that doesn't give you an excuse. Lastly I want to tell you that you can call me rude and crude all you like and I really don't care. My original point with your statement was that my bros always get the first say over a non marine, and it sounds like your very disgruntled about the Corps, damn shame.

SEMPER
TKMAC58

GearheadJLM
07-16-06, 04:05 PM
Alright, all advice is highly appreciated, and I honor and respect everyone for giving me there advice, I don't want people to go back and forth and argue. Look, I know how hard those recruiters work, I helped them out, and I worked with one who did it honorably. My recruiter has done things as I told you TKMAC, which no matter how hard they work, it doesn't give an excuse for his actions. As far as me, look, I don't mean to sound like a whinny ass ***** and say I want this I want that. I understand that it's what I can do for them, not what they can do for me. I have set some goals through out my life, and I am achieving those goals. My priority for the last year has been to get my diploma so I can become a Marine. I earned nine high school credits in one school year, my last test was taken, and I am waiting for the scores so that my high school will issue my diploma. I am not going to waste all that hard work and time to leave with out it, exspecially after my recruiter has straight up lied to me and my family. I exspect him to serve with honor, which is what the Marines promote, one of the reasons why I joined. I also joined because the Marines are supposed to be the tip of the spear, and with me just blowing off and saying **** the diploma, then thats just not a smart decision and Marines should be making smart decisions. So My plan simply is, get this diploma, and ship out ASAP, TKMAC, I'll probably do what we discussed in our PM's. I will get the damn diploma, get acceptted into college and talk to a new recruiter. I am not trying to be a pain in the ass, I have a huge amount of respect for you and I am honored to have the chance to become a Marine. I could simply just ship out and be at that, or I could strive to do my best, and try my best at becoming an officer, and get the most out of it. Thank you for the time, sorry for the trouble. Hopefully, I will be at PI as soon and can live up to my commitment to you guys.

Joe

tkmac58
07-16-06, 04:20 PM
Alright, all advice is highly appreciated, and I honor and respect everyone for giving me there advice, I don't want people to go back and forth and argue. Look, I know how hard those recruiters work, I helped them out, and I worked with one who did it honorably. My recruiter has done things as I told you TKMAC, which no matter how hard they work, it doesn't give an excuse for his actions. As far as me, look, I don't mean to sound like a whinny ass ***** and say I want this I want that. I understand that it's what I can do for them, not what they can do for me. I have set some goals through out my life, and I am achieving those goals. My priority for the last year has been to get my diploma so I can become a Marine. I earned nine high school credits in one school year, my last test was taken, and I am waiting for the scores so that my high school will issue my diploma. I am not going to waste all that hard work and time to leave with out it, exspecially after my recruiter has straight up lied to me and my family. I exspect him to serve with honor, which is what the Marines promote, one of the reasons why I joined. I also joined because the Marines are supposed to be the tip of the spear, and with me just blowing off and saying **** the diploma, then thats just not a smart decision and Marines should be making smart decisions. So My plan simply is, get this diploma, and ship out ASAP, TKMAC, I'll probably do what we discussed in our PM's. I will get the damn diploma, get acceptted into college and talk to a new recruiter. I am not trying to be a pain in the ass, I have a huge amount of respect for you and I am honored to have the chance to become a Marine. I could simply just ship out and be at that, or I could strive to do my best, and try my best at becoming an officer, and get the most out of it. Thank you for the time, sorry for the trouble. Hopefully, I will be at PI as soon and can live up to my commitment to you guys.

Joe
Hope fully you will still be a marine. Send me a picture in your blues when you grad, good luck. Drop me a line if you need anything else.

Semper
TKMAC58

GearheadJLM
07-16-06, 04:23 PM
Yes, I will be a Marine, I have committed to myself in my heart that I will be a Marine, and nothing else... I will indeed keep you informed and send you a picture of me in my blues when I get them! Thank you, Sir!

GearheadJLM
07-16-06, 04:24 PM
O btw, I found this thread motivating and thank everyone for the post.

Old Marine
07-17-06, 10:25 AM
TkMAC 58:

Most of the Marines that I have known were and are rude and crude. I guess it's a built in trait. We can't all become lipstick Lieutenants and almost an Officer and Gentleman.

Marine84
07-17-06, 11:57 AM
I don't call it rude and crude - I call it being relistic enough to not candy coat something. That's what's wrong with kids these days - everybody wants to sugar coat everything for them so they won't be "traumatized" later in life.

Case in point - there is a Mom in Gwinnett Co here that is trying her best to get Harry freakin Potter taken off the shelves in the schools because it promotes witchcraft. Now if THAT ain't the biggest crock of $hit you ever heard - I don't know what is. The way I see it is, if she don't want her kid reading it - WATCH HIM/HER TO MAKE SURE HIM/HER DOESN'T READ IT! Everybody expects SOMEBODY else to watch their kids these days instead of taking the responsibility of doing it themselves.

If Gearhead had been MY child - I would have whooped his a$$ a few times and he would have NEVER dropped out of school in the first place and he wouldn't be going through this mess now. I know some Moms say "well, I can't do anything - he's bigger than me" - HORSE $HIT! Who's the parent?

hrscowboy
07-17-06, 12:09 PM
dang i knew i loved you Marine84 your my kinda woman, yep we are the parents and these kids need to learn that we are the boss and if they dont like it there gonna get throttled thats the buttom line.. and if i he or she is bigger than me i am gonna pick up something and whittle them down a notch or two..

GearheadJLM
07-17-06, 02:10 PM
Hey wait a minute, I never drop out of school. And yes I did get the **** beat out of me several times. Has my life been candy coated? **** no, I have seen hell and back, I worked full time durning highschool, sure it was dumb because I got behind, but it was what I had to do. I don't ever expect things to be candy coated, **** nothing was giving to me, except opportunity, and I took advantage of it.

Marine84
07-17-06, 11:58 PM
oooooooooooooooooohhhhhhh and he has a little SPUNK in him too!

Hopefully though, son you know where you screwed up now and you can make the best of the rest of your life. We were all young at one point and did plenty of stupid $hit - you ain't the first. However I knew whether I was getting my diploma or not at the end of the school year. If you have to wait another year to make sure YOU get yours - fine. If you already KNOW that you have it and you're just waiting on the piece of paper - keep your shipdate and get on with your life - don't make excuses as to why you need to stay - there will ALWAYS be reasons to stay. You have to want it bad enough to grab at it!

GearheadJLM
07-18-06, 12:50 AM
oooooooooooooooooohhhhhhh and he has a little SPUNK in him too!

Hopefully though, son you know where you screwed up now and you can make the best of the rest of your life. We were all young at one point and did plenty of stupid $hit - you ain't the first. However I knew whether I was getting my diploma or not at the end of the school year. If you have to wait another year to make sure YOU get yours - fine. If you already KNOW that you have it and you're just waiting on the piece of paper - keep your shipdate and get on with your life - don't make excuses as to why you need to stay - there will ALWAYS be reasons to stay. You have to want it bad enough to grab at it!

Thank you, I have learned from my poor decisions in my life, I will not need to wait another year, I should (hopefully) have my test results in this week. Thank you.

Joe