Does anyone know?

[greensideout]

We hear most every day what the number of KIA's are in Iraq and I don't take that lightly but does anyone know how many wounded and maimed we have at this time?
The price they have given is great as well. They too are our heroes. How many are out there? I have never heard a number.

[Phantom Blooper]

Bush Asks Americans to Remember Service Members During Holidays

Dec. 24 (Bloomberg) --

President George W. Bush asked Americans to keep the families of U.S. military men and women in mind during the Christmas holiday, saying their wartime sacrifices are protecting the country's freedoms.

``Staying behind when a family member goes to war is a heavy burden, and it's particularly hard at Christmas,'' Bush said in his Christmas radio address. ``We think with pride of the men and women of our armed forces, who are keeping our nation safe and defending freedom around the world.''

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld yesterday said the U.S. contingent in Iraq will be reduced by two brigades early next year. The military later said the units he specified have a total of 7,000 soldiers.

The additional 20,000 soldiers sent to Iraq to enhance security for the Oct. 15 referendum on the constitution and the Dec. 15 parliamentary elections will be withdrawn next month, returning the U.S. force to its ``baseline'' of 138,000.

The U.S. has 19,000 soldiers in Afghanistan fighting fugitives from al-Qaeda and the Taliban, who were ousted from power in the 2001 U.S.-led war on terrorism.

``In Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, they are protecting our liberty by spreading liberty to others, and all Americans are grateful to our troops for their courage and commitment,'' Bush said.

The number of U.S. military personnel killed in Iraq since the March 19, 2003, invasion totaled 2,161 as of Dec. 22 and the number of Americans wounded totaled 16,061, according to Pentagon figures. Deaths of American military personnel in Afghanistan totaled 206 and injuries totaled 672.



To contact the reporter on this story:
Brendan Murray in Washington at brmurray@bloomberg.net

[hrscowboy]

GSO i have thought that also we have never heard about the wounded and their numbers. Of course it was the same way in Vietnam all we heard was the KIA reports and never really heard of numbers of the wounded. It would be interesting how many they are from the iraq war so far. but then again GSO how do we count our actual dead from Nam from Agent orange cancer years later the count just gets bigger as the years pass by....

[Phantom Blooper]

"It would be interesting how many they are from the iraq war so far"

"The number of U.S. military personnel killed in Iraq since the March 19, 2003, invasion totaled 2,161 as of Dec. 22 and the number of Americans wounded totaled 16,061, according to Pentagon figures. Deaths of American military personnel in Afghanistan totaled 206 and injuries totaled 672. "

[Roulette]

GSO, The number VN Vets that I have met wounded, or otherwise scarred seems to have become commonplace for me I didn't really realize that till just now but it's devistating to wake up on Christmas morning and think of an entire generation and their families still batteling those injuries. I know mine is.
The wish I have for our service members on this Christmas Day, is that they recieve the very best of care and consideration upon their return to American soil. How long will it take those wounds to heal? How many will be pushed aside by a viscious society? I hope for those returning from Iraq and Afganastan that I DO NOT see the numbers of homeless and wounded Vets I have seen comming home from Nam.

[greensideout]

Phantom Blooper> Thanks for the numbers. I was surprised that the number of wounded is that large. At that rate, for every serviceman killed in Iraq and Afghanistan there are 7.06 wounded, if my math is correct. We are paying a huge price for a goverenment there that I have little faith in to succeed. Sad numbers.

hrscowboy> So very true. I just found out this month that a 1st Lt that I served with in Nam died of cancer from Agent Orange in 1995. He spent 16 years in the Corps. How good of a Marine was he? He was, without question the first Marine to draw fire upon himself to locate the VC in a landing zone. He was a Marine's Marine! His name is Lee Groutte.

Roulette> Thank you for your support of our troops. God Bless!

Semper Fi,
GSO

[redneck13]

"All Wounds are not Visible." My wounds didn't begin to show, as they are now, until the 70's. "The Order of the Silver Rose?" Is a replacement given by the VVA, for man dated "purple hearts" the President is suppose to award for victims of Agent Orange. I've been in personal contact with the head of this "org" (if you will). And have been told as many as 60, I believe have been given out a day. I have just found out two friends of another Friend of mine have "prostate cancer." Hopefully they got it in time. How many other's know of someone who has either died, had cancer from that junk? Then you have PTSD. I have had several I once knew now dead, suicide because of it. The "new" veteran's of a war, what will they go thru? Broken promises? And what about the first Gulf War? The poison they were exposed to? Chemical loaded artillery rds. The Gov't is doing the same with them as they have with us who were exposed to Agent Orange. Next yr? Will be the last yr. of any further examination of Agent Orange. I asked about "peripheral neuoapthy?" Which I've been diagnosed with, besides, neurogenic bladder, inflammatory bowel disease, Emac. (Imac) Eye degeneration, high chloesterol, arthritis. "I doubt if you'll ever see "peripheral neuroapthy" ever be on the list, except the one they have now, which is so stupid, because every Vietnam Vet I know has it, it would break the bank." I pray/hope/ and wish, that all the wounded from Nam, physically/emotionally, will not have to go thru anymore painful hoping the Gov't will take care of them. I'm not very optimistic about it. God Bless us all.

[lovdog]

"Wind in Face"
Not to mention the number of suicides that have happened. I've read a couple of articles that eluded to more deaths due to suicide than were actually lost during the Viet Nam conflict. One day your in a combat environment and a couple of weeks later your in the States again. There wasn't any counceling or diffusing at all that I saw, they pretty much just let you fend for yourself! I don't know about you, but I had a real hard time dealing with stateside "spit & polish" again. They had promised me an "early out" if I did another tour - well, when I got my final orders the XO explained that because of my "alternate" MOS (door gunner on a chopper) -that they had lost so many of us that there wasn't enough left and I had to stay in my last six months. If it wasn't for an ex-Recon Master Sgt. who was reverted back from a warant officer to a Master Sgt. once he hit the states, I probably would have ended up in one of two places - the brig or Canada. And years later, all the medical problems associated with the chemicals that they used hitting so many vets - like yourself. Who ever said "war was fair" though? Remember old Ernie Ford -" If the right one don't get you then the left one will!!" And, remember going thru jungle training they always told us- "always expect the unexpected!" I'm not what you call a real religious man but I think having wars is just God's overall plan in not allowing us to get too comfortable here on earth! Cause there gotta be something better than this! I wish you well.

[redneck13]

:D :thumbup: Ya know? You're absolutely right about the last part of your reply....If it wasn't for Him? I would've done lost my mind, and your right, there are more suicides than names on the wall. And there has to be something better than this dat blame place..........And "Marines" are waiting for us. I don't look at it like I got the shaft. I look at it as a blessing. Because it made me a better man. To deal with "idiot's in the VA"/Gov't, and the general population, who could never understand what we are, feel, think, act, want, and that's okay too.
I'm blessed. God sent me to the "Corps." "Then sent me to see "HELL." "THEN SENT BACK TO ANOTHER "HELL." "SO...WHAT'S THE NUTCUTTIN'?" I'm so thankful for all I have, and I deal each day, one minute at a time. I can't thank you enough lovdog for your reply. It warmed my heart, YOU'RE ONE FINE MAN/MARINE. SEMPER FI---BIG TIME.

[hrscowboy]

Wind in face i could not have said it better my brother Semper Fi and welcome home....

[rb1651]

Wind'nface, GOD BLESS YOU, MY FRIEND.

What you have so beautifully spoken has brought many an emotion back to me. Although my Dad did not serve in the Corps, he was a Military Dog Handler with the Air Force. I know that I have stated this in a previous post, but he took great pride in serving with his Breathren in the various Armed Forces. I truly believe that the effects of what he went thru in Vietnam contributed to his early death. He was just such a changed person when he came home after his second tour.

I would just like to say to ALL of our Vietnam Veterans here on this site, I THANK YOU FOR BEING YOU, and may God Bless each and every one of you.

Semper Fi

Ron

[lovdog]

I surely hope that they'll let you write some articles - after what you've gone thru day by day - and to be so upbeat & positive - I guess the only words to describe what you have is "inner peace"! I think that you are a year younger than I as I recall so I guess we're both on the "slide for life" downhill now. I do consider myself lucky in the sense that only my hearing has been affected, along with this blasted constant ringing. Memory is going too, I can remember things from a long time ago, but the recent things I have a problem with. You would think that - if your nice enough to load three M3 rounds for 16 of your fellow (would be Marines), they would at least wait til you covered your ears before firing the weapon???
But I guess the biggest problem facing vets is that the people that do have the power and authority to do some good are usually overpowered by those that control the purse strings. It somehow seems strange to me that a bunch of "lawyers" (congressmen & congresswomen) continually put our military leaders on the "hot-seat"! The media bombards the newpapers and radio/tv with all kinds of negative propaganda but refuses to do what is necessary to protect our fighting troops - that is the real issue. The enemy is getting smarter and smarter by the day-attack the most vulnerable! We're using front line vehicles that have little and some, no armor. You see on tv where the Marines & Soldiers weld some make-shift plates on the back of the carriers and gunner positions just to offer a little protection just from small arms fire. And Mr. Rumsfeld just tells them "you have to make do with what you have!!"
We have metals in this country that are 4 to 5 times stronger than steel, that will stop at least a rifle round and protect an undercarriage of a Humvee, absorbing the shock from a road mine. This is a different war than the one we fought in - the rules have changed drastically, and our military should be given a fair chance to survive another day! Do we put the money in the "rebuilding process" first and forget about keeping our "men and women" alive - second?? Politics and War - like water and oil!! Meanwhile, I'll just keep complaining to my Congressman - that's right, there not in session until the 17th I believe and after that I think that they need to have a two week meeting on their new pay raise, etc. etc. Problem with writing a letter now is it will probably end up in the "North Pole" file at the Post Office. Anyway, you take care of yourself, we need some dedicated Marines on our side!!

[gonzo7679]

To keep you imformed of our troops in Iraq and Afgan check out this site !


www.Iraq Coalition Casualties.com

[Devildogg4ever]

I keep a list of this on the front page of my site!!

Warriors Den (http://www.warriorsden.net)

[redneck13]

Ron first. Thank you my friend, brother....Semper-fi... This goes out to your Father also. I really appreciate, not just for me, but for all my brother/sister Nam (land of OZ) Vets, what you have said. Thank you for the welcome home. Everytime that is said? It makes my eyes watery....and I get a lump in my throat. That's why it is so important we find anyone in "uniform" and just tell them; "THANK YOU." A friend of mine did this to some Air Force folk recently. They had the strangest look on their face like, "Uh, I-I-, what happened?" They said thank you to him.
Lovdog...Man you spoke with "magic." This is what I call a person who can put a "rhythm" in their spoken, written, word. It flows like honey over a hot biscuit There isn't any BS in it. I would do you a dis-service if I would even give the slightest comparison of how you so elequently have put words that are so true, to "them do-dobber's" in Washington who make "policy" by sittin' on their brain's. Why am I Saying this? Politician's can talk and make some listen. They can be as smooth as a baby Marine's behind. But..."Honest, integrity?" Some yes. Most no. This is what is lacking, "Honesty, Integrity." Marines don't have a problem with that. It's best to face life with "honesty, and integrity than to face life with some sense of a false fantasy. Some un-realistic non-sense. I have to tell you...I laughed at how the truth came out how you feel, with a sense of humor to it, for the most part. You know. Laughter cures all ills. It makes the heart, soul, mind, forget their problems. If we can't laugh? We might as well just pack our sea bags and call it night, the party is over. I can't add anything to what you have spoken. It just does my heart, Marine Heart, good to hear someone else say things that are real. It also does another thing. Young Marines who may come aboard here? Us ol' Knuckle Head Marines? We might give 'em a song they can dance to. In other words? Listen up to the young replacing us. As far as your memory? It's called CRS. I don't know of one Nam Vet, who doesn't have this problem. I have it too. It takes a lot of concentration for me to be able to remember what I've said. But I can take you back to the very day, when something happened in Nam. It's because lovdog, we are constantly tuned into that. So don't let it worry ya none. Hearing? HUH? Yeah, mine too. I get so tired of saying, "HUH?" "What did they say?" Inner peace? For a Marine? It can happen. For PTSD? It can happen. You are not going to get rid of this thing called PTSD. It's now you know a "mental disorder." (yeah right. Emotional disorder) Inner peace takes many many years to find. Mortality. When you and I at our age start thinking about Mortality. Not like in the land of OZ, but our lives period. Oh boy howdy....Got to get some things in order, get some things taken care of as it wasn't so good. Get right with the Big Boss. Cause I don't want to miss the Marine Parade up there. This is when you face your life. Get real. Get down to business. And by golly, it'll make you squirm a bit. But Marines are not afraid to face it. So "LIVE ON LOVDOG." And thanks so much to all....God Bless, Semper-fi.

[gonzo7679]

hey warriordog4ever,great site you added.I have to correct my mistake,go to your search and type in( iraq coalition casualties )these are sites to look up our fellow brothers and sisters who were KIA or wounded.:(

[gonzo7679]

sorry goes out to devildog4ever,didnt mean to call you warriordog.Felt bad so took my ass to pits and did some mountmuthafuqers, :evilgrin:
semp fi

[lovdog]

I'm not sure how the casualties are counted. I believe in Nam that about 1/6th or about 10,000 were killed by accidents. You can correct me on this, but I know I read those figures along time ago somewhere- that is: not caused by the enemy! And, I can't recall if only those figures are counted if you get a purple heart out of it?? Or, to what extent the injury was. Like, if you broke your arm in a mortar/rocket barrage it would probably count, if you broke your arm when you fell off the bar stool - it wouldn't!
Or, the scenario of the Marine that has 3 purple hearts (I met one in San Diego), is he in fact counted 3 times??
Sad thing though, even losing one Marine is one too many. To have a vibrant, young life snuffed out in their prime - like they say: "its a dirty job, but someone has to do it!" The best our country has to offer is what we send! And these young men keep stepping forward, when one goes down there is another to take his place.
I remember reading a book awhile back - WWII island landing, I think it was Tarawa. After making it to shore a group, platoon size, found themselves pinned down behind a sea wall about 10 feet high. They just could have stayed where they were being out of harms way. One by one they tried to crawl up & over the wall, but every time they tried, they were shot and fell back to the bottom of the seawall. But after losing about 8 guys, they finally started to get over the wall and those that made it over gave supporting fire so the others could make it. Now, only Marines are nutty enough to do this!!
I've always had the utmost respect for the Marines that go in on the first wave!! They know that the beach is entirely open, cover is at least 100+ yards from the waters edge, there chance of survival is less than 10% to make it to cover, if at all. They sacrifice themselves so their fellow Marines can make it to cover behind them. I guess thats whats its all about, taking care of one another, no matter what conflict your in. Our young men haven't changed and our traditions are still the same - they always will remain - solid as ever.

[dcline]

GSO hears a site that we can go to Militarycity.com/faces of valor.
The number of WIAs 16,155 8,626 rtd {returned to duty within 72 hrs}
7,529 not rtd. God bless them all.