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mardet65
12-18-02, 12:08 PM
Can anyone enlighten me regarding the award of the Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation during the Vietnam War? I've yet to locate any definitive information regarding what criteria was considered to determine how the award was issued. A fellow member of the VFW (Army) wearing the ribbon stated " because we received the US Army PUC, we got the RVN PUC to". Does this sound right? If you read the official criteria under the Department of Hearldry (US ARMY) the RVN PUC was issued to american troops only in the middle 1950's. What's the real scoop?
Did any US units recieve the RVN PUC during the war?:marine:

Kegler300
12-18-02, 01:31 PM
According to the Manual of Military Decorations and Awards (DoD 1348.33-M), the Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation was awarded for humanitarian assistance given during the August-September 1954 evacuation of civilians from North and Central Vietnam.

Ricko
12-18-02, 07:29 PM
I've wondered the same thing. Sparrowhawk wears one with his decorations and I was wondering if I might qualify cause he was in the same Battalion as myself during the same time period. I'll bet that he's got your answer.

Amtracs
12-19-02, 12:06 AM
From what I remember I believe Kegler300 is correct. It was issued in the 50's. In 1956 or early 1957, all members of the 1st Marine Div were authorized to wear the Navy PUC. They changed it to where you had to be with the unit in combat for the time period it was awarded.

Happy Holidays to all of you,

Dick Lavello

mardet65
12-19-02, 08:57 AM
So far, the general consensus seems to be that the RVN PUC as regulations state, was only issued during the middle 1950's. That was my contention also...but, I've seen a lot of vietnam vets wearing the ribbon (Marine & Army). Anybody out there know if the RVN PUC was awarded during the vietnam war???

Ricko
12-19-02, 09:12 AM
HONORS***

Presidential Unit Citation Streamer with One Silver and Four Bronze Stars

Solomon Islands, 18 September - 9 December 1942
Peleliu, Ngesebus, 15-29 September 1944
Okinawa 1 April - 21 June 1945

Korea, 21 September - 11 October 1950
Korea, 27 November - 11 Decenber 1950
Korea, 21 - 25 Aprirl, 16 May - 30 June, 11-25 September 1951
Vietnam
14 August 1965- 28 March 1966
1 April 1966 - 15 September 1967
16 September 1967 - 31 October 1968

JRtheSTAR
12-19-02, 10:41 AM
mardet65
I also have been trying to find out for the last couple of years. I have read in various medal magazines that it was called the Friendship Medal and awarded for a couple of weeks in 1954. Also if your unit was awarded the P.U.C. ( U.S. type ) it would also rate the Vietnam P.U.C. Some unit websites also list the same info. I asked the same question at Ribbon Check on " " and got a lot of conflicting reports. I also have seen it worn by people that in no way were old enough to have been there in 1954. Did the Marine Corps forget to enter it into the book? I don't think so. I think if we did rate it, then Gen. Krulak and Gen. Jones would be wearing it. If you find out any more please let us know, as there are many of us here would like to know.

mardet65
12-19-02, 12:29 PM
Ricko, thanks for the input... but we're trying to determine what units might rate the Republic of Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation not the american puc. I sure that's what you're refering to as you mention the battle streamer, and no streamer is included with the RVN PUC. If you can find out any info re: the RVN PUC, I'd appreciate it.

Ricko
12-19-02, 04:55 PM
http://www.usarotc.com/medals/vpuc.htm

Sparrowhawk
12-19-02, 08:17 PM
You certianly rate the PUC, I sent for a copy of my records and they updated mine to include two bronze stars?

Never told me why, I guess it had to do with the amount of gooks we killed on Sundays and holy days of obligations..LOL

I've never received the paper work on why they were awarded.


I always thought it was cause Johnson's son-in-law Charles S. Robb was with our unit and they had to give him something to wear.

LOL

Cook

mardet65
12-20-02, 09:22 AM
Ricko & Sparrowhawk:

You're muddying the waters here. Can you be more specific than just refering to the "PUC"?
We're all aware some american units were awarded the american puc in Vietnam. What I'd like is some specific information and first hand input from anyone who's unit received th Republic of Vietnam PUC during the Vietnam War!!!
I know from first hand experience that all Marines have an opinion. Come on guys let's hear them!

mardet65
12-20-02, 09:27 AM
Ricko:
Thanks for the webpage reference, for that is exactly what my question concerns. It's well documented that the RVN PUC was awarded during the 1950's only. Yet, I see many vietnam vets (Army & Marine) wearing the RVN PUC. Was this award ever actually issued to american units during the vietnam war????

JRtheSTAR
12-21-02, 08:51 AM
Have you have ever seen a big color poster of medals, like the ones some of the recruiters have hanging on their office wall? I had one that I had framed and donated to my VFW Post. It was an older one but really nice. It was printed when the Navy Commendation Medal was higher than the Purple Heart Medal. The RVN PUC is on it. Not long ago I seen a newer one and noticed that it didn't have the WW II medals on it but still had the RVN PUC. It makes me wonder why would they keep the RVN PUC and drop all the WWII medals when the RVN PUC should be an obscure award if only awarded for a couple of week in 1954. After all, how many U.S. Troops where there in 1954? Couldn't be many. And when did Vietnam become Vietnam? Wasn't it still French Indo-China? In the book American Medals and Decorations by Evans Kerrigan it states " Originally created as the Vietnam Friendship Ribbon, it was recreated as the Presidential Unit Citation in 1961, and awarded to cited units under the same conditions required for the award of the Presidential Unit Citation of the United States".

mardet65
12-21-02, 10:07 AM
Thanks JR, I'm aware of everything you stated and I think you'll agree with me that the criteria as described is ambiguous at best. What I can't understand, is that if this ribbon was awarded during the Vietnam War there must have been thousands of vetrens cited (it is a unit citation after all), you would think someone would be able to speciffically state how their unit received the award and under what conditions?
And, If as you say it was issued under the same conditions as the US PUC, why is it so difficult to get a definitive answer on this? Anyway, thanks for the input.

Amtracs
12-21-02, 12:31 PM
I guess I will go out on a limb. I am saying it(RVNPUC) was not issued to any Marine combat units in the 60's or 70's. When I was on active duty during this period I kept waiting for it to be awarded like Cival Action and Cross of Gallantry unit citations.

A lot of you "Warriors" probley rate more than you have on your DD 214's. As a lot of awards came out after you did your 2 or 3 years. You will have to check on this. A lot of SRB's were not kept up to date and some of your "Operations" were not entered. This happened to the members of my plt in 1966.

Happy Holidays to you and your Families,

Dick Lavello

mardet65
12-22-02, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Amtracs
I guess I will go out on a limb. I am saying it(RVNPUC) was not issued to any Marine combat units in the 60's or 70's. When I was on active duty during this period I kept waiting for it to be awarded like Cival Action and Cross of Gallantry unit citations.

A lot of you "Warriors" probley rate more than you have on your DD 214's. As a lot of awards came out after you did your 2 or 3 years. You will have to check on this. A lot of SRB's were not kept up to date and some of your "Operations" were not entered. This happened to the members of my plt in 1966.

Happy Holidays to you and your Families,

Dick Lavello
Thanks Amtrac!
I, like you am reluctant to say something I'm not 100% sure of. However, it looks like you might be right, otherwise we'd be jumped on by all those vets who received the RVN PUC. My personal contention is "wear your ribbons and medals proudly whenever you can! But wear only the ones you earned and wear them correctly". It galls me to see anyone loadup their chest with awards they don't deserve. Anyone who served in Vietnam in any capacity should be proud of the awards they legitimately earned. There's no need to emblish. Be honest about your exploits and awards, you'll feel better about yourself and you'll never be embarrassed by someone in the know.

daniel allen
02-14-10, 04:16 PM
That was very well stated! Many vets I know don't display the awards earned. A true Vet would be ashamed to wear an unearned award because you are spitting on the fellow Vets that truly earned these award!! Yet, I beg all fellow Vets to learn ALL awards they earned to create a profile for future generations. This helps to mold young patriots who see these medals and hear about family exploits!!

Sgt Leprechaun
02-17-10, 01:42 AM
This thread really belongs in the 'uniforms and awards' section, where I'm going to ask that it be moved to.

My research indicates thus:

(From the most current Army awards manual:

9–22. Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation
The Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation was awarded to all personnel assigned to the Military Assistance Advisory
Group, Indo-China, during August and September 1954. )

The current Marine Corps Awards manual (which I have linked on the uniform site) lists NO USMC units being awarded the RVN PUC.


Thus, if I were asked, as a professional militaria historian, collector, and researcher, if an individual 'rated' the Republic of Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation, my answer, based on my research, above, would be: "Only if they were assigned to the 'Military Assistance Advisory Group, INDOCHINA, during a very short period, 2 months, Aug-Sept, 1954".

That individual likely would have worn this Shoulder sleeve insignia, (with tab, approved for local wear only):

http://www.vetshome.com/media/Images/Picture5.gif
There is no other documentation that I can discover at this time that shows any other awards of the RVN PUC.


The name of this award is something of a misnomer, since at the time, the country was known as Indo-China. However, the flag of the country at the time was identical to the ribbon. Likely this award was something approved by the first Gov't of the newly formed country of "South Vietnam" (formed in 1955).

It's easy to see, with the large number of awards available to US Military personnel 'in country', where confusion about this particular award could result.

Lastly, in sort of an answer to someone's early mention of getting '2 bronze stars'..to clarify this, I'm thinking that these are perhaps campaign stars for the RVN campaign Medal. These stars indicate participation in certain actions during certain time periods. In my opinion, they should be called 'campaign and service' stars, rather than 'bronze stars', because MANY veterans (and their families) who are not familiar with the awards system (and it's sometimes arcane terminology) many times are confused and believe the veteran was awarded a BRONZE STAR medal, rather than CAMPAIGN STARS.

Hopefully, this clarifies the issue for everyone.

Riven37
02-17-10, 09:23 AM
The Republic of Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation was awarded by the Vietnamese government to all personnel in the Military Assistance Advisory Group, Indo-China,[1] during August and September 1954. The emblem consists of three vertical red stripes on a golden yellow background, in a gold frame.
The decoration was also awarded throughout the Vietnam War to certain units of the U.S. military deemed to have performed exceptional service to Vietnam. The Republic of Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation is considered obsolete since the bestowing authority, the government of South Vietnam, no longer exists.








Can anyone enlighten me regarding the award of the Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation during the Vietnam War? I've yet to locate any definitive information regarding what criteria was considered to determine how the award was issued. A fellow member of the VFW (Army) wearing the ribbon stated " because we received the US Army PUC, we got the RVN PUC to". Does this sound right? If you read the official criteria under the Department of Hearldry (US ARMY) the RVN PUC was issued to american troops only in the middle 1950's. What's the real scoop?
Did any US units recieve the RVN PUC during the war?:marine:

Riven37
02-17-10, 09:28 AM
2. Criteria: The Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation was awarded by the Vietnamese government to all personnel assigned to the Military Assistance Advisory Group, Indo-China during August and September 1954. No device is worn on the ribbon.

daniel allen
02-17-10, 04:34 PM
Thanks Sarge for the info. One more question. How can a person earn a star for a CAR?? This sounds redundant! I thought there was only one baptism by fire!!!

Rowdy1948
02-17-10, 05:26 PM
The 7th Marines recieved the PUC in 1967 0n Opr Foster. Semper Fi.

Sgt Leprechaun
02-19-10, 06:59 PM
PUC, yes. RVN PUC, no.

The star is worn on the CAR for successive participations in combat. For example, if you were in Gulf War 1, and earned a CAR, and then served in combat in any number of places since then (among them Afganistan, Iraq, Kosovo, Haiti, Somalia...) then you would have earned a second (or perhaps third) award.

daniel allen
02-21-10, 11:06 AM
Thanks,Sarge!!

ozawkie1ks
06-24-11, 12:12 PM
From what I remember I believe Kegler300 is correct. It was issued in the 50's. In 1956 or early 1957, all members of the 1st Marine Div were authorized to wear the Navy PUC. They changed it to where you had to be with the unit in combat for the time period it was awarded.

Happy Holidays to all of you,

Dick Lavello

I was stationed at Camp Pendleton and at Del Mar assigned to the 1st Shore Party Bn 1st MarDiv between late 56 and early 58 when Shore Party was disbanded and replaced with 1st Force Service Regt. It was during that time when we were given the PUC and told we were now auth to wear it and the unit had been given the honor as were I believe all of the 1st MarDiv.
ozawkie1ks

Riven37
06-24-11, 04:58 PM
The Republic of Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation is considered obsolete since the bestowing authority, the government of South Vietnam, no longer exists.








Can anyone enlighten me regarding the award of the Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation during the Vietnam War? I've yet to locate any definitive information regarding what criteria was considered to determine how the award was issued. A fellow member of the VFW (Army) wearing the ribbon stated " because we received the US Army PUC, we got the RVN PUC to". Does this sound right? If you read the official criteria under the Department of Hearldry (US ARMY) the RVN PUC was issued to american troops only in the middle 1950's. What's the real scoop?
Did any US units recieve the RVN PUC during the war?:marine:

Sgt Leprechaun
06-24-11, 08:00 PM
OZ, I believe you were given bum scoop. Does your DD-214 show that award?

Simply put, the only folks who actually rate the award, per the awards manual, are those who were serving in the advisory capacity in a very, very short window period from 53-54. IF any Marines were there it was an extremely small number, likely as not, less than 10 if that.

fl1946
08-28-11, 11:39 PM
I concur Amtracs. If present day Marines, i.e., Vietnam vets are wearing the RVN PUC, it is illegal. Don't push the envelope and think that you can wear it. You can't.

S/F
Frank Lee

ozawkie1ks
08-29-11, 09:53 AM
Originally Posted by Amtracs http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/images_ln/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17158#post17158)
From what I remember I believe Kegler300 is correct. It was issued in the 50's. In 1956 or early 1957, all members of the 1st Marine Div were authorized to wear the Navy PUC. They changed it to where you had to be with the unit in combat for the time period it was awarded.

Happy Holidays to all of you,

Dick Lavello[QUOTE]

I don't believe he was referring to the RVN PUC but to the Navy PUC are they not different?

fl1946
08-29-11, 10:47 AM
Yes, they are different. The Navy/Marine Corps PUC is an active ribbon today (I rec'vd one), but RVN PUC was a decoration issued to selected servicemen for very brief time in the 50's.

Riven37
08-29-11, 12:56 PM
The Republic of Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation was awarded by the Vietnamese government to all personnel in the Military Assistance Advisory Group, Indo-China,[1] during August and September 1954. The emblem consists of three vertical red stripes on a golden yellow background, in a gold frame.

The decoration was also awarded throughout the Vietnam War to certain units of the U.S. military deemed to have performed exceptional service to Vietnam. The Republic of Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation is considered obsolete since the bestowing authority, the government of South Vietnam, no longer exists








Can anyone enlighten me regarding the award of the Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation during the Vietnam War? I've yet to locate any definitive information regarding what criteria was considered to determine how the award was issued. A fellow member of the VFW (Army) wearing the ribbon stated " because we received the US Army PUC, we got the RVN PUC to". Does this sound right? If you read the official criteria under the Department of Hearldry (US ARMY) the RVN PUC was issued to american troops only in the middle 1950's. What's the real scoop?
Did any US units recieve the RVN PUC during the war?:marine:

Sgt Leprechaun
08-29-11, 07:53 PM
Riven, I'm sorry to have to make a minor correction, but your 2nd paragraph is incorrect. The RVN PUC was never again awarded after the first time to the MAAG unit. It's a very common misconception that even shows up in some 'official' type stuff, but the awards manual clearly states the only award ever given was to the MAAG. Lots of folks get it confused and TV/Movies don't help, you see just about every single actor in a 'dress' uniform from that time period (even extending into today) wearing that particular ribbon.

(The cite in Wikipedia is incorrect).

Direct from the Awards manual:

3. Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation
a. Authorization. Awarded by the President of the Republic of Vietnam, and approved by SECNAV for wear by eligible U.S. Navy personnel; no Marine Corps personnel are eligible for this award.

b. Eligibility Requirements.

Authorized for wear by personnel who served with certain units cited by the President of the Republic of Vietnam for humanitarian assistance during August and September 1954 in the evacuation of civilians from North and Central Vietnam.

ozawkie1ks
08-29-11, 10:34 PM
I was never questioning the RVN PUC. My question was in reference to the Navy PUC which was auth, apparently by some unknowing CG at the time. I think Gen S was in command of Pendleton at the time when we were advised that the 1st MarDiv was auth to wear the Navy PUC. This information came from our CO and at that time was in writing. Apparently now it is no longer in writing. I, at my age and not being in uniform, would not be wearing the ribbon anyway so there is no problem, is was only a query. The time period was sometime between 1957-58. I know I was not the only one that was duped by this and of the several hundred other Marines I observed wearing the ribbon I do not feel that I was the butt of a hoax.

Sgt Leprechaun
08-29-11, 10:42 PM
Ah, got it.

Navy/Marine PUC would only be authorized for valor in combat, nothing else. For your time period, none were awarded. Last one was during Korea....and after that, Vietnam. Sorry.

Might have been a lesser award, such as the NUC (Navy Unit Commendation).

ozawkie1ks
08-29-11, 10:52 PM
Well we rode that horse into the ground. I was given the ribbon by Top Sgt Brown and wore it until my release from active duty. Then I took it off and it is in a box collecting dust never more to see my chest so none to worry. If I transgressed in the 50's it is a little late. And the ribbon given me by First Sgt Brown is the one shown on the charts as the Navy PUC, perhaps with his 20 plus years he got it wrong also. I am going to put my horse out to pasture now I joined at 17 and am now 72 so I will let this one rest. But I thank you all for your interest and response. I have read the manual and agree with you as to the print as to what was auth and the periods it was done. Just was confused that perhaps there may have been a brief period that I did not find. Semper Fi

seachaser1950
09-30-11, 10:57 AM
I have been out now for about 37 yrs. After reading some of the threads regarding awards, my curiosity woke up. The different units I was with were awarded an NUC and MUC, but they are not on my DD214. Who do you write to for updates.

Sgt Leprechaun
09-30-11, 09:50 PM
You'll need to apply to have your DD-214 corrected, in which they'll issue you a DD-215, doing that. Somewhere in one of the threads in this section is a 'how to' on how to do just that....try searching this section, if you don't come up with anything drop me a PM and I'll see if I can find it.