Do you favor using chemical or nuclear weapons against Iraq?

[Shaffer]

If Saddam Hussein attacks U.S. military forces with chemical or biological weapons in a war that the public believes is virtually inevitable?

Semper Fi,
Jerry


Poll submitted by thedrifter.

[firstsgtmike]

NEITHER!

For a variety of reasons.

One of them being the propaganda fallout against us.

Can we condemn a tactic we have endorsed and used ourselves?

[wrbones]

The First Sergeant's got a point. Once you open that can of worms....it's Armageddon.

It would spread like wildfire. Everyone who has them would get scary and use them. Two billion people would be left after the initial onslaught. The rest would be rapidly thinned by disease, starvation and the lingering effects of the use of NBC weapons. Politics wouldn't matter. It would be a matter of survival of the fittest. If the human race were not destroyed, it would take centuries to recover.


Hard currency would be just that. Gold, silver, jewels and most of all, food, clothing and whatever domestic animals remained would be the currency of exchange. God only knows how real estate would be handled!
I'd say use small yield nukes only in self defense. If they use them first...well, you don't take a knife to a gun fight.

The use of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons should be avoided if at all possible.

[mrbsox]

My YES vote has a condition.

Can you use an agent that will only render the opponent useless for a period of time, with NO permanant harm or damage. We want to take care of buisness, not analiate a species.

And, as a side bar, when helping the country get back on it's feet, if the livestock is still there, that helps the population rebuild itself.

Terry

[Art Petersn]

No we should never use weapons of mass distruction unless this country were to be invaided.

Some how there has to be a way to get the world on the right track towards the eliminations of these weapons.

[wrbones]

Wait a minute.....I may have misunderstood someone here!


Is Nu Clear that new facial cleanser?


( Stop me before I pun again)

[eddief]

Going nuclear or chemical is overkill. We have a vastly superior
military. The civilian casualties would be so great that America
would lose it's moral high ground.

[Kissthis20]

Stay away from nuclear or chenical no need to sart somthig that will hurt and kill more civilians than neasary.

[Barndog]

What 'moral high ground' eddie? WE lost that quite some time ago.
In case you haven't noticed, the government's foreign policy for alot of years, has just about 1/2 the world hating our guts!

I'd better stop now before I go off on a rant. Especially this close to Christmas, cause I'd be going well into the new year....

And that would be just the first fvcking breath!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Art Petersn]

Barndog. I don't think we need nuclear or chenical weapons unless they are used on our troops first.
Remember in 1990 acording to the news people we would lose alot of people if we invaded. Well it did not work out that way.
I got a feeling that you will see a few different weapons again this time. Bunker busters will make it hard for anyone to hid under ground. If they let the air power do there job first I doubt that we will find much oposition when the troops go in.

Let's hope they can cut down on the friendly fire killing our troops

[Sgt Sostand]

NEITHER!!!!!
we dont need to kill them all off to make a point their no reasion for Nuclear or Chemical we dont need that to take them down

[ecomsg68]

I third that ...

When you have a pesty fly you get out the fly swatter not the nuclear bombs and the chemical agents .... why ... because of the collateral damage to the innocent!!

[NamGrunt68]

Originally posted by Barndog
What 'moral high ground' eddie? WE lost that quite some time ago.
In case you haven't noticed, the government's foreign policy for alot of years, has just about 1/2 the world hating our guts!

I'd better stop now before I go off on a rant. Especially this close to Christmas, cause I'd be going well into the new year....

And that would be just the first fvcking breath!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bro, I live about a stones throw from the Chesapeake Bay...sometimes I walk down there early in the Morning with a fresh cup of Java and look to the East out across the Atlantic. Theres nothing I'd rather do than to get up tomorrow morning and head down there and see a huge mushroom cloud rising from the east.....I don't know what gets into some Marines and Vets not understanding that we are at WAR right now with them ragheads, Saddam and many more. We need to take them out NOW..........thats just my thought on this whole mess......We do it that way and we ain't gotta worry about our bro's and bro'ettes goin over there and gettin eat up with chemical weapons !!!! I say NUKE EM !!! Thats my vote Shaffer !!

[wrbones]

Some of these folks missed the original question. If they usesd them first, do you think we should retaliate in kind?



Hypothetical question, folks. What if.....

[NamGrunt68]

Originally posted by wrbones
Some of these folks missed the original question. If they usesd them first, do you think we should retaliate in kind?



Hypothetical question, folks. What if.....

I did miss that question Bones......I think we should retaliate with the Nukes in regards to the question. But I still say we ought to strike first....my ole Pappy used to say " If ya think your gonna have to fight someone, always git in the first lick"...........

Hope ya had a great Christmas Day.....and I hope like heck you have a wonderful, and healthy new year !!!!

[wrbones]

Merry Christmas to you Dane!

Hope ya get everything ya need this coming year.

It's a tough question. Any way it goes, it gonna be bad. You know at least a couple of the big whips have thought of it. I hope they take the thought seriously.

[USMC0311]

Originally posted by NamGrunt68


I did miss that question Bones......I think we should retaliate with the Nukes in regards to the question. But I still say we ought to strike first....my ole Pappy used to say " If ya think your gonna have to fight someone, always git in the first lick"...........

Hope ya had a great Christmas Day.....and I hope like heck you have a wonderful, and healthy new year !!!!

I agree with blowing them ALL to HELL.
and Dane my Bro. I've always told my sons to do wtf I do. "If a muther says he's gonna hit ya/beat yer ass..Hit The muther till he don't talk no more.

Point is People..If yer wastin time talkin...yer gonna get a ass whippin

Semper Fi, Do or Die

[USMC-FO]

Really tough question here because it forces us to confront, I think, our own personal sence of "morality". That being said, however, I have no problem with the first strike concept or with using tactical nukes IF an enemy resorts to chemical or biological weapons first. I would not support our use of Chem/Bio since it seems to me to be far to indiscrimate and really sacrifices any claim we may have to moral superiority. Maybe I am kidding myself but I choose to believe tactical nukes, like "smart weapons" would be tremendously impressive and have a huge impact--no pun intended--on everyone; friend and foe alike. I am not interested in a scorched earth approach to war. But if someone hits you with a stick I see no problem in hitting back with a very large well placed brick. All this being said I would also like to have our Pres do a better job than I have seen so far in explaining what Saddam is such a direct menace to the US homeland. I am inclined to give "Shrub" the benefit of the doubt here but I am also uneasy given what I have heard so far. Men will die and I am not yet sold on the reason why.

Well this was pleasant ! Semper Fi and Happy Holidays !!

[NamGrunt68]

Originally posted by USMC-FO
Really tough question here because it forces us to confront, I think, our own personal sence of "morality". That being said, however, I have no problem with the first strike concept or with using tactical nukes IF an enemy resorts to chemical or biological weapons first. I would not support our use of Chem/Bio since it seems to me to be far to indiscrimate and really sacrifices any claim we may have to moral superiority. Maybe I am kidding myself but I choose to believe tactical nukes, like "smart weapons" would be tremendously impressive and have a huge impact--no pun intended--on everyone; friend and foe alike. I am not interested in a scorched earth approach to war. But if someone hits you with a stick I see no problem in hitting back with a very large well placed brick. All this being said I would also like to have our Pres do a better job than I have seen so far in explaining what Saddam is such a direct menace to the US homeland. I am inclined to give "Shrub" the benefit of the doubt here but I am also uneasy given what I have heard so far. Men will die and I am not yet sold on the reason why.

Well this was pleasant ! Semper Fi and Happy Holidays !!

Bro...I'm not typing large letters because I'm ranting....can't find my damn glasses and I can't see good here with this lousy lighting....I have CRS.....

When it comes to my family, son, and grandchildren I am a self serving selfish sonofab!tch !! All I have to think of is them and my Marine Corps Brothers and I could push that big red button in less than a NY second. Morality don't mean sh!t to me when it comes to protecting mine and my Country. Far as I'm concerned Saddam has already give us the first blow. First of all I believe that the bro's in Desert Storm have already been subjected to some Chemical weapons. Theres proof at the VAMC's around the Country. Secondly it ain't no secret that he was giving rewards to terrorist. That has been verified. Thirdly, don't make no difference to me if he really did or didn't. If he is anywhere close to being a threat the Nuke that Bastard is what I believe we should do. Might not fly with left wing limp wristed liberals or PC'd Marines, but I don't really care. Just statin how I feel.
I think we'd all be better off and would sleep better at night if we turned the entire middle east into a parking lot.
Thanks for your post though. Your a Marine and you have earned the right to your opine. Besides that your profile says your a Nammer so Welcome Home !!!

[leroy8541]

As far as chemicals and bio goes, nah no way thats nasty chit and it has no down range it kills whoever is down wind and the wind has a habit of changing when you least expect it to. and it just keeps on and on and on forever you don't want our bros bringin that chit home.
Nukes on the other hand, pull our boys back home far away and if thats what they want let them glow like night flies, kids women and all, because we all know those cute little starving kids grow up with the hatred bred into them to take daddy's place and the women will just breed and have more! Kill them all let God sort them out!!!

[greensideout]

You know, it really burns my a** when I hear marines calling for the coward's way out of a fight! "Lets just nuke em and kill all the hapless and helpless (unarmed old men, women and don't forget the kids) and we'll just hope we get the armed combatants too". And where do you stop? The "Ragheads" are not just in Iraq. Remove the lines in the sand put there by the UN and you will see that we would have to nuke about 15 countries or more. What a great idea, just blow up the otherside of the world and everything will be peaches and cream. Think again! We are in a war without a front. The enemy is stationed all over the world. I would think that marines would pick their target well and take it out instead of using a weapon of mass killing!

[USMC-FO]

Dane: No prob bro. I have always enjoyed your comments even if I don't always agree. One thing I have discovered bout you, and the things you say is that you don't know the color "gray". Black and white that's it !! That's OK too. Since you checked the bio you know I spend lots of time "pondering". Part of my soul....always wondering.

Semper Fi Marine!

[NamGrunt68]

Originally posted by USMC-FO
Dane: No prob bro. I have always enjoyed your comments even if I don't always agree. One thing I have discovered bout you, and the things you say is that you don't know the color "gray". Black and white that's it !! That's OK too. Since you checked the bio you know I spend lots of time "pondering". Part of my soul....always wondering.

Semper Fi Marine!

Found my spec's so I am back to the normal type.....thanks for the comeback bro.....I've tried Pondering and Wondering but when I do that I always end up in a rage.......maybe I need to ponder about something different !! Sounds like maybe another good New Years resolution to break !!! LOL.....Have a good un bro !!!

[firstsgtmike]

greensideout;

Your views may not be PC in this forum, but I'll stand beside you.

We may go down together, but as far as positions are concerned, I'll consider myself in good company.

Semper Fi.

[NamGrunt68]

Originally posted by leroy8541
As far as chemicals and bio goes, nah no way thats nasty chit and it has no down range it kills whoever is down wind and the wind has a habit of changing when you least expect it to. and it just keeps on and on and on forever you don't want our bros bringin that chit home.
Nukes on the other hand, pull our boys back home far away and if thats what they want let them glow like night flies, kids women and all, because we all know those cute little starving kids grow up with the hatred bred into them to take daddy's place and the women will just breed and have more! Kill them all let God sort them out!!!

Leroy, I must o missed your post last night before I found my glasses.........I think your in line fer being squad leader of a fireteamn Marine !!! Git some !!!!:D

[NamGrunt68]

Originally posted by firstsgtmike
greensideout;

Your views may not be PC in this forum, but I'll stand beside you.

We may go down together, but as far as positions are concerned, I'll consider myself in good company.

Semper Fi.

Good Mornin Top....well it is here anyway !! Don't know our time difference from the east coast to PI......I hope Santa Claus found his way to ya this year !! He brought me some dry socks and dry ammo fer my piece's !!!

Hope ya have a good New Year Top and stay healthy over there !!

[JChristin]

We have the greatest country there ever was, rival only to Rome, and we know what happend to her. We have the finest educated children there ever was. We have the highest standard of living there ever has been, in all of time, thoughout all of history. Heck, we ride in a moving vehicle not pulled by some animal. We are the first in all of history to enjoy that which we do. Why, I'll be damn, if we don't fly around in the belly of a fast moving bird to get to where we want to go these days! But most of all, as Americans, we enjoy the greated amount of freedom ever enjoyed by any citizen in any century of any country - ever. Now, compared all this to anything that has come before and haven't we accomplished a lot.

To believe that for one moment that we should allow some ruthless and stupid dictator who practices the killing of his own people to test the potentcy of his biological weapons, and to scare the rest of them into a state of submission, well, if we allow that to continue, then who are we and what the hell are we about? I'd like to hang that coward up by his nuts in some villiage square in his own country so the relatives of those he has already killed can finish the coward bastard off.

As for that other fella, what's his coward name, "Osma Bin Laden?" There would be nothing more satisfying then to see him captured and dragged out of his cave, being escourted by a group of the fewer and the prouder, a group of women Marines with the butt of their M-16 A-2's pointed right up his ass! That would be the most humiliting experience for that poor example of human excrement.

Semper fi
A Woman Marine

[firstsgtmike]

Originally posted by JChristin

To believe that for one moment that we should allow some ruthless and stupid dictator who practices the killing of his own people to test the potentcy of his biological weapons, and to scare the rest of them into a state of submission, well, if we allow that to continue, then who are we and what the hell are we about?


I agree wholeheartedly.

It's important to know your enemy, and the best method to take them out.

NBC warfare? The Russians just tried it. They killed 127 innocent hostages and 41 of the bad guys. Of course, they could have saved time and just nuked the place!

Historically, in warfare, the issue that causes the most resentment and calls for revenge is NOT the death of combatants, but retaliation for the attrocities and the slaughter of innocents.


DANE:

I missed your Chrstmas post and New Years wishes. The same backatcha for you and yours.

I think I'm 12 hours ahead of you guys on the east coast.

Occasionally, in a post I throw in a teaser about the cost of living here. But check this out:

We financed a Christmas Party for 30 barrio children. Food, drink, games, prizes, and a Christmas present for each one.

Total cost? $20.00. (It doesn't take much to be a hero here.)

Semper Fi to all, and may the coming year be better than the last, but not as good as the following one. (We all need SOMETHING to look forward to.)

[NamGrunt68]

Originally posted by firstsgtmike


I agree wholeheartedly.

It's important to know your enemy, and the best method to take them out.

NBC warfare? The Russians just tried it. They killed 127 innocent hostages and 41 of the bad guys. Of course, they could have saved time and just nuked the place!

Historically, in warfare, the issue that causes the most resentment and calls for revenge is NOT the death of combatants, but retaliation for the attrocities and the slaughter of innocents.


DANE:

I missed your Chrstmas post and New Years wishes. The same backatcha for you and yours.

I think I'm 12 hours ahead of you guys on the east coast.

Occasionally, in a post I throw in a teaser about the cost of living here. But check this out:

We financed a Christmas Party for 30 barrio children. Food, drink, games, prizes, and a Christmas present for each one.

Total cost? $20.00. (It doesn't take much to be a hero here.)

Semper Fi to all, and may the coming year be better than the last, but not as good as the following one. (We all need SOMETHING to look forward to.)

I'll take one case o Jameson's and two cases of Bombay Gin....
Where do I mail the $5.00 ??? :D

[firstsgtmike]

Dane,

I buy a 24 pint case of Ginebra Gin for $10.000. It's good stuff, straight or mixed.

I had promised a guy a case of Red Horse Beer. The beer cost $4.00. I was shocked to find out that the shipping cost was $70.00. I would have bitten the bullet and kept my promise.

However, when I took the package down to the shipping office they refused it. No liquor and no cigarettes or cigars.

That got me off the hook, but it also means that you're SOL too.

Mike

[NamGrunt68]

Story of my life Mike......SOL.........and here I am stuck in a "barrio" county with no gin................I feel another song coming on.............

[mareyes0811]

I was with the 11th Marines (A 1/11) in Kuwait in '91. Our chemical detection kits popped positive numerous times in the Al Burgan Oilfields. I've had a beet-red forearm since '91. This is somewhat unusual since I'm a Hispanic from West Texas...Contrary to the Defense Department's report of the 11th Marines inferred "incompetence" in using the equipment, we used the equipment exactly the way we were trained as well as how we read the directions...

I believe we've already experienced an attack...I'm in favor of turning Iraq into glass!

[firstsgtmike]

"I believe we've already experienced an attack...I'm in favor of turning Iraq into glass!"

Can we get the civilians out first?

[mareyes0811]

"Can we get the civilians out first?"

I'm all for following the Law of Land Warfare with regards to civilians.

[NamGrunt68]

Originally posted by mareyes0811
I was with the 11th Marines (A 1/11) in Kuwait in '91. Our chemical detection kits popped positive numerous times in the Al Burgan Oilfields. I've had a beet-red forearm since '91. This is somewhat unusual since I'm a Hispanic from West Texas...Contrary to the Defense Department's report of the 11th Marines inferred "incompetence" in using the equipment, we used the equipment exactly the way we were trained as well as how we read the directions...

I believe we've already experienced an attack...I'm in favor of turning Iraq into glass!

God Bless you bro's that done your job over there in the Gulf Marine....I've run across some Marines that are fubared big time from the chemicals that Saddam used over there......you bro's are gettin screwed big time by the VA and the government just like a bunch of us Nammers............as the ole sayin goes......"It Doan Mean Nuttin".......Semper Fi Marine !!

[leroy8541]

I'm with 0811, i was with the 8th marines in kuwait in 91' the gas alarms were going off constantly we were in and out of mopp4. and we were never properly detoxed or whatever you call it we just took the suits off put them in the pack and marched forward as we were ordered they were "false alarms". five years later alot of us that were together started falling apart now when a cloud comes up we all fall over like we were 90 years old, I am the oldest at 36 years old! They say there was nothing, We say that Saddam opened that can of worms! If you take the civilians out and bomb the military after they are gone they will become the military so i say leave them there and burn them all!!
Better than that I say send in the marines full throttle let them do what they are trained to do with no diplomatic boundries and unleash the biggest blitzkrieg the world has ever seen then maybe some of these other sneaky little bastard countries and organizations will realize thier place in the pecking order and shut the f*** up and leave us alone!!

thats my two cents worth

[Barrio_rat]

I hate to sound like the voice of caution here... No really. This is absolutely a tough call to make and I don’t envy the president in the least. They did open up the can of worms. As stated earlier, they’ve used the chemical (and probably biological) weapons on us as well as well as on their own people. Probably even against Iran and Israel - who knows who else. Saddam is actively seeking nuke capabilities. If he attains it he will, without a doubt, use it. Perhaps against our troops in the area, Kuwait, Israel or any number of others. Could be, he’d help a terrorist organization use it against us here on the mainland. If there had been honesty used when we first went against him, we wouldn’t be in this mess now. But that’s the politics of war. If it was disclosed that Iraq had used chemical or biological weapons against our troops in 91, we would have been allowed (and perhaps required) to go all the way to Bagdad and take Saddam out. At the time, for what was known - generally - we did it right and we did it well. Hind sight is always 20/20, though I wish that politics could stay out of it and let the warriors do what they’re paid for.

I see, that if we open up on Iraq with NBC weapons, once again we will be the ‘bad guys’ of the world beating up on some 3rd rate country for our own personal gain - not that I care so greatly what the world thinks of the USA, just that for long term relations with other governments does need to be considered. Going after Saddam conventionally, as in urban warfare, will most likely be very costly on our fighting men.

I’m sure this has been thought of by those in power within the White House and the Pentagon - it may be viable or it may be a total waste of time to try... I don’t claim to know all the particulars. I was thinking that a blockade on Bagdad may provide just the pressure needed without sacrificing our own troops and with minimal civilian casualties. This would be a total blockade, one where we basically surround Bagdad cutting off all electricity, water, food and any transportation to and from the city. Anyone who comes out with a weapon (of any kind) becomes a target of opportunity and will be dealt with accordingly. Our government or the military can give the warning that if any NBC material is used or detected, we may and most probably will retaliate in kind. Though I agree with what others have stated, using chemical and biological weapons do more long term harm and may even harm our own personnel. A small nuke, placed in the center of the city can take care of many problems in a short time.

The part I don’t like about any of this, is that we are allowing them to hit us with life debilitating illnesses before stopping them permanently. If we don’t, we will forever be the bad guys. The choices are not easy. Go in early with nukes and just take care of it and be done with it. Go conventional and hope that they don’t use any NBC weapons on us and if they do, we use ours as well, hurting mostly civilians and possibly even our own troops in the process.

With all this, and I don’t mean to sound too callus, is the issue of the civilian. I understand trying to keep civilian casualties to a minimum is a good PR move with current politics. However, taking out the civilians has been a long time way of taking the fight out of an enemy army. The Germans used it against England and Russia. The Japanese used it against nearly all of Asia. As well, the Japanese used it against the United States, though on a limited basis. We used it against the Japanese and the Germans. It was done during Vietnam and again during Desert Storm. I’m not staying to actively target civilians but I also don’t really worry about it if civilians are in a targeted area. Saddam made the civilians targets when he put weapons building plants next to schools and such.

I have heard a prediction about the probably upcoming war with Iraq. That it will be faster and more devastating than Desert Storm. This is tough to believe, but it may be true. That we will hit them so hard and take out so much so quickly, that the only one willing to fight (and unable to) will be Saddam himself. It would be nice if it could be done this way.

So, do we use NBC or not? Well, no. If we do, it opens a can of worms that allows many countries to use the same for their own reasons. So far, no one has used nukes since we did against Japan - and with good reason! While the devastation is more controlled and localized with nukes than with chemical or biological weapons, they still have a lasting effect. So I would have to say no to all three. Only as a last resort and only if prompted by actions of the enemy should they be used. And it sucks that it should be that way.

[Sgt Sostand]

their no need 2

[Joe Gore]

I still havent figured out why we did not keep going the first time we were over. In my unit the Morale was very hig. I can still remember getting re supplied and re loading when the cease fire came down. It was like a kick in the chest for a grunt that was primed and ready to go get some more. Everyone in my unit had the same unit. I don't think we should use either. We have the best fighters, equipment and technology in the world. Next time we need to just finish what we started.