Marine in Uniform at DC Anti-war Protest?

[thedrifter]

http://www.goodolddogs3.com/in-uniform-protest.jpg


http://p089.ezboard.com/fthefontmanscommunityfrm22.showMessage?topicID=807 2.topic

Ellie

[MillRatUSMC]

Ellie, I believe he for real and he has one false arm, the right arm I believe.
The uniform he wearing seem correct down to the medal and badges.
Now one might question, as a member of the military, what Article or Articles, has he broken under the UCMJ.
But as a citizen of the United States, he has that right under the 1st Amendment of the Constitution.
Well await to see how the Marine Corps handles this...

Semper Fidelis/Semper Fi
Ricardo

[Sgtj]

I think he's legit, however; a piece of sh*t, He might be more upset over his pizza box on his chest. I'm not sure about him having a false arm. I only see and ND ribbon on his chest. No overseas or Purple Heart. But your right MillRat he does have every right to do what he his doing.

[Joseph P Carey]

I am not so sure that he has the right to do this in uniform! I believe that he has the right to protest, but not as a iniformed member of the Armed Forces, only as a citizen. You guys seem to forget that the US Military is not a democracy! You do not have some of the same freedoms as does the general public to trash the Uniform of the US Military.

This may just be a young fellow that is looking for an early out, or it may be that he was wandering through the area and was asked for some information, and while answering the question (he appears to be buttoning up his uniform pocket), he was inadvertantly photographed with his hand on the sign. I notice that the young man was not photographed holding the sign aloft, and you would think that the Peace Movement would have made some gas out of this incident, and publicised it to the hilt in that respect. I can only think that the unknowing gentleman was setup for the photo. Not a wise move on his part, but who said all Marines are wise?

[jinelson]

That Marine may just be an unknowing lacky of the peace niks. By the way does anyone know what happened too LCpl Abdul Henderson? He was the Marine that appeared in uniform in Moore Scum Bag Moores "Fahrenheit 9/11" and stated that he would not rejoin his unit in Iraq. The last I heard was that the Corps had opened a preliminary investigation.

[Joseph P Carey]

Reservist Marine Corporal Abdul Henderson made the comment about his CIC when asked what he would say to his CIC, "“It would be two hits-me hitting him and him hitting the floor." This, in itself,...

[hrscowboy]

I dont give a rats behind what the deal is, This scum bag has no right to wear my Marine Corps uniform to any anti war rally the piece of****.. Too bad i am not his NCOIC his arse would be on every ****z detail i could find for his sorry arse. I would make his life a complete night mare... enuff said...

[Joseph P Carey]

HRS,

I think the most telling thing is that the photo was taken in Washington, DC, where the wearing of Dress Blues is part of the Corps' everyday uniform there for some units; that the photog never got his name; that other photos were not taken of him holding up the sign; and, there are very few places one can walk in Washington, DC, without tripping over an Antiwar Demonstration, or some other Tom-Foolery! You as a fomer Policeman should know the 'smoking gun' does not necessarily mean the criminal has been found!

[ggyoung]

Look at the chick on the right. Is he after that chick? In 1968 while ai Treasure Island in a cas. co. I would get in my summer class A and goto Berkley and hassle all the long hairs. Some said I had a death wish. Nobody would go with me on liberty.

[GySgtRet]

If he were in my platoon. I would wait to see what happened from his standpoint. If it were negative on his part he would be counselled, of course there isn't anything that I can recall as to what the counselling would be...??? I would check out the USMJ and if there isn't a article covering the offense it would be article 134. We shall have to wait this one out. I tend to levitae toward Joseph P. Carey on this one though.

Semper Fidelis

[hrscowboy]

gentlemen it dont matter thats a Marine Corps uniform if he was there to join them or there just to be looking for chicks as one marine said it that Uniform has no business being anywhere around a anti war rally what so ever... enuff said..

[KingDonkeyPunch]

I agree with Joe as well. I know a few marines who took vacations to Washington DC, and wore their dress blues to different war memorials. They wanted their picture taken in uniform at the various sites. This young marine just more than likely was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I will give him the benifiet of the doubt, just poor judgement on what girls he should try to pick up.

[Joseph P Carey]

HRS,

Washington, DC, isn't Kansas. Antiwar demonstrations are a lot like Cowpies; they are everywhere you go there! I would be damned if I wanted to wear my uniform there when I was young, if I would allow any scumbags to keep me from doing so!

Besides, the thing is one hell of a chick magnet! Even in the 60s it was. Those antiwar chicks still liked to have a real man with them on certain occations.

[hrscowboy]

buttomline Corporal carey is that No Marine should be any place in any type of confrontation that looks bad for our beloved Marine Corps and a anti war demonstration is not the place to be in Dress Blues i dont give a rats behind if it is a chick magnet. If he wanted to attend a anti war rally do it in civies and not my uniform. enuff said..

[KingDonkeyPunch]

You're right, he had no place to be there as a marine, especially in his dress blue uniform. The thing is, he might have just been passing through, and stopped to talk to someone. Maybe he was there to speak out against the rally, and support the idea of why we are there in the first place. There are so many situations that could be the reason for him being there, you can't just jump to conclusions.

[hrscowboy]

gentlemen if you look at the pic again you will notice hes holding a sign with his left hand this is a violation of UCMJ art 134

[marinefamily5]

Kingdonkeypunch...........if he was there to be speaking out against the rally....why in the hell would he be holding that sign for.............that is what i would like to know........in my opinion he is a peice of sh*t for wearing my Marine uniform there if he wants to do that stuff kick his azz out of the Corps and let him go back to being a nasty civilian.

[USMCgrunt0331]

A few things:

1st, our Plt. Cmdr who is a Capt. told our plt. last week before libo on fri. about the anti-war protests and warned us that it's against UCMJ to go to one in uniform and that we better stay away from DC.

2nd, Where did this photo come from? Remember the pic. of the Marine in Iraq supposively holding up the sign "I killed his parents and screwed his sister" or whatever the thing said, turns out that was just the product of someone using some computer software. But I would email the pic. down to the 8th and I HQ down in DC and see if they want to investigate into the matter.

[KingDonkeyPunch]

No, I totally agree with you that he should not have been there in uniform, the thing is, you cant just go pointing the finger at the marine saying he is a piece of sh*t. He has to be fresh out of boot camp, and probably just made a bad decision. I mean, if I am wrong, and he is there to support the rally, by all means burn him at the stake. Yet, like USMCgrunt0331 pointed out, he could just be a victim of some cruel photo shopping. Who knows right?

[CHOPPER7199]

Lets not be to quick to judge gentalmen. Time will tell.

[ivalis]

don't know the current rules on wearing uniforms. is the kid breaking any laws? if not, no biggie.

[greensideout]

I have never seen a war that I didn't want ended---what's the problem?

[Joseph P Carey]

Tell me HRS, what do we do? Do we throw him in the pond and if he floats we burn him at the stake?

The Photo could have been taken at Arlington for all you know! The Marine could be part of the Honor Guard that was politely asking the people to put away their signs. The guy looks too squared away to be anything else but an '8th & I' Marine, or something of that sort. notice that the Barracks cover is regulation to a Tee, and not stretched as most young Marines are prone to do.

I still say that your smoking gun is nothing more than a cap-pistol, and you should know better. As I said before, if he were attending a rally, he surely would have been photographed again and again carying the sign.

It still looks to me like he was telling the people where they had to go to demonstrate.

Even Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is nothing more than a cigar!"

[Joseph P Carey]

I looked through 35 Antiwar sites for that day, and I can not find this photo, maybe someone is pulling your legs?

[greensideout]

This pic came from www.goodoldboys3.com What ever that site is about. I edit photos as a hobby. As a result of that experence I have learned to not believe ANY photo that pops up on the web.
Send me a pic of you in uniform with your arm on your dad's shoulder and I will return it with you giving Sadam a hug.

[8th&I Marine]

I spent 3 and a half years stationed at Marine Barracks D.C. Chances are that Marine or wanna be Marine (you Chose) Probably isnt from 8th & I. Usually when there are protest the barracks was shut down all liberty was cancelled. I think this person needs to be disaplined under the UCMJ. That is an imbarrasment to my beloved Marine corps.

Cantrell

[miguelito]

I believe that the protester has the individual right to protest, but there is no way in h*ll he has the right to do what he is doing in uniform. The following information on Marine Corps uniform regulations solidifies my opinion:

11002. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE DIRECTIVES PERTAINING TO UNIFORMS
1. Implementing 10 U.S.C. 772, the President, by Executive Order 10554 of 18 August 1954, delegated to the Secretary of Defense the authority to prescribe regulations under which persons may wear the uniform. The following excerpts from DoD Directive 1334.1 of 11 August 1969 outline these regulations:

"a. Members of the Armed Forces (including retired members and members of reserve components). The wearing of the uniform is prohibited under any of the following circumstances:

(1) At any meeting or demonstration which is a function of, or sponsored by an organization, association, movement, group, or combination of persons which the Attorney Generalof the United States has designated, pursuant to E.O. 10450, as amended as totalitarian, fascist, communist, or subversive, or as having adopted a policy of advocating or approving the commission of acts of force or violence to deny others their rights under The Constitution of the United States, or as seeking to alter the form of Government of the United States by unconstitutional means.

(2) During or in connection with the furtherance of political activities, private employment or commercial interests, when an inference of official sponsorship for the activity or interest could be drawn.

(3) Except when authorized by competent Service authority, when participating in activities such as public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies or any public demonstration (including those pertaining to civil rights), which may imply Service sanction of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted.

(4) When wearing of the uniform would tend to bring discredit upon the Armed Forces.

I would have to say that about sums up his rights.

[Nagalfar]

His responsibilities to the Corps and his fellow Marines come BEFORE any of his rights.. IF this pic is the real McCoy he needs a lil squaring away.. he wants to protest he can wait till he is out of the Corps.. but, there is something about this pic of him in the back of my mind but I cant remember where, I think I have seen this guy before in something different..

[Orion]

I personally find this very disturbing. If this young Marine wants to go out and protest, do it in civies.

This deflates the moral of any and all of our warriors fighting in this war, it sends a negative message to friends, family, and loved ones of the Marines and soldiers over there.

I may not agree with this war but I will not protest and I will damn sure support our troops.

[hrscowboy]

gentlemen i believe if you check as long as you are in the military you dont have any right to do anything that discredits the armed services what so ever. I also recall my senior Drill instructor telling the platoon that you people no longer have any rights as long as you are in My beloved Marine Corps and the only rights you have is the Uniform Code Of Military Justice..

[greensideout]

Yep, that's it hrscowboy! Well said by the "Old Corps".

[tbruyle5]

I not totally sure this wasn't a staged photo. Before you string me up with the L/Cpl., I don't like the picture either, staged or not!
I went to the web sight on the poster and reviewed all of the photos I could find that they posted of the rally, (http://dianelent.com/s24mobe1.htm) and I couldn't find this one. I'm just saying that if they had this picture they'd be using it.
Again, I not in favor of this action and I think the L/Cpl. needs delt with directly!
:marine:

[hrscowboy]

If this is in fact a staged photo then i c an accept that but there are alot of poolies that come to this site and ask for guidence from us.. ladies an Gentleman we need to let these future bros and...

[Joseph P Carey]

Oh Please! Some of you guys are acting like old ladies! You know the type, they see a photo of someone that looks like they are doing something, and you take it on a run of fantasy! This is how the Salem Witch Trials got started!

Point one to take into consideration, there is no timestamp on the photo;
Point two, there are no second photos on any Antiwar site (They would have eaten this crap up like Ice Cream);
Point three, you seem to have no belief in the Antiwar movement, and what they say, and now you are willing to believe them about this.

Please note that the photo was taken while the Marine was looking in the opposite direction; there are no landmarks to ascertain where the photo was taken, when the photo was taken, who took the photo, what was happening when the photo was taken, or how the Marine came to be there. All questions that I would have answered before I stood a man against the wall and had him shot.

You are supposed to be setting an example for young Marines and the Marine recruits, and one of these examples is in rumor control. You have taken the word of the enemy that this was a peace rally, other than a graduation of some sort, or an event that required a Marine Honor Guard, and you have shown your lack of Marine initiative to smell out an obvious trap to make you look like old ladies.

Now, look to the back of the tent, off the Marine's right shoulder, you will note a very white dot in the photo where a head should be on a person, it is very blurry but the only thing that I can think of that would be that white and that round would be another Marine Dress Blue cover over a dark blouse.

If the person started this thread to make you look like fools, he has succeeded?

[hrscowboy]

Yes Corporal your right i do not believe in any type of anti war movement, If my country believes we need to stop terriorism and sends our young men and women to war to try to stop it i have no problem with it. I was raised that when ever My country asked for my help while in the military I was to do so with no questions asked. I also raised my Children to be the same way and both my sons made committments to our beloved Marine Corps just as you and I done. I lost my oldest brother to the Vietnam war Corporal in 1967 and I myself went to vietnam in Aug 69 and i ask you for what? I am dang proud of my service and my country and you can bet that i will tell any and all poolies that while in the military you have no right being anywhere around a anti war rally what so ever if in fact this turns out to be just that. buttom line corporal these young Marines and recruits need to know there surroundings and what could happen if there in the wrong place at the wrong time in uniform or not..

[A.P]

He had every right to be there as a Marine. We are not robots, he can think whatever he wants. Whats the use of fighting for a country's rights when you cant express your own? Just because were in uniform, it doesnt mean we are all unanimous.

[Nagalfar]

No A.P. it means you represent the Corps especially when you are in uniform.. and if you think you can protest a war, and support our Corps at the same time, you have one hell of a lot to learn.. it cant be done... ask ANY Nam vet, or better yet ask ANY POW... think about all of our brothers and sisters in the sandbox who get to see crap like that on T.V. or in the news.. you think it dont have a effect? REALLY?

[Joseph P Carey]

I think the photo is a put up thing for many reasons, and I do not think the photo was taken at an Antiwar rally. <br />
<br />
But, that aside, you are so wrong! The military personnel may not be robots, but...

[RLeon]

A.P, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU MISSED THIS POST BY MIGUELITO. HERE, READ IT.

Originally posted by miguelito
I believe that the protester has the individual right to protest, but there is no way in h*ll he has the right to do what he is doing in uniform. The following information on Marine Corps uniform regulations solidifies my opinion:

11002. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE DIRECTIVES PERTAINING TO UNIFORMS
1. Implementing 10 U.S.C. 772, the President, by Executive Order 10554 of 18 August 1954, delegated to the Secretary of Defense the authority to prescribe regulations under which persons may wear the uniform. The following excerpts from DoD Directive 1334.1 of 11 August 1969 outline these regulations:

"a. Members of the Armed Forces (including retired members and members of reserve components). The wearing of the uniform is prohibited under any of the following circumstances:

(1) At any meeting or demonstration which is a function of, or sponsored by an organization, association, movement, group, or combination of persons which the Attorney Generalof the United States has designated, pursuant to E.O. 10450, as amended as totalitarian, fascist, communist, or subversive, or as having adopted a policy of advocating or approving the commission of acts of force or violence to deny others their rights under The Constitution of the United States, or as seeking to alter the form of Government of the United States by unconstitutional means.

(2) During or in connection with the furtherance of political activities, private employment or commercial interests, when an inference of official sponsorship for the activity or interest could be drawn.

(3) Except when authorized by competent Service authority, when participating in activities such as public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies or any public demonstration (including those pertaining to civil rights), which may imply Service sanction of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted.

(4) When wearing of the uniform would tend to bring discredit upon the Armed Forces.

I would have to say that about sums up his rights.

[Joseph P Carey]

Can someone please tell me if the USMC RD SD still teaches the UCMJ? It appears to me that many San Diego Marines are under the impression that they have the same rights as do all other citizens of the USA while they are Marines in the US Armed Forces! Where did they get this impression? What are you teaching these men?

Military Law, in the United States, term used to designate the body of statutes, rules, and regulations governing military personnel and also certain civilians during wartime. Unlike martial law, which applies to all persons and property in the district in which it prevails, military law in peacetime applies to military personnel alone. Military law differs from military government in that the latter refers particularly to the military jurisdiction exercised by an army of occupation over the territory and inhabitants of an enemy country.

The basis of the military law of the United States is contained in Article 1, Section 8, of the U.S. Constitution, by which Congress is empowered "to make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces"; the law is embodied in the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which became effective in 1951.

The statutes of military law establish systems of military courts and include penal codes defining the offenses for which persons subject to the code may be punished. Such offenses include mutiny, insubordination, neglect of duty, unbecoming conduct, theft, robbery, rape, and murder.

The attending of Peace Rallies is considered Conduct undecoming a member of the US Armed Forces.

[ivalis]

Now that i've seen the regs i agree that a Marine in uniform should not attend a "peace" rally.

He/she should not attend wearing the uniform under sec. 2 of the above listed regulation.

I would posit that a Marine should not attend election campaign rallies wearing a uniform quoting the same regulations.

[yellowwing]

(3) Except when authorized by competent Service authority, ...
Sorry Ivalis, paragraph 3 looks like it sanctions the Commander in Chief and any of the President's Service authority members to address the troops and talk about anything they want.

Any incumbant has this political campaign edge. Kerry-Edwards never addressed Camp Pendelton or any Annapolis grads on the campaign trail.

I told a buddy up here that I was once fined half my pay for 2 weeks and assigned an extra unpaid 40 hours for being late to work. He thought I was kidding.

Maybe Hillary will change this when she is President, but we volunteer and sacrifice for the priviledge to serve. It's not for the pay and benefits.

[jgorosco]

yellowwing

I can't tell if that is sarcasm or you being serious about Hillary being President. Cause I really hope it was sarcasm. I bet you were never late again either.

SEMPER FI
IYAOYAS

[yellowwing]

Gotcha' :banana:

But if she were to run, here is a preview (http://www.ywg-web.com/images/clinton-reno-2008.jpg). (Be afraid, very afraid)

[jgorosco]

Sorry Sum Btch. I got scared for a second. Thanks for waking me up

SEMPER FI
IYAOYAS

[ese4mc]

A PERFECTLY MATCHED SET OF BOOBS

[jinelson]

Sweet Jesus that woke me up that is not only scarey its down right hideous.

[Joseph P Carey]

The photo of Hilary and Janette as scary as it is, it reminds me of the Three Witch's scene from Mac Beth; I can only imagine Pelosi as the third witch, and she would be Secretary of State (In her case it would be the renamed Department of the Personal Assistant of State, as secretary would be too demeaning for her). Now! That would complete the Witch's Ring around the boiling pot of the White House.

Some Shakespeare scholars have speculated that the three witches in Mac Beth are intended to represent the three Fates of ancient mythology. In this case it would be Hell, Fire, and 'Damn the Nation'!

[003XXMarineDAD]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joseph P Carey
[B]Can someone please tell me if the USMC RD SD still teaches the UCMJ? It appears to me that many San Diego Marines are under the impression that they have the same rights as do all other citizens of the USA while they are Marines in the US Armed Forces! Where did they get this impression? What are you teaching these men?

I have had conversations with my son since he went back to SOI and he says that there is 10% that do not deserve to wear the EGA and it kills him to have to watch what some of the new ones are doing .

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by 003XXMarineDAD
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joseph P Carey
[B]Can someone please tell me if the USMC RD SD still teaches the UCMJ? It appears to me that many San Diego Marines are under the impression that they have the same rights as do all other citizens of the USA while they are Marines in the US Armed Forces! Where did they get this impression? What are you teaching these men?

I have had conversations with my son since he went back to SOI and he says that there is 10% that do not deserve to wear the EGA and it kills him to have to watch what some of the new ones are doing .

If it makes any difference to you, I happen to agree. When I went into the USMC I expected to be a Marine! I had no idea what the Marines had in store for me, but whatever it was, I was going to do it to the best of my ability.

Perhaps President Eisenhower was correct, "Do away with the Marines!" after all, it is becoming nothing more than the Army with all the technocrats that are joining wanting this and wanting that, and not going through with things because they did not get things the way they wanted it in their contracts. What crap!

For you recruits, everyone that joins the Marines is an 0300. All that other crap is secondary to your job as a Marine. You should know your UCMJ, and you should know your History, and you should know how to strip that rifle blindfolded and how to put it back together again blindfolded, because that is your weapon as a Marine. When all the batteries go dead on those computers you are not running any longer, you had better learn elevation and windage, because the next bunker you see will be up close and in person, and not on a monitor, and you had better know how to take it. Lives depend on you knowing this!

[hrscowboy]

Cpl Carey i could not have said it better ...

[enviro]

I agree except the same trash coming out of SD comes out of PI too. It's not an east coast /west coast thing. To blame it on the fine drill instructors at either depot is wrong. These kids are harder to break - especially if they are reservists and get to go back to their old ways really fast. I know this first hand - my cousin isn't even a year in and he's already a piece of crap..... I've disowned him - HE WILL NEVER GET IT RIGHT...

[Joseph P Carey]

That is why reenlistment standards are so important! Only the best go on, and the run of the mill are left behind! It is the staff NCO and the NCO Corps that is the standard.

[bobpage]

Young, stupid and bendable. But then again, these new kids are infected with the entitlement mentality. YES THEY RESEMBLE THEIR DOPER PARENTS! He can be fried under the UCMJ. Turd, and a boot at that. He has never been anywhere, note the firewatch ribbon.

[LivinSoFree]

Y'know, even though I know I lean a fair bit to the left of most of you fine Marines on this board, there's a big difference between spirited discussion here, and the kind of bullsh*t that I see in my unit and ESPECIALLY the kind of disgraceful display I witnessed this summer at MCT.

Habitual UAs... "Marines," if they can still be called that, who disappear for 6 months at a time, then come back and get promoted, just because of the paperwork. Marines who can't keep their sh*t together enough to get a new set of cammies, who just don't give a damn.

MCT was another story, and I'm loathe to air that sort of dirty laundry here in public spaces, but suffice to say that it was, quite possibly the most ridiculous 22 days I've spent in the Corps. It honest-to-god made me wish for boot camp instead of it- and this is coming from a reservist who had been out in a unit for a solid year before checking in at SOI. There were three of us incremental reservists who'd been out in a unit at least a year, before checking in, and we thought the world had gone to hell. It's a telling story when, at a training command that's populated primarily by a bunch of boots 10 days off the Island, that the honor grad, and 6 out of 8 meritorious masts in the company went to reservists, and all four of us incrementals were in there. The four individuals who went up for the honor grad board? All reservists. The guides and squad leaders? All reservists. How 'bout that trash? I watched a new Marine disrespect every NCO, SNCO, the Doc, and THE COMPANY FREAKIN' COMMANDER, IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE COMPANY, and STILL GRADUATE!

Believe me... I'm as frustrated as you are. Like I said, shooting the sh*t here is one thing, but that trash gets stowed when it's time for business, and there ain't nothin' but business about being a Marine.

[A.P]

maybe motivation is not the answer i was looking for.

[jinelson]

Meyer I hear you loud and clear brother what you see is the reason that I left my reserve unit when I served as a non obligore in HQ Co 23rd Marines. As a SNCO I didnt pack the horse power to to make things right so I excercised my non obligore status and said later. Yeah I quit, please dont make that same mistake even if you could. Only you can make a difference brother its not easy or pretty but if you feel strongly enough its something that needs done. You know the chain and channels now so get er done brother you will like the changes that you may see. Good Luck to ya bro.

Semper Fi

Jim

[hrscowboy]

well that Marine would have disrespected me 1 time and his arse would have been on report and going to see the Ssgt and above.
I would have pushed it until something was done with his sorry arse..

[greensideout]

LivinSoFree, the Corps has been in a free fall mode since 1963. The Drill Instructors could no longer put the fear into the new recruits as before with a "little hand's on training". As a result the dicipline began to erode. It was kind of a shock to see it show up in the units at that time. Oh well, most everything breaks down in half lives. It never goes away but it continues to be less.
Somehow, however the Marines continue to get the job at hand done! God bless the Corps!

Semper Fi

[LivinSoFree]

That's the worst part, HRS- even the SNCOs are so jaded they don't even want to write the paper on the f*ckers. If the new policy is "hands off, write paper," fine, but WRITE THE D*MN PAPER! It's disgraceful at MCT BN right now...

[RLeon]

Man jinelson,that situaton sucks...it's frustrating. If you would have tried to do something I bet you would have been considered a pain in the butt a$$hole wannabe hardcharger when all you were...

[hrscowboy]

This is just the reason i make comments about the Old Corps and the New Corps.. When i was in if you even looked wrong at an NCO your arse was grass. And lord help your arse if you had to go see the Sgt (E5) . And give your arse to god if you where in front of a staff NCO your arse was going to the brig. Inspections every day of your living area and it better be spotless and it was squadbays then. spitshine boots and shoes every night no dang patton leather was allowed and brass better shine too. Musters every morning with inspection and if you failed you didnt have liberty that night. Rank was not easy to get either there was no such thing as a lance Corporal under 2 years service in the old Corps and to make Corporal usually was 3 to 4 years service unless you where combat promoted. The Marine Corps needs to go back to some of the old ways it was alot better. Buttom line you want to be the best there is then be ready to learn from the best, and you wont learn it from a week-end warrior ladies and gentlemen.

[LivinSoFree]

HRS- I'm gonna take exception to what you're saying. Guess what? Us "weekend warriors" comprise over half of the operating forces in Iraq right now. There's no such thing as a "weekend warrior" anymore. Just because I'm not in cammies every day doesn't mean I stop being a Marine. PT, MCIs, Uniform and Gear Maint, Admin BS, Getting put on hot standby and then stood back down just as fast, getting orders on 12 hours notice, except we do all this while maintaining a full-blown "other life." It ain't as easy as you'd think, and I guarantee you that I'm a DAMN SIGHT more professional than some of the sh*tbags in the activce forces. I've got my sh*t wired tight and I keep it that way, and so do the Marines I'm fortunate enough to serve with. In fact, it was a bunch of us "weekend warriors" leading the pack at MCT, and not all of us had spent time in a unit either. Us "weekend warriors" are actually deployed BEFORE most of the active duty forces, so as not to disrupt what's already in place. It's standard practice. And apparently someone thinks "weekend warriors" are a better example than an entire company full of active duty Marines, 'cause we took home the only CERTCOM and 5 out of the 8 meritorious masts out of Fox Company @ SOI. Is this cocky? Probably- it's how we're supposed to be. I've gotten my ass chewed for sh*t when I deserved it, and that's good to go, but Marines don't take sh*t they don't deserve. Respectfully, Corporal, you sound a lot like the NCOs that f*cked Marines from my unit over out in the Desert- "I ain't promoting no d*mn weekend warriors..." or "nasty f*cking reservists*" Bullsh*t.

[jjme9]

Most of the Marines today are as good or better then the Marines I served with as a PFC. You could tell what rank a SNCO was in his civilian clothes by the girth of his beer belly. Most of the present day Marines are terrific. Just look at what our Marines are doing in Iraq.

[miguelito]

Originally posted by jjme9
Most of the Marines today are as good or better then the Marines I served with as a PFC. You could tell what rank a SNCO was in his civilian clothes by the girth of his beer belly. Most of the present day Marines are terrific. Just look at what our Marines are doing in Iraq.
I guess there is a fine line between a good Marine in garrison and a good Marine in combat, Master Gunnery Sergeant.

[enviro]

I emailed the event photographer and asked her to verify the photo - the reply I received was:

"I can't tell you anything about that image. I've never seen it before and did not take it." - Diane Lent

[Joseph P Carey]

Enviro, That sort of nails my case for me about rumor control, and believing everything one hears, or in this case sees.

But, now that you have seemed to have provided some sort of proof that the photo may be as I have always claimed "another event or something at a different time and place, perhaps even altered" I have a different delema at hand. How is it I can trust what you have said to be the truth as well?

You do see where it is I am coming from do you not?

[Orion]

I am sure that where ever this Marine is that his command has seen and investigated the pisture. In the end justice will be served whether the photo is legitimate or not.

[Cheezballz]

tHAT PUNK IS JUST A BOOT WHO GOT ROUGHED UP IN BOOTCAMP AND WANTS OUT, HE ONLY HAS 1 RIBBON!!! NOT EVEN THE NEW GWOT SERVICE! WHICH IS GIVEN TO FLEET MARINES NOW! HE HAS DONE NOTHIN IN THE MARINE CORPS BUT PUT A BIG X ON HIS BACK, I KNOW FOR SURE HE'LL GET IT IN THE HALLWAYS OR THE s**TTERS

[speakeasy]

HAS THIS GUY BEEN IDed? WHO IS HE WHERE IS HEWHERE IS HE FROM OR DID HE BUY THE BLUES AT A SURPLUS STORE?

[Joseph P Carey]

Again, you guys sound like old ladies! No proof, no crime! What we have here is a Marine telling some demonstrators to move to another location away from an event. For the record, not all Marines are FMF, some are Barracks Marines, and other duties. I have already noted what appears to be another Blues barracks cover in the crowd. Why can't it just be a Young Marine doing his duty and shooing away protestors?

When I buried my Dad at Arlington, we were placed under the same kind of tent to protect us, and my Dad's remains, from the sun.

Is this the only exercise you guys get now days, jumping to conclusions, and running off at the lip?

[speakeasy]

SORRY JOE, KIND OF THOUGHT WE WERE SAYING THE SAME THING.

[RLeon]

I got an Idea, we can make wanted posters with his mug and disburse the throughout the Fleet....If he is a Marine, but the situation was totally innocent, or fabricated, let it go...If he is a Marine and he was protesting, we take him to the *treeline...If he's not a Marine but a nasty civillian poser, we take him to the treeline... :D


*treeline: what we used to tell sh#tbirds where we were going take them to give them an attitude adjustment, or where disputes were settled between Marines.(at least in my batallion)

[Joseph P Carey]

Actually Speakeasy, I was defending the Marine in the photo, because we are all jumping to conclusions in this matter. There is no proof that the Marine was willingly at a demonstration. The antiwar crowd did not use the photo in their photo package, and you know they would have!

What I am trying to do is to show the young Marines and the future Marines that not all is as it is seen, and that Rumors destroy perfectly good people, and they create morale problems.

It has been fun watching the reaction to the photo, but it got out of hand after a while, and we are condemning this poor young lad, where he may have done nothing wrong at all! We are taking someone's word for the fact that this is a photo taken at a demonstration in Washigton, DC, while it may have been taken any day at a place like Arlington Cemetery. Please note that the initial offering does not say he was participating in the demonstration at all.

I think the thing was placed in the thread to see what kind of reactions would be forthcoming from men that are trained to recognize a situation and react to it.

[greensideout]

Originally posted by Joseph P Carey
I am not so sure that he has the right to do this in uniform! I believe that he has the right to protest, but not as a iniformed member of the Armed Forces, only as a citizen. You guys seem to forget that the US Military is not a democracy! You do not have some of the same freedoms as does the general public to trash the Uniform of the US Military.


So JPC, who got sucked in first? You can't have it both ways. ;)

[enviro]

I'm guessing the picture could be real. Even if it's not here's two things to consider:

1. There WERE many in uniform at this protest. http://www.notinourname.net/gi-special/index.html

2. The Iraq Veterans Against the War was started by Lcpl Michael Hoffman, USMC when he returned from a tour in Iraq. (No the Lcpl in the picture is not him).

[Taz]

I agree with Mr Carey, it is definitely one hell of a chick magnet!!
Given the benefit of the doubt maybe he was just there to test it out I know of no one even to this day who can keep from wearing some part of my uniform or a symbol of my pride for the USMC nor will the day ever come but not at an anti war rally/demonstration the little s***head should no that if he had any pride and respect, he needs a blanket party...let's git r dun!!

[RLeon]

Originally posted by Taz
...he needs a blanket party...
shhh! not so loud. :devious:

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by greensideout
Originally posted by Joseph P Carey
I am not so sure that he has the right to do this in uniform! I believe that he has the right to protest, but not as a iniformed member of the Armed Forces, only as a citizen. You guys seem to forget that the US Military is not a democracy! You do not have some of the same freedoms as does the general public to trash the Uniform of the US Military.

So JPC, who got sucked in first? You can't have it both ways. ;)

Being quoted out of context is not a pleasant thing to have happen to a person, Old Buddy GSO. I do believe that you had missed the second part of what I had said in my remarks on 100205 at 09:23AM, and you intentionally deleted them. That text read as follows:
"This may just be a young fellow that is looking for an early out, or it may be that he was wandering through the area and was asked for some information, and while answering the question (he appears to be buttoning up his uniform pocket), he was inadvertently photographed with his hand on the sign. I notice that the young man was not photographed holding the sign aloft, and you would think that the Peace Movement would have made some gas out of this incident, and publicized it to the hilt in that respect. I can only think that the unknowing gentleman was setup for the photo. Not a wise move on his part, but who said all Marines are wise?" October 02 2005 09:23 AM

Being quoted out of context is just another way of slandering a person, somewhat like being photographed doing your job, or helping others, while it being said it was something entirely different then it was.

Maybe I have not changed my original opinion of the young fellow after all. What say you?

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by enviro
I'm guessing the picture could be real. Even if it's not here's two things to consider:

1. There WERE many in uniform at this protest. http://www.notinourname.net/gi-special/index.html

2. The Iraq Veterans Against the War was started by Lcpl Michael Hoffman, USMC when he returned from a tour in Iraq. (No the Lcpl in the picture is not him).

Enviro, no one ever said cowards are weak, and that they are not able to pass the same non-combat related regimens as the best of the best. They are just not brave enough to do what must be done.

I know nothing of your L/Cpl with the VAW. I can only image that he is frighten by his prospects of being in combat, he may even be what we would have called a Sh_tbird in the Marines of my day. After all, he is out of the service as an E-3, and we have no explanation of why that is so, nor do we have any idea or proof of him ever being in combat.

I seem to remember many a member of the VVAW that never saw the outside of an office in the United States that spun stories of horrors that were being committed by Marines in Vietnam. The fact that they never saw an enemy soldier, or heard a rifle shot in combat had no great distinction with the Peace movement or with the Communist offshoot VVAW.

To reveal the depth of dishonesty present in the VVAW, Al Hubbard, one of the founders of the VVAW and its Executive Secretary, and side-kick of John Kerry, claimed to be an Air Force pilot, wounded in Viet Nam.

In fact, Hubbard was never an officer, never wounded and never in Viet Nam.

VVAW members Elton Mazione, John Laboon, Eddie Swetz and Kenneth Van Lesser all claimed to have been a part of the Phoenix program in Viet Nam where they routinely killed children and removed body parts as a part of their duty. They were shown to have never been in the Phoenix program nor had they ever been in Viet Nam.

And the list of more frauds later found within the organization is mind-boggling.

For instance, Chuck Onan, who deserted the Marines in 1968, and fled to Sweden. Onan says he was in an elite Marine long-range patrol unit, that he went to parachute, frogman and jungle survival schools and received a special course in torture techniques.

"How were you trained to torture women prisoners?" Mr. Mark Lane (John Kerry's political mentor who wrote a book on the matter of atrocities by the US Military) asks.

"To strip them, spread them open and drive pointed sticks or bayonets into their vagina," Onan replies. "We were also told we could rape the girls all we wanted." Onan says he deserted after he got orders to go to Vietnam and put his knowledge into practice. "I was pretty gung-ho until the last phase of the training. Then it all began to seem so sick. They just went too far."

Now here is some information that Mr. Lane did not include in his book about Oran. The Marine Corps record say the only combat training Onan received was the normal boot camp given every Marine. He then, according to the records, attended Aviation Mechanical Fundamentals School at Memphis, Tenn., and next worked as a stock room clerk at the Marine air base at Beaufort, S.C., handing out spare parts for airplanes. He left Beaufort on Feb. 5, 1968, with orders to report to Camp Pendleton, Calif., for shipment to Vietnam, after 30 days leave.

He deserted!

There is no indication in his records that he ever belonged to a long-range patrol unit or that he received parachute, frogman and jungle survival training. The Marine Corps contends it does not give courses in torture.

I have seen men in combat that were brave beyond the word courage, but they would never fire a weapon at another living human being, and I have not seen any of these men in the VAW ranks. Marine Corpsman did not have to use a gun to be brave, they did not kill people, and they were dependable and brave human beings that would put your L/Cpl Hoffman to shame.

In other words, as far as I am concern, the VAW are nothing more than a collection of liars and cowards!

[enviro]

"your L/Cpl"???? That's insulting....

[jgorosco]

Hey I got out a LCpl. only because there was a freeze in my MOS (6541) at the time. I ain't no ****bird!! At least I don't think so? Just trying to lighten the mood a little. I am sure everyone agrees that if we would have saw this happening with our own eyes, this John Kerry wanna be would have been eating that sign. Except for a small few

SEMPER FI
IYAOYAS

[jegries]

America Land of the Liberals

[jegries]

I wouldn't beat up the LCpl I would just inform him of the Uniform policy of the Marine Corp and the fact he needed to fix himself. He has every right to protest anything he wants just not as a direct representative of the Marine Corp which he was implying by being in the Uniform.

[hrscowboy]

Sgt jegries i think you better check your UCMJ again it dont matter if your in uniform or not as long as your in the Military you have no right to protest what so ever, and you are subject to the UCMJ in uniform or not..

[jgorosco]

So can I make the John Kerry wanna be eat the sign then. Also I wonder if this kid threw his National Defense ribbon into any river?

SEMPER FI
IYAOYAS

[jegries]

I'm doubting the timing of this photo by his ribbons. Given the possibility of this is in Sept the LCpl should have Global War on Terrorism ribbon and he does not. Either Expeditionary or Service. I correct myself it is Article 134-12 Disloyal Statements

[jegries]

The LCpl has the right to protest aslong as it is not against the US or Armed Forces

[jgorosco]

So what is he doing then??

SEMPER FI
IYAOYAS

[jegries]

He is only in violation of the UCMJ cause he is protesting against the US Goverment and the Armed Forces. If it was a protest against anything else like abortion it is allowed outside of the uniform aslong as he does violate a standing order. Anything else is at the descretion of his command although I feel they will roast him alive for the publicity.

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by jgorosco
So what is he doing then??

SEMPER FI
IYAOYAS

Orosco old buddy, he may not even be at an antiwar rally. That is my point. He may very well be an Honor Guard at At Arlington Cemetery, and he may very well be directing protestors away from the ceremony activities, and we have no way of knowing what day this photo was taken.

We are all reacting to a photo of a Marine in Dress Blues telling some protestors to move away, and as the gentleman before has mentioned, the ribbons are not correct.

With modern technology, I could make it look like you are standing next to Hanoi Jane as she sits on that AA Gun, and she will have her hand in your trousers, and in her other hand would be a dog leash leading to your neck. Now, I know that would not be you, but it would look just like the real thing.

I guess I have worked too much Criminal Defense work over the years to take at face value anything in a photograph.

[outlaw3179]

Why dont you guys call CSI ... Im sure theyll crack the case. In any case who cares. Some dumbass lance coolie at the wrong place at the wrong time or some dumbass lance colonel who needs to be "counseled" . Get over it.

[jgorosco]

JPC, can you put me in a photo with Jessica Simpson and JLo laying on a bed. Wanna make my wife a little jealous. Make sure they are touching my man unit.

Outlaw get over what cause I already forgot about it.

SEMPER FI
IYAOYAS

[outlaw3179]

kill

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by jgorosco
JPC, can you put me in a photo with Jessica Simpson and JLo laying on a bed. Wanna make my wife a little jealous. Make sure they are touching my man unit.

Outlaw get over what cause I already forgot about it.

SEMPER FI
IYAOYAS

It was just an example Orosco. :-) And, I am sure your wife would be more than a little Jealous at a photo like that. If she even thought there was a photo like that she may do a Loena Bobick on you. :-)

Outlaw, the idea is to have some sort of proof before you line a guy against a wall and shoot him. We have nothing here!

I am just playing the role of devil's advocate to keep the subject alive. It is good conversation with some merit to it.

[Ed Palmer]

I went through mabe a thousand pictures of the peace march and only found these two pictures
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/Ed15Palmer/84.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/Ed15Palmer/56.jpg

[Joseph P Carey]

Now the top photo does look fake. There are no shadows of the signs and the edges of the signs are to well pronounced while everything around the signs are blurred. Not even to mention the whilte hair on the Soldier and the Sailor. An 84 year old Soldier, Gee, and you would think a Sailor that old would have made it to at least a Chief by now!

And the guy at the bottom is one shot short of a fifth! He must be in the Scotch (and Soda) Army!

[Namvet67]

I can't believe this thread is still going on! No comment needed from me because Joseph P has already explained how I feel about this picture!

[greensideout]

.

[greensideout]

Hummm, does the squid in the photo above have a Marine Corps Good Conduct Medal on his pajamas?

[enviro]

Good eye! He is wearing a MCGC - the NGC has no blue stripe. Both of these homos are uniformly screwed up.

Look, I agree that the LCPL photo could have been "Photoshopped" but I doubt very seriously that any Marine in Dress Blues was "supposed" to be anywhere near this demonstration. Especially leaning on a sign. It ain't happening! If he was there, he was there on his own accord. Funny how we can't find the "original photo anywhere without the comments on the top or bottom of the picture. Somebody should have sourced it instead of coming out and saying "look what I found - and oh yeah, I added the writing at the top and bottom". Where is the original.....

And there is nothing wrong with his ribbon or medal placement. He does not have to have the GWOT medal.

Personnel eligible to receive the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal must have participated or support operations on or after Sept. 11, 2001. Service medal eligibility dates run from Sept. 27, 2001, until May 31, 2002, for individuals who served in airport security operations.

To be awarded the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, individuals must have been deployed outside the United States for OEF or OIF for 30 consecutive days or 60 nonconsecutive days. The time requirement is not needed if the individual engaged in combat, was wounded or killed in action, or was medically evacuated for any reason.

I earned my Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal in the summer of 2003. There are still many who do not have one - I know this seems like 172,000 Marines have gone over there, but believe me - more haven't than have, although that is rapidly changing.

[Joseph P Carey]

Actually Enviro and GSO, That is the Naval Reserve Meritorious Service Medal not the MCGC, the red is too dark a red for the MCGC, it is the only one that would fit the service. It is given for fulfillment with distinction the obligations of inactive reservists during any four consecutive years. A Bronze Service Star is worn for each subsequent award. A Silver Service Star is worn in lieu of 5 Bronze Service Stars.

You guys still are under the impression that this photo was taken during the Septemeber 23-24 demonstrations, and there is no real proof of that. They still bury at the cemetery during all days of the year. It is hard to hold up things like that; dates are set in advance for some of the funerals, and are not likely to be changed for a demonstration in the downtown. It is easy enough to findout if there were any burials on those dates.

[jinelson]

Marine you seem to love to stir the pot and drag a thread out forever. There is nothing wrong with that but I have one question that really bothers me. You were a non commissioned officer of Marines in my Marine Corps and seem to have nothing but time to post about politics and stirring the pot among other Marines. Why have you not posted once a prayer or hope for the well being and recovery of one one of our own brothers that was wounded in combat? Im really at a lose here brother.

Semper Fi :marine:

[Joseph P Carey]

Jim, if you are talking of Seely, I can assure you that I thought I had posted a remark on that thread. If it did not go through, that is a computer glitch on either my part or the computer ISPs part.

As you have seemed to note, I have made remarks to welcome all the grads aboard, and paid my respects to all the fallen comrades in one way or another. Why would I leave out poor Seely?

Being a disabled Marine myself, and having to pack my own wounds in the Naval hospital for a year, I know what this man is going through. I have been there before him. For person reasons, I have not visited the thread since my posting, and I truly do apolgize to the board if the posting did not go through properly.

Like I said, my thoughts are with Seely. I have been there, and I know the pain better than anyone!

Thank you for informing me that my post did not appear in the thread.

As far as me stirring the pot, there is nothing wrong with that. This Marines needs just as much defense as any other Brother Marine does, and there are few here that want to believe the best of this Marine, and I will not leave him to be slandered by others without some sort of proof of his wrong doing.

[MOUNTAINWILLIAM]

IF HE IS AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE ARMED SERVICES, HE DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO PATICIPATE IN CRAP SUCH AS THIS WHILE IN UNIFORM. IN MY OPINION, HE IS GIVING AID AND COMFORT TO THE ENEMY (NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE). THROW HIM OUT, HE IS NOT A MARINE.

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by MOUNTAINWILLIAM
IF HE IS AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE ARMED SERVICES, HE DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO PATICIPATE IN CRAP SUCH AS THIS WHILE IN UNIFORM. IN MY OPINION, HE IS GIVING AID AND COMFORT TO THE ENEMY (NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE). THROW HIM OUT, HE IS NOT A MARINE.

Again, you asxsume he is at a demonstration and not part of an honor detachment shooing some demonstrators away, or a participant in a burial at Arlington!