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thedrifter
09-05-05, 08:03 AM
Get Off His Back (Updated) <br />
By Ben Stein <br />
Published 9/2/2005 11:59:59 PM <br />
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***UPDATED: Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005, 2:13 p.m.*** <br />
<br />
A few truths, for those who have ears and eyes and care to know the...

Ed Palmer
09-05-05, 09:58 AM
The Mayor of New Orleans had a large fleet of yellow school buses and city buses (seen in videos of the city with water up to the windows) that could have been used to move the poor and house bound black community out of the city and 50 miles north, east and west to higher ground. He didn't do a thing to help the poor. The governor had the authority to mobilize the National Guard, but didn't until late in the game. A terrible tragedy, caused by mother nature. New Orleans lies 20' below sea level, soon to be 23' below sea level, caused by global warming and the melting of the polar ice. In all areas of the country, it is forbiden to build or develope property in the flood plain. Here in Wisconsin, banks won't lend money for flood plain construction, insurance companies won't insure property in the flood plain. Why then are we proposing to build huge levies and flood walls and pumping stations, all at the taxpayers expense for an lovely old city that should now be razed and rebuilt on lands above sea level?

Nagalfar
09-05-05, 10:55 AM
Answers and/or points for a few.. <br />
<br />
4. Acutally there is positive proof that this planet has went through many cooling and warming periods.. a little word called geology can and does prove that.. to...

BOOGIEMAN44
09-05-05, 11:39 AM
ELLIE, YOU PUT THAT IN GREAT PROSPECTIVE, I HAVE BEEN SAYING THE SAME THING SINCE ALL THIS HAPPENED, AND GOING AS FAR AS TO ARGUE WITH MY STEP MOTHER OVER THIS WHOLE THING, AND BACKING UP PRESIDENT BUSH, BUT I AM NOT A WORD SCHOLAR, TO PUT IT IN SUCH A FASHION AS THIS, SO KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, AND KEEP ON WRIGHTING WHAT I AM THINKING. I DO FEEL SORRY FOR THE GOOD PEOPLE THAT WAS AFFECTED BY THIS HORRIBLE STORM, BUT YOU ARE RIGHT, PRESIDENT BUSH DID NOT GAZE INTO HIS CRYSTAL BALL AND CONJURE (THANK GOD FOR SPELL CHECKERS) A STORM OF THIS MAGNITUDE, AND AIM IT RIGHT AT NEW ORLEANS, AND YES, WHY DID IT TAKE SO LONG FOR THE MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS TO ORDER THE EVACUATION OF THE CITY? YES, HE HAD ALL THOSE BUSSES, TO GET THE PEOPLE OUT, THE MAYOR HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO EVACUATE THE CITY, AND NOW HE WANT'S TO BLAM AND POINT FINGERS, WHY DIDN'T SOMEONE HELP US? AS MAYOR, YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO TELL THE PEOPLE OF YOUR CITY TO GET OUT, YOU CONTROL THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH, YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO GET STATE ASSISTANT FROM THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, SO WHAT HAPPENED? IF YOU SEEN SOMETHING THAT BIG, COMING AT YOU THAT FAST, WHY WOULD YOU NOT TELL YOUR PEOPLE TO GET OUT? IF YOU CAN'T GET OUT, WE'LL GET YOU OUT, IF NEW ORLEANS DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH BUSSES, I,M SURE, IF THE CALL WENT OUT, SOMEONE, OR OTHER PART'S OF THE STATE OR OTHER STATES, WOULD HAVE SENT BUSSES, IT'S TIME THE MAYOR, AND OTHER CITY OFFICIALS, THE REV. JACKSON AND EVEN THE REPORTERS, STOP THE BLAME GAME, AND GET TO FIXING THE PROBLEM, AND QUIT BEING PART OF THE PROBLEM.

Joseph P Carey
09-05-05, 12:17 PM
Nagalfar, <br />
<br />
Perhaps I will disagree with you on the matter of FEMA. I have no great love for the Washington type National Assistance Organizations, but we are a country of laws, and, with tongue in...

BOOGIEMAN44
09-05-05, 12:31 PM
I FORGOT A POINT...I HEARD ON TV THAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING A COMPUTER SIMULATION FOR A WHILE ON A HURRICANE EVEN COMING CLOSE TO NEW ORLEANS, THAT ALL THIS WOULD TAKE PLACE, SHOULD THAT NOT HAVE GIVE "SOMEONE" A HEADS UP, AND ALL OF THIS WOULD TAKE PLACE?

GunnyL
09-05-05, 05:30 PM
I like the way everybody tries to say that the US had more aid on the ground right after the Tsunami than they had in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast States. Can anyone tell me how long it took for the first US Ships to arrive on scene during the tsunami? I'll be willing to put money on the fact that it took a couple of days for the ships to steam from their locations to get to the disaster areas. It also should be noted that the Navy and US Marines have forces deployed aboard ships floating in the Mediteranian and Pacific Oceans on a constant basis that can respond to any crisis that should occur. We don't have Navy/Marine Corps Task Forces floating in the Gulf of Mexico. I'd also be willing to bet that the Heads of State of the countries affected by the Tsunami were quicker to authorize aid from the US than the Governors of the States of Louisiana and Mississippi were to request Federal Assistance.
JPC, excellent points and very appropriately worded.

GunnyL

GunnyL
09-05-05, 05:38 PM
I did a little research, the Tsunami hit on the 26th of December, the first US Aircraft carriers arrived on scene on the 1st of January. So all of you Stupid Democrats repeating the crap from your liberal buddies in the media can stick it!

GunnyL

BOOGIEMAN44
09-05-05, 05:41 PM
WELL PUT GUNNY

Nagalfar
09-05-05, 06:24 PM
GunnyL, aid was AIR LIFTED from Australia via C130's, untill the fleet arrived, there were aid stations set up and being set up within 6 HOURS of it happening, Aussies had aid arriving within 4 HOURS, and search and rescue.. while fleet (USS Abraham Lincoln, along with some other vessels I can provide you with the names and dates in which they were ordered to provide aid if you like) did arrive with the majority of aid.. there was still an air lift ongoing from Australia.. this is not a republican or a democrat issue.. this is a American issue of right and wrong.. these are Americans we are talking about.. and if we cant help our own countrymen faster or at least as fast as we help others.. then we as a nation deserve to get what will no doubt come..

and if I am take reference from "Stupid Democrats, repeating the crap from your liberal buddies in the media can stick it!" is aimed at me, friend I am neither one of those parties.. I dont defend either party, as I think truths can be found of either side, and lies as well.. for me its a matter of what is right rather than who is right.. I am more commonly called a constitionalist at voting time, I took a oath to defend it, and I still try to do so by the way I vote, the letters I write, and the works I do, I could care less about either party, its is my opinion those parties are one of the root problems in America, they devide America, as a nation we should be standing together.. the very people you accuse of making this a "politcal issue", does your response not do the same? Brother its a right and wrong issue nothing more.. we as a nation let some of our own starve and drown.. and the worst part is they are the ones who were least able to defend themselves.. the elderly in the effected areas, they will be the majority of the body count when this is all done, and as far as Presidents go, I would trade President Bush for President Reagan in a New York second.

Joseph P Carey
09-05-05, 07:38 PM
Nagalfar,

I don't mean to argue with you, but it still comes down to a very basic law, The Posse Comitatus Act! The President's hands were tied until there was a formal request by the Governors, or an act of Congress. Then, and only then, could the President order US Troops into the area. The Coast Guard does not need those orders, and for want of a government agency, the Coast Guard acquitted themselves well. Well Done, Coast Guard!

But, again, I must reiterated, FEMA was moving to another project when the flooding occurred in NO, 24 hours after the storm hit, and downtown NO was a 'No man's Land' thanks mainly to the lack of political inaction of the mayor of the city, not the Feds. The Feds had bigger fish to fry, so they thought, in the Gulf Coast areas.

Even today, the President is in LA and the Gulf Coast area, and the Governors did not even know it, except from what they saw on TV news reports! It should tell you of what the communication is like in that area. No one is even talking to the Governor, and they may have their reasons for it!

Actually, I am surprised that the opposition is not crying, "Photo Op!" as the President goes about his work of being the President of the United States.

CHOPPER7199
09-05-05, 11:20 PM
JPC, I HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU ON YOUR THOUGHTS, AFTER REVIEWING ALOT OF THE INFO. ON LINE AND THE MEDIA,SURE SEEMS TO ME THE BRAINS WERE NOT WORKING BY THE POWERS TO BE IN THE STATE OR CITY GOVERNMENT. I HAVE ONE THOUGHT ON THE CLEAN UP. WILL THEY GET THEM YOUNG HEALTHY BODY ONES TO COME BACK AND HELP FOR THE CLEAN UP AND EARN THEIR WELFARE CHECK?

Joseph P Carey
09-06-05, 02:19 AM
Ain't no way Chopper, they (The young bloods) have gone the way of the buses, and they are hunting better game in new cities. Coming to a city near you, 'Con-men of New Orleans!' They have a story, they have a style, and they have their hands out!

GySgtRet
09-06-05, 01:53 PM
GunnyL,

All right Gunny...Damn straight...!!!

Semper Fidelis

Osotogary
09-06-05, 02:52 PM
Has anybody yet called Hurricane Katrina racist? Mother nature takes a blind eye when it comes to natural disasters.
I say give everyone who is finger pointing and passing the buck some sacks, a shovel and send them to the Gulf Coast for clean up duty. Let them moan and groan all they want while they are physically helping out with the cleanup and reconstruction.
I really don't care for the all talk-no show cadre of political or personal opportunists that find disasters a forum for their personal agenda. Let the reconstruction begin with everyone contributing positively.

1shot1kill
09-06-05, 03:56 PM
I agree with Gunny L's comments. Just saw SPenn onTV--- some body put him out of his misery. He bashing President Bush as usually same way he did when he was in Iraq. Oparah is going to do the same thing.........


OEF-OIF
SEMPER FI

hrscowboy
09-06-05, 04:14 PM
Well my 2 cents on this is to bulldoze the entire city and start over only this time make levys that are going to hold under any type of storm. None of those homes or business are going to be fit to live in or do business out of because of the sewage and the mold and so on. There are going to be so many deceases coming from that place that the only real thing to do is bull doze it completely to the ground and start over.....

GunnyL
09-06-05, 04:27 PM
Why build levees hrscowboy, just turn it into the waste dump it is and when you've deposited enough trash to get it above sea level, rebuild!!!

GunnyL

onlyamarine
09-06-05, 04:30 PM
didn't they army corps of engineers show the people what a Category 5 hurricane would do to their levies? They ignored it to make cuts to their budgets.

GunnyL
09-06-05, 06:37 PM
Wrong onlyamarine, the levies wern't downgraded to save money in the budget. They were designed for Category 3 from the day they were in the planning stages back in the 1960's.

GunnyL

enviro
09-06-05, 09:02 PM
The only differences that need to be made between the tsunami and katrina is that the people in a 3rd world country weren't out sniping innocent people, raping little girls in the shelter bathrooms, car jacking, looting Best Buy, killing police officers, beating reporters and stealing their equipment, screaming racism, shooting at the help that did arrive, pillaging hospitals, setting buildings on fire, etc, etc.....

I hope these criminals get every disease known to man and die a horrible and agonizing death. I have no love love for these idiots....

Joseph P Carey
09-06-05, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by enviro
The only differences that need to be made between the tsunami and katrina is that the people in a 3rd world country weren't out sniping innocent people, raping little girls in the shelter bathrooms, car jacking, looting Best Buy, killing police officers, beating reporters and stealing their equipment, screaming racism, shooting at the help that did arrive, pillaging hospitals, setting buildings on fire, etc, etc.....

I hope these criminals get every disease known to man and die a horrible and agonizing death. I have no love love for these idiots....

Truthfully, I hope they come down with a case of Lead Poisoning!

onlyamarine
09-07-05, 07:31 AM
Gunny,
Never said that they were downgraded. After the Army Corps of Engineers provided that information, they ignored doing anything to UPGRADE them to withstand a category 5. Thanks for the info. Thanks for keeping me in check.

GySgtRet
09-07-05, 08:42 AM
Being the levies were never built to take the storm surge of a Cat 5. The mayor new this then and I v'e never heard of the mayor or governor asking for this to take a Cat 5. This seems like a cleansing thing to me. The most vulnerable people that have nothing, maybe this was worth waiting for for the local and state governments...??? I know that it sounds bad but GEZ give me a break here.

OLE SARG
09-07-05, 08:58 AM
Well said Gary. Fatasses jesse jackson and al sharpton both could stand to lose a lot of weight. If they get skinny they can stick their heads up their ass and we won't hear anymore out of their pie holes!!! They are BOTH opportunitist racists!!!!!!!!

Mr $.02 worth.

SEMPER FI,
OLE SARG

Ed Palmer
09-07-05, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by Osotogary
Has anybody yet called Hurricane Katrina racist? Mother nature takes a blind eye when it comes to natural disasters.
.


We dont know yet Has anybody heard from Jessie Jackoff Jackson

yellowwing
09-08-05, 11:59 AM
9.) There is not the slightest evidence at all that the war in Iraq has diminished the response of the government to the emergency. To say otherwise is pure slander.
Fort Polk Louisiana (only 150 miles from New Orleans) only mustered 5 helicopters (http://www.leesvilledailyleader.com/articles/2005/09/07/news/news3.txt) and 150 troops (http://www.newswatch50.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=F3F55176-92B0-4109-847A-8394D88113C3).

But the most "slanderous" has to be
Mexican Troops Aid Katrina Efforts (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168778,00.html).

Joseph P Carey
09-08-05, 12:13 PM
And... They probably would have helped (Mexican Troops Aid Katrina Efforts) had not the Border Patrol arrested them and sent them back across the border at the first checkpoint!

All kidding aside, Thank you Republic of Mexico for your neighborly assistance!

As far as the LANG, they would have sat there forever, all 150 of them, because the Governor never ordered them into New Orleans, until way too late!

yellowwing
09-08-05, 12:57 PM
It was requested the previous Friday, August 26th according to the DOD Press Briefing (http://www.dod.gov/transcripts/2005/tr20050901-3843.html)

Q General, Jamie McIntyre from CNN. To what extent is this additional assistance you've outlined today a response to a request from the state governors in Louisiana, Mississippi? And if so, can you tell us when specifically you got that request?

GEN. HONORÉ: Yes, sir. The process starts, sir, in this particular event, with a request Friday of last week
The bulk of the troops in Fort Polk are 10th Mountain elements prepping to go to Afghanistan, while the LANG is just now returning from overseas.

I'd trust the word of LtGen Honore before Matt Drudge and Rushbo on military matters.

Donald Bowers
09-08-05, 01:48 PM
My problem is: If we can get help to the tsunami in 16 to 18 hours, than why in the hell does it take 4 day to get help to our guulf coast!!!!!!!

Devildogg4ever
09-08-05, 04:51 PM
I tend to agree with enviro & Joseph P Carey!!! Hate to see them get away with it! http://downsouthhunting.com/images/smiles/smiley_nutkick_ani.gif

Joseph P Carey
09-08-05, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Donald Bowers
My problem is: If we can get help to the tsunami in 16 to 18 hours, than why in the hell does it take 4 day to get help to our guulf coast!!!!!!!

First of all, we didn't get help to the Tsunami Victims first, the Aussie's did! Let's not take credit for something we did not do!

As far as why not NO? Politics! Elected Officials not knowing what to do in a disaster! I have to take a look at two distinct and seperate areas. Mississippi and Louisiana. The Governor of MS was telling people where they could pick-up their state checks on Wednesday ( http://www.governorbarbour.com/KatrinaState.htm ). The Governor of LA could not tell you where the LANG was on Wednesday ( http://www.lapolitics.com/index.php ) The first LANG Units rolled into NO on Thursday. The people of MS organized to assist others; the people of NO and LA were disorganized and assisted no one. The people of MS accepted help from others; the people of NO turned away trailor loads of bottled water from Walmart!

The only saving grace for the State of LA was the US Coast Guard (a Federal Organization). Well done Coast Guard!!!

yellowwing
09-08-05, 05:09 PM
Did you miss the part where LtGen Honore acknowledged that Louisiana called for help the previous Friday.

Joseph P Carey
09-08-05, 05:56 PM
My dear brother Wing, did you miss the part where the US Government can not enter unless requested by the governor of a state under the Posse Comitatus Act. Added, the storm missed NO, and there was no great disaster in No until 24 hours after the storm, while people in the Mississippi and Alabama area were in great need of assistance. Government agencies do not turn on a dime.

The fact that the LA Gov called for assistance on Friday before the storm hit, and the storm missed, nullified the original request. The State of LA had sufficient National Guard Troops to handle the situation on Monday morning, but it is strange that the flooding occurred on Monday, and the LANG did not arrive until Thursday. This mainly because the LA Gov did not know where the LANG was, and she never gave orders to go into the city. There was no communication between the LA Gov and The MoNO (Mayor of New Orleans). The MONO was stockpiling people at the SuperDome, and never told anyone that the Convention Center was filling with People that threw the NOPD out of the area. He was to busy covering his own inadequacies, and not working for the people of NO.


Those people sat and waited for the LANG, which did not come until Thursday!

Meanwhile, the only helicopters in the air over NO were painted Orange. They were the Coast Guard! The Coast Guard was operating within two hours of the flooding of the city, and you can not tell me that the MONO could not get a message to the LA Gov over a Coast Guard Radio.

Perhaps you can tell me what happened to the NOPD's Helicopter? Also, tell me what happened to the LANG Helicopters you speak of sitting north of the city?

The US Government was there in the Person of the Coast Guard, and no one else was! Again, Well done Coast Guard! No one has given these guys the credit they deserve. They did one hell of a job, and they kept the city from going down the tubes completely.

What do you say gentlemen? A little OoRah for the Coasties! Brave and dedicated men and women one and all!

yellowwing
09-08-05, 08:00 PM
No it did not nullify the Louisiana Gov't State of Emergency declared on Friday the 26th. She sent a request to the White House on Saturday the 27th and they immediately responded with an Emergency Declaration backdating it to the 26th.

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html)
The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

The Feds took responsibility, backdated it (probably for legal reasons) and most importantly added the 'continuing' verbiage. No nullification.

Meanwhile the available LANG, all 5 helicopters were on rescue missions. She did write another letter requesting that the bulk of the LANG be assigned to disaster relief when they returned from Afghanistan.

Its not MONO or LAG's fault. FEMA and Homeland Security just were not up to the task this time around.

Hundreds of firefighters from around the country are still stuck in Atlanta going through FEMA Red Tape (http://www.klfy.com/Global/story.asp?S=3813963).

Nagalfar
09-08-05, 08:29 PM
Am I to understand J.P. Carey, that unless the State Gov. is smart enough to request help from the Feds, you think the Feds should just stand by and wait? at what level of a body count would make it ok for them to do what is right even when they have not been asked to do so? 1? 100? 1000? how many? and, I am very aware of the laws in regards to the feds intervening when they are not invited, should the feds just stand by and watch Americans die because the idiot at the switch is asleep, or is just plain too stupid to yell for help? how bad does it PIS* all of us here off when we watch some wanna be 3rd world thug on the news killing Americans?, and yet our govt. does nothing, thus, adding even more insult to injury? dead is dead, and watching Americans die, is watching Americans die, intent dont mean a thing when the end is the same.. dead is dead, be it some wanna be tough guy or our own govt. watching and waiting.. how many credits does one get for intentions?

Based on this theory, I hope that you never have anyone you care about drowning in a lake that is posted no swimming.. with a bunch of "absolute law abiding citizens" standing by unwilling to break the law to save the person drowning.

I will leave you a quote from one of this nations founders.. "Absolute law, is the most unjust of all laws"... I think that means you DON'T have to stand by and watch people die if saving them is against the law..

GySgtRet
09-08-05, 09:29 PM
Nagalfar,

The governor of the state that is effected by a disater manmade or natural has to declare that part(s) a distaster area and request help from FEMA, etc.. Remember the days of President Ragan please. The states spoke of their statehood and wanted big govern ent out of their business. This is supposed to reduce the welfare state...??? Not in LA it didn't. I do not have stats on all of this but I vividly remeber the response of President Ragan.. God rest his soul. Damn good president.

Semper Fidelis

Joseph P Carey
09-08-05, 09:55 PM
Brother Wing, There were 900 LANG available for operations within miles of the City of NO, and they did not arrive until Thursday for no other reason other than they were not ordered into the city....

yellowwing
09-08-05, 10:10 PM
On the 27th, according to the White House press releases, the emergency was declared at the National level and FEMA and Homeland Security had responsibility then. They did not live up to thier duties.

Even the Boss said their initial response was "unacceptable".

Nagalfar
09-08-05, 10:20 PM
GySgtRet, I agree totally in principal, but, let me say this.. I would do what ever it would take to save lives, as long as it didnt cost life's to save life's, I would do it, rules be damned, and if cost me my job.. so be it, I can get another one.

greensideout
09-08-05, 10:26 PM
JPC, where did you get the info on the five year old child being killed?

Joseph P Carey
09-08-05, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Nagalfar
Am I to understand J.P. Carey, that unless the State Gov. is smart enough to request help from the Feds, you think the Feds should just stand by and wait? at what level of a body count would make it ok for them to do what is right even when they have not been asked to do so? 1? 100? 1000? how many? and, I am very aware of the laws in regards to the feds intervening when they are not invited, should the feds just stand by and watch Americans die because the idiot at the switch is asleep, or is just plain too stupid to yell for help? how bad does it PIS* all of us here off when we watch some wanna be 3rd world thug on the news killing Americans?, and yet our govt. does nothing, thus, adding even more insult to injury? dead is dead, and watching Americans die, is watching Americans die, intent dont mean a thing when the end is the same.. dead is dead, be it some wanna be tough guy or our own govt. watching and waiting.. how many credits does one get for intentions?

Based on this theory, I hope that you never have anyone you care about drowning in a lake that is posted no swimming.. with a bunch of "absolute law abiding citizens" standing by unwilling to break the law to save the person drowning.

I will leave you a quote from one of this nations founders.. "Absolute law, is the most unjust of all laws"... I think that means you DON'T have to stand by and watch people die if saving them is against the law..

You are to understand that this is a country of Constitutional Law! These laws are enacted by an act of Congress! No one said they had to make sense, but as I see it, the Government was already involved, and without the Coast Guard there would have been no action what-so-ever in NO!

Watching people die is nothing new to us; we have done it before, because we were constrained by law and politics. As it was, the NO authorities were not too very keen about enforcing law in their own city, and they allowed murderers to get on buses and be transported away from their crimes to other US Cities. There was food available in the city of NO, and it was not gathered up and made available for the residents, because it may have been a fight with the local gangs.

It has nothing to do with absolute law; it has to do with the fact that there was no law in NO! The criminal, not the authorities, was running the city! The State of Louisiana did not send in their own troops until Thursday, why should anyone else have done so to protect the egos of LA Politicians.

I am sorry that the people of NO died, but there was nothing that could have been done, without the City and State doing their part first.

As it was, the hurricane had past 24 hours previous to the flooding, and the different FEMA people were not needed, and other people did need them. New Orleans was not the only people affected by the storm, just the largest concentration of people! Other cities and government did not fall apart like NO did, and other leaders did not fail their population the way the NO did!

The Government of the USA is responsible for other people other than politicians that do not know how to do their job. Again, Posse Comitatus is the Law, and it is to be respected, with exception, when Congress meets and says other wise, and they did not do that! Not Theory, Brother Negalfar, but Laws and agreements that have made this country what it is, a Constitutional Republic of States bound by laws not personal feelings!

Joseph P Carey
09-08-05, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by greensideout
JPC, where did you get the info on the five year old child being killed?

You will read it, unless the media does not wish to print it, and make a big deal of it.

yellowwing
09-08-05, 10:40 PM
LtGen Honore in his DOD Briefing (http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2005/tr20050901-3843.html) further confirms that the National Guard was rolling the next day after the National Emergency was declared. Meaning Sunday. LAG asked for it Friday evening.

HONORÉ: Yeah, that was incremental. The security force piece was executed through a process called EMAC [Emergency Management Assistance Compact]. That started on Sunday, a collaboration between the [states' National Guard] adjutant general and the National Guard Bureau to flow additional capabilities to Louisiana and to Mississippi.

That flow started approximately around Sunday. Forces started moving once the eye of the hurricane had passed and we could start moving forces in and assist the states, Alabama pushed forces into Mississippi as well as forces from Texas started to flow into Louisiana, as well as other states.


Dangit Joseph! Are you going to make me look up all this stuff?

greensideout
09-08-05, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Joseph P Carey


You will read it, unless the media does not wish to print it, and make a big deal of it.

You are right, if the spin of the story fits the agenda of the media it will be printed, if not it won't but that is not what I ask. Where did you get that info? Why should I believe it?

yellowwing
09-08-05, 11:06 PM
That story is in another Leatherneck thread (http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&threadid=22022). The first record I see of it was September 6th in the New Orleans paper Times-Picayune (http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09.html#077206). It was an unconfirmed eyewitness account from inside the convention center. The little girl was obviously dead nonetheless.

greensideout
09-08-05, 11:37 PM
Disturbng story to say the least.

Joseph P Carey
09-09-05, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by yellowwing
LtGen Honore in his DOD Briefing (http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2005/tr20050901-3843.html) further confirms that the National Guard was rolling the next day after the National Emergency was declared. Meaning Sunday. LAG asked for it Friday evening.


Dangit Joseph! Are you going to make me look up all this stuff?

Brother Wing, Should I start Rolling from Baton Rouge on a Monday, depending on how many times my head hit the ground, does not necessarily mean that I would be in New Orleans any time before Thursday. Note: No reports of the LANG in NO before Thursday! Maybe a couple of officers, but no troops, and no equipment!

Joseph P Carey
09-09-05, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by yellowwing
LtGen Honore in his DOD Briefing (http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2005/tr20050901-3843.html) further confirms that the National Guard was rolling the next day after the National Emergency was declared. Meaning Sunday. LAG asked for it Friday evening.


Dangit Joseph! Are you going to make me look up all this stuff?

Brother Wing, I did a little research and this is what I found.

To seize control of the mission, Mr. Bush would have had to invoke the Insurrection Act, which allows the president in times of unrest to command active-duty forces into the states to perform law enforcement duties. But decision makers in Washington felt certain that Ms. Blanco would have resisted surrendering control, as Bush administration officials believe would have been required to deploy active-duty combat forces before law and order had been re-established.

While combat troops can conduct relief missions without the legal authority of the Insurrection Act, Pentagon and military officials say that no active-duty forces could have been sent into the chaos of New Orleans on Wednesday or Thursday without confronting law-and-order challenges.

But just as important to the administration were worries about the message that would have been sent by a president ousting a Southern governor of another party from command of her National Guard, according to administration, Pentagon and Justice Department officials.

"Can you imagine how it would have been perceived if a president of the United States of one party had pre-emptively taken from the female governor of another party the command and control of her forces, unless the security situation made it completely clear that she was unable to effectively execute her command authority and that lawlessness was the inevitable result?"

Officials in Louisiana agree that the governor would not have given up control over National Guard troops in her state as would have been required to send large numbers of active-duty soldiers into the area. But they also say they were desperate and would have welcomed assistance by active-duty soldiers.

On the issue of whether the military could be deployed without the invitation of state officials, the Office of Legal Counsel, the unit within the Justice Department that provides legal advice to federal agencies, concluded that the federal government had authority to move in even over the objection of local officials.

This act was last invoked in 1992 for the Los Angeles riots, but at the request of Gov. Pete Wilson of California, and has not been invoked over a governor's objections since the civil rights era - and before that, to the time of the Civil War. The Bush administration, Pentagon and senior military officials warned that such an extreme measure would have serious legal and political implications.

Deployment of National Guard soldiers to Iraq, including a brigade from Louisiana, did not affect the relief mission, but Ms. Blanco disagreed.

"Over the last year, we have had about 5,000 out, at one time," she said. "They are on active duty, serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. That certainly is a factor."

By Friday, National Guard reinforcements had arrived, and a truck convoy of 1,000 Guard soldiers brought relief supplies - and order - to the convention center area days after the NOPD had lost the city to the criminals. As I read it, LA NG arrived on Thursday, and they too could not control the Convention Ceter.

There is still no Marshall Law in NO, because the politicians are afraid politically to use it! It matters not what MONO says, the NG does not believe it exists in the city!

GySgtRet
09-09-05, 05:31 AM
Nagalfar,

And I would do the same. Because I am not worried about political pressure. I don't give a damn if my actions would save somebody's life or not at least I would have given it a try before it was too late.

Semper Fidelis

yellowwing
09-09-05, 10:25 AM
Officials in Louisiana agree that the governor would not have given up control over National Guard troops in her state as would have been required to send large numbers of active-duty soldiers into the area. But they also say they were desperate and would have welcomed assistance by active-duty soldiers.

You may have something there, Joseph. "But they also say...", what kind of statement is that for the Governors office? That sounds FUBAR.

Ed Palmer
09-09-05, 01:14 PM
Bush wants to know whats the problem? the fishing great.
You dont evan have to leave town to catch your limit

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/Ed15Palmer/bush_orleans.jpg

Joseph P Carey
09-09-05, 01:30 PM
Loved it, Ed!

CplCrotty
09-09-05, 02:25 PM
That's classic!

Nagalfar
09-09-05, 02:35 PM
That is too funny... great one Ed..

Ed Palmer
09-09-05, 04:15 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/Ed15Palmer/3129.jpg

redneck13
09-09-05, 06:01 PM
"BLAME GAME." "KING GEORGE?" "HOW CAN HE BE BLAMED?" "GREAT GOING MS. ELLIE." "YOU PUT IT RIGHT ON THE BUTTON FOR ME."
Without "HURRICANES?" "THE EARTH WOULD BURN UP." Scientific fact. They do something along the "equator" to balance things.
People need to start re-thinking, re-doing, plans for any disaster. Be it the Gov. of a State, or whomever. There is no blame for human error. As we are just human. And we all make mistakes.
If they knew that someday "again" New Orleans would take a blow? Why didn't somebody learn from it? My question/or interlude is this; "WHAT DO YOU THINK THE TERRORIST'S ARE WATCHING?" "BOY HOWDY...." "THEY SEE HOW SO MUCH WENT WRONG, HOW UN-PREPARED OUR NATION IS FOR ANY DISASTER."
This is what bother's me. They, "TERRORIST'S" aren't stupid. And we need to "WAKE UP!!" "THE NEXT DISASTER MIGHT NOT BE THE WEATHER." "GOD HELP US ALL."