Gung-ho, until You KILL

[redneck13]

:iwo: :flag: :!: I was 18yrs old when I went into a "warzone." I was so gung-ho, I wasn't afraid, scared, to a great amount. Then the reality set in. I had to meet face to face my enemy. What was I suppose to do? Of course, "KILL 'EM ALL!" I can tell you it isn't all that great when you have to take another life. Reality sets in. "THAT WAS ANOTHER HUMAN BEING!!" I post this in hopes that it might help a young Marine who is going to go into combat. You react as trained. Then you puke, shake, and for some it got easier to kill again. Some even got the "killer bug!!" They loved it. I want to tell all young Marines, their families, that what you're about to encounter won't be a standing black bullseye, it'll be a human being. Don't hesitate, you have to do your job. It's either you or them. Just be aware of what will happen afterwards. And believe me, you'll never ever forget it. No matter what. I wish all young Marines who are about to enter what they think might be "their" time to really prove themselves, to be aware, as their families also, what to expect. SF, God Bless, and please come home. Now carry on Maggot's.

[jennifer]

lorix needs to read this...
I can tell you it isn't all that great when you have to take another life. Reality sets in. "THAT WAS ANOTHER HUMAN BEING!!"

[outlaw3179]

I cant remember who it is but they have the signature " its fun to kill some people".....I agree with that .

[jennifer]

lol... i think itll be different if a female came upon that situation... for example, for LORIX... :P

[hrscowboy]

Wind in face i agree with you on everything, I wonder whats going to go through there minds when they have to shoot a child alot younger than they are thats shooting at them, and remembering they have a little brother or sister back at home the same age. Been there and done that and even today its one nightmare that never goes away..

[RLeon]

I cant remember who it is but they have the signature " its fun to kill some people".....I agree with that .
That was me...got it from a Marine General who was slammed by the Media for saying it during a speech. Of course it was taken out of context. No one said you have to enjoy killing...but DO NOT feel sorry for doing so...it's either you or him, your Marine bretheren or him.
Gunny Hathcock used to say about his kills that he was just saving Marines lives.

[redneck13]

That was me...got it from a Marine General who was slammed by the Media for saying it during a speech. Of course it was taken out of context. No one said you have to enjoy killing...but DO NOT feel sorry for doing so...it's either you or him, your Marine bretheren or him.
Gunny Hathcock used to say about his kills that he was just saving Marines lives.:evilgrin: :flag: It's easy to sit and talk about "killing", when a person hasn't had to do it. When/where were you in Combat?
Until you actually have been there and done it? I don't think you'd be posting this "gung-ho" stuff as you said!
But I respect your "opinion".SF Now carry on Maggot's.

[redneck13]

lol... i think itll be different if a female came upon that situation... for example, for LORIX... :P :flag: :iwo: Jennifer? Explain more about this, as I'm interested in if any Woman Marine had to be in the situation, to take another's life, would you? SF

[RLeon]

:evilgrin: :flag: It's easy to sit and talk about "killing", when a person hasn't had to do it. When/where were you in Combat?
Until you actually have been there and done it? I don't think you'd be posting this "gung-ho" stuff as you said!
But I respect your "opinion".SF Now carry on Maggot's.
Your right, it is easy to talk all this "Gung-Ho" stuff when I haven't had to shoot someone. No I have never been to combat, but I do realize that war is killing other human beings and not some romantisized adventure.
I just put things into perspective, it's either them or me. That's not gung ho, that reality.
Don't hesitate, you have to do your job. It's either you or them.
:thumbup:

Just be aware of what will happen afterwards. And believe me, you'll never ever forget it. No matter what.
Read you LC wind,nface. Semper Fi and God bless.

[outlaw3179]

Whatever......I just know this....Ive shot a couple rounds before...and Im home ....so fuk insurgents...Im home ..and thats what matters...do I feel bad....not in the least bit............................................... my boys are going to grow up with a daddy ...and thats what matters to me.

[outlaw3179]

Fuk Insurgents

[lovdog]

Wind:
I appreciate your take on this issue because you have been there & done that & sometimes that makes a greater impression on the ones that are just leaving the States to do their duty. And, when it comes to killing - it doesn't matter whether you use a knife, rifle or a bomb - its still taking a life. The closer you get to the killing - the more it affects your mind, some can deal with it and others can't. When you look at "our" war - more have comitted suicide than were actually killed in the war - those were the ones that couldn't deal with what they had gone through. Even our CO, one of the best pilot's and one of the finest men that I have ever known, dropped on our own Marines twice within a month's time - bad co-ordinates from the ground. After that he stopped flying because the guilt got the better of him. And, how do you ever stop blaming yourself for friendly fire accidents? Its not always just shoot the bad guy & thats it!! Or, how about your friend that was a couple of steps behind you during the rocket barrage - he died & you were just a little bit luckier that day - he left a wife and child behind??
Sure, some guys I admit, it probably wouldn't bother - but they were few and far between.
Some guys just don't get the concept of war - you kill not for the sake of killing, but you kill to "stop" the killing and end the hostilities - to achieve peace!! Thats the ultimate goal I believe. And thats why God made Marines!!
If I got a little off the subject, I apologize. I'm shut up now & let someone else have the floor. Good post Wind.SF

[Camper51]

You both speak wise words. Those who have not done it cannot appreciate what it does , and those who have done it don't really talk about it, because no matter what you think or say, killing another human does affect you. Some are affected more than others but ALL are affected!

[redneck13]

:iwo: :flag: :!: Sometimes when a person who has done what needs to be done in "War", it can be unbearable.....I watched some stories of WWII warrior's, Marines, and how long has that war been over? They still have tears in their eyes when they re-live, when they've been interviewed. I know first hand this is true. When I went thru the combat rehab in N. Little Rock, there were two WWII Vet's. ONe Army, one Marine, one in Europe, one in the Pacific. They were ready to do themselves in, till we all helped them.....There were more Marines there at the time than any other branch, and most were Nam Vet's.
I really appreciate the "good" "real" comments. It is true there are only certain times when a person who has done this, will comment about it. I felt compelled to post this so that the New Marine warrior's would get some idea of what to expect. You're right Lovdog, there's been so many who have done themselves in....I know of about 15 that I have encountered since coming back. I deal with at by a "power" much stronger than me. There are so months, days, that I recall, and when that time comes? I have a difficult time. I'm lucky, I have found survivor skills, coping skill's, that have allowed me to get through it. There are times yet to this day, that sometimes I get to thinking I can't handle it, and suicide does enter my mind. Then my "HIGHER POWER"----GOD---intervenes, and keeps me going. SF

[FistFu68]

:usmc: NOBODY EVER ASKED WHAT GOOD I DID,JUST HOW MANY PEOPLE DID YOU KILL MARINE! :usmc: RVN.1968~RIFLEMAN~I CO.3/26 USMC :usmc:

[redneck13]

:flag: Ain't doubting what you say, but I was never asked anything. Only spit on, called a "baby killer", "murderer", "war-lover"......It wasn't until later in my life was I ever asked, (it wasn't by some civilian, but by professional's trying to help me) how many?, how often?, did you see any "bloodshed", or other traumatic events.....I'm sorry this happened to you....Keep the Faith, SF

[montana]

funny....nobody wanted to hear diddly bout any of it....now every one want in on it...was asked just this spring if the civilians could give me a welcome home. told them thanks but your 36 years to late and i dont want nothin from you... thanks wind...i was one that killed quite a few....but because of spelling and lack of ability to say what i think-feel...ill leave it up to you who are better at it

mine was not to reason why...mine was to do or die...sempers

[redneck13]

:flag: :beer: Montanna? I'm lucky, I got two welcome home celebration's, so to speak...Once, when I was with a group called the "LAST PATROL" out of Milford Tx. We gathered by the 100's, even had S. Vietnamese Plt., who marched with us. From the River Bottom just below the Big Golf Ball Resturant, you might have seen on the boob tube.....We stayed the night with a camp fire burning, "big", which was for a "light" to guide the POW/MIA home. We sang, drank, toasted a few, had some good chow. Then the next morning we marched downtown Dallas going to this Park, where the New Vietnam Veteran's Memorial was being Dedicated like a grand opening, By GB Sr. During the March people started coming out of nowhere, and started clapping, yelling, "YEAH", and "THANK YOU." It still sends chills up my spine.
Then, being part Native American, at Pow-Wow's, there's always during the ceremonies, the Veteran Dance.....People found out I was a "NAM" Vet, and they surrounded me, and it made me cry. So many "welcome home", "thank you's", so.....just my suggestion for you, take them up on it....Even if it's all these yr's later? It's their way of making up for other's mistakes, and degrading feelings at the time when you came back. You'll feel very special believe me. I hope you would re-consider, and expect a lot of emotions to fly. God Bless you my friend, and from me to you....."ONE BIG WELCOME HOME BROTHER", keep on keeping on, K? And one "BIG SEMPER-FI" to you. I'll toast with you anytime. If you ever want to just talk?, you can e-mail pbail57@aol.com any dat blame time you want. If we don't help each other, nobody else will, you can bet on that. "HOLD YOUR HEAD HIGH"....

[Camper51]

The only people who never forgot their warriors, and ALWAYS welcomed them home with ceremony, were the Native Americans. I am thankful to my ancestors even though I only have a little Arapahoe or Ute blood. EVERY Powow that I have ever attended has given thanks to all warriors, especially to those who were so scorned from the Vietnam era. Never have I been so proud to have worn the Marine uniform as when I wear my Marine Corps utility cover or a Marine hat to one of these events and anyone who was a warrior acknowledges me and acknowledges anyone else who was a warrior that they see.

[FistFu68]

:usmc: THE QUESTION WAS ASKED! THE RESPONCE THEY GOT WASN'T WHAT THEY WERE EXPECTING! WHEN I LEFT THEM THEY WERE EATING,HUMBLE PIE.SILENCE IS GOLDEN!I'M NOT THE BIGGEST MAN IN THE WORLD<BUT NO 1, I REPEAT,NO 1,HAS EVER SPAT ONE ME AND GOT AWAY WITH IT! AND I'VE BEEN ON SUM' MEAN STEET'S.I DO NOT GET MAD,I GET EVEN. SEMPER~PIE~THERE'S ENOUGH 4 ALL OF (US)MC! FISTFU~SPIRIT~BROTHER~I/3/26 OORAH 10/4 (LONG LIVE FORCE) :usmc:

[redneck13]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]:flag: :banana: :iwo: I'm getting ready to leave next week for a place up north to a place where every Memorial Day week-end there'll be 300-500 people, it's called Teoshapay, or correct Lakota spelling, Tiyospaye, "TEE-OOSH-A-PAY"....which mean's, "A GATHERING OF FAMILY AND FRIENDS." I missed it last year....They even consider me an "Elder" and when we have the Veteran dance, it's so special. I help this dear, dear friend, who's 79 with 30% of his heart working, do a lil' dance. Then we go to the prayer wheel. Smudge, then enter, pass the pipe, and send our prayer's to Heaven to the Grandfather.
This is a peace I wish every Veteran could experience...and you don't have to have one once of Native Blood, as today the Native American's, enjoy our helping them. I'm part Cherokee-Shawnee, and there's never a harsh word, fights, because everybody is there to enjoy each other. It's too bad the White Man didn't learn more from our brother's Native American's. It's like the Marine Corps Windtalker's, mostly Navajo I believe, what an honor they should receive each yr. Memorial day......I pray and wish all Vet's but especially "War" Vet's, Marines, will find their way thru the maze of their emotions, and come out, and face some of the demon's, and find peace......Thanks Camper, and SF to you my Native Brother, Marine Brother, and let all our younger Warrior's, take heed to what we can provide them here on this wonderful site, and maybe we can help them some. God be with you./COLOR]

[redneck13]

:flag: :!: :evilgrin: I know where you're coming from, I too was raised where I had not better not take any crap from anyone.....This situation was different.....We had to get a police escort just to get thru that bunch of no count Sumbeeches!!! It weren't my choice.....I was ready to put somethin' on 'em they couldn't wash off, if ya know what I mean.....But, I wanted to just get the hell out of there, and I still have the memory of one of them, faces, who spat at us, on us, so if that person ever came into my view again, things might just be a bit different, if a Marine hasn't already set that person straight. This is what can be expected by some who are protestor's to our troops. They will have the memories, flashing of the one they fell, or more than one, and they did it because their country asked them too. And then they wonder..."WTF" is wrong with these people? If I only had my weapon.....But, the fact that they remember.....the "KILL", they will not want to respond to the insidious act, just leave me alone.....Good reply my friend. SF

[FistFu68]

:usmc: HELL MY FAMILY CLAN,HILLBILLY HIGHLANDER'S REALLY DO IT UP BIG,BAGPIPE'S UP THE YAZOO!!!IT'S A HIGHLANDER WARRIOR BROTHER~HOOD! BRAVEHEART HONKY TRIBUTE! MARINE'S GOING ALL WAY BACK TO VIKING'S/AND I AIN'T TALKIN' MINNESOTA! SPIRIT~BROTHERS 10/4 :usmc:

[redneck13]

:flag: :banana: :D Meaning no disrespect Fitsu.....but you and I both have got off the main subject matter just a hair :-)....I respect your reply.....I too come from "Hillbilly" "Redneck" "CountryFied" people......But we have to try and maintane the integrity of the subject matter, that is....Being trained to be gung-ho, until that first time you have to take a life in "Combat." Again, I mean no disrespect to you, and I know some of what you're saying will help those who might experience some of these "IDIOT'S" who will be at airports etc., calling you names, etc.
I want to keep it where we talk about what it's like to have to take a life in combat......I know for some it easy topic talk about, but, we don't have to go into vivid detail's, just thoughts feelings afterwards, Okay? Lot's or respect to you, SF KEEP ON KEEPING ON. Some gave it all, some fell, FOR THE RED WHITE AND BLUE, AND SOME GAVE IT ALL, AND SOME FALL.

[FistFu68]

:usmc: AT THE TIME IT'S WHERE THE DICE OF MIND & BODY ARE THROWN/ IF YOU SURVIVE,COMBAT,AND HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE **** AGAIN,KNOWING WHAT CAN & DOES GO DOWN.TAKES IT'S TOLL,I KNOW IT DID ME. BUT I'D PROBABLY DO IT AGAIN IN A HEARTBEAT~COULDN'T LET MY MARINE'S DOWN! GOD~SPEED 10/10/ 20/20 (LONG LIVE FORCE) :usmc:

[PatrioticBird]

I agree with that. Some do get the killer bug. Just what every marine has trained for is what you will be called to do there in a combat zone. Its not about the ribbons or medals, its about the honor you have after knowing what you did, helped families just like you and me. Rely on your training, and your equiptment. Check out usmc.mil A devil dog took a round right in the kevlar helmet and just had a little scratch. Your equiptment (no matter how uncomfortable and hot it gets) will reduce damage if worn correctly. Go do your job and come home safe!! SEMPER FI

[SurferDave]

My two sons asked me. I asked my father the same question about the Philipines in wwii. I guess, because my sons were so young when they asked, I said NO. You know, I even practiced over the years what to say; I never have finished that thought stream. Too many memories come back. I think Wind’nface has it right. Not just killing, but witnessing death changes a person. Funny thing, mine was in the Philipines as well.

What to say… well, what you have to say.

I remember my father’s explanation. “Men react to combat differently. (pause) some cower, some react, some experience exhilaration, some mess their trousers, some even react with arousal.” I never asked him which he was. Somehow the reality of it all struck me even then.

For me personally, it took years to even begin to deal with that reality. Baby steps, my Higher Power, some very close friendships and yes a good dose of therapy. I still have nightmares from time to time. Faces in my mind… Most of the time, all is well.

I believe fervently, that this is why no Marine or Soldier for that matter ever truly wants to go to war. And for those who have, it is intensely personal. One of my favorite quotes is, “War is prolonged periods of tedium, accentuated by brief moments of extreme terror.” I find we are those who respect deeply the effects of it.

For those preparing to face it, please remember, you do not go through it totally alone. When it bothers you, please, please seek help. A good friend helps to lessen the weight of it all.
Sincerely, Dave:flag: