Upside down flag

[outlaw3179]

So theres this Jackass in Iowa who is protesting and this is how he goes about doing it........... <br />
<br />
Corydon Ia, July 6, 2006- An Iowa farmers protest of the governments treatment of soldiers...

[Bige1371]

Any scout snipers live in Corydon Iowa???:mad:

[airframesguru]

corn hole'm

can I say that here?

[sgt tony]

fly him under it up side down then there would be 2 wrongs to be right.
He should be sent over their i think i have 5 for the ticket.

[jekopp3]

I've got to say this really enrages me... I'm from Iowa, and its too bad that I've got jackasses like this guy back home representing my home. I'd love to go home and slap some friggin discipline into his body....

[CAS3]

So, if the flag is flying upside down, it means he is in trouble, right?
I think we Marines should show up and get him "out" of trouble.

[CAS3]

Kilroy (whoever you are)
1. Please update your profile. I do not know if you are a Marine or not.

2. Do you not know what the problem with this man is? He is hanging the USA flag upside down. Hello...that action alone is protest to this country, not to veterans or active servicemebers or the war in Iraq.

3. Read 38 Code of Federal Regulation part 3. This is where the Department of Veteran Affairs is allowed to treat active servicemembers. Why not? It is a federal health facility just as a naval hospital is. US tax dollars keep both facilities open.

Check your facts before posting your babble here.

Thank You,
Colleen

[thedrifter]

Full moon is out!;)

Ellie

[Camper51]

Owwwwooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooo

[CAS3]

Mr. Benson,
Thank You for updating your profile.

I believe in the Bill of Rights.

I also believe in the US Constitution.
As the post states, there is policy in the Iowa State Government against desecrating the flag.

This man is committing a criminal act.

I do not support his ideas and I surely do not support the way he is going about his protest.
We can agree to disagree.
END OF STORY.

As for the VA, I have been in many and I am currently in the one in Newington every other day for treatment for service connected disabilities.
I have seen the worst (Washington DC) and I know the VA budget issues. My office was located across from VA Central Office on Vermont Ave in DC. I have spoken out for veterans and veterans benefits.
That much we agree on.

[Kilroy238]

No need to be so formal..:)

I hope you get the care you deserve and glad you voice your concerns.

As for Iowa. The law is there yes but has already been rules as unconstitutional in 73. The Iowa Supreme Court ruled in State v. Kool that displaying an American flag upside down was protected speech and could not be prosecuted.

It is just used for the harassment of people. He was arrested for because they didn't like it. As for why the law is still on the books who knows. Lots of stupid laws still on the books. My fav from back home is "You can't shoot any game other than whales from a moving automobile."

So yes we can just agree to disagree. Maybe your right. I don't know. Seems to me the days of asking nicely for things and getting a response is long gone sadly.



Mr. Benson,
Thank You for updating your profile.

I believe in the Bill of Rights.

I also believe in the US Constitution.
As the post states, there is policy in the Iowa State Government against desecrating the flag.

This man is committing a criminal act.

I do not support his ideas and I surely do not support the way he is going about his protest.
We can agree to disagree.
END OF STORY.

As for the VA, I have been in many and I am currently in the one in Newington every other day for treatment for service connected disabilities.
I have seen the worst (Washington DC) and I know the VA budget issues. My office was located across from VA Central Office on Vermont Ave in DC. I have spoken out for veterans and veterans benefits.
That much we agree on.

[helen25]

freedom of speach or not its wrong!!!! to many ppl died for this ass to do this ya all are right string him up

[Osotogary]

Perhaps this gentleman in Iowa could have made his own flag using a thumbs down design with a simple slogan underneath like, "I don't like what's going on." scribed on it and hoisted it up for all to see beneath the properly hung American Flag.
Same protest....different approach.
Turning the American flag upside down or desecrating it is not going to gather any sympathy votes even from people who might agree with him, fully or partially.

[Lufthunde]

Flying the U.S. Flag upside-down is a visual signal of distress. What is this clown going to do if he finds himself in distress....fly it right-side up???

[helen25]

you r right osotogray i have no problan ppl not liking whats going on i dont but show support for men and woman dont be disrespectfull to them and our country

[Osotogary]

Maybe he is trying to get people to get off their asses and ask a question.

Of coarse he is, you know it and so do I. The question is, how effective is his method? For him...it works. For others....maybe not.
I don't know what happened before this episode with the flag; wether he had brought his feelings to the forefront via news media, corrrespondence etc. and wasn't satisfied with the results of his efforts to make his feelings known..I don't know. Either way, what is done is done and it has worked. He certainly did get the message out although I do belief he may have disenfranchised alot of folks that may have sympathized with him not because of his ideas but his methods.

[Bige1371]

It's good that someone wants to protest for our people not getting the medical help they need. The way this person went about it is not. Flying the flag upside down is a good way to **** a lot of people off. The reaction as seen here would be to not care why he is doing it. If you want to protest, protest leave our nations colors out of it. Aim high Kilroy cause I'm aiming center mass. Bige1371

[outlaw3179]

Aim high Kilroy cause I'm aiming center mass. Bige1371

LOL.... OUT******STANDING MARINE!


It must be an Air Force thing. Cuz I dont really know too many Marines who see this an honorable way to protest , by disrespecting the colors wich so many have died for. I guess I must just be some dumb little ole' grunt who dont know nuthin. But i guess you look at things a little bit differently when that flag means so much to you. And to have it disrespected like that just really bothers the hell out of me. But hey go burn it , go **** on it go do whatever you want , hey its all about freedom of speech and you have a right to do that.

[Mike McIntyre]

If I fly the flag upside down out of protest, while on the water, the Coasties are going to take me down!!! You can’t yell “Fire” in a movie theater. Why not? I thought there is the “Freedom of Speech”? Protest by voting the bums out, by supporting the candidate of your choice, start a blog, write letters, or call the radio station (AM).
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Here is a novel thought. Thank the next service man or woman you see for serving. Cut the lawn of your neighbor because he/she has been called up. Send a letter or care package. GO and volunteer at the VA.
<o:p></o:p>
Why is “Freedom of Speech” only an issue when someone is degrading, desecrating, being immoral (because morality is now relative) in this country. What happened to my rights not to be subjected to such material? I have to accept: porn, vulgarity, bigotry, anti-Christian speech, anti-Semitic speech, flag burning, the Star Spangled Banner in Spanish, spitting on the flag, and protesting at funerals of service men & women.
<o:p></o:p>
But if you show a cartoon of Mohamed, preach that homosexuality is wrong (even in a church), “Quote” hatred from a Quran (See Horselady), drive an SUV, God forbid hunt, or stand-up for the Military you’re a polluting, bigoted, narrow minded, meat eating, intolerant baby killer who is responsible for everything from poor self-esteem to global warning.
<o:p></o:p>
IMO

[ggyoung]

:iwo: :flag: Senitor Hatch of Utah has for the past 10 years or so interduced a bill that would make it a federal offence to desecrat our flag. Each time it was voted on it has been voted down by a good amount of vots. Now it seems to me that we should vote out the bums who vote agenest it, The problem is that people don't care what there leaders say or do. Marines get involved and e-mail, mail your thoughts to these bums. Work on voting them OUT. This is the only way we can the laws pased that we want.

[Osotogary]

Famous line said by actor Peter Finch from I believe the movie Network, "I'm mad as he!! and I can't take it any more."

From what I gather his protest has absolutely nothing to do with the flag...absolutely nothing. The flag didn't screw him out of 200K, right? Nor was the flag responsible for the unfortunate death of a fellow Iowan and veteran. The flag, in both these cases was being used as a vehicle for getting the message out.
With the population jaded or not, I don't think it was appropriate to use an American Flag in such a manner...in either case. The flag did not cause the problem. Why mess around with it?

So freedom of speech is ok as long as you only use it in a way you deem proper?

Absolutely! Each and every one of us has a limit as to what we want to hear/read, how we want to hear/read it and when we want to hear/read it before it reaches the bullsheet level and we turn it off. Nothing special about that...is there?

I, personally, would have chosen another vehicle to get my message out.

[OLE SARG]

I have kicked the **** out of dumbasses who have desecrated the flag in my presense - getting too old for that now so I carry a ball bat.
The media nowadays is a ****ing joke. They lean so far to the left it is a wonder they can walk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe in freedom of speech AND I'm sick of the pukes and slugs that make up the aclu!!!!!!!!!!!
I also expect the normal citizens to have respect and decency and if they don't, I let them know the error of their way!!

SEMPER FI,

[OLE SARG]

kilroy238,
You need to read my post CAREFULLY!!!! What is "police state" about what I stated in my post. It's simple - desecrate the flag in my presence you get your ass kicked!! The media, and I think you downgraded the media also, is a bunch of left leaning *******s. Respect and decency are traits to be exercised and if they are not, you let people know the error of their way.
Good code to live by or is it different in China HA HA ????
SEMPER FI,

[Osotogary]

"..when you start telling someone what they can't do becasue you and others don't like it. You're doing worse than hanging the flag upside down."

Relevant or not...
Didn't the American Colonies basically tell Britain they couldn't do something because others didn't like it? I do believe a flag was created because of it.

[FistFu68]

:usmc: YEA,OLD SARGE SAID IT RIGHT! THEY BEING COWARD'S,EXERCISING THE RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH,I EXERCISE THE RIGHT TO BUST 'EM UP WITH A PIECE OF LUMBER!WHICH DO YOU PREFER SARGE,I'M STILL PARTIAL TO A '34 LOUISVILLE SLUGGER,DOESN'T MAKE ANY NOISE LIKE THE ALUMINUM ONE'S!'NUFF SAID :usmc: LONG LIVE FORCE :thumbup:

[OLE SARG]

KILROY238,
If it weren't for the left leaning *******s, the bleeding hearts, and just plain respect for people and their rights, I wouldn't have to have the "bat mentaility" you so eloquently quote. You want to hear bad-mouthing, just listen to the dumbasses here in the U. S. who don't realize how good they have it. My solutions - if you don't like it in the U. S., get the **** out and find somewhere else to live!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You failed to read my post in the manner it was intended - I DID NOT say I use the bat indiscriminately - I respect the rights of people and can do as they like and do what they have a right to do - just don't force yourself or YOUR BELIEFS ON ME!!!!!!
Don't use the "you should come here" crap on me - I've probably been in more foreign countries than you have. And I have seen the fear of oppressed people - we in the U. S. ARE FAR, FAR, FROM BEING OPPRESSED!!!!!!!!!!!
I definitely agree with your last paragraph - see we agree on something!!!
SEMPER FI,
SEMPER FI,

[Mike McIntyre]

SOOOOO Right Ole Sarge!
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Where is burning the flag or hanging it upside down speech? Why is it that people can lie (NY Times) or publish Security Secrets (NY Times) in the name of “Freedom of the Press”. For one thing, “It ain’t free”! When are people going to notice who is defending and dieing for those freedoms?
<o:p></o:p>
The flag ain’t speech and the flag ain’t free!

[Osotogary]

And what has any of this gentlemanly conversation done for mankind or Iowa?
Probably nothing but that is okay because we at least had the opportunity and the means of expressing ourselves WITHOUT having to hang this Nation's flag upside down.
Adios.

[FistFu68]

:usmc: SAVE THE HISTORY CLASS FOR THE CHINA MAN TEACH! WE ARE MARINES, WE ARE HISTORY! UNCOMMON VALOR~WAS A COMMON VIRTUE! :usmc: LAND OF THE FREE~BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE! DO NOT SPEAK OF VIET-NAM WITH THIS WE~CHIT,UNLESS YOU WERE IN COUNTRY!'NUFF SAID.:evilgrin:

[CAS3]

Kilroy,
You will not disrespect any Marine here.

Come back when you can add something to the conversation please.

THIS IS A MARINE SITE FOR MARINES AND BY MARINES.
You are a guest and should act as such.

Enough said.

[ggyoung]

Lets stop this before it gets ulgy and somebody gets there feelings hurt.I have seen enough of getting hurt to last me for ever. Think about it people, lets just forget this thing.

[OLE SARG]

I sure did not think kilroy238 was disrespecting anyone with his comments. I respect his opinion as he respected mine.

SEMPER FI,

[Osotogary]

Alright, who's ordering Chinese?

[fontman]

Yo, Flyboy...

Don't go away mad; just go away...

:evilgrin:

[outlaw3179]

Thank God Im a Marine.

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: YOU GOT THE MESSAGE~YOU JUST DIDN'T LIKE WHAT YOU HEARD! I :D DON'T NEED TO ANSWER~LIKE A FULL PAGE ARTICLE FROM THE NEW YORK TIME'S! I DON'T HAVE TO WARN YOU ABOUT THE (WE CHIT,VIETNAM) NOW DO I? THEN YOU ARE IN MY CLASS~ROOM! HISTORY TEACH!:D ATTIDUDE CHECK!!!!!!! LONG LIVE FORCE

[Mike McIntyre]

Kilroy238:
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
You talk that Ole Sarge is chipping away at our “Wall of Freedom”. IMO, Sarge and the other service men & women (Even the Zoomie/Fly Boy) are the masons that mend the wall and keep her strong. The NY Times and people that support the drive bye media are trying to make bricks without straw.
<o:p></o:p>
Laws are written to protect and to improve our lives. Hanging the US Flag upside down breaks that law. No one was in distress. Our military have fought and are still fighting to protect those bricks that make up that wall of freedom.
<o:p></o:p>
You talk History all day long but you neglect Civics. That seems to be a lost subject today.
<o:p></o:p>
Keep writing graffiti on “MY WALL” and I just may turn the other way when the Ole Sarge gets his bat.

[SemperFin]

Mike,

You make an excellent point about neglecting Civics. I feel (and I'm sure that a lot of others will agree) that this is one thing that pi$$es us all off. We have served, fought, got shot/shredded/maimed or other wise discombobulated, suffered, strained, bled, cried and almost died for a country where people do not appreciate the structure and symbols we defend. For most of us, to see some jacka$$ burning a flag, pi$$ing on a flag or flying it upside down, it is an affront to what we as Marines hold dear. Many people today do not or can not understand how dear we (as Marines, etc.) hold these things. Frankly, it irritates the hell out of me when I see some punk kid disrespecting a symbol of the country I love. WTF? How did this happen? I don't have all of the answers but I do know that the way to change it is to start at home. It is up to us as Americans to teach our young the meaning of such things and ensure they know the price that was paid for them by the generations before us. Start at the beginning and, as kilroy said, change it from within. These changes happened over time and it will take time and effort to change them back.

With that being said, Sarge and FistFU, the next time you get out the bat, please explain to the miscreant exactly why you are "educating" them;) .

Semper Fi my brothers and Sisters

[OLE SARG]

Sean,
Your post reminded me of an incident that occurred one morning when I had just went to work and drove by a MacDonalds and saw a kid at the flagpole. He was holding our flag with half of it ON THE GROUND. I about wrecked my patrolcar getting turned around and getting back to that kid. I scared the **** out of him when I skidded up and jumped out of the patrolcar. I grabbed the flag and told him to go get his manager NOW. When the manager and the kid returned, I showed them how to hold the flag and prepare it for raising on the flagpole. I explained to both of them why the flag meant so much to me and I would not stand by and see it disrespected. When I left, the manager and the kid both thanked me for educating them on this procedure.
I guess I'm funny this way but I feel it is my responsiblity to correct people when they disrespect OUR FLAG!! If they don't like it then further, harsher, methods can be deployed!!

SEMPER FI,

[recon532002]

I guess here are the rule for Using the flag remember this is one web site but I have looked at a few and found this one from the legion to explain. http://www.legion.org/pdf/flagcode.pdf

Recon

[Mike McIntyre]

Ole Sarge & Semper Fin:
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
I’d like to say, “Oh Rah” and “Semper Fi” but I have not EARNED that right. I do not claim rights that I have not earned. My father had and I hope that my son will soon. That seems to be the most misquoted phrase in the “Modern” American language, “I have my rights!”
<o:p></o:p>
People need to read what rights the Constitution and the Bill of Rights actually promise them. There are no rights that guarantee: happiness, wealth, that government will meet my every want, that my feelings won’t get hurt, that I am equal to everyone else even though the next guy EARNED it and I did not (i.e. saying Semper Fi).
<o:p></o:p>
We are guaranteed the right to: protect ourselves, worship how we want, take the OPPORTUNITIES to better ourselves, say what we want without slandering others, and generally to be left alone. Note two things: Opportunity & Ourselves. We do not have the right to BREAK LAWS, infringe on others, or take what we have not earned.

[OTN Chief]

A Vietnam Vet Marine whom I consider a great and wise friend, once said that "the military is a dictatorship."
The training that a man will see, that turns him into a Marine, is far more
than the training that a Marine will see, that can turn him into a man.


Don't fight the freedoms you fought for. If you do, you will never be
able to enjoy the freedoms you have. You just as well slap the Marines who'd gone before you. You'd just as well curse yourself.

I don't know, but I think maybe it could be a good thing to try and understand Mr Klyn's, Ms. Jones, and Mr. Roe's perspective.

http://progressive.org/mag_mc071906
http://progressive.org/mag_wx071806
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0713-26.htm


Same friend of mine also said, it is good to know who your enemies are.


Makes sense to me.


Your free to do whatever you want, BUT... your enslaved to the consequential accountability of whatever you do.

[Omega Dusk]

Hello everyone,
I am new to this forum, but not to the plight of those who have been treated unjustly. I would only like to point something out that may make more sense to you.
This Dale Klyn of Iowa is an American from the heartland of this, the greatest country in the world. He is a taxpayer, a family man, and in many ways represents the common man that makes up the backbone of our country. Not necessarily a patriot in the sense that he has fought and bled for the flag- but certainly as a man who represents what we would want the vast majority of people who don't have that honor, to be. He encountered some situations that did not sit well with him and, to communicate this, raised Old Glory upside down.
We, as service people, recognize this as a sign of distress. As a clear indication that something is not right.
When one of the citizens of our nation that we have given an oath to "protect against enemies foreign and domestic" the first thought on our mind should be that we need to help that citizen. I know that I (and probably many of you) get all tight in the chest when I see our flag waving proudly accompanied by one of our patriotic songs (The National Anthem, Taps etc.). It would not be unusual to see some tears welling in my eyes at the sight and I'm not at all ashamed of that. People who desecrate or mistreat the flag in my presence incites the urge to beat them stupid- but not reacting that way is what sets us apart from those oppressors we have all fought to remove.
We cannot afford to react so harshly everytime we feel we, or our country has been disrespected. That charging blindly mentality has got way to many people killed on the battle field and the affect is similar in this regard. Any of you who have lead combat forces know of the importance of thinking things through. Before you pull the trigger you want to first judge your target of his/her alliance- friend or foe. No one wants to be the one to turn lethal force on one of our own.
Thank you.

[CAS3]

Attention on deck...
If you are going to post to this forum after reading some liberal rag, then please read all of the posts, learn about the Marines on this site, and fill out your profile.

[Phantom Blooper]

He encountered some situations that did not sit well with him and, to communicate this, raised Old Glory upside down.


I along with other veterans run in to situations with our government on a daily basis that does not sit well. This country is in trouble but it is not sinking fast or in high enough distress to send out a SOS or by turning the national ensign into a distress symbol for the media mongers to see. Hell he could have turned an Iowa cornfield into a maze and received more favorable results.



and in many ways represents the common man that makes up the backbone of our country


The men and women through the ages that have fought bled and died for "old Glory" will beg to differ. It looks like in this Marine and veterans eyes that this man developed one of the many brain attacking diseases that have been going around the past four plus years. One of the major symptoms is a noticeable yellow stripe going up ones back bone.



We cannot afford to react so harshly every time we feel we, or our country has been disrespected.


We as Marines do not refer to ourselves as service people. We refer to ourselves with our God given title,"Marine." And as such we were and are trained to react harshly against any enemy foreign or domestic. This is something that we as Marines take great pride in.

Regardless of the photo controversy on the raising of our national ensign on Iwo Jima it was raised by Marines and a near Marine a navy corpsman. It was raised with its stars on a field of blue and red and white stripes not yellow flying upright and high. And this has been a national symbol and monument made for the whole world to see. These colors don't run and they don't fade!



Any of you who have lead combat forces know of the importance of thinking things through.


I have! And I thought these words through also that I type. And I would have NO trouble pulling the trigger at firing squad or dropping the door on the gallows against a traitor or against one of this countries citizens or one deemed by this country to be a terrorist foe.. Because the oath and allegiance I took is to defend this country against ALL enemies foreign and domestic. One is not a friend or ally that does this. They are most definitely defined as a foe.

This is also another case of a disgruntled veteran wanting to get his name in the paper and a spot on the news. If he is this hell bent on being a voice for veterans there are ways to gain attention other than disgracing this country and all active duty men and women,all veterans and the families of the heroes that have fallen defending him, you,I, this great country and the symbol of our very freedoms.

Americans can be proud to live in a country where the rights of others are treasured and protected by rules codified as law. Where good men and women stood through the ages and have been ready to fight and die to protect those laws and the people who live under them.

:evilgrin:

[rb1651]

Phantom,

Nothin' to add to what you said, other than a big frigging OOOORRRRAAAHHHH!

[Omega Dusk]

Phantom,
I would like to point out that the title of Marine is not a God-given one and I would be extremely appreciative if you would refrain from uttering such falsehoods ever again.
So you are saying that this man (Dale Klyn) is a traitor because he hung our flag upside down. Worse yet, that he may be a terrorist.
It could be accurately said that what he did was the act of a traitor. However in doing so you must apply this same standard to everyone who calls themselves Americans. So you would assert that anyone who does not pay your level of respect to the symbols that represent our country are also traitors? You are saying that, in order to alter their behavior, you would use intimidation and violence, correct?
Be advised, Marine, as to the definition of Terrorism:
"The use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."
I do have to agree with you, that the people of our nation are scared. They are scared of a lot of things: terrorism, national debt, extremists, war, poverty, racism... Our world is a terrifying place- and only more so to those of us who have had the privilege of being able to go out and see it first hand. We (Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen...) are here to reduce or expel that fear. To let them know that there is someone willing to defend them against those things that they fear. If we also become one of the objects of their fear, than they may begin to lose hope altogether. If you think we are in trouble now, wait until you see an America where no one cares about anything- where everyone has let go of all hope.
The concept of Might Makes Right certainly is one that works for training Marines or Soldiers, but not for dealing with a civilian populace. When you start pushing civilians around, things start to look like Cuba, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, most of Africa... these are all places we do not want to be like! That was the whole point to begin with right? To provide a place for people to be able to worship, believe, act, speak, and demonstrate as they wish- without the threat of violence upon them or a need to fear.
You do not agree with his demonstration and that is absolutely fine. It is your right to agree or disagree with whoever you like. But when you seek to bully one of the people of my country who is not hurting anyone, just because of his/her beliefs you betray the foundation that built this land.
I want you- all of you- to ask yourselves why you chose to become a defender of that beautiful clothe we are speaking about. Was it to defend the people that make up this great nation or to better smite those who do not see things as you do? I enlisted to protect the people and places I hold dear; I did not join a gang who enforce respect of their colors through violence.

[Phantom Blooper]

I would like to point out that the title of Marine is not a God-given one and I would be extremely appreciative if you would refrain from uttering such falsehoods ever again.


First off lets get this straight...Your coming into a Marine site as a guest telling me that I cannot say that my title Marine is not a God given right.Backup and regroup and then do a 360 degree turn. As a Marine Corps Staff Non Commissioned Officer I follow a strict creed and one of those principles and traits is integrity. And in doing such the definition of Integrity in a Marines eyes is; Uprightness of character and soundness of moral principles; includes the principles of truthfulness and honesty.I do not and have not uttered falsehoods. When I marched off the grinder at Parris Island,SC I marched off with the God given title MARINE. This I don't expect you to understand.And stand down and don't admonish me to never do this again!

When I raised my right hand 33 years ago I swore allegiance to God,country and the Marine Corps. I did not do this PC of affirming to do such.


So you are saying that this man (Dale Klyn) is a traitor because he hung our flag upside down. Worse yet, that he may be a terrorist.

Where in my reply and post did I state that this man is a traitor? I stated in words.. not these.. that I would have NO trouble blasting a cap or stringing up a foe deemed a traitor by the US or its people. Don't add words to my post! I fully agree he and others have a right to protest. However as stated by another Marine on this thread he is braking the code of ethics for flying our national ensign. All of us can't be wrong!



So you would assert that anyone who does not pay your level of respect to the symbols that represent our country are also traitors?


When I took my oath I swore allegiance to this flag as it being a symbol for 230 years for this country.Everytime I see a US flag in a parade,ceremony,funeral, veterans functions or any where this symbol as you say is flown I salute or place my hand on my breast and swear allegiance over again.



Be advised, Marine, as to the definition of Terrorism:
"The use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."



One thing in your post that you got right you addressed me by my God given title Marine!And I have 270 plus reasons to know the first hand correct definition of a terrorist. I along with many other Marines,friends and families live with this on a daily basis.



The concept of Might Makes Right certainly is one that works for training Marines or Soldiers, but not for dealing with a civilian populace. When you start pushing civilians around, things start to look like Cuba, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, most of Africa... these are all places we do not want to be like! That was the whole point to begin with right?



No the whole point is disrespecting the national ensign and flying it upside down when he is not on a naval vessel or in distress.Against the law! Except in the rewritten law books of the ACLU.



But when you seek to bully one of the people of my country who is not hurting anyone, just because of his/her beliefs you betray the foundation that built this land.



This land that you speak of was built on a foundation of blood,sweat and tears from the earliest national warriors that were deemed to fight tyrants. They did so in their battles with a flag with 13 stars for our original colonies. Other flags on the fields of battle were flown but none that are the model of the US flag of today. The people of this land were given a document by our forefathers to have life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Freedoms of religions,speech ect.

This upside down flag fl yer can exercise his rights of his pursuit of happiness and his freedoms of speech to do as he pleases within the law. And I and the majority of this great nation can exercise ours and not concur with it!




I want you- all of you- to ask yourselves why you chose to become a defender of that beautiful clothe we are speaking about. Was it to defend the people that make up this great nation or to better smite those who do not see things as you do? I enlisted to protect the people and places I hold dear; I did not join a gang who enforce respect of their colors through violence.


You answered your own question.



I did not join a gang who enforce respect of their colors through violence.


All branches of the military are an organized gang. Instead of bandanna's and different articles of closing to depict one gang from another we all are to be united and fly under one set of colors the American flag,national ensign,Old Glory the name are numerous and many.From reading this thread and replying I would venture to say that some tribes of these organized gangs fly the colors higher than others! We are divided into factions of sorts..Marines,Navy,Army,Air Force,Coast Guard and those that want too and wished they could have taken that God given right and earned the illustrious title of Marine.



:evilgrin:

[CAS3]

David,

There is one thing no one will ever understand...

Unless you become a Marine, you will never know what it is like to be a Marine. We are cocky, proud, honest, ethical, moral and trained killers. There is somehting in our blood that makes us different from any other service member.

We were instilled with a code. We will fight to the death for that code.

The code:

GOD COUNTRY CORPS

We, as Marines, have a deep respect and pride in the above mentioned and what they represent and how they are represented. Again, if there were someone (friend or foe) acting criminally against any of the above. They shall be dealt with.

If it were not for God, we would not be Marines. He stands with each and every one of us and he did indeed give us the right to be called Marine.

[Omega Dusk]

I apologize if I offended your honor, but I stand my ground firmly that to say that the title of Marine is God-given is nothing less than blasphemy; as the lord our God never spoke unto you saying that you shall now be called a Marine. If that did indeed happen, forgive me. In any event, I meant no disrespect.
Thank you.

[Phantom Blooper]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>blas·phe·my [ blásfəmee (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/Pronounce.aspx?search=blasphemy) ] (plural blas·phe·mies)</TD></TR><TR><TD class=ResultBody>

noun </TD></TR><TR height=20><TD height=20></TD></TR><TR><TD class=ResultBodyBlack>Definition:</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>1. disrespect for religion: disrespect for God or sacred things

</TD></TR><TR><TD>2. something showing disrespect for religion: something done or said that shows disrespect for God or sacred things

Show me where I disrespected God....?? Show me where I disrespected religion...??

Your entitled to your opine as I am mine. I never stated that Marines were better than God or Gods equal. I stated our God given title is Marine.

Rewrite the Funkandwagnel and the English dictionaries because as a Christian,religious or a spiritual person it is always stated about God-given rights.

I can compare apples and oranges with you to the end of time and if you did not march off a parade deck and earn the title of Marine you will never understand.Read all the stanzas of the Marine Hymn.

"Here's health to you and to our Corps, which we are proud to serve.
In many a strife we've fought for life and never lost our nerve.
If the Army and the Navy ever look on heaven's scenes,
They will find the streets are guarded by United States Marines."


Now if you want to continue on the subject at hand about the disrespect of our national ensign I am willing to further discuss and read you views. Other than that enough is said about my and all Marines God given title.:evilgrin:


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[wsimkins]

Wow, now I really need some popcorn!

Well said Phantom. It's a shame I have to go to church tonight, I could sit here and listen to this all day. While I'm in God's house maybe I should ask him to speak to me in prayer and bestow the title once more. After all I speak to God every night when I go to bed and thank him for all the blessings I have received during the day. I still hold the God given title, "United States Marine" and if that sends me to hell for blasphemy maybe I pray in vain.

"When I get to heaven Saint Peter I will tell; Another Marine reporting sir, I've served my time in hell."

And, since when do we get outsiders coming in here and disrespecting our title? They can take their arses to an Army or Air Force discussion board and stay there! I am glad they have served their country with pride, but they aren't part of our "Brotherhood".

[FistFu68]

:usmc: ARMY BRAT BY BIRTH, MARINE BY CHOICE!HEY ARMY BEING THAT I AM ONE SON OF MANY!THAT HAD LET'S SAY FORTUNE~OR AT TIME'S THE INFORTUNATE SON OF A CAREER ARMY MAN-HIS UNIT MOTTO WAS OF THE...

[FistFu68]

:usmc: FROM WHAT I HAVE READ FROM YOU, AND FELT IN MY HEART! YOU'R PAPA~DID AN OUTSTANDING JOB OF INSTILLING WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG! HE'S MUST BE A VERY PROUD MAN! YOU'VE GOT YOU'R HEAD& AZZ WIRED TOGETHER SON! I THINK YOU SAID YOU'R FATHER HAS PASSED AWAY? IF SO IT WILL BE A GRAND REUIOUN SOMEDAY!!!TO THE BRAVE GOOD~FORTUNE! :usmc: LONG LIVE FORCE :thumbup: GOD~SPEED~AKA.~FISTFU~OORAH~'NUFF SAID.

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: OTH CHIEF~IF YOU AND YOU'R FRIEND HAVE SUCH STRONG CONVICTION'S? ARE TRUE TOO THE BONE,PROVE IT TO ME? I DID BY LAYING MY LIFE ON THE LINE~ONCE UPON A TIME! I WAS A MAN BEFORE THE CORP'S~THE USMC~JUST FINELY HONED IT! SO YOU AND YOU'R BUDDY 'NAM VET~FEEL FREE GET OLD GLORY,WRAP BOTH OF AZZ'EZ IN IT-IHAVE SOME JP-4,FUEL'A ZIPPO,YOU CAN BORROW TO LITE YOU'R AZZ'EZ UP!!! THEN YOU WILL BE TRUE TO YOU'R CAUSE~ANYTHING ELSE IS LIP SERVICE! IF I WANT ANY LIP, FROM YOU, I WILL SCRAPE IT OFF MY ZIPPER! :iwo:

[Mike McIntyre]

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">A couple of issues:
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
No matter how red blooded, Middle American this guy may seem, he still broke the LAW. There is a reason this law had been passed. If he did not like it, then try and change the law. You liberals on this site would rather get some Pinko Socialist Judge to see it your way, you have the “Freedom of Speech” (even when it does not apply) than to try and get the law changed.

As for “being a Marine is a God given right”, these rights were endowed to us by Our Creator. We have the right to pursue happiness. Because the Phantom chose to take the Lord up on this great honor and the Omega Dusk did not, does not make it any less “God Given”. Omega Dusk, you make my earlier case that many try to claim rights that they have not earned.</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[helen25]

http://www.alternet.org/rights/38883/ to all this is about upside down flags please read then tell me its not illegal thank you helen

[Phantom Blooper]

United States Code Title 4 Chapter 1 — The Flag





§8. Respect for flag


No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burningFrom the liberal rag articles that have been spitting out venomous words and print across the country and on the web shows me nothing. Show me where the farm boy is in extreme danger.. to life.. or his property.

They are WRONG !

Spewing forth and citing liberal rags and what the ACLU thinks doesn't make it right. The ACLU doesn't think religion should be in schools,that it is fine to protest at military funerals..the list is endless!

This liberal rag and the ones ones put out by OTN Chief should join forces with the NY Times. If nothing else I could use them to start a fire and if I run out of $hit paper I can use them to wipe my arse!

God Bless the Republic! NOT blasphemy but FACT!

:evilgrin:

[Zulu 36]

As much as I agree with everyone about improper display/burning of our National Ensign, sadly I must point out in the cited US Code, the operative word used is "should."

In law, "should" is a permissive, just as is "may." Meaning the requirement is not mandatory. If the law read, "shall not" or "will not," then there would be no doubt such activities are a violation of law. However, as written, the law is not binding on anyone. It is unfortunately just a set of guidelines on the proper and respectful treatment of our flag.

[fontman]

Below is my "code"

Respect for flag

No disrespect will be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag will not not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

The flag will never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

The flag will never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.

The flag will never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

The flag will never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It will not never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, will not be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

The flag will never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

The flag will never be used as a covering for a ceiling.

The flag will never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

The flag will never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

The flag will never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It will not not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs will not not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

No part of the flag will ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, will not be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, will be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

:evilgrin:

[ivalis]

don't see where the guy broke any law/regulation

[helen25]

in iowa it is a state law last i knew <br />
Scott Roe was practicing with...

[Osotogary]

In law, "should" is a permissive, just as is "may." Meaning the requirement is not mandatory. If the law read, "shall not" or "will not," then there would be no doubt such activities are a violation of law. However, as written, the law is not binding on anyone. It is unfortunately just a set of guidelines on the proper and respectful treatment of our flag.

I'm not a lawyer but it sure seems that how a law is written is maybe more important than the law itself.

[helen25]

you are right :usmc:

[Mike McIntyre]

It is hard to take the liberal mentality. What the ____? You will argue “Should” is a suggestion not a command?
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
I guess, “It depends on what the meaning of IS, is?” Do you long for past presidents splitting hairs and spinning the English language for their own good? (Or no good in his case)
<o:p></o:p>
What was the INTENT of the law? Now you liberals get literal when it suites you. Yet, you argue INTENT when it does not!!!!!!!
<o:p></o:p>
And when the true story comes out, this guy had a beef with the Cops telling him his music was too loud (infringing on his neighbors rights). This was NOT a protest about VA benefits or how VETS are mistreated.

[Osotogary]

Mike-
What does liberal have to do with any of this? It's a matter of semantics as I see it. There is nothing liberal or conservative about it. Should/may , shall not/will not are used in the english language for all sorts of situations daily with out political ie., conservative or liberal mindset connotations. I think the intent of the law is merely a matter of personal and judicial interpretation with the citizenry getting the trickledown effect.
Me? I would have liked to see "shall not" or "will not". Does this make me a conservative or a liberal? No, it just makes me a person who prefers "shall not" or "would not".

[Mike McIntyre]

Chapter 718A is a whopper. It reads: "Any person who in any manner, for exhibition or display, shall place or cause to be placed, any word, figure, mark, picture, design, drawing, or any advertisement of any nature, upon any flag, standard, color, ensign, shield, or other insignia of the United States, or upon any flag, ensign, great seal, or other insignia of this state, or shall expose or cause to be exposed to public view, any such flag, standard, color, ensign, shield, or other insignia of the United States, or any such flag, ensign, great seal, or other insignia of this state, upon which shall have been printed, painted, or otherwise placed, or to which shall be attached, appended, affixed, or annexed, any word, figure, mark, picture, design, or drawing, or any advertisement of any nature, or who shall expose to public view, manufacture, sell, expose for sale, give away, or have in possession for sale, or to give away, or for use for any purpose any article or substance, being an article of merchandise or a receptacle of merchandise or article or thing for carrying or transporting merchandise, upon which shall have been printed, painted, attached or otherwise placed, a representation of any such flag, standard, color, ensign, shield, or other insignia of the United States, or any such flag, ensign, great seal, or other insignia of this state, to advertise, call attention to, decorate, mark, or distinguish the article or substance on which so placed, or who shall publicly mutilate, deface, defile or defy, trample upon, cast contempt upon, satirize, deride or burlesque, either by words or act, such flag, standard, color, ensign, shield, or other insignia of the United States, or flag, ensign, great seal, or other insignia of this state, or who shall, for any purpose, place such flag, standard, color, ensign, shield, or other insignia of the United States, or flag, ensign, great seal, or other insignia of this state, upon the ground or where the same may be trod upon, shall be deemed guilty of a simple misdemeanor."<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Okay, conservative or liberal, did he break the law? Was he not protesting a totally unrelated issue?<o:p></o:p>
This is also a sign of DISTRESS. Was he in distress? So why is it illegal: to call 911, pull a fire alarm, or yell fire if no distress is indicated?

[Osotogary]

Apples-Oranges, Mike. His actions did not sit well with me either, wether I be a conservative or a liberal and that is my only point in this matter.

[Mike McIntyre]

My Gripe:
<O:p</O:p
Ø This guy was portrayed as a pro-vet type protesting the poor treatment of American Vets. When in fact he was mad because the police made him quiet down when his band was practicing.<O:p></O:p>
Ø He clearly defaced the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><ST1:pAmerica </ST1:p</st1:country-region>Flag which is against the law<O:p</O:p
Ø He flew the flag as a “Distress” which is against the law<O:p</O:p
Ø Several said that the wording of the law was a suggestion when in actuality the law states “Shall” not “Should”.
<O:p</O:p
This is not a “First Amendment” issue

[fontman]

Good point, Gator.

"Shall" vs. "should" are indeed two different words!

:marine:

[Zulu 36]

You all are bitc*in' to the choir. However, I need to point out that we are talking about legal semantics that are not newly re-defined to match the Clintoonian definition of "is."

For a very long time, will/shall, have been mandatory words, both in the legal sense and in common usage, as have should/may been permissive words.

Also, we have been comparing two different laws (legal apples and oranges):

Title 4 US Code, Chapter 1, ss8, is a FEDERAL law using the permissive "should."

The IOWA STATE law, Chapter 718A, uses the mandatory "shall."

They are enforced, criminally, in different courts. Civilly, I'm surprised the American Communists and Liberals Union hasn't taken Iowa to the federal court woodshed over freedom of speech issues. But be that as it may.

Permissive words in law have their important place, as do the mandatory words. For instance, do we want our police use of force laws to say that police officers "shall" shoot anyone who resists them with deadly force? Or would we rather the laws say (as they do), that a police officer "may" utilize deadly force in appropriate circumstances?

As a law enforcement officer for many years, I know the permissive and mandatory words in statutes are what set limits on police authority and discretion. If the use of force laws required me to shoot people in deadly force situations, I would have potentially killed easily over a dozen people, including a stupid 12-year old burglar holding a hacksaw that looked like a handgun in the dark alley we were in. Because I had discretion (and tactical advantage and some luck), my personal body count is zero.

So for better or worse, the federal law uses a permissive word. That is the way it is. If we don't like it, we pressure Congress to change the wording AND specifically remove that law from the jurisdiction of the federal courts and from appelate jurisdiction of the US Supreme Court (as far as determining "constitutionality") - as the US Constitution allows. We don't need a Flag Amendment, just a simple legislative act barring the federal courts from having jurisdiction.

It is already in the Constitution. See Article 3, Section 2.

Personally I think anyone who disrespects my nation's flag should be flown from a flag pole upside down until they rot off the line. But that's just me.

[ivalis]

when it comes to flag desecration i'm more of a purist than the vote trolling *****s in congress.

I, for one, am more offended by the "all american" country stars with the flag facsimile shirts, the brain dead athletes that use it as a shawl, and the pseudo patriots with the tattered flags on their $500 pickup trucks.

What does not offend me is an individual that flies the flag upsidedown as a statement of political protest. That individual is truely a patriot.

[Mike McIntyre]

Thanks for the great information.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
As a law officer, don’t you get sick of the ACLU types, using a law that was written (officer’s discretion) to protect you from killing someone that may have been innocent, against you when you may have a legitimate collar?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
This case had what we call in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>New Orleans</st1:place></st1:City>, attitude written all over it. I can only imagine what the scene was like on that call? <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
How can we expect, solders, marines, and law enforcement to be productive if we are constantly dissecting their every move?<o:p></o:p>

[Mike McIntyre]

THE’RE BACK!!!!!!!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[Osotogary]

Hey, don't talk about my pick up truck that way. LOL.
Fly it properly, fold it properly or put it away in safe keeping properly. No need to make the flag a piece of wearing apparal unless you were naked, dammm near freezing and needed the protection of some sort of fabric to survive.

[Zulu 36]

&lt;o&gt;Mike,&lt;/o&gt;&lt;o&gt; <br />
<br />
&lt;/o&gt;&lt;o&gt;If you're talking about the stupid 12-year old, I had him cold (it was about 15-degrees too). He was flat in the open and I was behind solid cover. Since I had tactical...

[Wyoming]

when it comes to flag desecration i'm more of a purist than the vote trolling *****s in congress.

I, for one, am more offended by the "all american" country stars with the flag facsimile shirts, the brain dead athletes that use it as a shawl, and the pseudo patriots with the tattered flags on their $500 pickup trucks.

What does not offend me is an individual that flies the flag upsidedown as a statement of political protest. That individual is truely a patriot.

Dammit ivalis, I was just starting to like you until I read your last sentence.

Sheeit!!!

[ggyoung]

bigalholmes better be carefull. ivalis is a tax autor.

[wavector]

I believe in the Bill of Rights.

I also believe in the US Constitution.
As the post states, there is policy in the Iowa State Government against desecrating the flag.

This man is committing a criminal act.



This is also a sign of DISTRESS. Was he in distress? So why is it illegal: to call 911, pull a fire alarm, or yell fire if no distress is indicated?

You're both wrong, because of the definition of distress. Leave this person alone, they are totally within their rights you fight and die for. First of all, the flag represents the government you fight for, and not the people. When a government fails to represent the people, then the people have a right to remove that govenment, that's all this person is saying. It's fascist and you know it. If the military didn't brainwash you, you would be able to clearly see it. But you are blind to the truths behind what really goes on in D.C.

Scott
U.S. Army Veteran, 101st Airborne Div.
3rd Brigade 187th Infantry HHC

[USArules]

So this thread was linked too from a article about this person and what people have been doing to him for flying the flag upside down. I am amazed at these comments, but even more that many of you are actually capable of making them.

Lets not forget, you all are in the Marines for a reason. You are the less fortunate of America, your mostly from poor/undereducated families that probably shouldn't be given much voice in America. Your sole purpose is to die. Please refrain from thinking that your voice or views matter. Get your guns, and get out there and die so I can save .50 per gallon on gas.

When you are given voices, this is the sort of drivel that you spew.... America, home of the free, and guarded by the poor.

[outlaw3179]

What I like about that statement is that its over the internet. Your probably just some troll who sits on his computer sipping his latte probably wearing some fagget ass turteneck. Then when you get done writing that you and your hippie friends go to each others houses and bad mouth the government and how your being oppressed. But whats funny is that you know that never could you actually say that to a Marine face to face because you know that you are a spineless , gutless , worthless, feminine , little fagget, and in the event that you did you would truly know what pain and fear are. But thats cool sit at home and look at kiddie porn , and whenever you take breaks from you beatdown sessions come in here. Being a complete pussy is your right and we as Marines will defend your right to talk **** and to be a pussy.

[USArules]

My comment is along the same lines of listening to someone say that others shouldn't be given the right to fly the flag upside down. YOU beleive that a person who speaks out against the US is a Liberal Pinko Commie, and I beleive that you are not educated enough to have a say in American society. Fortunately for both of us the US Constitution protects both of us.

Point being Jarhead that just because you were brainwashed by the goverment does not mean your opinions are correct. Taking someones freedom of speech away, because for whatever reason it offends your minute intelligence, is no better than living in a communist or authoritarian goverment.

Now because I don't agree with you, will you continue to call me a faggot pinko commie? Or maybe a whole new round of **** spewing from your uneducated mouth. Remember, your sole purpose in America is to die, not have a voice...

[Phantom Blooper]

USArules & wavector

[criggleman]

Why the hell is this ****ing piece of **** posting on my Damn website

[Anpheus]

Here's a thought... Perhaps he was in distress? Perhaps he's saying that the constitution is in distress.

When a lawyer wants to be explicit, he will say "can not" or "do not," never "should not." The code is simply a set of guidelines.

Why is it a set of guidelines? How many of you have ever accidentally dropped a flag? If you have, and you think that this man is guilty of breaking US Code, then you're a criminal too. And if you ever want to call yourself a patriot again, you should go turn yourself in. I'm fairly certain the police would laugh and tell you that was a good one.

The fact is, the Constitution is in distress. This man received death threats from men or women in the armed forces because he believes in solidarity, in helping the men and women in the armed forces. He may also believe the war is unjust, etc. Why do you take it as a personal attack upon yourselves?

Most importantly, you need to ask yourselves why you would rather defend a symbol (the flag) than what the flag stands for (the American people.) Instead of defending the man and his rights to do what he wants on his property, you've attacked him, insulted him, and claimed he's all that is evil in the world. The flag isn't the important thing, people. What it stands for is, and it stands for the PEOPLE.

If you are more willing to defend a flag than the people of the United States, you need to question why you consider yourself a patriot. A real patriot of the United States of America should care more about the people of their country than some symbol.



Since when are symbols more important than people? Since when is it acceptable to attack, insult, and degrade a man because of a piece of cloth?

[jinelson]

Lets not forget, you all are in the Marines for a reason. You are the less fortunate of America, your mostly from poor/undereducated families that probably shouldn't be given much voice in America. Your sole purpose is to die. Please refrain from thinking that your voice or views matter. Get your guns, and get out there and die so I can save .50 per gallon on gas.


Thats not an opinion thats disresect to Marines by an outsider!



Stand down he cant post any more tonight.

Jim

[outlaw3179]

My comment is along the same lines of listening to someone say that others shouldn't be given the right to fly the flag upside down. YOU beleive that a person who speaks out against the US is a Liberal Pinko Commie, and I beleive that you are not educated enough to have a say in American society. Fortunately for both of us the US Constitution protects both of us.

Point being Jarhead that just because you were brainwashed by the goverment does not mean your opinions are correct. Taking someones freedom of speech away, because for whatever reason it offends your minute intelligence, is no better than living in a communist or authoritarian goverment.

Now because I don't agree with you, will you continue to call me a faggot pinko commie? Or maybe a whole new round of **** spewing from your uneducated mouth. Remember, your sole purpose in America is to die, not have a voice...


No **** Marines die ! Thats what we do! We will make the ulitimate sacrifice for our country if thats what is aksed for us. You say that like you insult us. Im not calling everyone who disagrees with my opinion a pinko fag...Im just calling you a pinko fag. You think your different and you have your own thoughts because youre saying the same crap every other communist hippie says . Heres a novel idea. Actully take a stand figure out what side your on and make an educated opinion based on actual experiences , relating from your own personal experience . OH and you sound like you hate Marines for one of a few reasons.

1. You got the crap kicked out of you by few Marines
2. You got the crap kicked out of you by a few Marines after they gangbanged your girlfriend
3. You tried to be a Marine and were denied entrance and are ****ed off at the world because you know that you are a non hacker.......and then you got the crap kicked out of you by a few Marines.

[outlaw3179]

sorry Jim timed it wrong :)

[Phantom Blooper]

Anpheus,Heres a thought..................

[troop901]

Here's a thought... Perhaps he was in distress? Perhaps he's saying that the constitution is in distress.

When a lawyer wants to be explicit, he will say "can not" or "do not," never "should not." The code is simply a set of guidelines.

Why is it a set of guidelines? How many of you have ever accidentally dropped a flag? If you have, and you think that this man is guilty of breaking US Code, then you're a criminal too. And if you ever want to call yourself a patriot again, you should go turn yourself in. I'm fairly certain the police would laugh and tell you that was a good one.

The fact is, the Constitution is in distress. This man received death threats from men or women in the armed forces because he believes in solidarity, in helping the men and women in the armed forces. He may also believe the war is unjust, etc. Why do you take it as a personal attack upon yourselves?

Most importantly, you need to ask yourselves why you would rather defend a symbol (the flag) than what the flag stands for (the American people.) Instead of defending the man and his rights to do what he wants on his property, you've attacked him, insulted him, and claimed he's all that is evil in the world. The flag isn't the important thing, people. What it stands for is, and it stands for the PEOPLE.

If you are more willing to defend a flag than the people of the United States, you need to question why you consider yourself a patriot. A real patriot of the United States of America should care more about the people of their country than some symbol.



Since when are symbols more important than people? Since when is it acceptable to attack, insult, and degrade a man because of a piece of cloth?
It is a symbol of the people, it is what many have fought and died for. Stay in college, stay protected by those you disrepect. As they say, those who fight for it, freedom has a special flavor that those protected will never know. We have served so that you can express your opionin, have you served so that we can express ours?

[Anpheus]

To Outlaw: Holy ****, you actually think that it's amusing to imagine men and women in uniform committing assault and rape?

Calm down, Outlaw, you're disgracing the country you stand for.

To Troop901: That's the difference, though. What is more important, the PEOPLE or the SYMBOL? The symbol can be printed on a piece of paper over and over, we can weave it with a hundred different kinds of thread, we can talk about it and we can send it digitally, using the internet; we have no shortage of the symbol. But the people, we only have so many of them, and they have their rights.

[001002003]

Wow. You cock suckers are a bunch of baby killing douchebags. I hope you are aware that facist bull**** like I see on this board is TOTALLY unAmerican. And that you deserve to be shot for desecrating the US military with your stupidity and hate.

[criggleman]

Hey Phantom,

I like that.

[outlaw3179]

We fought for our freedom.....Howd you get yours fukhead?

[001002003]

Last I checked, freedom was pretty god damn free since WWII. You knob jockeys just come up with excuses to blow brown people up so you do'nt feel as bad about your tiny dicks.

[outlaw3179]

Since when has freedom been free?

[Manrahan6]

This is ridiculous how big of a deal you people are making this. I understand where you are coming from and i understand where this guy is coming from. He is just trying to get his point across and he is doing an excellent job of doing it. He has already got you starting a forum over this and arguing back and forth about it. You're just giving him more power. He has his reasons for flying the flag upside down and he should be supported because he is getting ripped off by the state.

[001002003]

Since we beat the Germans, and didn't need to fight anymore. Pretty much every conflict afterwards has made that quite clear.

But I suppose according to this website, freedom isn't free. And I'm a criminal for saying otherwise. So you'll ban me and threaten me, and then say you're the only reason we're not under siege from "terrorists".

[troop901]

Last I checked, freedom was pretty god damn free since WWII. You knob jockeys just come up with excuses to blow brown people up so you do'nt feel as bad about your tiny dicks.
Why do ya think it was free since then, hmm, from the blood and sweet of those who served, yer a lil into pricks aint ya, sorta have a fetish there dont ya, join some other service, oh, ya cant, that nasty dont ask dont tell thing and your so proud of being gay.

[Scribble]

My Dad died for that long cat!

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/dejo/longcat.jpg

[Anpheus]

Please, just ignore the trolls and actually respond to people who care about the argument.

PLEASE ignore the trolls. This forum thread was linked to from digg.com, and so it's getting a lot of traffic. A lot of those people who register at this site will probably just be trolls looking to **** one of you guys off. Ignore them.

I am interested in civil debate, so long as you keep things civil on your end.

So I will ask you, Outlaw, do you believe that it is a Marine's right to commit assault or rape? Do you believe it is alright for men and women in uniform to commit assault or rape?

[001002003]

Why do ya think it was free since then, hmm, from the blood and sweet of those who served, yer a lil into pricks aint ya, sorta have a fetish there dont ya, join some other service, oh, ya cant, that nasty dont ask dont tell thing and your so proud of being gay.So anyone who doesn't agree with you must be gay? And must be deserving of ridicule? Really "free" viewpoint you have there, hate monger.

[criggleman]

Wow. You cock suckers are a bunch of baby killing douchebags. I hope you are aware that facist bull**** like I see on this board is TOTALLY unAmerican. And that you deserve to be shot for desecrating the US military with your stupidity and hate.

Feel free to try AS*HOLE

[001002003]

Feel free to try AS*HOLEI shouldn't have to. Any real Marine would blow your facist ass away on principle.

[outlaw3179]

What do you think ? We have families and if we believed it was correct to do that , then we would be just as evil as the evil men were killing in Iraq. You kids just have no idea. and you never will because of men who will actually pick up a rifle and not just just talk ****.

[001002003]

What do you think ? We have families and if we believed it was correct to do that , then we would be just as evil as the evil men were killing in Iraq. You kids just have no idea. and you never will because of men who will actually pick up a rifle and not just just talk ****.Cause you know how evil everyone in Iraq is :cry:

[outlaw3179]

Military age males are , killing some people is fun ......damn I hate hippies.

[001002003]

Military age males are , killing some people is fun ......damn I hate hippies.So killing nonChristians just sort of rings your bell I suppose?

Yeah, that whole freedom of religion thing is bull****. White protestants only on this planet! Eh comrades? eh?

[master]

You people should be ashamed of yourselves. This guy is trying to express his freedoms given to him by the Bill of Rights. You people are sitting here wanting to silence him and take away the very freedoms that you, as a marine, are supposed to protect and fight for. The same freedoms you promised to die for. I for one applaud this man and hope he keeps up his protests any way he can.

Oh and here is just some of the things people are saying about y'all elsewhere.

"As a military veteran who was sworn to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic (not the flag, not any government of any politician or party), I reserve the right to fly the flag upside down or even burn it to express distress at attacks on the Constitution or its abrogation by our officials who are also sworn to protect it."

"It's comforting to know there are Marines defending our country, who think it's a good idea to *KILL* a citizen for exercising the freedoms they so proudly protect."

"The upside down flag is a symbol of distress. All true patriots realize that our country is indeed in distress. The arrest of this farmer for airing his opinion illustrates perfectly how far our country has come from the Constitution."

"Zealotry is not patriotism."

"Stupid people fight for symbols, good people fight for the ideas those symbols represent."

"I always find it ironic that the same people that call people like this guy un-American, are the same people trying to remove his 1st amendment rights.

Yeah, real American... ****ing hypocrites."

"It starts to bring tears to my eyes when a citizen of the USA wants to kill another citizen over his practicing of free speech. Yet, I remain hopeful that things will improve and that we can stop being so polarized and start being more inclusive."

"A bunch of bigots who do NOT respect freedom are terrorizing this man. But this man knows what freedom really is. He knows what free speech really is. And he knows what it means to support and love one's neighbor.

The bigots don't realize, that by violating this man's rights, they violate their own - and may eventually give them up by being imprisoned (if they take it much too far). If a man isn't free to fly his flag as he likes, in accordance with his Free Speech - or even burn it - he is not FREE.

Here's a man who's side it is easy to be ON."

"these marines should be ashamed to even call themselves Americans. Freedoms which this farmer is displaying are the very things the marines boast of fighting to preserve."

"I don't like what he's saying, but I'd defend to the death his right to say these idiotic things. I seriously doubt the patriotism of anyone trying to silence him."

[troop901]

[QUOTE=001002003]So anyone who doesn't agree with you must be gay? And must be deserving of ridicule? Really "free" viewpoint you have there, hate monger.[/QUOTE
No, you have a penchant fer talking about pricks and such so thats why you are gay. You have the right to your opionin, I served my country so that you could express yourself, have you? You speak of freedom of speech, what have you done to protect it? Have you served, have you been there, have you done that? What have you done other then spout off at the mouth for what others fought for to give you the right to do so?

[criggleman]

He's a waste of time.

[outlaw3179]

obviously you and I are not going to see eye to eye on this......so dont worry about it....

[001002003]

Thanks for getting the joke, Master. Happy there's one guy on here who isn't a total meathead.

[thedrifter]

Thread is locked .......