Noncitizen sues to join Corps

[thedrifter]

Noncitizen sues to join Corps

Illegal immigrant tried to sign up, avoid deportation

By Gayle S. Putrich
Times staff writer

If the Corps is always looking for willing recruits, especially in a time of war, why should a Texas man have to sue the Defense Department for the right to join the Marine Corps? Probably because he’s not a U.S. citizen.

Juan Humberto Cortes Hutrera entered the United States illegally from Mexico when he was 12 years old with his parents, who are also undocumented immigrants. Now, he wants to serve his “new country” as a Marine.

According to the lawsuit filed Oct. 31 with the U.S. District Court, Southern District of Texas, Cortes was ordered to appear in immigration court on June 24, 2004, to begin the deportation process. Cortes’ appeal of the 2004 deportation decision is pending.

It was more than a year after deportation proceedings began — in September 2005, three months after his graduation from Los Fresnos High School near Brownsville, Texas — when Cortes tried to join the Marines. While the lawsuit claims he met all the usual requirements and that recruiters wanted to enlist him, it was not possible due to Cortes’ immigration status.

Marlene Dougherty, Cortes’ lawyer in Brownsville, said it’s not her client’s fault he isn’t a citizen, and that as far as Cortes is concerned, he is an American who wants to serve his country.

“He didn’t break a law coming here. He was brought. He was a child. And now this is his home. He just wants to serve his country,” Dougherty said. She would not make him available for comment.

But the military looks at an applicant’s immigration status in a far more cut-and-dried manner than lawyers: If you don’t have legal immigration status, you can’t join the military, recruiters say.

The Marine Corps does not require a particularly long list of documents to enlist. A high school diploma or equivalent is necessary. So is proof of age, such as a birth certificate, and proof of U.S. citizenship. If a prospective Marine is not a citizen, recruiters explained, he must at least be in the process of becoming one and have either a green card or a valid I-551 form from Citizenship and Naturalization Services to prove it. There is no “work-around” for noncitizens.

Dougherty said recruiting regulations can be relaxed in times of war, and that an executive order from President Bush making that possible has already been signed. But Executive Order 13269, which is referenced in the lawsuit, only speeds up the naturalization process for “aliens and noncitizen nationals serving in an active-duty status” who have served for at least a year during a time of war or conflict. The order also sets Sept. 11, 2001, as the start date for a time of conflict. However, the law still requires that applicants for citizenship be a “lawful permanent resident,” something Cortes is not.

Dougherty said exceptions to recruiting requirements should be made only in times of conflict and on a case-by-case basis.

She believes her client should be one of those exceptions.

“We’re not looking to open the door to everybody,” said Dougherty, who said she also understands that physical requirements must be met and national security must be taken into consideration.

“Hopefully we can reach an agreement and get him enlisted,” she said. “That’s all he wants.”

[jgorosco]

This lawyer doesn't want to open the door for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS but doesn't only just take one lawsuit that opens the door for the rest of law breakers, no matter who it is. If he wants to be a MArine then go through the immigration process. I am sick and tired of illegals expecting everything be given to them. If they don't like the treatment or the dislike of them being here ILLEGALLY then the simple solution is keep their AZZ in their home country. My 2 cents from an American.

[ringoffire]

Why doesn't this lawyer help her client become a citizen and get that process going, instead of suing the Marine Corps?

[BOOGIEMAN44]

I Do Beleive This Lawyer Really Don't Give A Rats Azz About Her So Called "client" But More Than Making A Name For Herself, And Both Off You Are Right, All He Has To Do Is Become A Citizen, It May Not Be His Fault For Being Here, But He Is Here, So Stop The Complaing, Become A Citizen, And Then Do Your Thing, And Stop Trying To Take A Short Cut Into The Marine Corps, If He Wants In, Fine, Then Let Him Work And Earn His Way In, Like The Rest Of The Immigrants Who Came Before Him.... No Free Rides.

[Vova]

I'm 19 and I am from Ukraine. I'd like to join USMC Infantry VERY MUCH but unfortunately I can't do it without Green Card. It's very hard to get a Green Card. It's not fair. If person really wants to join the MILITARY just let this person do it, if this person satisfy your requirments of course. Everybody needs just a chance to join.

[Wyoming]

I'm 19 and I am from Ukraine. I'd like to join USMC Infantry VERY MUCH but unfortunately I can't do it without Green Card. It's very hard to get a Green Card. It's not fair. If person really wants to join the MILITARY just let this person do it, if this person satisfy your requirments of course. Everybody needs just a chance to join.

It's not fair? What isn't fair? Complying with the laws of this Country?

You contradicted yourself, when you say - let this person do it, if this person satisfy your requirments of course - simply implies that the laws must be obeyed.

I suppose, according to you and your thinking, any rag-headed sumbish could show up, illegally, and join the USMC.

Go forth grasshopper, quit your *****ing, get a Green Card, come this way, and prove you want to be a Marine!!

[hrscowboy]

Orahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh big Al

[Vova]

I'm coming this way! It's a difficult way. But I have no choice. It could be much easier without some laws.
I won't be better than now with Green Card, and I won't be worse without it... I will do my job as good as I can! no matter how I joined, with Green Card or without it.
It's my opinion.

[Mikewebe]

While I agree with your opinions on illegals, I don't want to see a kid punished for the deeds of his parents. And yes his lawyer should be pursuing his change in status not suing.

[FutureBootLouie]

I say let him serve. In fact, make it so all illegal aliens who have completed 4 years of honorable service in a combat arms MOS are immediately granted amnesty.

Kinda like a "starship troopers" deal.

[FutureBootLouie]

I Do Beleive This Lawyer Really Don't Give A Rats Azz About Her So Called "client" But More Than Making A Name For Herself, And Both Off You Are Right, All He Has To Do Is Become A Citizen, It May Not Be His Fault For Being Here, But He Is Here, So Stop The Complaing, Become A Citizen, And Then Do Your Thing, And Stop Trying To Take A Short Cut Into The Marine Corps, If He Wants In, Fine, Then Let Him Work And Earn His Way In, Like The Rest Of The Immigrants Who Came Before Him.... No Free Rides.


you obviously have no clue what it takes to become a US citizen. I do.

You can't just "become a citizen" like you apply for a job at McDonalds. The process is unbelievably arduous and painstaking if you don't have the right means.

[jrhd97]

Any one know the outcome of this story? I know the courts are slow, but it's been 2 and a half years, surely a decision has been made.

[FutureBootLouie]

Any one know the outcome of this story? I know the courts are slow, but it's been 2 and a half years, surely a decision has been made.


10 bucks he got deported anyways

[OLE SARG]

It's a long process agreed BUT it does cull the chance of having a guy joining our Corps who is a hardcore murdering azzhole.
You're right, this azzhole lawyer needs to be getting his client LEGAL and then let the client worry about getting in our Corps!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

[Wyoming]

I'm coming this way! It's a difficult way. But I have no choice. It could be much easier without some laws.
I won't be better than now with Green Card, and I won't be worse without it... I will do my job as good as I can! no matter how I joined, with Green Card or without it.
It's my opinion.

These are OUR laws.

Live with them.

Or join your OWN countries OWN military service.


You are showing signs of being a 10%er and requiring a stress card.

[FutureBootLouie]

It's a long process agreed BUT it does cull the chance of having a guy joining our Corps who is a hardcore murdering azzhole.
You're right, this azzhole lawyer needs to be getting his client LEGAL and then let the client worry about getting in our Corps!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,


Really? As if being a native born American or a Green Card immigrant lessens the chance that someone is a "hardcore murdering azzhole"?? Our of the murders and violent crimes committed in the US annually, how many were by illegal aliens and how many were by Americans?

This guy is trying to become legal by serving in the Corps. Shows how difficult it is to legally immigrate to this country, that his lawyer believes he has a better chance at fighting for his client to serve in the Marine Corps than to become a legal immigrant through other means.

This kid was brought to this country by his parents when he was 12. He did not ask to become an illegal alien. Now that he has lived in this country for most of his life and developed a loyalty to her, he wants to serve in the Marines, DURING A TIME OF WAR may I add, in order to pay his dues for a shot at the American dream.

You guys keep saying - its the law, rules are rules.

Perhaps think about it in Marine Corps terms? How many of you, as an NCO, SNCO or Officer, have ever bent the rules in some way, shape or form in order to take care of one of your Marines?


These are OUR laws.

Live with them.

Or join your OWN countries OWN military service.


You are showing signs of being a 10%er and requiring a stress card.


The guy wants to be a US Marine. Its not easy to get a Green Card. I had one, I know.

I first came to this country with my mother when I was 3, ever since then we traveled around the world, moving with my mother as her job demands.

There are several ways to immigrate to this country legally, its a complicated process but these are the general routes most take:

1. Marry an American
2. Political Asylum/Refugee status
3. Have a company sponsor you, which they will need to prove that you have a unique skill set not easily filled by an American, and apply for an H-1B work visa for you. If the work visa is granted, after a certain period the employer can sponsor you to apply for a Green card, but it is to the employer's benefit not to do this, as you cannot work anywhere else with an H-1B visa except the company of sponsorship, once you stop working for said company, you must leave the country, and employers can use that to blackmail their foreign employees.

Oh yeah, let me add that to obtain an H-1B visa you must hold a MINIMUM of a bachelor's degree.


4. L-1 visa for someone who wishes to come to the United States to take a manegerial or executive position in an American organization.


Now you tell me please, ladies and gentlemen, how does the average Joe (or should I say Jorge?) from Mexico who has nothing but the clothes on his back, his two hands and his indomitable spirit to work his butt off to provide for his family come to this country legally without an American to marry, without a college degree or professional skills, and without assets to invest??

[Wyoming]

Really? As if being a native born American or a Green Card immigrant lessens the chance that someone is a "hardcore murdering azzhole"?? Our of the murders and violent crimes committed in the US annually, how many were by illegal aliens and how many were by Americans? I daresay more by illegals than YOU realize!!

This guy is trying to become legal by serving in the Corps. Shows how difficult it is to legally immigrate to this country, that his lawyer believes he has a better chance at fighting for his client to serve in the Marine Corps than to become a legal immigrant through other means.

This kid was brought to this country by his parents when he was 12. He did not ask to become an illegal alien. Now that he has lived in this country for most of his life and developed a loyalty to her, he wants to serve in the Marines, DURING A TIME OF WAR may I add, in order to pay his dues for a shot at the American dream.

You guys keep saying - its the law, rules are rules.

Perhaps think about it in Marine Corps terms? How many of you, as an NCO, SNCO or Officer, have ever bent the rules in some way, shape or form in order to take care of one of your Marines? Key words here - 'one of your', but I do not see the word 'illegal'.




The guy wants to be a US Marine. Its not easy to get a Green Card. I had one, I know.

I first came to this country with my mother when I was 3, ever since then we traveled around the world, moving with my mother as her job demands.

There are several ways to immigrate to this country legally, its a complicated process but these are the general routes most take:

1. Marry an American
2. Political Asylum/Refugee status
3. Have a company sponsor you, which they will need to prove that you have a unique skill set not easily filled by an American, and apply for an H-1B work visa for you. If the work visa is granted, after a certain period the employer can sponsor you to apply for a Green card, but it is to the employer's benefit not to do this, as you cannot work anywhere else with an H-1B visa except the company of sponsorship, once you stop working for said company, you must leave the country, and employers can use that to blackmail their foreign employees.

Oh yeah, let me add that to obtain an H-1B visa you must hold a MINIMUM of a bachelor's degree.


4. L-1 visa for someone who wishes to come to the United States to take a manegerial or executive position in an American organization.


Now you tell me please, ladies and gentlemen, how does the average Joe (or should I say Jorge?) from Mexico who has nothing but the clothes on his back, his two hands and his indomitable spirit to work his butt off to provide for his family come to this country legally without an American to marry, without a college degree or professional skills, and without assets to invest?? Don't use the wah-wah ploy on me. Get the card, come here legally, pay taxes and be a productive member of THIS society. For Christs, there are illegals coming to this country getting welfare AND social security!! I say BS to all of that!

My name is Big Al, I am American-American, I pay taxes, and I approve this missive.

[FutureBootLouie]

Its really easy for you to not understand the plight of immigrants because God blessed you with the privilege of being born in this country. Its ok, I understand.

You use the tax line like so many people as if it confers you a special status in society. 300 million Americans pay taxes. You're not special.

I guarantee you every illegal alien out there would pay taxes if it meant the government would let them stay legally, except they usually make so damn little that they'd have their taxes fully refunded in May anyways.

Please provide statistic of violent crimes committed by illegal aliens. I guarantee you the percentage is far lower than that of Americans. I guaran-freaking-tee you. Why? Because they're trying to keep a low profile anyway earning a living, they're not going to skyline themselves by committing violent crimes.

I have nothing against our immigration laws. They're there for a reason, to protect our borders and to prevent our country being flooded by millions of refugees and people without professional skills that would be a drain to our economy.

But I AM sympathetic to the plight of illegal immigrants.

God blessed me with a mother who had money to invest, who had a bachelor's degree, and who met an American she married. Hence I am able to serve in the Marine Corps today and pursue my dream of serving as a Marine Officer.

Most everyone else don't have such privileges, and there's not a day in my life that I don't count my blessings. I don't take them for granted.

[FutureBootLouie]

I'll say again - let them serve.

Let them (illegal immigrants) to volunteer serve 4 years in a combat arms MOS in the US Army or Marines. If over the 4 years, they serve honorably, then give them an opportunity to apply to become United States citizens.

If they have demonstrated that they are willing to risk life and limb to defend this country, then they deserve to stay.

There are plenty of sh*tbag Americans who hate our country and the values we stand for.(e.g. Westboro Baptist Church) Deport their asses instead.

[Isrowei]

Louie, it's understandable you feel passionate about these people, but please remember that no one asked them to come here. The parents of that child made a decision to break the law... the child has to live with that. Is it fair? No. But what is? Life is not fair and you can't go around trying to artificially make it fair. If these people really wanted to work so hard, they could do it in their home country. They could improve their own country instead of coming in illegally to ours.

There are plenty of people who would "risk life and limb" to get into the US and then do us great harm. Sure there are Americans who don't appreciate what they have. But.. they are Americans. It's as simple as that. I feel for the kid, but he doesn't have a place in the Corps till he has a legitimate green card. And I agree that the lawyer seems to be trying to make her name known rather than actually trying to get him legally into the country.

[Wyoming]

I wrote 'daresay', re; statistical data. It was MY opinion.

In that same diatribe, I also commented about welfare and social security. Did that get glossed over?

Can you spell 'illegal'? Illegal is illegal.

Follow the rules.

Jeez, how much clearer does it have to be.

FOLLOW THE RULES!!


It's just like 'gun laws'. We DO NOT need more 'gun laws'. Enforce the ones we have. I have a CCP. In both vehicles I have a weapon. In my home, on my front door, I have a holster attached, up high, upside down, with a Glock 19, loaded. Sorry, I digress.

[FutureBootLouie]

I wrote 'daresay', re; statistical data. It was MY opinion.

In that same diatribe, I also commented about welfare and social security. Did that get glossed over?

Can you spell 'illegal'? Illegal is illegal.

Follow the rules.

Jeez, how much clearer does it have to be.

FOLLOW THE RULES!!


It's just like 'gun laws'. We DO NOT need more 'gun laws'. Enforce the ones we have. I have a CCP. In both vehicles I have a weapon. In my home, on my front door, I have a holster attached, up high, upside down, with a Glock 19, loaded. Sorry, I digress.


I think you're going on a tangent here. Bet you a hundred buck you'd say: "screw the rules" if your family was struggling and you had a hard time putting food on the table.

Its easy to say "follow the rules" when the rules don't apply to you.

[jeffsnff89]

I went to school where we were roughly 10-15 minutes from the border here in California. There were many illegals and non illegals that went there. Some were really cool and wanted to do their god damn best at school and make a good living. 95% of them just sat around in their gangs and smoked weed got drunk got in fights and said how much better Mexico was. They never said the pledge of allegiance. They hated this country and never wanted to do **** and I knew they were illegal and so did the school. But they still came. They even helped some of the drug trafficing come over the border. And I'm not lieing. If he wants to join the core I say do it but instead of paying his lawyer a **** load of money he could use to get a green card or whatever he needs. I respect anyone that wants to serve the country and I tilt my hat to them but it still needs to be done legally I had to do it with my diploma why not him with his citizen ship?

[jetdoc]

I say let him serve. In fact, make it so all illegal aliens who have completed 4 years of honorable service in a combat arms MOS are immediately granted amnesty.

Kinda like a "starship troopers" deal.

I agree, why not? Most of them I'm thinking want to be citizens and are willing to do whatever to get here, including some crazy, dangerous $hit.

[yellowwing]

I joined up under a Green Card. If he can get one let him Serve. If not send him back.

[davblay]

Our immigration laws are set up for a reason. Originally they were not that hard as we all came from some where else, but over the years it has been abused and ignored to the point that we, as a country, had to do something to have better control of the situation. In the 1800s our Native Americans crossed the southern Border without resistance, now thier decendants, if you will, are coming back the same way, it seems!

The lawyer is suing the Corps to get her client into the Corps...... I think that is BACK DOOR POLITICS, so to speak! Once its in the law books for reference, it will open the door to all kinds of crap! While I agree that the sins of the parents should not be punished on the child, I also see that this country educated him so far. So he undersands the American Laws and knows he needs to follow the law to get what he wants. This is just another plot to make another loop hole in the law, that's all. Now that INS knows him and his family, and thier where abouts, send them all back, they can go through the proper legal channels to return, if they so choose.

I went to the local County Fair this past week, and I swear I thought I was in TJ, there were so many Mexicans operating the carnival and all.

I agree, let the lawyer help him become legal, that solves everything for him!

That's my 2 cents,

Dave

[Wyoming]

I think you're going on a tangent here. Bet you a hundred buck you'd say: "screw the rules" if your family was struggling and you had a hard time putting food on the table.

Its easy to say "follow the rules" when the rules don't apply to you.

Look young louie, ALL of the rules of this country apply to me.

So, if I am struggling, according to you and your hundred bucks, I would break the rules and steal food. Not so. That is what family is for, not your way.

BTW, your spin, spin, spin caca passed on the welfare and social security bit all together.

As if it matters, me thinks you and jetdoc will get along nicely, and you, a soon to be sir, have gone down a huge notch, in my opinion.

[FutureBootLouie]

Look young louie, ALL of the rules of this country apply to me.

So, if I am struggling, according to you and your hundred bucks, I would break the rules and steal food. Not so. That is what family is for, not your way.

BTW, your spin, spin, spin caca passed on the welfare and social security bit all together.

As if it matters, me thinks you and jetdoc will get along nicely, and you, a soon to be sir, have gone down a huge notch, in my opinion.


You're absolutely right, I think immigration laws exist for a good reason, and they should be abided by.

You don't think food theft was prevalent in the early 1930s amidst the Great Depression? It's a survival instinct. It doesn't make it right, but sometimes necessity drives people to do things that they would much rather not do except in a last resort.

Intent plays a large part in law. If you were the presiding justice over two cases - in one case:

A single father who just got laid off and hasn't been able to find another job despite his best efforts for the last 6 months stole a bag of groceries to feed his three daughters

In another case: A young man shoplifts a store in order to pay for that brand new XBox-360 he always wanted.

Which person would you let off easy and which person would you punish to the maximum extent of the law?

I'm not saying illegal immigration is right. I'm not saying the laws should be ignored. You're absolutely correct, it is breaking federal laws that we must uphold. But it doesn't mean you can't have compassion on people who break these laws out of sheer necessity, because they cannot make a decent life for their families in Mexico, and are here for a tiny little piece of the American dream that all of us seem to take for granted.


My original statement still stands. We're short on manpower in the military fighting these wars, and the Marine Corps is expanding. Let those who are willing to serve, serve.

4 years of honorable service in a combat arms MOS. Applicant must fulfill all the same basic requirements an American applicant would - PFT score, AFQT, and some sort of proficiency in english.

If they want to be here so badly that they're willing to risk their life and limb in service of this great country, they should be awarded with citizenship. Much more deserving than the Westboro Baptist Church and other America hating Americans out there.

Deport their asses, have them live in sub-saharan Africa, or Mexico, or Indonesia for a few years, see if they still have anything bad to say about our country.

P.S. When I said the rules that don't apply to you, I meant the immigration laws, because you're a natural born citizen.

[Wyoming]

Welfare and Social Security.

What are your opinions here, my fine young Marine?

[FutureBootLouie]

Welfare and Social Security.

What are your opinions here, my fine young Marine?

lol, should we take this to the politics forum so we're not polluting the Open Squad Bay with our rhetoric that nobody else cares about?

[Isrowei]

My original statement still stands. We're short on manpower in the military fighting these wars....



Louie... manpower is the one thing we have spades of. Please check the recruiting numbers before you make a statement like that. We've increased the Marine Corps by 22k and we're ahead of schedule... almost 2 years ahead of schedule for recruitment. We're in danger of OVER-enlisting people.

In short... we don't need him. He needs us. Let him go the required route.

[YutYut]

Bending the rules would probably mean his paper work was fudged or "unfairly" expedited to allow him and his family quicker legal status. Breaking the rules would be to ignore them entirely. His status as an illegal alien is just that...illegal!

It also seems to me that you're implying that ALL illegal immigrants have it SO bad that they simply want a better life. Why is that? Have you spoken to, at the very least, the large majority of illegals? I'd imagine that's a big negative.

Oh, by the way, that "if you had no food" example you posed doesn't hold water. I grew up poor. The kind of poor where food is a luxury. Neither me, nor my mother, stole any food/money/what-have-you to get by. Instead of taking food out of someone else's mouth, she chose to work her ass off with 2-3 jobs at a time to "make it" and provide for my sister and I. We never ran off to another country, became criminals, or were offered or accepted hand-outs. Well, if you can call welfare a handout (and I know some do) then we accepted that. Oh, btw, welfare is pretty much a "stay poor" hand out. You won't ever really get on your feet unless you get into something that brings you out of the situation. Anyway, my point is that some people run away from their problems instead of deal with them head-on. Some people choose to circumvent the system rather than do what's required. Just like you stated there's nothing "special" about bigal or any other tax-paying American, there's nothing "special" about those who choose not to follow the legal LAWS to get into this country. You have those who accomplish their goals by doing what's right and those who accomplish their goals in spite of what's right.

How would you feel if you got home from work one day and found someone living in your house?? Some one you didn't know and who will not compensate you for their stay. What would your opinion be if, after asking/telling them they had to leave immediately, they told you no...then took you to court because it's unfair that they have to leave YOUR house, since they have no other place to go, and they don't like where they came from????

Let's get back to reality, now. The law is a law...break it and suffer the consequences. That's the way the world works.

[davblay]

Well saidd Sgt, WELL SAID indeed!

[FutureBootLouie]

Bending the rules would probably mean his paper work was fudged or "unfairly" expedited to allow him and his family quicker legal status. Breaking the rules would be to ignore them entirely. His status as an illegal alien is just that...illegal!

It also seems to me that you're implying that ALL illegal immigrants have it SO bad that they simply want a better life. Why is that? Have you spoken to, at the very least, the large majority of illegals? I'd imagine that's a big negative.

Oh, by the way, that "if you had no food" example you posed doesn't hold water. I grew up poor. The kind of poor where food is a luxury. Neither me, nor my mother, stole any food/money/what-have-you to get by. Instead of taking food out of someone else's mouth, she chose to work her ass off with 2-3 jobs at a time to "make it" and provide for my sister and I. We never ran off to another country, became criminals, or were offered or accepted hand-outs. Well, if you can call welfare a handout (and I know some do) then we accepted that. Oh, btw, welfare is pretty much a "stay poor" hand out. You won't ever really get on your feet unless you get into something that brings you out of the situation. Anyway, my point is that some people run away from their problems instead of deal with them head-on. Some people choose to circumvent the system rather than do what's required. Just like you stated there's nothing "special" about bigal or any other tax-paying American, there's nothing "special" about those who choose not to follow the legal LAWS to get into this country. You have those who accomplish their goals by doing what's right and those who accomplish their goals in spite of what's right.

How would you feel if you got home from work one day and found someone living in your house?? Some one you didn't know and who will not compensate you for their stay. What would your opinion be if, after asking/telling them they had to leave immediately, they told you no...then took you to court because it's unfair that they have to leave YOUR house, since they have no other place to go, and they don't like where they came from????

Let's get back to reality, now. The law is a law...break it and suffer the consequences. That's the way the world works.


Nothing here I can really argue with. You've made some pretty good points. I'm just sympathetic to the plight of those who do not have the means to come to this country via legal immigration, yet pursue a better life for their families.

Do I think immigration laws should be ignored? Of course not. But I think we could use a bit more compassion in our judgement in certain cases.

[YutYut]

Louie, I can't say much to this except that, in the legal system, it seems "certain cases" tend to set a precedent that ends up being referenced for any case that can even loosely claim relevance to said precedent. I'm not saying the immigration system is perfect. Not by any means. It is what it is, though. Perhaps you should think about taking the lead (or joining the effort) of making changes in this area. That's not my typical smart-ass comment. Quite serious, in fact.

[Vir Bellum]

I say let him serve. In fact, make it so all illegal aliens who have completed 4 years of honorable service in a combat arms MOS are immediately granted amnesty.

Kinda like a "starship troopers" deal.

:thumbup:

I see everyone's point, but the law is the law my family had to wait 6 yrs to come to the states in the early seventies, had to wait our turn, to make it happen and do it right .I hate people that cut the line do it wrong and then have a victim attack on how badly they are being trated for breaking the law.

Every person that come's here should be mandated to do some type of service for the country. This is a real sore issue with me, I see them as parasites that live of OUR service and sacrifice .

All my brothers joined the Corps to pay back the country for our blessing of being allowed to live here, we have combined 30+yrs of service between the 3 of us.

That said they need to pack that guy and his family and send them back.

[sscjoe]

I agree that his status occured through no fault of his own. There are legitimate ways to attain citizenship and those are the avenues that his shiester attorney should be pursueing. You are correct Louie this should be moved to the political forum for futher discussion.

[OB MSG]

Alright, here's my two cents on this interesting bit of news.

My wife, who is Canadian, and I are currently embroiled in the Immigration process. We've been at it now for nearly 2 years. We are going through the process legally because we want to complete it as fast as possible. We have filled out all the forms, paid all the fees, and we are working through it... LEGALLY.

So in response to our little illegal wannabe, I'm sorry, he needs to tow the mark, get into the process, or get his card altogether, then join. I'm following the rules with my wife, he can do no less. Especially if he wants to be in my brotherhood.

Oh, and did I mention that for the first year of my marriage, my wife had to live in Canada because once you're married, your spouse can't enter the country without special permission. If he/she is your fiance then you have to get a different visa and get married with in 30 days. We went the other way because it is supposed to be the faster route.

[AL49BGN]

My Parents had to wait their turn when comming here back in the Sixties.The law is the law we must all follow it.What gives this person the idea that he can bi-pass the rules and be rewarded for it while others have to wait in line?I can't see how someone can raise their right hand and swear to uphold the Laws and constitution of our great land while they themselves had to respect for our Laws in the first place.Send him back!

[UsmcMotorT]

:thumbup:

I see everyone's point, but the law is the law my family had to wait 6 yrs to come to the states in the early seventies, had to wait our turn, to make it happen and do it right .I hate people that cut the line do it wrong and then have a victim attack on how badly they are being trated for breaking the law.

Every person that come's here should be mandated to do some type of service for the country. This is a real sore issue with me, I see them as parasites that live of OUR service and sacrifice .

All my brothers joined the Corps to pay back the country for our blessing of being allowed to live here, we have combined 30+yrs of service between the 3 of us.

That said they need to pack that guy and his family and send them back.


Agreed. To come to the states Legally from the Philippines can take anywhere from 5-20 years depending on your situation. Took my cousins 6 years. My aunt would have to wait 10 years. It's tough but you gotta do it right.

[chainsaw303]

Hi, i moved to the USA three years ago legally from Canada, i love this country and i want to serve in the United States Marine Corp, is there anything i could do to join the Marine Corp without a green Card(im legally in the US), ive already talking to my recruiter he wasnt much help, any suggestions would be welcomed thanks!

[PenguinPuncherr]

Wouldn't it be great if we had some sort of "Immigrant Corps" where people from all of the world can come and serve America and earn the right to be an American. Although that would be a great opportunity for the enemy to learn about our military, there would have to be some strict laws, but a faster process to Americanize the people.

[bootlace15]

WOW, This is touchy. Wonder how you feel about this guy vs the draft dodgers who were citizens during the Viet Nam war. Let him serve,at least he has some guts............

[JohnEaceHunt]

My 15 cents are he was an accomplice to the crime of coming here illegally. Not innocent. The recuiter that wants to enlist him should be diss-charged under other than honnorable conditions. I do...

[hbharrison]

Thankyou BigAl

[Lisa 23]

Chainsaw303 and PenguinPuncherr, you're both posting in the wrong forum. Open Squad Bay is for Marines only.

[AAV Crewchief]

I'm 19 and I am from Ukraine. I'd like to join USMC Infantry VERY MUCH but unfortunately I can't do it without Green Card. It's very hard to get a Green Card. It's not fair. If person really wants to join the MILITARY just let this person do it, if this person satisfy your requirments of course. Everybody needs just a chance to join.

Go screw yourself. If you and the Mexican can't follow the rules outside of the Corps, how the hell can we trust you to follow them inside the Corps?:thumbdown

[AAV Crewchief]

Nothing here I can really argue with. You've made some pretty good points. I'm just sympathetic to the plight of those who do not have the means to come to this country via legal immigration, yet pursue a better life for their families.

Do I think immigration laws should be ignored? Of course not. But I think we could use a bit more compassion in our judgement in certain cases.


.......and the judgement can be found in the law. Letting one through any sort of exemption will open Pandora's Box. No thanks. They can come in the legal way or go back to the place where they came from.

[AAV Crewchief]

Really? As if being a native born American or a Green Card immigrant lessens the chance that someone is a "hardcore murdering azzhole"?? Our of the murders and violent crimes committed in the US annually, how many were by illegal aliens and how many were by Americans?


This guy is trying to become legal by serving in the Corps. Shows how difficult it is to legally immigrate to this country, that his lawyer believes he has a better chance at fighting for his client to serve in the Marine Corps than to become a legal immigrant through other means.

This kid was brought to this country by his parents when he was 12. He did not ask to become an illegal alien. Now that he has lived in this country for most of his life and developed a loyalty to her, he wants to serve in the Marines, DURING A TIME OF WAR may I add, in order to pay his dues for a shot at the American dream.

You guys keep saying - its the law, rules are rules.

Perhaps think about it in Marine Corps terms? How many of you, as an NCO, SNCO or Officer, have ever bent the rules in some way, shape or form in order to take care of one of your Marines?




The guy wants to be a US Marine. Its not easy to get a Green Card. I had one, I know.

I first came to this country with my mother when I was 3, ever since then we traveled around the world, moving with my mother as her job demands.

There are several ways to immigrate to this country legally, its a complicated process but these are the general routes most take:

1. Marry an American
2. Political Asylum/Refugee status
3. Have a company sponsor you, which they will need to prove that you have a unique skill set not easily filled by an American, and apply for an H-1B work visa for you. If the work visa is granted, after a certain period the employer can sponsor you to apply for a Green card, but it is to the employer's benefit not to do this, as you cannot work anywhere else with an H-1B visa except the company of sponsorship, once you stop working for said company, you must leave the country, and employers can use that to blackmail their foreign employees.

Oh yeah, let me add that to obtain an H-1B visa you must hold a MINIMUM of a bachelor's degree.


4. L-1 visa for someone who wishes to come to the United States to take a manegerial or executive position in an American organization.


Now you tell me please, ladies and gentlemen, how does the average Joe (or should I say Jorge?) from Mexico who has nothing but the clothes on his back, his two hands and his indomitable spirit to work his butt off to provide for his family come to this country legally without an American to marry, without a college degree or professional skills, and without assets to invest??


With your values and morals wannabee LT, I sure hope you don't make it to wearing a uniform as an LT in my Corps.

[hbharrison]

If they wish to serve in the Corps or for that matter in any of the Armed Force let them come in legally there is NO reason to forego our immigration laws they work just fine I have to many family members as well as some friends who came here and were granted citizenship legally so any one who hires an attorney to sue the USMC to be a Marine but has not come to the coutry legally should be deported now.

[YutYut]

Who digs up a thread from 2008??

[MKearin]

I agree. If someone wants to serve. They should be allowed to. My father enlisted in the Corps when he immigrated here from Ireland. He got his citizenship while he served. So it should be anyone else, provided they meet the standard criteria whichever branch they choose to enlist in.

[MKearin]

My own bootcamp experience comes to mind. We had a Russian defector in my platoon. He wasn`t a citizen when he enlisted and he turned out to be a good Marine and an upstanding U.S. citizen.

[sparkie]

I agree. If someone wants to serve. They should be allowed to. My father enlisted in the Corps when he immigrated here from Ireland. He got his citizenship while he served. So it should be anyone else, provided they meet the standard criteria whichever branch they choose to enlist in.

Did your father come here legally? I bet he did. As for the rest, What part of the word 'criminal' is so hard to understand? I don't care if this thread is 10 years old.

[kenrobg30]

" We just want to be peaceful, law abiding citizens." Said Ghengis Khan.:thumbdown Ken

[MKearin]

You`re absolutely right! I agree that if one crosses our borders illegally should not be permitted to enlist. They should at least obtain a visa just like my dad did.

[cplwatson2dsrig]

I say let him serve. In fact, make it so all illegal aliens who have completed 4 years of honorable service in a combat arms MOS are immediately granted amnesty.

Kinda like a "starship troopers" deal.

Why? So he is an ftap boatspace, and an American citizen that is prior service cannot get back in because ftap boatspaces are locked up by illegals looking for an easy path to citizenship? No way Jose (pun intended)

[GSEMarine94]

Who digs up a thread from 2008??
No attention to detail?

[supermanlives22]

Louie, it's understandable you feel passionate about these people, but please remember that no one asked them to come here. The parents of that child made a decision to break the law... the child has to live with that. Is it fair? No. But what is? Life is not fair and you can't go around trying to artificially make it fair. If these people really wanted to work so hard, they could do it in their home country. They could improve their own country instead of coming in illegally to ours.

There are plenty of people who would "risk life and limb" to get into the US and then do us great harm. Sure there are Americans who don't appreciate what they have. But.. they are Americans. It's as simple as that. I feel for the kid, but he doesn't have a place in the Corps till he has a legitimate green card. And I agree that the lawyer seems to be trying to make her name known rather than actually trying to get him legally into the country.



i would have to agree with the Capt. he may be an illegal but his parents brought him here. normally i would be for the deportation of illegals but this case has me going for him. he went to high school and if he has no history of crime that we know of then let him join. i know there is the what if factor but thats the same for anyone of you guys also me that joins the marines. so i say let him do it