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bobman
04-20-06, 09:34 PM
I was reading the book Spare Parts by Buzz Williams and in it he asked the recruiter if being a reserve Marine was being a real Marine and it says that the Staff Sergeant "hesitated" before saying that anyone who graduates from Parris Island is a real Marine. Why does he hesitate? I didn't understand this part and I am confused as to why reservists are seen by some as lower than their active duty counterparts. I know that they don't train as often, but how could one say that a reserve Marine isn't a real Marine? I am also looking for any information anyone has on the 25th Marine Regiment. The websites I find aren't that informative and their main site has a history section with about 1 paragraph of information. I know there has to be more about this unit out there, so if anyone could help I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

LivinSoFree
04-21-06, 12:28 AM
Reserve Marines comprise most of the first units sent into a conflict, in order to avoid disrupting active duty units already in operation in garrison.
Reserve Marines go to war with less gear, less time to work up, and with an entire civilian life to put on hold.
Reserve Marines balance not only their civilian lives, but the Marine Corps as well, which doesn't just mean "One weekend a month, two weeks a year," it means MCIs, PT, collateral duties as NCOs/SNCOs/Officers/Section Heads, etc.
Reserve Marines learn their jobs, then afterwards, return to civilian life but for a small fraction of the year- until it's time to go to war, then magically, they manage to drop into a warzone and manage to integrate right in with active duty units without missing a beat.
Reserve Marines carry the values of our Corps out into the civilian world, and show people on a daily basis the value and benefit of the United States Marine Corps as it directly relates to them.
It is the reservist that will carry your casket, play taps, and fire your volleys at your funeral.
It is the reservist who will often notify your family, if you are to make the ultimate sacrifice.
It is the reservist who will support your family while you are deployed, even if you've never come within a hundred miles of that reserve unit, because you are a Marine.

There is no more "R" on the end of "USMC" on dog tags, and there is no distinction made on your ID card.

A Marine is a Marine, through and through, and that's all there is to say.

Cole11
04-21-06, 03:32 AM
well put bro, ill say this much, i didnt go to MCR-RD i went to MCRD, and when i graduated my Senior didnt say Congratulations Reservist, he said Congradulations Marine.

jinelson
04-21-06, 04:40 AM
Nicely said Meyer well said indeed!

outlaw3179
04-21-06, 08:02 AM
Livin so Free....Out******standing Devildog! 100% correct.

bobman
04-22-06, 04:40 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. Now if anyone has any information on the 25th Marine Regiment's history or anything if you could please share it I'd appreciate it. :D

yellowwing
04-22-06, 08:09 PM
Ask my little buddy Google about the "25th Marine Regiment" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=%2225th+Marine+Regiment%22&spell=1).

Shaffer
04-22-06, 11:14 PM
Reserve Marines comprise most of the first units sent into a conflict

LivingSoFree you are completely mistaken. That is not true at all. They comprise almost ZERO of the units sent in first.

Reservists are viewed differently by active duty Marines. Often treated like the red-headed step child. For some very good reasons. All though it does not pertain to all Reserve Marines, it does reflect the majority.

If you are a reservist and have no idea what I am talking about, then you haven't been talking with active duty Marines.

Jerry

LivinSoFree
04-23-06, 05:48 PM
Shaffer- to address a couple points.

First of all- we do comprise a major component of what's sent in first, especially in non-infantry roles, such as Comm, Motor T, etc. My unit was sitting in Kuwait before the invasion started and rolled in with the rest of them. Even reserve Recon units were involved (read 'Generation Kill' by Evan Wright).

Secondly- I'm fully aware of the bullsh*t attitude that active duty gives to reservists just because they're reservists. This is about the DUMBEST thing I've ever witnessed in the Marine Corps. Why the HELL would you want to alienate Marines that may be an asset to your unit before you've even seen them perform? If you want to make an assessment of individual Marines, GO AHEAD, BUT DO IT ON THE BASIS OF THEIR PERFORMANCE, NOT YOUR OWN PREJUDICE. I can point to plenty of cases when reservists have performed just fine, and in some cases outshined Active Duty who think they've got it made and can let "those damn weekend warriors" do the work. Hell, when we went to MCT, every Marine on the meritorious board was a reservist, and my weekend warrior ass was the honor grad. Not a boast, just an illustration. Almost every Marine in my unit's been to the sandbox for AT LEAST one hitch, if not 2 or 3. There're plenty of Active Duty that've managed to avoid deployment entirely.

Reserve Marines are generally older, many have college degrees, and bring a lot of experience and COMMON SENSE to the battlefield. The Marines I work with on a regular basis are consummate professionals- even if they don't want to be in anymore, they keep their **** on lock like everyone else. Sure, there's always "the ten percent," but show me an active duty unit that doesn't have the same thing.

I'm a reservist because it's the first step what with any luck will be a long career, and the experience I've gained has already proven invaluable, and will continue to be useful once I'm active duty, be it officer or enlisted side. It's a great way for future Lieutenants to get an experience base while in college and earning their commission. Reservists are deploying left and right to fill holes so that we can send Active Duty home for some well-deserved stateside time.

People can talk all the sh*t they want about reservists, but we bleed green just like any other Marine, and believe me, when it's your turn to rotate back to the states, or your platoon comes up short, you want us there.

Shaffer
04-23-06, 06:20 PM
LivingSoFree I think you just corrected yourself. If you go back and read Bobman's post, he is asking if and why reserves are looked at different. The answer to the question is "YES".

Your answer about the reserves being the first sent into a conflict...you may want to go back and read that back. The reserves are NEVER the first to be sent into ANYTHING. Being sent into a war and being sent in first are 2 different things. There are ALWAYS active duty Marines in the AO before reservists ever step foot on the soil.

Again there is a reason why the active duty Marines have this "BS attitude" you speak of. I would suggest finding out exactly why instead of putting your head in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist.

Regardless of whether a Marine is active or reserves I wish them the best. I am just providing the facts without any sugar coating.

To any potential Marines debating whether or not to go active duty or reserves. Unless you are planning on gaining a commission as an officer I would highly recommend going active duty.

Jerry

LivinSoFree
04-23-06, 06:25 PM
OK- I can see where the comm got garbled. Yes, there is an attitude like that that exists amongst some active duty. However, you'll find that most times, if you get into an AO and prove yourself, that tends to disappear.

And I'd argue that the reason active duty has such an attitude is not solely performance based. I know plenty of Marines straight out of boot camp who wanted to talk trash to us reservists at MCT who'd been in for 1 1/2, 2, 3 years, just because they thought that active duty made them "hard." A Marine makes himself based on what he does, his contract doesn't have anything to do with it.

AvalonLanding
04-23-06, 08:03 PM
Battery M, 3/14 (formally 4/14) fired more rounds in Falluja during the siege than any US battery since Vietnam. The Artillery was so accurate and fast that Mike battery was known to Marines and Soldiers in Falluja as the "Sniper Battery."(check it out in No True Glory) It was also known as having the fastest guns in the Marines Corps during OIF II. You may remember reading about it on USMC.mil.

It may suprise some to know that Mike Battery is a reserve unit. Pretty good for a battery that only goes to the field 7 times a year.

awb5711
04-24-06, 12:00 PM
I'm going to go ahead as an Active Duty Marine and stir this fire a little bit. Getting through Boot Camp is one of the easiest parts of a Marines career. The Fleet is an entirely different story and unless you have served in the Fleet you cannot understand what the daily life of an Active Duty Marine is like. Zero-Dark Thirty formations on a daily basis, as well as the pre-chow formation and the end of the day formation. Chinese Field Day on a Fri night or Sat morning because you had Ice in your freezer??? Standing Duty on the Christmas 96. Cleaning the Barracks not because they are dirty but because its Thursday. Filling out 10 different forms to go see your folks for the weekend and sitting through the same Safety Brief every few weeks. And the list goes on and on. I'm sure many of the other Active and former Active Duty Marines here could add pages to this list. And we are not complaining about it. To us that is just part of our job. Reservists go to war and then go home. They do a fantastic job while they are there. We definitley need reservists. They are no less a Marine than an Active Duty one. But we do this job every day...and our day does not end at 1630. So before you go complaining about Active Duty attitudes you need to walk a mile in our shoes and you will understand why we have that attitude.

Shaffer
04-24-06, 01:38 PM
Common sense should explain the difference. The more time you spend doing something, the better you will be. Lets transfer it over to real-world situations. Lets take football for example. If a football player practices and plays year round, will he better than a football player who practices and plays 30 days out of the year?

Practice always makes perfect no matter who you are. Being around Marines and living the life as a Marine 24 hours a day makes you a completely different person than when you are around Marines and living the life of a Marine 24 hours per month. Reservists live with civilians which means they think act and behave like civilians.

For any resevist that may question this, allow me to paint a picture so that you can see through the eyes of an active duty Marine...

Think back to when you went through bootcamp. Do you remember entering the chow during 3rd phase? Remember seeing those platoons in first phase and thinking how "unsat" they were. Remember how hard you looked and how you looked down at those platoons?

That is exactly what an active duty Marines sees when he looks at MOST reservists.

Again if you are squared away, hard-charging, hair is regulation, uniform is regulation, body fat ISN'T pushing the standards, etc., etc., etc. then you are one of the few. Unfortunately you are not the majority.

Now that doesn't mean they are not a Marine. They went through bootcamp and EARNED the title like everyone else. They should be proud. It only means they are not as squared away as their active duty counterparts.

Semper Fi,
Jerry

junker316
04-24-06, 02:30 PM
Let me defend Shaffer, this will be a first. LivingSoFree there is a difference. I am an Active duty Marine. The main word here is ACTIVE. Not reserve or national guard. My life resolves 24/7 around the USMC not just on a week-end a month and two weeks in Summer. My " civilian life " can change at a moments notice without the chance to " tell my boss " that I won't be in. When you where in Kuwait waiting I was already in the Gulf. When you were wondering where every-one was I was pounding sand. We had reservists with us. After nine months of their whining about how much money they were losing while being delployed, Not being promoted, and finding it " unfair " that they may be out for mor ethan the 6 months we were told that we would be deployed I had had enough of it. There were a few that I wouldn't mind being deployed with again. But that would only cover about 15% of the ones I was there with. Yes Reservists are Marines. But most do not act like Marines. Most do not re-act like Marines. And most are only in for the college fund. I wish you could have seen the faces when they were told that we were joining in with the War against Iraq and wouldn't be home until later. You would have thought that the world had just stopped all movement. You know the " baby with gas " look. Then on top of that Most Reservists show the active duty little to no respect. Just because they can call each other by first names at the Reserve Station deosn't mean that they can call me by my first name, this coming from the Highest rank on down.

Do you relize what you stated...? " The Reservists are the first ones sent in ". I wish you would tell the Active duty Infantry that. It would have made their job alot easier. Let me give you some knowledge. First off, by the time you were notified that you were leaving for Iraq I was already there with around 75,000 oother active duty Marines. There was under 8,000 Reservists, only because they were on deployment with the Active at the time, on the ground or in the Gulf. You had a chance for a final " Farewell " while some of the Active duty were being extended while already out. I hadn't seen my family for 6 months when I was extended and it would be another 3 months before I would. You were able to, in most cases that I heard of, get paid from your civilian job as well as the Reserve for being there. Not to mention that when you got back it would be at least another year to three years before you would be activated again. Active duty are back maybe a year and then deployed again and again.

Like Shaffer said " I am putting this without the sugar coating ". I believe that Marines are Marines whether they are Reservists or Active. But there is a difference. Reservists are not Active Duty.

Marine84
04-24-06, 02:49 PM
Amen Shaffer and Junker - you guys couldn't have said it better.

DevilDogHEMech
04-27-06, 12:09 AM
I don't believe that reservists aren't "real" Marines because they spend more time in the civilian world than in our world, but one major reason I have seen for the animosity between active duty and reservists is that the reservists generally know a lot less about their MOS, and some I've seen showed very little interest in learning how to do it better, saying that "it has nothing to do with my real job back home so I'm not gonna waste my time with that". Bad attitudes like this are probably not prevalent in the reserves, but it still frustrated us active-duty folk that reservists were filling slots to do jobs that they didn't know how to do or didn't want to do, creating more work for us on an already busy deployment.

jryanjack
04-27-06, 07:03 AM
Form my experience in working with reserve Marines - which, granted was only one time and not during combat, is very similiar to what Devil Dog posted.

In my last unit - we were doing a month long excercise (I do not remember the name) in Camp LeJune and the CO decided to deploy the whole squadron - S-1 and all (it was hilarious to see the admins in the field!). Anyway, as we were short our T&O by about 10 ops guys we were augmented for two weeks by a reserve Sgt and a reserve Cpl. I do not recall any complaining but then again they were doing their two weeks a year stinit. However, my active duty PFC's and LCpl's knew more about the job then the Sgt and the Cpl combined - and in my MOS there is no training, if we f-up someone could get killed, its really that simple. So did we look down on the reserve guys - yes, not because they weren't what we defined as Marines, but because they didn't know what they were doing.

Marine84
04-27-06, 01:25 PM
Reservists also don't have to go through the field day EVERY Thursday (that's the night we had it on), room inspections EVERY Friday, uniform inspection EVERY morning when you muster, uniform inspection once a month with the SgtMaj, AND...................who can forget these............the phone call to the barracks in the middle of the night (because the base CO rolled over to get some and wifey told him no - he figures he's awake with nothing to do) and you have 5 minutes to get up, get in uniform (and you better look pretty g__dam good in it), take your toothbrush and comb with you and get your butt to your shop as fast as you can. THEN pull a full day working.......................

USMCgrunt0331
04-27-06, 03:42 PM
My opinion is reservists are still real Marines, but they are not in the real Marine Corps. They just standby and wait to go spend a stint with the rest of the real Marine Corps. I agree 100% with Shaffer and Junker. Reservist Marines are going to be looked down upon and there is contempt among active duty Marines for reservists b/c of the fact that they don't have to deal with a fraction of the BS active Marines do, and they're enjoying their nice, cushiony civlian life partying back at home, yet they still get to be Marines.

If you don't want to get called a tampon (b/c you're only used once a month), don't go reserves. Now to be fair, reservists are doing a lot more now since the Iraq war started with deployments and stuff, but it still doesn't come close to comparing with what active duty Marines have to do year round.

LivinSoFree
04-27-06, 08:30 PM
Apparently there are some misconceptions out there amongst the Active Duty crowd:


...and our day does not end at 1630.

I don't remember the last time ANY day ended at 1630 for us- and since we spend most of our drills in the field, it's a 24/7 evolution. Oh, and by the way, the rest of the month, our day doesn't end at 1630 either- AFTER we're done with school, work, the mechanics of staying alive, we're still PTing, doing MCIs, and taking care of all the **** that has to happen during the month to make drill happen. Drill weekends don't just appear out of thin air, and I&I doesn't just plan it for us either- there's a lot of work that gets done in between each drill weekend.


Then on top of that Most Reservists show the active duty little to no respect. Just because they can call each other by first names at the Reserve Station deosn't mean that they can call me by my first name, this coming from the Highest rank on down.

I don't remember the last time ANYONE called ANYONE ELSE by their first names at the drill center- it's all business. Sure, you're gonna have "the ten percent," but again, show me an active duty unit that doesn't. Apparently, y'all think that we just forget being a Marine after we leave boot camp. Reservists are Marines 24/7 just like anyone else- when the call comes, we go. There are 8 million reasons why an individual would be a reservist, a good number are former active duty, would you accuse them of the same shortfalls?


But most do not act like Marines. Most do not re-act like Marines. And most are only in for the college fund.

You should come to drill sometime- especially when we go to the field. We're in the mud, acting and reacting just like any other Marine is trained to. We get the same knowledge. And I challenge you to make the same "college fund" comment to me or the Marines around me. Sure, some joined for the money, BUT IT AIN'T THAT MUCH- if you want college money, go active duty. Reserve GI bill is a whole 297.00 a month/9 months a year/36 months total. Oh yeah- 'cause I'm gonna put myself through college on 300 bucks a month. RIGHT. Never mind the fact that drill pay barely even covers the gas I spend getting back and forth. Oh, and if the money issue offends you- come talk to the Marines who are overdrilled two or three times over and are doing it with NO PAY AT ALL because they put the MISSION BEFORE THEMSELVES. Being deployed with reservists for a few months is one thing, but take your own advice- be in a reserve unit for a couple years, and see what really happens.

And besides that, how many officers do you think got their start as enlisted reservists? Hell, I've got 3 besides myself in my company that are on their way to getting commissioned and going active- so where does that put us?

Just a few things to think about.

csilva
04-27-06, 08:50 PM
gas prices are crazy arent they!!! sheesh
just trying to lighten up the mood around here.

junker316
04-28-06, 06:45 PM
LivingSoFree,
There is alot of difference between Active Duty and the Reservists. Some I didn't bother bringing up because they are known through out. Like many stated, Including myself, Reservists that I have been with have done the reserve units in a whole much honor. I can go by what I witnessed and what they were talking about. I also complimented the Reserve by stating that there are a choosen few I would go back on deployment with. They showed alot of guts and heart that was unheard of from the other Reservists.

But you take what I said anyway you want because until proven differently I will still state that Reservists have alot to prove. They are still Marines but on a very different level, scale, and training. I know that they pay isn't alll that much and that they have to " endure " a week-end out of every 30 days and go back to work the following work day. I know that the college fund isn't as much but there arte states that will exempt Active duty and reduce the price for Reservists by more than half of the total price for tuition. i could care less how many officers started out as Reservists because they will need retrained when they hit the real Marine Corps.

I Congratulate you for Your hopefully soon commission. But from what I seen out of Cadets, Buttons, whatever you wish to call them, most have college already or were in ROTC. That doesn't mean that they know what they are doing. They may have brains but it takes more than brains to get you through. Toilet Paper is nice also until some-one wipes thier a$$ with it.

As for saying that " And I challenge you to make the same "college fund" comment to me or the Marines around me. " is a waste of time. Why challenge. You seem to have a guilty complex about it. There is no reason for me to come where ever you are to " Challenge " you or any-one Reservists about the college fund.

" I don't remember the last time ANY day ended at 1630 for us- and since we spend most of our drills in the field, it's a 24/7 evolution. Oh, and by the way, the rest of the month, our day doesn't end at 1630 either- AFTER we're done with school, work, the mechanics of staying alive, we're still PTing, doing MCIs, and taking care of all the **** that has to happen during the month to make drill happen. Drill weekends don't just appear out of thin air, and I&I doesn't just plan it for us either- there's a lot of work that gets done in between each drill weekend. " I never said that the Reservists didn't do a 24/7 day while on drill. I said that a Marine is 24/7. Not up to 1630 and then it's Civilian time. Here is what else I said " Like Shaffer said " I am putting this without the sugar coating ". I believe that Marines are Marines whether they are Reservists or Active. But there is a difference. Reservists are not Active Duty. " and I am very satisfied with that.

I thank the Reservists that stayed here while I was gone. At least i know that some-one with some training is back home defending my family while I was away defending the nation. I was and still am very grateful for the support and help. I will never turn a Reservists away nor will I deny the fact that they are a Marine. But they are not Active Duty. Most talk enough **** about knowing how the Active Duty are and have no idea of what it takes to be Active Duty. Of course until they are depolyed. And most see the Reserve Marine Force as a way to earn a little extra cash or get a little bit of college money or even, as one Reservists put it, to clear the boredom on a monthly basis. I have also seen Reservists that put shame to other reservists and active duty by how hard they worked and how quickly they jumped in to help. I watched as Reservists came in to Units and, just because of rank, declared that the Unit must change becaus ethat isn't how things are done at the Reserve Station. " and turn the Unit upside down for months. I watched as the reservists came in caused mass problems and left it all to the Active duty to clear up and I seen where some of the Reservists from that same F...ed up Unit came back down to help clear up that mess on thier own personal time.

So which Reservists are YOU talking about? The ones that know what Honor, Courage, and Commitment are or the ones that really don't give a F*&$? You may be proud to have served with the Reserves and I don't see any problem with that but you need to get off your wall and open your eyes. Reservists will never be Active Duty on any scale unless the Reservists go Active Duty, or have been Active Duty. Until then a Reservists is a reservists no matter how goo dthey are or what they know. Active Duty will remain Active Duty for the same reason. It is true that if you don't use it you lose it. Training included. Fleet Marines use thier training on a daily basis whereas Reservists use thier training on a monthly basis. Humans do forget when they don't use what they are taught. It's only normal.

Marine84
05-01-06, 08:38 AM
OOH RAH Junker!

cplbrooks
06-10-06, 09:05 PM
I'm going to go ahead as an Active Duty Marine and stir this fire a little bit. Getting through Boot Camp is one of the easiest parts of a Marines career. The Fleet is an entirely different story and unless you have served in the Fleet you cannot understand what the daily life of an Active Duty Marine is like. Zero-Dark Thirty formations on a daily basis, as well as the pre-chow formation and the end of the day formation. Chinese Field Day on a Fri night or Sat morning because you had Ice in your freezer??? Standing Duty on the Christmas 96. Cleaning the Barracks not because they are dirty but because its Thursday. Filling out 10 different forms to go see your folks for the weekend and sitting through the same Safety Brief every few weeks. And the list goes on and on. I'm sure many of the other Active and former Active Duty Marines here could add pages to this list. And we are not complaining about it. To us that is just part of our job. Reservists go to war and then go home. They do a fantastic job while they are there. We definitley need reservists. They are no less a Marine than an Active Duty one. But we do this job every day...and our day does not end at 1630. So before you go complaining about Active Duty attitudes you need to walk a mile in our shoes and you will understand why we have that attitude.


I would have to agree with this. I always kind of resented the reservists. They got to go home at the end of their duty weekend. We didnt get to go home for four years other than for 10 days every year. I know that the corps gives 30 but getting the leave isnt always that easy.

reservists who spent their first four years have all of my respect. Guys who have always been reservists only have 9/10 of my respect. Just my opinion.

Echo_Four_Bravo
06-11-06, 12:28 AM
OK, I have been reading through this thread, and have been trying to keep my mouth shut. But, the reservists on this thread have really ticked me off, and I am sure plenty of other Marines as well. Since I have decided to post, I am not going to sugar coat anything or attempt to be politically correct. I am just going to state what I have seen and experienced, and encourage everyone to look at what has happened in Iraq thus far, and where the difference is between the reserve units and the active duty units.

I speak as one of the few (at least it seems like it) Marines on this board that served on both active duty and in the reserve. While on active duty we had reservists around sometimes and while in the reserve I worked with some active duty Marines. The difference in the two is clear and obvious. Reservists don't know what they are doing, period.

I am going to gloss over the active duty side. It has been covered here, and the reserve portion of this thread refuses to acknowledge the truth. So, here is my reserve story of the day:

I went to CAX with 2/25 the summer after I got off of active duty. (With the TOW section of CAAT, Weapons Co.) One trip to the field was all I needed to see. As a communications Marine, I would not expect my knowledge of tactics and general infantry skills to be as high as an 03 Marine. However, it seemed clear that the section leader (a Gunny and Gulf I vet) and I were the only two people that had a clue. The Marines would expose themselves regularly and often. They would line the trucks up on a ridge to watch a missile shot by one of the guns, and then stay after the shot was taken. (Anybody with an ounce of common sense should know that is about the dumbest thing in the world.) In addition, I can only remember 1 hit being recorded in all the missiles fired. A whole lot of smoke and explosions, little to no damage done. In a real world situation, they would have done little more than **** the enemy off. While in the reserve I was serving as an 0621, my secondary MOS. There was a group of 0622s (my primary MOS) from a reserve unit at Camp Wilson. I walked over to say hello to the Marines, and learned that they couldn't do anything more than turn the radio on. While trying to help them fix their situation, we started talking. The Marines were clueless. If I had a PFC in my active duty unit with the knowledge base of these Marines, I would have had a stroke. It was simply unacceptable. Two different groups of reservists, and one clear message; they are not on the same level as the Marines that are serving on active duty.

I left the reserve not long after this fiasco. I simply could not feel comfortable in a unit that was so far below my own standards. Looking back, I am sure that this was more a product of my active duty background than of the reserve. If I had not served on active duty, I wouldn’t have known of the shortcomings of the reserve unit. But, I carried the expectation that they were all Marines, and there wouldn’t be a difference. While they are clearly Marines, they aren’t the same. Now, some years removed, I am considering going back in the reserve. The gap in time should serve as a buffer between what I expected then, and what I expect now. That speaks volumes if you know me. I would not serve with anything but a United States Marine unit. The reservists are Marines, no question. They just are different than Marines that serve on active duty.

I have edited this post several times before posting it. There is another issue I would like to deal with, but with respect to the Marine involved I will refrain and simply tell any poolee still reading this thread to check any information posted, it may not be even close to true.

Noci
06-11-06, 01:04 AM
LOL, I went active first then joined the reserves, while doing a CAX some 2 yr Lcpl gave me the attitude? I laughed and told him get a clue, he asked what the fug that meant, the boys replied he was active and this is like his 6th year, your a boot to him!

Yeah Reserves are not taken as serious IMO, too bad met some great reserve Marines. There may be more **** birds but not as many as made to believe.

Noci
06-11-06, 01:09 AM
Echo, I understand what your saying. But imagine this , I practice basketball everyday you do it once a month?? Given equal talent or close I'd smoke you right? Same thing here, they are an important element of the Corp. I'd say poor leadership has something to do with this maybe too?

Echo_Four_Bravo
06-11-06, 12:41 PM
Noci, poor leadership may be to blame, but I'm not sure. In the reserve unit I was a part of, SNCO's with combat experience were common. Many were in places in their civillian lives where they didn't need the money, so that wasn't a concern. They were there just to try to help their country and their Corps.

The idea that they don't practice enough is correct. It simply is not possible for them to spend as much time training as their active duty counterparts do. In the reserve, people would complain about going to the field every drill (I really didn't want to hear it, I EAS'ed in the field and didn't complain.). They liked to say that they didn't ever do anything but go to the field. Well, 2 days a month isn't much training time. If we'd have gone to the field for only 2 days in a month in the fleet, we would have thought something was terribly wrong.

But, I also think that it is a matter of the Marine Corps not being priority one for these people. When we came across a problem, it wasn't unusual for the talk and problem solving to continue at the barracks, trying to come to a solution. In the reserves, many of the people won't come into contact with each other again for a month. It isn't that the reservists are doing anything wrong, it is just different. Trying to pretend that it isn't doesn't serve anyone's purposes.

Noci
06-11-06, 02:04 PM
From what my buddy told me who did 2 tours recently a cohesivness is formed before they actually ship to the combat zone, think he said they stayed at Pendelton for 10 weeks before shipping. They trained a ****load and got theie **** in gear. I agree it's not the same 100% but they do a dam good job considering.

junker316
06-14-06, 02:19 PM
From what my buddy told me who did 2 tours recently a cohesivness is formed before they actually ship to the combat zone, think he said they stayed at Pendelton for 10 weeks before shipping. They trained a ****load and got theie **** in gear. I agree it's not the same 100% but they do a dam good job considering.

NOCI The Reserve is just that...Reserve. Their training isn't nearly as inteanse as Active Duty training and I agree that it falls alot on leadership. But most Reservists that I came in contact with, whether as active duty or National Gaurd, had the same attitude. They thought that their trianing wasn't really important until the Sh#t hit the fan. Then it became important to them. Most thought that their rank, as a reservists who never was active duty, made them into a super knowledge machine. Where as most of my LCpls knew more than the Reservists Guuny but had to follow instruction becasue of rank. I shared the fence as well. From Active duty to National Guard and back Active. I couldn't handle the fact that in a time of War That I would be placed with a group of people that thought less of their training than their personal lives. The problems were always there but pushed under the rug and made to dissappear. Never solved really but just gone. I was in a Field Arty Unit with the Guard and that was not what I knew a Field Arty Unit should be like. I was a Armor Crewmen while Active the first time around and dealt with the Arty alot. Now I am Admin and still the Reserve that came down was granted every little Award possible while the Active Duty took it as doing our job. The Moans, Groans, and Complaints that I heard from the reserve on a regular basis weren't funny. And then having to Deploy with them was even worse. Unit Cohesion was not found in the Reserve Unit except between certain groups of Marines were as the Active Duty side was like Glue. Their wasn't just small groups of Marines just talking to each other and no-one else, not to say that therre was groups in the Active side, but we all would get together to solve the problems that would arise. The Reservists were good at spreading rumors to geet every aroused and upset then the Active side had to deal with it.

I respect the Reserveists for what they do and all that but they are nothing compared to Active Duty, unless my standards are to high, but I Believe that as a Marine you should know your training to proform not matter what the occasion might be. And the Reservists don't. Their training is lacking to say the least and their attitude of " well they can only activate me for a year " is just plain unacceptable. Leadership is a big factor in this but when you have a Cpl talking to a Gunny by first name only in front on other Marines then there is a problem. I don't care whether they are Reservists or Active, We are all taught that Rank and Last name only when speaking to another Marine especially if they are higher than yourself.

Sixguns
06-14-06, 02:37 PM
I must side with Shaffer.

Reserve units take weeks to mobilize and insert into a theater of operation. Go check your history books! The first units to cross the line of departure into Iraq and Kuwait were not reserve units. In fact, the reserve units are just that, units in reserve to supplement active forces. They are often used as replacement units or occupying forces.

Are they still trained as all Marines are? YES! Are they still considered Marines? YES! They even get the same uniforms. A Marine is a Marine.

Don't misunderstand though, reserve units are not the first ones in!

Marine84
06-14-06, 03:53 PM
The reservists I came across didn't give a fat baby's a$$ how to work on a bomb rack - the first time they came in and showed us THAT, the next time they drilled we had them field day the hell out of the shop. We actives were doing all of the work anyway because these guys just did not care. And a lot of these poolees that are going reserve will be the same way because the majority that I have met/talked to just want to do college through the military and don't want to hold up to their end of the bargain with the Corps - which is, be ready to jump as high as they tell you to jump and when they tell you to jump. They don't want to hear no whining about missing a class and not being able to get credit for it after you've spent the money for it, or you can't go because all of a sudden you turn into a concientious (sp) objector (what kind of stuff is THAT anyway?), or you just don't want to drill a particular weekend.

I've said it a 1000 times before - THE CORPS AIN'T BURGER KING! If you do not have the HONOR and the COURAGE to make the COMMITMENT, stay out of the Corps cause I don't want you watching my house at night unless you do. I had the HONOR and the COURAGE to make the COMMITMENT 22 years ago to watch your house at night, please do the same for me now.

Echo_Four_Bravo
06-14-06, 04:44 PM
OOHRAH Marine 84.

Camper51
06-14-06, 04:49 PM
Well said, Marine84. As it has been said time and time again. Those who live and breathe the Corps 24/7 are going to be much better in the field than ANYONE who only drills 2 days a month with a 2 week vacation, oops I mean two week activation a year. Even my dumb @ss field of computer operations could see that with the reservists we had to deal with for their two weeks each summer. Those guys just had no clue of what was going on and we generally had em doing field day or "shaggin tapes n disks" for two weeks and kept em the hell off our computers for fear they would screw it all up.

We were responsible for ALL bonds, allotments, etc that went out. Would you want to trust a reservist with running that program?? We also paid all Marines on active duty outside CONUS(except Viet Nam), all reserve pay, and more. Again we did not trust reservists who did NOT know how to do our work to be able to "git er done".

This may have been a support role in the Corps, but how would you have felt if we had NOT done our jobs and you did not get paid, or your insurance allotment was not paid, or your savings bond was not sent out??? Mighty important stuff to the guy who is waiting for that money, or his family that needed it.

So did I look down on reservists??? Well I can honestly say I just wasn't too enamored with them when I had to deal with them for their "2 weeks" a year...

Ramon
06-14-06, 07:33 PM
Real Marines wouldn't let Marines down.

Show of hands? How many have you been on an I&I Staff. Because most of you don't know what you are taking about.

I&I Staff T/O: Capt-I&I, 1stSgt-I&I 1stSgt, GySgt-I&I Gunny, HMCPO-I&I Corpman, GySgt/SSgt-I&I SupChief, GySgt/SSgt-I&I AdminChief, Sgt/Cpl-I&I UD Clerk, Sgt/Cpl-I&I SRB Clerk, Sgt/Cpl-I&I MT Chief, GySgt/SSgt-I&I SupChief, Sgt/Cpl-I&I WareHouseman, SSgt/Sgt-I&I Armory, and Sgt/Cpl-I&I TrainingNCO

All the personnel that are listed are active duty Marines. Three (03) year tour of duty. If the Reservists fall short, it is do to the I&I Staff.

If you have a Reservists with a six (06) year contract who does not show for drills, Annual Training Duty (ATD) and doesn't do make ups, gone active duty. Any prior service Marine or any personnel from other armed service can join the Marine Corps Reserves. If prior sevice couldn't hack it gone. We discharged them to Inactive Reserve (IR).

Found fault with active duty Marines at MCB's and MCAS's for ADT. When I&I Staff along with Reservists advances parties show up to Limited Technical Inspection (LTI) of hosts equipment. Most Equipment were Dead Line (DL), Admin Dead Line (ADL) or waiting parts. When ranges were schedule the ammo would be late and along with range personnel. Reservists need good equipment to train on. To perform well as Marines, your equipment needs to perform as well in training.

This subject just bruns me up. I was on I&I Staff from 08/1982 to 04/1987.

Here is a prime example of lack of leadership.

Shaffer
06-14-06, 08:08 PM
I can see some of your points but I beg to differ.

1. The Marine Corps has been doing more with less since the beginning of time. Please show me where "good equipment" is a part of any Marine Corps regulations, manuals, doctrines, etc.

2. I help put on a couple Toys For Tots events each year. We get anywhere from 10-25 "Reserve" Marines. Out of that 10-25, I have to talk with at least 70% for one reason or another EVERY YEAR. Here is a list:

1. Marine wearing only 1 chevron on his collar. (No Joke!)
2. Marines hair was at least an inch long on the sides.
3. Cammies completely wrinkled.
4. Boots looked like they just arrived back from the swamps of Georgia.
5. Marine could barely button his blouse because he was so fat and nasty.

Please tell me where in the fleet you saw these things on a regular basis. If you saw one of these they would get their six chewed or taken a beaten if it was a regular occurance. Their NCO's & SNCO's inspect them every year before they leave the base. And the NCO's & SNCO's march them right in the place like nothing is wrong.

AGAIN FOR THE LAST TIME...PLEASE GIVE ME ONE professional basketball player, football player, hockey player, baseball player who practices 2 days per month? If they are very good at what they do, then why do they practice.....

DUH!!!

Either you are a "Professional" Marine or you are a weekend warrior.

Echo_Four_Bravo
06-14-06, 08:38 PM
Top, I understand why you're making the argument, but that isn't is how it always works. I wasn't I&I, but I did report to my reserve unit before my EAS (which I was later told I shouldn't have been able to do), so the fleet was fresh in my mind. Simply put, the reserve Marines do not meet the same criteria.

As far as DL and ADL equipment, we had the same issues in the fleet. Yet, we always found a way to get beyond those issues and continue to train. But, I do know that the best gear I ever came into contact with was the equipment given to the reservists at CAX. The vehicles were newer and in better condition than anything I had come into contact with while on active duty. The only gear that didn't function perfectly were the fill cables for the KYK-13's. And, I would give any unit a pass on that issue. The desert heat makes the fragile when they are bent.

Sixguns
06-14-06, 08:41 PM
I disagree Ramon!

The I&I staff is responsible for maintaining the operational readiness of the unit. That means making sure SRBs/OQRs are updated and current, equipment is maintained and ready, etc. What you failed to state is that these active duty Marines are permanent personnel of the reserve center. They do not deploy with the reserve unit! On the reserve side of the house, they have their own chain of command, including a commander and senior enlisted Marine. Reserve commanders and senior enlisted are responsible for arranging training and support through the I&I staff.

Talking about active duty or host units with downed equipment, don't get me started! How hard is it to maintain a 6-by or hummer that goes out once a month and gets less than 10 hours operating time??? Most of which is on paved roads!!

How about the Reserves being responsible to enlist future Marines for their own unit? I had I&I staff members and Reserve commanders trying to pay me to enlist someone and give their unit credit for the contract!!! How about getting out there and helping sell your Corps and staffing your own unit!! Reservists are in the community just as much as recruiters and RARELY have I ever gotten a call with a prospect! That would be a great way for a part-time Marine to give full-time support to his Corps! I can't imagine a recruiter saying I have no time to interview a potential recruit/reservist!!


For those reserve Marines who wonder why there might be a bit of hostility, a Marine should be a Marine 24-7, 365 in all aspects. Look the part, act the part and be a part of the team full-time, not just when drill weekend rolls around or at ADT.

Echo_Four_Bravo
06-14-06, 11:16 PM
Sixguns, I was the Motor-T NCO for my platoon, and that taught me one thing. Keeping the hummers running is much more difficult than one would think. And for some reason, they always seemed to like going cross country more than down the hard ball. But, they could be sitting in the parking lot and they would spring leaks, starters would go bad, all sorts of things. Having a hummer that isn't working isn't how I judged things, it was how long it took us, or Motor-T to get it up again that mattered to me.

Ramon
06-14-06, 11:39 PM
Mind you when I arrived at Folsom and the frist drill. The reservists were wearing 20 different uniforms. So next drill he had a junk on the bunk. What they didn't have in their seabag the SupChief ordered it. The over weight Marines were consul and put on weight control. There was a doctor schedule for that drill to give them physicals. The ones that didn't go on weight control were gone. Following drill PFT. The ones who didn't pass put on remedial, the ones who didn't want remedial PT were gone. In using the MCO's we went from 106 to 62 Marines in 6 months. Always stressed leadership.

From 62 Marines to T/O Company 163 Marines in two years.

I see in your profile you haven't any floats. When you go to war all equipment is supposed to be ready. All Dead Line (D/L) equipment is report to CMC and to JCS. If your equipment is not ready you are not ready. As SerPlt PltCdr with the MSSG-31 all my Plt's equipment was 100% up. You could not go to the I/O (Indian Ocean) with down equipment. When you pass the chop line your priors went to 01, 03 and 07. At the chop line any equipment D/L was cross decked along with short MOS Marines.

The Navy dropped a tank in Subic Bay moving it on to Mike-8. When the tank was recovered, the fire control system was damaged by salt water. The tank was replaced before leaving Subic Bay.

T/E 7 1/2 ton crane to lift engines and helo blades in support of the Air Wing. Some one started it up, played with the controls and snapped the cable. Back loading at Red Beach on to the LST in Okinawa the operator drove up the ramp and damaged the front outriggers. No one saw the damage until we off loaded in Subic Bay. It was fourth echelon repair. We were limited to little fourth echelon. Went to the Sea Bees for the repairs. There is no way you can go to the I/O with out a heavy lift capibilty to pull harrier engines and blades from Ch46's and Ch53's.

In Sydney, Australia where the LST was berthed, the dock side crane was down. 7 1/2 crane was on the LST. We move it topside and brought the stores on.

When you make a beach land, wheel vehicles don't always make it off the beach. You need track capibilty to move struck vehicles off the beach. If my Case 1150/w 4-1 bucket was D/L how could we move those vehicles off the beach. The Navy has one D-8.

So no matter what, you need good equipment, just like the equipment you trainned on. Did you fire a D/L M-16A2 at recurit training. I guess not.

I don't know how you got selected for I&I Duty. Most billets are filled by NCO's and SNCO's. Non rates no our Staff were transferred to us to be discharge for administrative or humanitarian reasons. However you got there, you fail to train those Marines. You failed and I&I Staff failed with you. In our short comings we point out one finger to blame, but always fail to see the three pointing back.

Ramon
06-15-06, 12:18 AM
Sixguns we had a prior service recruiter. Once the dead weight left. We started to select good Marines from the IR. A Sgt and Cpl ran the Company when I got there. CO for the unit was a figure head. At one point in training Sgt Vaugh was given a class. The reservists were talking and carring on like he wasn't there. I stopped Sgt Vaugh and told the Officer and Staff to leave. I dressed the unit down and took off my blouse told them if any one had a problem with me I'd be in the tree line waiting. I'm not the badest Marine around and they weren't going to ran me out of Dodge. I waited about thrity-five minutes until Sgt Vaugh came and told me their was no takers. I had no problems with training at all.

Echo_Four_Bravo
06-15-06, 12:32 AM
I dressed the unit down and took off my blouse told them if any one had a problem with me I'd be in the tree line waiting. I'm not the badest Marine around and they weren't going to ran me out of Dodge. I waited about thrity-five minutes until Sgt Vaugh came and told me their was no takers. I had no problems with training at all.

I think that is one thing that holds true, not matter what type of Marine you're talking about. A ticked off senior SNCO that is willing to whip some tail has a way of fixing the attitude problems that Marines have from time to time. I say I would have loved to have seen that, but it may have been me that you were mad at.

His_angel
06-15-06, 12:42 AM
Regular versus reserves? That is but one of the many lines and distinctions made in the Marine Corps.

To some 03 MOS Marines anything else is a “lesser” Marine. To some male Marines a WM is a “lesser” Marine. To some Marines a Marine that works admin or supply is considered a “lesser” Marine. And sadly there are some Marines who consider other Marines as “lesser” because of color, origin or religion. Some Marines are more outspoken and honest and will proudly tell others exactly what they think. Some Marines are more reserved and have more tact thus even if they feel another Marine or group of Marines are “lesser than” in their mind won’t say a word.

I never worked with reserve Marines so I can’t directly comment on that. But I can speak as a woman Marine and as a Marine who was in the airwing. There were male Marines who made it well known that they didn’t think I was a “real” Marine and that I and other women did not belong in their Marine Corps. There were Marines who made it known that “wingers” were not “real” Marines. And even some of the women I served with and some of the other Marines I worked with were vocal about how the Marines working admin were not “real” Marines. And there were Marines who didn’t verbally voice their prejudices but their actions spoke much louder than their words.

I remember being told in boot that women had to work twice as hard for half the recognition. That was true to some point. For some it doesn’t matter how squared away another Marine may be, how motivated, how hard they work or how much motivation and dedication they have. There will always be other Marines with the attitude that they are “better than.” So of course there will be active duty Marines who view reserves as “lesser” Marines. That attitude is in all other aspects of the Corps so why not active versus reserves? Most times I feel the pride and the brotherhood of the Marines as much as anyone can. Other times I know I am viewed as the red headed step child. Sometimes it’s just good natured ribbing. Other times it’s meanness I just let roll off my shoulder or something I force myself to ignore. And yet other times it is just ignorance or bigotry not worthy of my time or worry. No matter what I am always proud to be a Marine.

Angel

yellowwing
06-15-06, 12:43 AM
I say I would have loved to have seen that, but it may have been me that you were mad at.
Laughing My Azz Off! Lets get back to the basics. We are Marines. We are at War. I'd trust any Marine to watch my back. I know that deep down in their heart that they will rather die than let me down.

Recently I found out that my ex-nephew is now a Marine. I remember him as an 8 year old brat. Now I would have no problem implicitly trusting in his Fidelity and Abilities. He is now assigned to the Reserve Grunt Unit out of Nashville Tennessee.

In the heart of each and every swinging d*ck Marine is Chesty Puller and John Basilone. And we humbly call it, "Just doing my job."

Semper Fi

bugs
06-15-06, 06:19 AM
Bobman,
In this post is all the reasoning you need to read for the different viewing AD and R Marines Receive.
As for the 25th Marines, I take it you just watched the 'made for tv' show on Lima Co? Were you ever to find the information you were looking for?

NOW.....I mean no disrespect in anything I write.
Wow, this tread has it all, from ‘fake’ Marines to ‘real’ Marines in the ‘Real’ Corps. This tread has moved so far from the opening questions of the tread, as most do. But these responses have moved In directions that should not be posted in this forum. Let Polees make their own distinctions.

THIS TREAD SHOWS A HUGH LACK OF RESPECT TOWARDS MARINES, SOME OF WHICH OUTRANK THEM & SOME OF WHOM WERE ACTIVE AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER!

For all Marines, yea, even the ‘fake’ ones, I’ll make a new post, or ask a moderator to push this post into the Marine only forum?

OH NO, maybe the reserve Marines (including myself) won’t be able to view it then?
I will have much more to post at that time……….

Echo_Four_Bravo
06-15-06, 12:08 PM
I don't know if I posted it, but the reserve unit I was with attached elements to each of the infantry bn.s in the 4th Division. I happened to be attached to 2/25, so I may be able to help with any 25th Marines questions, or know someone that can help.

gwladgarwr
06-15-06, 01:02 PM
Shaffer- to address a couple points.

First of all- we do comprise a major component of what's sent in first, especially in non-infantry roles, such as Comm, Motor T, etc. My unit was sitting in Kuwait before the invasion started and rolled in with the rest of them. Even reserve Recon units were involved (read 'Generation Kill' by Evan Wright).

Secondly- I'm fully aware of the bullsh*t attitude that active duty gives to reservists just because they're reservists. This is about the DUMBEST thing I've ever witnessed in the Marine Corps. Why the HELL would you want to alienate Marines that may be an asset to your unit before you've even seen them perform? If you want to make an assessment of individual Marines, GO AHEAD, BUT DO IT ON THE BASIS OF THEIR PERFORMANCE, NOT YOUR OWN PREJUDICE. I can point to plenty of cases when reservists have performed just fine, and in some cases outshined Active Duty who think they've got it made and can let "those damn weekend warriors" do the work. Hell, when we went to MCT, every Marine on the meritorious board was a reservist, and my weekend warrior ass was the honor grad. Not a boast, just an illustration. Almost every Marine in my unit's been to the sandbox for AT LEAST one hitch, if not 2 or 3. There're plenty of Active Duty that've managed to avoid deployment entirely.

Reserve Marines are generally older, many have college degrees, and bring a lot of experience and COMMON SENSE to the battlefield. The Marines I work with on a regular basis are consummate professionals- even if they don't want to be in anymore, they keep their **** on lock like everyone else. Sure, there's always "the ten percent," but show me an active duty unit that doesn't have the same thing.

I'm a reservist because it's the first step what with any luck will be a long career, and the experience I've gained has already proven invaluable, and will continue to be useful once I'm active duty, be it officer or enlisted side. It's a great way for future Lieutenants to get an experience base while in college and earning their commission. Reservists are deploying left and right to fill holes so that we can send Active Duty home for some well-deserved stateside time.

People can talk all the sh*t they want about reservists, but we bleed green just like any other Marine, and believe me, when it's your turn to rotate back to the states, or your platoon comes up short, you want us there.

That's a long reply, fer shur.

I'd be interested in seeing the stats on promotions, pro/cons, etc. on Reservists vs. AD Marines - not that I notice much of a difference.

However, the good OCS candidate has pointed out several important facts:

*Reservists tend to be older, more mature, and already professionally established (as if AD Marines weren't "professionally" established in their "field" - I just made a funny, btw - get it, "Marines in their field"? :banana: )

*Reservists tend to have a higher level of education (and not only in the Marine Corps).

*Reservists tend to bring a second set of skills from the civilian world into the military that AD Marines often do not have, and they DON'T necessarily get extra pay or a secondary or B-Billet for those skills. For instance, I'm an LAV wrench turner, but when I was on Annual Summer Camp (that's AT for us nasty Reservists), not only did I turn a wrench, I played French interpreter for the my command and the Moroccans. And I'm not talking about how to say cuss words in French - I had to give the specs on the 25mm gun on the LAV-25 AND on the LAV-TOW, and interpret during staff meetings. I have to say, the only Marine I know who can do THAT is former Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. Jones, and HE's in Belgium!

*Reservists comprise about 40% of all Marine ground troops - combat or support (I can't remember the exact number, but I'm sure HQMC will not release that exact number due to security concerns.

*Reservists perform and maintain and often surpass their AD counterparts in basic training, promotions, and continuing/PME training. Me, as a nasty weekend warrior from Day 1, was Company High PFT (300, no applause, thank you) at Parris Island (I was also Battalion High PFT, but they don't give away Xeroxed certificates for that, though; I also did so at age 33 and outperformed every single recruit except for the two skinny f***ers, both of whom were also "old guys" at 27 years of age each who beat me in the 3-mile run by 5 seconds, and both were Saturday Sea Soldiers, too.)

In short, I can't see the difference between Reservists and AD, and sometimes I confuse the two. I'm no less a Marine because I show up to Upshur once a month; I still have to do my MCIs, my discrepancy sheets on my vehicles (I'm responsible for six of them), I still have to call my section, I still have to get on MOL, MyPay, read MARADMINS and ALMARS, stop off at the unit on my off-time to get this/drop off that, do my little PFTs, take/get my uniforms from the cleaners, get my weekly haircut, etc. It doesn't stop at 1600 on Sundays.

And don't get me started on Toys For Tots (though it's often the I & I Staff that runs it - it's the Reservists who panhandle for the toys at the mall, the Shriners' Christmas Dinner, the oncology ward at Children's Hospital, etc.) I've worn out four sets of Corframs hustling suburbanite cows for toys, but the free drinks at the Legion and VFW halls sorta make up for the blisters.

Yes, it's true that AD Marines often look down on Reservists, and sometimes they are justified in doing so, but as the candidate stated, it goes both ways, and it's always that 10% or whatever that sets the tone. I've seen rocks on both sides, and I've seen locked-on pros on both sides, so I think the distinction is a moot point.

When the public, however, starts talking about "just" a Reservist, I've gotten into fights over the "just" part. So, my happy a** "just a Reservist" self got sent to play on the Iranian border. Yeah, "just"; good to go.

A lady at the DMV almost made me go into apopletic shock when she wouldn't let me have the state vanity plate for Marines because she said I was "only a Reservist". Not only did I call invite her to gatheraroundschool circlemynameisCorporalRaceandthisperiodofinstructi onwillbeyoudontknowyouraXXfromaholeinthegroundyadu mbcXXX.

Needless to say, when I demanded to speak with her supervisor, he was too scared to come out of his office, and I got my Marine Corps vanity plate. Then, I got deployed. So much for being "only a Reservist". But I got my vanity plate, so THAT's the important thing.:flag:

Echo_Four_Bravo
06-15-06, 11:46 PM
You can claim it is the same all you want. I don't want to, but I guess I will answer your comments.

1. The reservists I was around were not older or more mature, I have no clue where you would get this idea. They were 18 year old kids, many of whom acted like it. Some were dedicated Marines, others couldn't figure out that a 0700 formation didn't really mean 0900, or whenever they got up. Their maturity level was far below that of the average AD Marine.
2. Yeah, many do have a higher level of civillian education- because they have the time to do such things. A reservist can take all the hours he wants, an AD Marine is very limited. More importantly, I don't see how a business class can help one understand how to locate, close with, and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver or repel the enemy assault by fire and close combat. It is a nonissue, and simply here to throw the topic off track.
3. Accomplishments in boot camp don't impress me. I know that is the is one of the longest periods you were on active duty, and you don't have much else to go by. But, you were not a Marine, nor were those you were competing with. I am glad you did well, but company high PFT doesn't tell me what kind of Marine you will be.

Echo_Four_Bravo
06-15-06, 11:58 PM
OK, I hit enter on the above post before I wanted to. I tried to edit it, but the system wouldn't let me, said it had been longer than 5 minutes. So.... all that is wasted. Regardless, I will repost how I closed, and leave it at that.

The AD and Reserve components aren't the same, no matter how much you wish they were. Simply put, if they were really on the same level, there would be no active duty Marines, everyone would be a reservist. It would save the government a ton of money and headaches to have all Marines train for 38 days a year. But, most Marines are there every day because it simply works better that way. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings, but it is just how it is.

Sixguns
06-16-06, 11:14 AM
The beauty of this thread is that there are a variety of opinons and experiences sited. This is (somewhat) healthy. Marines in general are smarter, better educated and better equipped and trained than three decades ago. We are not robots, programmed to spout out the institutional answers to every question or idea. The fact that we can (for the most part) intelligently articulate our views is what makes us all better. For the young members who are not Marines, no one here is trying to persuade you or disuade you from the choice you will make for yourself. The good news is you are getting a lot of feedback on the pros/cons of your decision. Sometimes, you don't get the whole picture when seeing an ad on TV or talking to a recruiter. Some recruiters are biased. I had one who prided himself on never enlisting a Reservist. As Marine leaders it is our job to educate our subordinates and give them the necessary information to make sound and timely decisions. One day, we will all be gone and our hope should be that we prepared our Marines well enough to go on and lead without us, active or reserve.

Marine84
06-16-06, 01:27 PM
You know Sixguns, it's so nice to see that a recruiter wants these newbies to WANT to guard his house too - they don't want to if they get bad or 1/2a$$ info.

Echo_Four_Bravo
06-16-06, 01:54 PM
Well put Sixguns. While this has turned into Marines doing what they do best (b!tch!ng), it is showing the young wannabes both sides of the argument. And, as many of them know, we clearly see the Reservists as Marines. If they weren't, they wouldn't be allowed to argue like this!

jennifer
06-17-06, 05:09 AM
My recruiter enlisted so many reservists, it was ridiculous. One of them included me. I kind of wish he would have exlpained both sides more and convinced me to go active in the first place because come September, I'll be augmenting to active duty and I'll have been in for 2yrs. (well it's two years this month) But I always say that everything happens for a reason and I don't regret going reserve first because I have had a good time with this unit I am currently with and I have met some great Marines!!

Marine84
06-17-06, 09:46 AM
another satisfied customer................

USMC8541Sgt
01-01-08, 05:18 PM
Well........... 13 odd years as a nasty reservist, and 2 on AD. I saw the 10% S...birds on AD and in the Reserves. When we were doing Baltic Challenge in 98 the AD guys were the worst representation I could imagine of what a Marine should be. At sniper school, the high shooter and the 2nd in academics were both reservists. Seemed to hold their own there. Then again, I have seen some reservists that were an embarrassment! I don't think they should have been boy scouts let alone Marines! 2/25 and 2/23 were two infantry units that were part of the initial invasion of Iraq. They also spent all of 2002 on AD as well as 2003. Not bad for a bunch of weekend warriors. I believe that an LAV unit was there as well.

At MCB CL we got harassed by some AD "Real" Marines as being half assed Marines. (Not that we were doing anything, they just wanted to cause an issue) Then they found out that two of us had just gotten off AD after 4 years. (as in 2 months before and they knew some of the same people.) Another of us did 6 on AD and now had 2 in the Reserves. Many reservists are former AD. 2/25 when on AD sent quite a few Reservist Marines to schools and most graduated at the top of their class.

The desire to be a Marine is there, both on the AD side and the "R" side. But because they/we are only doing this one weekend a month, we will need some "spin up " time to get prep-ed. Every Marine is a Rifleman right? Yet the non-combat MOS Marines still need refresher training to get ready and do the job as a rifleman well. Same goes for the Reserves. We NEED a Reserve. That is plain and simple. I thought I was **** hot until I went on AD and got to go to school. I was good, but DAMN I had a lot to learn, and learn it I did. From AD Marines who do it all the time. I think being a "R" helped me in the long run, to think outside the box, but I needed the full time Marines to get me from walking my job to running it!

So............... there are the 10% s-birds on both sides. Reserves just are not as good at hiding them. They are also under the spot light more. so it seems like its not 10% but 20%.

My .02 and worth what you paid for it.

Echo_Four_Bravo
01-01-08, 05:37 PM
Nothing like bringing up a thread from 18 months ago. Especially when it is a thread that was better off buried.

USMC8541Sgt
01-01-08, 05:40 PM
Sorry I steped in. Get a mod to close it then. Glad to see you helped add to it.

ZSKI
01-01-08, 08:23 PM
Common sense should explain the difference. The more time you spend doing something, the better you will be. Lets transfer it over to real-world situations. Lets take football for example. If a football player practices and plays year round, will he better than a football player who practices and plays 30 days out of the year?

Practice always makes perfect no matter who you are. Being around Marines and living the life as a Marine 24 hours a day makes you a completely different person than when you are around Marines and living the life of a Marine 24 hours per month. Reservists live with civilians which means they think act and behave like civilians.

For any resevist that may question this, allow me to paint a picture so that you can see through the eyes of an active duty Marine...

Think back to when you went through bootcamp. Do you remember entering the chow during 3rd phase? Remember seeing those platoons in first phase and thinking how "unsat" they were. Remember how hard you looked and how you looked down at those platoons?

That is exactly what an active duty Marines sees when he looks at MOST reservists.

Again if you are squared away, hard-charging, hair is regulation, uniform is regulation, body fat ISN'T pushing the standards, etc., etc., etc. then you are one of the few. Unfortunately you are not the majority.

Now that doesn't mean they are not a Marine. They went through bootcamp and EARNED the title like everyone else. They should be proud. It only means they are not as squared away as their active duty counterparts.

Semper Fi,
Jerry

I've seen some fat ****s who are active. And your making quite an assumption there saying the majority are **** bags. My platoon has an average pft score of about 280. We do have LCPL Burke (Formally CPL) he is what you might call a ****bag but he can PT better then most of us always wears his uniform properlly. And he picked up CPL in Iraq meritorious. He just has a problem if you tell him to do something that he thinks is retared he will tell you to go **** your self doesn't mater if you nco staff nco or officer.

LeonardLawrence
01-01-08, 10:35 PM
Bobman,
I guess you got your answer. ;) There appears to be a wide opinion.

Mine as former Active Duty...

Are they Marines? Yes! Do they necessarily have the same proficiency or supervision...no.

I think one of the points in Spare Parts was that the unit was treated alot better after accomplishing some of their missions. There is an interesting second take from a embedded reporter that shows some of the officers in a darker light than the author of the book you are reading. Interesting to compare them side by side.


OH! and if you are a reserve in the toys for tots with the one chevron...don't be in the line I go to... My 3 year old will rip you a new one for being out of uniform! ;)

rheinmark187
02-05-08, 07:54 PM
Battery M, 3/14 (formally 4/14) fired more rounds in Falluja during the siege than any US battery since Vietnam. The Artillery was so accurate and fast that Mike battery was known to Marines and Soldiers in Falluja as the "Sniper Battery."(check it out in No True Glory) It was also known as having the fastest guns in the Marines Corps during OIF II. You may remember reading about it on USMC.mil.

It may suprise some to know that Mike Battery is a reserve unit. Pretty good for a battery that only goes to the field 7 times a year.

I was with Charlie Battery 1/12 during that operation and what I can tell you is this. After we went as a holding platoon for 3/5 and 1/3, I had 16 Marines from memphis mike with us. I also had a company of Iraqis that had been left with us as deadweight, because they were ineffective. When things got
complicated and one of the 3/5 SSGTs came to us, I became the senior man even though there were 3 sgts. from Mike with us.

I lost a little bit of respect for them right there. I was definitely not one of the best or experienced NCO's in my battalion, so it's not like I would have been the natural choice. With all that said, calling reservists Tampons or Not Real Marines is so outdated. It's really a sign of being a boot. The attitude
was from pre War thinking when a salt dog was someone who had a couple of MEU's or OKI UDP's or a bunch of Palms/Bragg etc. field ex's under their belt.

I would just let it slide. If you're a reservist and actually get worked up over it, you're probably a boot too. Someone with a bunch of deployments would notice the boot talking **** and call him on it.

Quinbo
06-26-08, 05:51 PM
I'm telling ya this thread was started before I joined this site but what a hoot. Still laughing about re fieldday because of ice in the freezer. What next irish pennants on your blanket? Brown baggers don't go home ... they field day the commen areas. There is a commraderie and brotherhood formed through misery and reserve units just don't walk in the same shoes.

Those lads from Ohio showed us all that a reserve Marine requires as much respect as a fighting man as anyone on this planet

Mwhite732
02-05-11, 01:17 AM
Three years later.... Im a boot ass pfc reservist. But hey, lemme say this. I wanted to serve my country. Im dedicated to the marine corps. But i really dont care much to get hazed everyday for no reason in barracks in middle of nowhere usa... So you guys can go ahead and give me attitude for being a reservist. But if thats what it takes to be productive with my youth and enjoy some time with my family when the marine corps doesnt need me. Its all good. When i get deployed im going to give just as much as my active duty peers. Shouldnt we all be *****ing at Supply and logistics or admin? Whatever the case is the other day i overheard two marines talking. They said he's not even a real marine. They were talking about me i realized. So i took it up with them. They were two little wimps who play world of warcraft in their barracks all day. Oorah usmctrollslayer213?!?! Needless to say, i ripped them a new one... We should never put parenthesis around each other. yup thats all. Stay hard Marines!

HOWARDROARK3043
02-05-11, 12:36 PM
a tampon is a tampon no matter what package you put it in

TheReservist
02-05-11, 01:56 PM
a tampon is a tampon no matter what package you put it in

way to bump a 3 year old thread with such an insightful viewpoint.... All I read is jealousy.

03Mike
02-05-11, 04:50 PM
Having spent 10 years on active duty, and 10 years with the SMCR, I find that it's mostly salty boots on their first enlistments who haven't had any exposure to reserve units that talk smack.

Mwhite732
02-05-11, 05:04 PM
rah to that sir.

Marine3451
02-06-11, 10:00 PM
Three years later.... Im a boot ass pfc reservist. But hey, lemme say this. I wanted to serve my country. Im dedicated to the marine corps. But i really dont care much to get hazed everyday for no reason in barracks in middle of nowhere usa... So you guys can go ahead and give me attitude for being a reservist. But if thats what it takes to be productive with my youth and enjoy some time with my family when the marine corps doesnt need me. Its all good. When i get deployed im going to give just as much as my active duty peers. Shouldnt we all be *****ing at Supply and logistics or admin? Whatever the case is the other day i overheard two marines talking. They said he's not even a real marine. They were talking about me i realized. So i took it up with them. They were two little wimps who play world of warcraft in their barracks all day. Oorah usmctrollslayer213?!?! Needless to say, i ripped them a new one... We should never put parenthesis around each other. yup thats all. Stay hard Marines!
Ah MOS School where PFC's think their the **** only to hit the fleet and take out my trash. Some of the finest most squared away Marines I know are admin, Logistics, and supply. I personal don't think it's the place of a boot PFC
whether active or reserves to talk down any of these MOS's. I wouldn't call Marines that play world of warcraft wimps either as I know quite a few that play that along with numerous other video games its mostly what fleet Marines do in their off time...Drink, Play video games and go to the gym. You haven't even done anything in the Marine Corps as a reservist. I give all the respect in the world to a Reservist who used to be active or a reservist that deployed. Until you reach that level i'd keep the boot rage to a minimum

Mwhite732
02-07-11, 02:54 AM
corporal i wasnt trying to say anything about myself. Im just adding to the point that some active marines think theyre better than reservists, even before they've hit the fleet or done a deployment. And about admin, log, and supply. I only meant to say that reservist marines can be infantry, recon, radio ops, and any other jobs not fair to eff with. On the warcraft bit. I was just trying to paint a picture because these marines were real geeks... And certainly not the most squared away. I appreciate that level of respect you give in a open-minded perspective toward both sides and i would love to take out your trash if you need corporal.

ammermda
02-07-11, 05:54 PM
Some of the finest most squared away Marines I know are admin, Logistics, and supply.

Marine3451, you beat me to a response; well done! I am amazed that this thread is about disrespecting fellow Marines based on active/reserve component; but then, apparently, it is OK to disrespect Marines by MOS...

Mwhite732
02-07-11, 06:41 PM
Maybe that wasn't such a proper statement. I only said it for the sake of argument. My apologies..

03Mike
02-07-11, 07:13 PM
Some of the finest most squared away Marines I know are admin, Logistics, and supply. I personal don't think it's the place of a boot PFC whether active or reserves to talk down any of these MOS's.

The fun part is, those drill instructors that scared the crap out of these young men and women at MCRD - those that were their roll models - what the hell MOSs do you think they held? By far the most squared away, professional, poster-Marine DI I ever knew (and by far, the best SNCO I ever knew) was an A-6 mechanic.

Marine3451
02-07-11, 08:08 PM
Maybe that wasn't such a proper statement. I only said it for the sake of argument. My apologies..

Your still young and you will put your boot in mouth at times. Don't let your motovation get ahead of you and say the wrong thing. Remember that alot of people you are talking to on here are active duty and reservist alike. Let me give you my perspective. I look at the Marine Corps as my career and anything I do in the Marines is to put me in a better position to better myself and my family when I get out. While I would love to kick in doors the reality is what am i going to do with that skill. Now my Chosen field is Finance. Should the Marines decide they have no use for me anymore I could very easily do my job as a civillian for any of the branchs in the DoD. Just remember no one is more or less of a Marine than anyone else. Now go forth and do great things.

Mwhite732
02-08-11, 01:24 AM
Well Spoken Corporal. Thanks for the advice. I wish you and your family the best! oorah!

Shadow308
02-08-11, 01:08 PM
It is not a question or Active or Reserve, those are just designators. It is how the individual Marine acts. I hate to say it but everyone here knows that it is the few that screw it up for the many (we have all been through bootcamp). One thing to remember, especially with the active duty Infantry (Ground-Pounders Unite), is that if we are not complaining then we are not happy. Well, when we are putting in the time being a part of our beloved Corps and we see the "weekend warriors" come in and try to act like they fit in, sorry. Just like any new addition to the unit, you have to prove yourself to us before we will accept you as one of us. That being said, we are all brothers and sisters and wouldn't be there if we were not the best of the best. Like brothers and sisters, we get into arguments about some of the stupidest things, but when someone steps up to a Marine (no matter what the designation), your brother or sister will be standing right next to you ready to monkey-stomp the SOB.

AdminAssassin
03-02-11, 05:26 PM
My best friend in the Marines, and just in general, is a Marine I met at MEPS right before we shipped off to bootcamp. He is active duty 0311 with 2/9 and I'm a reservist admin specialist but we get along great and he's one of my best friends so it doesn't really matter reserves or active. I've found that active duty has more respect for reserves if a reservist has been deployed at least once and/or is in good shape and not a bag of @$$. Personally, my recruiter told me active duty was not an option because at the time I was unmarried with a son. Also a good many reservists actually volunteer for deployments and look for every opportunity to do so. I'm actually deploying in a few months and I'm thrilled about it even though I'm an IMA and not with my unit. All in all, if a reserve Marine wants respect from his active counter-parts he controls his own destiny. Personally I don't give a f*** what people think of me unless it's Marines at my unit or someone that matters, but I do always remain respectful of all Marines and do what I'm told by higher ranking Marines, reservists or active duty.

gwladgarwr
05-10-11, 08:39 PM
Been away for a while - it's nice to see you made it over to the dark side, Lt. (Dang, that sounds weird - I remember when you were a LCpl.!)

In two deployments as a weekend warrior, I honestly couldn't tell the difference between AD and Reserve - and got them mixed up all the time, as if it really mattered. Heck, I still salute Salvation Army bell ringers and Boy Scouts.

And yeah, I was one of those pallbearers/funeral detail motherf***ers for AD, Reserve, and retiree funerals for too many funerals. It was an honor to do it.

I even had a fellow OCS candidate - an AD SSgt. and SDI who just cycled off to become an ossifer who thought I was AD and he kept calling me Corporal. Picked up Gunny in 2nd Phase, too. He didn't know I was just a nasty civilian at the time (musta been the 14 times I went through OCC before MCRD that made me salty or something :banana:.) Come to think of it, he's a year younger than me and just became a grandfather last year. So depressing - I'll go and thrash myself out beyond the treeline now. Keep yourselves occupied.

I met a nasty reservist Sergeant in Iraq in '03 who was in my MOS at the time (2147). Didn't know that, but he was also an actor in West Hollywood on the civvie side (I ran into my old roomate at Aberdeen while in Iraq who told me about that). Whooda thunk? At least he could act as if he knew how to repair an LAV (which he did, btw.)

I felt bad for the AD bubbas who transferred to the SMCR for whatever reason - AD bubbas in a unit are often tighter than their SMCR counterparts. That's understandable since that unit will travel the globe fighting and training and partying over the course of at least 2-4 years. I never hung out socially with my Reserve NCOs because we all lived too far from each other. It's different when you live on base or out in town and then deploy with the entire unit - it's like moving the entire town and plopping it down in the middle of Iraq.

But I can't say I've ever heard of a Reserve unit performing less capably than an AD unit (I know I'll hear some witnessing on THAT, but whatever.) All I know is that whether in garrison or in country or out in town, both AD and Reservists act, think, and perform more or less the same.

I finished up my Reserve duty a year ago after nine years. And it feels weird not being there now. But I'll tell you one thing: if that was "reserve" duty, it felt as if I had two full-time jobs. I just didn't get paid for most of the work I did away from drill weekend. But it's all good - at least I didn't have the CO breathing down my neck while I was doing all that boring NCO admin crap and recall rosters and frost calls and gear survey lists, etc.

It's a tired old discussion and argument. I do know, however, that I wouldn't have been able to do half of what I did while I was in if I hadn't had the civilian side of my life to draw from. How many Corporals do you know are lawyers out in the world, for example? I can count three. That kind of thing. Or officers who work as chefs or cooks out in world? I know of two. Or my old CO in LAR who was an actor/producer outside of drill weekend who had a part in Patriot Games. He's a LtCol (Reserve) now. Or the LCpl who was a Montomery County Sheriff's deputy - imagine getting pulled over by your fire time leader in Silver Spring (didn't happen to me, though.)

I went to Morocco for African Lion as a wrench turner but ended up being a French interpreter for three weeks, including briefing AD generals and colonels and the Moroccan brass and doing simultaneous interpreting. There's no way I could have done that and had the skills/experience for it if I were AD. Not bragging, but it sure came in handy. (Where's my certcom for it, btw???)

So, don't waste time arguing who sucks more. I see sucky and stellar on both sides, and when a Marine sucks enough to get court-martialled or NJPd, the reservist and the AD Marine will both get the same brig experience (or RIR). Ain't life grand? :flag:

--gwladgarwr


Shaffer- to address a couple points.

First of all- we do comprise a major component of what's sent in first, especially in non-infantry roles, such as Comm, Motor T, etc. My unit was sitting in Kuwait before the invasion started and rolled in with the rest of them. Even reserve Recon units were involved (read 'Generation Kill' by Evan Wright).

Secondly- I'm fully aware of the bullsh*t attitude that active duty gives to reservists just because they're reservists. This is about the DUMBEST thing I've ever witnessed in the Marine Corps. Why the HELL would you want to alienate Marines that may be an asset to your unit before you've even seen them perform? If you want to make an assessment of individual Marines, GO AHEAD, BUT DO IT ON THE BASIS OF THEIR PERFORMANCE, NOT YOUR OWN PREJUDICE. I can point to plenty of cases when reservists have performed just fine, and in some cases outshined Active Duty who think they've got it made and can let "those damn weekend warriors" do the work. Hell, when we went to MCT, every Marine on the meritorious board was a reservist, and my weekend warrior ass was the honor grad. Not a boast, just an illustration. Almost every Marine in my unit's been to the sandbox for AT LEAST one hitch, if not 2 or 3. There're plenty of Active Duty that've managed to avoid deployment entirely.

Reserve Marines are generally older, many have college degrees, and bring a lot of experience and COMMON SENSE to the battlefield. The Marines I work with on a regular basis are consummate professionals- even if they don't want to be in anymore, they keep their **** on lock like everyone else. Sure, there's always "the ten percent," but show me an active duty unit that doesn't have the same thing.

I'm a reservist because it's the first step what with any luck will be a long career, and the experience I've gained has already proven invaluable, and will continue to be useful once I'm active duty, be it officer or enlisted side. It's a great way for future Lieutenants to get an experience base while in college and earning their commission. Reservists are deploying left and right to fill holes so that we can send Active Duty home for some well-deserved stateside time.

People can talk all the sh*t they want about reservists, but we bleed green just like any other Marine, and believe me, when it's your turn to rotate back to the states, or your platoon comes up short, you want us there.

civgrunt05
05-11-11, 12:57 PM
One thing I'll say is that the Marines of yesteryear don't have a good perspective on the Reserve now. I'm sure it did suck back in the day when you joined the reserve to avoid the draft, but now it's pretty good.

We've had 10 years of war time activation to get better.

As for my reserve unit:
We are 03s, former tanks. A lot of the guys that were tanks hated being converted to infantry. When they were tanks they went to "tiger comp" or something of the sort and won the competition over AD Marine and AD Army units. We converted to 03 about the time I showed up and no one from the gunny down to the LCpl had any 03 experience outside of MCT. I showed up as a PFC from SOI and was asked to teach infantry stuff, lol.

Since then, the unit, or peices of it, has deployed 3 times and we are about to do #4.

As I said before -- we did suck at one time. The I&I use to be a lazy politician type and wouldn't really do **** for training. The highest guy we had on the reserve side was a SSgt so it's not like he could lock on ranges, order ammo, organize transport, etc, while trying to do his regular job. The new I&I showed up and we started training hard. Fat bodies were seperated, UAs were seperated, repeat PFT failures were gone, and drug pops were seperated.

You see, reservists WANT to be in a good unit, but it really requires a good I&I to come in and set the tone and ENFORCE the standard. If the I&I allows a 250 lb PDT failure mofo to keep coming to drill, it destroys morale.

We've also taken in our share of former AD guys. I kid you not, 65% of them sucked. We did have a few Sgts come in that really helped turn the unit around, but it's become the running joke when an AD guy joined the unit that he will be gone in a drill. It's not because we aren't out there training, maintaining discipline, and PTing, it's because I think many of them come in with the misconception that it's all a bunch of BS in the reserves and that since they were AD and are now coming into the reserve that we should make special accomodations for them in terms of when they drill and what not.

I gave a ride down to one AD radio op and the entire ride down he was like "ya Sgt, I'm so happy to be back in. I feel I have a lot of experience coming from active duty and I can really help improve this unit." We made in a FT leader, he fell out of the hump halfway in, and on the way home he asked me, "Sgt, what exactly does a fireteam leader do?" I guess in four years of AD he didn't learn what a FT does and how to hump.

Another came in, shot off at the mouth, tried to argue with the AD I&I first shirt about being UA, and stopped showing. Many others came in and never came back once they found out the reserve wasn't about grilling steaks and coming and going at will.

Still, some other AD guys have come and helped a lot, but it's truly the exception and not the norm in my unit.

We truly may not be as proficient as our AD counterparts, but I'd wager that the average IQ is at least 15 points higher in the reserve, not to mention the 4th MarDiv has guys with a lot of other life experience outside of the Corps to bring to bare. For example, we are all 03s but on deployment there was something "special" that came up and Plt. leader came to us in QRF and said, "Alright, who is a cop back home?" One of the guys that was a cop back home was able to go assist with something of importance. Many of us could have probably done it, but he brought with him not only (some) 03 skills, but was an expert in law enforcement techniques as well.

Some reserve units suck. Some reserve units are outstanding. That's all there is to it.

87davey
06-05-11, 12:57 PM
I am a reservist, mind you, before reading this, and it is based off of stereotypes, and things that I've seen:

Reserve Marines:
(Cons)
-Talk too much
-Forget a lot of mission critical things
-May make major and minor mistakes with protocol (For example, saying 'check' and 'roger' to a Sergeant Major w/o using rank)
-Might not know how to where the uniform properly
-Complain about almost everything pertaining to drill

(Pros)
-Typically more respectful to superiors
-More motivated than active counterparts
-Logical, outside-the-Marine-Corps-box thinking
-Implementation of civilian job into military can potentially greatly improve life.
-Potentially better knowledge of gear than active counterparts (for example, reservists don't have to deal with MIMMS, only with troubleshooting)
-Ability to adapt to any situation is greatly improved amongst Reserve Marines
-Lack of contact with Marines means a more focus on a 'boot camp' mentality; every reservist is always 15 min. prior to being 15 min. prior, and if he/she is not, then SNM is in the wrong.

Active Duty:

(Cons)
-Arrogant
-unable or unwilling to interact with civilians, especially overweight ones
-no situational awareness/respect/tact (for example, two LCPLs walked into the Camp Pendleton McDonald's and began monopolizing the jukebox, blasting hip-hop during chow time when everyone was with their families)
-Less respect for the ranks, potentially (My marines would never dare mouth off to an NCO, yet I see it all over active side, whether it be Yuma, Chicago, VB, Pendleton, or anywhere in between. Yes we go out and drink, but its game-face again at 0600).

(Pros)
-greater amounts of cross-training
-easier access to tactical vehicle license training, MCMAP training, etc.
-Easier to do a lateral move, go RA, request to augment
-camaraderie and loyalty to peers is high
-mandatory pt keeps them in better shape than undisciplined reservists

Conclusion:
none; I like to refer to this:

If you put 10 Marines in a room, they will form groups based on status, MOS, and a whole lot more, and they will fight to establish dominance to the point of cutting other marines down.

Put those same 10 Marines into another room with a group of 10 Soldiers, 10 Sailors, and 10 Airmen, and those 10 Marines will become best friends, and do whatever it takes to get control of the room.

Put those 40 onto a worldwide scale, and they will coordinate with each other to accomplish anything.

Radiofantry
03-21-12, 04:20 PM
Yeah, I'm bumping a thread that hasn't been posted in for a year because this topic always riles me up, and I can actually remember reading the first posts in this thread when I was a poolee a few weeks before boot camp.

By the time I hit my 4 year mark I had spent 39 of 48 months on Active Duty. I had been to Iraq, I had trained with foreign Marines (Royal and Dutch), I had been to numerous different schools, training exercises, etc. I got ****ed by cutting scores just like Active Duty Marines. Cutting scores for 0621s on Active Duty were about 300 points lower than they were for Reserves, because Reservists compete against their entire job field, so 06xx for me. What that means is that while being a Radio Operator is generally pretty miserable, which explains why so many AD ROs got out and why the cutting score is so low, being a Reservist Data Dude isn't miserable at all. I personally think that Reserves who are augmented to Active Duty should compete with the Active Duty cutting scores, or, at minimum, there ought to be some sort of bonus for those of us who actually deployed and spent time on Active Duty.

Anyhow, I gotta echo what a lot of guys have said earlier in this thread...

Reserve Strengths

Reservists are older on average, and a lot of our "boots" are in their 20's instead of late teens.
Reservists bring a whole second skillset to the unit, with there being cops, and lawyers, and construction workers, and electricians, and whatever else, these things come in handy in Iraq/Afghanistan
Unit cohesion builds quick during workups
More "outside the box" thinking, more willingness to listen to lower ranking guys because they bring a lot of life experience into thing. On active duty a LCpl is just a LCpl, in the Reserves he could be on a SWAT team