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SuNmAN
04-10-06, 08:32 PM
I hope this post doesn't get deleted because I really really would like to know what you guys think about this, even though I'm probably just going to get burned by everyone for saying this, but -

I now find it "weird"...or maybe even "amused" (I don't know any other word to use) when somebody says "IF you make it through boot camp" or "you might not make it through boot camp" or "only the best will graduate"

because to me personally even though boot camp sucked, and it was hard physically/emotionally but it was nothing that an average person shouldn't be able to complete.

The fact that washout rate is only 10% really says something. Haha, when you tell someone he might not make it through its like kinda implying he must be a bottom 10% sh*tbag...

I think we graduate a lot of people that should NEVER have graduated and should've been sent packing. Like a guy I saw when I was in boot camp, he FELL OUT of the moto-run before the EGA ceremony...no, not because he was injured, but because he sucked at running.

Then I remember at MOS school we had a few "Marines" (reluctant to call them that) that ran 30 minute PFT runs...what a disgrace.

Several "Marines" in my battalion are incapable of doing ONE pullup.

Geez, everytime I see this I think to myself - how can we make such claims like "we are elite" or "we are the finest fighting force in the world" when some members of our organization can't even pass PFT test with ludicrously low standards??

I'm pretty sure that our counterparts in Britain and Korea (Royal Marines and ROK Marines) have far higher standards for their recruits than we do.

Its probably never going to happen but I strongly believe that we need to cut our Marine Forces in half and heavily increase some of our standards, especially in the physical fitness department. I say if you can't do 6 pullups and run a mile and a half in 11 minutes you shouldn't even be ALLOWED to go to boot camp.

Anyways...Yeah I'm probably gonna get burned by everyone for saying this, and I probably don't have to right to say a lot of this stuff considering I've never been to war, but I've never ran less than a first class PFT and I was a meritorious Lance Corporal, just kind of sick of seeing "unsat" Marines.

Really like to know what the rest of you guys think !

Bige1371
04-10-06, 09:27 PM
Well I would agree with you point that Marines should be able to at least meet minimal standards. But do you think that the Pft is the most important thing about bieng a Marine? It is important but so is knowing you Mos and bieng an effective leader along with many other things. If you have a Marine that runs a 300pft but is a weak leader, has a bad attitude, or dosen't know thier Mos how effective is that Marine? On the other hand if there is a Marine who runs a 200pft and is strong in all of the above skills he is a very effective Marine.

junker316
04-10-06, 09:39 PM
SuNmAN you say " I now find it "weird"...or maybe even "amused" (I don't know any other word to use) when somebody says "IF you make it through boot camp" or "you might not make it through boot camp" or "only the best will graduate"

Your Drill Instructors aer there to see the potentual in each and every Marine. A real Marine isn't just a PT Freak with big Quads or Bi-ceps. They also know thier Primary MOS and maybe even a Secondary MOS. They are there when another Marine needs them and a brother or sister to all other Marines. Regaurdless of thier PFT score. There are still Marksmanship, Knowledge, and other issues that create Marines. Just becasue some Marine makes a 300 PFt doesn't mean that he/she is also an Expert rifleman. Or maybe they know thier MOS well enough to complete a mission. I personnally don't find it " amusing " to judge a Marine on PFT score alone. If that was the case the Marine Corps would be nearly as big as it is and the promotion system would not be needed. Have you concidered the age group as well. I went through Boot Camp at 31, Graduated, and felt proud of being a Marine. I didn't run a 16 minute 3 mile nor did I do 20 pull ups. But I had a 1st class for my age group. One thing I did have that most failed to have was prior knowledge of the games that were being played to bust you diwn and rebuild you as a Marine. I also strived to be the best marine I possible can on a daily basis. Doing what is right even though no-one is looking.

Your right...I could chew you apart for just about everything you wrote. But I won't. You will learn soon enough that everything you do and say makes you a Marine. Not just a score for a PFT.

hrscowboy
04-10-06, 10:15 PM
Another thing is where in the world do you think that your going to run 3 miles in 30 minutes with 100 lbs on your back. I dont give a rats behind how fit you are you are not going to do it. I couldnt have ran 3 miles in 30 minutes in the jungles of Vietnam it just couldnt be done No.1 the terain wouldnt let you and No.2 you might have died because of setting off booby traps. Yes i agree its good to be in good shape but i have seen the best and I mean the best that had fallen out in combat due to the heat or the terrain.
As long as you know your Mos and can do it well than I dont give a rats behind how many push-ups or how many miles you can run... enuff said

RLeon
04-10-06, 10:39 PM
I agree with SuNmAN, but you have to look at the reason a Marine perfroms poorly physically. It's al about the attitude.
I don't have a problem with Marines who aren't in the 300 club.
I never made a 300 pft...and when they got rid of kipping in pull-ups a lot 300drop a class or two.
I have a problem with Marines who do poorly physically becuase the don't care and don't put in the effort.
If they don't care enought to be in the best shape they can be, that shows a weakness in their character.
The same goes with the riflerange, some guys just aren't born marksman, that's fine, but I've known Marines who didn't care, hated the rifle range, so they didn't put in the effort to get the best score they could. They just went throught the motions and settled for the least they coul get. Often those guys would cheat by making sure thier buddies were in the butts...gee, that will really help you out in th battlefield.
It's all about the attitude.

GunnyL
04-10-06, 11:31 PM
As for the drop rate in Recruit Training, a lot of work goes into putting each and every Recruit on those yellow foot prints. Lots of Screening, EST testing and motivational classes go into each and every recruit who arrives in San Diego and PI. Marine Corps Recruiters are responsible for each Recruit they put on those yellow footprints until the day they step across the parade deck and are graduated as Marines. Our counterparts in the Air Force, Army and Navy are relieved of their responsibility when they get on the bus at MEPS. Drill Instructors are there to take the workable clay they receive in those Recruits and mold them into Marines in the course of 13 weeks. Drill Instructors don't get graded on the number of Recruits they drop from Recruit Training. Not every Recruit is going to Graduate but Drill Instructors work with the Recruiters to keep every Recruit Motivated to become a Marine. I had to call down to the Depot on several occasions and remind some of my Recruits why they were there.
It's not about who can run the fastest PFT, it's about who has the Mental Fortitude to follow through, to keep pushing when you feel like you can't push anymore. Somehow, Marines always manage to reach inside and find a little more.

GunnyL

jryanjack
04-11-06, 07:58 AM
SuNmAN,

While none of us can comment about what happened in your boot camp platoon as we weren't there, I have to disagree with you. You cannot look at any one statistic and make global assumptions. A 10% fail rate in boot is fine, given, as GunnyL pointed out, the selection criteria - recruiters are eliminating potential drops before they hit boot camp, which is what their job is. Also, how is that 10% measured - is that saying that 10% of all recruits who go to MCRD drop, or 10% from each individual platoon - without drop/adds, i.e. a recruit who starts in your platoon is dropped back to and it takes him an extra phase to graduate - is that part of the 10% or not? If I recall correctly, my platoon started with 70 recruits, and graduated 50 some odd, however not all of the 50 started with us at the same time, we had a couple come to us from PCP or were med holds.

To answer your subject question - how elite are we? We are THE ELITE, in the world, as a Corps there is no other organization of similiar size that can do what the USMC can do. And PFT scores, boot camp drop rates, rifle range scores, etc are not the true measure - its all about accomplishing the mission. In my experience, PFT scores, rifle range scores, NATOPS qual scores, etc are all barracks issues, and have their place. However, as Murphy's Law of Land Combat states - No combat ready unit has ever passed inspection and no inspection ready unit has ever passed combat. Since inception, the USMC has never not passed a combat mission - that's what makes us elite.

Old Marine
04-11-06, 09:27 AM
You have to be able to perform you duties when you arrive at the objective.
You can run to the objective and get there in 5 minutes and not perform or you can hump there and take 15 minutes and kick hell out of the enemy.

MARK MOORE
04-11-06, 09:54 AM
We are elite because of or 230 year battle record, we have earned our title as the of Devil Dog and recognized as a feared fighting force for what we have accomplished in war and not in the gym. Spend more time studing Marine Corps battle history and less time in the gym and you would understand why we are elite. ( if you have to ask that question then you don't deserve to wear the Eagle Globe & Anchor)...

outlaw3179
04-11-06, 11:33 AM
We trained with the Dutch before. Now I can honestly say all of them were PT Studs. Every single one of thees guys could do tons of pullups, all of them smoked most of us during the running part of our pft. So Physically theese guys were maniacs. We were training down in Kentucky during urban warfare in one of the armys mout towns. When it was us vs. them they were no match. The speed wich we moved and the small unit tactics wich were employed there really was no comparison between us. Marines are instilled that failure is not an option. That we locate close with and destroy. Thats the mindset that Marines have. I think that is what seperates us from all the other services and makes us a better fighting force than everyone else. Small unit leadership and the ability to make decisions regardless of rank or billet. I understand what your saying about how some Marines are not pt studs but thats fine. Those same Marines are the ones who posses the ability to not only survive in a firefight, but to aggresive fighting force and thats what is really important

rktect3j
04-11-06, 03:45 PM
You're right, I am going to burn you. But it is from one brother to another. First thing is that the average person/civilian out there doesn't have the proper motivation to get through boot camp. And those mostly get weeded out before they enter boot camp. They also do not make the grade educationally believe it or not. Last I saw 7 out of 10 young people have a high school diploma. The drop out rate is far too high here. Then you have to remember that although PT is important it is not the end all be all of the Corps. Marines are so much more then muscle and bone. Now you may be right that some Marines who graduate might ought not to have. But you are not the judge of these Marines. They made it through and are our brothers as well. Boot camp is about passing the minimum standards while attempting the maximum you can put forth to represent the Corps. Also, I see that you wrote EGA. Please refrain from doing this. I think people now write this to save time or they saw it on a jpeg or bmp file. It is "Eagle, Globe and Anchor" my frind, never EGA. If you are going to hold others up to a standard you had better be at the top of it. No short cuts. As for some Marines that you know who might have let things slip a bit, help motovate them and get them back up there. Yes they aren't poster board Marines but then neither are you if your attitude isn't one of wanting to help them along. Being a Marine isn't about dropping dimes on people, that is for certain. Don't try to make yourself look better by pointing out others faults. If PT is your thing, great. If there isn't enough of it I can only suggest you join Force Recon. I was in 1st Light Armored Recon and can tell you that 3 mile runs don't exist except for the PFT. Every other day was no less then 5 mile runs after about 45-60 minutes of calistetics (sp). I dropped back on several occasions myself but never out fortunatly because I had Marines trying to motovate me the entire time.

RLeon
04-12-06, 03:33 AM
That's pretty harsh. <br />
Esprit de Corps, Intestinal Fortitude and our high Standards are what make us elite. PART of our high standards is physical fitness... those standards are there for a reason....

bugs
04-12-06, 06:36 AM
Sunman,
Do you understand what being a Marine is all about yet? During prac, learning about our great history and traditions, I dont ever re-call the mentioning of how our past brothers over the years, have performed at such levels as you almost suggest (dont want to put words in your mouth) that we have always adhered to. There was no mention on any of our historic brothers and their performance in a pft?
I agree with the other Marines here, it's up to you and our other brothers to motovate these other Marines that have a hard time with their pft, humps, whatever they may seem to fall a little short on, remember we take care of our own, race, age, sex, or pft doesnt matter, we are all brothers and no one is held any higher than anyone else, yes some have higher ranks, but thats it!

Just my thoughts is all.........

redneck13
04-12-06, 06:53 AM
:evilgrin: :flag: If you got it in your head that if a person can't lift 450-600lbs off some bench, or can't do one pushup, or run 3 miles in 17min. it don't mean that that Marine cain't perform when it really counts. As Cowboy said, in the jungle's, I never could run very fast, but I got the gitty up and go as my rear end was on the line....And I ain't never seen anyone outrun a bullet, or muscles save them.
It it "GREAT TO BE IN SHAPE" yes. Don't tear down "MY BELOVED CORPS" because some Marine's don't suit your cup of tea. I'll take any Jyreen, fat, slim, otherwise into battle, because I know they are the one, the only, the best, and The "ELITE", and we'll get 'r done my Friend. SF, that is all..Cary on Maggot's.

jryanjack
04-12-06, 07:21 AM
RLeon,

You have a valid point - all Marines should be held to the minimum standards, and from my experience they are. My issue with the OP was that it implies that a) our standards are not high enough, and b) that most Marines are not meeting the too low standards that we already have. And that, from my point of view, is not an accurate statement.

However, the question posed by Sunman was have we ceased to be elite - and my answer is no - we as a Corps, have not ceased to become elite. Our elite status is not a result of average PFT scores, its a result of our battle history, our mission, and confirmed by our current battlefield performance.

There will always be the 10% we all heard about in boot camp and probably experienced at one time or another in the Fleet, however, we are not defined by the 10%, we are defined by the 90%.

tflhndn
04-12-06, 08:36 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/launchPage.html?040506/040506_brown_bootcamp&Boot%20Camp%20Lite%3F&FNL&Kinder%20and%20gentler%20boot%20camp%20for%20milit ary%20recruits&Only%20on%20FOX&-1&Boot%20Camp%20Lite%3F&Video%20Launch%20Page

As long as we don't get to this point then life will be good.

If Marines weren't the "Premier fighting force" I would not have joined, I have always believed in either being the best I can at whatever I do. I have never been more proud to belong to an organization as I am the Marine Corps. The Marine Corps is what it is because of those who served before and those serving now. Maybe you should adjust your sight picture and focus on the positives.

MillRatUSMC
04-12-06, 08:53 AM
What makes Marines "Elite"?

Might the reason be that Marines can reach within and do things that some think are or were impossible.
Looking at men such as "Mike Clausen", one would think that he reached within to do what he did one day in 1970 in Vietnam.
When the sane thing to do, was to stay within the safety of "Blood, Sweat and Tears" as he was ordered.
Than we can look to my Recon Platoon Leader till fate stepped in, 1st Lt. Frank S. Reasoner, the sane thing would have been to seek cover till the firing was less than what it was, but his radioman, was getting hit, time and again.
Did he reach within, and went to the aid of his radioman resulting in his death.
Before that we had Marines written off in the Chosen Reservior in North Korea.
They fought their way out to the sea, when many had given them no hope.
We been bless by great leaders, both Officer and Enlisted.
Are these things that make the Marine Corps elite among military bodies in this world.
Might it be the respect given us by our enemies, now and in our past...just my thoughts on what makes Marines elite...

JMartinez
04-12-06, 11:45 AM
Sunman,

I think you set yourself up for a lot of criticism. Here is my opinion. Number one a marine is not just all 300 PFT score. I never scored a 300. I was not a 0311 but I enjoyed being part of the crew served weapons team 50 cal MD, M60, I even carried the SAW M249. I was very efficient with those weapons. I made it a point to learn everything about those important weapons that are part of the marine rifle squad. I was a 3043 cross trained as a 3051 and had a secondary MOS of 0411. I was also cross trained in the art of Infantry by many different 0311's. I truly enjoyed the field training because it is part of being a Marine! The Marine Corps is a brotherhood that can not be explained to any plain civilian. Marines are different because we are willing to die for our brother Marines. It does not matter if they are light green, medium green or dark green Marines. We are all Marines. My D.I.'s told me from the very first day of training we are all brothers now regardless of color! I was not fastest, nor the strongest Marine. I was and still am a loyal Marine. We are elite because ready to serve our country. I knew this one Marine who won a meritorious promotion to corporal he blew everybody away ( temporarily) but , when we were deployed to Operation Desert Shield/ Desert Storm he turned Yellow enough said on that. Every Marine has their strong and weak areas. Semper Fi Marines!:flag: :thumbup:

hrscowboy
04-12-06, 01:34 PM
Sgt Martinez

Please understand i am not questioning your role in combat.. but i can tell you first hand that i seen alot of fear in Marines when the first toll of incoming started and then in the fire fights. I am not afraid to say that i wasnt scared too in my first fire fight with the enemy and anyone that says they werent is a damnnn liar, or needs a shrink. after the first fire fight was over and i seen the death of the enemy and my own brothers all it did then was cause hatred then everything you where taught kicks in. you then realize its the enemy or you that goes home in the body bag.. Semper Fi my brother and thank you for your service...

FistFu68
04-12-06, 04:17 PM
:usmc: WHEN THE ****,HIT'S THE FAN~IT'S NOT GONNA MAKE A FLYING ****,HOW MANY PULLUP'S,HOW FAST YOU RUN,SWIM,OR WHATEVER,FLEX! IT'S HOW YOU AND YOUR BROTHER MARINE'S,DO WHATEVER,IT TAKES TO GET 'ER DONE!YOU ARE ONLY AS STRONG AS YOUR WEAKEST LINK! NEVER LEAVE A FELLOW MARINE BEHIND,LIVE OR DEAD! UNTIL THEN ASSUME THE POSITION YOUNG BUCK~AND CRANK OUT A MILLION MARINE,NOW!!!! 10/4 :usmc:

lprkn
04-12-06, 09:43 PM
Physicality counts for a lot in my book. Not everything, but a lot. If the Marine next to you can't fireman's carry your a$$ out of the line of fire if you get shot, then he's not worth too much to you at that juncture, is he?

RLeon
04-13-06, 12:34 AM
Physicality counts for a lot in my book. Not everything, but a lot. If the Marine next to you can't fireman's carry your a$$ out of the line of fire if you get shot, then he's not worth too much to you at that juncture, is he?
No, that's when Marine Corps history kicks in and saves your life...:D
Seriously, there's no such thing as a perfect Marine (Sergeant Major Daniel Daly was close), we all have our strengths and weaknesses...All I ask of my fellow Marines is to give 100% in every facet of being a US Marine. Don't just go through the motions, actually care.
Semper Fi.
Out.

Camper51
04-13-06, 11:20 AM
It is not the physical attributes that make Marines what they are. It is the MENTAL attributes, the attitude of CAN DO, WILL DO, that makes a Marine a Marine. Marines have proven this fact over and...

lovdog
04-13-06, 12:18 PM
Hey, its Thursday, gotta add my two cents!! I do agree that being a Marine - you should be fairly physical fit, it goes with the territory. I have also felt that there should have been higher standards of training for the Marine Corps as a whole. Even though alot of us did things on our own - like run around the compound or lifted weights, as long as you passed the PFT every year - that seemed to pacify the Powers that may be!! Sure, it would be nice to have additional training - like the Recon type where they run 100 miles before breakfast, do 500 pullups with one arm, etc. But, for most Marines, if you are a grunt - its about 6 months of training - then its combat time!! Not much time or training involved to get one ready for a war. Maybe its different now, maybe they give you a little more time to get prepared?
Should there be added training for the "Elite Forces"? Dam* right!! Every Marine should be excellent at hand to hand combat - even schooled in "Dirty Karate"! Every Marine should be jump trained, every Marine should be good at water survival techniques, weapons and leadership! The reason they aren't is because it all costs money! Lots of money - that - with more & more cutbacks in the military budget every year - you just can't afford to add the additional training. So, you try to take the ones that you get the biggest bang for your buck. In the Marines - you take the ones that are in good shape, smart and put them in Recon. You take the ones that are good in math & put them in artillery, you take the educated ones & put them in avionics with the aircraft, etc. Not everyone is cut out to do all of these jobs, but without all Marines doing their jobs - we wouldn't be classified as the "Elite Force" that we are- land, sea & air. You can have a ka-zillion muscles, but it takes a well placed artillery round or a 500# bomb sometimes to get a ground force out of trouble. That what makes the Marines special - they are willing to risk their lives - so that others may live! Think about it, of all of the awards that have been won by Marines thru the years - the ones that mean the most are those that have been achieved by Marines risking their own lives to save the lives of other Marines. No greater gift can be given. Even the Medal of Honor has been bestowed upon a former "Shi*bird from the Viet Nam War Era - he was a reject by Marine standards, but the many Marines that he later saved thanked God and the Corps that they let him graduate from the Depot!! SF

redneck13
04-13-06, 03:55 PM
:evilgrin: :flag: :iwo: I think or hope this Marine who started this "Thread" now see's just how far off base he is in his thinking. Many of you have made some very good, excellent points, and I applaud you for them. Being a Marine? That's just it, "Elite!!" P*****a Fat S***bird off, out of shape, looks terrible, or a skinny weak looking, sloppy dressed, (in uniform/out of uniform)S****Bird, or "ANY MARINE" and see what you get? He may not whip your butt....however, you'll damn sure know you been in a fight to the end. Then when you think it's over? You made a big mistake....cause he's gonna come back, you're gonna have to try again. The problem is.....LOL....he's liable to have something you can't wash off he will take you down with. That's how "ALL MARINE'S" do. "SEMPER-FI-DO OR DIE!!" That might be "old Corps" to some, maybe some have never heard of it, but, it says it all....So young Marine, read these and understand, that those of us with a few more year's under our belt's as Marines, we've been there, we've done that, and we "KNOW!!" SEMPER-FI TO YA, AND OOOORAAAH!!!! Now carry on Maggot.

FistFu68
04-13-06, 04:25 PM
:evilgrin: MAYBE FLEX,HAS NOTHING BETTER TO DO AFTER PUMPIN! :evilgrin:

redneck13
04-13-06, 04:34 PM
Amen brother, Amen....OOORAAAHHH Semper-fi, do or die!!

rb1651
04-13-06, 08:08 PM
Sunman, You make a valid point, as others have said on this thread, Marines need to be in shape, no doubt. However, I'm wondering why you would question the fact that we are greatest fighting force that the world has seen in the modern age. As far as I'm concerned, you are a "student/weekend warrior" (to quote your profile) so you have not had the experience of working with other countries elite fighting forces. No disrespect meant here, but until you have, don't idolize their physical prowness. There's more to winning in war than looking like Mr. Universe. I personally never scored a 300 on my PFT, never could shoot the a** of a fly at 300 yards, but I could da** sure my job. The point being, my young friend, while we are not all perfect, when we are all combined, air, land, and sea, we become the Greatest Fighting Force the modern era has ever seen!!

SuNmAN
04-14-06, 01:33 PM
I really wasn't talking about having a 300 PFT. I was more of talking about being blatantly out of shape while claiming to be a US Marine. I think it tarnishes our reputation.

SuNmAN
04-14-06, 01:42 PM
I think you guys got me wrong in this thread...

I didn't say anything about expecting everyone having a 300 PFT. I personally don't have a 300 PFT even though it is a goal I'd like to achieve in the very near future.

I'm just talking about seeing dirtbag "Marines" who are blatantly overweight and out of shape and couldn't give a rats ass about their physical incompetency. Before I joined I've only met a few Marines, and each and every one of them impressed me by the way they carried themselves, their physical prowress and their combat experiences...

but then after I join I have NCOs who may know their MOS pretty well but can barely shoot a "marksman" and barely get 3 pullups and finish the run on the PFT. Then I question myself...what happened to the Marine Corps I admired for so long?

Personally one day if I'm a platoon commander I will make damn sure that every one of my men can at least DOUBLE the minimum standards for a PFT test. (Whats that, like 6 pullups and 80 or so crunches?) and run at least 23 minutes.

SuNmAN
04-14-06, 01:46 PM
No, that's when Marine Corps history kicks in and saves your life...:D
Seriously, there's no such thing as a perfect Marine (Sergeant Major Daniel Daly was close), we all have our strengths and weaknesses...All I ask of my fellow Marines is to give 100% in every facet of being a US Marine. Don't just go through the motions, actually care.
Semper Fi.
Out.

I'm sorry for triple posting but I agree 100% with you.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if you are blatantly fat and out of shape, you obviously are not giving enough effort. Not everyone can get a 300 PFT, but I guarantee you everyone can put forth enough training and effort to at least not look fat and out of shape and pass the PFT easily.

Just sick of seeing people who don't care.

david43844
04-14-06, 01:54 PM
Sunman, Your just full of yourself! And will fail when it comes to killing someone.To all the other responders here, I say AMEN BROTHERS

redneck13
04-14-06, 02:18 PM
:mad: :flag: As a former Drill Instructor young Marine.....I was given all the weak, the heavy's, and before they graduated they could do just about a perfect PFT. This however does not mean that once they leave boot, they won't go back to their original state. Yes Marines should be in some good conditioning.....when I was in Nam, I had in my team men who couldn't do like you're suggesting. Yet, they were the best, and I could depend on them to fight their A***off. When the adren. starts pumping?, you'd be amazed at what a Marine can do.
When I was on the Drill Field.....I never scored close to 300. I ran 3 miles in 20 minute's. Not 18 as a perfect score back then. I did however top the pull up's, sit up's. I also broke two records on the rifle range, one with an M-14 one with an M-16. This didn't make me a good Marine. It just was part of being a Marine. When I was in Okinawa?, I wasn't allowed to go home when my time came, one I was on a legal hold (had to give a deposition) two, I was overweight, because "I WAS NOT REQUIRED TO DO ANY PT." However...I did begin a training regimine with another in shape Marine. And in no time I was running 15 miles non stop, I lost 100 lbs. It was up to me, not somebody telling me, even though I got told later. From my experiences in the Corps? I went to two Sheriff's Academies. Para-Military. I smoked, drank. When we ran every morning? I outran all but one. The T.O.'S (training officer's) who were in great shape, couldn't believe a Man of my age could beat them. In a grunt outfit? If you ever get there, you'll do PT. You will get in shape. As far as comment's about dirtbags, other making a bad image for the Corps? It may. Yet, the person you're talking about is for a fact a Marine, and should be treated, talked about in that manner. Your observation's don't matter. It's the fact, "THEY EARNED THE RIGHT TO WEAR THE EGA." How they look, is the problem of their Unit's commander's, SNCO'S, squad leader, plt. Sgt., Plt Commander. So get off it. Will ya? Respect, r.e.s.p.e.c.t. "ALL MARINES"!!
You can do all you want as a Plt Commander/Drill Instructor, once they are gone?, it isn't up to you anymore. You will not be welcomed with the attitude you're displaying in your post, why? Because everyone will think of you like you think your S****don't stink. Believe me when I say this, I've seen it. If you go about your conditioning, without any comment's to the rest of your outfit?, you will be setting an example, which in turn, the men of your unit may/may not want to follow. Learn from us that have been there, done that, seen that, know what we're talking about!! Just be a "MARINE", help out your fellow Marine, do your job, keep your mouth shut, and you'll do fine. SF Wishing you the best.

Camper51
04-14-06, 02:45 PM
Well said, Wind, Well said.

Semper Fi

:usmc: :flag:

SuNmAN
04-14-06, 02:46 PM
Sunman, Your just full of yourself! And will fail when it comes to killing someone.To all the other responders here, I say AMEN BROTHERS

I'm sorry Staff Sergeant I didn't mean to come across that way. Some things are harder to express online then they are in real life.

usmc85204
04-14-06, 03:03 PM
Not sure about all the physical and mental atributes needed,but I know this:I am sixty years old and havn't fired a shot in anger in forty years. But, I would pick up a rifle and walk point with fellow marines today if necessary. Un like the other branches of the armed forces. We are and forever will be brothers. I am a Marine and I would give my life for the Corp and my brothers.Maybe that is part of the eliteness of the Corp. Just an old grunts musings......:usmc:

redneck13
04-14-06, 03:24 PM
Well put to all. I hope this young Marine will get the real picture and give up his quest to change how the Corps is suppose to be in his eye's. This imperfect world, is also part of the Corps. Yet if we ran the world, "IT'DA BE ONE HELL OF A BETTER PLACE." I thank you. I thank the Corps for giving me what I treasure and hold dear in my heart, all Marine's know what I mean. I also will walk point, tec, for any Marine, anytime, any place. Semper Fi to all. Now let's carry on, Maggot's. OOORAAAHHH!!!

rktect3j
04-14-06, 07:01 PM
I would rather be ina fighting hole with a Marine with PMA (positive mental attitude) versus the over muscle bound 300 PFTer any day. I want that can do spirit. Not the I was bred to run spirit.

RLeon
04-15-06, 01:08 AM
I would rather be ina fighting hole with a Marine with PMA (positive mental attitude) versus the over muscle bound 300 PFTer any day. I want that can do spirit. Not the I was bred to run spirit.
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I think you guys are missing the point.
What Sunman unsuccessfully tried to put across in his OP was that there are Marines who are not up to standards because they don't care.
IMO if a Marine isn't giving 100% in his duties which includes being in shape he's basically disrespecting the memory of our past Leathernecks and the Corps. If a guy can't get off his a$$ and show the initiative to get in shape he's putting himself in the company of that Marine who hides in the head to avoid working, the perenial skater who gaffs off all responsibily.

FistFu68
04-15-06, 06:14 AM
:evilgrin: I NEVER MET~OR SERVED WITH ANY MARINE,WHILE OUR ASS WAS IN THE GRASS WHO DIDN'T CARRY HIS WEIGHT!IT'S A FUNNY THING THAT SOMETHING LIKE COMBAT~GIVE'S US THE ULTIMATE GUT CHECK.MY BROTHER'S IN INDIA CO. 3/26 1968 TOOK EVERYTHING THE GOOK'S THREW AT US!WE WALKED TALL~IT WAS AN HONOR TO HAVE FOUGHT WITH THESE BRAVE MARINE'S!ALL GAVE SOME,SOME GAVE ALL. HONOR THE WARRIOR, NOT THE WAR! MR.JACK G.(A.K.A.RICKY RECON'68) INDIA 3/CHARLE'S! OORAH!:evilgrin: :thumbup:

jryanjack
04-15-06, 07:26 AM
I have a question - are we talking about an active duty combat ready unit here?

Not that it really matters, however, my thought (and hope!) would be that with perhaps a few exceptions for Marines who are in the process of being "trained" or out processed, I do not know of any active duty unit where it would be possible for a Marine to continually not meet the minimum standards. Maybe I'm not aware of how a reserve unit runs, however, I could see how a Marine could get away with not meeting minimum standards if they are in the reserves and their unit has not stood up for a while.

yellowwing
04-15-06, 08:15 AM
We had a guy in our MOS School that was just nasty and unsat. This little dumpy guy gaffed off getting a haircut for inspection. Instead he took a bic razor and shaved above his ears. It looked...

Les Elkins
04-15-06, 11:39 AM
I really wasn't talking about having a 300 PFT. I was more of talking about being blatantly out of shape while claiming to be a US Marine. I think it tarnishes our reputation.


You are putting too much on just personal apperance. Like many of these other OLDTIMERS on here we have served and trained with what you are calling the elite of these other countries. They to have there overweight and out of shape. But having worked with the Brits, and Aussies, and the Koreans it is all about the mindset of the Marine. The US Marines are much more ready and willing to do WHATEVER it takes to get the job done.
I understand that you are a reservist and I respect the fact that you are a brother Marine, and that you are willing to serve when called, however, do not go into action putting all of your thoughts into someone not being able to do there job because by your standards they are out of shape, because if you do that then you are the one not doing your job.

The Brits and Aussies I've been with think that training to become a US Marine is much harder than there training. So it appears to be the age old problem of the grass is always greener.

ElderCreature
04-15-06, 12:22 PM
For what it is worth the physical part of the Marine is important but more important is the mind set of that Marine in respect to those around him and to himself.

SuNmAN
04-15-06, 02:08 PM
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I think you guys are missing the point.
What Sunman unsuccessfully tried to put across in his OP was that there are Marines who are not up to standards because they don't care.
IMO if a Marine isn't giving 100% in his duties which includes being in shape he's basically disrespecting the memory of our past Leathernecks and the Corps. If a guy can't get off his a$$ and show the initiative to get in shape he's putting himself in the company of that Marine who hides in the head to avoid working, the perenial skater who gaffs off all responsibily.

thanks Corporal thats pretty much what I was trying to say. I just feel like I've seen too many of such Marines that don't care and do not put up the effort, especially to stay in shape and thus I think we should reduce our force to below 100,000 by making our initial training a lot tougher. Its just my two cents though...just stimulating some conversation here.

SuNmAN
04-15-06, 02:14 PM
I understand that you are a reservist and I respect the fact that you are a brother Marine, and that you are willing to serve when called, however, do not go into action putting all of your thoughts into someone not being able to do there job because by your standards they are out of shape, because if you do that then you are the one not doing your job.



as for being a reservist...I don't even go around telling people I'm a Marine. If someone asks I'll tell them I'm serving on reserve duty, but I just feel like I haven't accomplished a damn thing except finish my initial training. So I'm not really going around flaunting or anything...

redneck13
04-15-06, 05:47 PM
:mad: :evilgrin: This statement of yours, has really hit me the wrong way, and this will be my final reply, because, "YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND ENOUGH ALREADY." YOU HAVE MANAGED TO MAKE SOME OF US VERY UPSET. I THINK IT WISE OF YOU TO MOVE ON. YES YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO YOUR OPINION, PIN HEAD...BUT, YOU'VE SAID IN THIS LATEST OP, AN OPINION YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. ALL I CAN SAY TO YOU FINALLY IS THIS....IF YOU HAVEN'T GOTTEN THE PICTURE OF WHAT BEING A MARINE IS? YOU NEVER WILL, I.E. ALL THE POST/REPLIE'S TO YOUR THREAD, HAVE/SHOULD HAVE TAUGHT YOU SOMETHING. I THINK YOU'RE TO MUCH INTO ONESELF TO BE TAUGHT. THAT IS ALL...CARRY ON MAGGOT'S.
thanks Corporal thats pretty much what I was trying to say. I just feel like I've seen too many of such Marines that don't care and do not put up the effort, especially to stay in shape and thus I think we should reduce our force to below 100,000 by making our initial training a lot tougher. Its just my two cents though...just stimulating some conversation here.

ElderCreature
04-15-06, 05:58 PM
I agree that someone has lost sight of the whole picture and thinking of number 1
Semperfi:iwo:

Phantom Blooper
04-15-06, 06:03 PM
as for being a reservist...I don't even go around telling people I'm a Marine.


I wake up late at night
Makin' sure the world is still by my side
I try hard not to make a sound
Can't help my heart it just beats so loud
So full of love for my Marine Corps that I could burst
The way I feel about you the Marines I wanna just

Scream at the top of my lungs
Tell the whole world how much I love it,day in day out 24/7
Gimme some PT,good for you,good for me!
Shout it from the highest mountain
Let 'em know I found the job of my dreams
It's pure electricity, my Marine Corps gets to me
Like nobody else could
It feels so good I could scream

How can I sleep with her right here?
Because I'm walking my post from flank to flank.
Moonlight falls across the ground
I fight the urge building up again to grab my 16 to fight and win the battle for my fallen friends.
But it's too late I feel the rush
Runnin' through my body I wanna just

Scream at the top of my lungs
Tell the whole world how much I love the Marine Corps way of life!
Shout it from the highest mountain
Let 'em know I found the job of my dreams
It's pure electricity , she gets me going 24/7
Like nobody else could
It feels so good I could scream

Scream at the top of my lungs
Tell the whole world how much I love her
Scream at the top of my lungs
Tell the whole world how much I love her
Olive drab,camouflage,scarlet & gold...looking good!
Shout it from the highest mountain
Let 'em know I found the job of my dreams
It's pure electricity , she gets my blood boiling
Like nobody else could
It feels so good I could
Shout it from the highest mountain!

Can't help myself I gotta
Here it comes, I wanna scream
I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself
Scream....Scream....
Makes me wanna scream baby
Here it come baby, I'm gonna
Scream, yeah
You scream too if you feel the need to,Scream Marine Corps!
Marine don't be afraid!
Swagger down the block looking tall shouting Marine Corps,My Corps to all!

Semper-Fi! "Never Forget" Chuck Hall :evilgrin:

ElderCreature
04-15-06, 06:07 PM
Marines are Marines Reserve or Active, Young or Old still a Marine That is what we are Marines

arnoldyG/2/5
04-17-06, 06:46 AM
If I am correct Sunman you are a reservist? How much Fleet time have you had?

You should be commended for expecting a lot from the Corps but here are a few words of wisdom for someone who expects to be an Officer of Marines. One of the best NCO's I ever worked with couldn't run worth a shi*, he ran 22min 3 mi 14 p/u 80 situps, but he could hump your as* into the dirt and when it came to training in the field he was one of the best. I went toe to toe with my platoon commander as this Marine's squad leader to get him promoted! The reason I had to get into it with my platoon commander was b/c he wanted to non-rec him for promotion b/c he wasn't a strong runner.

arnoldyG/2/5
04-17-06, 06:48 AM
cont'd

Our standards are the highest of any fighting force in the world and our record speaks for itself. You still have a lot to learn about what it means to be a Marine!!!

Camper51
04-17-06, 10:02 AM
We are all Marines!! in 20 years AFTER your service to the US and the Corps is over with you may finally understand what it really means to have held the title "UNITED STATES MARINE" This title is taken lightly by NONE of us and as is evidenced by thes posts we are all extremely proud of that title.

Semper Fi
Carry on!!
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