Every War, Military are charged with crimes?

[redneck13]

:mad: This news about Marines killing "innocent" civilian's? For my 2cents, every war I would imagine civilians were killed for whatever reason. I know from reading some books in Vietnam, many...

[Sixguns]

It is disturbing to hear how Marines and soldiers are losing their lives and limbs in war. Most of this happens at the hands of "civilians" who do not wear uniforms or display any insignia. When these warriors realize the true threat that is infront of them, it is too late. When will someone start taking the side of our troops? The fog of war is a reality. Why does the media continue to pursue stories of combat troops "mistreating" Iraqis, when reporters and troops are being killed or attacked daily? The reality is this is war. The goal -- stay alive and return home (hopefully) alive.

[Osotogary]

I'm still trying to figure out when the folks responsible for the death, mutilation and public display of those contracted workers will ever be found and punished? I'm still trying to figure out what's going on with Sadaam's trial and why is it so difficult to prosecuted him?

"It is disturbing to hear how Marines and soldiers are losing their lives and limbs in war. Most of this happens at the hands of "civilians" who do not wear uniforms or display any insignia. When these warriors realize the true threat that is infront of them, it is too late. When will someone start taking the side of our troops? The fog of war is a reality. Why does the media continue to pursue stories of combat troops "mistreating" Iraqis, when reporters and troops are being killed or attacked daily? The reality is this is war. The goal -- stay alive and return home (hopefully) alive." Sixguns


No matter what you do, be it good or bad, if you go into someones back yard without concensus permission from those who own that backyard you can do no right...even if you have the best intentions and the resources to vastly improve that backyard.

Our Armed Forces personnel are doing a splendid job under the most adverse of circumstances (God Bless them) but until Iraqi's (not Iranians, Jordanians, Saudi Arabians, Egyptians etc.) populace can get itself together and form a national unity and identity the United States will always be a handy target board for constant blame from those who cannot do the job, or want the job, of unification themselves.

[ChristianMedia]

If they didn't need the medicine they would not being knocking on the doctor's door. They only hope we won't mow down their human shields to get at them. They've always been mistaken. Marines fight to win. If you want them to lay down and call for orders, send the Army.
;)


http://www.usmcmuseum.org/graphics/ProdImages/10_453.jpg

[lovdog]

Lets take a breath here a minute. If you look at the Iraq war - there are some major differences that the U.S. Forces are faced with. The U.S. is caught smack dab in the middle of this war. We have Insurgents coming from a half dozen different Countries, plus there are still the "Hardliners" left over from the Sadaam Regime "and" to make matters worse, now, we have the three in country parties fighting among themselves "and" teaming against us - until we decide whose side we are on - and its getting difficult for the U.S. to remain neutral. And, don't forget the "ones" that just plain hate the U.S. and everything it stands for!! And, if you look at the statistics lately, alot of our casualities have been from bombs set off from remote locations or booby traps - that way, you sacrifice very few of your own men. Or, a suicide bomber (one person) that kills many - in military terms - you sacrifice one for five and those numbers are in their favor - not ours! Our troops - most don't know the language either, so this compounds the problem, not to mention that we have no idea how to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys!! Plus, the longer this war goes on without the Iraq support taking over, the general American public will constantly tire of sacrificing our boys & girls for a country that year after year drains us of vast sums of money and lives of our loved ones!! Marines are usually in the front lines - so this makes us vulnerable to the Media attention - no matter what we do. Bad things that happen sells more newpapers and people pay more attention to also, the good things usually get swept under the rug.
Wind knows how "our" war was fought - and it was a good idea "not" to have a war correspondent with you when you went out on a mission. In war, innocents do die - sometimes it can't be helped. Thats why it is so important "before" we go to war to think about the "cost" of war - because its usually the innocents that take the brunt of our military wrath.
When we launced the cruise missles into Bagdad did we really believe that women and children would not become casualties??
Lets look at the other side of the coin - you are a Iraqi citizen and you work driving a dump truck - your a good guy, just want to raise your family and be let alone. Your view the U.S. Military as a Godsend!! Now, someone from the U.S. kills your wife or one of your kids, whether it be a missle, bomb, bullet, whatever. Now - your ****ed!! The U.S. is no longer the good guys but someone you now hate. Now, the U.S. is your enemy - and you vow to do what is necessary to take out "your" vengence on them!! Waht would you do in their place??There are always two sides to every story gents!! SF

[Osotogary]

Good input, lovdog. You are dammned if you do, dammned if you don't.

If I am an Iraqi truck driver do I get more upset over a neighbor Syrian suicide bomber who not only just killed himself but also my relatives who just happened to be shopping in a market place, or to the United States Marine who represents the country of the bomb that just destroyed my village and friends?
If I am an Iraqi truck driver, do I hate the (imported) mujahedeen (?) fighters who just used my innocent family as human shields while they initiated an ambush with America Forces or do I hate the American Forces for firing back? Do I hate the insurgents for setting up firing positions on top my mosque?
Either way, if you are caught in the middle, both sides of the coin don't look too good.

[jennifer]

I'm sure that if these people who are prosecuting these Marines were put in their shoes then they would probably do the same. It's all upon situation and I'm sure they had a reason as to why they did what they did. And even if they didn't then boo hoo!! It was most of those Marines 3rd time being out there and they have just seen too much and been through so much, they just snap... I am damn proud of my fellow brothers and sisters who are out there!!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!! ERRRR, KILL!!!

[redneck13]

:evilgrin: :mad: :flag: You are so right Jen....Would you believe, they are sending troops, Marines, back over with symptoms of P.T.S.D.? IT WAS REPORTED ON THE WONDERFUL NEWS. But, who in the hell pays any attention to this? NOBODY....The U.S. GOV'T, DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS IF YOU'RE SO F****UP OR FUBAR'D, YOU'RE A BODY, SEND 'EM, THAT'S ALL RUMMY DUMMY THINKS ABOUT. I love my Corps, I love Marines, I love all in harms way. Yer right, "what about checking them out before sending them back within 3 mos? OOOOOHHHHH THIS IS A MIGHTY SORE DAMN SUBJECT TO ME. That's why, I think all this B**S*** is nothing but being "POLITICALLY CORRECT", and if it means taking somebody down to do it, i.e. these Marines? Well so be it. NO COUNT *&^%$#()*&)(*^)(^)(*^)^()^(&*&%%%$#$#^!!!! SF

[outlaw3179]

I can appreciat every single Marines opinion on this. but every Marine knows right from wrong. Shooting a vehicle coming at you and later finding out it contained only a family is one thing, shooting a home from far distances and later finding it contained a family is one thing. Entering a home and shooting a family at close range is another. I in no way am some liberal tree hugging , owl saving , manitee watching , military hating person. But I know whats right from wrong. Believe me Ive gotten in trouble for doing the wrong thing before. Marines know that you cannot shoot unarmed civillians. Note I didnt say innocent. Ive said this before . The attitude of "fuk em , kill em all" does not work. Thats why we are different . Thats why we are there . We are not like those people who go around killing , beating up women, torturing kids, and commiting atrocities. If that happens you become an insurgent who uses fear to attain your goal.

[redneck13]

:banana: :flag: :evilgrin: There you go again lovdog, making sense for us, but, it's so right what you say. Dag nab it, you need to be an author. Back to the point.
This happened it Nam, (even though Iraq, I think some feel is being played up in a disrespectful way of being Vietnamized) you'd see a Village, (except for Mountainyards), in my case we'd be afar. You'd see VC in it. Then you'd report it, or at least I did. Then I'd get order's, "BLOW IT UP!!" "FIREMISSION OVER!" The loss of innocent lives didn't matter. But, when the grunts would go in and sweep the area? They were hated, booby traps, pungie pits, mines, from civilian's, who were some kind of ****ed at America. A no win situation.
And a no win situation for them either. When Charlie weren't around? Well, "GI" "Number 1" When VC/NVA around?, "Ah, Number 1." They too fought three enemies. Not unlike you said with your great "making sense" (I call it) writing. So, with the latest killing of one of the Al Queda's top Gen's, if you will, the snakes head still hasn't been cut off deep enough. And our troops/Marines will continue to fight, die, innocent people will too. It is just like the land of OZ in my book, and dat burn it, we need to get them sumbeaches, and get the hell out. Just my two cents worth. Carry on Maggot's.

[ggyoung]

Wind'nface. You are a Vietnam Vet. Right. How meany times have you seen a Marine in a fire fight stop firing becouse mam-son or a little kid get in the line of fire. He then gets killed. It happened...

[marinegreen]

how come the media didnt report that the sunnis were using these civilians as shields,what are our /my Brother Marines suppose to do,throw rocks or take cover and wait until the shooting stops. I'm sic and tired about hearing how MARINES are trigger hungry murders. The civilians just dont get it, 3 tours is walking a very tight rope, what will be said when our men/women are on there 4-5-6th tour.What is our govt gonna do for the troops coming back that are basket cases who could go postal at anytime. I get a kick outta hearing how the politicians want better training for our troops to make them in better control, why diodnt they think of that from the get-go, duhhhhh !!

[redneck13]

:beer: You're right as far as the Killing sometimes of innocent people during Nam. I never seen it happen, as my contact with Civilians, villages, were from afar, being in Recon. But, I know from hearing Marines in therapy, actually sobbing because of what they did to civilians. I did however...well I can't say that, because it's going to be in an article I write for the Ezine. I will gg, get a peek at that book. Thanks for the info. And, thanks for setting the record straight.
I only seen what the press released, and when they did, it seemed more like some set up to Calley. I do know this though.....I came mighty close to doing something I would've regretted forever, as I was at my breaking point, and I think, hoping not, that these Marines weren't at that point, close but no cigar. Cause....I could've slaughtered many, and was ready to do it, after a team I went out with, my Pad's, got wacked, with only one survivor, I was ready to kill anything, anybody. Thanks again my Friend. SF

[redneck13]

how come the media didnt report that the sunnis were using these civilians as shields,what are our /my Brother Marines suppose to do,throw rocks or take cover and wait until the shooting stops. I'm sic and tired about hearing how MARINES are trigger hungry murders. The civilians just dont get it, 3 tours is walking a very tight rope, what will be said when our men/women are on there 4-5-6th tour.What is our govt gonna do for the troops coming back that are basket cases who could go postal at anytime. I get a kick outta hearing how the politicians want better training for our troops to make them in better control, why diodnt they think of that from the get-go, duhhhhh !!
:mad: :evilgrin: Boy howdy, you got it right on the money Brother. It's a big..."DUH" for our stupid Gubmit!!!" SF

[ChristianMedia]

Our military has always commited war crimes, as have all nations. The only time it's celebrated [in the mainstream media, excluding FOX NEWS] is when a Republican is President. Think like CNN, believe we're the bad guys, hope we lose the war, cherish our war crimes like manna from heaven. It's the only hope Democrats have left. Anyone who watches CNN. CBS, NBC or ABC is not only clueless, but is soon to be mis-led down the communist subversive path.



http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/UpsetDemocrats/images/benson.gif

[redneck13]

:mad: :evilgrin: :flag: All I would add here is what Christian Media said..."if you watch anything but Fox news, you'll be "told" they never just report and let "us" decide. Good post Christian. SF

[ChristianMedia]

Just type "communist manifesto democrat" into a search engine [and hurry] just in case hell freezes overnight, the Democrats win - and we turn into the Chinese internet.


http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/images/home_02.jpg

Web Results

Page 1 of 40,670 results containing communist manifesto democrat (0.44 seconds)


Results

Karl Kautsky: Is the "Communist Manifesto" Obsolete? (1904) (http://www.marxists.org/archive/kautsky/1904/xx/manifesto.htm)

Karl Kautsky: To What Extent is the 'Communist Manifesto' Obsolete? (1904) ... Source: From Social Democrat , Vol.9 no.?, 1905, pp.155-164. Originally published: Leipziger ...
<LI class=first>www.marxists.org/archive/kautsky/1904/xx/manifesto.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/kautsky/1904/xx/manifesto.htm)
Cached page (http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=3296666216215&lang=en-US&mkt=en-US&FORM=CVRE)
Communist Manifesto (http://www.taxguru.org/politics/Commies.htm)

COMMUNIST MANIFESTO . The official manifesto was published in February 1848 by Karl Marx and Friedrich ... in the English language translation. Resemblance to the platform of the modern Democrat ...

<LI class=first>www.taxguru.org/politics/Commies.htm (http://www.taxguru.org/politics/Commies.htm)
Cached page (http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=3307810829796&lang=en-US&mkt=en-US&FORM=CVRE2)
ComInterNet: Listing of World Communist & Workers Parties (http://www.angelfire.com/la/cominternet/index.html)

The Communist Manifesto is the first expression of the modern working-class outlook. Originally written in 1848, this is a hypertext version of the English edition of 1888 published by Karl Marx and ...

<LI class=first>www.angelfire.com/la/cominternet/index.html (http://www.angelfire.com/la/cominternet/index.html)
Cached page (http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=3299929228001&lang=en-US&mkt=en-US&FORM=CVRE3)
The Communist Manifesto (http://www.tax-freedom.com/ta12001.htm)

The Communist Manifesto. The Communist Manifesto. The Communist Manifesto INCOME TAX IS THE SECOND PLANK OF ... HIS NAME IS DEMOCRAT, his alias is REPUBLICAN ! VOTE LIBERTARIAN, the only party in America ...


www.tax-freedom.com/ta12001.htm (http://www.tax-freedom.com/ta12001.htm)
Cached page (http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=3309423389943&lang=en-US&mkt=en-US&FORM=CVRE4)
THE CHRISTIAN DEMOCRAT MANIFESTO (http://www.romaniiliberi.org/documents/Christian%20Democrat%20Manifesto.pdf)

THE CHRISTIAN DEMOCRAT MANIFESTO We, the Christian Democrats of the Party which ... The objectives of the anti-communist resistance – still applicable today – are ...

www.romaniiliberi.org/documents/Christian%20Democrat% (http://www.romaniiliberi.org/documents/Christian%20Democrat%) 20Manifesto.pdf
Cached page (http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=3325437020611&lang=en-US&mkt=en-US&FORM=CVRE5)
PDF file
6/7/2006

[marinegreen]

Dude your totaly brainwashed, seek medical help ASAP, you need it. What are you gonna say when the day comes when you find out that both pilots who dropped 500 lbs of heavy metal were libs and the planes they were flying weere built with libs hands, come on dude, get a life. Seriously we'll get you the help you need.

[marinegreen]

I just seen something today blondinblu but will have to get basck at-cha on it. I'm wondering why some of our countries top lawyers arent jumping on this to defend these guys or how come the trumps,gates,the winfreys arent sending $$ for there defense.

[redneck13]

:D :banana: :flag: Hey ya'll, read the Drifter's post about Haditha.....it may help you understand some more of how these Marines maybe getting the shaft, because of "political" reasons. It's good.
Carry on Maggot's.

[redneck13]

:evilgrin: :flag: :!: This isn't about conservatives, Republican's/Democrats/Independents...It's about our fellow Marines who might be getting the shaft because it might be "politically" motivated, and need to keep our focus on this. It don't make any difference of "race, religion, creed, politic's", as we all bleed green, and we should remember that in the past there's been allegations and some were not true. And then I wonder what motivated this person who "possibly broke" the story was? And let's be nice, K?

[marinegreen]

I concur, enough with the party affiliations. To many evil forces out there wanting to totally divide this nation and I would dang sure hate to see another 9/11 senerio just to see us all come together for a short period of time like it did after 9/11. Our consern and goal should be about getting our troops home and seeing what its gonna take to HELP out our fellow MARINES who are getting doinked from the rear without as much as a frontal reach around over the prison/civilian scandal

[ChristianMedia]

. What are you gonna say when the day comes when you find out that both pilots who dropped 500 lbs of heavy metal were libs

Not possible, libs are too weak-minded to pickle. The tears make their eyes blur and their C.O's transfer them to supply [early on] before they can interfere, sabotage or betray their comrades.


http://afsf.lackland.af.mil/Images/WWII/images/WWII%20911_jpg.jpg (http://afsf.lackland.af.mil/Images/WWII/images/WWII%20911_jpg.jpg)

[ChristianMedia]

Our consern and goal should be about getting our troops home

Negative, our concern is to provide more air-drop logistics, forward deployed, aka, ammo, beer and c-rats -- and in that order. Only wussies in pink panties and nipple-pinching bras want to pull Marines off the front line when there are more people to kill - and all the free ammo you can load and let loose with finger-cramping regularity. I'm beginning to think you're not for real. Any Marine who talks like you would be the platoon slapping doll, along with getting office hours for sounding as queer as a 4 dollar bill.


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/ChristianMediaUSA/smackdown.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/ChristianMediaUSA/?) </TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>


</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[ChristianMedia]

This is what real Marines sound like along with real Americans:


http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=805834308&n=2 (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=805834308&n=2)&



http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/ChristianMediaUSA/th_usmc.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/ChristianMediaUSA/?action=view&current=usmc.jpg)


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/ChristianMediaUSA/flushujja.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/ChristianMediaUSA/?)


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[outlaw3179]

[QUOTE=ChristianMedia]Negative, our concern is to provide more air-drop logistics, forward deployed, aka, ammo, beer and c-rats -- and in that order. Only wussies in pink panties and nipple-pinching bras want to pull Marines off the front line when there are more people to kill - and all the free ammo you can load and let loose with finger-cramping regularity. I'm beginning to think you're not for real. Any Marine who talks like you would be the platoon slapping doll, along with getting office hours for sounding as queer as a 4 dollar bill.

QUOTE]



Wow!!!! Out******standing!

[ChristianMedia]

Make username, fast and free: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.fullsearch

The 3-round mortar bracket: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&n=2&videoid=797143551&


Baghdad... (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=810374381&n=2&Mytoken=FD6FD54D-7DA3-CD0B-E281EF315B9164CC11553106)



<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle>
http://myspace-945.vo.llnwd.net/00809/54/92/809952945_thumb2.jpg (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&n=2&videoid=809952945&Mytoken=FD6FD54D-7DA3-CD0B-E281EF315B9164CC11553106)
mean streets of iraq (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=809952945&n=2&Mytoken=FD6FD54D-7DA3-CD0B-E281EF315B9164CC11553106)


Categories: Extreme Videos (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individualchannels&channelid=6&n=3&cname=Extreme%20Videos&&Mytoken=FD6FD54D-7DA3-CD0B-E281EF315B9164CC11553106)
Tags:
Plays: 442 | Comments: 5
http://x.myspace.com/images/vids/b_men5.gif








</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle>
Dead (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=809918259&n=2&Mytoken=FD6FD54D-7DA3-CD0B-E281EF315B9164CC11553106)

Abu Al-Zarqawi is dead.
Categories: News and Politics (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individualchannels&channelid=10&n=3&cname=News%20and%20Politics&&Mytoken=FD6FD54D-7DA3-CD0B-E281EF315B9164CC11553106)
Tags: 911 (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.search&t=911&n=2&&Mytoken=FD6FD54D-7DA3-CD0B-E281EF315B9164CC11553106), bush (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.search&t=bush&n=2&&Mytoken=FD6FD54D-7DA3-CD0B-E281EF315B9164CC11553106), iraq (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.search&t=iraq&n=2&&Mytoken=FD6FD54D-7DA3-CD0B-E281EF315B9164CC11553106), wtc (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.search&t=wtc&n=2&&Mytoken=FD6FD54D-7DA3-CD0B-E281EF315B9164CC11553106)
Plays: 749 | Comments: 5
http://x.myspace.com/images/vids/b_men5.gif










</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[redneck13]

:nerd: :banana: :flag: Christian? I think you've made your point clear, hey? enough already, respectfully said. You've given plenty of sites we can visit, and you've made yourself clear. I-myself, thank you, and it has been good information....it's getting repetitive....Not that I don't enjoy it. But let's move on with something else, just my opinion, with all respect to you. SF

[ChristianMedia]

When I give you the key to my free speech locker, turn it.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/ChristianMediaUSA/Deanturn.gif (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/ChristianMediaUSA/?)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[redneck13]

:D :banana: :flag: Hey? I didn't mean any offense about your post's. I wouldn't even think of trying to take away your free speech concerns. I just think you've made your point very clear and maybe you could move onto something else. I mean no disrespect Sir. If you desire, continue, all is appreciated by me. But, I'd like to see something else you can come up with, cause it's very good. SF Brother

[ChristianMedia]

I'm one thing if nothing else, consistent.
:nerd:

[marinegreen]

WOW Christianmedia, you are one real tough soma***** arent you or at least you make your words sound like you are. I guaran-goll-damn tee you you'll never keep up with this wussie as you call those of us who say time to bring em home,we dont belong in fuqing someone else's civil war. You dont impress me one bit with the tough guy talk, in fact your showing some of us what kinda idiot you are but hey good luck and have fun posting as some of your post are hysterical. SF

[redneck13]

Marine Green? Wow, I couldn't have said it better, thank you, Great Job, you got more guts than I do to say what I wanted to say.,SF.:banana: :flag: :!:

[junker316]

I have just been dianosed with PTSD after 3 tours in Iraq. Yet every time I think about what I was in and how hard it was for me to watch fellow Marines and Soldiers die in front of my eyes I get this feeling that...well it's hard to explain. But when I hear all this Sh&t from people who haven't been there and haven't seen sh&t talking about sh&t they know nothing about then I say F--- Them.

I keep being told that I will have to watch my temper and not do anything that will keep me in contact with people who **** me off for the rest of my life. I wonder how that will happen when there are so many of them out there waiting their chance to confront me with issues that they never experienced. I worst fear was to be dianosed with PTSD because I was always told that if I was then I was weak or crazy or even delusional. Well I am here to say that I had this ever since Desert Storm and yet ever time I went over there to do my duty it got worse. So how can these A$$holes say that these Marines and Soldiers aren't suffering and that they are killing innocents? Maybe if these idiots went over and did what the military is doing and their lives were on the line every day for months on end then they would see the light. There are innocents there and the enemy are using them as shields and such but there are also those who back the enemy and are posing as innocents. It is very hard to tell the difference and when I was there I didn't take any chances that endangered those under me. If they moved when they were told to stay still them they got what they deserved. if they got in my face then they got what they deserved. At that point they were no longer innocent but a distraction of my mission. And my mission was simple...to get rid of the enemy, whether dead or captured, and to free the people of the place I was at of the potential threat of retaliation. Collateral Damage was always there but kept to a minimum. An Innocent was never killed on purpose unless it was from the enemy and blamed on the US Forces.

The only thing other than surviving on the minds of every person there is to return home in one piece if possible. But when you are suffering from PTSD while there your mind gets even more screwed up and sometimes you don't want to return home...you'd rather die. You don't want to put your family and friends through the symtoms of PTSD and you don't understand why you feel the way you do. So if you die then you don't have to worry about either. I was that far along before I got sent to find help for it. I wanted to return to Iraq for a forth time just so I wouldn't return home to face the suffering of my family because of me. I was willing to go to any battle field whether Afgahnistan or Iraq. Not to kill unless necessary but to be killed.

So ChritianMedia when you want to open your mouth about having some-one ***** slapped like a doll or some-one being queer as a 4 dollar bill maybe you would like to go over there and meet the Iraq enemy and watch your people get killed for a while. Maybe ypou would enjoy the feeling of coming home when the ones you were close with isn't there beside you. I fought for your right to open your suck hole and I can deal with that. But when you speech about things that you haven't been through and make yourself sound so tough then I think it's about time you join the military and go over and put your money where your mouth is.

[marinegreen]

He's run that gap underneath his nose enough junker316 and made enough childish insults that he has been put on notice. Granted everybody is righteous in there own minds but some carry it alil to far and think that we all should think exactly like them. He about had me totlly drawn into his lil back and forth game but I'm pulling back on the reins cuz I wont be put on notice because some chump completely pi**ed me off. Stay strong junker316,post depression is a bit** SF Marine, you served well

[CAS3]

1. How can "CHRISTIAN" be so one-sided and be a veteran advocate?(check his profile)

2. How can he "want" our troops in harms way?(as seen by outlandish "gung-ho" comments)

3. How can you NOT want an end to this war and have every servicemember home safely? (provide more air-drop logistics, forward deployed..)

4. Who in their "right" mind actually uses myspace.com? Unless of course you are a teenage girl or a pediphile. (see above)


I am in complete suport of the Commander in Chief because I am, in my heart, a Marine and know I have to be supportive. ( I AM NOT A LIBERAL)
However, I do not like the idea of these men and women loosing lives, appendages and their minds. I have seen the results from Vietnam vets and have counseled more than my fair share. I do not wish those afflictions on anyone. I say, "Get the friggin job done and come home quickly"!

[outlaw3179]

Wow...I really like how if someone doesnt agree with what everyone else is saying theyre looked down upon and theyre made to feel like they shoulnt be allowed to say what they want or fee. Christian is a little rough around the edges , but then again ..what Marine isnt? He has the same right to say what he feels because thats how he feels. He doesnt speak for every veteran , the same as neither of any of you. If you dont like what hes saying , fine, dont like it. You dont have to...thats the cool thing about this cool thing called democracy.
I know many of my friends who have come back not the same after going over to Iraq either once or numerous times. It sucks talking to someone and knowing that theyve changed and nothing will ever be the same for them. But those same friends that I have will go back again if asked to. The same reason I will go probably go back in about a year or so. The reason is this....
Marines are protectors of America and when they are asked to place themselves in harms way, they will constantly do it , because fof the love for their families , their friends, and a sense of duty and commitment.
Of course no one wants to leave their families and go die in some P.O.S city in some fuked up foreign country. But Marines will go . because thats what we do....ever since day one of boot camp were told . We are here to fight . Were here to find the bad guys and kill them. Ask most of the Marines that are over there. Of course they want to be home but at the same time , theyre doing what theyve always trained to do.
Sure we could come home and leave the job unfinished . Sure we could just pretend that the insurgency hasnt used Iraq as a training ground to try out tactics, practice their bomb making skills , and refine their terrorist tactics and sure we could just cross our fingers and hope that the world situation gets better, and everyon just likes us.
Or we could face reality and accept the fact that we are in a war. That we will be in a war for a long time. Maybe someday soon we will leave Iraq, but the fighting will not stop. We will just have to move to another soil. An insurgency accomplishes its mission by breaking the resolve of the people. Unity and focus will help us accomplish the mission.
But hey we could just wait around for a while hope things get better then when the next 9/11 happens everyone then will say "how did this happen" and then well try to find some people to blame. Id go with option one ...to Locate , close with , and destroy.
Oh and Im not just saying this becuz I saw a cool programm on CNN or Fox. Im a grunt who walked down the same city streets on the same combat patrols and was shot at and shot back, and Im going back again... So yeah I can say whatever the hell I want to also.

[lovdog]

Your "on the money" Outlaw - everyone should have the right to say what is on his mind - thats why I love this site!! The problem with this post is that Wind hit on a "tender nerve" with all of us! Because of Iraq - most of us have our own reasons why we should be there, shouldn't be there, how to handle a bad situation now that we are there, and most of all - how do we get the hell out with keeping our honor in tact along the way? No one is questioning a Marines bravery, duty to ones country, or defense of our nation - this we will always have because it was bred into all of us. There are those that will go back into harms way again and again - no matter what the odds, because of his heartfelt obligation to do whatever is necessary to win the battle.
Those of us that went thru the Vietnam saga have seen the similarities of this war carry over onto your war in Iraq. Different place, different time - but the rules remain the same - "only the US Military has them"!! We try to abide by rules and regulations as much as we can but in war, like I've always said -you become your environment!! If your in the front lines, day after day, taking the heat or getting constantly shelled - you have a tendancy to get ***ed off rather easily. After months of this you start to develop the "screw the Geneva Convention"!! Whoever in Switzerland ever gave a flying f*ck about a US Marine anyway!! Besides, why do the insurgents or the (Viet Cong) get to fight any way they want and we have to walk on eggshells?? Then it finally becomes a kill or be killed situation - its survival, and usually the one that is the most violent wins the day!! I think this point was taken in WWII when we started bombing the German civilian population and dropping a couple of nukes in Japan. This seemed the only way to get the bad guys to finally throw up their hands & say "ok, I've had enough"!! As long as we have to fight the insurgent military - they can keep going as long as we can - its almost like a box of kleenex tissues - you kill one and another pops up in its place! Thats why our war and your war are the same. We were willing to fight - and to go back again time after time just like you guys. Its just that after 10 years or so - how many more will die and for what purpose? That was our dilemma! Now this war has the same problems. And, how do you diffuse this conflict - because it could continue long past 10 years, surpassing Vietnam in longevity!
I thought - or had hoped that Iraq was to become our ally thru this engagement? Am I missing something here? Do we just withdraw our troops and thats it after our occupation? At the cost of so many lives and misery and we are supposed to just walk away? Will this be another Vietnam - we just leave and let the country go back to its original state? Or, how many more insurgents do we have to kill before our vengence for 9/11 is finally justified? 10 maybe 20 thousand more should do the trick? Stay until the good Iraqi's take over - sure - thats gonna happen soon!! Or do we just stay intil the last insurgent falls - or Halliburton runs out of power plants to rebuild? Or, when the total bill reaches 1 trillion dollars - thats when we leave? That sounds like a good round number.
Lets not forget, the longer we are in country with our military - the more the Marines will be exposed to the killing of the innocents along the way and since the media is hot on our trail now - I'm sure that Congressional inquiries will play follow the leader too. Politicians send Marines into a war and are the first to turn against us when a few things start to sour - and God forbid - they take any responsibility for their actions for sending us in the first place!!!
I guess if I was in the Iraq war - I would be hesitant about taking along a correspondent. And if they were present - I'd just tell everyone to be on their best behavior. If they weren't along - then the gloves come off!! Take care of yourself and your men because your the only ones that you can truly count on!! Just keep opening up that can of "Whoop Ass" til its over I guess - thats what Marines do best as I recall!! SF

[Noci]

It's so eay to judge from your couch in good ole USA that those boys are fighting for!

[redneck13]

:mad: :evilgrin: :flag: Outlaw? I know how you feel, I can feel it right now, as you so "ADMIREDLY" Put it how it is living with PTSD. And hell no Christian, you "Wimp", shut the F*** up, until you been in Outlaw's shoes, Lovdog's, Mine, and countless other's, take that hole below your nose, and keep it the F***d shut, you're an "A***H***, and no Outlaw, he don't have the right to say what he's saying when Marines like you and how many more, have this crap as, you, I, and as Cas Said, and are coming home in body bags. I don't care if he is a fellow Marine. He's still an idiot. Hell no, I'm not for the war, but, damn, double damn, I support wholeheartedly the Marines, Women/Men, who have to go and fight it. I say to you Outlaw.....just shut him off, you got the ability to do so, on this site, "IGNORE", and let him rattle his insanity however he wants, AS HIS FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS TO ME, UNJUSTLY HONORED ON THIS SITE....BUT, NOT TO OFFEND MARINE'S WHO ARE DIEING, GETTING WOUNDED. Maybe I'm talking out both sides of my mouth here, but one way is correct, "HIS WAY IS PLAIN IGNORANT!!" I "RESPECT YOU, I'M PROUD OF YOU", as you said, "WE MARINE'S ARE MADE TO FIGHT". I just hate to see you go back, go thru more hell.....!! But I "SALUTE YOU" for your bravery, honesty, integrity, courage. NOBODY BUT A REAL TRUE HARD CORE MARINE IS WILLING TO DO THIS!! IN my "WAR" I was on my way back, and I knew I would die. But got held over with another unit on the Rock. My buddie's, some, got out of OZ early, and came to see me on the Rock, and I was so glad to see they made it. No, your Bud's, aren't the same. I enlisted with a high school good friend. He went to OZ before I did, got hit twice. I heard all sorts of stories after he got out, I stayed in, of his behavorial things. It wasn't good. Now? I seen him recently, he's an "artist", sober, doing very well. I tell you this because I want you to know how "YOU CAN BEAT IT ALL." What makes me so angry, is the fact that you have PTSD, and "THEY'RE SENDING YOU BACK?" WHAT A CROCK. Anyhow with Numbnuts, if you keep letting him get into you? He wins, you lose. No, you don't have to stay away from people.....In Time my Dear Brother Marine, and with the help of our Maker, you can make it. It's tough, it's hard to talk about things, but doing just that, here, or a therapist, or hell, write me an e-mail, let 'r rip, I will understand.....Because I'm doing the same thing. Will it go away? NO. It will get better. I too toward's the end of my tour in OZ, (nam) wanted to die, because I knew something was wrong with me. But, it wasn't meant to be. You came home, you did one hell of a "DAMN GOOD JOB MARINE." I'm proud to at least know you to some degree on this site. If there's anything I can possibly do for you? I mean it, don't give up, stay the course, fight hard, don't hold nuttin' in, let 'r rip, and the more, the better. It'll hurt like hell, but, it's healing. I have tears in my eyes right now as I'm writing this, because, when you wrote what you did.....I go back. But it's okay. And it'll be okay with you, as long as you continue to fight and win, just like you did to get back home...God Bless you Marine. I'm here, you can e-mail me, call me, and I know "OTHER MARINE'S" on this site are here for you. Never forget this. And your family will be behind you once they understand more about PTSD. I feel so sorry this happened to you. Hang tough and we're here for you. God Bless you and your's, and one big Semper-Fi to you, from one who knows. Win.

[outlaw3179]

I dont think i have ptsd lol....(my wife does lol ) ..but what Im trying to get across is that everyone can say what they want to as long as its in a respectufl manner. Just becuz I may think that someone who disagrees with me is wrong as 2 boys f*king ...doesnt necessarily mean Im correct.
Nobodys sending me back. To be honest I havent 100% decided. Ive got 2 boys who I need to think about , but I want to got back . I feel the need to go back. Thats all. Why do I get to stay here when there are Marines like Junker who have had to go back 3 times. Thats all Im saying. I have the utmost respect for most Marines and especially any Marine who served in Vietnam. You Marines served and fought when being patriotic wasnt the cool thing to do. All I know is that for me ,its my own personal decision that I have to make and I feel that going back is the right thing to do.

[redneck13]

:flag: :beer: I am as I said, very Proud to know you, and I respect your thoughts and wishes. Take it from us "OLD BIRDS", if you don't have to go back, think of what you have now, and what you might never see again. I know that "URGE" Outlaw real well. I wanted also to go back, and was, but I was so glad when I didn't have to go back because I had a great wife, and a beautiful lil' daughter, with my Son on the way. I beg of you to Please let this urge go. I know it is hard for you as it was for us OZ vet's to come home, while other's, one's we knew had to stay, some didn't make it. Just trying to be a good friend and Brother Marine. God Bless, and SF.
I dont think i have ptsd lol....(my wife does lol ) ..but what Im trying to get across is that everyone can say what they want to as long as its in a respectufl manner. Just becuz I may think that someone who disagrees with me is wrong as 2 boys f*king ...doesnt necessarily mean Im correct.
Nobodys sending me back. To be honest I havent 100% decided. Ive got 2 boys who I need to think about , but I want to got back . I feel the need to go back. Thats all. Why do I get to stay here when there are Marines like Junker who have had to go back 3 times. Thats all Im saying. I have the utmost respect for most Marines and especially any Marine who served in Vietnam. You Marines served and fought when being patriotic wasnt the cool thing to do. All I know is that for me ,its my own personal decision that I have to make and I feel that going back is the right thing to do.

[lovdog]

I'm a little confused, but I guess Noci's post was meant for me.
I got to thinking about what I said and maybe I did come across like an armchair quarterback by my remarks. And, I guess to a certain extent, if you haven't been to Iraq, maybe a guy like me doesn't have the right to voice an opinion on something that I just don't know much about what is actually going on. I listen to the news and try to get a handle on whats happening also by reading posts by those that have been there and their viewpoints on the war. But, I haven't worn the boots of an Iraq Veteran either, thats true. Like all of us fathers who have sons or daughters in the Military - we do accept that they will have to go in harms way because as Outlaw has said - "thats what they do"! My son has been to Korea and Afghanistan - and maybe Iraq in September. Do I want him to go - hell no! But that is the father in me talking - because the lives of our children are very precious to us. But, as I did, he will do his duty also - because thats what "he" does! So, this gives me the right to add my 2 cents at this site on this issue.
Wind - sorry for getting off the topic.
Outlaw - I know how you feel about going back, but as Wind has already said, think about this long and hard - especially being married with kids. We single guys always made it a point to try to keep the married guys out of harms way if at all possible. If we were zapped then it was just us (1 person) - a married guy like yourself has alot more dependant upon his staying alive. I guess its like the unwritten Marine code of honor.
If the Marines still took dinosaurs like me & Wind - we'd watch your back for you! LOL!! Wind has told me that I have PTSD too - I just tell him that I'm just F*cked Up, thats all!! Whatever you decide, I wish you well. SF

[tophor]

The Marines are getting a bad rap over this whole situation. For reasons stated by fellow Marines in this post. When you are in a fire fight you don't take time to see who is firing at you, like every Marine is trained to do, react to defend yourself and your fellow Marines then figure it out after the chaos is over. If you hesitate, you die. Just like has happened 1000's of times already in this war. The politicions sent our military over there, just like Desert Storm, started to let us do our job and then stopped us before the job was done. Now they(Washington) wants to finish up what was started in 1991, but they don't want to let the commanders on site make the decisions about combat, but rather the mindless morons in D.C. sitting behind a desk and not the battlefield where the decisions need to be made. Our fellow Marines are made to be cold blooded, mindless murders, rather than warriors of protection of which they really are. We have 17-25 year old "kids" as they are looked upon as, making life decisions everyday in the toughest situations that the average person will never see or understand in their life time, and then persicuted for trying to defend themselves and fellow Marines. I think this situation should be done and over with. Leave the Marines alone and let them do the job they were asked to do by their country.

[spike7451]

In the UK,we have had a spate of Servicemen being charged by the MoD (Ministry of Defence) for various 'crimes' while in Iraq.In the latest,two soldiers of the Irish Guards are leaving the Army in...

[marinegreen]

It is in my opinion that our politicians are using this as a tool for bringing back the draft, call me a friggen lunitic but the way I'm seeing the pic is this, we wont be leaving Iraq and AFganistan...

[lovdog]

Noci - I apologize to you sir, if that post wasn't directed at what I had to say - since you posted right after me - 30 min. apart - I assumed - well, need I say more about assumptions - when I see "red" sometimes it has a habit of consuming my mind. Not the first time that I've inserted foot into mouth! Probably won't be the last either.
This post of Wind's has probably done more to analyze just what our Marines face day after day - and the futility of it all - when you just try to do your job and then the media crucifies you for doing it. And, I imagine its hard not to not throw in the towel & say - "screw it" let the damn politicians come & fight this blasted war!! I get sick to my stomach when those panels of Congressman have the audacity to sit up there on their high horses and ask question after question to our Marines and then have the nerve to tell them how "not" to conduct a campaign!! Like they can do better!! They have hindsight! - the Marines currently in the front lines don't have this luxury!!
Our Military - and the position they have been put in, have I believe, done their best to keep civilian casualities to a minimum. I mean, how many countries would have used "surgical" bombing techniques in a war? Most would have just went in and blown the "sh*t" out of anything and everything that got it its path. And, you'll have to admit - our boys (and girls) did a fine job on the "Shock & Awe" portion. Likewise on the search (or destroy) missions - most Marines still keep their heads and try to keep civilian casualties as low as possible - depending on the severity of the mission.
Most I'm sure are under orders and told what to do - and what not to do - but not all missions are the same - and can change in a heartbeat - especially when you come under fire - and then you do what is necessary to save the lives of the men under you - and I'm sure some are decisions where you have just seconds to react!!
The trouble that most of our politicans have is - whether to classify this as a "conflict" or is it actually a "war"!! Big difference!! If this Iraq War turns into a conflict - then we have big troubles ahead. Right now - what we need is leadership from Washington - instead its "more stress" piled on!! So what has changed in 35 or so years? Politicians still want to run the Military - but will set in the grandstands watching as the battles rage - then dash to the middle of the field , stumbling over our dead after the battle is over and tell our Military that we should have run the "Flying Wedge" instead of the "Flanking Maneuver"!! Some things never change - especially if an upcoming election is on the line!! I haven't decided what exactly our Leadership in Washington is doing right now - I know its "not" leading! And, I know its "not" following"!! So, I just wish they'd just get the "hell out of the way"!!SF