Socom

[Covey_Rider]

anyone know if SOCOM includes our Force Recon guys???

[USMCgrunt0331]

Negative-Marine Corps doesn't like being under the command of anybody else so they've tried to stay out of it so they can do their own thing. But in a recent Marine Times their cover story was about how the Marine Corps is forming a special unit that will supposively be included in SOCOM, something a lot of senior Marines are against apparently, b/c it takes away the best Marines out of regular units and stuff. Alot of what this new unit will be doing is training foreign military from what it says, and will consist of several fields, not all just grunts.

[sgt.lane]

Neither one or two include them that i am aware of-not familiar with the on line version though.......

[USMCgrunt0331]

Okay---lol---are we talkin about actual SOCOM or the video games?

[Covey_Rider]

we're talkin about actual SOCOM...no not the video game haha

[Covey_Rider]

i'm not talking about the video game at all. talking about the combined forces of the Navy, Army, and the Air Force....Special Operations Command...no i'm not talking about the video game

[Joseph P Carey]

Maybe, this will help, but I really think that the Marines should stay out of this, otherwise the Marines will lose control of Forced Recon, like the Navy lost control of the SEAL:

http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/10-235.asp

Marine Corps Detachment 1 1/7/2004 8:53:52 PM
June 24, 2003
Special operations unit goes to work
By Gidget Fuentes
Special to the Times

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. - It’s official — the Marine Corps’ new special-operations force is up and running.
Known as “Marine Corps Detachment 1,” the unit was activated in Friday afternoon ceremony here, marking the start of a test that eventually could make Marines a permanent part of the elite world of U.S. special operations.
Though they will be working with Navy SEAL commandos for the time being, the unit will be attached to the U.S. Special Operations Command, the unified command that is home also to the Army’s Special Forces, Army Rangers and Air Force special operations teams.
The Marine detachment in October will join the SEALs of Naval Special Warfare Squadron 1 at Coronado Naval Base, Calif., where they will train alongside their Navy counterparts before the joint unit deploys overseas in April.
The Marine Corps’ top officer in the Pacific region, Lt. Gen. Earl B. Hailston, presided over the Friday activation ceremony, held at a small parade ground framed by a trio of temporary buildings and surrounded by a security fence.
The commander of Marine Forces Pacific said the detachment “takes the first step” in developing a newly forged relationship between the Marine Corps and the special-ops command “by providing a light, fast and more mobile ready to deploy with enhanced capability force than we’ve had in the past.”
As the concept for a Marine special-ops detachment began taking shape in late 2001, Marines already were working with special operators in Afghanistan, where Task Force 58 was scouring southern Afghanistan for al-Qaida terrorists and Taliban militia.
As a test unit that ultimately could lead to a larger Marine presence at Special Operations Command, “this unit will be closely watched every step of the way,” Hailston said.
“The Marines and sailors in this detachment understand that in this profession, there are no points for second place,” Hailston said, later telling the men: “Good hunting.”
The unit will be commanded by Lt. Col. Robert J. Coates, a colonel-select. Coates’ men will hit the ground running, first training at their team and platoon levels before joining with the Navy SEALs and naval special-warfare crews this fall for joint training.
About 200 people attended the activation ceremony, including Michael A. Westphal, a former Marine now serving as deputy assistant secretary of defense for special operations and combating terrorism; Rear Adm. Bert Calland, the top Navy SEAL and commander of Naval Special Warfare Command; and former Marine Commandant Gen. P.X. Kelley.
Lt. Col. Giles Kyser, who was the point man in developing the concept, said the assessment will decide “what it will turn into.” Kyser is with the Marine Air Ground Task Force special-operations section of the plans, policy and operations branch of Marine Corps headquarters in Washington.
The unit has more than 21 “core capabilities,” including deep ground reconnaissance, human intelligence exploitation, underwater and parachute operations, counterintelligence and imagery collection.
Master Sgt. Jim Rutan, the detachment’s senior enlisted Marine, is optimistic that the reconnaissance Marines he became familiar with while serving as a reconnaissance Marine assignments coordinator at Marine Corps headquarters will play a key role in special operations in the future

[USMCgrunt0331]

LMAO---OK then I think I've answered your question. Some other guys may be able to add something about it.

[USMCgrunt0331]

My opinion-the navy seals and Marine Special Ops teams aren't going to work together well for obvious reasons. To many big egos, competiveness and testosterone in one place. They will be bickering and fighting trying to prove who's tougher or better at this and that and trying to upstage one another and the teamwork just won't be that great. Maybe I'll be totally wrong, but that's my prediction.

[Covey_Rider]

ok yeah that answers my question...got another one tho lol...i was talking w/some people that said that one of their friends sons lost his leg while being apart of Delta Force. I was under the impressiont that Delta Force was a "myth"/classified info...or is this new unit being referred to as Delta Force?

[Covey_Rider]

yeah idk how well they'll work together...hopefully they'll have enough respect for each other to set everything aside and get the job done

[USMCgrunt0331]

Delta Force isn't a myth-it's an actual Army unit. The unit was in the movie Black Hawk Down. The army used to deny it's existence but it's now no secret that the army has Delta Force. You can find them if you research them on the internet.

[Covey_Rider]

ohhh ok gotcha...i didnt know if it was something that hollywood made up or not...but yeah thanx

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by Covey_Rider
yeah idk how well they'll work together...hopefully they'll have enough respect for each other to set everything aside and get the job done

If you are talkin of the article I placed in the thread, and my remarks, it has nothing to do with service rivalry. It has to do with Command and Control of Force Recon.

The Marines would do well to look at what happened to the SEALs when SOCOM came online.

SEALs were spawned from UDT and eventually absorbed them. This was okay, because the navy still had use of them for beach-and-shore recon, underwater demo, and maritime sabotage, the missions that are actually important to the fleet.

Now SEALs belong to SOCOM, and the fleet has to beg for their time, and finds that they are not much interested in doing maritime missions anymore. Did anyone else notice the irony of a SEAL getting killed in Afganistan?

Now the Navy as re-recognized the need for combat swimmers, and has had to spend a tanker of money to re-create UDT functions in the EOD teams. If the Corps commits Force Recon to SOCOM, they will find themselves doing the same thing in 10 years.

[GunnyL]

If you'll notice in the Article above, the Marine Corps Created a Special Unit to attach to SOCOM instead of Committing Force Reconnaisance.

GunnyL

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by GunnyL
If you'll notice in the Article above, the Marine Corps Created a Special Unit to attach to SOCOM instead of Committing Force Reconnaisance.

GunnyL

Gunny L,

I did read that, but these things have a way of snowballing, and I would not like to see Force Recon become involved in this to the detriment of the US Marines! Plus, this article was written two years ago, and there is no telling what has happened in the last two years. My personal opinion is that the Marines should just stay out of Special Ops, it is only a 'Pull toy' for the CIA!

[THATFEMALE]

As long as we have US MARINES, "World's Finest", we will have no need for SOCOM. We are not a not a branch, we're a breed and we don't like to mingle. Look how long we have survived on our own. To disrupt a family that works so well would be stupid. Semper FI Marines.

[POOLEE003OCT24]

im applying for force recon duing / after my soi training. i was 1 point away from it so they waived it.

[Osotogary]

Covey_Rider,
There is a book, actually quite a few, on the "Delta Force" in the Ft. Lauderdale public library system. Perhaps, scoping out your public library system will net you a few jewels on the subject.

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by POOLEE003OCT24
im applying for force recon duing / after my soi training. i was 1 point away from it so they waived it.

With all due respect recruit! First! Get out of Boot Camp.

There are other units used as a stepping stones up to the FR, for instance, Battalion Recon, or Line Company training! I do not know if things have changed that much in the Corps, and very few things with any meaning ever change in the Marines, but it was my experience that FR takes from experienced Marines that have some time in grade, at least, a little salt in their veins and on some on their uniforms.

[Gunny McMillan]

Originally posted by Joseph P Carey


With all due respect recruit! First! Get out of Boot Camp.

There are other units used as a stepping stones up to the FR, for instance, Battalion Recon, or Line Company training! I do not know if things have changed that much in the Corps, and very few things with any meaning ever change in the Marines, but it was my experience that FR takes from experienced Marines that have some time in grade, at least, a little salt in their veins and on some on their uniforms.

Bingo. While it's a possibility, your chances are slim to nill in my experience. Generally speaking, the best operators from Battalion Recon are the ones most likely to be get into Force. There used to be a program for "highly qualified recruits" where you could enlist with a FR MOS a few years ago, but they've since changed that. Usually, 3 or 4 years in the fleet (preferably as a grunt) will give you the experience you need to have a shot at FR. Aim high POOLEE, but be careful what you wish for.

[Riven37]

Originally posted by USMCgrunt0331
My opinion-the navy seals and Marine Special Ops teams aren't going to work together well for obvious reasons. To many big egos, competiveness and testosterone in one place. They will be bickering and fighting trying to prove who's tougher or better at this and that and trying to upstage one another and the teamwork just won't be that great. Maybe I'll be totally wrong, but that's my prediction.


May I ask a question. How do you know, have you worked with these units ?

[jaysmyhero]

Correct MAR DET 1 is under Socom in hopes to slowly make FR under Socom although there has been MANY joint operations that involve Marines under Socom

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by jaysmyhero
Correct MAR DET 1 is under Socom in hopes to slowly make FR under Socom although there has been MANY joint operations that involve Marines under Socom

Top, You more than anyone knows that it must not happen! There is no loyalty in the CIA, the ultimate Master of SOCOM. After 16 years, you would not abandon the Corps for them, would you?

[jaysmyhero]

ABSOLUTELY NOT, although these Marines are expanding the Marines, and i swear to god i don't know anyone here that would do the stuff they do... believe me. by the way it only consists of about 90 Marines and 5-10 Corpsman. So dont completely lose faith in the Corps especially in these fine Marines.

[Joseph P Carey]

Top, by "...do the stuff they do.." I hope I don't have any any idea of what you are talking about!

[jaysmyhero]

no you dont lol

[Catz1611]

Originally posted by jaysmyhero
ABSOLUTELY NOT, although these Marines are expanding the Marines, and i swear to god i don't know anyone here that would do the stuff they do... believe me. by the way it only consists of about 90 Marines and 5-10 Corpsman. So dont completely lose faith in the Corps especially in these fine Marines. Just wondering who you know in the unit Top?

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by Catz1611
Just wondering who you know in this unit Top?

I would say a Top Sergeant in a FR Unit usually knows pretty much of what is going down in the Corps! If SNCO's don't have an idea of what is going on in the Corps, I would doubt that anyone else would! It is said that the Commandant always asks the SNCO what is happening in the Corps!

[Catz1611]

Originally posted by Joseph P Carey


I would say a Top Sergeant in a FR Unit usually knows pretty much of what is going down in the Corps! If SNCO's don't have an idea of what is going on in the Corps, I would doubt that anyone else would! It is said that the Commandant always asks the SNCO what is happening in the Corps! This is true...I didn't mean any offense..

However..my husband is Part of Det 1 and we've been waiting since November to find out what is going to happen with everything..Nothing definate has come down from the Higher ups about anything..everything so far has just been speculation and rumor.

[Joseph P Carey]

Truthfully Catz, I had one contact with those CIA boys in Vietnam, and I was ready to shoot them and leave them in the jungle! The SOBs were trying to make me famous in all the wrong ways! They have no honor! Being around some of those guys make you want to take a shower! I do not know if they have changed much over the years, but, as far as I am concerned, dogs don't change their spots!

My contention was that I do not want the Marines even remotely associated with those people. It takes a different mind set than the Marines have! They feel they have no boundries, and that is a bad thing for any disciplined Marines, because, once the boundries are gone, there is no Marine left! It may very well be good fortune that DET 1 has not had any involvement as yet!

For the record, I am no Boy Scout, I saw enough fighting and killing, but everything I did, I am proud of!

[jaysmyhero]

I know a lot of Marines under SOCOM and in Mar Det 1 but as you know i can't disclose names or whatever just believe me I've seen a lot of their training and most of them are fresh FR Marines just out of Bttln.

[Catz1611]

Originally posted by jaysmyhero
I know a lot of Marines under SOCOM and in Mar Det 1 but as you know i can't disclose names or whatever just believe me I've seen a lot of their training and most of them are fresh FR Marines just out of Bttln. so are you speaking of two different groups here? And when you say "Fresh, just out of BN"..are you saying that the Marines are younger?
Please don't take offense, I'm just trying to get a better understanding of what you're saying..:bunny:

[jaysmyhero]

I am speaking of 2 different groups. and quite a few of the Marines in Mar Det 1 are young FR Marines maybe in a year or two.


no problem